*IMPORTANT UPDATE* Some of you guys have disagreed with the Sword argument. To which, I understand (I still find it true though). However, we also have to keep in mind that Megatron didn't use his Wrecking Ball, or his Spear against Optimus. So it doesn't matter that Optimus didn't use his swords, because Megatron didn't use his other weapons either. Some of you have also wondered why Optimus went from saying "Brother" in TF1, to "Waste of Metal, etc" in TF2. But this provides more evidence that Optimus wasn't holding back in 2007. If he did miss Megatron as a brother, he would have been happy (or some what at least) that Megatron was resurrected! Optimus is just acknowledging his and Megatron's past when they *used* to be brothers. But as I said in the video, that doesn't mean he was holding back as he is literally telling us that he has to kill Megatron. Shout-out to @Kingofmenaces , @OneWithNoFace and @Talon_Productions , for some of the info in this video! Talon’s short about why Optimus did not hold back in 2007 - th-cam.com/users/shortsX9mBKEuCdIQ?si=EOSAbDFRD8hED_bJ
Also the alleys they were fighting in were very tight for Optimus to use his massive swords he would probably need more room and it is clearly not enough room for megatrons chain mace and spear
When people say “holding back” it doesn’t mean he isn’t trying hard, it means he’s not being negligible about his allies, he’s paying attention to what’s around him which ends up with him getting beat
I grew up with the Bayverse and its incarnation of Optimus, so I'm a bit biased when choosing my favorite version of Prime, since the beyverse is a more dark and gritty version of transformers so I not surprised that the bots kill with no mercy since the war has been going on too long for either side to consider mercy as a choice
Quotes of Optimus Prime: • “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.” • “One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall.” • “You Picked the Wrong Planet!” • “Give me your Face!” • “I Rise, You Fall!” • “I am Coming.” • “I’m coming for you!” • “YOU DIE!” • “I WILL KILL YOU!!! • “AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!”
There are some Transformers fans who say that Optimus was ruined from the second film onwards because in the first film he was nice in TF1 and in the other films he was more brutal.
Optimus Prime is a person who holds back a lot in pretty much the entire Transformers omniverse that has Optimus Prime. That is literally one of the many things that makes him Optimus Prime. The Michael Bay variant does hold back, but not very often. A protector does not mean you go all out against an opponent or opposition task. Say, for example, G1 Optimus Prime, specifically the IDW Comics version, if he were to go all out with the power level he is at, would destroy the entire Transformers omniverse, which he can already do. If he or anyone that is enraged and goes all out, they have no control of the power they posses, nor who they are. If he would also give his all, especially an opponent who does not return the same, he risks being exhausted and open for being killed, which seems to be one reason reason for the forest battle. He definitely was not giving his all until he said, "You'll never stop at one...I'll take you all on." He is way more skilled than Megatron, Starscream and Grindor as we saw. They could not touch him at first, even when it was Optimus and Megatron going at it one on one. I'm a self-taught martial artist and some of the martial arts he was displaying, I know. Such as Krav Maga, which he was attacking the weakest points on the body, the joints, and a lot more that he was doing. What was it that Unicorn told Optimus Prime in Armada? "How does engaging a war translate as peace." It literally defines Optimus Prime to bring peace and freedom to everyone. He does have to go all out if he doesn't need to. One human does mean he holds back when that is who he is. The whole thing with Sentinel Prime in Chicago, he definitely was not holding mostly due to rage, and he knows his mentor. Now, calling out someone has nothing to do at all with holding back or cutting loose. Optimus was very fed up with what Sentinel has done and more so with the death of Ironhide. Him shooting Megatron in the chest doesn't have anything to do with holding back or cutting loose. Optimus Prime is an extremely effective killer (this version is the only one that straight up kills pretty much all the time) and combant, and the same goes for Megatron. They know each other very well. There is also a lot of footage from 2007 where there are not any humans present when Optimus and Megatron are fighting in certain areas. Again, One shall stand and one shall fall does not translate as Optimus Prime going all out. It does mean this is his final confrontation with someone, hopefully, and he isn't going to let more live be put on the line. Him letting go of Megatron going through the building is because Megatron is stearing, and Optimus tried to him. There is nothing to do with him trying to prevent any further damage when Megatron is the one who does not care at all for humans. The prequel comics also show that Optimus Prime and Megatron were very close. Swords don't work against Megatron? It's a sword, dude. It is meant to do damage depending on the persons intent. Galvatron grabbed the sword because he knew he didn't have a physical spark to get impalded with since he has that hole there. If swords don't work, as Galvatron put it, that would be many of the things he wouldn't fear. Plus, Optimus Prime's swords are at 9000 degrees C. Megatron pinned Optimus down after he got his right arm cut off. If it didn't work, the sword of judgment shouldn't have done anything to him. Every time Optimus used a sword, it worked against Megatron. In the forest battle, he literally stabbed Megatron in the face, left leg, and his back. Megatron had a reaction to each hit. He also lost his right arm in the Egypt battle. In the prequel comics, Optimus stabbed Megatron in the chest when they were surrounded by hatchlings, and that was Megatron from 2007. Then you have Dark of the Moon. It was an axe, but it was still a blade. You also have again, The Last Knight. This also is the primary Michael Bay Optimus Prime. There are other realities and possibilities of this Optimus Prime doing different things. There is too much here you said that is just not correct.
Thank you it’s about time someone puts this out there. Yes Optimus is a very compassionate being who prefers to work things out peacefully. But that doesn’t mean he won’t fight or even kill to protect himself or his loved ones. The only times he holds back are when in encounters with those who he has a personal history with like Megatron and Sentinel. But like you said he gave both of them a chance to stop what they were doing and end things peacefully but they didn’t listen so Optimus is forced to do what must be done.
I think maybe another reason he didn’t use his energon swords against Megatron is because Megs wasn’t using his mace/flail so Optimus reframed from using his blades as a showing of honour. Something that backs this up is the fact that the only time he is shown using a weapon in that fight is when Megatron decides to whip out his fusion cannon.
@@heisenburger9950 Yep, Bayverse Optimus does what needs to be done no matter the cost. And yeah, it could be argued that Optimus also didn't use his Energon Swords as a sign of honor. But nonetheless, swords don't really work against strong versions of Megatron.
This was actually shown in DOTM as well where Sentinel mocks Optimus that he is incapable of making difficult decisions but he does exactly that in the movie, destroying his own planet to save Earth.
@@shariqhasan6220 I don't think Sentinel was mocking him, I never saw Sentinel as an objectively evil character, he's just doing what's best, perhaps he was just giving Prime a reality check.
I remember from Transformers Armada when Optimas basically admitted to Unicron and Megatron that he loved the taste and sensation of battle just as much as they did but held enough self restraint to not let that drive him it still sets wirh me today
@@thatbiguy8854 Yeah, one thing to think about though. Is Jetpower Optimus was based off of Transformers Armada. So perhaps that trait carries over to the Bayverse... But hey that's just a theory!
I never understood the resentment of Optimus committing brutal finishers on his opponents when most of the time they're highly genocidal maniacs that want to eviscerate earths life for cybertron
A theory out there is that after he got killed in TF2, once he got resurrected he became much more brutal so that he doesn’t get bested, and so that the people he’s protecting aren’t at risk.
6:27 even then, those swords didn't effectively slice through even a weakened megatron. They only merely poke and slice off small chunks of metallic "flesh"
Cause ROTF Megatron is his most durable form. Also swords still obviously work on Megatron it’s just he’s that much of a unit that he can pretty effortlessly tank the hit before either disarming or disposing of it.
@prime_bits yeah. Megatron having really great skill in getting rid of them most of the time, except here. And people say Megatron has no skill and is only a brawler..
@@TomfooleryBuster Yep, there is even a shot of the background near the time of Blackouts death (or near death's experience) where we can see Optimus and Megatron fighting. And Megatron is actually spinning around and outmaneuvering, as well as out-skilling Prime.
@@prime_bits ROTF Megatron is just not used to his newly formed body, but he could actually take a hard beating from Prime with just a few chunks of metal spewing out of him.
I always never understood the hatred towards Bayverse Prime for killing his enemies. It's the argument with Batman on why he should take out the Joker for constantly killing humans. Megatron is openly stating that he is gonna commit mass genocide twice of Planet Earth and then enslave them in DOTM so you'd think that Optimus putting Megatron down whenever he could would be accepted more positively. The movies aren't like the OG TV show where practically no humans get hurt and the tone is more light hearted until the movie. Where in that when Megatron threatens Earth in a more substantial way along with killing Optimus's friends. To which Optimus himself says that Megatron must be stopped implying that he was gonna put Megatron into Stasis permanently if it wasn't for Hot Rod.
I would say theres a difference in combat. Ive never seen anyone say hes holding back, but I will say hes def in different forms of combat in each of these fights. With megatron in tf1 this is a chance to talk or even the odds for the the cube, so its a tug of war against two opposing forces rather than a duel between two adversaries. In tf2 that was a straight kill in the end for both megatron and the fallen. tf3 is no different, its a mercy fight. If he wins he spares sentinel, if sentinel wins he dies, but since he saw how willing sentinel was to destroy him. he took every chance to put him down. Thats a major reason why he said he betrayed himself. Signifying he has lost his way of being a good being and a leader and most importantly a friend. He would only fight for what is most important in that moment. Hence why hes cautious of humans but determined to see the goal sought through.
Addressing all your points: Optimus realistically would not hold back if he’s protecting the humans since he cares about them, but Optimus also cares about Megatron. Which is why he said “you left me no choice brother”. But in ROTF onwards, he realized his mistake in trying to fix his relationship with Megatron, and the potential lives he would endanger by doing so, and in turn, stopped holding back. Which is why he beat a stronger Megatron, along with the 2 most powerful Decepticons in ROTF Optimus watching out for humans is still him holding back. He has to focus on the big metal robot trying to fight him, whilst not killing humans during the fight. It's more so his mind is conflicted between going all out, and being mindful of his surroundings. And the ROTF universe guidebook says that Optimus rarely gives it his all in fear of collateral damage. The only time Optimus held back was against Megatron in 2007. He did not hold back against any other villain, since only in 2007, were there a lot of humans around. Every other time, it's mainly just been the bots and a sometimes a few humans Optimus called Megatron to him because Megatron legit forced his Autobots to fall back with just feat and killed his first lieutenant, this does not mean he wasn’t holding back, this only means he was trying to keep Megatron's attention from the humans and the Autobots He shot Megatron in the arm, which is why Megatron started spinning, if it was in the chest, he would've got sent backwards, not spinning Megatron did not like humanity. He wanted the Allspark to create an army to eradicate the humans, turning their tech into his new army, then to restore Cybertron and conquer both worlds. Plus he was the Fallen’s student, who genuinely despised humans. And Megatron didn’t harm the humans because Optimus was legit in front of him trying to distract him. If Optimus was not there, Megatron would’ve killed all the humans around him and made an army to wipe out the planet. This line is not proof of Optimus not holding back. It is more so a hyperbolic expression to emphasize the dramatic nature of the battle, as well as being a fan service, for Optimus saying one of his most famous lines. You can argue that it’s him not holding back anymore, but the contextual evidence says otherwise. After the line, Optimus still did not deploy his weapons Swords do in fact work against Megatron. Galvatron had made that hole in his chest because of the Forest battle, and how as soon as Optimus deployed his weapons in ROTF, he slammed Megatron, Starscream and killed Grindor. Megatron knew how skilled and powerful Optimus is with his swords, and wanted to remove them immediately. And Knight Megatron still got his arm sliced off It does not highlight how weak ROTF Megatron is, rather demonstrates how Optimus, in fact, was holding back in 2007. Official sources say Megatron was upgraded in ROTF. So your point is irrelevant here ngl. And Megatron in DOTM had the same torso as ROTF, who had the same Torso as 2007. And his armor was pierced by the energon axe, so it would be pierced by his swords And you are right, Optimus never held back. But that's only after 2007. Once he saw how dangerous the Decepticons can be to the potential of the human race, and how holding back was endangering not only humans, but his own team. That made him realize that holding back was no longer an option Mb for the yap, but overall. Optimus only held back against Megatron in 2007. Every other time, he went all out. Which is why the villains need to get progressively stronger. Narratively, Optimus not holding back anymore means that every new villain he faces needs to get progressively stronger (The Fallen is an outlier since he’s one of the strongest beings) But loved the video brother, keep it up
I explained why Optimus said “You left me no choice brother” in the video. He is literally acknowledging that he has to kill Megatron. And there was actually a scrapped line in DOTM where Optimus says something similar about Sentinel. And Optimus wasn't holding back against Sentinel (I explained that). So just because Optimus said that in 2007, that doesn't mean he was holding back. Like I also said, Bayverse Prime does what needs to be done. Think about it, why would he choose Megatron over Earth? He wouldn't, he even tells us, “They (humans) deserve to choose for themselves!”, Optimus sided with the humans. If then, why would he hold back and risk humanity? Optimus is compassionate, but many call Optimus a psycho in the Bayverse, which I don't think he is, but he is definitely very violent. He killed Bonecrusher brutality earlier in TF1, so he was violent the whole series. Optimus almost steps on some humans in TF1, I showed that. Which proves that unless humans are in imminent danger, they don't bother him. Optimus wasn’t holding back in 2007, I explained that. The humans didn't affect Optimus and he was going for the kill, he says “You left me no choice brother” telling us that Megatron left him no choice but to fight and try to kill him. He called Megatron down to fight him. Optimus wasn't there when all the Autobots retreated, he also wasn't there when Jazz died. Optimus didn't even know Megatron killed Jazz. He says “Oh, Jazz, we lost a great comrade…”, signaling he didn't know Jazz died. He shot Megatron in the left side of Megatron’s chest kind of by his shoulder. You can see that in slow-mo. Megatron spun around to reduce the shot's momentum, that is why he didn't fly backward. He re-dierected the momentum. Yes, very true, Megatron didn't like humanity. My point was that Megatron was not too interested in out-right harming humans during the fight. Obviously, that was his grand plan, but he was more focused on The AllSpark and Optimus. So you are right, Optimus (and The AllSpark) was distracting Megatron from harming the humans. Also further proving that Optimus wasn’t holding back because that would cause more humans to get hurt. Literally everytime Optimus has ever said “One shall stand, one shall fall”, that means Optimus is not holding back. The odds that that is not true here are severe. In some of the alternate versions of The Forest Battle in TF2, they actually have Megatron dominating Optimus just like in 2007. That is also why sources say that ROTF Megatron is stronger, as they were based on those versions of The Forest Battle. Because clearly they are not accurate to the final film. (I have also made a video explaining why ROTF Megatron is weaker than 2007 Megatron) There is a tremendous amount of evidence showing that Optimus was not holding back in 2007. So the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work. In fact, Optimus’s 1st instinct in TF2 was actually to brawl Megatron. Optimus didn't pull out his Swords untill he started trash-talking Megatron. And still, everytime Optimus tried to use a Sword against Megatron, Megatron countered it easily. Showing that Swords aren’t effective against him. Again, that also highlights how weak Megatron was in TF2, as that is the only time Swords worked against him. Optimus never held back the entire Bayverse. He already knows how destructive the Decepticons were. They led to the downfall of his world and killed a lot of his friends. I'm glad you enjoyed the vid!
@@prime_bits Yes, Optimus always does what needs to be done, but his line in 2007, "You left me no choice, brother," is significant. “Brother”, being the key word here since it shows that he still cared for Megatron at that point, which likely caused him to hold back. In ROTF, he called him “waste of metal” which means he no longer cares for Megatron, and realizes that trying to make amends with Megatron only endangers more lives. This shift is why he decisively defeats a stronger Megatron and other powerful enemies in later films, having learned from his earlier mistake of holding back due to their past connection. It also makes sense narratively, Optimus should go from being extremely compassionate to everybody (including Megatron), in the first movie, but after seeing the destruction and ramifications of being so compassionate, he switches up and stops holding back. Optimus himself said that the humans were barbaric and violent (agreeing with what Ironhide said). Humanity and Megatron are the same in Optimus’s eyes, he sees the good in both. He never chose one over the other, rather, he wants to see both redeem themselves which is why he didn't instantly put the cube in his chest People called Bayverse prime violent after ROTF, not because of 2007. When Optimus said “give me your face”, and killed Sentinel when he surrendered (war crime), that’s when people said he was violent. In fact, many people praise 2007 for being the only movie where Optimus acted like what a true “Optimus” should act like Optimus “almost” stepping on someone was an obvious CGI error. SInce the humans legit don’t react to Optimus and the man legit phases through Optimus’s foot. But even if it wasn’t, Optimus was on his knees looking down, so he could see if the human was fine or not. Once Optimus determined that he was fine, he resumed the battle. That line just means that the outcome of the battle was Megatron’s fault. By saying, "You left me no choice," Optimus is placing the responsibility for the conflict on Megatron. This is Optimus's way of telling Megatron that all of the destruction and violence stemmed from Megatron's decisions, not his own. It’s also him regretting not being able to convince Megatron to switch sides. Not so much Megatron leaving him no choice but to kill him, since Optimus also had the choice of dying to the Allspark to destroy it Optimus obviously knew Jazz died since Megatron legit threw his body towards the floor right in front of him. Him saying “Ohh, Jazz” is him paying respects to a comrade If Optimus wasn’t there, then Megatron would’ve gotten the Allspark and killed every human. If Optimus didn’t hold back, then Megatron would’ve got sent flying and rolling everywhere (like the forest fight) causing unnecessary collateral damage and casualties, the only logical thing is hold back so Megatron is distracted, whilst minimizing human casualties. Also proven by how Megatron was stumbling and rolling around when he got shot by the military, when Megatron is injured, he makes rash, violent and non-calculated moves which can endanger the surrounding humans. And Optimus HAD to have holding back. Because he didn’t use his swords (swords are still better than fists), and he didn’t punch at all. Optimus’s punches had MASSIVE AP on Megatron in the forest fight, who has the same body as 2007 Megatron, and is still stated to be upgraded whether you believe it or not. Yes, that is true, usually it would mean Optimus would lock in and stop holding back. But Bayverse is anything but usual. You say the odds that it not being true is unlikely, but I always found it unlikely that Optimus would ever say “GIVE ME YOUR FACE”. So we can’t use external media as proof here since Bayverse goes in its own direction and has its own characterization for Optimus Really? Where have you seen these old scripts of ROTF forest fight, i’d actually love to see them to confirm this There is a tremendous amount of evidence proving that Optimus WAS holding back. No matter what you say, you can’t tell me that a burning hot energon sword, stated to burn at 1000 degrees, would be less effective than Optimus’s fists. And Optimus deployed his sword a few moments after he hit Megatron with a tree in ROTF. Now obviously he wouldn’t deploy his swords as Megatrons is about to punch him. No, he would duck, counter attack, THEN pull out his swords. And in the forest battle, just before Optimus rips off Starscream’s arm and right after he hits Megatron in the face, he hits Megatron so hard that it sends him flying. Optimus didn’t do this in 2007. Why? Because he was holding back! And before you say anything, there is no physical difference between ROTF and 2007 Optimus Swords always worked against Megatron. It just seems like your nitpicking scenes here, so il give every moment Optimus used a sword against Megatron: 2007: Didn’t use them (holding back) ROTF: Used them extremely effectively, damage Megatron multiple times (ROTF was still stated to be a stronger Megatron) DOTM: The axe pierced his chest, so I don’t see why a sword can’t AOE: Galvatron instantly disarmed Optimus of the swords because of ROTF and DOTM and since he was scared of them(designed the hole specifically to counter him), not that they don’t work against him because as soon as Optimus deployed them, he destroyed them, proving he feared what Optimus would do TLK: Had his arm sliced off (yes he caught the sword but that's irrelevant since the sword still damaged him) This timeline also aligns with my point that Optimus stopped holding back after 2007. The timeline clearly show that post 2007, he always used his swords. It would be illogical for Optimus to not use his swords if he wasn't holding back Optimus only held back in 2007. Every other time he was beaten, I would have to agree that he was not holding back and was simply defeated because he was overpowered. But in this instance, I don't think so Optimus did lose a lot of comrades on Cybertron, but he still had his closest friends alive pre 2007 (Jazz, Ironhide, Bee, Elita, Ratchet). But once his closest comrade and second in command Jazz died, Optimus knew that he could no longer allow any more comrades to perish and stopped holding back after 2007 And NP, your videos are extremely entertaining and informative. Even if we don’t always share the same opinions
@@shockwavesuperior i mean in 2007 bayverse comics prime did use his swords against megs,prime might not holding back but also wasnt going all out and in ROTF prime does have better feats and literally slams both megs and the fallen even with jetfire gears( i think base prime is more than already enough as in guidebook states that optimus power level is 10 while the fallen is 5+)
@@NicoleTheHoloLynxJournalist if Optimus was not going all out, then he was holding back lol. But I get what you mean And yeah. Base prime is arguably stronger than Jetfire prime. Jetfire prime only having the advantage of flight and more weapons
I feel like the whole holding back thing can be a weird argument. To me, Optimus only ever held back once, being the 1st movie. The big issue for that actually comes down to multiple things. I say the humans being nearby definitely was a factor, but another thing was actually spacing. Something not many remember is that the area Optimus and Megatron fought within Mission City was a cramped ass street, meaning their mobility was generally fairly limited with how big they are. Even in the final few minutes, the most open space was within an intersection that they had to stay within. it was practically treated like an arena.
It's actually a pretty common thing while fighting. As a teen and further I had some cases when I had to fight (pretty bad city in a not that criminally stable country) and it's way harder when I was with someone, especially a woman. When I fought, my priority was to make sure that someone I cared about wasn't hurt. And it takes a toll on you not being hurt. You can't fully concentrate on a fight like this, when you have to think not only about trying to protect yourself. It adds motivation, yes, but also makes you more distracted.
I don't really believe that Optimus was holding back because of the humans in the first film because Optimus himself says that he was willing to sacrifice and there is also a line from Optimus that he came to Earth because of his home planet being destroyed by the of decepticons proving that he had already been defeated on Cybertron and also this is the weakest Optimus in the Bayverse among "
I agree Optimus Prime is my favorite, always has been and will be especially Bayverse, Transformer of all time. But I admit when he loses some fights and whenever he doesn’t hold back. I would say he just gets distracted wayy too easily when humans come into view. Like he drops his focus, prime example is the forest fight giving Megatron the sneak attack, completely and disregards the fight.
I believe optimuse wasn’t holding back,but in the act of being cautious he lets down his guard unintentionally. It’s like if he were fighting with a child or while being pregnant. Just my opinion
I would say the reason why 07 Optimus didn’t use Swords because it isn’t very suitable for it anyway. The city was way to tight spaced and in order to use the Energon Blades. It just have many obstacles. You can see battle terrain and understand it. He also only fire his blaster once because Megs can just eat it. Seriously, Megs cant eat Projectiles for days. Which is why he loves to brawl. In AOE Optimus losing the sword fight against Galvatron is because Galvatron have the hole in his chest to destroy the blades that Optimus have. In 07 Meg doesn’t have that. In ROTF, Megs eats Optimus’ Swords yes, but his body mass also increased as well if you compare it to 07 Megs. But you can see Megs fall down due to the fact that he can’t deal with Optimus in Ape Mode in current form he have. I just wanna say that Optimus doesn’t want to use Sword in 07 because the terrain isn’t suitable to use them. If Optimus. You know he wnat to protect humans. And he know using a Sword here. Blade might get stuck in the buildings or even kill innocent humans in the buildings. Which is why he didn’t use it. Optimus also very skilled shooter. If you noticed. He is very good at shooting. Seriously all of his shooting so far in the movie. He never miss any shot. Which explains why he use one Blaster on Meg because he thinks Megs can just get knockout but that didn’t work. He decided not to use it again because the gun didn’t work. In conclusion, Optimus can’t use Blades because he know the terrain isn’t suitable for Swords. You can see this right away when he using Weapons. Chicago is quite opened space and he can fight fully with his swords. Forest Battle is literally an open space. He doesn’t even hesitate to just activated the blades right away. Yes, Optimus doesn’t hold back but he refuses to use his weapon because it might get stuck. Trust me, using swords in close space are the worst thing you can fight.
I agree, he definitely doesn't hold back, at some point though i do think he had alot going on in his head causing him to mess some fights up causeing him to lose, but all in all i do agree with most of it
ya know i can agree with this reasoning since he is a protector and is cautious around the humans and he could have easily beat lockdown if he wanted to but he wasnt focusing on him the only reason he didnt kill sentinel was because of his emotions getting to his head i think but yeah hes not holding back hes just cautious
feel like should have been in a short video though/add the title transformers bayverse for future generations to make it specific for that Optimus Prime personality
i mean even in real life(not fiction) , the debate of holding back isnt good evidence either when you kill an animal or others because if someone is holding back that person shouldnt kill others(unless of course the person didnt kill/destroy anything) or its probably people being bias because the fiction character is weak or etc but still can kill unless it was weakend state or the character is already severe badly injured
@@Eradicator_MK666 I'm not really sure what you are saying. If you are fighting for someone you love, you wouldn't hold back. You would try to end the threat. By holding back you risk them getting hurt.
Yea you’re right if you do hold back you’ll make other vulnerable, and if you don’t give it your all more people would get hurt.well unless your goku he really loves to fight by telling the water against his opponents to see how strong they really are and beyond.
i believe Optimus has been holding back until the end of the forest battle in tf2, as all he does before that fight is subdue, as in that forest battle he was pushing them back or attacking the legs but after getting kicked and shot by Megatron he stopped holding back.
prime bits, I agree with you on everything except on Megatron; do you know what a sword is? do you know how they work? They're strength multipliers, it also gives the user better reach and in Optimus' case it's heated up, if he wasn't holding back why wouldn't he use his damn swords? Even if they're ineffective they're still a much better option than just using his fists!
They wouldn't work against Megatron. Every time Optimus tried to use one, it didn't work. You have to brawl 2007 Megatron. Even at the start of the Forest Battle, Optimus didn't pull out his swords until he realized Megatron was weaker. His first instinct was to brawl Megatron (in TF2). They just don't work against Megatron.
@@prime_bits my brother on Christ the examples that you used aren't it, in Tlk Megatron was able to counter the sword, but he still lost a whole ass limb! And the fact that as Galvatron he had to develop a counter to the sword implies that they are indeed better than using bare fists! And don't get me started on Rotf Megatron, that brother is much more resilient than TF1 Mega by far, quote the entire Operation Firestorm scene.
@@nova_zar Yes, Megatron did lose a limb, but that actually makes this more impressive. Megatron got sneaked attacked and lost an arm, but then pinned Optimus after that with Optimus's Sword. Galvatron does have a hole in his chest, but still, Optimus landed no hits with his Energon Sword on Galvatron. Optimus definitely was not holding back in 2007, so the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work against Megatron.
@@prime_bits What do you mean they wouldn't work? The times that he used them they sliced and diced him! And actually I have an example of Optimus using his sword despite it doing jack against an opponent, and that is with the Sentinel fight, but did you see him drop his weapons to clobber him with his fists? No!
@@nova_zar Like I said, Optimus definitely was not holding back in 2007, so the logical conclusion is that they wouldn't work against 2007 Megatron. And yes, Optimus's swords work against other characters like Sentinel, but they don't appear to work against Megatron. Every time Optimus tried to use one, it didn't work, it always ended up backfiring in a way. Except for TF2.
The reason he did not use swords is because, they are burning at a 1000 degree celcius, and there isn't a lot of space due to the fight taking place on a road, with many buildings. The swords not only could be used against optimus, but they could hurt humans as well, due to them being so hot.
Imo he is holding back but not in the way that he doesnt use his full power. Still he is the strongest transformer in history (except creators and primus) My examples- tf1(Optimus is holding back bc he knows if he uses his full power, he might not see human and hurt him or even kill. This is why he didnt got up instantly in tf after megatrons shoot, some will say that this shoot was just too strong. Its not true, bc it did zero damage to him, just knocked. Optimus just wanted to give time to humans to leave the place where he eas lying bc you know how it works, you have bottle next to you, you know thay its there but still you can hit it by mistake.) tf2(He lost bc he was looking for sam, megatron also said once that he looses bc he fights for humans, and not to his battle victory) tf3(he just stopped holding back too much, this is why he lost to sentinel, he played too agressively and had no shield to stop sentinels attack, he took all of them on chest or somehow managed to block them, he lost bc he had 2x weaker weapons than the ones that he has as a knight) tf4(he beat shit out of lockdown and galvatron, ofc lockdown made first problems but still if optimus decited to kill him he would win bc lockdown was on the ground and had nothing to do, just cade was in danger this is why optimus left the battle for 10 seconds, if not then lockdown would be dead. Why such a smart transformer as optimus go to a fight with much stronger opponent?Ofc if he is fighting seriously, he is winning, but if he wants to spare someones live, he loses due to his emotions. Galvatron was on ground beaten by prime even when optimus was distracted by human) Tf5(No need to explain) Its just my opinion.
I gotta say... thank you for being respectful! I personally don't think Optimus holds back because of humans, unless, they are in imminent danger. He *needs* to fight his hardest to make sure they stay safe. He got distracted by Sam during the Forest Battle because he wanted to make sure he didn't step on him (he mainly thought he put Sam in imminent danger). I only think he holds back if a human is in imminent danger. He fights his hardest to protect them otherwise, if he loses more people would get hurt. (I explained that in the vid) One thing I find interesting is that I don't think Optimus lost because of his emotions when fighting Sentinel. Whenever Optimus gets angry, he does better. That happened during the Forest Battle, and he started to get the upper hand against Lockdown once he got angry. He was grunting more than earlier in the fight when he kicked Lockdown into a wall. So Sentinel actually beat Optimus in his most dangerous state. Showing just how strong Sentinel Prime is. You are right though, Optimus didn't have a shield. But then again, Optimus did have a shield earlier in the film against Shockwave in Russia, he could have chosen to keep it instead of one of his other weapons. And Optimus knows Sentinel, he would pick the best weapons to fight him. So I don't think Optimus not having a shield matters too much, as he chose not to use one.
Optimus didn't kill Megatron over a truce???, It was confirmed that Bayverse removed that part of the movie due to people leaking that part which made it very much easy for the audience to know what will happen at the end of DOTM.
I dont know about the last part, why wouldn't the swords work in TF1, yet, for some reason, it managed to cut through some parts of TF2 Megatron that he had originally?
@@cafecreme6395 His Energon Swords could probably still stab Megatron in 2007, but the fact of the matter is that it wouldn't be effective. He chose not to use them, so the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work against Megatron in TF1.
@@cafecreme6395But itnnever actually did any meaningful damage. Megatron took several stabs yet he wasn't slowed or really effected. He also had those wounds the whole movie because he never fixed himself. Which proves that swords, while they can hurt him they don't ACTUALLY hurt him
"That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
Optimus not holding back also means that he is not very strong as he always gets defeated first then later defeats them So this tells us Optimus best strength isn’t his fighting ability but more on his strategy
Sword thing is big no, swords work against megatron, but megatron, is gladiator, he was raised as warrior, Orion Pax was ordinary bot who became Prime later. They have history together before fall of cybertron thats why he called him brother. Then we need to look that movies are made based on what looks cool in the moment and less on the universe of franchise. Bayformers have different explanations through all movies so searching for logic there is meh, but fights, they are simpler, Its like fighting in rl, some soldiers die, some survive, thats it, some die in battles and some in car accidents, this is same thing, maybe optimus was holding back, maybe not, Probably he wanted to speak to Megatron as old ally, to try to make reason with him as optimus is known for in another tf universes. And lets not forget Optimus wants his home back and it was constant choosing between allspark and survival of race or destroying it with hope of ending war. I dont think Optimus held back, but he had head full of IFs. Tf2 was simpler, there is Sam, I must protect him. Third one was fighting against someone you adored before, bringing brokn heart into fight.
YAP YAP YAP YAP YAP, Keep Yapping. The main thing is Optimus is HIM Bro. Wasn't Megatron, Sentinal Prime and other villians supposed to win against Optimus???
@@WilliamReaper They did. Sam killed Megatron while Optimus was just lying there. Optimus did not kill him. Megatron beat up Sentinel Prime from a sneak attack. Which SAVED Optimus Prime's life! Then Optimus killed a wounded, blind, paralyzed Sentinel. Both of those villains beat Optimus Prime.
Kind of, after Optimus took his eyes off Tessa, Optimus still had a split second before Galvatron landed the kick. Galvatron even started to get ready to kick before Optimus looked at Tessa. Galvatron was going to kick Optimus either way there probably.
bro i was said to myself its cause he saw his friends die, it be by video how cade showed him or just seeing them die, cause he also watched them die on cybertron, and one seen when he sees how the humans have slaughtered ratchet him and the autobots raid the base but you can clearly see optimus holding back on firing his weapon like he was scared to fire at humans while every other autobot fired there weapons
It also doesnt mean he is a Psychopath whoever calls him a psychopath is wrong since he is trying to protect humanity & his friends & him not holding back make sense since the decepticons are the true psychopath since they are trying to kill humans & his friends its kill or be killed & war you have to make a tough choice to kill the enemy who is trying to kill your friends or any innocent bystanders
Optimus isn’t holding back, but he wasn’t in the right mindset to fight sentinel: he never dodged and was just attacking (just attacking the shield), and calling sentinel really angrily! And versus megatron: First fight Optimus lost because megatron charged at Optimus pinned him down and then fired his gun and Optimus couldn’t come back from the flight as fast as megatron and he only could fire his gun But in the final fight Optimus was fighting megatron somewhat equally (in the background vs blackout and before the missle strike megatron kicked Optimus’s head but before he got striked he was far away from Optimus and Sam so he had to be pushed or thrown away) So eventhough Optimus was still inferior to megatron in the final battle he would probably be stronger in his knightform
@@Supermasist if it was so then why did they fight at the same place the whole time. Megatron 07 is a brawler and like throwing people around. But Optimus fought him in the same place until we got close up fighting scenes but even then Optimus was able to push megatron away from himself and sam offscreen (read the last part of my comment)
As much hate the Bayverse transformers get they are more relatable than a lot of other transformers media transformers Prime also is like that but in a more animated way Optimus in the Bayverse had to watch as his team was slowly killed at times being unable to help he's seen someone he thought was gone for good to crawl out of his grave to fight him again. He's seen innocence die in human kind and his own allies he's seen betrayal.
I have a controversial question. was Soundwave, Barricade & Decepticons executing Que/Wheeljack a War Crime? Or! Optimus Prime executing Sentinel Prime & Megatron a War Crime despite the evil act caused by Megatron and Sentinel? U should try making a short video about it?
Maybe, I don't know much about War Crimes. I think both of those technically were. But then again, there Cybertronians, they might have different rules about War Crimes.
To a degree yes Optimus Prime is holding back if he wasn't theres tons of various weapons and tools he could be using to if humans weren't soft targets also in the way. Like street lights if optimius was fighting dirty those would be perfect for spearing decepticons through shoulders. Also if Optimus Prime was fighting serious all the time he'd keep the trailer on his rear 24/7 ready at all times to go full flight mode in the 3rd and even 4th movies. Heck the only time we see optimus prime actually fight seriously as a transformer is the Rise of The Fallen fight 3v1, the ending fight in Rise of the fallen after getting the upgrade, the ending to Dark Side, and the Last Knight. All the other movies Optimus is clearly not using full kit or is clearly holding back.
And The last knight scene where Optimus use his sword against Megatrone i disagre. 1) He cut off Megatrone hand with sword so swords working against Megatrone 2) Megatrone pinned optimus because Optimus was in bad position after saving Bumblebee and Megatrone is bigger but Optimus kick out Megatron so he won.
But when humans are around he cant fight like when peoples arent here because he isnt focusing 100% on the fight but only like 75% and 25% about surouding humans because he dont wanna kill them. And with Sentinel he wasnt holding back but was angry and that is why he lose (for example Optimus punching Sentinels shield like 3 times when Sentinel was pinned down).
Ture all those other shorts saying he was holding back is like me saying megatron was toying with him, which was true. Prime gave it his all, and sentinel was a prime example when he beat him optimus beg for his life, if that's not him risking his life that badly I don't know what is?
@@prime_bitsand another thing people bring up is, tf2 megatron was stronger then tf1 cause of the kick damage difference, in the city the kick didn't break prime mouth guard but in tf2 it did but then I after comparing the two I remember saying yeah reason is 07 megatron wasn't being serious were tf2 was trying to kill prime. Pretty much proves the claims 07 was the goat!
I prove to you that rotf meg is stronger than t1 meg: megatron in t1 kicked optimus so hard but didn't do any damage to him, but in rotf megatron did a lot of damage to optimus, megatron in t1 runs very slow, while in rotf he runs fast with ez, in t1 megatron threw optimus with two hand and fell on his knees,while in rotf megatron threw optimus with on hand and barely fell on his knees. Thats all for today and don't forget about this
I know what you mean with Optimus vs megatron in TF1 but it’s been confirmed that he was holding back in TF1 HEAR ME OUT!!!! Optimus hoped he wouldnt have to kill Megatron because he’d hoped he’d change someday he only wanted to defeat him when Megatron died Optimus said “you left me no choice brother” meaning he didn’t want Megatron dead so he wasn’t fighting his hardest also when Optimus n Megatron shot each other if Optimus dodged up the way which he could’ve the blast would’ve hit the humans behind them so Optimus took that damage on purpose and Optimus n Megatron fell off the roof Optimus took more damage after that there wasn’t a lot of humans around so Optimus for harder off screen but he was badly hurt so Megatron won ALSO Optimus’s swords would’ve been effective in that fight he didn’t use them because he was holding back. galvatron and Megatron are not the same
His line "You left me no choice brother" means what it says. Megatron left him no choice but to fight and try to kill him. Optimus also shot Megatron in the chest, if he was holding back, he wouldn't have done that. And I also explained in the video why humans don't affect Optimus, unless they are in imminent danger. In fact, him getting hit by the shot was worse than him dodging it (if he could). He got flung into a building which caused more damage than if he had simply dodged the shot. And I don't think Optimus got hurt from falling from the building, at least not enough to hinder him. He took way more of a beating during the Forest Battle and he kept on fighting just fine.
@@prime_bits when he said “you left me no choice brother” the pain in his voice meant that this is not what he wanted to happen One shot to chest to megatron wouldn’t kill him even u know that remember Optimus is trying to stop Megatron the shot to the chest would only slow Megatron down If he dodged (which he could’ve) that would’ve kill the ppl in the building Optimus hit the building killed no one think about it Optimus knows how megatrons weapons work he had alot of time to dodge that’s the only reason he didn’t He definitely was hurt falling frm the building because when he said “its you and megatron” u can see how slow he got up megatron got up faster and proceeded to body slam Optimus and throw him after that off screen Optimus was put up a fight not holding back anymore because most of the humans were gone But the damage was done and Optimus was injured so we lost
@@MCKSAINT There was actually a scrapped line in DOTM where Optimus says something similar about Sentinel. And Optimus wasn't holding back against Sentinel (I explained that). So just because Optimus said that in 2007, that doesn't mean he was holding back. Think about it, one shot from Megatron's gun into a building, or, a giant robot being flung into a building. Tanking that shot is more risky than just dodging it. It is more likely that Optimus would crush someone since he is way bigger than Megatron's blast. Like I said earlier, even if Optimus was hurt from the fall, it shouldn't have affected him. He took way more of a beating during the Forest Battle. And he kept on fighting while being more damaged. Optimus can take a beating and still fight, even if he is hurt. And I also explained in the video that humans don't affect Optimus, unless they are in imminent danger. He almost steps on some humans showing that.
@@prime_bitsI know Optimus wasn’t holding back against sentinel That of the matter is Optimus flying into the building is that he did crush anyone everyone was ok The forest battle is different the only 2 big blows Optimus took was getting kicked in the face and got shot by Megatrons fusion Canon which we already saw Optimus can tank that Optimus was dragged while sliding down the building by megatron which made the fall harder so he was badly damaged Almost stepping on someone and stepping on someone one are two very different things he still has to focus on megatron while being careful where he steps
@@MCKSAINT Yeah, everyone was ok, but it is more dangerous still. I still don't think Optimus falling caused him to be injured, or at least not enough to affect him. He got up and kept fighting. He looked way more battle-damaged during the Forrest Battle. He also killed Megatron in TF3, with one arm while being more wounded than he was in TF1 as well. He clearly almost steps on 2 humans right before he shoots Megatron. Like I said, unless humans are in imminent danger, they don't bother him. And even if Optimus was damaged, and it did affect him after the fall. Megatron was still winning before that.
Optimus prime doesn’t hold back because in the beavers movies his sadness turns into rage because of all the friends he lost along the side of the movies and the comics because I remember in the first 2007 movie that Megatron actually had a spear and stabbed the dead autobot corpse and jazz got ripped in half by Megatron when Optimus wasn’t in Mission city but In TF rotf the arcee twins were killed when Optimus prime was dead, and Jetfire technically sacrificed himself to power up Optimus prime to defeat the fallen and transformers dark of the moon, sensational prime brutally killed Ironhide with the cosmic rust gun, and Optimus was raged in that moment, because that was the weapon specialist as he said the first ever live action movie transformers age of extinction ratchet was killed by lockdown because lockdown threatened ratchet. Tell him where location of Optimus prime ratchet was killed by lockdown, and after that cemetery wind Lightfoot was killed by cemetery wind, and Optimus clearly said that whenever he finds out who did this, he’s gonna kill him so it clearly states that Optimus was in raged Whenever they showed that ratchet was killed that they were welding down his remains and then in Transformers last night, he becomes nemesis prime, but it’s back to claim state only nemesis prime was brutal but in the beginning of transformers the last knight Optimus wasn’t raged and threaten to kill Quintessa before she hypnotizes Optimus
Kind of. But it does change a lot. Like for example, some argue that Optimus was holding back during the entire Lockdown fight because of Cade being there. But that is not true (I explained why). Optimus only get's distracted, he doesn't hold back when fighting.
@@prime_bits the distraction somewhat servers as a way to hold back, the kick he received from galvatron as an example, he could have defended it but received because he was looking if that girl I forgot her name was okay.
@@Songokulight2467 He could have possibly dodged Galvatron's kick if he hadn't looked at Tessa. But it is not like he was holding back the entire fight, it was just a moment. The main thing is some people say that when a human is present, Optimus automatically holds back a ton. Which that is the thing I attempted to de-bunk. Yes, he does get distracted, but it is not like he is constantly holding back. He fights his hardest to protect the humans.
Dont blame optimus prime for being brutal just remamber in his world the decepticons are real threat and not just villains of the week people died and autobots lost their spark i dont see any healthy person who's going to hold back
i think optimus was distracted and not holding back cuase when your distracted it gives an opening but megatron was gonna win in the 2007 movie if not for sam
@@CHRI3GD I don't think he was distracted. He almost steps on humans in 2007, and he also says "It's you and me Megatron...", so he was focused on Megatron, at least for sure after that.
Well, Optimus didn't have his Axe in 2007. He got his Axe in DOTM. And an Axe is a little different than a Sword. Also, Megatron didn't expect Optimus to attack him in TF3, so there is that as well.
@@Master-123-h8u Well at least in TF1, Optimus was not holding back against Megatron, and Megatron beat him pretty badly. So Megatron was definitely stronger in 2007.
@@prime_bitsI mean u can argue it…Optimus was going against deception’s in a tight space that being mission city & plenty of humans around so it was somewhat hard for him to maneuver the way we all know he could..plus in the second movie Optimus had more space and less confinement & more possibilities which he manages to take and compete with megatron and was dominating him and eventually with megatron even getting help which overtime wasn’t enough for megatron to overcome prime so it’s interesting if u ask me
The people who liked ROTB primes's "calm, kind, not killer nature" are the people who claim that bayverse prime is a psychotic, insane. Its funny because ROTB bland, trash movie flopped proves that the bayverse haters are few, but they do bark a lot and loud😂.
Reason why bayvese Optimus becomes a psychopath because he got ptsd of his friends and family died with him this leads him to be more ruthless than Megatron meaninghe's blinded by rage
*IMPORTANT UPDATE*
Some of you guys have disagreed with the Sword argument. To which, I understand (I still find it true though). However, we also have to keep in mind that Megatron didn't use his Wrecking Ball, or his Spear against Optimus. So it doesn't matter that Optimus didn't use his swords, because Megatron didn't use his other weapons either.
Some of you have also wondered why Optimus went from saying "Brother" in TF1, to "Waste of Metal, etc" in TF2. But this provides more evidence that Optimus wasn't holding back in 2007. If he did miss Megatron as a brother, he would have been happy (or some what at least) that Megatron was resurrected! Optimus is just acknowledging his and Megatron's past when they *used* to be brothers. But as I said in the video, that doesn't mean he was holding back as he is literally telling us that he has to kill Megatron.
Shout-out to @Kingofmenaces , @OneWithNoFace and @Talon_Productions , for some of the info in this video!
Talon’s short about why Optimus did not hold back in 2007 - th-cam.com/users/shortsX9mBKEuCdIQ?si=EOSAbDFRD8hED_bJ
You are right bro
Mrbeeprime channel lies about bayverse and you say truths you are the best and Megatron and shockwave strongest ✊
Ayyy I appreciate the shout out!
Also the alleys they were fighting in were very tight for Optimus to use his massive swords he would probably need more room and it is clearly not enough room for megatrons chain mace and spear
@@thelastprime4978 That is a good point as well!
When people say “holding back” it doesn’t mean he isn’t trying hard, it means he’s not being negligible about his allies, he’s paying attention to what’s around him which ends up with him getting beat
Bayverse Optimus is one of my personal favorite incarnations of Optimus Prime. The murders he did made him so Mortal Kombat-ish.
I agree!
My personal favorite ones are from fallen.
I get chills watching Optimus which is kinda nerdy but he’s been my favorite ever since I was boy
I grew up with the Bayverse and its incarnation of Optimus, so I'm a bit biased when choosing my favorite version of Prime, since the beyverse is a more dark and gritty version of transformers so I not surprised that the bots kill with no mercy since the war has been going on too long for either side to consider mercy as a choice
Quotes of Optimus Prime:
• “Freedom is the right of all sentient beings.”
• “One Shall Stand, One Shall Fall.”
• “You Picked the Wrong Planet!”
• “Give me your Face!”
• “I Rise, You Fall!”
• “I am Coming.”
• “I’m coming for you!”
• “YOU DIE!”
• “I WILL KILL YOU!!!
• “AAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!”
your forgot: “Time to find out”
Can't forget the absolutely Legendary line aghbarbabrgh
"You'll never stop at one! I'll take you all on!"
"IVE HAD ENOUGH! GAAHHH! TIME TO SHOW YOU, THE REAL POWER OF A PRIME!" *I know this is rise of the beasts I just wanted to throw it in lel*
Also:
“Time to find out”
“No, you didn’t betrayed me, you betrayed yourself”
There are some Transformers fans who say that Optimus was ruined from the second film onwards because in the first film he was nice in TF1 and in the other films he was more brutal.
And yet they gloss over him decapitating Bonecrusher.
Yeah but to be fair
He died in TF2 and started to take things more seriously n stuff
@@terrabits5962 NTM Megatron says to him "You are weak" so Prime became more aggresive
This war, too realistically your sanity would be fucked im surprised prime still held on to his morals and didn't go completely insane
@@ILovedarkspeakerman True transformers are like humans put them through centuries of war they might as well go insane
Optimus Prime is a person who holds back a lot in pretty much the entire Transformers omniverse that has Optimus Prime. That is literally one of the many things that makes him Optimus Prime. The Michael Bay variant does hold back, but not very often.
A protector does not mean you go all out against an opponent or opposition task. Say, for example, G1 Optimus Prime, specifically the IDW Comics version, if he were to go all out with the power level he is at, would destroy the entire Transformers omniverse, which he can already do. If he or anyone that is enraged and goes all out, they have no control of the power they posses, nor who they are. If he would also give his all, especially an opponent who does not return the same, he risks being exhausted and open for being killed, which seems to be one reason reason for the forest battle. He definitely was not giving his all until he said, "You'll never stop at one...I'll take you all on." He is way more skilled than Megatron, Starscream and Grindor as we saw. They could not touch him at first, even when it was Optimus and Megatron going at it one on one. I'm a self-taught martial artist and some of the martial arts he was displaying, I know. Such as Krav Maga, which he was attacking the weakest points on the body, the joints, and a lot more that he was doing. What was it that Unicorn told Optimus Prime in Armada? "How does engaging a war translate as peace." It literally defines Optimus Prime to bring peace and freedom to everyone. He does have to go all out if he doesn't need to.
One human does mean he holds back when that is who he is. The whole thing with Sentinel Prime in Chicago, he definitely was not holding mostly due to rage, and he knows his mentor. Now, calling out someone has nothing to do at all with holding back or cutting loose. Optimus was very fed up with what Sentinel has done and more so with the death of Ironhide.
Him shooting Megatron in the chest doesn't have anything to do with holding back or cutting loose. Optimus Prime is an extremely effective killer (this version is the only one that straight up kills pretty much all the time) and combant, and the same goes for Megatron. They know each other very well. There is also a lot of footage from 2007 where there are not any humans present when Optimus and Megatron are fighting in certain areas. Again, One shall stand and one shall fall does not translate as Optimus Prime going all out. It does mean this is his final confrontation with someone, hopefully, and he isn't going to let more live be put on the line. Him letting go of Megatron going through the building is because Megatron is stearing, and Optimus tried to him. There is nothing to do with him trying to prevent any further damage when Megatron is the one who does not care at all for humans. The prequel comics also show that Optimus Prime and Megatron were very close. Swords don't work against Megatron? It's a sword, dude. It is meant to do damage depending on the persons intent. Galvatron grabbed the sword because he knew he didn't have a physical spark to get impalded with since he has that hole there. If swords don't work, as Galvatron put it, that would be many of the things he wouldn't fear. Plus, Optimus Prime's swords are at 9000 degrees C. Megatron pinned Optimus down after he got his right arm cut off. If it didn't work, the sword of judgment shouldn't have done anything to him. Every time Optimus used a sword, it worked against Megatron. In the forest battle, he literally stabbed Megatron in the face, left leg, and his back. Megatron had a reaction to each hit. He also lost his right arm in the Egypt battle. In the prequel comics, Optimus stabbed Megatron in the chest when they were surrounded by hatchlings, and that was Megatron from 2007. Then you have Dark of the Moon. It was an axe, but it was still a blade. You also have again, The Last Knight. This also is the primary Michael Bay Optimus Prime. There are other realities and possibilities of this Optimus Prime doing different things. There is too much here you said that is just not correct.
I ain't reading allat
Thank you it’s about time someone puts this out there. Yes Optimus is a very compassionate being who prefers to work things out peacefully. But that doesn’t mean he won’t fight or even kill to protect himself or his loved ones. The only times he holds back are when in encounters with those who he has a personal history with like Megatron and Sentinel. But like you said he gave both of them a chance to stop what they were doing and end things peacefully but they didn’t listen so Optimus is forced to do what must be done.
I think maybe another reason he didn’t use his energon swords against Megatron is because Megs wasn’t using his mace/flail so Optimus reframed from using his blades as a showing of honour. Something that backs this up is the fact that the only time he is shown using a weapon in that fight is when Megatron decides to whip out his fusion cannon.
@@heisenburger9950 Yep, Bayverse Optimus does what needs to be done no matter the cost.
And yeah, it could be argued that Optimus also didn't use his Energon Swords as a sign of honor. But nonetheless, swords don't really work against strong versions of Megatron.
This was actually shown in DOTM as well where Sentinel mocks Optimus that he is incapable of making difficult decisions but he does exactly that in the movie, destroying his own planet to save Earth.
So true
@@shariqhasan6220 I don't think Sentinel was mocking him, I never saw Sentinel as an objectively evil character, he's just doing what's best, perhaps he was just giving Prime a reality check.
Never thought I’d see Peter Griffin show up in a Transformers video.
Lol
Anything is possible friend
New favorite video, every argument I've ever used in one video. Absolutely perfect.
@@OneWithNoFace Thanks dude!
I am glad you enjoyed it!
I remember from Transformers Armada when Optimas basically admitted to Unicron and Megatron that he loved the taste and sensation of battle just as much as they did but held enough self restraint to not let that drive him it still sets wirh me today
@@thatbiguy8854 Yeah, one thing to think about though. Is Jetpower Optimus was based off of Transformers Armada. So perhaps that trait carries over to the Bayverse...
But hey that's just a theory!
I never understood the resentment of Optimus committing brutal finishers on his opponents when most of the time they're highly genocidal maniacs that want to eviscerate earths life for cybertron
A theory out there is that after he got killed in TF2, once he got resurrected he became much more brutal so that he doesn’t get bested, and so that the people he’s protecting aren’t at risk.
I love Bayverse Optimus Prime! I enjoy it when he does not hold back and obliterates all Decepticons and all of his enemies.
I do too! Some people don't like it, and I can see why, but I like it!
Same here 😁😁
I like it but only a different take on prime. It should never be the standard for the character
6:27 even then, those swords didn't effectively slice through even a weakened megatron. They only merely poke and slice off small chunks of metallic "flesh"
Cause ROTF Megatron is his most durable form. Also swords still obviously work on Megatron it’s just he’s that much of a unit that he can pretty effortlessly tank the hit before either disarming or disposing of it.
@@TomfooleryBuster Yes, but still it was the only time Megatron wasn't able to counter them.
@prime_bits yeah. Megatron having really great skill in getting rid of them most of the time, except here. And people say Megatron has no skill and is only a brawler..
@@TomfooleryBuster Yep, there is even a shot of the background near the time of Blackouts death (or near death's experience) where we can see Optimus and Megatron fighting. And Megatron is actually spinning around and outmaneuvering, as well as out-skilling Prime.
@@prime_bits ROTF Megatron is just not used to his newly formed body, but he could actually take a hard beating from Prime with just a few chunks of metal spewing out of him.
I still hearing Megatron saying ooooof in jungle fight😂
I have a big feeling that this is going to be another great Transformers TH-cam Channel…
Keep it up man, you’ve got this 😎👍❤
@@marialopez-ql9ec Thanks dude!
@@prime_bits Np❤️
I always never understood the hatred towards Bayverse Prime for killing his enemies. It's the argument with Batman on why he should take out the Joker for constantly killing humans. Megatron is openly stating that he is gonna commit mass genocide twice of Planet Earth and then enslave them in DOTM so you'd think that Optimus putting Megatron down whenever he could would be accepted more positively. The movies aren't like the OG TV show where practically no humans get hurt and the tone is more light hearted until the movie. Where in that when Megatron threatens Earth in a more substantial way along with killing Optimus's friends. To which Optimus himself says that Megatron must be stopped implying that he was gonna put Megatron into Stasis permanently if it wasn't for Hot Rod.
So true
3:55 fun fact : the human megatron knocked away is none other than the director Michael bay
Bay-verse prime is my fav version!😁👍👍🚚
I would say theres a difference in combat. Ive never seen anyone say hes holding back, but I will say hes def in different forms of combat in each of these fights.
With megatron in tf1 this is a chance to talk or even the odds for the the cube, so its a tug of war against two opposing forces rather than a duel between two adversaries.
In tf2 that was a straight kill in the end for both megatron and the fallen.
tf3 is no different, its a mercy fight. If he wins he spares sentinel, if sentinel wins he dies, but since he saw how willing sentinel was to destroy him. he took every chance to put him down. Thats a major reason why he said he betrayed himself. Signifying he has lost his way of being a good being and a leader and most importantly a friend.
He would only fight for what is most important in that moment. Hence why hes cautious of humans but determined to see the goal sought through.
Fun fact the human Megatron flicked was actually the director Michale bay
Addressing all your points:
Optimus realistically would not hold back if he’s protecting the humans since he cares about them, but Optimus also cares about Megatron. Which is why he said “you left me no choice brother”. But in ROTF onwards, he realized his mistake in trying to fix his relationship with Megatron, and the potential lives he would endanger by doing so, and in turn, stopped holding back. Which is why he beat a stronger Megatron, along with the 2 most powerful Decepticons in ROTF
Optimus watching out for humans is still him holding back. He has to focus on the big metal robot trying to fight him, whilst not killing humans during the fight. It's more so his mind is conflicted between going all out, and being mindful of his surroundings. And the ROTF universe guidebook says that Optimus rarely gives it his all in fear of collateral damage.
The only time Optimus held back was against Megatron in 2007. He did not hold back against any other villain, since only in 2007, were there a lot of humans around. Every other time, it's mainly just been the bots and a sometimes a few humans
Optimus called Megatron to him because Megatron legit forced his Autobots to fall back with just feat and killed his first lieutenant, this does not mean he wasn’t holding back, this only means he was trying to keep Megatron's attention from the humans and the Autobots
He shot Megatron in the arm, which is why Megatron started spinning, if it was in the chest, he would've got sent backwards, not spinning
Megatron did not like humanity. He wanted the Allspark to create an army to eradicate the humans, turning their tech into his new army, then to restore Cybertron and conquer both worlds. Plus he was the Fallen’s student, who genuinely despised humans. And Megatron didn’t harm the humans because Optimus was legit in front of him trying to distract him. If Optimus was not there, Megatron would’ve killed all the humans around him and made an army to wipe out the planet.
This line is not proof of Optimus not holding back. It is more so a hyperbolic expression to emphasize the dramatic nature of the battle, as well as being a fan service, for Optimus saying one of his most famous lines. You can argue that it’s him not holding back anymore, but the contextual evidence says otherwise. After the line, Optimus still did not deploy his weapons
Swords do in fact work against Megatron. Galvatron had made that hole in his chest because of the Forest battle, and how as soon as Optimus deployed his weapons in ROTF, he slammed Megatron, Starscream and killed Grindor. Megatron knew how skilled and powerful Optimus is with his swords, and wanted to remove them immediately. And Knight Megatron still got his arm sliced off
It does not highlight how weak ROTF Megatron is, rather demonstrates how Optimus, in fact, was holding back in 2007. Official sources say Megatron was upgraded in ROTF. So your point is irrelevant here ngl. And Megatron in DOTM had the same torso as ROTF, who had the same Torso as 2007. And his armor was pierced by the energon axe, so it would be pierced by his swords
And you are right, Optimus never held back. But that's only after 2007. Once he saw how dangerous the Decepticons can be to the potential of the human race, and how holding back was endangering not only humans, but his own team. That made him realize that holding back was no longer an option
Mb for the yap, but overall. Optimus only held back against Megatron in 2007. Every other time, he went all out. Which is why the villains need to get progressively stronger. Narratively, Optimus not holding back anymore means that every new villain he faces needs to get progressively stronger (The Fallen is an outlier since he’s one of the strongest beings)
But loved the video brother, keep it up
I explained why Optimus said “You left me no choice brother” in the video. He is literally acknowledging that he has to kill Megatron. And there was actually a scrapped line in DOTM where Optimus says something similar about Sentinel. And Optimus wasn't holding back against Sentinel (I explained that). So just because Optimus said that in 2007, that doesn't mean he was holding back. Like I also said, Bayverse Prime does what needs to be done.
Think about it, why would he choose Megatron over Earth? He wouldn't, he even tells us, “They (humans) deserve to choose for themselves!”, Optimus sided with the humans. If then, why would he hold back and risk humanity?
Optimus is compassionate, but many call Optimus a psycho in the Bayverse, which I don't think he is, but he is definitely very violent. He killed Bonecrusher brutality earlier in TF1, so he was violent the whole series.
Optimus almost steps on some humans in TF1, I showed that. Which proves that unless humans are in imminent danger, they don't bother him.
Optimus wasn’t holding back in 2007, I explained that. The humans didn't affect Optimus and he was going for the kill, he says “You left me no choice brother” telling us that Megatron left him no choice but to fight and try to kill him.
He called Megatron down to fight him. Optimus wasn't there when all the Autobots retreated, he also wasn't there when Jazz died. Optimus didn't even know Megatron killed Jazz. He says “Oh, Jazz, we lost a great comrade…”, signaling he didn't know Jazz died.
He shot Megatron in the left side of Megatron’s chest kind of by his shoulder. You can see that in slow-mo. Megatron spun around to reduce the shot's momentum, that is why he didn't fly backward. He re-dierected the momentum.
Yes, very true, Megatron didn't like humanity. My point was that Megatron was not too interested in out-right harming humans during the fight. Obviously, that was his grand plan, but he was more focused on The AllSpark and Optimus. So you are right, Optimus (and The AllSpark) was distracting Megatron from harming the humans. Also further proving that Optimus wasn’t holding back because that would cause more humans to get hurt.
Literally everytime Optimus has ever said “One shall stand, one shall fall”, that means Optimus is not holding back. The odds that that is not true here are severe.
In some of the alternate versions of The Forest Battle in TF2, they actually have Megatron dominating Optimus just like in 2007. That is also why sources say that ROTF Megatron is stronger, as they were based on those versions of The Forest Battle. Because clearly they are not accurate to the final film.
(I have also made a video explaining why ROTF Megatron is weaker than 2007 Megatron)
There is a tremendous amount of evidence showing that Optimus was not holding back in 2007. So the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work. In fact, Optimus’s 1st instinct in TF2 was actually to brawl Megatron. Optimus didn't pull out his Swords untill he started trash-talking Megatron.
And still, everytime Optimus tried to use a Sword against Megatron, Megatron countered it easily. Showing that Swords aren’t effective against him. Again, that also highlights how weak Megatron was in TF2, as that is the only time Swords worked against him.
Optimus never held back the entire Bayverse. He already knows how destructive the Decepticons were. They led to the downfall of his world and killed a lot of his friends.
I'm glad you enjoyed the vid!
@@prime_bits Yes, Optimus always does what needs to be done, but his line in 2007, "You left me no choice, brother," is significant. “Brother”, being the key word here since it shows that he still cared for Megatron at that point, which likely caused him to hold back. In ROTF, he called him “waste of metal” which means he no longer cares for Megatron, and realizes that trying to make amends with Megatron only endangers more lives. This shift is why he decisively defeats a stronger Megatron and other powerful enemies in later films, having learned from his earlier mistake of holding back due to their past connection. It also makes sense narratively, Optimus should go from being extremely compassionate to everybody (including Megatron), in the first movie, but after seeing the destruction and ramifications of being so compassionate, he switches up and stops holding back.
Optimus himself said that the humans were barbaric and violent (agreeing with what Ironhide said). Humanity and Megatron are the same in Optimus’s eyes, he sees the good in both. He never chose one over the other, rather, he wants to see both redeem themselves which is why he didn't instantly put the cube in his chest
People called Bayverse prime violent after ROTF, not because of 2007. When Optimus said “give me your face”, and killed Sentinel when he surrendered (war crime), that’s when people said he was violent. In fact, many people praise 2007 for being the only movie where Optimus acted like what a true “Optimus” should act like
Optimus “almost” stepping on someone was an obvious CGI error. SInce the humans legit don’t react to Optimus and the man legit phases through Optimus’s foot. But even if it wasn’t, Optimus was on his knees looking down, so he could see if the human was fine or not. Once Optimus determined that he was fine, he resumed the battle.
That line just means that the outcome of the battle was Megatron’s fault. By saying, "You left me no choice," Optimus is placing the responsibility for the conflict on Megatron. This is Optimus's way of telling Megatron that all of the destruction and violence stemmed from Megatron's decisions, not his own. It’s also him regretting not being able to convince Megatron to switch sides. Not so much Megatron leaving him no choice but to kill him, since Optimus also had the choice of dying to the Allspark to destroy it
Optimus obviously knew Jazz died since Megatron legit threw his body towards the floor right in front of him. Him saying “Ohh, Jazz” is him paying respects to a comrade
If Optimus wasn’t there, then Megatron would’ve gotten the Allspark and killed every human. If Optimus didn’t hold back, then Megatron would’ve got sent flying and rolling everywhere (like the forest fight) causing unnecessary collateral damage and casualties, the only logical thing is hold back so Megatron is distracted, whilst minimizing human casualties. Also proven by how Megatron was stumbling and rolling around when he got shot by the military, when Megatron is injured, he makes rash, violent and non-calculated moves which can endanger the surrounding humans. And Optimus HAD to have holding back. Because he didn’t use his swords (swords are still better than fists), and he didn’t punch at all. Optimus’s punches had MASSIVE AP on Megatron in the forest fight, who has the same body as 2007 Megatron, and is still stated to be upgraded whether you believe it or not.
Yes, that is true, usually it would mean Optimus would lock in and stop holding back. But Bayverse is anything but usual. You say the odds that it not being true is unlikely, but I always found it unlikely that Optimus would ever say “GIVE ME YOUR FACE”. So we can’t use external media as proof here since Bayverse goes in its own direction and has its own characterization for Optimus
Really? Where have you seen these old scripts of ROTF forest fight, i’d actually love to see them to confirm this
There is a tremendous amount of evidence proving that Optimus WAS holding back. No matter what you say, you can’t tell me that a burning hot energon sword, stated to burn at 1000 degrees, would be less effective than Optimus’s fists. And Optimus deployed his sword a few moments after he hit Megatron with a tree in ROTF. Now obviously he wouldn’t deploy his swords as Megatrons is about to punch him. No, he would duck, counter attack, THEN pull out his swords. And in the forest battle, just before Optimus rips off Starscream’s arm and right after he hits Megatron in the face, he hits Megatron so hard that it sends him flying. Optimus didn’t do this in 2007. Why? Because he was holding back! And before you say anything, there is no physical difference between ROTF and 2007 Optimus
Swords always worked against Megatron. It just seems like your nitpicking scenes here, so il give every moment Optimus used a sword against Megatron:
2007: Didn’t use them (holding back)
ROTF: Used them extremely effectively, damage Megatron multiple times (ROTF was still stated to be a stronger Megatron)
DOTM: The axe pierced his chest, so I don’t see why a sword can’t
AOE: Galvatron instantly disarmed Optimus of the swords because of ROTF and DOTM and since he was scared of them(designed the hole specifically to counter him), not that they don’t work against him because as soon as Optimus deployed them, he destroyed them, proving he feared what Optimus would do
TLK: Had his arm sliced off (yes he caught the sword but that's irrelevant since the sword still damaged him)
This timeline also aligns with my point that Optimus stopped holding back after 2007. The timeline clearly show that post 2007, he always used his swords. It would be illogical for Optimus to not use his swords if he wasn't holding back
Optimus only held back in 2007. Every other time he was beaten, I would have to agree that he was not holding back and was simply defeated because he was overpowered. But in this instance, I don't think so
Optimus did lose a lot of comrades on Cybertron, but he still had his closest friends alive pre 2007 (Jazz, Ironhide, Bee, Elita, Ratchet). But once his closest comrade and second in command Jazz died, Optimus knew that he could no longer allow any more comrades to perish and stopped holding back after 2007
And NP, your videos are extremely entertaining and informative. Even if we don’t always share the same opinions
@@shockwavesuperior i mean in 2007 bayverse comics prime did use his swords against megs,prime might not holding back but also wasnt going all out and in ROTF prime does have better feats and literally slams both megs and the fallen even with jetfire gears( i think base prime is more than already enough as in guidebook states that optimus power level is 10 while the fallen is 5+)
@@NicoleTheHoloLynxJournalist if Optimus was not going all out, then he was holding back lol. But I get what you mean
And yeah. Base prime is arguably stronger than Jetfire prime. Jetfire prime only having the advantage of flight and more weapons
@@shockwavesuperiori think Optimus was also holding back on sentinel because if it was Jetpack Optimus Sentinel Prime would have been toast
I feel like the whole holding back thing can be a weird argument. To me, Optimus only ever held back once, being the 1st movie. The big issue for that actually comes down to multiple things. I say the humans being nearby definitely was a factor, but another thing was actually spacing. Something not many remember is that the area Optimus and Megatron fought within Mission City was a cramped ass street, meaning their mobility was generally fairly limited with how big they are. Even in the final few minutes, the most open space was within an intersection that they had to stay within. it was practically treated like an arena.
No one's safe when Optimus Prime becomes Murderous Crime
Then decepticons are not? You should've supported your trash, bland ROTB caused it flopped real bad, didn't even surpass TLK😂
You're very welcome! This is what makes you so good. You actually hear out other people.
Worthy of a prime!
Thanks man! I appreciate that!
@@prime_bits Ws from space to earth all the way
It's actually a pretty common thing while fighting. As a teen and further I had some cases when I had to fight (pretty bad city in a not that criminally stable country) and it's way harder when I was with someone, especially a woman. When I fought, my priority was to make sure that someone I cared about wasn't hurt. And it takes a toll on you not being hurt. You can't fully concentrate on a fight like this, when you have to think not only about trying to protect yourself. It adds motivation, yes, but also makes you more distracted.
I don't really believe that Optimus was holding back because of the humans in the first film because Optimus himself says that he was willing to sacrifice and there is also a line from Optimus that he came to Earth because of his home planet being destroyed by the of decepticons proving that he had already been defeated on Cybertron and also this is the weakest Optimus in the Bayverse among "
I don't believe Optimus was holding back because of humans either. He fights his hardest to protect them.
I agree Optimus Prime is my favorite, always has been and will be especially Bayverse, Transformer of all time. But I admit when he loses some fights and whenever he doesn’t hold back. I would say he just gets distracted wayy too easily when humans come into view. Like he drops his focus, prime example is the forest fight giving Megatron the sneak attack, completely and disregards the fight.
I believe optimuse wasn’t holding back,but in the act of being cautious he lets down his guard unintentionally. It’s like if he were fighting with a child or while being pregnant. Just my opinion
Considering my love for TF since I was a kid, every piece of content including TF is more than welcome
I missed Bayverse Optimus 😢
Why did it have to end😭
@@prime_bitsHaters nothing else, too many people call this version of OP psychotic and that Michael Bay destroyed Optimus Prime 🤦🏿♂️
/_\
I would say the reason why 07 Optimus didn’t use Swords because it isn’t very suitable for it anyway. The city was way to tight spaced and in order to use the Energon Blades. It just have many obstacles. You can see battle terrain and understand it. He also only fire his blaster once because Megs can just eat it. Seriously, Megs cant eat Projectiles for days. Which is why he loves to brawl. In AOE Optimus losing the sword fight against Galvatron is because Galvatron have the hole in his chest to destroy the blades that Optimus have. In 07 Meg doesn’t have that. In ROTF, Megs eats Optimus’ Swords yes, but his body mass also increased as well if you compare it to 07 Megs. But you can see Megs fall down due to the fact that he can’t deal with Optimus in Ape Mode in current form he have. I just wanna say that Optimus doesn’t want to use Sword in 07 because the terrain isn’t suitable to use them. If Optimus. You know he wnat to protect humans. And he know using a Sword here. Blade might get stuck in the buildings or even kill innocent humans in the buildings. Which is why he didn’t use it. Optimus also very skilled shooter. If you noticed. He is very good at shooting. Seriously all of his shooting so far in the movie. He never miss any shot. Which explains why he use one Blaster on Meg because he thinks Megs can just get knockout but that didn’t work. He decided not to use it again because the gun didn’t work.
In conclusion, Optimus can’t use Blades because he know the terrain isn’t suitable for Swords. You can see this right away when he using Weapons. Chicago is quite opened space and he can fight fully with his swords. Forest Battle is literally an open space. He doesn’t even hesitate to just activated the blades right away.
Yes, Optimus doesn’t hold back but he refuses to use his weapon because it might get stuck. Trust me, using swords in close space are the worst thing you can fight.
3:50 that guy got yeeted
I agree, he definitely doesn't hold back, at some point though i do think he had alot going on in his head causing him to mess some fights up causeing him to lose, but all in all i do agree with most of it
Awesome video keep it up 👍🔥🔥🔥
@@KnightsofCybertronReturns Thanks dude!
Bro glazing Megatron? Because galvatrons core can grind the sword easily but Megatron can't, and galvatron takes no damages for some reason
Galvatron isn't strong he's not immortal he's made like stinger who can still die
ya know i can agree with this reasoning since he is a protector and is cautious around the humans and he could have easily beat lockdown if he wanted to but he wasnt focusing on him the only reason he didnt kill sentinel was because of his emotions getting to his head i think but yeah hes not holding back hes just cautious
@@QuanjayNon-ie5yx Yeah, but he is only cautious if a human is in imminent danger.
Optimus biggest weakness is getting caught off guard while fighting his enemies because they take that as a full advantage to take him down
feel like should have been in a short video though/add the title transformers bayverse for future generations to make it specific for that Optimus Prime personality
i mean even in real life(not fiction) , the debate of holding back isnt good evidence either when you kill an animal or others because if someone is holding back that person shouldnt kill others(unless of course the person didnt kill/destroy anything)
or its probably people being bias because the fiction character is weak or etc but still can kill unless it was weakend state or the character is already severe badly injured
@@Eradicator_MK666 I'm not really sure what you are saying.
If you are fighting for someone you love, you wouldn't hold back. You would try to end the threat. By holding back you risk them getting hurt.
Yea you’re right if you do hold back you’ll make other vulnerable, and if you don’t give it your all more people would get hurt.well unless your goku he really loves to fight by telling the water against his opponents to see how strong they really are and beyond.
This is the optimus that we wanted, not the one that we deserved.
i believe Optimus has been holding back until the end of the forest battle in tf2, as all he does before that fight is subdue, as in that forest battle he was pushing them back or attacking the legs but after getting kicked and shot by Megatron he stopped holding back.
prime bits, I agree with you on everything except on Megatron; do you know what a sword is? do you know how they work? They're strength multipliers, it also gives the user better reach and in Optimus' case it's heated up, if he wasn't holding back why wouldn't he use his damn swords? Even if they're ineffective they're still a much better option than just using his fists!
They wouldn't work against Megatron. Every time Optimus tried to use one, it didn't work.
You have to brawl 2007 Megatron. Even at the start of the Forest Battle, Optimus didn't pull out his swords until he realized Megatron was weaker. His first instinct was to brawl Megatron (in TF2).
They just don't work against Megatron.
@@prime_bits my brother on Christ the examples that you used aren't it, in Tlk Megatron was able to counter the sword, but he still lost a whole ass limb! And the fact that as Galvatron he had to develop a counter to the sword implies that they are indeed better than using bare fists! And don't get me started on Rotf Megatron, that brother is much more resilient than TF1 Mega by far, quote the entire Operation Firestorm scene.
@@nova_zar Yes, Megatron did lose a limb, but that actually makes this more impressive.
Megatron got sneaked attacked and lost an arm, but then pinned Optimus after that with Optimus's Sword.
Galvatron does have a hole in his chest, but still, Optimus landed no hits with his Energon Sword on Galvatron.
Optimus definitely was not holding back in 2007, so the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work against Megatron.
@@prime_bits What do you mean they wouldn't work? The times that he used them they sliced and diced him! And actually I have an example of Optimus using his sword despite it doing jack against an opponent, and that is with the Sentinel fight, but did you see him drop his weapons to clobber him with his fists? No!
@@nova_zar Like I said, Optimus definitely was not holding back in 2007, so the logical conclusion is that they wouldn't work against 2007 Megatron.
And yes, Optimus's swords work against other characters like Sentinel, but they don't appear to work against Megatron.
Every time Optimus tried to use one, it didn't work, it always ended up backfiring in a way. Except for TF2.
Optimus prime brutal rampage 🔥🔥😱😱
The reason he did not use swords is because, they are burning at a 1000 degree celcius, and there isn't a lot of space due to the fight taking place on a road, with many buildings.
The swords not only could be used against optimus, but they could hurt humans as well, due to them being so hot.
He held back in the 07 movie but in the later movies he wasn’t taking the decepticons crap
I only see him as a grizzled war veteran who lost his way over the years,besides what would you do with murderous decepticons,lock them up?
And people are still going to argue the exact opposite despite evidence, just like Superman vs Goku
Imo he is holding back but not in the way that he doesnt use his full power.
Still he is the strongest transformer in history (except creators and primus)
My examples-
tf1(Optimus is holding back bc he knows if he uses his full power, he might not see human and hurt him or even kill. This is why he didnt got up instantly in tf after megatrons shoot, some will say that this shoot was just too strong. Its not true, bc it did zero damage to him, just knocked. Optimus just wanted to give time to humans to leave the place where he eas lying bc you know how it works, you have bottle next to you, you know thay its there but still you can hit it by mistake.)
tf2(He lost bc he was looking for sam, megatron also said once that he looses bc he fights for humans, and not to his battle victory)
tf3(he just stopped holding back too much, this is why he lost to sentinel, he played too agressively and had no shield to stop sentinels attack, he took all of them on chest or somehow managed to block them, he lost bc he had 2x weaker weapons than the ones that he has as a knight)
tf4(he beat shit out of lockdown and galvatron, ofc lockdown made first problems but still if optimus decited to kill him he would win bc lockdown was on the ground and had nothing to do, just cade was in danger this is why optimus left the battle for 10 seconds, if not then lockdown would be dead. Why such a smart transformer as optimus go to a fight with much stronger opponent?Ofc if he is fighting seriously, he is winning, but if he wants to spare someones live, he loses due to his emotions. Galvatron was on ground beaten by prime even when optimus was distracted by human)
Tf5(No need to explain)
Its just my opinion.
I gotta say... thank you for being respectful!
I personally don't think Optimus holds back because of humans, unless, they are in imminent danger. He *needs* to fight his hardest to make sure they stay safe.
He got distracted by Sam during the Forest Battle because he wanted to make sure he didn't step on him (he mainly thought he put Sam in imminent danger). I only think he holds back if a human is in imminent danger. He fights his hardest to protect them otherwise, if he loses more people would get hurt. (I explained that in the vid)
One thing I find interesting is that I don't think Optimus lost because of his emotions when fighting Sentinel. Whenever Optimus gets angry, he does better. That happened during the Forest Battle, and he started to get the upper hand against Lockdown once he got angry. He was grunting more than earlier in the fight when he kicked Lockdown into a wall. So Sentinel actually beat Optimus in his most dangerous state. Showing just how strong Sentinel Prime is.
You are right though, Optimus didn't have a shield. But then again, Optimus did have a shield earlier in the film against Shockwave in Russia, he could have chosen to keep it instead of one of his other weapons. And Optimus knows Sentinel, he would pick the best weapons to fight him. So I don't think Optimus not having a shield matters too much, as he chose not to use one.
Optimus didn't kill Megatron over a truce???, It was confirmed that Bayverse removed that part of the movie due to people leaking that part which made it very much easy for the audience to know what will happen at the end of DOTM.
He doesn’t hold back he sometimes has something that holds him back
I dont know about the last part, why wouldn't the swords work in TF1, yet, for some reason, it managed to cut through some parts of TF2 Megatron that he had originally?
@@cafecreme6395 His Energon Swords could probably still stab Megatron in 2007, but the fact of the matter is that it wouldn't be effective. He chose not to use them, so the logical conclusion is that his Swords wouldn't work against Megatron in TF1.
@@prime_bits
It still damaged tf2 Megs quite a bit
@@cafecreme6395But itnnever actually did any meaningful damage. Megatron took several stabs yet he wasn't slowed or really effected. He also had those wounds the whole movie because he never fixed himself. Which proves that swords, while they can hurt him they don't ACTUALLY hurt him
@@Kingofmenaces
"While they can hurt him, they cant ACTUALLY hurt him"
Holy jesus Christ, what?
optimus was at war with the decepticons for a very long time, so it's natural that he began to feel some hatred and cruelty towards his enemies.
Yeah exactly.
"That man won't quit as long as he can still draw a breath. None of my teammates will. Me? I've got a different problem. I feel like I live in a world made of cardboard, always taking constant care not to break something, to break someone. Never allowing myself to lose control even for a moment, or someone could die. But you can take it, can't you, big man? What we have here is a rare opportunity for me to cut loose and show you just how powerful I really am."
This is thee most convinient thing every since I just watched that scene from justice league unlimited lol
Optimus Prime is that one main character that murders his enemies, batman gotta learn from him
Optimus is one wrecking ball of Decepticons.
6:05 Well yeah, it didn't work because of how indestructible Gal patron was. But for some reason, he isn't in the 5th movie.....I'm confused 😕.
Optimus not holding back also means that he is not very strong as he always gets defeated first then later defeats them
So this tells us Optimus best strength isn’t his fighting ability but more on his strategy
Sword thing is big no, swords work against megatron, but megatron, is gladiator, he was raised as warrior, Orion Pax was ordinary bot who became Prime later. They have history together before fall of cybertron thats why he called him brother. Then we need to look that movies are made based on what looks cool in the moment and less on the universe of franchise. Bayformers have different explanations through all movies so searching for logic there is meh, but fights, they are simpler, Its like fighting in rl, some soldiers die, some survive, thats it, some die in battles and some in car accidents, this is same thing, maybe optimus was holding back, maybe not, Probably he wanted to speak to Megatron as old ally, to try to make reason with him as optimus is known for in another tf universes. And lets not forget Optimus wants his home back and it was constant choosing between allspark and survival of race or destroying it with hope of ending war. I dont think Optimus held back, but he had head full of IFs. Tf2 was simpler, there is Sam, I must protect him. Third one was fighting against someone you adored before, bringing brokn heart into fight.
YAP YAP YAP YAP YAP, Keep Yapping. The main thing is Optimus is HIM Bro. Wasn't Megatron, Sentinal Prime and other villians supposed to win against Optimus???
@@WilliamReaper They did. Sam killed Megatron while Optimus was just lying there. Optimus did not kill him.
Megatron beat up Sentinel Prime from a sneak attack. Which SAVED Optimus Prime's life! Then Optimus killed a wounded, blind, paralyzed Sentinel.
Both of those villains beat Optimus Prime.
@@prime_bits Oh, i forgot about those facts. It's been ages since i seen the movies mb.
@@WilliamReaper All good dude! Makes sense if you haven't seen the movie(s) in a while.
You should do a video of which megatron mode is the strongest in the bayverse
@@Gamingwithalexander26 I actually did already make a video about that if you are interested.
@@prime_bitswhere? (Give me the link if you can)
Also when he looked at tesa Galvatron took advantage and kicked Optimus in the face
Kind of, after Optimus took his eyes off Tessa, Optimus still had a split second before Galvatron landed the kick.
Galvatron even started to get ready to kick before Optimus looked at Tessa. Galvatron was going to kick Optimus either way there probably.
bro i was said to myself its cause he saw his friends die, it be by video how cade showed him or just seeing them die, cause he also watched them die on cybertron, and one seen when he sees how the humans have slaughtered ratchet him and the autobots raid the base but you can clearly see optimus holding back on firing his weapon like he was scared to fire at humans while every other autobot fired there weapons
It also doesnt mean he is a Psychopath whoever calls him a psychopath is wrong since he is trying to protect humanity & his friends & him not holding back make sense since the decepticons are the true psychopath since they are trying to kill humans & his friends its kill or be killed & war you have to make a tough choice to kill the enemy who is trying to kill your friends or any innocent bystanders
Optimus isn’t holding back, but he wasn’t in the right mindset to fight sentinel: he never dodged and was just attacking (just attacking the shield), and calling sentinel really angrily!
And versus megatron:
First fight Optimus lost because megatron charged at Optimus pinned him down and then fired his gun and Optimus couldn’t come back from the flight as fast as megatron and he only could fire his gun
But in the final fight Optimus was fighting megatron somewhat equally (in the background vs blackout and before the missle strike megatron kicked Optimus’s head but before he got striked he was far away from Optimus and Sam so he had to be pushed or thrown away)
So eventhough Optimus was still inferior to megatron in the final battle he would probably be stronger in his knightform
Somewhat equally is just wrong Megatron was absolutely clowning Op during those scenes Megatron hit Optimus about 8 times Megatron got hit 2 times
@@Supermasist if it was so then why did they fight at the same place the whole time. Megatron 07 is a brawler and like throwing people around. But Optimus fought him in the same place until we got close up fighting scenes but even then Optimus was able to push megatron away from himself and sam offscreen (read the last part of my comment)
Or maybe he once a marauder ,a gladiator and with experience in the battle he knows how to counter others weapons such like sword
He was a Knight before, so he was kind of a Gladiator.
As much hate the Bayverse transformers get they are more relatable than a lot of other transformers media transformers Prime also is like that but in a more animated way Optimus in the Bayverse had to watch as his team was slowly killed at times being unable to help he's seen someone he thought was gone for good to crawl out of his grave to fight him again. He's seen innocence die in human kind and his own allies he's seen betrayal.
Nemesis prime is a proof that optimus prime always hold back!
@@Hastres2023 How so?
Wrong Nemesis just has a more brutal fighting style than Optimus.
I have a controversial question. was Soundwave, Barricade & Decepticons executing Que/Wheeljack a War Crime?
Or! Optimus Prime executing Sentinel Prime & Megatron a War Crime despite the evil act caused by Megatron and Sentinel? U should try making a short video about it?
Maybe, I don't know much about War Crimes. I think both of those technically were. But then again, there Cybertronians, they might have different rules about War Crimes.
They don’t adhere to Earth laws so probably not.
Cybertronian Warfare is probably different compared to Human Warfare.
3:54 😂😂😂
Plus megaton was a gladiator so it’s obvious melee weapons don’t work too well against him
To a degree yes Optimus Prime is holding back if he wasn't theres tons of various weapons and tools he could be using to if humans weren't soft targets also in the way. Like street lights if optimius was fighting dirty those would be perfect for spearing decepticons through shoulders. Also if Optimus Prime was fighting serious all the time he'd keep the trailer on his rear 24/7 ready at all times to go full flight mode in the 3rd and even 4th movies.
Heck the only time we see optimus prime actually fight seriously as a transformer is the Rise of The Fallen fight 3v1, the ending fight in Rise of the fallen after getting the upgrade, the ending to Dark Side, and the Last Knight. All the other movies Optimus is clearly not using full kit or is clearly holding back.
The only time we actually see Optimus Prime go full cut throat is really the "I've come for the staff scene."
3:55 what did he do😭🙏😭🙏😭🙏
And The last knight scene where Optimus use his sword against Megatrone i disagre. 1) He cut off Megatrone hand with sword so swords working against Megatrone 2) Megatrone pinned optimus because Optimus was in bad position after saving Bumblebee and Megatrone is bigger but Optimus kick out Megatron so he won.
But when humans are around he cant fight like when peoples arent here because he isnt focusing 100% on the fight but only like 75% and 25% about surouding humans because he dont wanna kill them. And with Sentinel he wasnt holding back but was angry and that is why he lose (for example Optimus punching Sentinels shield like 3 times when Sentinel was pinned down).
Ture all those other shorts saying he was holding back is like me saying megatron was toying with him, which was true. Prime gave it his all, and sentinel was a prime example when he beat him optimus beg for his life, if that's not him risking his life that badly I don't know what is?
@@Leviathan1000 Exactly.
@@prime_bitsand another thing people bring up is, tf2 megatron was stronger then tf1 cause of the kick damage difference, in the city the kick didn't break prime mouth guard but in tf2 it did but then I after comparing the two I remember saying yeah reason is 07 megatron wasn't being serious were tf2 was trying to kill prime. Pretty much proves the claims 07 was the goat!
Optimus brutality is justified. Idc.
Yeah, it is, he has been through a lot.
Exactly
I disagree, the fight with galvatron he held back, because if he went full, he would’ve killed Tessa in the fight
I love the logic of prime he gives em one chance then he will kill u real hero doesn’t let them get up and keep hurting people
I prove to you that rotf meg is stronger than t1 meg: megatron in t1 kicked optimus so hard but didn't do any damage to him, but in rotf megatron did a lot of damage to optimus, megatron in t1 runs very slow, while in rotf he runs fast with ez, in t1 megatron threw optimus with two hand and fell on his knees,while in rotf megatron threw optimus with on hand and barely fell on his knees. Thats all for today and don't forget about this
I know what you mean with Optimus vs megatron in TF1 but it’s been confirmed that he was holding back in TF1 HEAR ME OUT!!!!
Optimus hoped he wouldnt have to kill Megatron because he’d hoped he’d change someday he only wanted to defeat him when Megatron died Optimus said “you left me no choice brother” meaning he didn’t want Megatron dead so he wasn’t fighting his hardest also when Optimus n Megatron shot each other if Optimus dodged up the way which he could’ve the blast would’ve hit the humans behind them so Optimus took that damage on purpose and Optimus n Megatron fell off the roof Optimus took more damage after that there wasn’t a lot of humans around so Optimus for harder off screen but he was badly hurt so Megatron won
ALSO Optimus’s swords would’ve been effective in that fight he didn’t use them because he was holding back. galvatron and Megatron are not the same
His line "You left me no choice brother" means what it says. Megatron left him no choice but to fight and try to kill him.
Optimus also shot Megatron in the chest, if he was holding back, he wouldn't have done that.
And I also explained in the video why humans don't affect Optimus, unless they are in imminent danger. In fact, him getting hit by the shot was worse than him dodging it (if he could). He got flung into a building which caused more damage than if he had simply dodged the shot.
And I don't think Optimus got hurt from falling from the building, at least not enough to hinder him. He took way more of a beating during the Forest Battle and he kept on fighting just fine.
@@prime_bits when he said “you left me no choice brother” the pain in his voice meant that this is not what he wanted to happen
One shot to chest to megatron wouldn’t kill him even u know that remember Optimus is trying to stop Megatron the shot to the chest would only slow Megatron down
If he dodged (which he could’ve) that would’ve kill the ppl in the building Optimus hit the building killed no one think about it Optimus knows how megatrons weapons work he had alot of time to dodge that’s the only reason he didn’t
He definitely was hurt falling frm the building because when he said “its you and megatron” u can see how slow he got up megatron got up faster and proceeded to body slam Optimus and throw him after that off screen Optimus was put up a fight not holding back anymore because most of the humans were gone But the damage was done and Optimus was injured so we lost
@@MCKSAINT There was actually a scrapped line in DOTM where Optimus says something similar about Sentinel. And Optimus wasn't holding back against Sentinel (I explained that). So just because Optimus said that in 2007, that doesn't mean he was holding back.
Think about it, one shot from Megatron's gun into a building, or, a giant robot being flung into a building. Tanking that shot is more risky than just dodging it. It is more likely that Optimus would crush someone since he is way bigger than Megatron's blast.
Like I said earlier, even if Optimus was hurt from the fall, it shouldn't have affected him. He took way more of a beating during the Forest Battle. And he kept on fighting while being more damaged. Optimus can take a beating and still fight, even if he is hurt.
And I also explained in the video that humans don't affect Optimus, unless they are in imminent danger. He almost steps on some humans showing that.
@@prime_bitsI know Optimus wasn’t holding back against sentinel
That of the matter is Optimus flying into the building is that he did crush anyone everyone was ok
The forest battle is different the only 2 big blows Optimus took was getting kicked in the face and got shot by Megatrons fusion Canon which we already saw Optimus can tank that Optimus was dragged while sliding down the building by megatron which made the fall harder so he was badly damaged
Almost stepping on someone and stepping on someone one are two very different things he still has to focus on megatron while being careful where he steps
@@MCKSAINT Yeah, everyone was ok, but it is more dangerous still.
I still don't think Optimus falling caused him to be injured, or at least not enough to affect him. He got up and kept fighting. He looked way more battle-damaged during the Forrest Battle. He also killed Megatron in TF3, with one arm while being more wounded than he was in TF1 as well.
He clearly almost steps on 2 humans right before he shoots Megatron. Like I said, unless humans are in imminent danger, they don't bother him.
And even if Optimus was damaged, and it did affect him after the fall. Megatron was still winning before that.
Optimus prime doesn’t hold back because in the beavers movies his sadness turns into rage because of all the friends he lost along the side of the movies and the comics because I remember in the first 2007 movie that Megatron actually had a spear and stabbed the dead autobot corpse and jazz got ripped in half by Megatron when Optimus wasn’t in Mission city but In TF rotf the arcee twins were killed when Optimus prime was dead, and Jetfire technically sacrificed himself to power up Optimus prime to defeat the fallen and transformers dark of the moon, sensational prime brutally killed Ironhide with the cosmic rust gun, and Optimus was raged in that moment, because that was the weapon specialist as he said the first ever live action movie transformers age of extinction ratchet was killed by lockdown because lockdown threatened ratchet. Tell him where location of Optimus prime ratchet was killed by lockdown, and after that cemetery wind Lightfoot was killed by cemetery wind, and Optimus clearly said that whenever he finds out who did this, he’s gonna kill him so it clearly states that Optimus was in raged Whenever they showed that ratchet was killed that they were welding down his remains and then in Transformers last night, he becomes nemesis prime, but it’s back to claim state only nemesis prime was brutal but in the beginning of transformers the last knight Optimus wasn’t raged and threaten to kill Quintessa before she hypnotizes Optimus
YOOOOO🔥🔥🔥
IVE HAD ENOUGH. TIME TO SHOW YOU THE REAL POWER OF THE PRIME
Well so it means he gets distracted and not hold back? So that doesn't cjange anything.
Kind of. But it does change a lot.
Like for example, some argue that Optimus was holding back during the entire Lockdown fight because of Cade being there. But that is not true (I explained why).
Optimus only get's distracted, he doesn't hold back when fighting.
@@prime_bits the distraction somewhat servers as a way to hold back, the kick he received from galvatron as an example, he could have defended it but received because he was looking if that girl I forgot her name was okay.
@@Songokulight2467 He could have possibly dodged Galvatron's kick if he hadn't looked at Tessa.
But it is not like he was holding back the entire fight, it was just a moment.
The main thing is some people say that when a human is present, Optimus automatically holds back a ton. Which that is the thing I attempted to de-bunk.
Yes, he does get distracted, but it is not like he is constantly holding back. He fights his hardest to protect the humans.
Dont blame optimus prime for being brutal just remamber in his world the decepticons are real threat and not just villains of the week people died and autobots lost their spark i dont see any healthy person who's going to hold back
i think optimus was distracted and not holding back cuase when your distracted it gives an opening but megatron was gonna win in the 2007 movie if not for sam
@@CHRI3GD I don't think he was distracted. He almost steps on humans in 2007, and he also says "It's you and me Megatron...", so he was focused on Megatron, at least for sure after that.
Yeah your right but sometimes in the other films like age of extinction he got distracted
🗣🔥
3:53 😂
Why sentential
Spot on
I love Optimus Prime
1:43 donald trump
He used his energon axe killed megatron in tf3 why couldn't he use the axe in tf1 and kill megatron in the first place
Well, Optimus didn't have his Axe in 2007. He got his Axe in DOTM.
And an Axe is a little different than a Sword.
Also, Megatron didn't expect Optimus to attack him in TF3, so there is that as well.
Tf1 prime Vs megatron Who is actually stronger
@@Master-123-h8u Well at least in TF1, Optimus was not holding back against Megatron, and Megatron beat him pretty badly.
So Megatron was definitely stronger in 2007.
So why didn't he use his energon sorwds
@@Master-123-h8u I explained that in the video.
Ok 😅😅😅
First film he was def holding back bro
I just explained why he wasn't in TF1, do you have evidence to support your claim?
@@prime_bitsI mean u can argue it…Optimus was going against deception’s in a tight space that being mission city & plenty of humans around so it was somewhat hard for him to maneuver the way we all know he could..plus in the second movie Optimus had more space and less confinement & more possibilities which he manages to take and compete with megatron and was dominating him and eventually with megatron even getting help which overtime wasn’t enough for megatron to overcome prime so it’s interesting if u ask me
Sentinel can't beat megratron
Megatron can't beat Optimus
Optimus can't beat srntinal
Bro, sounds like Trans Theory ,or what was Trans Theory
The people who liked ROTB primes's "calm, kind, not killer nature" are the people who claim that bayverse prime is a psychotic, insane. Its funny because ROTB bland, trash movie flopped proves that the bayverse haters are few, but they do bark a lot and loud😂.
Reason why bayvese Optimus becomes a psychopath because he got ptsd of his friends and family died with him this leads him to be more ruthless than Megatron meaninghe's blinded by rage
But also it's crazy how rotb Optimus iterally give scourge the mortal combat treatment
@justinjaycaro1935 yup HAHAHAA