Why this NIGHTMARE 800 passenger long-haul low-cost economy plane will never happen
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 พ.ย. 2020
- The aviation industry has one of the stranger balance sheets to explore. Unlike other industries, airlines can be incredibly flexible with their costs and somethings don't really cost much at all.
for example, the aircraft themselves are generally leased, not owned, by airlines. Even brand new aircraft that are bought by an airline from say Boeing or Airbus, are then passed onto a leasing firm in what is known as a lease-buyback. This means that airlines can have the advantage of buying a new aircraft - without actually paying for it outright.
Thus most aircraft are leased, and I've made two great videos that explain in too much detail how much they are. But generally, you can expect to get an aircraft for thousands a month.
On the opposite side of the spectrum is fuel. Airlines need fuel to operate, you can't fly without something in the tank and this is a cost that fluctuates daily and changes their bottom line significantly. Thats why we see so many airlines investing in green fuels or other cost-saving measures to keep this as low as possible.
How much do airlines actually make?
According to a report back in 2018, the average profit per customer of a typical New York to Los Angeles flight was around $20 - despite the fact that the ticket was 323 dollars on average.
Of the $323 earned per passenger
$34 is in taxes by various different authorities
$88 is for the crew involved with operating and running the flight.
Then we need to consider fuel. For this particular route back in 2018 and with the fuel price back then, this was $55 for the trip. Now you can see why an airline wants to ensure that their plane is as fuel-efficient as possible, as the fuel cost is more than double the profit per passenger.
Now its time to pay for the plane itself. If a $100 million plane lasts around 25-30 years, then it will cost $4 million per year for the airline. This flight is only one day, so $4 million per day is around 11,000 per day. If the plane carries 187 passengers and is full, then that's around $55 per passenger.
Next, we have the food onboard. if complimentary will cost around $5 per passenger (hence why so many airlines now charge for food). Then we have a smorgasbord of other costs like insurance, advertising, office supplies, commissions, and communications for boarding.
Lastly, the airline also needs to pay the airports to land and use the facilities. This cost greatly depends on the size of the plane, where they want to park it, and how long it's there. That's why we see some low-cost airlines like Ryanair and others park far away from the gate and use buses instead of a jetbridge.
Looking at the opposite end of the spectrum, we have a report from Qantas with its enormously profitable Airbus A380 flight from Sydney to Dallas. A profit of $428 million in revenue per year. That costs to around $628,000 per flight with an average return of $1,598 per passenger. For some passengers, this is more than double what they pay, $660 and a good chunk of the first class price of USD$8,030
Why is this flight so profitable? Its a combination of demand, the aircraft's low cost per seat, and lack of sizeable competition.
The Australian Bureau of Infrastructure, Transport and Regional Economics:
“Airbus A380, the largest passenger jet, costs between $26,000 and $29,000 per hour, using roughly $17,467 of fuel, approximately $40.19 to $44.82 per mile. A more detailed look at Qantas Airways flight offers a better understanding of typical costs. On a 14-hour A380-800 flight from Sydney to Los Angeles, the airline expenditures amount to $305,735; $11,414 in food and drink, $12,625 in staff pay and $37,157 in airport taxes and navigation services, and around $244,539 in fuel to fly the 484 seat plane.
Now we get to the main issue with long haul flights in the low cost market. You might have wondered why doesn't an airline pick up an older Airbus A380 and fit it with as many seats as possible, say 800, and then just operate as cheaply as possible.
Well one airline technically did do this! Norwegian back in 2018 hired an Airbus A380 to transport passengers thanks to the grounding of the Boeing 787 fleet.
The Airbus A380 costs around $150,000 to operate per trip across the Atlantic, which is an average cost of $340 per passenger with 440 seats onboard. At the time Norwegian was charging around 200-341 per passenger, resulting in a profit on their best days of only one dollar.
But what about our idea to fit as many seats onboard as possible? Instead of 440 seats, we have 800 all economy seats. At $26,000 per hour, the minimum price of tickets would need to be $32.50 per passenger per hour to break even, or for New York to London, 187.50 per ticket. This assumes that you can fill 100% of every seat, and not leave a single one empty.
While it's certainly possible for a low-cost carrier to operate a long haul a380, the profit margins are so slim that it would be financial suicide to do so.
Funny enough an EasyJet A380 wouldn’t concern me. A Ryanair A380 however .... *shudders*
Same with me
lol
Now they are fitting that 737 max with 200 seats........200!!!
28 inch legroom....imagine that on a 13 hour flight
@@AdvaitVaze *Painful*
Wouldn't ryanair use a 747-8
Simple answer : "It's cheaper to operate 4 Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 than operate single A380 for the same route"
Nobody would appreciate a 10 hour flight in a 737 or 320. That's why you never see this types flying long haul, for which they were never designed to do. Hence the need for 747s and A380s.
@@julosx well not necesarily, 747 and A380 are increasing being replaced with 787, 777, and A350. 747 and A380 are more expensive in terms of maintence and airport fees (they fall into the heaviest categories while the aforementioned ones barely don’t) and also are less fuel efficient.
@@julosx A321XLR: Allow me to introduce myself.
Note: I'm not saying it's right to have people fly in such a way, but most airlines don't care how you feel, especially in America.
Cheaper potentially but definitely far less financially risky
Yeah but a380 are for long flights and 737s and a320s are fi shorter flights a a380 isn’t going to go on a 2 hour flight and a 737 or a320 isn’t going to go on a 8 hour flight
800 passenger on an A380
Ryanair: only 800? let´s say 1000. on a premium configuration
RIP fuel efficiency
Rip combustível Ryanair e muito má já fiz um voo até Londres tive 4horas a mais a espera do voo e depois eles foram tao mal educados .
@@wg_dudu Welcome to los pollos hermanos
@@akunlama89 wrong language lol
P r e m i u m
I used to work for a billionaire (~25 billion net worth) and in his earlier days as a billionaire, he would fly to certain international hubs in his Challenger 350 to then switch to a commercial flight JUST to save time. He then bought a g650 and an absolutely ridiculously maxed out 777 so he wouldn't have to - But to the point, yes - billionaires are obsessed with saving time.
Oh boy my friend, you lost me when you said 4:21 "a profit of $428M in revenue per year"...
exactly, some many errors...I was like whaaa??? some of these numbers make so sence and they never clarify.
First he talks about how most airlines lease planes for “thousands a month” but, in his profit calculation he uses ownership of the plane.
Exactly
so many glaring errors and unanswered questions.
Maybe the Price they are being leased at is unknown?
Heeeeey! We flight attendants do more than just asking PAX to put their tray tables up! 😡😡😡
you forgot to calculate the cargo each airplane carries on its way to its destination, I mean half the airplane is cargo.
It also seems like he only accounted for passenger flights from NYC - LA making a single trip per day which would be highly unusual
It's just an example of your price for your seat........ open your eyes and ears fella, FFS!!
Even because they are being retired . Would be an "serious emotional event" a 800 people low cost flight.
Yep
I would be very very depressed and nothing will get rid of it
@@zeferinoresendiz1698 tbh the a380 still has a chance with Singapore & Emerates
Let see the routes. DC London. Miami Paris London. Madrid Berlin to NY route
Don't forget, all air carriers also engage in light cargo transport if they are within weight limits. Cargo is almost pure profit and even mail carrying is lucrative as added income with passenger flights being so competitive.
What they should be launching is the £1 flight to New York (With £449.99 booking fee)
"...Nick here, from the channel you are watching." Brilliant!
3:33 "charge for fuel onboard"
to bee seen soon TBH
Therapyst : Easy Jet A380 is not real,it can't hurt you
The thumbnail : *Easy Jet A380
Fantastic video ✈️
Thank you for creating and publishing such an interseting and professional content! I am looking forward to another video.
I'm impressed on how quick you produce videos!
I’m impressed how fast you watch them jovi! See you on the next stream
I will be there on time!
is this brother on this channel a top og? i came across this vid already liking it
@@abutmamun4322 I had been here when F&E had 10K subs
Edit: yeah I know right! the videos are stunning!
@@redballthing same
Reading in the UK news on Saturday, I think, Easy Jet reported their first financial loss this year. Food for thought.
Nice job!
You forgot to mention Pratt & Whitney, who make airplane engines. They are a pretty large engine company.
Tickets are way more expensive in the USA than Europe. I flew Stansted to Biarritz return for £10 once, and Manchester to Oslo for £40 return. Luton to posnan was £35 etc.
Who makes the money there? I was surprised that pilots at the smaller airlines in the US earn even less than at Ryanair etc, where they are already criminally underpaid imo.
I love this channel 🤩
Ah yesss... The islands of Bali, Thailand, Vietnam, and China
I know what you mean. The only "island" in that line-up was Bali. Oh well, I doubt I could make videos like this person does.
Masterpiece.
think there have been very successful long haul low cost carriers already. Canada 3000 for example. It died because of SEP 11, but was making good money apparently before then. There's also Air Transat in Canada (still operating) & Cebu Pacific(Philippines)
So... the plane only makes one flight per day?
Generally not on domestic flights, the crew would be limited to a different shorter leg that day by law, though on more common domestic length routes 3-4 legs in a day is not unheard of. Though so much is left out on where those numbers are calculated from it is hard to guess how much that changes them.
costs, you forgot the maintanance costs
The cost to replace the interior is $50+ million.... In competitive reality, the life of the interior is 5-10 years (5 in technology, 10 for condition)
American did a study and said it costs $14,000.00 per pound annually. So 1 magazine with its protective binder cost 14 grand a year for our convenience....No more magazines. That is some perspective
4:20
That flight lands in Dallas at around 1:00PM CDT on Saturday. Sometimes me and my mother will drive to KDFW to see it land, and let me tell you, pre-pandemic, it drew quite a crowd.
Easy jet+Airbus A380 =interesting bank crack
lol
Don't planes make more than one trip a day and don't they have freight on passenger planes and what about your bag fees don't give me that they only make $20 off of a seat.
I like your video
a Ryanair a380 is the stuff of nightmares
Revenue is not the same.e as profit. Profit is what is left after you subtract your costs from your revenue.
The thumbnail Lmaooo 🤣🤣🤣
anyone else like when he says 'airline'.. the way he says it. lol
No airline on Earth will do a 800 seat A380.
1) Difficulty in filling the plane, every empty seat loses money
2) Low cargo capacity for it size. When fully loaded hold 20% to 30% less cargo than comparable wide body jets.
3) Logistics of handling 800 passengers is not possible at smaller airports
4) A380 fuel efficiency / maintenance down times are bad due to its 4 engines
So it seemed the 3 main culprits boosting costs in aviatian are Fuel prices, taxes, and aviation services. Concidering fuel costs: My question is why do the Airliners not establish a consortium creating a global fund that will enable them to establish their own crude oil mining and own crude oil refineries and produce jet fuel much cheaper as what they can buy it from the lucrative Arab oil companies. The other by products will help them to achieve this goal. I am sure only one sizable refinery will supply the whole aviation market with enough jet fuel.
I ask why not just establish your own full line. Buy storage tanks around the nation or global buy when low fill up the tanks and fuel your own jets with cheap fuel.
Probably because that would require them to buy up a bunch of oil refineries and even if they could afford to, they would be getting into a business they know nothing about and that is very risky and can easily backfire and make things worse instead of better.
Delta actually tried this. It didn't go as well as they hoped.
@@KyurekiHana really?
@@joeyknight8272 yep, see Simple Flying's video on it: th-cam.com/video/kPdbVlCj6XI/w-d-xo.html
One of LCC(Running B738 only) in South Korea has announced to run A330 next year. Do you think it can be a game changer or poor decision?
what about the cost of maintenance? also what about the revenue for cargo?
Never see an A380 carrying 213, 220, 235, 242, 259, 266, 275, 289, and 297 passengers even the seat configuration is 516
Can you talk about airport fees and examples.. like the parking fee and landing fee etc
1:40 it is sad that we invest in green fuels only for savings
Guess I won't be flying those 747s soon :(
747 passenger snipes57 brothharrr Wesley,., brother is og. peace pepolz
Lufthansa flies (some of) its 747-830 fleet these days.
2:36 holy sht those two looking good
2:36 Flying Cuteness !!
Not lease buy-back. Lease-back.
Lease buy-back is when you buy back the car that you had been leasing. Totally different to this situation.
I never paid so cheap for that Qantas SYD to DFW flight. This would have been shortly after they switched the route from the 747 to A380, though, and not 2018.
When you say twin engine jets "can't go over the south pole" do you mean their range is inadequate or ETOPS rules prevent them?
bro, i want to ask questions but i guess im too dumb, but id like your questions if it means i can better understanding,., thanx to all u nice people for knowing what u knw, more than me, im just watch vidoe thanks for contents all
Flat earth, the poles don't exist
@@personalfunfest that's what I wanted to say😔
I normally really like these videos, but this one left me with a lot of unanswered questions, and I'm feeling quite unsatisfied by it.
How can I satisfy you?
@@FoundAndExplained I don't really feel like the main question has been answered in the video. Why doesn't an 800 passenger plane make a profit?
That's why I clicked the video, I was actually curious about the title, but I find myself having finished the video still not knowing the answer!
Very frustrating.
I'm sorry I really don't like giving negative feedback.
Regarding your comment about flying from Buenos Aires to Perth via the South Pole, and not being able to do it using a twin jet aircraft. Quantas recently flew nonstop from Perth to London using an Airbus a350. Surely that's longer than the trans polar route?
You forgot the CEO compensation.
It's amazing how uneasy the idea of flying over Antarctica makes me, even though I know it's irrational.
It’s so empty. I’ve done it and when you look at flight radar there is only one plane down thete
It is not irrational. Look up Air New Zealand Flight 901.
The suffering would be short.
I’m just as uneasy flying over Africa or the open ocean. Anywhere one is confronted with a black void is disarming.
You never talked about the real reasons airliners don’t fly over Antarctica. Besides the navigational problem caused by flying too close to the magnetic South Pole, the other issue is the lack of alternate airports on such a route. Until commercial airliners are certified to operate off of ice pack runways, there aren’t any “suitable airports” on the whole of the continent! The biggest problem is that if any airplane suffered a cabin pressure problem that required to descend to 10,000 feet, the airplane simply can’t carry enough fuel to cruise at such a low altitude. The point of no return point, required for ETOPS flight operations makes this impossible with today’s airplanes.
Run my own airline? Sounds like the movie Soul Plane.
I saw a video were they where planning a A-380 plus version that could fit 900 economy class seats but now all are being retired...
Yes that was my video last week :) thanks for watching :)
but why? bring em outa retirement lets get amazon on it lol, bezoursszs cud c the profit in delivering pepols with 40kg luggage if we bring packed lunch and own mask n saniters plus wipes lov wipes 21st century book of Eli man smashesd it with fresh wipe
Retired ? Ask that to Emirates ! They even managed to buy two brand new ones in 2020 !
im from the uk and tend to do diy holidays. in the last few years my return flights have been ... crete £45. lanzarote £50. tenerife £60. turkey £110. but then other times they can be hundreds each... but in general they are loads cheaper than flights for americans to book.
$88 for crew.. lol no wonder us mechanics at these airlines are getting screwed. We're treated as so expendable until it's time for the plane to return to service.
One major problem with your calcualtions....no allowance for cargo carried?????
Cargo would be a bonus like charging more for passenger bags or say choosing your seat. It’s not a fundamental part of a passenger carriers body (well 2020 is a different story). You need more fuel for cargo too
Also assumed for the plane costs, plane flies once a day from NY to LA. Is this correct? They can fly to LA and return in a day halving plane costs
but if cargo gets added shudnt it b evn more better cheaper or giv discounted extra allowance for extra kg better priced for inflight customer on the flight ticket holder., imagine the biznizz can b made mans lugg his wood burning fire place and cast iron skillet to next port
What about aircraft maintenance? That wasn't accounted for.
Michael O'Leary: I have an idea...
What is a leasing firm?
It’s called “sell and lease back”, not “buy and lease back”
Airlines aren't telling the truth.
Planes carry cargo for mail services and private cargo at a cost. Also government do support airlines in some countries. They also collect the taxes if they claim a loss.
It would be cool to see a LLC operate an a380 though..
In ryanair literally might just make people stand up if the plane is full
Could a 747 be converted to a tri jet? Off topic, why couldn't the USAF fit B-52s with four giant modern civilian engines instead of the old 8 engines?
So basically I am living in Malta and I love to go to Rome. On a typical flight it only takes 1.10 minutes to arrive. Now these low cost carriers provide food and drink at a cost. This is actually adding extra weight and let’s be honest, if the flight is only 1 hour, why waste money on rubbish coffee and food., oh and it ain’t cheap also.
I fly on Qantas and I’ve been on one there a380’s but Qantas dose not fly them anymore :(
I know not until passenger numbers pick up again after the pandemic is over
Oh thanks
People are getting fed up with Qantas getting worse and worse. Mandatory vaccination to fly will lose them many more customers.
I heard they were refurbishing the interior of their 380 fleet these days.
I mean how about tokio-hongkong? Or something like that
$32.5/pax/hour? Make it $40 and put that 800 economy seat a380 for hajj or umrah flight such as jakarta-jedda, kuala lumpur-jedda, delhi-jedda, etc. that flight in all economy will always be full.
Why can’t the 777 or 787 fly from Australia to a South America. They both have the range especially the 77x and the long range 787
I don't need to worry as I always fly wizzair and Ryanair :)
But... One of them might not be a budget around anymore
Wizz air is really good!
Do I hear Ryanair?!
or do you mean crash landing airways
@@redballthing Well the landings are hard but I never died
@@casparfriedrich3119 I know but their landing are still harsh XD
Indigo can purchase second hand upgraded full economy confriguration A380 with 850 passengers by breaking the railway passengers capacity.
Let's have Loickheed Martin jump in to the trijet business. LM-1011J Super Tristar, anyone?
If they used the original Tri-star models, they could be the oues filling the "middle of the market" 220-270-seat space.
You could probably fit 950 passengers on a a380 in 3-5-3 and terrible legroom like low-cost carriers normally have.
$20 profit on $323 is really not bad a rate of return.
The A380 came out at the wrong time anyway. If it appeared right around the same time as the 747 it would have worked out but the market for 4-jets just isn’t there when you can get similar performance from a 777
Revenue and Profit are totally different things. Which one is it? 4:26... Don't worry, the candidates on The Apprentice don't know the difference either!
Confused screaming*
Don’t worry it can’t hurt you
lol yup im confued always, its taking long time to unblock my brainfreeze icecold glass of water,,, my teeth is got pins n needles bwain thowwing but im still dumb,,, ooops i ment numb as well as ma dumbness
If any airline started offering $250 flights London to New York in an all economy a380 I'd sign up for that tomorrow.
That would be 1 way. So £500 return. That's not actually that cheap.
@@astindaley that's still cheaper than I paid to fly return to Japan
Hold it there. A bunch of airlines had this plane, i was gonna say that hes hating but maybe this is his opinion
Three storey plane with 6 engines is the future plane. It would be the most profitable for all & safest because of the 6 engine installment.
Airports can't currently handle such aircraft
Sound levels fluctuate a lot on this video, suddenely mid sentence the narration track goes loud and back again!
When does your new video on why the use of the A380 is dropping, and apparently not just because of Covid?
Where did you get all these figures from? $88 crew and staff costs from JFK to LAX? Assuming there is 5 crew on board, for a 6 hour flight that would be less than $3 an hour, and that's not even including ground staff etc. Unless I have my numbers wrong? And what about revenue from cargo and sales from food and drink?
Its business suicide for both the airline and their insurance carrier if one crashes or goes out of service. Then factor in when you take a flight these days once you pass TSA security your pretty much an airport hostage for sells. Most people have no Ideal how much an airport vendor franchise costs annually. Loading an airplane that size will consume even more time as an airport hostage that passengers will not want to be. Sure the plan may hold up short term but as a long term business venture its pure suicide. Business wise one of the newer blimps being designed with jet engines would be far more practical for 800 passengers weight and fuel load and far safer than something that doesn't really fly, but is rather pushed through the air with force..
what about a A380 2000 passenger "Cattle Cart" Loadout? 100$ Transatlantic XD
I've seen videos of people who think jet fuel is fake!
People on here saying "Why isn't he talking about the money they make on the cargo....blah blah blah?" drive me nuts. The video is talking about "THE COST PRICE OF YOUR SEAT AND HOW IT BREAKS DOWN". Bloody hell, people are so stupid... why don't they open their eyes and ears????🤬🤬
10:30 flat earthers..............
Haha true
I want to start an airline
thing is, if 187$ would be the break even, why not charge say 250 or 300? That's still cheaper than anything else, no?
why tri-jet? and whats the significance, pros cons if it a direct route over antarica pert-S.A shortest 2points straight, what is wrong with route, if root good or needs additions, what r they? and whats stopping why not more compition but combined techology and services flexi co-op? is that unlikely a dream of better air well priced travel just look out window still on runway no flight? sorry apologies, fr abrupt bot rude error404 peace, ty fr vids btw
I fear no man but that thing
Ryan air A380
It scares me
Don't airlines use futures to hedge against rising fuel prices?
I hope scoot will be in a380
what is the richest airline
Why would they strip an airplane back and the paint it exactly the same? No wonder shit costs a fortune with such waste
Anybody done the "free real estate" meme yet?
The starting 737 ready to crash in another 737 but one takes a turn