The Artist Analysed: Who Is Carmina Mora? | Dead by Daylight Lore Deep Dive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ก.ย. 2024
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Welcome friends and foes, Survivors and Killers. Today we'll be unpacking the Artist, the newest Killer and... there's a lot. We'll be looking into the agency problem that plagues her story, her real-life inspiration and the social context behind her life in 1970s Chile.
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ok
Viva Pinochet, viva chile, viva libertad!
Viva por siempre, mi general!
The fact that you got an interview with an actual survivor of the regime shows how you put more thought and effort into this video than the Devs put into Carmina.
Well it does seem that way but I believe they didn’t as much effort because of this “politically correct” bs or just not trying to get their game banned from a country but that’s what I think is the reason why there might be more reasons but those are the best I can come up with
@@Mazule24 wdym by politically correct,nurse is literally into eugenics??
@@molo1848 we don’t talk about nurses tome lore
@@whybi8049 - Indeed.
I'm chilean and to me it seemed fine? it was incredibly similar to Victor Jara and many other's stories
edit: I mean to reply to mazule lol
I know The Artist has some lore issues, but I'll *never* get over how incredibly cool her design is. Not just her visual aspects, but even her power. She reminds me of the Plague in her uniqueness.
I don’t that much, she just looks like girl trickster with ink demon bendy from bendy and the ink machine
She doesnt look like a killer imo. She feels out of place for me
@@Rabbit-o-witz So does the Plague. But they're both still awesome.
I love her! I really liked her lore IMO. She’s the first killer that I actually looked up. :3
@@miketrapper0464 There's literally zero parallels between the appearance of the Artist and the Trickster so I'd love to know how "she just looks like the girl trickster". It's so much easier to just say you don't like how she looks.
As a chilean myself, I'm thinking probably somewhere in the meeting boards of Behavior, a higher up got too scared of pushing through with the political narrative due to Pinochet being a highly divisive figure here in Chile even now days (we even have a candidate for our 2021 elections who says that he did nothing wrong). This definitely took from what could've been a great story about revolution and maybe "going to far" to save the people.
But even then, I think there were better ways to implement the Black Vale into the story if the higher ups needed it to be. Have Carmina be so passionate about helping the people of Chile against the regime, that she takes help from the wrong hands, falling to promises of power from the Black Vale to help the country she loves.
That could even tie in to jonah’s sorry if they had done that, with attempting to help and failing. That has been a recurring theme with lots of chapters. Flesh and mud being revolved around bad luck, spark of madness being revolved around, well… madness, and more
This is my personal opinion and I might be completely wrong because I'm not a Chilean, but I think Behavior's exclusion of the mention of Pinochet was less because of what Chileans might think and more to the benefit of the United States.
It's a well-known fact that the US supported him in his regime and by extension his atrocities. To me, Behavior's action here seems like giving a way to the US to save face, rather than any consideration about Chilean's opinions of Pinochet.
This seems like an attempt to excuse US's atrocities to seem "apolitical" because the US is their biggest market.
If you look at the survivor of this DLC, Behavior also gave the US a copout there. The survivor (A US soldier) commits war crimes but only because he's being "tricked by the terrorists". The US would NEVER commit war crimes in the Mid East. /s
It would have been much more interesting to see a character that struggles to deal with the things he/she's done in the line of duty. But Behavior was more interested in not making the US feel TOO bad.
@@sars910 I think you nailed it. Here in the US we have a very bad habit of teaching our citizens very little about other countries history and basically NEVER talking about any involvement with unscrupulous and corrupt entities to advance our interests. We are always "the good guys" even if it's "liberating the people" from a government that won't sell us oil for cheap.
And to that end: I honestly didn't know the US backed Pinochet until now. I was never taught this in school at all. I am also not at all surprised.
Wn kast qlo que decia que hasta se podia tomar un te con pinochet en la moneda. Que sacó wea tan grande. Realmente creyo que podia ganar despues de decir esos comentarios
@@sars910 I think is a little mixture of both, yeah, you're right, that last bit of US backing up Pinochet is true, but it's something so integral to our country history and leaves the US in such a bad place that tends to be cut from most classes outside of Chile, and also maybe they tried to keep as "Vanilla" as possible, shying away from the more gruesome stuff since there's still people that lived, suffered and even lost people, or has family that went throught the regime still alive scattered around the globe (Since it's a fairly known fact that a chunk of our people fled the country the bare second the chance was presented, no matter wich place they would end up, as my grandma says: "anywhere was a better place to live than here") as to the opposite, people that lived throught the regime, coddled or biased because of stuff like the low crime rates and blahblah that they still support Pinochet
That + The US focus of the survivor lore may make apparent that probably they were afraid of making major mistakes on the writting and causing them to be seen under a bad light because of it, since believe me, you DONT want to get Chileans on your bad side if you're trying to tell a story about the regime, it's one of those topics that's really dangerous to fly around without having a really good grasp of it, more now than ever that our society (Chilean I mean) was going throught a massive uproar that was only shut down by the pandemic, maybe this 2-3 factors made them feel compelled to "photoshop out" the Chilean politics of the picture, wich historywise wasn't an option, people could play pretend to be oblivious or "apolotical/non-affiliated" but you were constantly bombarded with propaganda that still feels like an insult to my country's history that they decided to cut politics out from most of her lore given the context Carmina's living throught.
On another note, I think a part of why the lore sucks a lot is because of a lack of impact on the historical context is set, they tell you when the Lore takes place but it's almost anecdotical if it wasn't by its end not to say inconsistent, it doesn't explore that much of it and sure, it's not necessary to capitalize on the historical facts to make it good, but if they did emphazise that Carmina lived during those times and actually participated on one side of the political debate, me, as a Chilean that not only studied this period intensively and has family that lived throught that period (and not to mention that politicaly speaking we tend to be really... abrasive, vocal and polarized, just for an example, the comment above me is basically a random dude berating one of the candidates of our most recent elections because... yeah.)
I do expect they at least make something with it, because they created this little build up that ends up leading to nothing, I'm not expecting BhV to explicitly mention Pinochet but at least if they're trying to write up a character that lived throught that period, I'm expecting them to do their homework and give it the proper pressence AND importance it deserves (Hell, they could've replaced black vale with DINA Agents and would've worked a tad better!) since they basically tried to write the Lore of a victim of torture and vanishment (as Victor Jara, the artist she's inspired from) of the regime and that shows.
As another side note from a chilean, I'm not sure if the writers at BHVR investigated THAT much, but there's a fairly popular book that describes the attrocities of the Chilean dictatorship called "The Dance of the Crows", this could be a reason of why they took the crow imagery, and I sure hope it is because the book is quite good.
Do you know the author? I can't find the book
@@polanski9330 Javier Rebolledo is the name
I think it's Javier Rebolledo
Do you maybe have a link or something I can only find the original or Spanish version
Ese libro es 10/10
Ironically, the way the Artist was artificially denied her thematic impact through poor writing and deliberate erasure of the CIA's involvement is eerily similar to how actual artists are treated under fachist regimes.
man major props to get someone who lived during the regime in an interview
also even major props realizing you didnt know much about the topic and managing to get someone to explain it to you really well
I am Chilean and I have disappeared relatives. My uncle was arrested and disappeared under Pinochet's rule. Even today, we still don't know where he is, how he died and where his body was abandoned like garbage, but we are still fighting to find him. Nowadays, we are facing another threat of extreme fascism. Kast is a Pinochet apologist and he's gaining votes to become president and there are no words to describe just how angry I am every day over this, but people are still fighting against this. For the people that were slaughtered and tortured and for the people who want to live a better future.
With Carmina, I think her lore would make more sense if her loss was similar to mine and so many other chileans, something that would fill her with the rage and hatred the Entity enjoys so much. Maybe her mother would have been arrested and killed and Carmina wouldn't know where she is, her father would be crushed over the loss and would become an alcoholic to deal with the pain. Maybe Carmina started hiding her pain and anger in order to take care of her family, scared to lose them too, but she would always be a strong and rebellious person so in no time she would become part of the resistance. My uncle was too; he would often sneak at night and scribble words filled of hope and freedom on the walls, accompanied by many others who felt the same. They would "vandalize" the streets and paint beautiful pictures filled with color and joy, his sin of wanting to live free was too grand so they killed him. Maybe Carmina would do the same; in secret, she would paint. She would express her desires and hope she shared with so many scared people, but she would not be afraid. She could be, really brave and hopeful, contrary to the blackness of her crow self. She would be so brave, even foolish. That foolishness of hers would become her biggest mistake. She would be arrested and tortured, yes, but what destroyed her the most would be seeing her father on the same torture room. Thinking about his brother waiting for them to come back, asking her to paint pictures again. She always loved to paint, even with no ink or pencils. The tortures meant nothing to her, but her father wasn't as strong as she was and he would probably die soon after. She would be taken to her prison cell and she would climb to the window to see how her father's body and so many others are being thrown into a pit. Where is her brother? Will she see him again? She knows she wont. Her execution is tomorrow and a strange bird has been singing ever since. A caw.
The crows would be something so strangely comforting to her. They would be something really weird, so out of place but at the same time so familiar. But the crows eating her dad's corpse would end up making her lose it, seeing how her actions destroyed what she loved the most. If her family was gone, what else was she supposed to look forward to? She would lose hope, lose her spark and her reason to rebel against the system. But then, a crow flies towards her prison window and extends its neck to her. Its calling her. Something that could sense her deep hatred and misery was calling her. And she, desperate to survive and see her brother again, knows what she has to do. She's enraged but at the same time hopeful and she answers the call.
TL;DR: kinda better lore? i don't know but i wanted to vent and write a bit. i love carmina anyways, her design is fire. thanks for coming to my ted talk.
i'm going to be honest, reading this made me cry, both the beauty of ur writing for Carmina, but also hearing about the horrors done to u and ur family. i'm glad u felt safe to share the story of ur uncle and family, and hopefully many more families who had to suffer the same also can speak out about what happened to them. also u should be a writer because that made me cry and its great thank u for giving us ur ted talk
@@cecilbenderman6240 my condolences for you and your family, man. To think there are people who still follow Pinochet is just sickening.
On the other hand, your version is FANTASTIC. You established better connections and themes for Carmina than the mess BHVR did, it's very heartbreaking and political for the right reasons, and it's coherent rather than being many ideas stitched together at the last second like FNAF.
I love how theses videos are turning into mini history lessons. Great video as always
Thanks! Although I'm not sure this video qualifies as a "mini" anything :')
Crow imagery in media is wonderful, and I just want to pet all the animals. Precious little birds. Honestly? This character's aesthetic and theme is fucking amazing, but I feel like her and Jonah's lore dropped the ball they had rolling with the really good stories.
i mean i get that her lore is not really good but man Jonah's lore is great
'She is both their master, and their slave'
Actually Carmina's relationship with the crows.
"She their queen and their slave"
Darkest dungeon!
@@trap631 ah fuck! Ur right, havent played the game, but just remembered it out of the blue!
Wow, I really didn’t expect you to go this in-depth with Chile‘s history! Great work as always, especially with the interview. Sadly, I feel the same about the artist. Her story just fails because of lack of detail, be it by avoiding political topics or simply bad writing, while trying to tell a really complex story. I don’t need to go any further on why this can’t work.
Personally, if I were on the writing team, I would’ve tried to tie Matias’s fate to the Pinochet regime rather than a simple isolated tragedy that Carmina suffers. I feel like that would’ve made Matias a much more relevant character by making his fate the emotional core of Carmina’s story, and would’ve served as the impetus for Carmina to take a stand against Pinochet’s tyranny, as her little brother would’ve been one of many children who were taken from their families and disappeared, or possibly even jailed and tortured. I think that would’ve made the story flow better overall, and would’ve established just how cruel and oppressive the regime really was while also giving us a reason to root for Carmina.
I hope that a future Tome could do more for her story in terms of not only exploring the actions she took against the Pinochet regime, but also exploring who her character is in general. There is a lot of potential for Carmina to be a compelling revolutionary heroine who fell from grace, but the writers were afraid to go that extra mile with her release lore. And that makes me sad because as much as I like her character, as her story stands right now, it’s just torture porn when she’s supposed to be a freedom fighter.
The House of Arkham, Log 2. Turns out Matias WAS killed by the Pinochet regime.
@@Dreigonix Man, they need to give her a full tome that recaps all the House of Arkham stuff. Maybe even have her beat herself up over Maria’s, only to realise it was the government after all. With new found hope, they could actually give her a personality and emotional stakes, as The Black Vale become increasingly frustrated with her tampering with their plans.
@@penguinproductions8829 True!
Wait wait wait: the CIA, the organization Jonah Vasquez came from, was behind Pinochet, the inspiration for Carmina's main opponent. That's the biggest brain connection between the killer and survivor yet.
Also, I'm not too attached to Jonah's lore...but I'm unreasonably stoked that we got a mathematician survivor! I feel a personal connection to this guy!! Granted his perks aren't my favorite so I don't see myself buying him but I'd legitimately die for anyone playing him lol.
Wait, the CIA made the Invader Zim guy?
The CIA is notorious for staging fascist coups in socialist countries. It was 50% red scare tactics and 50% creating vassal states that the US government could milk for profit
@@EldritchVelvet plus the CIA fucking over Latin American countries is like a hobby for them
Yeah its much more well known now that the US or their CIA specifically, is notorious for taking down socialist countries, alarmingly a good number of governments toppled were even democratically elected countries like in the middle east and in asia, if it didn't want to play ball with the US on their terms. These behind the curtain of proxy wars were very common in the 20th century as both the US and the USSR tried to gain global influence.
but toppling latin american governments is probably just another friday for the cia, with how common and how quickly one puppet is replaced with another. being in relatively closer to them probably played a big part of them doing running amok down there, kinda like how the ussr influenced with regions closer to them.
@@Pawg_Alf yep. look up “operación cóndor”. united states was VERY involved with latinamerican dictatorships.
I'm really conflicted on her. Her were-crow design is fucking cool! She's powerful, scary, and she's solidified as a servant of the Entity with the Entity's messenger animal. But...
3:35 - Exactly. Her lore, right now, seems like a big mish-mash of ideas that don't really go anywhere. When I first saw the Matias' Baby Shoes add-on, I was REALLY excited. I thought Carmina would be a sort of adoption of a La Lleurona kind of monster; a Killer opposite someone like Huntress (who knows the warmth of a mother but doesn't understand how to be one) or the Twins (Charlotte protected Victor no matter what in place of their mother), who ended up killing her baby in an act of desperation or fury, and regretted it. DBD seems to have a huge hard-on for abusive father backstories, and mothers just aren't allowed to be evil. Carmina's mom left, but we can assume it was to get away from Carmina's shitty dad. Alternatively, Carmina could have found her new life's purpose in service to the Entity after it saved her life, like a more personal Plague story. Neither seem to be the case here. :(
It feels like the Hag all over again where we don't know anything about Carmina as a person, and her Killer form is some feral creature because oooh it's scary. Carmina's story seems to suggest she was chosen by the Entity for a special reason, as the crows followed her for all her life. But what is it? We don't see much of Carmina's art, we don't know what really inspired her to make political artworks either that could and did result in her death, and at worst, she's yet another female character presently defined by some horrific bodily torture, just like Hag and Spirit. Why does the Entity think she's so special? Why did it decide to basically twist her into a feral were-crow? If she has a brave and resilient soul, why wasn't she chosen to be a survivor instead? Carmina getting this half-assed, vague story when she's based off an incredible man like Jara is laughable right now.
I hope time will iron out the details. As is, Carmina is beautiful, but boring. Really appreciate the extra research you did for this one.
4:55 - This is actually the only part of the story I think they did right. The crows aren't natural crows after all, they're the Entity. IIRC, it isn't specifically mentioned if others can even see the crows or not. The idea of them being illusions or all in her head until the night of her death is pretty cool.
I hope they do that sort of thing where she’s like a mother in the tome. Maybe to the crows after they saved her but then the crows are killed causing some art or something? I dont know but her design is so outside the box with her hand being both solid and rigid but flexible and liquid at the same time. I hope her time does her justice when it comes.
This is one of your best dives yet. The interview was so important to hear. Thank you.
I love how I can just watch this instead of pay attention in class
Hopefully you'll be learning something here too!
I adore her design a ton, but I agree 100% that her lore leaves a lot to be desired. There’s so much they could’ve touched upon to make her a better-rounded character, especially as a revolutionary using her art to depict the dictatorship she was under. It’s just such a shame that we got such an incredible character design with a really cool power, only for it to be balanced out with weaker lore that *had* the potential to be something as remarkable as Plague’s.
im not gonna give up full hope on it till her tome comes out
if her tome comes out and doesnt fix her lore then yes i will agree her lore sucks
I feel like they were just trying to do too much with her story. Sad childhood, daddy issues, several tragic deaths, a personal vendetta against the powers that be, but yet you're telling me even with this super hero complex she's this humble artist? I love her design and powers though. She's probably one of the most unique killers in the game and I'm definitely playing as her upon release.
Why is the map set during the day.
The game is "Dead By Daylight".
I see alive people in daylight.
False advertising.
Also damn the conversation with Sergio shows just how dedicated you are to this. Love it, man.
Yea Dead by *Daylight*
Incredible interview! The in-depth historical lesson wasn't what I was expecting when I clicked on the video, but I'm so glad I watched it.
i love how this new killer sparked so much interest in the history of my country, its also topical because right now we are on one of the most important elections between Boric who wants society to move foward in change and Kast who wants everything militar and conformist (also he wants to stop the new constitution)
As a Chilean, I love being represented by the artist, but I was kinda disappointed with her backstory. It lacked so much detail and so much emotion. I love you put so much effort in this video for the people of Chile. Thank you❤️
I'm curious. What would your opinion be on just stripping the name of the Black Veil from the story and leaving just a shadowy organization controlling the government that readers could fill in for themselves. This way, for those who the wounds are still too fresh could put the Black Veil back but everyone else would be free to fill in exactly who it is and it might even inspire some people to do their own research into the country's past.
That would have been a super elegant way of doing things! Kind of having it both ways and up to interpretation!
The latest tome fixed her lore completely. The House of Arkham, Log 2: The Crows. Makes the things that happened to her a lot more cohesive-- turns out Matias WAS killed by the Pinochet regime and made to look like an accident-- and goes into more detail on the things she did to fight the regime. She started a whole-ass MOVEMENT. We need a video revisiting her lore after this, because I loved her to begin with, but the extra info totally irons out the few flaws that were there.
Don't worry, I noticed
I appreciate it when content creators aren’t afraid to get serious with their information. Sadly, the DBD didn’t hold out, but I appreciate how you always have told us the dark realities behind them. This video is a shining moment of the research that goes into creating something fictional while still respecting its real-life source material.
I don’t think you’ll ever read this, but I have to let you know that (while I have no personal connection to the events) I greatly appreciate you pushing the extra mile. The hour-long video is worth it for the research so you and the viewer could understand.
Thank you, Cameron and Sergio! And thank YOU for putting the work into this one. The care shows and is appreciated
I don't even play DBD. This video came up on my reccs while falling down a video game lore rabbit hole and the respect you treated the subject matter is amazing. I'm now a subscriber.
Oh don't worry, it all goes downhill from here ;)
I really hope her Tome fleshes out Vack Label *shudders* as not only the Black Vale, but perhaps a part of the Pinochet regime so they fit within the historical context, as well as giving her more of an active role in her own story. She and the history both deserve more respect than what the base story has put out so far.
And I think you should be the one to write it, Pixel. The fact that you've made such a long video devoted to her lore and historical context surrounding it, even to the point of interviewing an actual Survivor of the regime, shows that you would be a better story writer than anyone at Behavior right now. The fact that you're not head of their writing department is a crime. An excellent video as always, my good man.
i do hope they keep the concept of the artist spirit breaking while being tortured when compared to the irl guy she was based off of who spirit never broke even as he was being executed
The love you have for this game and it’s story is so obvious and powerful; not many who claim to love a game would criticize it as you do. Thank you so much for the excellent work as always!
I really appreciate all the research you did for this video, and that you interviewed someone who lived in Chile during Pinochet's regime for it. There are many things about the Artist that I think could ( and should ) be improved, but she still feels like a big step in a good direction!
Even tho I don't like modern history, I, as a historian, am overjoyed to see that a lot of Dbd characters have historic roots. Historic characters are just the most interesting.
Edit: I don't know anytging about the History of Chile, but as an East German with a family who has lived in a socialist regime for a long time, a lot of ehat Sergio (I hooe that was his name) said resonated with me and I recognized a lot of aspects in his stories that also appeared in my parents' stories.
I am so overwhelmed and glad that you put so much effort and research into this. Historical topics, especially non - European historical topics are not explained and explored throughoutly enough by the media and often times the witnesses find no platform to speak out. You gave him a platform and he spoke to us, educated us and told his story, something we probably wouldn't have had access to. The craziest part: all of this over a videogame and lore. Kinda proves the point of the Clown Tome - stories inspire us, fiction or not they teach us and change us. So, thank you for that. Thank you for your time and effort. And thank you to Sergio (again, I hope, pls correct me if I'm wrong) for twlling his story. 🙏🏻
Murdoc
literally she’s my favorite because we’re from the same country and her power is so cool
I had never heard of Victor Jara before so I paused the video to go listen to his music and I’ve now heard manifiesto about five times on repeat and after translating the lyrics… I’m not okay, I’m crying real hard
38:30 the crazy part is, even after the Chilean tyranny fell, the lies and misdirection continue to this day. I am American (unfortunately) and was raised in the American school system, and I genuinely thought until like 5 minutes ago that communist Chile was a horrible dictatorship. Granted, I haven’t really done any research beyond what was taught it school, but after a full 12 years of school, I still had no clue about basically anything that happened in the late 20th century in Chile other than the vague notion that it used to be a communist dictatorship. I’m sure it was far from perfect, but to paint pre coup Chile as an oppressive regime and not once mention the actual dystopian rule that followed it is dangerously, and imo purposefully, negligent
Ayyye, my favorite lore guy uploaded! I was definitely waiting on this one.
I'll be honest with you, I personally wasn't really impressed with Carmina's lore. To me, it sounded like a character I would make up in 5th grade. However, I wanted to see other opinions on it.
I love the extra research you did, and bringing justice to Victor Jara's story. Carmina shouldve been flushed out, and they shouldve told the actual story. Politics, war, murder, ect. Is not pretty, and i hate when studios play it safe, instead of showing how ugly humans can really be to one another.
Yeah, I definitely see the problem BHVR has written themselves into with the Black Vale. Now that they have a millenium-spanning shadowy Lovecraftian Cult, they feel like they need to use it all the time.
Wow this was a very informed and well-researched video that offers a fair critique and provides plenty of historical context. Now I wanna find out more about Victor Jara.
As a chilean i feel very proud of how much effort they put on Carmina taking of some issues on the story it's facinating finally seeing My country being representad on the medias
I really love the Artist.
In both lore and design.
I can't wait to play her.
(Edit: After watching the video, I do think Pixel Bush brought up a lot of good points about the flaws in Carmina's Lore)
Kudos to Pixel Bush for his first ever interview in a Lore Deep Dive.
I learned a lot thanks to you and Sergio.
I find it really interesting that the survivor paired with the Artist in this chapter, is from the CIA.
The Artist's greatest enemy/rival in the trials is someone from the CIA.
Bravo BHVR. That's actually brilliant.
Looking forward to the next Lore Deep Dive.
Will she be released tommorrow ?
@@codelion3496 Yep :)
Trickster got upstaged by a hamster. I'm never gonna get over that XD
She has to be one of the most unique looking killers in the whole roster.
I'm glad you did this for such an amazing character it is almost offensive how little we get from her story for someone who represents people who suffered through such a tragedy its sad. I feel they could of handled this so much better had they not just gave up halfway. I am also heavily impressed you were able to get someone who went through the experience carmina is based on it's so rare to see people who go through things like the Pinochet regime or any other dark era of human ethics. hopefully behavior sees this and realizes that someone tied so closely to such a dark experience for the inspiration they shouldnt half ass it. it does a disservice to carmina the person she was inspired by and the people who lived the horrors of the Pinochet regime.
okay this was a great video, you went exactly as many miles as this story deserved by interviewing a survivor and treated it with a lot of respect. great job on this one
They could've made Jonah into a puppet master pulling the strings type killer with a similar to Carminas power with different visuals and made Carmina the survivor as homage to Victor Jara, would've made much more sense I feel
As a now almost 30 year old 1st Gen American to Chilean parents I'm FUMING that this is the 1st time I've ever heard of Victor Jara! Granted, maybe that makes sense since my mom would only ever mention 2 things about Pinochet. Apparently, according to her, kids always had an education (not talking college) and the elderly always had medicine. Time for some more talks and homework on my end. Thank you for this amazing video and interview my man!
Incredible video. I'm not from Chile but I'm South American so I know a fair bunch of that happened on this side of the earth around those times, it was very amazing to see you do so much research about it to make sense of Carmina's lore. I hope behaviour improves her story later, I really want that but figures like Pinochet are to this day very polarizing, so like you said it's a very touchy subject, but I would love for it to be touched regardless, or at least improved enough to have clear hints of what happened in real life.
How bad must the world be if “a fascist dictator was bad” is a controversial thing to say? Granted, I’m not a Chilean nor do I know that much about what happened during that time, but it just seems like this was a risk that BHVR could’ve afforded to take.
Sorry I know I'm late, I'm not Chilean either but I know Chileans. Chile had elections not long ago and one of the candidates said that Pinochet wasn't a dictator and he basically defends what happened back then, sooo yeah, believe it or not saying "a fascist dictator was bad" is pretty controversial because there is people that don't see him as a dictator or a fascist.
PBE: just like a bird digging a hole
Me: birds live in trees dummy, they don't dig holes
PBE: cuts directly to a parrot digging its hole
the problem with the lore is i had NO IDEA what kind of regime Chili had from reading it. if i'd assumed Fascist, Communistic, religious fundamentalist, a cruel Monarchy or anything else, the story would have read exactly the same.....
I think it’s cool that you interviewed someone who went through 1970s Chile
I've been subscribed for a while now, and I've always appreciated the effort and level of care you put into videos. But this has really blown me away. Seriously, hats off for an *amazing* job on this one!
This is so incredibly well made! I’m only at the beginning of the interview portion, and I’ve only just realized this video is nearly an hour long! Can’t wait!!
As a history buff this has got to be hands down your best video yet pixel. got quite emotional from this one.
Thanks to Sergio for that interview! I learned a lot from you guys here. I think it's important to tell the stories of these atrocities that are still in living people's memories and still have consequences to this day. I think it was ambitious of BHVR to tackle the narrative of a Chilean revolutionary artist. Not only is it a compelling narrative, it presents the opportunity to educate people on Pinochet's dictatorship. But DBD is not only art but also a product, and we know how much Capital-G Gamers hate "political" content that they can't comfortably block out. For the purposes of selling the cool crow lady DLC, I can see why they would not get too specific about Carmina's politics and the regime she was fighting against. And that sucks! I just have a gut feeling that the creatives at BHVR wanted to say something with Carmina's story, maybe something a little edgier and more subversive. And they're just held back by the modern gaming industry, always sanding things down to make them a "safer" sell. But I am glad they made that attempt at least because I learned something about Chile that I might not have otherwise. And like you, I hope they expand on Carmina's story. Because there's so much potential there.
Amazing and comprehensive video, the only grip I have is that your guests audio quality is a little lacking, and with the light accent I can't fully make out everything he said. Some captions would be appreciated, but either way I really enjoyed it
I feel like a lot of the new characters have subdued and almost unfinished lore on release because of the tomes, like they won’t put a full and complete story in their bios because then they don’t have a clear direction to go for their lore
As an American I am deeply ashamed of my government's meddling in countries like Chile during the Cold War. It didn't matter how horrible the faction was. As long as it was anti-communist, the US would back it. We're all for freedom, until the freedom of another conflicts with our own interests. This is not what the US Constitution stands for. And with our awful 2 party system, as a voter I feel almost helpless to make a real difference.
Agreed I feel the same way come the election later this year we need change no if and or but
This was incredible work. It's insane the stuff Americans don't learn about in school because the history exists outside of North America, Europe, and Asia. I'm glad that this video gave a bit of a history lesson to what's outside of the US's "world." In regard to the Artist, OMG if they would write her story based around everything her character represents, that would be a massive opportunity to give many people a huge history lesson, just like this video did, to anyone who plays DBD. Fingers crossed that Carmina gets the Plague tome writer over the Pig tome writer because her character is very good, but I'd be so disappointed if she gets handled improperly again 🤞🏻🤞🏻🤞🏻.
They didn’t need to make up a villainous organization for Carmina to go against. It’d be like if a movie tried to replace Hitler in WWII with the Red Skull……..wait.
If you actually read the comics and in the movie too, hitler and red skull are related somehow and hydra is actually a wing of the nazi party. So there is lot that are related.
I wish all content creators cared as much as you do, every video is somehow better than the last and I get so excited when I see you’ve uploaded. Good job man, this was phenomenal
This is the first video about the new chapter's lore that's got me not only completely mesmerized, but also really thinking about the killer as a whole. Amazing work!
i usualy do not watch ur videos, i just listen to them while playing some random game and here i was hunting some tobi-kadashis in monster hunter when out of no where im on my 4 monster of the day and the video is still running. Man u made an 1hour video about this woman?! thats what i subscribed for, man i luv u so much
You put so much effort into your work! Such great content! So much content on the internet and TH-cam is such low effort garbage, it’s so refreshing to see people actually care and try.
@5:00 There is a mythical creature in Chile called the tuetue its some kind of witch that can turn his head into a bird to gain access to secret places
Part of me wants to think that BHVR using the Black Vale instead of the true evils involve in real world Chile at the time is their attempt at not trying to "glorify" the horrors of that regime, or risk the backlash of turning a victim of that regime into a monstrous killer. By using the Black Vale, DBD's version of Assassin's Creed's Abstergo, they are more or less using snippets of history without risking too much backlash by recreating or portraying the true history is a way that could piss off one side or the other. It's more or less all they really could do since so far none of the Killers have had too much connect to real world issues sans The Wraith's Tome; and even then leans more into historical fiction by not outright naming the side the soldiers of fortune are on, or mixing elements of different tribes into Phillip's lineage. At least, that's just one person's hot take on the whole thing.
Was it safe and lazy, maybe. But some people play games to get away from how shitty the real world can be and don't need to reminded of it. As someone who enjoys lore like you do, and enjoys watching your deep dive; personally I prefer to find out about the politics and historical connections after the fact rather than in the game, because I prefer to see the inspirations put into the final product, rather than seeing real history likely taken out of context and turning something meant to be fun into a statement.
Some games can get away with it; but I personally don't think DBD could. If you do, that's fine. We can just agree to disagree and continue to enjoy the game for what it is.
your videos are next level
Carmina honestly reminds me of Elizabeth Comstock. Amazing design, perfect set-up for an interesting and compelling character, and an absolute travesty of a story. BUT, where Carmina differs from Elizabeth is my ability to make sense of her story. I can’t exactly justify Elizabeth selling a child in Bioshock’s Burial at Sea, but I can explain Carmina’s mindless death fest.
Her tragedy of a life was the Entity’s first foray into trying to farm emotion without the need of the Trials. The Entity was responsible for Carmina’s mother leaving, and for her father blaming everything on her. The Entity was the one who killed Mathias, and also sent Her servants, the crows, to protect Carmina and give her hope, just as She had done by whispering to the Plague. She did this as Carmina was about to kill herself because the Entity cannot take the dead, She can only take the living- She took characters like Amanda, Adam, Rin, and Kazan right before they died, because if She had waited even a moment longer, she would have lost them. She bade the crows follow Carmina and protect her so that She didn’t lose her latest experiment. The Entity was the responsible for every single tragedy in Carmina’s life because She wanted to experiment, She wanted to feed off of Carmina’s emotion outside of a trial just to see if She could. After seeing how much She had thoroughly broken Carmina, almost to the point of being useless as a Killer, She decided that the experiment was a failure, and to continue having only minimal contact with Her Survivors and Killers as they were being cultivated.
I was unaware of the sheer political nightmare behind Carmina’s story, and I thank you and Sergio for enlightening me! There are so many things they could have done with Carmina, but as much as I love her, she is a travesty. Thank you for yet another captivating video!
Holy cow, had they said, even off handed one wrong thing... I would have long been arrested because I, as an American who relies on Freedom of Speech, runs my mouth all the time.
I cannot imagine surviving such a regime and have mad respect for those who do.
The intelligence of corvids shouldn’t be underestimated. They’re actually one of the smartest animals in the world but their intelligence is often ignored by most people. That’s why I personally like crows.
Also I want to point out that crows aren’t in South America, but crows have been kept as pets and zoo animals in a few South American countries. It’s possible that was the source of crows in Camina’s bio.
this video is underrated asf, amazing job!
This was brilliant. The man you spoke to really has an incredible story, was kinda blown away by the secret service guy training with them.
Replace Hitler with skeletor..... Marvel who exactly is Red Skull?
You would think Quinten Tarantino was making these killers with all the feet they show off.
I was surprised that there was a reference to the death of Víctor Jara (Chilean singer-songwriter) in the story of this murderer.
Damn I think with these interviews your channel is gonna grow very much very good that’s awesome and your a good person dude
like the trickster, this killer needs their own tome, i dont know how they could pull it off, but it needs one
I also feel like the artist is the closest to being a killing in total service to the entity, not by choice but by control through the crows
I hope they'll make something about Carmina sending a murder of crows from within the fog to punish those in normal world and deliver her last portrait for the people
I am absolutely in awe of people who can play the same game for years and years amd years - the closest I can get are MUDs, and perhaps, WoW - SWG vanilla as well.
It is SO amazing to me that there are so, so many people diving into games with thousands of NPCs... and I love that there are people, such as you, who are so invested in this games relatively few characters!
It goes to show that a few well written characters can make a world just as, if not more, compelling than one with thousands.❤
No one is going to read this though, because I am one of the countless thousand 😅
cameron gives me victor van dort vibes. also this video is very funky, i love the amount of real world history it goes over. as for carmina... i just lover her so much she's great
Shit a 50 minute long video we eating good tonight
Getting an interview is such an interesting and impressive feat for this video! Thanks taking the content you cover so serious!
This is incredible! The knowledge I’ve got from this topic has been well worth the Patron subscription!
Brilliant work mate! Always love these videos.
Okay, I have a vague idea for a killer, and I very much would like it if you gave a review so I could tweak and change it to make it a better concept for a killer.
A gravedigger, but those buried come back. The Gravedigger fights them off by finding put that removing their stomachs and hearts (for those who still have them). However, with the flu pandemic breaking out, and funerals becoming outlawed, he now has full access to the bodies *before* they get buried. He sells the stomachs and hearts of the dead on the black market, and uses his money to buy a custom built shovel that has blades on the sides (think what a shovel normally is, but the sides of the main blade are also built for cutting). With some extra money, he looks into research on spells, curses, and *hexes* in an attempt to banish the zombies once and for all, but only seemed to weaken them.
Quick side note here: The Gravediggers ability is applying unique status affects to all survivors. I wanted a killer that wasn't another one who's oppressive in the 1v1, and is instead good in the 4v1.
Not even five minutes in and bam, you hit the nail on the head with the biggest crux of her lore. I want to like Carmina, but she just falls apart when you ask just one simple question: "why is she a Killer?"
She was pushed over the edge by the bad people around her. Wasn’t her fault or the stories fault. Realistically that’s just how life is. Bad shit happens to good people, and bad people do the bad shit. It’s quite simple and also why I like carmines unique lore. She gets no advantage or upcoming when transferring herself over to the entity. She still feels loss and sorrow more so than blood thirsty. She doesn’t want to serve the entity like a god with false hope like plague does, she doesn’t have vengefulness like spirit does, she had nothing to live for like the twins do. Her family died, her work was destroyed by the men, her friends and her were also going to be murdered. She literally had nothing left and thought hey, I have nothing to lose I’ll just become the artist all the while she just feels sad and hopeless in the trials. Killing doesn’t satisfy her in anyway like it does spirit or pyramid head etc
I felt the same way when I read her lore, Pixel. I thought it was incomplete or that somebody forgot to put the rest of her lore, but no! That was it.
Hoh this also links up to Jonah being CIA a lot more as well.
at this point i think carmina is clearly based off victor jara. when victor was getting tortured to death, they broke his hands and told him “how are you gonna play guitar now?”
i’m chilean, my dad was like 21 when el golpe de estado happened. he’s a lawyer that protested against pinochet, got arrested for it and luckily, he didn’t get killed. but a lot of people did, and it’s awful. even to this day, pinochet is a polarizing figure despite him being a literal dictator. kast (who ran for president in 2021) negated the existence of tortures and thinks he did nothing wrong.
i know a lot of people suffered with allende, like that’s a fact too, and i don’t think he was great either, but between these two shitty men, nothing excuses what pinochet did and the amount of pain he caused.
Incredible job again. I can't believe you got that interview like that it really spices up these videos when you change things up. Great leg work done again you spare nothing and put in all the work to make us happy!
Her backstory really is a 13 year old's edgy OC. Everything just happens TO her, with her directing none of the events that happen to her. It was so edgy and underwhelming, despite their obvious attempt to make the Saddest Character Ever TM story. Like why was the entity even interested in her.
The interview was a lovely addition! One of your best videos yet. Keep it up! Thank you Sergio for sharing.
I can understand being annoyed by the lack of details regarding 70s Chile in her backstory. However, inspirations don't have to be wholesale copies. If you make a fantasy story about a group of abnormally short people and one tall wizard carrying a cursed ring across a country to destroy it, no one would say you were inspired by Lord of the Rings, just that you copied it completely. If they just wrote an essay on Chilean politics in the 70s, I highly doubt there would be much interest aside from people who enjoy history essays.
Also, you keep saying that Carmina has a lack of agency. Isn't that the point? She grew up as an artist in a political climate that actively suppressed self expression, so of course she wouldn't have much agency. When she does find her agency with the mural, it leads to her torture and undoing due to the Vack Label having all the power and control. This theme is then finally mirrored once more by her losing herself to the crows and becoming the killer she is today. I agree that a freedom fighter suddenly killing innocent survivors isn't all too in character, but if my hands and tongue were cut off while watching my friends get slowly killed by birds, I'd probably lose my sense of self and sanity as well.
The Artist's story, to me, is a dark reflection of Chilean history. Instead of the CIA controlling the behind the scenes, its the Black Vale. Instead of a a musician and poet becoming a martyr for a good cause, a painter becomes swallowed up by the evil she was trying to combat.
I'm wondering why she ended up being a killer. Like at least with Plague we can believe the Entity just deceived her into believing it's her god but Carmina was a benevolent political activist, why's SHE a killer? Her lore is not my favorite by a long shot, it feels kinda cheesy how unwaveringly tragic it is. Like....this just doesn't happen. If they drew attention to crows being unnatural, and thus actually being servants of the Entity manipulating all the events of her life (better yet, allude to a crow luring Matthias to his death), that MIGHT save it for me.
On the plus side tho, the map is AWESOME!! I took like 70 screenshots of it as Wraith to get reference pics for drawing it. The building is EPIC, the ink rising out of the ground is awesome, the mausoleums are beautiful, and that arch with the floating blocks is just MWAH!! I was originally annoyed that we didn't get a new map in months but if the devs need months to create maps as good as this one, they should DO IT. Make a neon map for Trickster next pleeeeeeeease!!
The Entity is probably just dangling a carrot infront of her. Something like "kill for me and I'll let your brother/friends come back that you blame yourself for them dying in the first place"
Ah yes, the Back Label, one of the most subtle villain companies along with Dooferschmitz Evil and Associates and Villains R 'Us.
the interview is the coolest goddamn thing you've done
I love what you do, your videos get me through the school day. Just waiting for the 1 and a half hour long video on a deep dive about what ever you want
Thank you so much for putting out this video! As an American with little to no education about the outside world during compulsory education, I learned something I otherwise never would have know about on my own. This was a fun, but more importantly informative video! Keep up the amazing work!
Country: Socialism is goo-
The US: So you have chosen fog?
I only have respect for you , you went so deep to interview a survivor? Amazing!