Hot take, not a single top 5 first baseman were on the free agent market, and teams aren’t paying top 5 money for someone who isn’t top 5 at the position
@@tommykahnleburner Yes Walker, one of the other Top 10 1st Baseman free agents this year. I can see you're a Dodgers fan so please try to keep up champ lol.
@Chaser3d18 it's even funnier since Walker went off at Dodgers stadium last year. Roberts intentionally walked him so he didn't have to deal with him. If Walker isn't in your top 5 you're probably a bit biased and he's definitely number 6 no questions asked...
No one values a good first baseman until they get a bad one who can't scoop up that in between hop that at the end of the year you come to realize how many runs and innings he could have saved your pitching staff and how many wins he could have added to the season standings. Plus, a good hitting first baseman is always appreciated.
Actually, major league teams are 100 percent aware of this. They hire people with graduate degrees in statistics and pay them to track all this and a lot more minutia and work out equations to figure exactly this sort of thing. But maybe they would be better off relying on the general impressions of TH-cam comment sections.
I think its the other way around. You take a good bat and convert him to 1B knowing that its a “learnable position” at the ML level. Joe Mauer, Scott Hatteberg (famously) miggy, vladdy jr. if you provide +20 runs with your bat in a seaons and cost your team 10 from your poor defense youre still a net positive to the team
Defensive 1st basemen dont save alot of runs, thats the point. It doesn't mean you want a BAD defensive 1st basemen but its a spot you can hide a good bat
is not about money; it is about the amount of years. Mets can give Pete Alonso 2 years 40 mill, but he wouldn't take it. He's not even better than Freeman. Nobody wants to stay with an aging 1B at high AAV. The Mets threw the bag at him, but he betted on himself and undervalued the organization, and still they offered 90 mil 3 years with options to opt out, and he still declined. Its called "GREED.". There's a time decay;; the more he waits, the less he's going to get. Every team is set.
In this situation, he definitely undervalued the team. Cohen made a fair offer and you can see by the current offer that the message is sent that you shouldn’t be turning down a more than fair offer. On top of that, it seems like no matter how Alonso performed he was looking for 200 million or more.
I think the problem is people want to pay these superstars ridiculously long overvalued contracts. People look at Soto and go he produced 7.9 war he got 12y 52m AVV….i produce 5 war so I should be worth 8 and 30m+ AVV…..when actually Soto ain’t worth that much and is warping theI expectations of the good not great players. Edit: All you people saying Soto is worth it. 1 WAR is worth 4.5m. Soto produced 7.9 war so he’s worth around 35.55 AVV. Maybe he has a few great seasons and gets you over 10 WAR and comes close to value but odds are he will produce a huge negative net return
Pete has a career war of 19.8; last year was 2.6; is a lot older than SOTO; and has been on a decline for the last 2 years. He can't even hit the breaking ball. SOTO has a career WAR of 36.4 and historical OBP. There's no comparison, which is why every team, including Boston, the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, and Toronto, was willing to go to the 700. He's a generational talent.
Soto got what he got due to his age and career numbers. The fact that he's 26 and his numbers are really only compatible to Ted Williams. He's a once in a lifetime hitter. All that other stuff you said is BS did he change the market of course the MLBPA has a system set up designed to do so. Bats and arms have always been more valued than being a great defender. The recent hall of fame ballads should prove that to you.
Another thing is these contracts are in part because these teams take advantage of all these players in rookie deals and arbitration. It's criminal how long MLB players have to wait to hit the market. Soto being 26 and on the market is rare that's why he got the money any other opinion on the matter is honestly bull shit no matter how valid people may think it may be
Soto is not worth nearly as much as Shohei, he is 35m AAV at best. A good player should cost 15m. It's the handful of the big market teams that drives up this insane player price inflation
I remember a Mets fan on Twitter asking during the middle of the season that the Mets were fools to not give Pete Alonso an extension for $250M/10. I laughed because Matt Olson, a 2x gold glover who hit 54 HRs 139 RBI (both leading all of baseball) along with an NL leading .604 slugging % and a 164 OPS+ had signed with the Braves for $168M/8. Even with as big of a down year as Olson had last season he still had a 3.8 WAR vs Alonso’s 2.6 WAR. 1B is such a negligible position defensively that instead of putting your worst defender in LF (since there’s a lot of full time DHs now that would be like a deer in headlights playing defense anywhere on the dies) teams now put them at 1B. Well Alonso is such a terrible defender at the easiest defensive position in baseball, a position he’s played for all of his collegiate and MLB career, that the Mets, or any other team who inks Alonso, will have to make him a full time DH. If Matt Olson for $168M/8 ($21M annually) while being easily 1 of the top 5 1B in all of baseball and having flashed signs that he’s the best at that position in the game, how much does Alonso seriously expect? Being that Alonso is a Boras agent, I expect him to sign a deal similar to what Cody Bellinger signed ($75M/3 with opt outs after every season) except maybe a little bit less. There’s no way Alonso is getting a long term deal unless he settles for like $125M-$140M over 8 years. Will be very interesting to see how things pan out for him and if he stays in New York. I don’t think there’s any way the Mets have interest in him for more than 3 years. Remember, Soto will be moving to DH (or possibly even 1B) much sooner than people think.
All true and you didn't even mention the best 1B in all of baseball IMO, Freddie Freeman who also signed a pretty reasonable deal for a player of that caliber.
oh believe me as a lifelong Braves fan I realize the value of Freddie Freeman. Freeman did have a pretty drastic drop off last season though. He still was arguably the best 1B in baseball last year though because he was so good the year before he just dropped from an MVP level to an All Star level. It’ll be interesting to see how his contract ends up playing out. Paul Goldschmidt went from winning NL MVP 2 years ago at exactly the same age Freeman was this past season to being basically an average hitter in 2024. Freeman is much more of a contact guy than Goldschmidt was and as legendary as Goldy is (6-7 years ago if you would’ve told someone that Freddie Freeman would end up having a better career than Paul Goldschmidt they would’ve asked you how much you wanted to bet on it) he was actually showing serious decline in bad speed even around 2020. Will be VERY interesting to see how this all ends up playing out. Freeman ended up taking just a little bit more than what the Braves were offering him but when you consider how much of his contract (most of his contract) was in deferred money and then adding in absurd California state income taxes to Georgia’s much more modest number Freeman actually ended up getting way less from the Dodgers. When you take into account that Freeman started crying when he returned to Atlanta and literally fired his agent days after finally talking to Braves GM Alex Anthopolous again during that one and only series the Dodgers played in Atlanta that year (and every year. You play teams outside your division but in your league only one series at home and one series away) you really have to wonder how much Freeman still regrets the mistake. Winning is nice. I’m sure he’s feeling pretty good about winning WS MVP and another championship in LA. I’m very interested though to see how those final 3 years play out compared to how Olson’s final 5 years as a Brave play out. Freeman for $162M/6 while Olson got $168M/8. They finished 3rd and 4th, respectively, in MVP voting in 2023 although they had contrasting seasons. Olson led baseball in HRs & RBIs along with the NL in slugging % while Freddie dominated hitting for a much higher average but half almost half as many homers and fewer walks. But then Olson had a really bad 2024 while Freeman had a dip but, again, was still top notch. Really want to see how that goes
As a Mets fan, Alonso is better than most people think defensively; but he is declining definitely. He is such a big fan of New York and being a Met, that it is hard for a lot of us fans to see him go because he wants to be here. Even though he’s not the best first baseman in baseball; he is better than most and we haven’t had a 1B who is good in so long…. It’s complicated, but we love Pete.
@@eaglewinnings8003idk maybe that drop off came because he was hurt and had his kid going through a medical emergency for a few weeks so he wasnt all there mentally
@@wingracer1614 I play on casual baseball and softball teams, 1b on some teams, SS on others. Played 1b since I'm 10, and in high school. 1B is vitally important because no one makes perfect throws all the time. Ive had arguments with teammates over this, because they say "Anyone can play 1B" ---and then I put them on 1B and they can't handle throws in the dirt, don't stretch on close plays, and don't know how to make tags if the throw pulls them off the bag. When I'm at 1st, it's game-changing and me diving off the bag has won us some games
@@michaeljjt1976 Yes, all of that is true but it's even more disastrous to have a player like that at short or 2b. And while I would strongly disagree with the statement that anyone can play 1st, the fact is that most people that can play baseball at the MLB level can. Not everyone, but most.
The thing that is weird is that jow both leagues have the DH (ugh, but I digress) so treating First Base as though it's the place to put a weak fielder is sort of redundant. My generation remembers Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez, first basement who settle tone for the overall infield defense, later John Olerud and Tino Martinez did the same.
I think it's just there were plenty of low cost good value options on short term deals available at 1b this year, and when Vladdy and that Japanese 1b are both available next year and they're both hitting free agency at a young age, i think most teams just wanted a low cost option for this year to have a run at one of those two next year, and if they miss out on them then they'll maybe trade for Casas or sign Pete assuming he eventually gets some kind of short term high aav deal with opt outs to try again
One of your colleagues did a video a few years ago about how Goldschmidts 2022 MVP as a first baseman is a more rare sight. But when you dig deeper into the said prince fielder contract, he only played four more years and then broke down. Many good players with good defensive players don’t see those metrics decline nearly at the rate that Goldschmidt or fielders did in their last few seasons. A players offensive skill set can fluctuate in the majors but their defensive metrics are pretty fixed entering the majors.
Don’t forget Ryan Howard in the pantheon of horrible contracts for 1B that seemed good at the time or Albert Pujols who was expected to at least keep his solid bat in the lineup for an AL team as a DH.
Baseball has a lapse in logic that no other sport seems to have. People are saying Pete doesn’t even deserve 3 year 30m deal. But would happily pay an Acuna type 60 mill. Pete is an active big hitter that brings a lot to a team. World Series winners almost always have a good first base. But it’s not appreciated.
Thank you for making this video! I caught and moved to 1st base because I loved the position. I’ve been saying this for what feels like a decade about my RedSox. Organizationally, they just cared so little about the position, they literally thought that you could pick a fan out of the stands and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference defensively. The Sox big deadline move in 2021 was bringing in Kyle Schwarber with the intention of throwing him at 1st , after he’d played a single inning at the position, in LITTLE LEAGUE, in the middle of a PENNANT RACE 🤦🏻♂️ I get it. 1st baseman don’t need to be a Platinum Glove winner. But if you’re talking about a RedSox team who’s struggled with infield defense, and your new Pitching philosophy is to get ground balls, you need a competent 1st baseman. *And don’t get me started on converting Devers to 1st 🙄 There’s my rant 🤷🏻♂️
I miss some of the really good first basemen that could really pick it, it's actually a much more important position than some people believe. Guys like Keith Hernandez that can pick it going to his right and can make the first to third throws. Who holds runners on well. Defense in general has become very systematic and no ability to work on all the different possible situations. It's like people forgot how important situational preparedness is. It's all about performing the big stuff. I miss the old baseball that had all these trick plays, suicide bunts, hit and run and telling understanding how to utilize players defensively and have them prepared for the throw like Volpe had to make going to his right and throwing to third and it was obvious he was very incomeftsblr with it
Another piece of evidence for your thesis on teams not valuing first basemen is who Nathanael Lowe was replaced with: a Jake Burger on league minimum salary who is not anywhere close to as good a fielder as Lowe was. Trading a not too expensive Gold Glover and Silver Slugger for Jake Burger shows that, even aside from money, a lot of modern teams just don't care much about the 1B position itself.
Bleed blue and orange Mets fan here💙🧡:I think you did a great job here with your assessment of how 1B is now perceived by the so called experts. Everything evolves or devolves depending on how one sees it. Because the only thing that is permanent is change👍🏾.
If a guy had a .240 batting average and had 88 RBI in 162 games played in his contract year, how much would you want to pay that guy over the next 5 or 6 years?
Mets specifically are paying Francisco Lindor 34mil AAV to be a better hitter than Pete Alonso while being one of the best defenders at the most premium infield position but Pete wants that kind of money?!?! Make it make sense
Pete Alonso had the best pick rate in 2024 and at least half of those picks were throws by Lindor from literally second base. If the Mets don’t have someone playing there that can pick it, then they’d better move Lindor to second, because he simply can’t make the throw
Red Sox fan here just clarifying, the Sox have reportedly said they don't want to trade Casas unless a really good trade is offered but given their recent moves, they likely will if they can't get Masa out and move Devers to DH, they'd rather have him there but worst comes to worst he goes to first
I know what they've publicly said is not really the story. They're very open to moving him that's what every reporter is saying haha. The Red Sox are just being very careful when discussing it publicly
Great take. It's been going on for awhile. Even 10 years ago, Alonso would have been seen as premium choice and would have signed with the Yankees already. But, if a Utility guy like Ha-Seong Kim is available as well and sign him for 60 million and can also get him, who has the edge. With injuries always on the back of coaches' minds, having guys who are flexible helps a ton.
I’m not sure that prototypical and norm are the right words for teams throwing their clean up hitters at the leadoff slot. Very few teams do that, and even less have a ton of success doing it.
Forgot to mention that earlier in the season, Mets offered Pete 7 years, 152M and Pete said no! Mets are willing to pay Pete but he has to stop taking his advice from Boras and remember that Boras works for him.
@ Fr! This year was his third straight year of not reaching his projected benchmarks. He’s never seeing 7/152 ever again and this offer just goes to show how generous the Mets were to him already. The Mets are Pete’s only serious team right now and they hold all the power!
We traded 3 pitchers 1 back end starter and 2 mid-tier prospects to Cleveland for Spencer Horwitz who they had for a few hours if that. But he’s position flexible and controllable for 6 more years. And we are cheap as shit so there’s that too
In Houston we were ready to rotate both our catchers (Díaz, caratini), our backup first baseman (singleton) and our utility guy (Dubón) all last season. We’ve pivoted to Christian Walker this year after giving up on bregman, so, hoping this works out. Last 3 year deal for a veteran 1B didn’t play out so well.
You can put an iron glove at first, but sooner or later it will become exposed and hurt the team. Boston was forced to put Schwarber there on 2021 ALCS and it hurt them. Arraiz being exposed too. Astros got spoiled with Yuli Gurriel at first for years and they suffered defensively last two seasons with Singleton and Abreu, so they were wise to invest in Walker.
Arraez is not a regular first baseman. He is out there to have his bat in the line up when the team he is on goes after second baseman in trades or free agency.
Every position is devalued. Defense doesn’t matter anymore. Everytime. See a free agent signing I hear “his defense is terrible “. The Yankees literally lost the World Series because they had the worst defensive showing of all time and teams are still not carrying about defense.
Anyone can play first. Back in the day, before the DH, 1B was where aging sluggers played. Mantle, Mays Aaron, Stargell, et al, all spent time at the end of their careers playing there. It's just not that hard to play .... tell him, Wash.
$27.5 mil a year for 6 years for Alonso? Are you crazy? He has 3 seasons as good as this past season in him and then his bat will fall off. For 6 years at most he is worth $90 mil. He could, maybe, get $25 mil a year for 3 years, but a realistic 3 year contract is going to be $20 mil a year, and a team favorable one would be $15 mil a year for 3 years. Dude may be good, but he is too limited to be worth a big contract. I'm using $8 mil a war as the basis of my opinions, with $6 mil as team favorable and $10 mil as player favorable.
@ I agree with you. It would still be an overpay in my opinion because he isn’t as good as Olson or Freeman but we know how Cohen is so he will end up giving him more than that
Alonso is a declining 30 year old who gets on base at barely above league average rate and is not a good defender. Only thing he has going for him is his power stroke and even that is on a decline. 6/165 is very generous.
It's not devalued, the 1st basemen right now just aren't as dominant as previous years compared to other position players. Freeman and Harper, maybe Olson, Alonso doesn't quite reach their level imo. Think back a few years, Freeman, Votto, Cabrera, Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, Thome, Frank Thomas. These guys struck fear into players. Personally I don't see that at the position. There's more big names elsewhere that scare me more. Right now Freeman and Harper are the elites, Olson and Alonso are on the cusp of elite but not quite there. 1st will bounce back at some point.
Is there a stat for 1st basemen that counts how many successful scoops are made to convert the out? Like, if a ball is a certain amount of distance from the bag or if the throw hits the ground before getting to the 1st baseman? I feel like that would be a a decent lens to view the performance of 1st base defense.
juan soto doesn't play horrible defense. he's just not a good defender, maybe even slightly below average. but horrible implies he's a butcher out there...he's not.
@@Baseballlv3rr-c8w yes really. he's a terrible defensive outfielder. nominated for gold gloves means absolutely nothing. a good arm doesn't make up for being slow in the outfield and taking terrible routes to the ball. and I full recognize he's a historically great hitter for his age.
Sorry I don't normally disagree with you, but to say that it's normal now to have a slugger or the best hitter on the team hit leadoff is just very not true. Ohtani and Schwarber are like the only two players where that's the case. Judge literally doesn't hit leadoff
First base is like a wildcard. Some teams have a franchise player at first base while others simply use it as a spot to try to hide a thumper who can't really cover a lot of ground in the outfield and isn't very good at 3rd base. It is also a spot that teams will try to move a good hitting catcher to as he ages out from squatting for 9 innings every night. There is no mystery really in how first baseman are created.
There just aren't as many ridiculous stat 1b atm, I don't think it has anything to do with the position. Soto is an awful defender who will be a DH in 5 years yet got the biggest contract of all time based solely on his bat. If Juan Soto was a 1b would he not have gotten his contract? It's a low defense/speed, typically 3 outcome batter, 30+ HR position. The superstars in this league tend to simply be more often outfielders or SS's. For SS especially, when you have guys like Bobby Witt putting up numbers traditionally only seen at positions like 1b, AND have impeccable defense and speed at the most important position in the game, they're just more valuable. Primary 1b also are typically the least versatile defensively which goes to your point that typically anyone semi-competent can make the switch to 1b. It's why outfielders who got injured like Harper are now 1basemen Trust and believe though that if a 1B comes along with numbers like judge or soto, he'll be getting paid. Vladdy is probably the only one in the near future who qualifies at this position. For the money he wants alonso just isn't worth it. He isn't better than Olson or Freddie Freeman especially.
He bet on himself and this time unfortunately it didn’t payoff. In hindsight, he should have taken the 7 year $158m contract extension. But it was worth a shot waiting till free agency.
I think you're right. Not to mention a good deal of 1B are left-handed, meaning they can only play either 1B or the outfield. And if they're not very fleet of foot, they can only play 1B or DH. Maybe the whole Pujols contract disaster is making people wise to the risks of signing a 1B long-term as well. I think the Sox want to move Devers to either 1B or DH. Thus, they want to trade Yoshida and Casas. Anyone who takes Yoshida's contract has to be insane because he's not worth it. It's hard to be more defensively flexible when you have some slow guy who can only play one position. If the 1B can play 3B as well, there's your versatility. But then they have to be RH.
You have to remember the Mets offered Alosno a 7 year extension deal worth 158 million last year and he turned it down. I personally believe he should've taken that at the time.
How could the Yankees "not like" Pete Alonso? He plays consistent D, has had a league leading bat for years, and his clutch hits led the Mets to the NLCS.
I think its a side effect of the modern game. Used to be you wanted a star 1B just to get major offensive production from that position. Now everybody strikes out all the time. I'm not paying a premium for a player that hits .200 and can't defend.
Ya just cant let go of Cleveland getting Santana bro they have a 1B prospect too (Manzardo) lol at least know things before talking about them. The team needs pitching not 1B they have a ton
I think it's more a case of these two players, instead of the position being treated differently. Players who could no longer play outfield, or 3rd base were always being switched to 1st base. IIRC, Hank Aaron played some 1st base for the Brewers at the end of his career. The greatest 3rd baseman, Mike Schmidt, ended his career as the Phillies 1st baseman. You mention the Dodgers and their flexibility at 1st, but when they signed Freeman, they've used him pretty much every day at first. Of course, they have other players who can play 1st, but then, most players (as you say) can play 1st.
I think the reason Pete Alonso isn’t signed yet is that his asking price for a contract is to much, plus I’ve seen rumors that he isn’t the best clubhouse guy, so that could be another factor for teams
I do think there could still be outliers for 1B. If prime Mark Teixera hit the FA market he would probably have a very aggressive market because of his skill set. The combo of switch-hitting power along with a Gold Glove is a rare commodity. Most of the current crop of available 1B are pretty one-dimensional.
I think everyone has an idea in the back of their mind that they can just reserve first for on of their aging stars who eventually won’t be able to handle everyday catcher/3b/ outfield anymore so they don’t want to shell out money to someone who’ll only play first
Ever since I was a 15 year old playing fantasy baseball with DHL internet, I always wondered why the best hitters batted 4th instead of lead off or 2nd. Throughout the course of a full 162 game season the difference between how many plate appearances a lead off man will get vs the cleanup hitter is not negligible. It’s enough to the point where it can be the difference between a win and a lose in at least a full game. Teams figured this out about 8-10 years ago. I’m 39 now so when this first started happening (I believe around 2016 or so) it felt really validating because I came to the conclusion as a teenage kid in 10th grade and it took MLB GMs a decade and a half longer to figure this out.
i remember thinking the same thing about pitchers win loss records in the mid 90s as a teenager. It is truly amazing we had people paid a lot of money to hand out big contracts based on things that didn't matter. I could at least understand not wanting to hit your best hitter first in the NL before the DH. I also remember when mostly scrappy white guys who couldn't hit much but bunted well would hit 2nd. There was a world series game where Craig Counsel sac bunted 3 times in one game with a man on first and no outs which is atrocious.
1st base is just a spot on the diamond. It's generally the least important position defensively so any power bat can fill the 1st base role unless they are elite at the position. Pete Alonso has just been a poor mans Kyle Schwarber the past two years. Pete is just a prototypical power bat whose had his worst two seasons back to back going into free agency. He's just not worth the money when there are plenty of power bats that can get the job done.
Only the catcher followed by the pitchers touch a baseball more than a first basemen... so the whole premises that nobody values the first baseman position is asinine at best!
Alonso is asking to be paid in the same neighborhood as Francisco Lindor, but he's a bad baserunner and is a below average major league 1B, rather than a top tier baserunner and elite fielding SS. I'm not sure why the Red Sox are shopping Casas, though, since it seems like his hitting floor is something like Mark Grace, which will play when you're strong enough to hit a curve you're fooled by off the Monster one-handed. Just hope he becomes a stalwart 150 game a year guy.
Some of you may have your own difference of opinion BUT when MLB decided to make the DH universal It destroyed the 1B position & the players who dominate it. Historically, some of the BEST DH’s were 1B and some of the BIGGEST BATS were 1B. 1B was always seen as a power hitters position. Jim Thome Jason Giambi Frank Thomas David Ortiz Lyle Overbay Troy Glaus (end of his career) Paul Konerko Albert Pujols Mark Texiera Paul Goldschmidt Ryan Zimmerman Brandon Belt Carlos Delgado Lance Berkman There are many more The position has declined in the last 3-5 years and the NL getting the DH has de-incentivized teams to fill that position with such a skilled player. 1B is now looked at as a position for utility guys, former 3B, former corner outfielders, and has become more similar to the way second basemen looked in the early-mid 2000’s (Marco Scutaro, Kaz Matsui, Brian Roberts, Jayson Nix, Freddy Sanchez) Players with low power & higher fielding and contact value. The position has TOTALLY CHANGED
Christian Walker is an interesting one because his past 2 years are similar to Pete Alonso… 20 mil AAV through 36 is the same as offering Pete 6/120 through age 36
It’s not that teams don’t value 1B, Pete Alonso just doesn’t fit the requirements of the bag he is looking for. This is coming from a Met fan. No one wants a guy that bats fucking .220-.250 on a good day, hitting 30-50 bombs in garbage time while striking out the rest of the time. Teams want people that put the ball in play. Teams are ready to risk their entire farm for a guy like Vlad, who puts the ball in play while also displaying monster numbers. The value has just not been there.
First baseman is just a second DH So when big team have sign some stars extra long contract they will reserve those spots when they playing in late 30s, which diminish the value of existing first baseman. Take dodgers as example, Freeman and Shohei occupy the two DH spots already so they need extra versatility for other player to rotate and create flexibility in line up. And the ninth spot are the new leadoff spot nowadays as contacts hitter are good for helping teams get on base but not so valuable by his own WAR
What is killing 1B is the DH. This is a 50 year trend at this point. 1B was always a position where hitting was primary and defense was negotiable. With DH, a team can now see 1B in a balanced way and seek good defensive play and not really need elite hitting at that position. A situation that was not possible without the DH. We saw this in the AL starting in the early 80s. Now that both leagues are using the Dummy Hitter, they can spend on a dedicated DH and look for a younger 1B who has both offensive and defensive value. Good luck for all you 1B players who are not utility minded.
Hurting players? The worst of the worst are still making millions. Alonso has been offered 30 million a year for three years!!! We should probably save the word "hurting" for school teachers or people making minimum wage.
the casas to mariners proposal isn't the same as some of the other 1st base issues. they're trying to dump salary AND get back a top of the line starter in castillo so it makes sense that mariners declined. casas might be a good enough prospect to get mariners to consider taking a salary dump or a castillo trade but he's definitely not good enough to get mariners to do both.
I don’t think this is a 1B problem as much as it’s Alonso demanding way more than he should, he’s already 30 which isn’t “old” but if he is expecting a high salary long term deal coming off a mediocre hitting season (didn’t even OPS 800) while providing 0 defensive help, then he’s crazy, he’s a big name but if I’m a MLB GM, I’d rather make the same moves as all the other teams to get similar production at a far cheaper cost
Do you think Mets fans would take Freddie Freeman if he were available? They would leave Pete in the dust. It’s not that they don’t value 1st base. They don’t want to pay a guy like Pete 250-300 million is the problem. Nobody wants to pay him that because he’s not worth it
You would have to be insane to give Alonso a 9 year deal given he will eventually become a DH. Yes teams can spend whatever but it isn't logical to spend that much for players that will take a downturn. Last year was pitching, this year is first basemen.
HOT TAKE ABSOLUTELY NO STATISTICAL VALUE TO BACK UP MY STATEMENT But I feel that we're seeing these two big changes (that being batting order and devalue of 1B) come about as the result of the Universal DH rule. Previously, especially as an NL team, you were incentivized to build an all-around team, as pitching substitutions and pinch hitting were inevitable. You needed good OBP guys up front to provide better pinch-hit situations. Secondly, universal DH incentivizes teams to build a lineup of the best 9 hitters they can, rather than the better overall team, and as a result, we can let the fielding suffer a little and exchange that for better bats. What fielding position is the least valuable?
The Yankees don't need Goldy to be a forty home run guy. They need a CLUTCH bat who helps them win games with timely hits and decent defense. And nobody needs big and slow Alonso for anything. Alonso is one injury away from being a big and slow DH and the Yanks already have Stanton for that.
I'm a dodgers fan but if I'm the giants I pay Alonso, they signed Adames, old man Verlander, they made some good moves, Adames is gonna get you 30+ homers outside him you don't really have another guy who'll put up 30+, maybe Chapman but why not get Alonso? Also that might help lure Roki to them... I mean I hope not, for the Dodgers but makes sense to me
Hot take, not a single top 5 first baseman were on the free agent market, and teams aren’t paying top 5 money for someone who isn’t top 5 at the position
Yea, not having Alonso, or Walker in your 5th is a bit wild to me. Vladdy, Harper, Freeman and Olson must be your top 4, so who is the 5th? lol
Anybody else
@@Chaser3d18Walker 😂
@@tommykahnleburner Yes Walker, one of the other Top 10 1st Baseman free agents this year. I can see you're a Dodgers fan so please try to keep up champ lol.
@Chaser3d18 it's even funnier since Walker went off at Dodgers stadium last year. Roberts intentionally walked him so he didn't have to deal with him. If Walker isn't in your top 5 you're probably a bit biased and he's definitely number 6 no questions asked...
freddie freeman got 170 ish million, alonso is not better than freeman. simple as that
factually correct
6/162 with that money being worth a little less because of deferments to be exact
Sir you are correct.
ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
I agree. But I’m not sure there would be teams willing to pay a 1B THAT MUCH, NOW!!!! Even if they happen to be as great a hitter as Freeman.
Did my boy Votto dirty with them lowlights at first 😂
@@LatinFever07 I love Votto . I’ve always loved Votto and I’m a Mets Fan..
Votto was King
No one values a good first baseman until they get a bad one who can't scoop up that in between hop that at the end of the year you come to realize how many runs and innings he could have saved your pitching staff and how many wins he could have added to the season standings. Plus, a good hitting first baseman is always appreciated.
Actually, major league teams are 100 percent aware of this. They hire people with graduate degrees in statistics and pay them to track all this and a lot more minutia and work out equations to figure exactly this sort of thing. But maybe they would be better off relying on the general impressions of TH-cam comment sections.
I think its the other way around. You take a good bat and convert him to 1B knowing that its a “learnable position” at the ML level. Joe Mauer, Scott Hatteberg (famously) miggy, vladdy jr.
if you provide +20 runs with your bat in a seaons and cost your team 10 from your poor defense youre still a net positive to the team
Defensive 1st basemen dont save alot of runs, thats the point. It doesn't mean you want a BAD defensive 1st basemen but its a spot you can hide a good bat
You say this then watch Vladdy get the biggest 1B contract ever.
Haha although I could end up seeing him be a DH most of his contract
As a jays fan, I’m afraid for when the Vlad contract comes. With the tax here along with management, it’s going to screw the jays over
@iTalkStudios Vlad is one of those players who thrives more when on the field. He can't DH back to back games because he gets rusty.
@@ZaKRo-bx7lp even though he is far from the best first baseman ever
Pete Alonso is better than Vladdy.
is not about money; it is about the amount of years. Mets can give Pete Alonso 2 years 40 mill, but he wouldn't take it. He's not even better than Freeman. Nobody wants to stay with an aging 1B at high AAV. The Mets threw the bag at him, but he betted on himself and undervalued the organization, and still they offered 90 mil 3 years with options to opt out, and he still declined. Its called "GREED.". There's a time decay;; the more he waits, the less he's going to get. Every team is set.
In this situation, he definitely undervalued the team. Cohen made a fair offer and you can see by the current offer that the message is sent that you shouldn’t be turning down a more than fair offer. On top of that, it seems like no matter how Alonso performed he was looking for 200 million or more.
A's. M's. .... Mets
I think the problem is people want to pay these superstars ridiculously long overvalued contracts. People look at Soto and go he produced 7.9 war he got 12y 52m AVV….i produce 5 war so I should be worth 8 and 30m+ AVV…..when actually Soto ain’t worth that much and is warping theI expectations of the good not great players.
Edit: All you people saying Soto is worth it. 1 WAR is worth 4.5m. Soto produced 7.9 war so he’s worth around 35.55 AVV. Maybe he has a few great seasons and gets you over 10 WAR and comes close to value but odds are he will produce a huge negative net return
Pete has a career war of 19.8; last year was 2.6; is a lot older than SOTO; and has been on a decline for the last 2 years. He can't even hit the breaking ball. SOTO has a career WAR of 36.4 and historical OBP. There's no comparison, which is why every team, including Boston, the Yankees, Dodgers, Mets, and Toronto, was willing to go to the 700. He's a generational talent.
Soto got what he got due to his age and career numbers. The fact that he's 26 and his numbers are really only compatible to Ted Williams. He's a once in a lifetime hitter. All that other stuff you said is BS did he change the market of course the MLBPA has a system set up designed to do so. Bats and arms have always been more valued than being a great defender. The recent hall of fame ballads should prove that to you.
Another thing is these contracts are in part because these teams take advantage of all these players in rookie deals and arbitration. It's criminal how long MLB players have to wait to hit the market. Soto being 26 and on the market is rare that's why he got the money any other opinion on the matter is honestly bull shit no matter how valid people may think it may be
Soto is not worth nearly as much as Shohei, he is 35m AAV at best. A good player should cost 15m. It's the handful of the big market teams that drives up this insane player price inflation
@@MrUnik88 ballads lmfao
Alonso’s issue is Scott Boras and would be signed if he didn’t have him as an agent
Ask Blake Snell if he’s a good agent. And snell is a pitcher the most valuable position in baseball
Agreed - Boras has an outdated approach to contracts on the age of analytics. His old-school bullying tactics just turn organizations off.
Teams are just making sure the 1B they sign will cover the bag in case their pitcher doesn’t
Nice game 5 reference lol
@ thanks! Glad I didn’t drop the ball on the reference 🫡
@KayD14 you're definitely better than Aaron Judge to be doing such thing lol
I remember a Mets fan on Twitter asking during the middle of the season that the Mets were fools to not give Pete Alonso an extension for $250M/10.
I laughed because Matt Olson, a 2x gold glover who hit 54 HRs 139 RBI (both leading all of baseball) along with an NL leading .604 slugging % and a 164 OPS+ had signed with the Braves for $168M/8.
Even with as big of a down year as Olson had last season he still had a 3.8 WAR vs Alonso’s 2.6 WAR. 1B is such a negligible position defensively that instead of putting your worst defender in LF (since there’s a lot of full time DHs now that would be like a deer in headlights playing defense anywhere on the dies) teams now put them at 1B.
Well Alonso is such a terrible defender at the easiest defensive position in baseball, a position he’s played for all of his collegiate and MLB career, that the Mets, or any other team who inks Alonso, will have to make him a full time DH.
If Matt Olson for $168M/8 ($21M annually) while being easily 1 of the top 5 1B in all of baseball and having flashed signs that he’s the best at that position in the game, how much does Alonso seriously expect?
Being that Alonso is a Boras agent, I expect him to sign a deal similar to what Cody Bellinger signed ($75M/3 with opt outs after every season) except maybe a little bit less. There’s no way Alonso is getting a long term deal unless he settles for like $125M-$140M over 8 years.
Will be very interesting to see how things pan out for him and if he stays in New York. I don’t think there’s any way the Mets have interest in him for more than 3 years. Remember, Soto will be moving to DH (or possibly even 1B) much sooner than people think.
All true and you didn't even mention the best 1B in all of baseball IMO, Freddie Freeman who also signed a pretty reasonable deal for a player of that caliber.
oh believe me as a lifelong Braves fan I realize the value of Freddie Freeman. Freeman did have a pretty drastic drop off last season though. He still was arguably the best 1B in baseball last year though because he was so good the year before he just dropped from an MVP level to an All Star level.
It’ll be interesting to see how his contract ends up playing out. Paul Goldschmidt went from winning NL MVP 2 years ago at exactly the same age Freeman was this past season to being basically an average hitter in 2024. Freeman is much more of a contact guy than Goldschmidt was and as legendary as Goldy is (6-7 years ago if you would’ve told someone that Freddie Freeman would end up having a better career than Paul Goldschmidt they would’ve asked you how much you wanted to bet on it) he was actually showing serious decline in bad speed even around 2020.
Will be VERY interesting to see how this all ends up playing out. Freeman ended up taking just a little bit more than what the Braves were offering him but when you consider how much of his contract (most of his contract) was in deferred money and then adding in absurd California state income taxes to Georgia’s much more modest number Freeman actually ended up getting way less from the Dodgers.
When you take into account that Freeman started crying when he returned to Atlanta and literally fired his agent days after finally talking to Braves GM Alex Anthopolous again during that one and only series the Dodgers played in Atlanta that year (and every year. You play teams outside your division but in your league only one series at home and one series away) you really have to wonder how much Freeman still regrets the mistake. Winning is nice. I’m sure he’s feeling pretty good about winning WS MVP and another championship in LA.
I’m very interested though to see how those final 3 years play out compared to how Olson’s final 5 years as a Brave play out. Freeman for $162M/6 while Olson got $168M/8. They finished 3rd and 4th, respectively, in MVP voting in 2023 although they had contrasting seasons. Olson led baseball in HRs & RBIs along with the NL in slugging % while Freddie dominated hitting for a much higher average but half almost half as many homers and fewer walks. But then Olson had a really bad 2024 while Freeman had a dip but, again, was still top notch. Really want to see how that goes
As a Mets fan, Alonso is better than most people think defensively; but he is declining definitely. He is such a big fan of New York and being a Met, that it is hard for a lot of us fans to see him go because he wants to be here. Even though he’s not the best first baseman in baseball; he is better than most and we haven’t had a 1B who is good in so long…. It’s complicated, but we love Pete.
Alonso actually isn’t a bad defender lol idk where you heard that at
@@eaglewinnings8003idk maybe that drop off came because he was hurt and had his kid going through a medical emergency for a few weeks so he wasnt all there mentally
A good first basemen makes the entire infield better!
That's true of ANY infield position and 1B while yes, has an impact it's the least impactful of the infield positions.
That's true of every infielder
@@wingracer1614 I play on casual baseball and softball teams, 1b on some teams, SS on others. Played 1b since I'm 10, and in high school. 1B is vitally important because no one makes perfect throws all the time. Ive had arguments with teammates over this, because they say "Anyone can play 1B" ---and then I put them on 1B and they can't handle throws in the dirt, don't stretch on close plays, and don't know how to make tags if the throw pulls them off the bag. When I'm at 1st, it's game-changing and me diving off the bag has won us some games
@@michaeljjt1976 thanks bro, I play first base in college. I save so many bad throws and record more outs for our guys.
@@michaeljjt1976 Yes, all of that is true but it's even more disastrous to have a player like that at short or 2b. And while I would strongly disagree with the statement that anyone can play 1st, the fact is that most people that can play baseball at the MLB level can. Not everyone, but most.
First Base should always have an elite defender I think people lost perspective on the importance of the position
The thing that is weird is that jow both leagues have the DH (ugh, but I digress) so treating First Base as though it's the place to put a weak fielder is sort of redundant. My generation remembers Don Mattingly and Keith Hernandez, first basement who settle tone for the overall infield defense, later John Olerud and Tino Martinez did the same.
I think it's just there were plenty of low cost good value options on short term deals available at 1b this year, and when Vladdy and that Japanese 1b are both available next year and they're both hitting free agency at a young age, i think most teams just wanted a low cost option for this year to have a run at one of those two next year, and if they miss out on them then they'll maybe trade for Casas or sign Pete assuming he eventually gets some kind of short term high aav deal with opt outs to try again
One of your colleagues did a video a few years ago about how Goldschmidts 2022 MVP as a first baseman is a more rare sight.
But when you dig deeper into the said prince fielder contract, he only played four more years and then broke down. Many good players with good defensive players don’t see those metrics decline nearly at the rate that Goldschmidt or fielders did in their last few seasons. A players offensive skill set can fluctuate in the majors but their defensive metrics are pretty fixed entering the majors.
Don’t forget Ryan Howard in the pantheon of horrible contracts for 1B that seemed good at the time or Albert Pujols who was expected to at least keep his solid bat in the lineup for an AL team as a DH.
Baseball has a lapse in logic that no other sport seems to have. People are saying Pete doesn’t even deserve 3 year 30m deal. But would happily pay an Acuna type 60 mill. Pete is an active big hitter that brings a lot to a team. World Series winners almost always have a good first base. But it’s not appreciated.
Thank you for making this video! I caught and moved to 1st base because I loved the position. I’ve been saying this for what feels like a decade about my RedSox. Organizationally, they just cared so little about the position, they literally thought that you could pick a fan out of the stands and it wouldn’t make a bit of difference defensively. The Sox big deadline move in 2021 was bringing in Kyle Schwarber with the intention of throwing him at 1st , after he’d played a single inning at the position, in LITTLE LEAGUE, in the middle of a PENNANT RACE 🤦🏻♂️
I get it. 1st baseman don’t need to be a Platinum Glove winner. But if you’re talking about a RedSox team who’s struggled with infield defense, and your new Pitching philosophy is to get ground balls, you need a competent 1st baseman.
*And don’t get me started on converting Devers to 1st 🙄
There’s my rant 🤷🏻♂️
I miss some of the really good first basemen that could really pick it, it's actually a much more important position than some people believe. Guys like Keith Hernandez that can pick it going to his right and can make the first to third throws. Who holds runners on well. Defense in general has become very systematic and no ability to work on all the different possible situations. It's like people forgot how important situational preparedness is. It's all about performing the big stuff. I miss the old baseball that had all these trick plays, suicide bunts, hit and run and telling understanding how to utilize players defensively and have them prepared for the throw like Volpe had to make going to his right and throwing to third and it was obvious he was very incomeftsblr with it
Another piece of evidence for your thesis on teams not valuing first basemen is who Nathanael Lowe was replaced with: a Jake Burger on league minimum salary who is not anywhere close to as good a fielder as Lowe was. Trading a not too expensive Gold Glover and Silver Slugger for Jake Burger shows that, even aside from money, a lot of modern teams just don't care much about the 1B position itself.
Yes!! Thank you for adding that
Prince Fielder has entered the chat
They may not value first base anymore, but if a player can hit, teams will always find a spot for him.
Bleed blue and orange Mets fan here💙🧡:I think you did a great job here with your assessment of how 1B is now perceived by the so called experts. Everything evolves or devolves depending on how one sees it. Because the only thing that is permanent is change👍🏾.
If a guy had a .240 batting average and had 88 RBI in 162 games played in his contract year, how much would you want to pay that guy over the next 5 or 6 years?
Mets specifically are paying Francisco Lindor 34mil AAV to be a better hitter than Pete Alonso while being one of the best defenders at the most premium infield position but Pete wants that kind of money?!?! Make it make sense
Pete Alonso had the best pick rate in 2024 and at least half of those picks were throws by Lindor from literally second base. If the Mets don’t have someone playing there that can pick it, then they’d better move Lindor to second, because he simply can’t make the throw
Red Sox fan here just clarifying, the Sox have reportedly said they don't want to trade Casas unless a really good trade is offered but given their recent moves, they likely will if they can't get Masa out and move Devers to DH, they'd rather have him there but worst comes to worst he goes to first
I know what they've publicly said is not really the story. They're very open to moving him that's what every reporter is saying haha. The Red Sox are just being very careful when discussing it publicly
Great take. It's been going on for awhile. Even 10 years ago, Alonso would have been seen as premium choice and would have signed with the Yankees already. But, if a Utility guy like Ha-Seong Kim is available as well and sign him for 60 million and can also get him, who has the edge. With injuries always on the back of coaches' minds, having guys who are flexible helps a ton.
I’m not sure that prototypical and norm are the right words for teams throwing their clean up hitters at the leadoff slot. Very few teams do that, and even less have a ton of success doing it.
Forgot to mention that earlier in the season, Mets offered Pete 7 years, 152M and Pete said no! Mets are willing to pay Pete but he has to stop taking his advice from Boras and remember that Boras works for him.
He's not even worth that. Fafo
@ Fr! This year was his third straight year of not reaching his projected benchmarks. He’s never seeing 7/152 ever again and this offer just goes to show how generous the Mets were to him already. The Mets are Pete’s only serious team right now and they hold all the power!
Part of the problem is those players don’t play an elite 1st base. And like you mentioned, they also don’t have the versatility to play anywhere else.
reminds me of what happened to RBs in the NFL a few years ago. The 1B market will bounce back in a couple years
We traded 3 pitchers 1 back end starter and 2 mid-tier prospects to Cleveland for Spencer Horwitz who they had for a few hours if that. But he’s position flexible and controllable for 6 more years. And we are cheap as shit so there’s that too
In Houston we were ready to rotate both our catchers (Díaz, caratini), our backup first baseman (singleton) and our utility guy (Dubón) all last season.
We’ve pivoted to Christian Walker this year after giving up on bregman, so, hoping this works out. Last 3 year deal for a veteran 1B didn’t play out so well.
You can put an iron glove at first, but sooner or later it will become exposed and hurt the team. Boston was forced to put Schwarber there on 2021 ALCS and it hurt them. Arraiz being exposed too. Astros got spoiled with Yuli Gurriel at first for years and they suffered defensively last two seasons with Singleton and Abreu, so they were wise to invest in Walker.
Arraez is not a regular first baseman. He is out there to have his bat in the line up when the team he is on goes after second baseman in trades or free agency.
Every position is devalued. Defense doesn’t matter anymore. Everytime. See a free agent signing I hear “his defense is terrible “. The Yankees literally lost the World Series because they had the worst defensive showing of all time and teams are still not carrying about defense.
I just think it depends on the team tbh
Anyone can play first. Back in the day, before the DH, 1B was where aging sluggers played. Mantle, Mays Aaron, Stargell, et al, all spent time at the end of their careers playing there. It's just not that hard to play .... tell him, Wash.
It's incredibly hard.
@@aznpikachu215well anything worth doing is
Personally, I think that Pete is underrated as a defender. Stats can be unforgiving when perception is involved.
6/165 is more than fair but he won’t take it. Freeman got 6/162 and Olson 8/168 3 years ago
$27.5 mil a year for 6 years for Alonso? Are you crazy? He has 3 seasons as good as this past season in him and then his bat will fall off. For 6 years at most he is worth $90 mil. He could, maybe, get $25 mil a year for 3 years, but a realistic 3 year contract is going to be $20 mil a year, and a team favorable one would be $15 mil a year for 3 years. Dude may be good, but he is too limited to be worth a big contract. I'm using $8 mil a war as the basis of my opinions, with $6 mil as team favorable and $10 mil as player favorable.
@ I agree with you. It would still be an overpay in my opinion because he isn’t as good as Olson or Freeman but we know how Cohen is so he will end up giving him more than that
Alonso is a declining 30 year old who gets on base at barely above league average rate and is not a good defender. Only thing he has going for him is his power stroke and even that is on a decline. 6/165 is very generous.
Boras' methods always get one or two of his clients screwed, just a question of which one. Still tho...lots of time before Spring.
@@elasmojones as we saw with Jordan Montgomery last year
Luke Voit out there for grabs. Opted out of a minors contract with the Mets and had a mashing Mexican League season.
Pujols, Howard, Texiera, Fielder, Davis.
How did those deals end up?
Yep
Great video man thanks for the content. I Love it. Have a good one
Thank you for watching!! Preciate you
It's not devalued, the 1st basemen right now just aren't as dominant as previous years compared to other position players. Freeman and Harper, maybe Olson, Alonso doesn't quite reach their level imo. Think back a few years, Freeman, Votto, Cabrera, Fielder, Adrian Gonzalez, Thome, Frank Thomas. These guys struck fear into players. Personally I don't see that at the position. There's more big names elsewhere that scare me more. Right now Freeman and Harper are the elites, Olson and Alonso are on the cusp of elite but not quite there. 1st will bounce back at some point.
Could also be one of the best if not the best first basemen is a free agent next year..
Is there a stat for 1st basemen that counts how many successful scoops are made to convert the out? Like, if a ball is a certain amount of distance from the bag or if the throw hits the ground before getting to the 1st baseman? I feel like that would be a a decent lens to view the performance of 1st base defense.
There isn't atm but they're working on it. Alonso's range and traditional defense is trash but his scoop ability is actually great.
juan soto doesn't play horrible defense. he's just not a good defender, maybe even slightly below average. but horrible implies he's a butcher out there...he's not.
no he's an awful defender. he absolutely is a butcher.
Not really. He’s been nominated for multiple gold gloves and has a top 5 arm out there
he has a pretty good arm
@@Baseballlv3rr-c8w yes really. he's a terrible defensive outfielder. nominated for gold gloves means absolutely nothing. a good arm doesn't make up for being slow in the outfield and taking terrible routes to the ball.
and I full recognize he's a historically great hitter for his age.
He really isn’t
Sorry I don't normally disagree with you, but to say that it's normal now to have a slugger or the best hitter on the team hit leadoff is just very not true. Ohtani and Schwarber are like the only two players where that's the case. Judge literally doesn't hit leadoff
Calling Paul Goldschmidt an aging history teacher is hilarious🤣🤣
hot take, alonso is a right handed max muncy with less defensive value…
Accurate imo.
First base is like a wildcard. Some teams have a franchise player at first base while others simply use it as a spot to try to hide a thumper who can't really cover a lot of ground in the outfield and isn't very good at 3rd base. It is also a spot that teams will try to move a good hitting catcher to as he ages out from squatting for 9 innings every night. There is no mystery really in how first baseman are created.
There just aren't as many ridiculous stat 1b atm, I don't think it has anything to do with the position. Soto is an awful defender who will be a DH in 5 years yet got the biggest contract of all time based solely on his bat. If Juan Soto was a 1b would he not have gotten his contract? It's a low defense/speed, typically 3 outcome batter, 30+ HR position. The superstars in this league tend to simply be more often outfielders or SS's. For SS especially, when you have guys like Bobby Witt putting up numbers traditionally only seen at positions like 1b, AND have impeccable defense and speed at the most important position in the game, they're just more valuable. Primary 1b also are typically the least versatile defensively which goes to your point that typically anyone semi-competent can make the switch to 1b. It's why outfielders who got injured like Harper are now 1basemen
Trust and believe though that if a 1B comes along with numbers like judge or soto, he'll be getting paid. Vladdy is probably the only one in the near future who qualifies at this position. For the money he wants alonso just isn't worth it. He isn't better than Olson or Freddie Freeman especially.
He bet on himself and this time unfortunately it didn’t payoff. In hindsight, he should have taken the 7 year $158m contract extension. But it was worth a shot waiting till free agency.
I think you're right. Not to mention a good deal of 1B are left-handed, meaning they can only play either 1B or the outfield. And if they're not very fleet of foot, they can only play 1B or DH. Maybe the whole Pujols contract disaster is making people wise to the risks of signing a 1B long-term as well. I think the Sox want to move Devers to either 1B or DH. Thus, they want to trade Yoshida and Casas. Anyone who takes Yoshida's contract has to be insane because he's not worth it. It's hard to be more defensively flexible when you have some slow guy who can only play one position. If the 1B can play 3B as well, there's your versatility. But then they have to be RH.
Nobody values defense a DH just got the MVP..!
Love the content I talk❤❤
You have to remember the Mets offered Alosno a 7 year extension deal worth 158 million last year and he turned it down. I personally believe he should've taken that at the time.
Look at the pirates being trendsetters they stopped caring about first base years ago lol
How could the Yankees "not like" Pete Alonso? He plays consistent D, has had a league leading bat for years, and his clutch hits led the Mets to the NLCS.
Probably because they want either Vladdy Jr or Murakami who gets posted next winter
Teams are interested in Vlad Jr. That’s also what’s hurting Pete. They’re not trying to pay so much, long term.
I think its a side effect of the modern game. Used to be you wanted a star 1B just to get major offensive production from that position. Now everybody strikes out all the time. I'm not paying a premium for a player that hits .200 and can't defend.
You forgot about Rizzo - he's still on the market after the Yanks let him loose (after a 2 year short contract!)
They really messed up rizzo playing him with head injury. He was really good prior. Old now, so not sure he bounces back. Wish him well though
Ya just cant let go of Cleveland getting Santana bro they have a 1B prospect too (Manzardo) lol at least know things before talking about them. The team needs pitching not 1B they have a ton
1B used to be the equivalent of the DH spot in the NL. Now it's just become devalued with the universal DH
I think it's more a case of these two players, instead of the position being treated differently. Players who could no longer play outfield, or 3rd base were always being switched to 1st base. IIRC, Hank Aaron played some 1st base for the Brewers at the end of his career. The greatest 3rd baseman, Mike Schmidt, ended his career as the Phillies 1st baseman. You mention the Dodgers and their flexibility at 1st, but when they signed Freeman, they've used him pretty much every day at first. Of course, they have other players who can play 1st, but then, most players (as you say) can play 1st.
Just wanted to say that Kyle Schwarber batting leadoff for the Phillies started this trend of heavy hitters up first
This guy is super positive. Haven't heard one video where he gives props to anyone. But then again, I agree with him 😆
I'm positive but don't give props to anyone? What lol
Dude good video but do you hate Joey Votto? Lmao. there was like 30 seconds straight of Votto lowlights
No haha I love him my bad
I rather have a gold glove one tool player than a five tool gold glove at first.
Vladdy will get his money as a first baseman, he's the only one.
Exactly. Plus I think he'll be a DH most of that contract
the joey votto highlight real 😂
I think the reason Pete Alonso isn’t signed yet is that his asking price for a contract is to much, plus I’ve seen rumors that he isn’t the best clubhouse guy, so that could be another factor for teams
I do think there could still be outliers for 1B. If prime Mark Teixera hit the FA market he would probably have a very aggressive market because of his skill set. The combo of switch-hitting power along with a Gold Glove is a rare commodity.
Most of the current crop of available 1B are pretty one-dimensional.
I think everyone has an idea in the back of their mind that they can just reserve first for on of their aging stars who eventually won’t be able to handle everyday catcher/3b/ outfield anymore so they don’t want to shell out money to someone who’ll only play first
Ever since I was a 15 year old playing fantasy baseball with DHL internet, I always wondered why the best hitters batted 4th instead of lead off or 2nd.
Throughout the course of a full 162 game season the difference between how many plate appearances a lead off man will get vs the cleanup hitter is not negligible. It’s enough to the point where it can be the difference between a win and a lose in at least a full game.
Teams figured this out about 8-10 years ago.
I’m 39 now so when this first started happening (I believe around 2016 or so) it felt really validating because I came to the conclusion as a teenage kid in 10th grade and it took MLB GMs a decade and a half longer to figure this out.
i remember thinking the same thing about pitchers win loss records in the mid 90s as a teenager. It is truly amazing we had people paid a lot of money to hand out big contracts based on things that didn't matter.
I could at least understand not wanting to hit your best hitter first in the NL before the DH.
I also remember when mostly scrappy white guys who couldn't hit much but bunted well would hit 2nd.
There was a world series game where Craig Counsel sac bunted 3 times in one game with a man on first and no outs which is atrocious.
1st base is just a spot on the diamond. It's generally the least important position defensively so any power bat can fill the 1st base role unless they are elite at the position.
Pete Alonso has just been a poor mans Kyle Schwarber the past two years. Pete is just a prototypical power bat whose had his worst two seasons back to back going into free agency. He's just not worth the money when there are plenty of power bats that can get the job done.
Only the catcher followed by the pitchers touch a baseball more than a first basemen... so the whole premises that nobody values the first baseman position is asinine at best!
Alonso is asking to be paid in the same neighborhood as Francisco Lindor, but he's a bad baserunner and is a below average major league 1B, rather than a top tier baserunner and elite fielding SS. I'm not sure why the Red Sox are shopping Casas, though, since it seems like his hitting floor is something like Mark Grace, which will play when you're strong enough to hit a curve you're fooled by off the Monster one-handed. Just hope he becomes a stalwart 150 game a year guy.
Some of you may have your own difference of opinion BUT
when MLB decided to make the DH universal
It destroyed the 1B position & the players who dominate it.
Historically, some of the BEST DH’s were 1B and some of the BIGGEST BATS were 1B.
1B was always seen as a power hitters position.
Jim Thome
Jason Giambi
Frank Thomas
David Ortiz
Lyle Overbay
Troy Glaus (end of his career)
Paul Konerko
Albert Pujols
Mark Texiera
Paul Goldschmidt
Ryan Zimmerman
Brandon Belt
Carlos Delgado
Lance Berkman
There are many more
The position has declined in the last 3-5 years and the NL getting the DH has de-incentivized teams to fill that position with such a skilled player.
1B is now looked at as a position for utility guys, former 3B, former corner outfielders, and has become more similar to the way second basemen looked in the early-mid 2000’s
(Marco Scutaro, Kaz Matsui, Brian Roberts, Jayson Nix, Freddy Sanchez)
Players with low power & higher fielding and contact value.
The position has TOTALLY CHANGED
Christian Walker is an interesting one because his past 2 years are similar to Pete Alonso… 20 mil AAV through 36 is the same as offering Pete 6/120 through age 36
Watching these videos always reminds why the Dodgers are so good. 😊🎉
It’s not that teams don’t value 1B, Pete Alonso just doesn’t fit the requirements of the bag he is looking for. This is coming from a Met fan. No one wants a guy that bats fucking .220-.250 on a good day, hitting 30-50 bombs in garbage time while striking out the rest of the time. Teams want people that put the ball in play. Teams are ready to risk their entire farm for a guy like Vlad, who puts the ball in play while also displaying monster numbers. The value has just not been there.
You're right, the computers don't value them so EVERYONE just blindly believes they have no value which is completely untrue.
First baseman is just a second DH
So when big team have sign some stars extra long contract they will reserve those spots when they playing in late 30s, which diminish the value of existing first baseman.
Take dodgers as example, Freeman and Shohei occupy the two DH spots already so they need extra versatility for other player to rotate and create flexibility in line up.
And the ninth spot are the new leadoff spot nowadays as contacts hitter are good for helping teams get on base but not so valuable by his own WAR
What is killing 1B is the DH. This is a 50 year trend at this point. 1B was always a position where hitting was primary and defense was negotiable. With DH, a team can now see 1B in a balanced way and seek good defensive play and not really need elite hitting at that position. A situation that was not possible without the DH.
We saw this in the AL starting in the early 80s. Now that both leagues are using the Dummy Hitter, they can spend on a dedicated DH and look for a younger 1B who has both offensive and defensive value.
Good luck for all you 1B players who are not utility minded.
0:25 Kyle Schwarber lead off 😂
Hurting players? The worst of the worst are still making millions. Alonso has been offered 30 million a year for three years!!! We should probably save the word "hurting" for school teachers or people making minimum wage.
“scaarce” is crazy 😭😭😭😭😭
Now that the DH has arrived in the NL, maybe there's not as much desire to pay a premium for a DH-from-Wish at 1B.
the casas to mariners proposal isn't the same as some of the other 1st base issues. they're trying to dump salary AND get back a top of the line starter in castillo so it makes sense that mariners declined. casas might be a good enough prospect to get mariners to consider taking a salary dump or a castillo trade but he's definitely not good enough to get mariners to do both.
I don’t think this is a 1B problem as much as it’s Alonso demanding way more than he should, he’s already 30 which isn’t “old” but if he is expecting a high salary long term deal coming off a mediocre hitting season (didn’t even OPS 800) while providing 0 defensive help, then he’s crazy, he’s a big name but if I’m a MLB GM, I’d rather make the same moves as all the other teams to get similar production at a far cheaper cost
Cleveland refuses to spend money and Santana has history in Cleveland. It makes sense.
Do you think Mets fans would take Freddie Freeman if he were available? They would leave Pete in the dust. It’s not that they don’t value 1st base. They don’t want to pay a guy like Pete 250-300 million is the problem. Nobody wants to pay him that because he’s not worth it
Best joke about stage 4 terminal cancer I've heard tbf
You would have to be insane to give Alonso a 9 year deal given he will eventually become a DH. Yes teams can spend whatever but it isn't logical to spend that much for players that will take a downturn. Last year was pitching, this year is first basemen.
1 min gang 🗣️
Damn just got me lol
HOT TAKE
ABSOLUTELY NO STATISTICAL VALUE TO BACK UP MY STATEMENT
But I feel that we're seeing these two big changes (that being batting order and devalue of 1B) come about as the result of the Universal DH rule.
Previously, especially as an NL team, you were incentivized to build an all-around team, as pitching substitutions and pinch hitting were inevitable. You needed good OBP guys up front to provide better pinch-hit situations.
Secondly, universal DH incentivizes teams to build a lineup of the best 9 hitters they can, rather than the better overall team, and as a result, we can let the fielding suffer a little and exchange that for better bats. What fielding position is the least valuable?
7:41 wow that took a dark turn.
If Acuna had waited like 3 years, he could've gotten $500+ million, but definitely not from the Braves.
The Yankees don't need Goldy to be a forty home run guy. They need a CLUTCH bat who helps them win games with timely hits and decent defense. And nobody needs big and slow Alonso for anything. Alonso is one injury away from being a big and slow DH and the Yanks already have Stanton for that.
I'm a dodgers fan but if I'm the giants I pay Alonso, they signed Adames, old man Verlander, they made some good moves, Adames is gonna get you 30+ homers outside him you don't really have another guy who'll put up 30+, maybe Chapman but why not get Alonso? Also that might help lure Roki to them... I mean I hope not, for the Dodgers but makes sense to me
Baseball is nuts. TH-camrs can say a guy is screwed when he just turned down $90 million over three years.