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I started listening to this on a podcast and quickly realized I needed to watch it on TH-cam so I could see the photos y’all (seriously, no, I don’t talk like this, but….Houston) were talking about. Wish I could’ve been there to see this live but, alas, Japan was calling to me, so I am enjoying this from my hotel room in Kyoto after a delicious bowl of Ramen and a Japanese beer. As usual, I would like to type more, but I’ve been whiskey tasting, and the whiskey is now kicking in. Suntory Royal 15 year is top notch. Cheers!

I love these two!

There’s no such thing as bad weather, just soft people.

The walks down memory lane are very cool. Thanks for sharing your memories.

So grateful to Kara for sharing her sadness about her running at this point. Your vulnerability really hit home for me as I'm facing an old injury flare-up just in time for my Marathon taper. You helped my tears flow a bit and while I doubt you will read this, I still wanted to say thank you 😊

Uta Pippig Boston, 1996. My poop hero!❤

Super pumped for this one. When people ask me who my favorite runners/inspirations are I just say the 2012 US Olympic team. Never a more iconic bunch than Des, Kara Shalane, Meb and Ryan hall

Pod on the road? Minnesota please! Kara, you know you want to. We could re-unite the Minnesota Avengers: Kara, Carrie, and Dakota.

Thanks for suggesting Severance. Wife and I are now caught up.

Congratulations on 3 years!

I would love for there to be some labor awareness here also - it's interesting to hear words like "appreciation" in these situations. This "reads" like anti-labor. Is it "just business" always? The reason we have labor laws is because businesses have power over workers and they do what they can to squeeze every ounce of "surplus" out of them. Your business, as far as I can tell, is very unstable and unpredictable - primarily because athletes "break" and are then "used up" and tossed aside.

my biggest pet peeve. Don't give any comment on the weather! Give Colin, From Accounts a watch. It's Australian humor, so very good.

at risk of getting into hot water again, I'd love to hear your thoughts about Shelby's return to racing this year and personally open to all opinions as I know this is a complicated situation which is exactly why I'd like to hear from people like you two abou tit

You guys navigate the brand concept so well. Each of you have become solo brands, a co-op brand, and also media and tv commentators. You rock. And I love Kara’s run pedigree and Des’s ongoing impressive results. Love you guys.

I recommend the movie Nightbitch starring Amy Adams. There were a lot of hardcore truths about becoming a new mother.

Very interesting discussion on brand contracts! Here are my two cents: it's just business-it always has been. In my NIKE blog post (where I discussed Kara’s book), my main point was that NIKE isn’t a sports brand-it’s a marketing brand. They’ll do whatever it takes to market their products and boost revenue. Also, the model of marketing products through celebrity athlete sponsorships was pioneered by NIKE too, which I also touched on in my article. That said, I’ve ditched NIKE and now exclusively run in Brooks shoes. Are Brooks the only shoes on the market? Of course not. But I chose Brooks because of Des Linden. After reading her book when it came out, I bought a pair of Brooks Ghosts and I liked them. When I decided to ditch NIKE after reading Kara’s book, I thought: BROOKS is my brand now! But was it because they’re the best? They work for me, but the best shoe or brand does not exist, it depends. But I chose Brooks because of Des. Everything she stands for-her authenticity, how she won Boston, her “tell-it-like-it-is” attitude-resonates with me. That connection with Des is what led me to Brooks. And Brooks knows this, otherwise she would not continue to enjoy their sponsorship. It’s the same reason Patagonia is my go-to clothing brand, or why I drive a Subaru and shop at REI. At the end of the day, it’s all marketing, but it’s marketing that aligns with my values. Those are my two cents! 🙂 Here's the link to my NIKE post if someone is interested: francescborrull.wordpress.com/2024/04/08/in-the-footsteps-of-nike-navigating-marketing-brilliance-and-corporate-responsibility/ Oh, by the way, I also loved Shrinking!!!

As mafia capos always said, "Nothing personal; it's just business". Des has it exactly right - it may seem hurtful, but the companies are running businesses and contracting runners that they think will drive brand awareness and advocacy. If performance, attitudes, direction, etc. change (on either side), they'll change relationships and contracts. Happens in every major sport.

Another great show. Kara: If you haven't already tried it, please consider meditation-- visualize yourself running free and easy. Five minutes a day. Give it two weeks.

Great episode!! Des I think of you as Brooks running ambassador, because I think the Brooks' has revitalized since you joined them. Brooks was the shoe supplier of my college back in the 80s, the quality of the Brooks Villanova & Vantages didn't cut it.

Huge shout out to CRAFT who took on "unsignable" Arlen Glick, with no social media presence. Many companies passed over him.

"Less attitude...but that's not working out for me." 😂 SAAAME.

See, I think Clayton Young's youtube presence is a critical element of his brand. Sure, there is an element of keeping the main thing the main thing. But I think his social media, be it youtube, instagram or strava, provides more value to the brand that just his running results. And I think his utilization of social media is actually a big part of what has allowed him to be relatively financially successful in the space, with both his asics sponsorship and now his new cadence sponsorship. It's not to say he isn't fast, but he definitely has a style. He is a seatbelt, backpack, blanket, shutdown corner style. That's how he won the NCAA 10k. In terms of PR times, even at BYU, his times are not as fast as Mantz, as Clinger (who will hit the roads soon), and even Rory Linkletter. He styles on Rory now, but you go back to videos of the time, and the team thought of Young as the captain, and Linkletter as the star, and Linkletter was finishing with faster times and higher placements. Being on the older end, he probably doesn't have a whole lot of potential to just unlock 3-4 literal minutes on his marathon PB, which is probably what it would take to win world majors. However, despite the fact that Mantz is viewed as the more talented runner by almost every metric, with the higher talent ceiling, their socials numbers are somewhat similar (39.6v35.9 instagram) and he has a channel with 25.5k subs and over 1.2m views, and while not gaudy or eye-popping numbers, certainly much higher than you'd expect to see for a #2 american in a running event, a non-medalist. Who didn't have a lot of the hype of being a US phenom, in the same way that say Parker Valby or Nico Young are. I think his value to a brand is that he can bring in 36k views with an instagram post, because that's likely more than the number of people who will tune in to, say, watch the Boston Marathon to see where Clayton Young is.

I keep thinking about Allie O and how her goals and her Normal's ideas didn't mesh so she signed with Oiselle and I LOVE that combo!!!!! Hope some of the folks that got cut by Hoka find other spots.

Great episode! Wish I could see you ladies at the Houston Marathon. Wife and I have reservations at the same time as the podcast.

I won't wear Nike running shoes based on the terrible treatment of female athletes.

Top 5 podcasts...just you guys. Congrats! Demi Moores win and Marisa Tomei for My Cousin Vinny...really? those movies? crazy but cool wins.

We love Clayton young!!!

No matter the kind face they put out into the world and the best intentions and genuine good will of individuals working for the big shoe companies, corporations don't have a soul and they rarely take humanity into consideration when they make decisions. Contracted athletes are not special when it comes to a company making decisions that feel heartless 100% based on profit/stock price/ROI/shareholder value. Corporations will dump high functioning employees with decades of great work contributions if that is what they think is financially required. Employees and brand ambassadors might felt a strong connection to a brand or the people who work there but the corporation is not fond of you back. Companies don't have souls, even if they pretend to. As y'all said, it is just business to them. It also goes both ways. These days, companies are not loyal to employees and employees bounce from company to company whenever it suits them best and are not loyal even to people who gave them opportunities and helped them gain valuable experience and skills. Basically? Every paycheck is the completion of a transaction. You did work. You get paid. Debt, on both sides, paid in full. Next. Or maybe not. Sad but true.

Kudos to a great podcast. Not much of a runner, but still fascinated. I discovered this after listening to the Paris Olympic men's marathon, thinking, that commentator really knows what she's talking about!

would it have been worth discussing brands like bandit which i've heard provide small contracts with easy "out options" for athletes in case they get signed to a bigger/longer term contract with another brand? perhaps this is a fairly recent development in the industry?

24:57 is where they get into contracts

I agree with Des. I turned it off after a few minutes. I love Lisa Kudrow, but I didn’t think it was very good.

Kara - is that a cousins camp sweatshirt? Love it if it is!

68 videos counting this one

I think Silo on Apple TV is great and suspensefull and Yellow Jacket on Netflix!

I can't tell you how much I've enjoyed these sister episodes. Thanks for doing them! Not only does it give us some background to get to understand you better, but seeing how much you all have each other's backs is wonderful.

I love the roosters in the background. I love seeing both of your siblings!

cool family, ahead of their time. Their mom & grand parents must be incredible. Enjoyed the pod. So glad womens sports is becoming more & more appreciated!

Anyone else want to see an episode with Kara's mom now, or is it just me?

After watching both the Kara and Des sibling interviews, you can see why they are both so strong and grounded. That sibling support is huge!

Bravo! That was your best pod to date. Loving the family shows.

I love this so much! Kelly's emotional "their dreams become your dreams" hit hard. Sisterly love is the best. ❤❤❤

I absolutely loved this “sisters” episode! ❤❤❤

I like the idea that everyone who qualifies gets put in a lottery

Sister episodes might be the best! Husband episodes please! All four of you at the same time.😊

I love Kelly. We all need a sibling like Kelly.

Love it! You girls are great. 😀 and the rooster was great comedic relief- I was laughing sooo hard 😂😂

Middle child... this all makes sense now. Here's to the middles!! You should work that crowing rooster into the show on a regular basis.

Welcome sisters! Happy 2025 all of you!

Great questions Des.