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I'm sorry that you get confused. I don't understand what you're actually asking here.

Of course, they are almost the same. How else will a beginner understand what is plot. The evolution of the main character takes place in both story and plot.

Thank you for giving me the opportunity to clarify this. The dramatic question is different from the thematic question. The dramatic question is just "the basics". It is about the story plot. However, many aspiring writers forget to incorporate such a question that will hold the viewer's attention. The thematic question, on the other hand, is more philosophical, not concerned with keeping the viewer's interest during the movie, yet when answered at the end of the film, it gives a sense of completion and catharsis to the viewer.

Any examples of this in movies?

I'm sorry I saw this movie many years ago and don't remember the plot points.

Happy to hear that!

Yes, you're right!

Wow! Such a long comment and I reaaaally don't have the time to answer everything. I'm just going to say that of course I also have seen the "other sources" you mention and I just... disagree. Allow me to disagree, please, that the inciting incident has to happen to the protagonist. The inciting incident is the first piece of the domino. Of course, the story can go in many different directions. What makes this particular story what it is, is not the inciting event but the first plot point. I think the first person who ever used these terms in his book about the screenplay was Syd Field. He also separates the inciting incident from the key incident or whatever you want to call it. But since all this is just terminology and names, let's agree on the following: Is there always an event that starts the story? There is. Is there always an event that pushes the protagonist to get involved? There is. Are those two the same event? Well, in my opinion sometimes yes and sometimes no. That's so simple. And remember something else. If an event is completely irrelevant to the story, it wouldn't even be there in the first place. The event with the guy that gets killed is necessary to start the domino and for everything else to happen. If Spielberg didn't need this scene he would have cut it.

@@ScriptwritingTips Yes there is always an event that starts the story. The story has to start somewhere. Jurassic starts after the Park is already underway to being built. Everything happening before the handler is killed is backstory offscreen - I agree with that. But the handler getting killed is a Hook. It hints at the premise of the movie: theme park with live dinosaurs thst cannot ever really be safely controlled. Of course it’s necessary to the movie! I didn’t say it wasn’t necessary. I said it wasn’t the inciting incident. All scenes should have a cause and effect on the subsequent scene. Because the handler was killed, his family caused ruckus, which caused investors to become leery which caused them to demand sign off which caused Hammond to seek out Alan. You can trace cause and effect throughout the movie on every scene. Dominoes. But being a domino or even the first domino we see on screen doesn’t necessarily make it an inciting incident. For example, the handler gets killed - okay- but what if Hammond had just asked Dr. Malcolm to go to the Island and not Alan? Same movie? No. But once Hammond asks ALAN to go - now we have Jurassic Park in a manner that could not otherwise play out the way it did. Remember, we are tracking a specific protagonist. He’s the reason for a movie. The domino that changes (catalyst) the protagonist’s life is the domino in the first act that causes(incites) the protagonist to have an opportunity to go on a journey of change. That is the inciting incident. I will stick with that term because it’s what you have used as the title to your video instructing people how to find it. The protagonist will have to make a choice right after the inciting incident happens because it’s happening to him and not someone else. What choice did Alan have to make as a DIRECT result of the handler being killed? None. Hammond had to make a choice at that point but he’s not the protagonist. It’s Alan’s movie. Structurally, the inciting incident has to tie directly to him and not just eventually after ten other things happen because it’s his journey we’re going on. The guy getting killed is backstory /hook / set up. The dominoe that gets the protagonist Alan involved and incites him to decide to go - is simply and directly when he is invited by Hammond to go to the island. By the way, Once upon a time usually is formatted to mention the protagonist FIRST right after “a time” as in “there was a Hero, main character that was living their life but they wanted something. One day…they were given an opportunity to get it (inciting incident). Or they were presented with a problem (inciting incident) and were forced to solve it. My point there is that it’s always all about the protagonist. Therefore, find the Protagonist, find the most DIRECT change to his status quo and THAT is the inciting incident because it is the thing that they can’t walk away from and the event that leads to the course to change their life…after they commit to the decision that leads to the second act via the first plot point. So we will have to agree to disagree on how to find the inciting incident in a movie or story - especially soecific to Jurassic Park - but I wish you continued success with your channel.

Hi@@nikkinewbie6014 Yes, we will have to agree that we disagree on this. However, you admit that "You can trace cause and effect throughout the movie on every scene. Dominoes. But being a domino or even the first domino we see on screen doesn’t necessarily make it an inciting incident." Of course, it does! That's what inciting means! I have another video where I explain that the inciting incident and the call to adventure are not the same thing. Most people say it's the same. From your argument, I guess you do too. But, the Call to Adventure happens to the protagonist, while the inciting incident is what causes the call to adventure and it DOESN'T have to happen to the protagonist. By the way the argument you keep using about "same movie or not" doesn't prove anything actually. In EVERY turning point, there are several other things that could have happened that would turn it into a different movie. And there are plenty turning points in every movie. It's the Theme that keeps it together and makes it this particular movie and not something else. Anyway, when you're writing, what counts is your writing and not what terms you're using and how. It's really okay to have your own thoughts on this, as long as this helps to your writing. So, if you're a writer, I wish you all the best! And I'm pretty sure that you will use scenes like the one with the guy who gets killed in JP when you realize that they're necessary to your story, even if you don't call them inciting incidents. (Btw, it's not just a hook...) 🙂

😆

Sure, why not? If it works for you! Transformation and change is always the most important part of a story. However, your suggestions above seem to me more like a theme than a premise. I mean, what is the answer to the questions you asked? Is there an answer? It seems to me as if you have included the answer to your question, e.g. a man-child becomes a man, alcoholism leads to enlightenment.

@@ScriptwritingTips I see what you mean. A theme is a question and a premise is a statement. So a premise with a question mark is confusing. The premise should indicate what happens, right?

@@spoiler321 Contrary to what most people believe, I consider the premise different than the logline and the theme. The premise is a hypothesis. And it should be catchy for a movie.

Nice to read that!

Oh, thank you!!! 😘

I'm sorry for the late reply, but I was working on a TV project. Do you still need a mentor or have you found one?

@@ScriptwritingTips I have not found yet🙏🏿

I'll try to find one

It could be, but I think you're limiting it too much if you put it that way. The inciting incident is the first thing that happens, which changes everyday "normality" e.g. Every day was the same boring thing, going to work, returning home, watching tv, and sleeping. One day, he received a strange anonymous letter... blah blah which changed everything in his life. In this example, receiving the letter is the inciting incident. Let me give you a different example now. Every day it was raining flowers in this strange world. She would grab the first flower that fell into her hands and she would put it in her hair. But that day, a sudden flash in the purple sky ceased abruptly the flower rain. She didn't know what was happening. The sky started raining drops of water. It seemed like it was crying. She didn't like that at all. She decided to find out why this was happening, after all, she wanted her flowers back. So, she set up a mission to discover the truth. In the second example, the inciting incident is the flash in the sky. I hope the above examples make it clearer now!

@@ScriptwritingTips Very helpful, thank you!

Very happy to hear that!

Sorry for the late reply but I was busy with a TV project. I'll try to do that soon.

@@ScriptwritingTips THENK YOU

Hi! I am sorry I don't understand the question. Can you explain more please?

Thank you so much!

Hi! Happy new year! I've read your premise but I don't really understand what you mean by "pure observation".

@@ScriptwritingTips Yeah, I realized I was just putting up the what if question. But here goes. What I mean by that is a movement that develops that is based on the notion of doing nothing. In the society of the story, there are already hardly any jobs, and all commerce is controlled by one major entity. A movement develops where people decide that the fastest way to take down those powerful entities is to simply stop participating and observe the ongoing collapse of the global ecosystem. It is based on a Buddhist sort of notion of non-attachment, etc.

@@pathminusdestination Hi, I don't know... I'm not sure how you can come up with a plot when your heroes would "do nothing".

@@ScriptwritingTips The heroes organize the mass non-action through a subversive technology. Then millions of workers at a global commerce company simply refuse to do anything at all for one week. If they do nothing but observe the ecological collapse around them, it is impossible for the techno-fascist elite to operate. :)

To indicate that they're a new character...lol!

Well, of course it can be less than four. John Truby also says that. But he also underlies that there's going the less opposition the less plot you'll have.

I really want to. I'll try to make some more soon!

The climax is the point of most intense action when the protagonist either wins or loses in the third act.