I'm finally thinking about deepstrike screening all the time in my games, and do so effectively, but I haven't really got to grips with movement blocking yet. I think thats because I haven't really considered any unit as sacrificial or ablative yet, probably a change of mindset required. The deepstrike screening thing is huge though, I've played my nids a few times with no deepstrike threats and it means the opponent is able to deploy their entire army optimally for scoring points / killing units rather than wasting a few on screening - this is a huge advantage! So, I'd say its always worth having a deep strike threat for the screening cost in places on the opponent.
Awesome - It's a real game changer isn't it!? And yeah having something in reserves is so useful. Even if not threatening damage and using them to get secondaries like engage on all fronts or investigate signals. Everything is sacrificial! Wow, I'm so heartless.... maybe it's cos my first army was imperial guard 😂
The fall-back to bait a charge into firing lanes is good in concept. The issue is that a unit which starts the charge out of LOS and ends it in a firing line, the charging unit is going to be in engagement range and therefore not eligible to be shot or overwatched (excluding BGNT). As overwatch happens at the start OR end of the movement, the target isn't an eligible one.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The crux of the point was about us falling back to open up the enemy to be shot at in the shooting phase, not with overwatch (as yes, you're right). Sending a chaff unit up to score/take ground can also be useful as bait. If it's charged in subsequent turns then it is not unlikely that the enemy unit that charged is now out of position/exposed, allowing us to get an angle with something else when it comes back round to our shooting phase. (VS if they hadn't charged and hid behind terrain, for example).
Thank you! A few people have recommended that. I am trying to keep things as simple as possible so i can focus more on the content and not have to invest too much time in creating visuals. Still thinking of the best way to achieve this
So as a TO, how would you have handled this sitch: one of my teammates at LVO was dropping straight hundies. His game six he asked if he could be seen if opponent moved. Double checked and opponent confirmed. When opponent’s turn came, he said he could see/shoot him. Total gotcha. Called a judge over and judge said “whelp I wasn’t here before and you can see him now” my teammate picked up his models and was like I’m not playing with people like that. Then the opponent proceeded to accuse him of cheating etc etc. LVO judges are total volunteers that messed up rules right and left. Thought Heroic let you fight first etc. Just basic stuff. Anyhow it was a nightmare judges wise, but how would you handle walking up to that sitch?
That sounds less than ideal from an event staffing perspective! Long reply incoming! As for your question it sounds like the judge is walking right into a "my word against their word" scenario. This is obviously tricky to resolve with no other information but the "oh i wasn't here" line is hogwash. Your team mate is saying 'x' happened and the other player that 'y' happened. Whilst that is tough to get to the bottom of, someone is lying and to have the stones to do this so blatantly they are practiced at it. That would get my alarm bells ringing. First off i would attempt to rule out any misunderstanding between the two and appeal to an amicable resolution that shows both players playing to intent. If it was an innocent mistake with the other guy that is their window to be ah okay yeah it makes sense buddy u are not visible my bad. (If it was that in the first place it is unlikely i need to be called over but i always try to give the benefit of the doubt). If the argument remains then there are some steps i would employ. 1) Ask what happened; most likely separately and away from each other to get an account. Let them speak freely and only question for facts. Take notes if possible. 2) Then i would attempt to seek any eye witness accounts from neighbouring players. I would not ask any leading questions but just simply try to ascertain exactly what was said. 3) Ask the players to recount what happened again, separately. In doing this i would look for inconsistencies in their story and other indications for foul play. I would also speak to other judges if present to see if any other infractions have been reported in previous rounds. All of this builds a picture. With any luck this gives me an indication as to who has lied to me. If i caught anyone cheating in the act like that it would be a red card. (If i heard the player agree then go back on it). But if this situ played out with me doing the above and I don't see it outright but I believe someone is lying to me it would be red card. Granted take this with a bit of salt because it is only a snapshot I have of the example u share and context is real important. Hopefully u see the main takeaways are: 1) seek amicable resolution between the players 2) if it is past that then enforce a ruling. Not overly applicable in this exact situation but often is what i am required to do. 3) as im not happy to apply a ruling without more info (not a simple rules question or debate - someone is clearly cheating) get to the bottom of it. As best as possible. Then enforce a ruling/game state and penalties where applicable. Maintaining a calm yet firm approach to the situation also helps me. For your friend don't let tempers rise- easier said then done if accusations from someone start flying around. If u are innocent my advice to ur mate is stay calm with judge and don't let the cheaters rile u. Sounds like an awful situation and sadly poor organisation leads to more people trying to take advantage. Just a TO seen to be trying to get involved is enough to reduce the likelihood of trying to pull stuff like this. As u say a bunch of chilled volunteers are not always up for dealing with the confrontation sadly.
Feigned retreat is immersion breaking? It is a fairly tried and tested military tactic. Honourable? That is up for debate, I grant you that...certainly not very Orky - haha! A valid tactic? Very much so! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feigned_retreat
![ALLY - OH MY! [ REACTION ] 'Amarin Nitibhon' #ALLY_OHMY #ALLY #allynitibhon #แอลลี่](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/nX9qpHjVfbQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Love this, genuinely feel myself growing as player listening to this.
Thanks, that's awesome to hear!
I'm finally thinking about deepstrike screening all the time in my games, and do so effectively, but I haven't really got to grips with movement blocking yet. I think thats because I haven't really considered any unit as sacrificial or ablative yet, probably a change of mindset required.
The deepstrike screening thing is huge though, I've played my nids a few times with no deepstrike threats and it means the opponent is able to deploy their entire army optimally for scoring points / killing units rather than wasting a few on screening - this is a huge advantage! So, I'd say its always worth having a deep strike threat for the screening cost in places on the opponent.
Awesome - It's a real game changer isn't it!?
And yeah having something in reserves is so useful. Even if not threatening damage and using them to get secondaries like engage on all fronts or investigate signals.
Everything is sacrificial! Wow, I'm so heartless.... maybe it's cos my first army was imperial guard 😂
Feel like I’ve stumbled on a future big channel with you mate, really useful stuff will be recommending to friends
That's really kind, thank you! I'm glad you found it useful.
The fall-back to bait a charge into firing lanes is good in concept. The issue is that a unit which starts the charge out of LOS and ends it in a firing line, the charging unit is going to be in engagement range and therefore not eligible to be shot or overwatched (excluding BGNT). As overwatch happens at the start OR end of the movement, the target isn't an eligible one.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. The crux of the point was about us falling back to open up the enemy to be shot at in the shooting phase, not with overwatch (as yes, you're right). Sending a chaff unit up to score/take ground can also be useful as bait. If it's charged in subsequent turns then it is not unlikely that the enemy unit that charged is now out of position/exposed, allowing us to get an angle with something else when it comes back round to our shooting phase. (VS if they hadn't charged and hid behind terrain, for example).
@@epicflail40ktactics don't be sorry, maybe I misunderstood
Great video, Always a good idea to see if your oppent can deepstike closer than 9 or move an advance. Well worth asking at the start of the game.
Absolutely! Nobody likes an accidental "gotcha"!
Someone should have said this before the LGO finals…
Hahahha!
As a Chaos Knight player I can say you are ALWAYS in my threat range no matter where you are.
As a GSC player, I concur!
this is great! Would love some example diagrams to help too
Thank you! A few people have recommended that. I am trying to keep things as simple as possible so i can focus more on the content and not have to invest too much time in creating visuals. Still thinking of the best way to achieve this
Excellent breakdown! Can't wait to see what's next.
Thanks!
So as a TO, how would you have handled this sitch: one of my teammates at LVO was dropping straight hundies. His game six he asked if he could be seen if opponent moved. Double checked and opponent confirmed. When opponent’s turn came, he said he could see/shoot him. Total gotcha. Called a judge over and judge said “whelp I wasn’t here before and you can see him now” my teammate picked up his models and was like I’m not playing with people like that. Then the opponent proceeded to accuse him of cheating etc etc. LVO judges are total volunteers that messed up rules right and left. Thought Heroic let you fight first etc. Just basic stuff.
Anyhow it was a nightmare judges wise, but how would you handle walking up to that sitch?
That sounds less than ideal from an event staffing perspective!
Long reply incoming!
As for your question it sounds like the judge is walking right into a "my word against their word" scenario.
This is obviously tricky to resolve with no other information but the "oh i wasn't here" line is hogwash. Your team mate is saying 'x' happened and the other player that 'y' happened. Whilst that is tough to get to the bottom of, someone is lying and to have the stones to do this so blatantly they are practiced at it. That would get my alarm bells ringing.
First off i would attempt to rule out any misunderstanding between the two and appeal to an amicable resolution that shows both players playing to intent. If it was an innocent mistake with the other guy that is their window to be ah okay yeah it makes sense buddy u are not visible my bad. (If it was that in the first place it is unlikely i need to be called over but i always try to give the benefit of the doubt).
If the argument remains then there are some steps i would employ.
1) Ask what happened; most likely separately and away from each other to get an account. Let them speak freely and only question for facts. Take notes if possible.
2) Then i would attempt to seek any eye witness accounts from neighbouring players. I would not ask any leading questions but just simply try to ascertain exactly what was said.
3) Ask the players to recount what happened again, separately.
In doing this i would look for inconsistencies in their story and other indications for foul play. I would also speak to other judges if present to see if any other infractions have been reported in previous rounds.
All of this builds a picture.
With any luck this gives me an indication as to who has lied to me. If i caught anyone cheating in the act like that it would be a red card. (If i heard the player agree then go back on it).
But if this situ played out with me doing the above and I don't see it outright but I believe someone is lying to me it would be red card.
Granted take this with a bit of salt because it is only a snapshot I have of the example u share and context is real important.
Hopefully u see the main takeaways are:
1) seek amicable resolution between the players
2) if it is past that then enforce a ruling. Not overly applicable in this exact situation but often is what i am required to do.
3) as im not happy to apply a ruling without more info (not a simple rules question or debate - someone is clearly cheating) get to the bottom of it. As best as possible. Then enforce a ruling/game state and penalties where applicable.
Maintaining a calm yet firm approach to the situation also helps me.
For your friend don't let tempers rise- easier said then done if accusations from someone start flying around. If u are innocent my advice to ur mate is stay calm with judge and don't let the cheaters rile u.
Sounds like an awful situation and sadly poor organisation leads to more people trying to take advantage. Just a TO seen to be trying to get involved is enough to reduce the likelihood of trying to pull stuff like this.
As u say a bunch of chilled volunteers are not always up for dealing with the confrontation sadly.
Incredible - thank you for sharing your experience
Glad you enjoyed it!
point3 😢 immersion breaking?
Feigned retreat is immersion breaking? It is a fairly tried and tested military tactic. Honourable? That is up for debate, I grant you that...certainly not very Orky - haha!
A valid tactic? Very much so!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feigned_retreat