Thank you Shiro... This was a big help in getting my first steps in refreshing/moving forward my learning on explicit and implicit knowledge! Your video was clear, detailed, well-paced and benefitted from charts and colors.
Hello Mr. Shiro Ojima. I am now learning my 7th language (without teachers). I always try to reach at least an intermediate level (B2). After so many years enjoying a few good teachers and suffering tons of ineffective (boring mechanical, grammar focused) teachers, I can only say that your presentation is simply EXCELLENT!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you so much! 🙏
I like how this presentation is both succinct and yet offers concrete examples. I think it’s quite useful for language teachers and language learners alike. Mindless, mechanical fill-in-the blank grammatical exercises are still far too prevalent in classrooms… my take-away is that if you are forced to cover such exercises in the classroom you should at least try to be communicative. For instance by asking yourself, “when can I use this?” “What does the sentence mean as a whole?” And then attempt to role-play it, if it is indeed a useful sentence. この動画がとても役に立ちました。どうもありがとうございます。
Thank you. I have learned English essentially through explicit teaching and I finally acquired it. I learned English at school in the 90s where I didn't have access to the internet and during which I had never received any input outside of school. In this sense, some research suggests that implicit instruction should be balance with explicit. Also, implicit instruction requires a large amount of input which is not always available. Explicit instruction helps go faster, though cognitively taxing. Finally, Krashen's views about grammar instruction has been largely proven wrong. Even those who held rather similar views do not now go as far as he did.
When I was a high school student, I myself learned English entirely through explicit instruction. Later I managed to turn my explicit knowledge into a usable skill (which I think is not the same as native speakers' implicit knowledge), but this way of learning English does not work well for many Japanese people and a majority of non-elite learners. As you say, there needs to be a good balance between implicit and explicit learning/teaching.
Thank you for this very well-done, well-organized presentation on a very interesting and important topic!! It's very helpful to know where different ideas about language input, output and grammar learning come from.
So this interesting because one of my favorite tools for learning a second language is to find a teacher in your target language who teaches your native language. For starters they speak their own language so you can aquire it. Second, you understand your own language so you can translate it implicitly. Great video. Thank You!
I really enjoyed this video, what a great explanation between the two. This is helping me to focus my studies and progress in learning French. Thank you very much.👍
From my experience of language learning, my feeling is that the weak interface position is correct, however I find the strong interface position very interesting. I had never before considered the idea that with practice you can proceduralise meta knowledge to the point that it causes automatic responses akin to acquired language. I don't know if it's true, but that is fascinating as a concept.
Actually, there are many SLA researchers out there who believe it is possible to procedualize explicit knowledge, but I think procedualized explicit knowledge is still different in nature from true implicit knowledge. Anyway, the explicit/implicit distinction is one of the key issues in the current SLA research and also has a lot of significance for L2 learners and teachers. Many thanks for sharing your idea.
@@shiroojima1810 My main concern would be in explicit knowledge leading to "overcorrection". I have encountered people when speaking their L2 who say something grammatically correct the first time, but then their monitor takes over and they "correct" themselves into saying something grammatically incorrect. If such a system became proceduralised, I would wonder if it could lead to bad outcomes.
@@ПитерАнгличанин That’s an interesting possibility. I haven’t seen much research on overcorrection but there’s some anecdotes about it. Perhaps a similar phenomenon is where L2 learners try to pay too much attention to, say, certain L2 sounds which are difficult to pronounce and end up pronouncing other similar but easier sounds just like those more difficult sounds. For example, Japanese speakers find it difficult to pronounce /r/ sounds and I’ve heard some insert /r/ where they shouldn’t. Anyway, if overcorrection, as you put it, gets proceduralized, it could lead to bad outcomes. Thanks for the insight.
I belive this thinks for languge: languge is implict and you need input (like krashen said) but explicit languge knowledge is only for writing aka. Eddeting books, news etc. and you can't disconet languge from culture.
I am compelled by the ‘no interface’ position. In my mind the most compelling feature is that they have a way of accounting for the other positions’ apparent success, which is not true for the strong interface position. If the ‘no interface’ is true, then people following the other methods could still learn the L2, even to some degree implicitly, *in spite* of their method, because they are receiving natural input as a way of attempting to ‘proceduralize’ the explicit input. Thus even if their method was theoretically wrong they could still acquire the L2 with some degree of implicit knowledge over time due to the input. However the *fact* that many adults do learn L2’s to fluency completely through natural input (perhaps with ‘speaking practice’ in later stages simply to allow the mouth to get used to bringing the implicit knowledge out into conversation) shows that explicit knowledge is not necessary for the acquisition of L2, and seems to slow it down, rather than ‘help’, by bringing the monitor into play. The problem for most people is that learning via implicit knowledge alone requires patience due to the slow initial return. My humble thoughts…
Thanks for sharing your insightful thoughts with us. As you say, learning implicitly takes a long time. Many adults and older adolescents can’t really bear it. For younger children, implicit learning is the only option, and I’ve seen children with a massive amount of L2 input end up attaining such a high level of proficiency, even in countries like Japan.
My understanding was that the proceduralization of explicit knowledge comes through production practice. . . as in if you practice using the language enough and you, for example, learn chunks of language instead of individual words, you can achieve something close to automaticity with time. I'm a very curious person, so I like to ask lots of questions about the logic of the language very early on to clear things up that are confusing or to confirm my hunches. As adults, this is one of our advantages in language learning over children, I think, and it can help us learn some things about a language more quickly than children do. I think the farther apart your L1 and target language are, the more value there may be in acquiring some explicit knowledge. There are just some patterns and principles that you may never figure out otherwise. I'm learning Jordanian Arabic right now, which is very different from English.
@@rashidah9307 Just to clarify one thing. Production practice is necessary for proceduralization, but not all kinds of production practice are helpful. Research suggests that mechanical, decontextualized production practice does not really work. So practice needs to be embedded in authentic communications or exchanges of meanings. I guess this is what you meant by production practice. Another point I like about your view is that you recognize the importance of explicit knowledge when our second language is quite different from our first. If they are similar, perhaps all you need is massive exposure, but if they are different as in the case of L1 Japanese - L2 English, explicit knowledge about the L2 can be helpful to figure out how the grammar of the L2 works.
@@shiroojima1810 thanks so much for your thoughtful response! Yes, I primarily meant conversation practice or activities like sending voice recordings to friends in terms of production practice that leads to proceduralization. But I also find that using the Anki flashcard app to practice producing phrases and sentences helps me to prepare for real-world communication practice. It enables me to put sentences together a little more efficiently without having to think of every single word. . . However, my Anki decks mostly come from real-life conversations with my online Arab friends and my iTalki teacher, so even they have context and meaning for me.
@@rashidah9307 The name of your flashcard app, "Anki", sounds like a Japanese word, which literally means learning by heart or rote memorization. I imagine you use the app to memorize not only single words but also chunks and sentences. In recent SLA research, the importance of so-called formulaic expressions has been recognized. So I guess your Arabic learning really nicely follows SLA theories!
Your accent is so thick yet i am still able to understand EVERY SINGLE WORD without subtitles while watching this video in 2X speed. and my english is not even good
If someone describes something explicitly and you hear it, that description will become explicit knowledge for you. For example, if the teacher says English is an SVO language where the object follows the verb and you hear this explicit description, it will be part of your explicit knowledge. However, that does not mean that you have acquired the English word order as part of your implicit knowledge (or as a skill). You’ve written verbal or non-verbal “activity”, but explicit knowledge is not always about activity. It can be about a thing or an event.
Luca Lampariello brought me here
Me too!
Same
Me too
Thank you Shiro... This was a big help in getting my first steps in refreshing/moving forward my learning on explicit and implicit knowledge! Your video was clear, detailed, well-paced and benefitted from charts and colors.
Glad to hear that the video helped. Keep learning!
I would just like to say 1 year later, I need to be refreshed on this again, thanks again Shiro!
Hello Mr. Shiro Ojima, I really got clear from your explanations. Thanks you so much for this sharing.
Glad to hear the video helped
Hello Mr. Shiro Ojima. I am now learning my 7th language (without teachers). I always try to reach at least an intermediate level (B2). After so many years enjoying a few good teachers and suffering tons of ineffective (boring mechanical, grammar focused) teachers, I can only say that your presentation is simply EXCELLENT!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Thank you so much! 🙏
I like how this presentation is both succinct and yet offers concrete examples. I think it’s quite useful for language teachers and language learners alike. Mindless, mechanical fill-in-the blank grammatical exercises are still far too prevalent in classrooms… my take-away is that if you are forced to cover such exercises in the classroom you should at least try to be communicative. For instance by asking yourself, “when can I use this?” “What does the sentence mean as a whole?” And then attempt to role-play it, if it is indeed a useful sentence. この動画がとても役に立ちました。どうもありがとうございます。
Glad to know that the video was useful. Thank you also for sharing your thoughts, which I found are very insightful for teachers and learners.
Hello, watching this video helped me to finish my SLA mid term paper. Thank you for the simple yet effective presentation.
Thank you. I have learned English essentially through explicit teaching and I finally acquired it. I learned English at school in the 90s where I didn't have access to the internet and during which I had never received any input outside of school. In this sense, some research suggests that implicit instruction should be balance with explicit. Also, implicit instruction requires a large amount of input which is not always available. Explicit instruction helps go faster, though cognitively taxing. Finally, Krashen's views about grammar instruction has been largely proven wrong. Even those who held rather similar views do not now go as far as he did.
When I was a high school student, I myself learned English entirely through explicit instruction. Later I managed to turn my explicit knowledge into a usable skill (which I think is not the same as native speakers' implicit knowledge), but this way of learning English does not work well for many Japanese people and a majority of non-elite learners. As you say, there needs to be a good balance between implicit and explicit learning/teaching.
Agreed. I would;d say that Krashen's narrow and highly dogmatic approach can hold back many a potential learner.
Thank you Shiro! That was very very helpful.
Glad to hear the video was helpful!
Thank you for this very well-done, well-organized presentation on a very interesting and important topic!! It's very helpful to know where different ideas about language input, output and grammar learning come from.
So this interesting because one of my favorite tools for learning a second language is to find a teacher in your target language who teaches your native language.
For starters they speak their own language so you can aquire it. Second, you understand your own language so you can translate it implicitly.
Great video. Thank You!
Thanks. It was informative and easy to follow.
I really enjoyed this video, what a great explanation between the two. This is helping me to focus my studies and progress in learning French. Thank you very much.👍
From my experience of language learning, my feeling is that the weak interface position is correct, however I find the strong interface position very interesting. I had never before considered the idea that with practice you can proceduralise meta knowledge to the point that it causes automatic responses akin to acquired language. I don't know if it's true, but that is fascinating as a concept.
Actually, there are many SLA researchers out there who believe it is possible to procedualize explicit knowledge, but I think procedualized explicit knowledge is still different in nature from true implicit knowledge. Anyway, the explicit/implicit distinction is one of the key issues in the current SLA research and also has a lot of significance for L2 learners and teachers. Many thanks for sharing your idea.
@@shiroojima1810 My main concern would be in explicit knowledge leading to "overcorrection". I have encountered people when speaking their L2 who say something grammatically correct the first time, but then their monitor takes over and they "correct" themselves into saying something grammatically incorrect. If such a system became proceduralised, I would wonder if it could lead to bad outcomes.
@@ПитерАнгличанин That’s an interesting possibility. I haven’t seen much research on overcorrection but there’s some anecdotes about it. Perhaps a similar phenomenon is where L2 learners try to pay too much attention to, say, certain L2 sounds which are difficult to pronounce and end up pronouncing other similar but easier sounds just like those more difficult sounds. For example, Japanese speakers find it difficult to pronounce /r/ sounds and I’ve heard some insert /r/ where they shouldn’t. Anyway, if overcorrection, as you put it, gets proceduralized, it could lead to bad outcomes. Thanks for the insight.
Thanks for your awesome video. Greetings from Argentina
Glad to hear you liked it
From the bottom of my heart, thank you so much.
Who came here after watching Luca?
I belive this thinks for languge: languge is implict and you need input (like krashen said) but explicit languge knowledge is only for writing aka. Eddeting books, news etc.
and you can't disconet languge from culture.
ブラジル人の言語学者にインタビューしたポリグロットのLucca lamparielloを通じて、司郎さんのビデオを見つかって、司郎さんのプレゼンテーションが気に入りました。登録者になりました。
ブラジルから挨拶しております。
アレクサンダーさん、ビデオを見てくれてありがとうございました。ポルトガル語、英語だけでなく、日本語も分かるのですか？素晴らしいですね！
私もLuccaさん経由でこのチャンネルを発見できました♫
I would like to echo the same comments as below:)
Great great presentation, man!
I am compelled by the ‘no interface’ position. In my mind the most compelling feature is that they have a way of accounting for the other positions’ apparent success, which is not true for the strong interface position. If the ‘no interface’ is true, then people following the other methods could still learn the L2, even to some degree implicitly, *in spite* of their method, because they are receiving natural input as a way of attempting to ‘proceduralize’ the explicit input. Thus even if their method was theoretically wrong they could still acquire the L2 with some degree of implicit knowledge over time due to the input. However the *fact* that many adults do learn L2’s to fluency completely through natural input (perhaps with ‘speaking practice’ in later stages simply to allow the mouth to get used to bringing the implicit knowledge out into conversation) shows that explicit knowledge is not necessary for the acquisition of L2, and seems to slow it down, rather than ‘help’, by bringing the monitor into play. The problem for most people is that learning via implicit knowledge alone requires patience due to the slow initial return.
My humble thoughts…
Thanks for sharing your insightful thoughts with us. As you say, learning implicitly takes a long time. Many adults and older adolescents can’t really bear it. For younger children, implicit learning is the only option, and I’ve seen children with a massive amount of L2 input end up attaining such a high level of proficiency, even in countries like Japan.
My understanding was that the proceduralization of explicit knowledge comes through production practice. . . as in if you practice using the language enough and you, for example, learn chunks of language instead of individual words, you can achieve something close to automaticity with time. I'm a very curious person, so I like to ask lots of questions about the logic of the language very early on to clear things up that are confusing or to confirm my hunches. As adults, this is one of our advantages in language learning over children, I think, and it can help us learn some things about a language more quickly than children do. I think the farther apart your L1 and target language are, the more value there may be in acquiring some explicit knowledge. There are just some patterns and principles that you may never figure out otherwise. I'm learning Jordanian Arabic right now, which is very different from English.
@@rashidah9307 Just to clarify one thing. Production practice is necessary for proceduralization, but not all kinds of production practice are helpful. Research suggests that mechanical, decontextualized production practice does not really work. So practice needs to be embedded in authentic communications or exchanges of meanings. I guess this is what you meant by production practice. Another point I like about your view is that you recognize the importance of explicit knowledge when our second language is quite different from our first. If they are similar, perhaps all you need is massive exposure, but if they are different as in the case of L1 Japanese - L2 English, explicit knowledge about the L2 can be helpful to figure out how the grammar of the L2 works.
@@shiroojima1810 thanks so much for your thoughtful response! Yes, I primarily meant conversation practice or activities like sending voice recordings to friends in terms of production practice that leads to proceduralization. But I also find that using the Anki flashcard app to practice producing phrases and sentences helps me to prepare for real-world communication practice. It enables me to put sentences together a little more efficiently without having to think of every single word. . . However, my Anki decks mostly come from real-life conversations with my online Arab friends and my iTalki teacher, so even they have context and meaning for me.
@@rashidah9307 The name of your flashcard app, "Anki", sounds like a Japanese word, which literally means learning by heart or rote memorization. I imagine you use the app to memorize not only single words but also chunks and sentences. In recent SLA research, the importance of so-called formulaic expressions has been recognized. So I guess your Arabic learning really nicely follows SLA theories!
Your accent is so thick yet i am still able to understand EVERY SINGLE WORD without subtitles while watching this video in 2X speed. and my english is not even good
So explicit knowledge is about giving description about non-verbal or verbal activity.
If someone describes something explicitly and you hear it, that description will become explicit knowledge for you. For example, if the teacher says English is an SVO language where the object follows the verb and you hear this explicit description, it will be part of your explicit knowledge. However, that does not mean that you have acquired the English word order as part of your implicit knowledge (or as a skill).
You’ve written verbal or non-verbal “activity”, but explicit knowledge is not always about activity. It can be about a thing or an event.
I wish there was a Japanese version too, for my students. Maybe I will make one. Lol