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Honestly, over the past 5 years it's felt like Riot has been trying to find new playerbases with these new projects, but at the same time they're axing their existing playerbase. They should have just sent it on the project despite seeing failures from other studios. The issue with Multiversus and Nick All stars was the physics imo. I think if any studio were to get the move/frame cancelling shtick down it would have been Rito.

Guys realm of aurelion is NOT good. How u wanna name a game off one champ

Yes it's like if you go into a boxing ring with someone who has been given a riot shield and a riot baton because they have done it more then you

Comparing it to Hades, Dead Cells or Moonlighter has got to be the worst take i have ever heard. Do people just dont know of Vampire Survivor? It is a carbon copy of the game to the last detail. The weapons are the same, the stat modifier are the same, even the evo paths are the fucking same. The only argument in defense to this copy is that it was programmed by a single person as a passion project.

That is the point of mmos tbf. Thats like complaining bow vs ak in Rust is unfair. Its the point

pvp in ffxiv is a lot of fun, gear is scaled so everyone is equal, everyone is also at the same set level AND your abilities are changed specifically for pvp

It's like they wanted to add the goofy shit you could add in Skyrim with mods but it doesn't work in an MMO because you can't turn it off once it's in the game. Nobody is going to come back to WoW for a stupid looking onesie, nobody is going to go "hmm well I was going to play Fortnite but can you believe WOW added the same type of cosmetic?!"

Interesting points! If you want to avoid the grind and want a more traditional MMO experience Toontown Corporate Clash is a great server! However I definitely recommend working on your mic quality. Check the tuning because sometimes it feels like you're too close and I can't make out what you say sometimes.

I think a good way to do it is something like wow's toy system. You can make it a buff that applies and if you enter combat or an instance it removes the buff and you can't reapply it in those zones.

Restrictions make character choices more important

All races can be any class because it's fun. If you don't like it cause there's no lore reason you're a nerd.

the light in wow is a hard one... some aspects you COULD be a bit demonic with a bit of light, you could 100% bend the light to your will, Light isnt strictly good nor evil. Some paladins have that blockage when they do something good BUT feel like its bad, so like if you were a paladin and you did something good like help an enemy but in your head you're like i did something BAD, that can actually stop your usage of the light... BUT lets say you're a twisted paladin and do something BAD but in your head you think its good, you can still call the light. The light in essence has no moral guidance, it only goes off YOUR moral guidelines. so all and all, you could be a lightforged draenei warlock, your characters mindset has to be in the right place.

I love MMO lore but I'm not fixated on the devs keeping it completely inflexible. I think this take is dumb.

First 10 minutes is an unintentional commentary on multiculturalism

Answering one of the things that was questioned in the video In WoW you have the Yeti costume, In final fantasy you can dress as a catfish, a chocobo and as a frog and they all look dumb, not to mention the classic armored bikinis you can get from Dzmael a level 40- something dungeon if I'm not mistaken and the newly added fem Hrothgar which are just coomer furry bait. You can also play as extremely rare classes lorewise such as Black and White mages, Summoners with more than one Primal and stuff like that, so the world bends to the player's will which honestly I don't mind that much. Now an MMO with a very complex lore having Lightforged Warlocks is a massive disrespect to the lore, specially the Draenei, the people that escaped their planet due to the demons, were enslaved by the orcs because of a warlock and they were sacrificed in mass by the same warlock to create the dark portal, it's not just bad, it's disrespectful to a story that has been in motion for over 30 years now.

Toon town was sooo goood

This was already a problem decades ago with Noggenfogger Elixir.

Shit like yeti pajamas is not only not funny, it’s not even cool. It’s for trolling purposes. People PAY to look stupid to have that troll look in MMOs. The devs sacrificed the immersion of the world for “trolling purposes.” Well congratulations your goal has been achieved because I feel trolled by this stupid paytard horse shit

10 years or less people stop buying ALL of this shit

The Light and the Fell weren't opposite. The Light and the Void are opposite. The Fell is the opposite of Nature if I recall correctly.

man i remember playing this game so much when i could. and yeah grindy is an understatement, i think i did more of the side stuff than do any of the fighting with the cogs.

Y’all people are the not fun type of nerds

So after this I tried toontown rewritten. Man that game is chill

Fel isn't Demonic by nature, it's simply a powerful destructive magic source the Demons prefer to employ. That's like saying Arcane is "good guy magic" because Khadgar prefers it over Fire or Ice. It's simply a tool used by magic practitioners. A Lightforged Draenei makes perfect sense. They're protected by the Light so much they cannot even consider being lured in by Demonic influence and can safely cast from the pool. A lesser person would succumb to the influence over time, noted by most Warlocks being insane or evil in nature. In that sense, a Tauren would make for a good Warlock as well, knowing when enough is enough and not overloading an area with Fel in attempts to maintain a natural balance of magic within an ecosystem. Night Elves aren't restricted to just Nature magic, Lightforged aren't restricted to just Light magic, Undead aren't restricted to Necromancy. That would just be silly. There have been notable Night Elves that excel at Arcane studies, there's been an Undead Priests since the game came out. There's no argument to be had here, you just don't like it and that's fine, but don't paint it like it doesn't make sense when there's plenty of lore reasons why it does.

In FFXIV they invented an in lore excuse to let the player become classes that have been heavily restricted in the story, and even though it's perhaps a little immersion breaking when you do all classes in one character, i find it really great when it's only two or three. The thing is i prefer this over just not explaining and having no excuse that is full dissonant. BUT the thing that may be more dissonant is the Race, since it really doesn't make any difference other than appearence i think it's better forgiven than when it is dependant to where you start and extra racial skills. Here's just like an introduced lost soul in the form of one of the races, rather than a member of the communities

Part of the problem is they keep catering to children no body wants to acknowledge that the loudest players are the kids

I think another aspect that I feel MMOs like WoW miss out on with their huge lore is immersion for your characters which you guys touched upon. For example, the Orcs. They were made up of many clans, but you always start in Orgrimmar and you are just an Orgrimmar orc (unless you play as Maghar nowadays). It would be cool if you could select a clan you hail from like Frostwolves, Warsong, Bleeding Hollow or Blackrock to name a few. We have questline with those same clans who are officially part of the Horde but it really feels you have little in common with them since they have their own identity and always treat you like an outsider in their dialogue. It would be cool if they treated you a little differently depending on which clan you selected. Same for baseline Human players. You could be a Stormwinder, a Lordaeron refugee or an Arathi from Stromgarde. Battle for Azeroth kinda highlighted how disconnected I felt with the world playing as a Gilnean Worgen, hailing from a human kingdom that has its own cool storyline. In that expansion you could now create Kul Tiran human and have your own thing goin on there while other nations kind of felt left out. Same with Trolls, you have multiple different tribes, many of them small but some bigger. But you can only play as a Jungle Troll (Darkspear) or as the Zandalari. You can't play as a Forest Troll despite tribes like Revantusk being part of the Horde. I think little tweaks of flavors like these being addressed could also help breathe new life into the world and add more immersion.

Giving every race every class is the most stupid idea unless it was designed like that from the very beginning. Warcraft never had this "everyone can be anything" crap. Some things were not only race restricted, like only male night elves being druids and only females being priestesses.

Been glad in burning crusade , MoP , cata , and Shadowlands . . . I watch AWC or pika play and even I cannot tell at all what the absolute heck is going on . . It’s terrible . I haven’t even played dragonlands . . Its just not even fun or playable anymore . And it stopped being enjoyable around MoP . . It’s way too bulky forgetting the added fact now the game is completely focused on M+ and raiding . PvP is just absolutely not a thing to the devs . They do not care . At all .

I actually had this argument with someone the other day. He was offended by the story of Yrel in the Maghar recruitment quest and started saying that the Light makes him feel bad and that Paladins should have a void alternative. Like why? Why do we need to just upend the lore to appeal to people that don’t actually care about the lore? Like who asked for Tauren Warlocks? Actually though. Same thing for this guy asking for a Void Paladin. What Paladin mains are asking for that? If you want to expand choice, there needs to be some legitimate lore reason behind it. Like how Blizzard is toying with Darkspear Paladins. It would make sense after reconnecting with the Zandalari and the rebirth of the Loa of Kings as Vol’jin it actually makes LESS sense to not have Darkspear Paladins. But then you have Tauren Warlocks; like my guy how do OUR playable Tauren even reckon with the fact that their magic effectively destroys what their culture holds dear. Yeah they can be Feltotem, but like if they are why are they called Highmountain Tauren then, because Highmountain is the tribe, Feltotem is the tribe. This is just another case of Steve Danuser not fucking getting IT

These guys REEEALLLYY shouldn't talk about wow lore...they very painfully don't know shit about the lore

Pvp in MMOs is dumb. The only game that does it right is Runescape. There is a reason to do it but it is risky and RNG heavy.

Hello. I discovered you guys today and have really enjoyed listening to your MMO discussions! Looking forward to more. Take care!

Restricting players is part of what makes a game a game. Unless you're specifically setting out to make some sort of world-builder type of game, restricting player choice is part of what creates the aesthetic, tone and themes of the game. Take those restrictions away and you have meaningless mush.

Then the Devs and Art department need to make gear look appealing to the wearer, the reason Transmog is a big thing is because the set designs are shite now

Could be resolved by having class specific training areas, if you're class and background don't clash, then you can choose, otherwise you're restricted to only choosing the class specific training area

Wow currently looks like a children's game. But I'm not surprised, dumb cosmetics sell, probably enough that for Blizzard it's worth killing the immersion for dumb looking cosmetics.

I don't see the problem. If I as a player want to be a lightforged draenei that turns warlock, why shouldn't I be able to? The only part I'd agree with is that this is wrong in the way you create and level your character in terms of lore, but there's no way wow can fix this. Ideally I'd start a character without class and just a race, and take a path to pick a class from there through means of lore, but that's simply impossible with WoW right now. Every class choice can be justified through Lore, but making this process playable for every class for every race is a feat that takes up so much time, I'd rather have this time spent on player housing or something that actually matters at end-game.

I hate pijama/beach skins, suits, mogs.... I wanna fantasy feels like one...

agreed. they could easily cut the available classes for every race in half and it would be good. the only ones where having everything KINDA makes sense are humans and undead, given that humans are the most average joe race and undead are just.. humans but unfortune. relinquishing immersion for accessibility is a stupid move, always has been. kinda like they gave up on buying the skills and weapon skill.

Im a really high xp arms warrior, the balance was really strong in legion and wod. Like right now arena has a micro stun meta due to the pve catering, Then blizzard wonders why people dont want to que arena.

I get this feeling on guild wars2 dude holy f, man in one side you see a giant dude with an axe and metal armor ready for battle then you look the other way there is a dude with flip flops and sun glasses and a green t shirt. I mean its funny but it breaks imersion

Hell yeah I completely agree, sacrificing lore and in game immersion is never worth it for getting invested in a world. On The topic of goofy looking armor, I’d recommend looking at the way Guild Wars 2 does transmogs. They have a system where you can not only choose what your armor looks like but you can dye it whatever color you want. They also have a wide variety of outfits, some which are silly but most of which look cool as hell. There is also a toggle for outfits and regular gear so if you want to look like a random citizen, a farmer, or a chef you can but you can very quickly switch back to your regular armor.

Cries for my warcraft 3 draenai that lived in the fel

Wow flathead just didnt get the point about the even playing field. He is just too stupid for it. I tihnk i can stop listening.

Gear having zero affect makes the pvp boring, then it’ll be the same 1 build for the whole lifetime of the game.

Counter strike is not an MMO

I had an amazing time for 4 or 5 years with PvP in Elder Scrolls Online, the entire PvE side of that game didn't interest me at all. I had a small scale group of ~8 very good players, and a massive guild which we used to coordinate server wide tactical/strategical movements. We also did GuildvGuild fights and smaller "pitched battles", but we had to set those up ourselves. There was no duelling or Battle Arena then. I can understand why people have had bad experiences with PvP but I think that's largely solo players who want to experience single player content in a world where you occasionally run into other players to make it seem more lively. That's not an MMO to me. I can go into why ESO PvP came undone. Part of it was what was mentioned at the start of the video - they had no seperate PvE/PvP balancing and PvP players didn't spend half as much as PvE players. But there's a lot more to it.

1. clearly a skill issue... the only thing you have to do is GIT GUD 2. did you even play guild wars? there are max stats for gear and skills are different in PVE and PVP so no one can beat you "because of better gear" or "because the skills are made for PVE" and most importantly... why is youtube showing me this vid? did they think im kinda interested in wasting my time on a forced content...?

PVP just doesn't belong in mmorpgs... it's a waste of development resrouces. any argument pro pvp for mmos is just delusional and cope