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That woman is the height of stupidity 😂

Do people not think anymore

This you r debate is very dull

18:00 I disagree with Mark, you want to tell me someone who prays to say a cow does not know good from bad because they don't know God? We as humans know meaning, good from bad with or without God.

9:25 this lady is so lame...sorry I dont mean to disrespect her. I think she fears hell more than she fears to think 😢

36:41 this lady is a pastor or something? Good god! She is too shallow...for lack of better word.😔

Based on our personal experiences, God exist, the problem is confining God to the bible which was clearly written by man and doctored by past civilizations to control people.

They can’t comprehend an internal universe but can comprehend an imaginary internal being

Theist think evolution has a plan or shld i say a an end goal which it doesn’t 😂 we will continue to evolve until humans stop existing

The reason i don’t inslave my fellow human being is because i myself wldn’t want to be a slave not because of a god. There is this philosophical method of creating a just system called The veil of ignorance. In it you are told to create a society and give it all the attributes you want without knowing where or what position you yourself will be in in that society. This way you will be comfortable being anywhere you are placed in said society you created. Using this thought experiment a society can be just without a god meaning morality isn’t exclusive to there being a god. So the idea that without god there is no value is just nonsense. What are we exactly taking from Christianity do you think before the missionaries killed millions who didn’t convert there was no morality in Africa and we were all barbarians killing and torturing each other, careful that’s exactly the justification they had for slavery my brother. We are delivering them to the lord (plantation). The meaning you make for yourself is meaningless to others congratulations Einstein you figured out the world this is why we examine thing further just like the claim of your imaginary friend god.

The word god exists there for god exists 😂😂😂😂 a very weak argument. Spiderman, dracula, ironman …… all these are worlds too. Also that pastor used his ignorance of radio waves to make an argument for god, that answer was just a google typing away. I doubt i can text god. The argument that some of the characters in the bible actually existed is not good either, there are plenty of fictional stories based on real people for example ( Abraham Lincoln Vampire hunter) he existed but am sure he was hunting no vampires. The reason we know someone has a headache is because we have also had one at some point in life. And that to we can’t know for sure which is why people use it to skip work 😂. Guy on the right has good word salad 🥗 bravo my brother very good at redirecting attention, it doesn’t matter that some of the people who ended slavery were christians you cleaning up your own mess is not something to be praised as noble. For 400 years of slavery there was no single christian then 🥗 saaallllaaaadddddd am telling you, if there is one way to interpret what is in the bible then explain the thousands of christian sub religions 😂 in only my area there is almost 20 Morris is very patient.

this was a good one @secularkenyan 👏👏

Secular Kenyan is continually changing positions from hard-core atheism to agnosticism depending on the circumstance. He says his default position is agnosticism (we don't know) but in the first section he stated unequivocally that he's sure the Abrahamic God doesn't exist. Not sure why Mark didn't pick this obvious inconsistency

My brother Mark did well here. Well done

That guy in a blue shirt just goes to show what Christian Apologetics is all about....utter B.S. Some òf his arguments are just nonsensical and deceitful.

How old is this video, because the arguments that the theists have are silly and outdated.

Of course not. And you can’t demonstrate one does.

The guy in blue shirt needed to be fact-checked. He said so many incorrect things.

The question that was answered that God always existed we have to follow up with how do you know that God always existed outside of space and time how do you know that

You were lucky to host a very mild agnostic guy,

How is a human sacrifice morally upright? There is no morality in religion

This discussion having been sponsored by church, i would say they have done a good job. ... There are many assumptions being made,

I really tried to seek him , i didn't find him I begged him to help me , he didn't, asked him to send someone who knows him to help me know him to an extent that i could see him, nothing.. Slowly I lost faith and now i don't believe a thing. To me word Faith sounds like Magician's magic words

It takes courage to so this. You did well @secularkenyan👏🏾👏🏾. One day our brothers will wake up

"Quantum is immaterial" not true, sub-atomic and quantum elements are the smallest units of matter. Quantum flactuations are very much material.

If you could prove the existence of hod you’d win 986000$ and a Nobel Prize. But all these believers claim there is undeniable proof but nobody has ever brought it toward. That should tell you all you need to know

As a 78 year old white man in Texas, who often watches channels about African culture, because I do believe much of the world's future turns on how Africa turns, I am glad to see this kind of discussion. Unlike Nigeria, that claims to be progressive in many ways, but yet allowed the sentencing of Mr. Mubarak Bala to 24 years in prison for just posting on Facebook about Islam, such a discussion as this one is a pleasant shift. Yet in Kenya the Christians have sway, and from what I see, have firm control over the political and legal landscape, and I cite in particular the harsh treatment and laws about LGBTQ people. I will digress for a moment to state that these African countries that are suppressing homosexuality and the Rainbow spectrum, do so at the denigration and demise of their entire culture and society. Europeans did not bring "gayness" to Africa, "we" brought the false religion of christianity and its notion of sin from the Dark Ages. Christianity as you practice it (around the world) was invented by Paul, and has literally little to nothing to do with the life of Yeshua the Jew. I will direct you to the work of James Tabor, a retired professor and scholar of Christian history (see him on TH-cam and others). Having said that, I will also say that there are ample resources about "gayness" in Africa on the web if one is truly motivated to search. For instance, the teacher Malidoma Some, from the Dagara tribe, talks about gay people being the "gate keepers" the spirit world and how they facilitate initiation rites. When the priests came to Africa they tried to beat all the Africaness out of the people, and plug in their values in order to control people. That mindset still persist today and it is the greatest cause of problems on the Continent as I see it. I also say the same about Islam, to wit, the mentality of northern NIgeria and other Islamic areas of Africa. Islam brought slavery from the Arabian world, and it still goes on today as you know! As for there being or not being "God," let me to say that if you look into science, almost no Western scientist believes in "God." Furthermore, in the West Christians are leaving the church by the droves, except the fanatics who are so-called "evangelicals," who like fanatical Muslims, misinterpret the teachings of the gurus they claim, to justify all their personal grievances. If you are serious about understanding the "is there a God" question, or have the right mind to want to know how to justify your God's "being," then you must look to science, especially quantum physics. You must know the universe if infinite and the universe itself is expanding so fast that the light from many stars never will reach our eyes because of the rate of expansion. You also should know that many physicists believe there are multiple universe, not just our one, perhaps, even an infinite number of universes. I challenge you to try to find the "self" that you feel you are. You cannot. The issue of human consciousness is one of the "hard questions" of science. It has been proposed, and I agree, that consciousness is pervasive throughout the universe, and our own individual consciousness is merely an operative of that. I believe yes, there is a universal consciousness, but I do not call it god. Why would I want to follow such a cruel "god" that allows to much suffering. As Buddha taught, this world is nothing but suffering. Joy and Pain, and it all exist within our mind. All is mind. Change your mind and change your world. You do not need a man-made God to do that, it's all within us. One cannot find truth by sitting in the forest. one must get outside the forest and see that there are many, many forests, and each has its own mysteries.

CHURCHES DONT WORK WORLD IS CONTROLLED BY KNOWING WHO MADE YOU THE LORD AND CONNECT TO HIM BY DOING THIS HE WILL BRING FOOD FOR ALL WHO HUNGER BRING RAIN TO YOUR FARMS START BY SEEDS UNTIL YOUR COUNTRY IS RECOVERED. YOUR GOVERNMENTS WILL OPERATE GIVE AFRICA HOUSING TO THE BLACK PEOPLE. BRING BUSINESS JOBS INTO YOUR CITIES AND VILLAGES. YOU HAVE TO KNOW THE LORD DELIBERATELY REMOVED THE GOOD LIVING BECAUSE YOU DONT KNOW HIM. FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS YOU CONNECT TO HIM WILL TAKE CARE OF HIS PEOPLE HE MADE THE BLACKS. THE LORD SAT NEXT TO GOD ETERNITY WORKING TO MAKE THE PLANETS. GOD TOOK ONE SIDE AND LORD TOOK THE OTHER UNTIL PLANET MADE. GOD CREATED FOR THE PEOPLE PROVIDED AND THE LORD DID THE SAME WITHOUT KNOWING HIM . HEARING FROM PEOPLE ONE NAME GOD BUT NOT THE LORD NEXT TO GOD. SO LORD FELL OUT OF HEAVEN TO MAKE IS OWN MARK ANGERED UNKNOWN DESERTED AS MANY BLACK PEOPLE HE DID FOR THAT REASON. WHAT LORD MADE HIMSELF HE MADE THE BLACK PEOPLE FOR REVENGE FOOD WILL COME THROUGH THIS RELIGION BLACK PEOPLES LIVES WAS HARSH BECAUSE U DIDNT KNOW WHO MADE YOU YOUR MAKER HE IS THE LORD THE SAINT. HIS HOME IS IN SYNAGOGUES ON SATURDAY PRAY TO HIM AND HE WILL RELEASE THE NEGATIVES REPAIR THE GOVERNMENTS IN AFRICA AND ALL BLACK NEIGHBORHOODS START BUILDING YOUR LIVES AS U WANT. JEWISH ENTIRE GOSPEL WORKS AS ALL PROPHETS JEWISH FLEET OF PROPHETS SENT THE FIRST RELIGION. RELIGION WORKS HAS TO BE IN ORDER NOT MESSY MANY RELIGIONS GOING IN ALL DIRECTIONS EXCEPT TO THE LORD WAITING TO BE CONNECTED TO YOU JEWISH BIBLE SILVER CROSS CHRIST THE LORD WILL BRING THE RAIN. WHILE BUILDING NEW ECONOMY START WITH SEEDS FARMING HIS PEOPLE DID NOT KNOW HIM AND PRAYED DIRECTLY FOLLOW INSTRUCTION HE WILL MAKE AFRICA PROSPEROUS FULLFILL AFRICA DEMANDS IN LIVING YOU WANT POPE TOOK OVER SYNAGOGUES MADE THEM INTO CHURCHES DONT WORK RIGHT PRAYERS AS I WROTE. I BUILT ISRAEL I AM ON FACEBOOK DON SKYLAR

Excellent conversation! This question of proof of God has lots of answers since 25 centuries. Funny proofs of God like the argument of the Oxford dictionnary, or the proof with the banana (yu can explore those kind of funny false proofs in the last book of Paul-Loup Sulitzer ENTRETIENS SPIRITUELS). The classical arguments for God: Ontological argument from Anselm de Canterbury, or the five ways of Thomas Aquinas. But there are other proofs like the constatation that energy in space should have finish since a long time if it has begin without a God. Etc... (sorry for my english, I'm french). Others arguments, with Gilbert Cesbron, enven Gandhi tried to confront this question... he gives a kind of proof

Mosala malamu/ good job

opposing biblical facts is also opposing historical facts,here am not talking about religion but historical evidence, even putting aside the bible, in the history books, pagan rome(catholic church),persecuted the early church as an evidence of an ongoing spiritual war between two spiritual kingdoms, the papacy murdered more than 100 million beleivers, the colloseums where present day sports and stadia get their design inspiration from is where the christians used to be put, and wild animals such as lions and tigers were released to them,while the crowds cheered..these even built the faith of more believers,the more they got killed the more they became, so the enemy so that direct murder was not working so they changed the tactics,more of a spiritual weakening and annihilation rather than a physical one

Bible is a primitive documentary

This debate was a cliffhanger. The concept of trinity is one tenet that informed my decision to ditch christianity and virtually all religions. It’s so illogical that the proponents of the idea appears to be clutching at straws in an attempt to sound knowledgeable. They do lots of tap dancing but ends nowhere. The mere fact that one is called “father” and the other “son” is a clear indication that there’s a hierarchical relationship between the two. Trinitarians in essence are polytheists. The concoction of trinity doctrine is a clever way to get away from polytheism. A cursory look at Pauline letters affirms that Jesus was a created being, superior to any other creature, but not identical to the father. Per the bible, Jesus is divine. But divinity is not the same thing as being god. So Christians, choose to be polytheists or acknowledge unitarianism-no middle ground.

Just found you through Skeptic Haven. Habari?

Christians pick and choose from the Bible. When God gives clear instructions on how to handle slaves, Christians argue it was about the culture of the day. So does God change with culture?

You wiped the floor with the pastor.

The notion that certain biblical passages were only meant for particular churches/time is ridiculous. They selectively choose what passages to restrict geographically and temporally. I never hear tithes confined to the Israel .

Ask the coat guy who wrote the Bible....I live in the west and I know how this works....

But the preachers use verses

The guy @29:00 mins is incredibly ignorant. We do NOT know why god exists. The HONEST answer is we don’t know. With regard to the atom we now know better. There is the parable of the Mustard seeds in the Bible. We KNOW that is false. The difference between science and the Bible is science is happy to admit it was wrong. The Bible continues to say it’s right when patently wrong. The Gospels are different and whilst they can’t all be right they can all be wrong. We can explain how the mobile phone explanation works. It’s radiation and we can demonstrate it. It’s similar to how a loud speaker and radio works. We can demonstrate the chain of events.

@25:13, this guy doesn't have a clue. Science doesn't just mean Chemistry, Biology and Physics. Science is a rigorous, systematic endeavor that builds and organizes knowledge in the form of testable explanations and predictions about the world

@SecularKenyan, ask Matt Dillahunty to appear on your show debating these people.

"I am not even an atheist so much as an antitheist; I not only maintain that all religions are versions of the same untruth, but I hold that the influence of churches and the effect of religious belief, is positively harmful. Reviewing the false claims of religion I do not wish, as some sentimental materialists affect to wish, that they were true. I do not envy believers their faith. I am relieved to think that the whole story is a sinister fairy tale; life would be miserable if what the faithful affirmed was actually true.... There may be people who wish to live their lives under cradle-to-grave divine supervision, a permanent surveillance and monitoring. But I cannot imagine anything more horrible or grotesque." Christopher Hitchens

🔥🔥

nice

Good job Morris. Even when the odds in this debate were stacked against you, your arguments were convincing. The sooner africans realize the fallacy with religion the better. Before colonization, missionaries and explorers were among the first people to introduce religion in the African society. If indeed God existed then why did he allow Africans to be colonized and subjected to torture by the same people who introduced religion? From a morality perspective religion falls flat. From a logical argument, if indeed god exists this debate would be pointless since there is proof of his existence. If we keep referring to religious texts as proof,it is not definitive.This is because these texts were written by humans and as such they have certain biases towards what they trying to pass across, it stands to reason that most of the books of the bible were written by anonymous people over thousands of years ago and living in a different society. Their perspectives are very different from now given what we know now. Therefore for god to exist he has to prove his existence to all and sundry and not through intermediaries because that defeats the purpose.

Mark is dismantling his own premise. The lady was a waste of time 😂!

I wish the debate had only been between Morris and Mark - the others were not serious. It's unfortunate that Morris did not get a chance to respond in-depth to his argument towards the end (around 45:00 area) - there are so many hidden assumptions in it. As a whole it seems like he thinks you can learn about the universe through philosophy which makes no sense - we live in a physical universe, not a philosophical one so you'll never learn anything about physical reality by sitting in a room and philosophizing - it is useful to some extent but if you take it too far you end up building castles in the air. Even just the first premise of his cosmological argument has so many issues: "Everything that begins to exist has a cause". 1. First of all how do you know this? Have you ever seen anything materially come into existence? No you have only seen things conceptually come into existence. For example if I manufacture a book, I have only manufactured it but I did not "create" it materially. I simply took existing matter and energy and manipulated it such that the end result is what we call a book. I did not actually make new matter and energy in the form of a book. There is a double meaning to the phrase "begin to exist" but he has mixed up the two. In the everyday "conceptual" sense his first premise is true, but in the context of this argument the first premise is not warranted as it uses the second "material" sense of that phrase. 2. Even if we grant that the double meaning issue is resolved somehow, we still have an issue. Later on in the argument, he brings up the distinction between material and immaterial causes and effects. But the first premise does not make this distinction so where did it come from? The first premise should really say "everything that materially begins to exist has an immaterial cause," but then it would not sound so convincing would it? In our everyday reality we see that material effects have material causes - we have never observed otherwise. 3. Another missing assumption in the first premise is that the laws of cause and effect does not depend on time. This is why he later goes on to say that the universe has a cause "sans time". But how does that make sense? How does a cause lead to an effect if there is no mechanism by which that happens? If you want to use our everyday human experience then we know that any effect is always caused via some mechanism and this takes time. Outside of the context of time, the law of causality does not need to apply. Same goes for space. So if we take all these hidden assumptions and double meanings into account, the first premise should really be something like: "Everything that materially comes into existence within time and space has a cause that is not temporally prior to the effect, or spatially related to it." It seems as though he thinks you can build an argument based on "logic" in a way that is completely detached from physics, when in reality his logic is based on his experience as a human in a physical world and makes many assumptions which may not really be true. We see this in the idea that time cannot be infinite in the past because "how could we reach the present moment". The assumption is based on our human experience of "the present moment". Who says there is some objective "present moment" that must go from start to finish? What if time is more like space in the sense that one can start from some arbitrary point and end at some other arbitrary point without having to start at some "beginning" (there is a reason physicists call it spacetime - they are part of the same thing)? For someone who is willing to talk about concepts like god being "outside of time" this is surprising. Another example is his claim that "the cause must be powerful because the universe is powerful". Says who? Within the physical universe, we have energy which is bound by specific laws (conservation of energy), so we can say that "if A uses some energy to cause B, B must have less energy than A". But this is only a physical law, not a "logical" or "philosophical" one. If you get rid of physical reality, what does "power" even mean? I want to hear his definition of power - what it means to say the universe is "powerful", since he can't be talking about physical energy right? I don't see why an immaterial mouse could not create an immaterial burj khalifa. Again he is using assumptions based on physics and claiming that it is pure "logic". I could go on and on, would be very interested to see a longer form discussion with just him and Morris. Also great comment by @kimutaironoh243 regarding misrepresentation of the Borde-Guth-Vilenkin theory.

This mzee makes baseless arguments. I understand why you couldn't have an objective discussion with him.

This pastor should be ashamed of himself.