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this is pretty similar to the problem tied to "suppression" - the slightly controversial infantry update for squad seemed to help the issue a bit, making the broader strategic dynamics of the battlefield much more pronounced in the outcome of a firefight - if you're being effectively suppressed, you literally cannot effectively return fire because of blurred vision and extreme aim sway. this obviously becomes unpopular with some players who feel that firefights become too random and messy and sometimes more about luck than about skilled aim. i personally think a lot of people tend to exaggerate how bad the aim really is if you just know how to pointfire decently, but ultimately one of the things that puts a stopper to some of the (IMO) more fun strategic pinches and broader team dynamics in firefights is, just as described in this video, the curse of knowledge that you're never in any real danger. even when you're so suppressed that it feels like your soldiers arms are made of spaghetti and you cant see what's in front of you, you're gonna see players getting up and running straight at the enemy, knowing that even if they dont get to do the dirty on them they can simply respawn.

As someone who plays medic a lot in games I really dig the idea of spawning in a med tent and having to wait to be treated, it means during mass cas events that resupplies would be slowed dramatically giving even more impact to those big fights for contexted points but just being randomly picked off still wouldn't feel like a slog to respawn from

"fit them in your pocket"

gmod dark rp puts a timer and a zone around where you died and makes it so you cannot enter it for long or you die. i don't think thats too bad of an idea but maybe you would have to have some modification to the system like where there needs to be a certain amount of teamates to go back into the area without the timer idk

Swap servers every time you wanna respawn, reinforcements come from other players dying in other matches

What if players respawn into a different server.

I think a missing component to the curse of knowledge is whether or not it is used and how much can be used. I frequently see people charge the same defensive position in the exact same spot and die again, having learned nothing from previous lives. Its a curse that afflicts players able to learn and adapt. Those that don't adapt are both immune to the curse and often a detriment to their teams.

Then you have games like Elden Ring, which turn the Curse of Knowledge into a main gameplay feature....

yes, its a simple and easy solution. remove the killcam. if you're shot in the back of your head, you dont get a damage indicator, your screen just goes black. *screen lights back up* "you're on a path in a forest, and in that forest, is a house."

Me playing foxhole:

It also depends on the death cam. You can get shot in an area but depending on the death cam you won’t know what direction they shot you from or where they are in that area. In HLL I sat in a church tower with a shotgun for 30 mins lol only died cause I ran out of ammo

Imagine a battlefield that is divided in sections. Everytime you die, you get shuffled to a new portion of the battlefield. These sections are perhaps divided by minefields or such.

I enjoy the large scale stuff but grew up on smaller scale 1 life mechanics. Why cant we have smaller confined maps and teams , attack / defend , objectives to accomplish - when you die in the round you are out. Squad could do this, arma could. It dosent have to be a 50km sq map to fight on…. 5v5, 10v 10, multiple squads 24v 24 with similar principles. Still tactical, balanced and skill based. Americas army 2 (game) was the goat and OG..

Curse of knowledge is also more than just knowing where someone is after "death" and the reporting the approximate position on respawn. Map knowledge goes miles beyond knowing where someone is, people memorize maps and the fastest ways to get where they want after playing it 2-3 times. Sure making maps vast and open helps keep an element of surprise for both sides but You can generally predict where people would most likely come from, not even mentioning youtubers/streamers making guides and stuff like "fastest route vs safest route to get to X objective!!!!1!" The only way I could see to combat that from a development side would be to have a randomly generated map every X days/hours/week but that's borderline impossible for any tac shooter bigger than Ready or Not. Hell even RoN might be to large for it. As for the CoK (curse of knowledge) discussed in this video, the only reasonable way I could see to add some sort of prevention is to limit ways to report it i.e. No comms/marking on maps until Linking back up with a certain destination or your Squad lead. Or force squad based respawns with some leeway for individuals to respawn if medical attention isn't an option.

I've referred to this phenomena from the context of "meta" knowledge before. Knowing spawns, knowing the game mode, knowing the design of the game, exploits...... The moment your first experience is gone, meta knowledge accumulates. Knowledge "outside" the workings of the current game session. "The curse of knowledge" as you so aptly call it, may extend further than just knowing where the guy that killed you is camping, where the fortification is... After multiple matches on the same map, you can expect player propogation throughout the map and be able to call potential positions you wouldn't really be able to with just "experience"

just an idea but respawning could alternate between locations or squads, so that you aren't put back into the same part of the battle immediately, that way by the time you have died and alternate back the situation will have changed significantly and your previous knowledge's usefulness will be greatly diminished due to the amount of time that has passed edit: i commented this just before he brought up dayZ at 6:00 going over pretty much this concept

hell let loose possibly

WarThunder is HORRID with this.

One life events or shuffling the spawning system in an inorganic way. Complete change of squad or remove spawn from like 2km range.

If a battlefield is big enough, like it can be in ArmA the problem could be solved by assigning the player to another section of the frontline and a different role altogether. I do like the idea of a wounded respawn as well, especially with ACE-mod it will take a good while for the comrade to wake up and heal back to a combat-ready state.

Also true in airsoft

Get killed, spawn into a different scenario/ place of combat, not too close and not million miles away either. Getting killed again could let you back into the scenario/place 1, if enough time has been spent elsewhere, in other combat situations. Living lives of a couple of soldiers in a couple of different places could fix the need to spawn back and avoid the curse, all without sacrificing 3 minutes on respawn screen or spawning million miles away…

They should make a game where you have one life and upon death respawn in one of the other ongoing games. But that would be obviously more inconvenient and less popular while being more dependent on stable and large playerbase to supply constant reinforcements.

Arms reformer is dying online because all the experienced players play on the USSR team instead of helping most of the new players that are typically playing on the US Team I’d be nice if the trolling would be stopped and both teamed were more equaled out to make it a more fair game for both sides!

What about switching the player's role on respawn - like placing them into a logistics or support role, maybe in a different engagement area. They won't stay with their squad, but maybe that won't be too much of a detriment

Isnt the solution a technical one of the game's capabilities? What about more players and, by extension, more objectives? On death, you spawn in to an fob, are put into a different squad and given a different set of objectives. As it is, battles are too small scale and too focused on single areas due to lack of fighting power. Even greatly improved and more numerous AI would help. The scope of the battlespace just needs to be increased

They have a term for this in roleplay games called NLR (New Life Rule) where any time you die you are expected to completely forget and not metagame the events and knowledge you gained from your previous life. It is often ignored which is why admins often need to speak with or even ban people for it. This then leads to power hungry people becoming admins for the power to harass people over a rule that is rather hard to define and enforce in play, and is where you get all the memes about Gmod admins. “One day you will have to answer to God, and he will not be as merciful as me.” - Gmod Admin The real way to fix this would be just to kick players from the server the first time they die until the next round, so you only get one life each round on each server. Not sure if the population could sustain that but it would completely eliminate curse of knowledge and ramboing situations, along with upping the stakes. You may start as the first wave or freshly arrived reinforcements needing to get second hand information from those still alive. Recon patrols who are killed don’t just respawn and tell you what killed them, in fact they don’t report back at all. When you die your fight is over and maybe when the round is over it tells you in the main menu if your side won or not, but in the meantime you join another server and play your next one life. I think something like that would both be incredibly fun but could also be incredibly annoying in some situations. There most likely is improvements that could be made.

This is why I love games like spacestation 13. You are FORCED to not use meta info, you must play 'in character'. If mods catch ya, you're banned.

" The best medicine is return fire " Corpsman W.W. Walker

What about when you die you are moved to a server that playes the same map. And set in a respawn que for the same team so when someone die you respawn as renforcement on that server.

very good video ❤

I don't think the curse of knowledge is absent in real life it's just distributed. The losses incurred by an individual can still provide information to the organization. e.g. A company makes an assault on an enemy position and take some casualties. yes the dead soldiers are not coming back but those who live still share in the knowledge of those events or the enemy forces that killed their compatriots.

Randomly generated maps would work

Use a one life system like CS or make the respone time longer with out the chance to comunicat with team mates befor is over, and besides snipers relocating is a thing in real life, so you coming back is just what your squad mates would do in real life.

To add to the meidca idea, you could have to BE the medic at the hospital for a little while too, or some sort of logistics role in the back where you do supporting tasks that normally would be too boring for most players to choose

Running supplies is best enjoyed and useful In convoys of 3 to 4 with assigned rolls and tactics for road warfare

I enjoy the system that is used for insurgency sandstorm in which respawns are done in waves, so a lot the time the flow of gameplay means people reposition naturally. In particular, I really like the mode Firefight because respawns only happen when that team takes a capture point

Maybe you could try force respawning the player and never having a map. The player would have to figure out where they are, only having an objective point directing them. They don't get to choose their spawn and have to figure out new solutions with each death. It would also add stress to combat as the players don't want to respawn in a place where their team may lose the advantage.

Maybe, once somebody dies, they will be sent to and respawn in a whole different server as a new conscript. Once your buddy that you just made dies, you are likely not going to see him ever again. A couple problems with this is that there might no be enough players to keep many servers filled and that there might be bias of the amount of players in a server if one has a lot of action and one is stagnant.

Took a good moment to realize what the curse of knowledge was before you went into the segment explaining it. OperatorDrewski uploaded a video a while ago on Arma 3 Vietnam where players are removed from the game after a certain condition (don’t remember exactly, I think it was victory over enemy outposts?). Personally seems a bit extreme, but it’s a popular server, so it definitely has a crowd for it.

Hahahahaha.. I thot it was a "Pineapple". Cool Team mates ard you as Sqd Leader

Hell Let Loose basically "solves" it by having players die (usually) in a single shot and not having a kill cam. When I find a good spot withy sniper team we usually don't have to move until the frontline changes due to the range involved.

I'm mainly familiar with the one-life solution. This still leaves common tactics on a known map dangerous because everyone is familiar with what does and doesn't work in that map, but this isn't as unrealistic as respawn knowledge. It's a balance between realism focused on good communication &c. and extended gameplay through respawns and other adjustments that focus attention on just the core shooting element.

In RTS and turn based games the fog of war mechanics return a black shroud when you all units die in an area, maybe in tactical shooters the player who got killed/injured gets radar and radio static temporarily if they try to return to where they died right away, and they get demoted also after death so they don't have as many chat privaleges so they can't share the knowledge from their death to their team mates.

This could be solved with the upcoming remake of WWII online. When you die, you could be respawned in a completely different city as a new soldier. Preventing you to go back to the engagement that just killed you. I dont know if this is planned, but would be cool.

Try the latest medical mod for hell on earth. I had dudes on the ground with internal bleeding in their brains and no idea how to fix them haha. Gives a mix of blood pressure injector, something to slow heart rate, smelling salts, EPI of course and more. Increasing their blood pressure seemed to do a lot of good though so.

Another "great" idea is: Every time you die, you must spawn on the opposing team! 🤡

Maybe delay the death signals, like sounds or muzzle flashes, remove kill cams during the match. maybe putting a penalties to revenge seeking. Or the curse of knowledge is just a consequence of a game, where players would find ways to exploit the flaws in the game design or outright cheat.

I remember playing battlefield 4 and feeling like I was the only one who paid attention to the fact that the kill cam existed. When I would die, I could go back if I saw that my killer was just sitting in the exact same position, and it would guarantee a kill. If I was holding a position and Killed someone, I would hold my position for about 10 seconds until the kill cam ended for the enemy so I could move without worrying about the enemy knowing my location.

Some Arma communities pioneered a game mode where you only get one life per game, that completely solves this issue and changes the dynamic completely. They’ve been doing this since Arma 2, with groups like ShackTack. Unfortunately, the most popular 100 vs. 100 PvP servers (ShackTack is mostly PVE), like Solid Games and Tushino Serious Games, are Russian. I wish there were more Western options for this hardcore, realistic tactical experience. They usually last around 2 hours, with commanders spending a week prepping beforehand.