วีดีโอ

The tweeters are not the original though I have a pair not working and wonder if I can just buy the diaphragm for them also I bought a pair that look like the original though they are to a different model anyway thinking of dropping them in the d9s . Thanks again

Capacitors for the crossover is what I meant to say

I would be glad to help out if I can. You can E-mail me at savingcerwinvega@gmail.com if you would like. Then you can send me whatever info and pictures you have.

I do work on CVs and other speakers for people all the time but I usually stick to local work. I'm not an official full time business with quick turn around times as I do this work on my own time, I still work a full time job. I do kind of pick and choose the work I do. I am currently right now working on the follow up video to my latest D-9 video where I am going to go through the process of rebuilding the D-9 crossovers. I will be showing what parts I used and where to get them along with much more information about the D-9. If you would like to discuss further about getting your crossovers refreshed you can E-mail me at savingcerwinvega@gmail.com.

The E-315 was getting close to the end of the made in USA CVs. The good thing about that model is they were still designed with high sensitivity in mind and the traditional CV style woofers the were used in all the earlier models. In my opinion the weak points of these speakers were the cabinets that were made a bit cheaper and lighter. The crossovers also used the cheapest parts available. The crossovers were pretty much the same for the E-700, E-300 and LS series CVs. I think they are still a good speaker but they could definitely use some bracing in the cabinet and better crossover components.

Have you recapped the xovers already?

No not yet

I have a pair of original tweets though the diaphragm on both are bad. And as for the mids ,I was just trying to something different.

By the way , I noticed you used a Harman kardon, I've been using a HK 990 and a Adcom 5800 on the d9s and the polk a9s

To be honest, the C5G tweeters with the smallet magnet are suitable replacements. I have yet to find a proper fitting diagram for the CS5 tweeter. I do know someone who's working on getting some manufactured, and I hope to be able to get some in the future. As for the mids, I do suggest recapping the xover before swapping mids. Very poor parts are used in the midrange signal path, and the improvement in the sound from the original mids is drastic with proper parts. Either way, it wouldn't hurt to do. If you do decide to try something else, it's important to find one that matches impedance, sensitivity, usable frequency range, and lastly, power handling. I don't know of any certain mids that do match these but I'm sure there is something out there.

Then put the great Vega woofer into the JBL and made it a decent speaker !

@alwillis4255 Well said 👏

Yes, there is a very good supplier for Cerwin-Vega! parts. Brew City Audio LLC. He sells his stuff on eBay, just do a search for his seller page Brew City Audio. If he doesn't have what you are looking for on his page, you can contact him with what you are looking for, and he will set you up. His customer support is almost unbelievable considering he his one guy operating from his home. He knows what he is doing when it comes to Cerwin-Vega speakers and knows it well. All my foams and recone kits I use on my channel come from him.

I couldn't agree more. I have had issues getting curtain values of Mills resistors in the past. Do you know a good place to order from by any chance? I have been using Dayton Audio precision audio grade resistors when I can't get Mills resistors.

@@SavingVegas When i ordered the mills reisistors for my D9's the 10 ohm ones were backordered for a month.

@alwillis4255 When I looked them up, they are listed as not available for some values, and the rest seem to be on clearance. That's on the Parts Express website.

mills available from sonicraft

@alwillis4255 Thanks!

I have a bunch of Janzen Audio resistors I just ordered not long ago that I haven't used yet as well. You are right about how much those cheap resistors can smear the signal. Originally, when working on these crossovers, I was trying to keep the project budget friendly. After hearing the results of the improvements, I want to take them to the next level. It is also worth noting that I kept the potentiometers, tweeter circuit breaker, and overall fuse protection inline. Having done that, I knew one day I would eventually be eliminating those devices after I got some good listening time on them. When I first got these D9s, they sounded so terrible that I couldn't even bear hearing them. The woofer was so distorted and lacked any kind of bass whatsoever. The reason for that is one thing I plan on taking about in the part 2 video that I am currently working on as we speak.

It's tough to say without me being able to measure them. The proper way would be to take some measurements of the speaker to see what it needs. There's is no one lowpass filter design that works for all. By that, I mean some woofers may just need a single inductor. Some may need a second order filter with inductor and capacitor, and then what values? Also, I would need to know where the midrange drivers start rolling in. Then, you could start running into phase issues when changing the filter orders and so on. It really is an educated guess and then a trial and error process to do it properly. I agree with you wanting to put a lowpass filter on the woofer. I have measured the spectral decay in a lot of CV woofers, and even though they are able to play higher frequencies better than some other brands, they still suffer from cone breakup at some point and they really should have a filter on them. This would actually be a good idea for a future video. I just need to get my hands on some AT-15 speakers, and I could design a filter for them.

If I get a measurement microphone, I should be able to get the info I need?

A calibrated microphone is one thing you will need, as well as a software program that allows you to take the impulse response from the speaker and gate out room reflections. Otherwise, you end up with a very jumbled up mess for a frequency response that would be difficult to analyze. Without being able to gate out room reflections from the measurement, it is just a room measurement. Room measurements are good for fine-tuning your system to your listening position. For analyzing a speakers frequency response for crossover design purposes, the room reflections do you no good. I use a Cliomatica acoustical measurement system that isn't all that cheap, to be honest.

That's a new one to me. I mean, it's right there by Taiwan and Japan, so maybe. Was it the tweeter or mid that you seen it on?

@@SavingVegas it was on the back of a mid

Interesting 🤔 I'll have to look into that. Thanks for sharing. Was that in a D series CV?

Read comments. I've already addressed this.

@@SavingVegas Yes, you did address it! But you are heavily mistaken. If I follow your religion, I also would cut the measurement at 14Khz, because I am old, and my hearing doesn't go up to 20K lol... That said: It doesn´t matter at all. Make better correct measurements, from zero to 20K. The Room-Resonances don´t matter at all! More than this: The room is ALWAYS part of the overall performance. And to cut out parts of the performance due to a misguided belief takes you nowhere! Do you want to measure in an anechoic chamber? Why? Do you listen to music in an anechoic chamber too? I don´t think so. That said, to design a frequency network, you need it all - including the Room influence! It - otherwise would be the same as if a car tester does his acceleration measurements without the back two wheels, because half of the year we have winter here, so the summer tires make no sense.. That's BS, don´t you think so? Once again: To define the performance, you need the whole performance WITH all the influences from the room, the cables and and and...

I don't feel the need to have to explain the benefits of gated time window measurements. Lots of info out there on using this method that is used by many people when designing and working on speakers. GR-Research has a good video on TH-cam explaining the reasons for using gated time window measurements. You should check it out. It's a good watch. I am familiar with room measurements, and they can be helpful for me when setting up my system in my room. Doesn't do much for other people because their room would be different, and the measurements would be different.

I always preferred the black woodgrain and gray D series CVs over the oak and walnut ones, so I was going for the original look.

By the way: Did the performance go the direction xou wanted? - AND, did Danny split the frequencies between the two midranges? normally, to feed two midranges with the same signal in one speaker, is an absolute no go. The chassis begin to cancel out each other, then distortions kick in, over all not good at all! I assume that it may be better to cancel one of the two midranges, that means - to cut the wires to one of them. The midrange should perform better due to this!

@@bernhardmichaelfux308 mine is a different model, with a single midrange. One thing he did do was disconnect the fuse path. He said that the fuse muddies up the sound a fair bit. I did a long list of modifications to the speakers and am very happy with the outcome

@bernhardmichaelfux308 You're more likely to run into this issue when using 2 tweeters due to higher frequencies being shorter wavelengths. The shorter the wavelengths, the more likely for them to become out of phase with each other. This can happen with midrange drivers as well, depending on how high of frequencies they are allowed to play. If you look at the combined drivers frequency response measurement I took, you can see some cancelation happening between 5kHz and 8kHz. This is because, in my opinion, the midrange drivers are allowed to play too high. One could tweak the lowpass filter for them to start rolling off at a lower frequency to avoid this. As for the MTM design of this speaker, it is very common and still used by manufacturers today. It usually has good results for left to right off axis frequency response as well as up or down. Again, as long as the midrange drivers are filtered properly and are not allowed to play to high of frequencies.

@JR-ho5qm Was this the upgrade for the D-3s he did?

@@SavingVegas no it was not. I’m in Saskatchewan Canada so I did not want to send him the complete speaker. I just sent him the crossovers. The model that I upgraded was the newer SL12. I wanted to see what the new Vegas had to offer. I changed allot on them including there looks but at least now I have brand new Vegas as well as some old lol!

I actually watched the video like minutes after it was uploaded. I am on Danny's side with like 99.9% of his views on things. Maybe one day it will be 100% of it, but I also don't buy into some things unless I experience it for myself. Not that I think he's full of crap or anything it's just that he is dealing with and has much higher-end equipment, more experience as well as knowledge than me at this point. I believe if you get that high up there and have listened to some of the best of the best and so on, yeah, it all makes sense that it would make a difference. The problem for me is that I'm not there yet, but I am slowly making my way. As I slowly build my business, I have goals of reaching that point, but I believe that there is a need for that middle ground from the garbage that's in some speakers to the very costly parts that are just out of reach for some people. I'm trying to build xovers with the best bang for your buck in mind but still getting a drastic improvement. At least that's where I'm at now. As for having my D9s set upside-down, I don't think my OCD would handle that lol. I understand the benefits of what you're saying, but at the same time, these speakers are in basically a big square box. Once you factor in all the reflections from untreated walls in my big echo chamber. I'm not sure if there would be enough benefit for me to get over my upside-down speakers lol.

Expencive tho, he wanted 800$ for the upgrade on infinity sm150.

@@SavingVegas I would also suggest that you try and get them at ear level. Our ears are extremely sensitive to the first wave front and even in a resonant room the first wave matters a lot in therms on perceived sound quality. Ear level matters as the phase issues between drivers are minimised - especially with spaced dual mids as these. You should test it out in the room and hear for you self.

Take an idea from the klipsch heresy design, adding a 1 inch piece of cut wood under the front of the speakers stand tilted the speakers to optimal angle to my seated position. My D9's sit on a carpeted floor so the gap created does not show. Tilting made a big difference (improvement) in the sound clarity.

@Error2username Yeah, that to me is out of reach for some people. Not a lot of people want to spend that much. On average, the upgrades I do run me $150 to $300 CAN total for both xovers and still a very noticeable improvement.

I use what's called a gated time window measurement. It gives me the ability to take only the initial response from the speaker and gate out the reflections from the walls and floor in my shop. It is only accurate down to 200Hz give or take. Lower frequency waves are very long and there is no way to measure them without having room reflections interfere. The only way to measure lower frequencies is to measure the speaker in an anechoic chamber.

@@SavingVegas or outside, away from all reflective surfaces.

You would have to have the speaker up off the ground by a lot and be a long way away from the speaker with the microphone. To measure, let's say a 40Hz wavelength you need to know how far away you need to be from the speaker. So you divide 40 by 1130. 1130÷40=28.25 so your microphone would have to be 28 feet from the speaker. Then, take into account how high you would have to be off the ground to be able to get just the initial impulse response with no reflections. All that work and messing around for very little. I can't change the bass response of a speaker by messing with the crossover. We'll I can but only where the woofer rolls off, which for most speakers would be over 200Hz. So it would be pretty much a waste of time the way I see it.

I think it has more to do with just the environment itself, like humidity and such. My D5s came from the original owner, who bought them new in 1985. He had packaged them up in the original boxes in 1990. The first time they came out of the box was in 2022, and the foams were rotted.

@@SavingVegas Ok thanks for the reply my friend. Great job saving vegas, old and newer(if that's a word😄).

Damn, you comment TOO much bro lol.

Thats why I speed-up these long winded videos, get past the BLAH BLAH BLAH....