On Mike Frazier’s, Bob Rock”s and Bruce Fairbairn”s from 80s and 90s the bass cuts through WITH overdriven guitars even on cell speakers....that is a feat in itself
I dont really think that record sounds big because of a bass trick in mixing. They played larger then life. Its easy to mix a great song. Not that easy to fix a track. Polish a turd!
@@psk1461 I really agree with you, they played larger than life! But I gotta admit Wallace’s mixing really helped bring out the life in the recording, Butch Vig’s mixes lacked something that Wallace’s don’t (though Butch is still awesome)
Apparently the other aspect of the bass sound on Nevermind was the Yamaha SPX-90. I don't which tracks or which patch Andy used, but I guess he would run the bass through the SPX and print it to a new track, then blend that in with the original bass.
Cranking the lowest fundamental of the bass and then cutting some low mids around 250-350 is a pretty common trick to get a big low-end without it going muddy. The exact frequencies to boost and cut vary by song but that’s the principal, if your boosting low bass/sub frequencies create a cut in the low mids for separation and definition. If you have electronic sub-bass frequencies and electric bass doubling it gets trickier. Sometimes I’ll cut all the lows from the electric bass, and let the electronic sub fundamental carry the section
@@kensmechanicalaffair that’s an extremely common technique in hard rock and metal. It’s essentially a crossover distortion: clean sub bass on one channel, all the mids and highs contained in another, saturated. You can get bad phase cancellations if the crossover isn’t right, so it tends to leave a large hole in the low mids. In rock and metal that space is occupied by downtuned distorted guitars so it works a treat there.
@@mrnelsonius5631 I see, i kind of default to it because if the upper mids are too much, i just slide the fader down to taste, instead of using the eq to death. But now i see one of it's applications, thanks.
@@mrnelsonius5631 Funny because I mostly learned production from metal and then crossed over to electronic/rap and have been using that technique for the 808s/sub bass to make it play nicely with the low end of synths like brass or whatever and have never put together that that was why I used that technique so much in my productions. Very insightful comment!
Nevermind remains one of the best mixed rock records of all time IMO so when Andy Wallace drops a kernel of knowledge it's probably worth paying attention
@@lordberly I did a test using three different EQ's. I tried using 1) the FabFilter Pro-Q 3 with a 18 dB low shelf boost at around 50 Hz, 2) the Sie-Q from Soundtoys with the low end knob cranked all the way up, and 3) the Waves Scheps 73 with the settings in this video: 35 Hz, cranked all the way. My take aways are that 1) the Pro-Q 3 was very gentle and didn't really boost the low end much. It sounded okay but didn't have the musical effect I wanted. 2) The Sie-Q did a proper job of boosting the low end but also added a lot of boominess around 200 Hz. The low end felt lifted but also muddy. 3) The Scheps 73 did an amazing job and sounds great. It's pure magic when you crank the 35 dB. I would get this plugin for the low end boost alone. It adds so much low end (at the max setting), but somehow it doesn't sound bad. It doesn't add that much boominess - it's just musical and thick in the most pleasant way. I bought the plugin straight away after this little test of mine.
@@Automagi If you look at the VU meters on the Neve you'll notice that they're in the red the whole time. I think a large part of the magic that is happening here is that you're getting that Neve style saturation on the low end and then tailoring it with the SSL filters and compression.
This is a true gem. I recently enjoyed a similar book, and it was a true hidden gem. "The Art of Meaningful Relationships in the 21st Century" by Leo Flint
Hey, i noticed you don’t have the SPLIT or the CH OUT buttons activated which means signal path is Dynamics->Filters->EQ. Was this intentional? I usually have both buttons pressed so that the signal path is Filters->EQ->Dynamics.
This reminded me of a pultec style eq trick which you boost somewhere around 30hz and attenuate at 30hz at the same time in order to get some really interesting heavy guitar sound
An important part of this technique is that a real Neve 1073 will produce very musical saturation harmonics with that boost on the low frequencies, and later when you apply a high pass filter and re-EQ the lowest frequencies, you get rid of the extremely low ones while retaining the produced harmonics, which is what will ultimately retain the feeling of a big bass sound even when it's no longer intrusive. Now, using plugins for this, may or may not work the same, all depending on how well the 1073 algorithm is implemented on the emulation you use.
Yep so digital recreation of that would probably be using something like R-Bass or British Class A which has drive knob separate to the eq. Btw Scheps 73 isn't clean eq when you crank that preamp or even input gain into that plugin you will get some harmonics as well
That is awesome - sometimes I'll try something similar, but maybe with a Waves "MaxxBass" upfront, and then filtering/eq-ing in the bass buss. Great tip here!
How tf do you figure that? He's really good and accomplished but "undeniable the best"?! Thats just not true at all. One of the best... sure but I don't see him mixing the hits of today
@@cellulosefdr lmfao 🤣 you're living under a rock. I hate pop music but regardless the industry presses on. Tons of certified hits. "Blinding Lights" MASSIVE HIT, anything Billie Eilish touches MASSIVE HIT, Post Malone out the park every at bat, Bruno Mars (don't like that he's stuck in the 70s) but HIT after HIT.
@@tiffanysmith1465 FAKE NEWS No one who uses their brain likes that MK Ultra Psyop, that's what I mean, there aren't REAL musicians anymore they have ALL been replaced with artificial corporate stooges and sheeple have been dumbed down so they can't tell the difference
I did a test using three different EQ's. I tried using 1) the FabFilter Pro-Q 3 with a 18 dB low shelf boost at around 50 Hz, 2) the Sie-Q from Soundtoys with the low end knob cranked all the way up, and 3) the Waves Scheps 73 with the settings in this video: 35 Hz, cranked all the way. My take aways are that 1) the Pro-Q 3 was very gentle and didn't really boost the low end much. It sounded okay but didn't have the musical effect I wanted. 2) The Sie-Q did a proper job of boosting the low end but also added a lot of boominess around 200 Hz. The low end felt lifted but also muddy. 3) The Scheps 73 did an amazing job and sounds great. It's pure magic when you crank the 35 dB. I would get this plugin for the low end boost alone. It adds so much low end (at the max setting), but somehow it doesn't sound bad. It doesn't add that much boominess - it's just musical and thick in the most pleasant way. I bought the plugin straight away after this little test of mine. Thanks for showing me the world of musical EQ's, @Green Light Sound!
I'm sure the Pultec could achieve similar results. II would go with 60Hz since the boost is so broad and 30 might be too low. You might need a bit more EQ after to carve out some of the low mid mud.
Great work, but I'm curious as to why we can't just use the high pass filter on the neve? Why filter on the ssl if the neve already has a high pass filter?
This is kind of mimicking how the pultec eq works with the low end trick. I think i watch Jaquire King did this similar concept with the pultec styled eq. Cool stuff!
Cheers Joe, one of the things I've been doing recently is splitting the bass and processing it separately, one that focuses on the bass neck sounds and one that focuses on the body. It's a Michael Brauer concept
I would like to know how Michael Brauer does the A B C D buses inside the DAW, he calls it Brauerizing, you are good at simplifying ideas, and I love everything you post on your channel.
Put the kick EQ emphasis a little higher, more like the 60-80 Hz range while cutting a little at 40. I often sidechain compress the bass so it cuts a little of the low end out just when the kick hits.. Andy Wallace is also a fan of the 1-3 kHz beater sound for kick definition and smack.
@@GreenLightSound Do you need a dynamic EQ, like a fabfilter ProQ in order to sidechain specifically the low end? I haven't figured out how to do that with a regular EQ + compressor. The waves C4 doesn't have a sidechain, which is disappointing.
Thx for the video. Little hint: Could you do a before/after comparison without Interruption, that means without stoping & talking. That would make it more helpful 👍
Really interesting. The theory of it makes sense, and obviously the sound is cool. Not sure if it's applicable to every mix, but definitely a good tool for those mixes where a big low end is paramount.
feel like if the song needs huge low end from the bass then you should have recorded it that way. and ok if u dont have time/money to go back and record then do this.
@@stockmanager I don't know that a lot of people want to track with a 30 Hz boost. I mean, could you? Sure. But it's just as fast to pull up an EQ instance and have this as a preset on the back end. It doesn't really save you any time to track it that way. Plus, it may be something I don't know I need unitl I get to the mix stage. I might need just a little of it vs. a lot of it and so on.
@@GreenLightSound That said, I do think it might be a worthwhile thing to have on a mix template so that you can access it when needed. Might be something where you just want to have a resonance when the tonic is reached at the beginning/end of a chorus, just to underline it.
@@phillipemery572 was thinking more try and find a bass or/and amp that has a large low end naturally. Get it from the source. If you didnt know u needed the bass doing what the trick in the video does to the bass until the mix stage then you didnt understand enough to record the song in the first place.
Thank you for this very helpful tip! I’m just getting into the world of mixing and wondering how this technique would work in conjunction with the kick drum in a song? If rock music typically has a kick drum mixed in a lower frequency range than bass wouldn’t boosting the bass at 40hz start interfering with the kick ? Thanks for any help!
It could, but you often have to choose which one (kick or bass) you want to win in a mix. I often have a multiband compressor on the bass sidechained to the kick drum so the low end of the bass drops a couple dB on each kick hit. Helps them work together.
It only interferes if it interferes. Sounds redundant, but what that means is that you can actually do both, and use your ears to determine if it works or not. If not, try something else. But if your mix just works with both the kick and bass occupying a good amount of low end, then it works
I learned a less refined idea of this for Bass or kick- on an aux channel, low pass cut everything above 60hz. crank everything below 60hz., compress it almost to death, a little distortion is fine, blend a bit of this with your clean track. this works with any gear
It came from someone who worked with him on an album in the 90's and took note of some of the techniques he used. He doesn't use much outboard gear, so nearly everything else he did besides effects was on the SSL board.
I don’t have the Waves SSL G, I have the Brainworx version, and the switches are labeled differently. I’m assuming that he has it set up here with the COMPRESSION coming BEFORE the SSL EQ. Do I have this right? ~Thanks
How do you know Wallace uses this technique? I can't find reference to it anywhere. It's great and works well so thanks for sharing but I'm just curious to know how you know that this is what Andy does. cheers
only really useable if A) the bass parts are fully in phase, and B) the kick in the track is short and not deep (and not actually serving as the lowest thing in the mix i.e not a dance type song C) the tempo of the track is at the lower end , prob sub 120-ish.
@@GreenLightSound of course Andy Wallace's will be. but a large amount of people searching "quick tips" on youtube will be beginners, Its worth mentioning the prerequisites as those applying this as a fix all solution are going to be disappointed. Also many rock bands use 4 on the floor beats, the principle stands as this is just too much low energy for kick led tracks.
@@Bthelick oh shut up dude! Just b cause some are beginners doesn't mean they are complete dumbasses If they can't use this video they should forget about being an engineer as bass is 90% of it Furthermore if you don't know how to put things in phase then please get out and leave this for the real engineers
Depends on how the bass was recorded. If I had multiple tracks of the same source, I would buss them and put the plugins there. If I only had one bass track I would put it directly on the channel.
I am confused. None of those plugs actually sound like the hardware. Yes the GUI and usage is similair and the reponse curves but the actual analog sound no. Is that right or am I mistaken?.
Sounds to me like you’re not actually confused….you’re convinced. Convinced by somebody else’s opinion of plug in companies. You could definitely achieve this with “stock” plug ins….but instead of 2 you’d be using 4 or possibly 5. I don’t understand why people get their panties all in a bunch over people liking certain plug ins over the stock ones that come with the daw. One thing you cannot achieve with “stock” plug ins anymore is the ability to make each one sound like you used a different channel, fortunately we all have Brainworx for that and the TMT technology that made that happen. It’s fine if you wanna tell people that there is some scam going on with plug in companies….but at least be sincere about it and come right out and say it. I like the console emulations much better than grabbing a compressor, then an EQ, then a gate, then a filter, then a gain knob, then a stereo widener, then a distortion plug….i get all those in one plug in and it’s all right in front of me. To me that’s as close to a console as it gets on a screen. And yes, I will even bus it over and add a Distressor or an 1176, or an LA2A and a Tape emulator….why do I love doing it so much more than using “stock” plug ins? Because not only are they much easier to use than the made up versions you get with your DAW….they look cooler. It’s capitalism at its finest! You don’t have to buy plug ins….but I don’t have to stop.
do you really need the separate EQ if you can use the EQ from the SSL channel strip, and by pressing SPLIT and CH OUT, you can put the EQ before the comp?
I kinda hate the sound of SSL G series. I am amazed at all these guys who make them sound so good. No idea how that is done. Andy Wallace's work is mind blowing. Evil Empire is some sort of black magic.
@@thank_you_thank_you I mean... I get why people had them back in the tape and 8 inch floppy disk era... fully recallable desk with dynamics on every channel. Industry standard for a reason - mix recall. But they sound... brittle. Clicky. Grindy. And a bit thin. Like a cheap copy of an 1176 compressor, or a transistor overdrive pedal. Trashy transistor.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 thats why they have loads of racks full of outboard gear. if you just used the ssl g on its own it would sound pretty different to what you hear once its got pultecs and curvebenders and fairchilds etc etc etc patched into it.
@@gavmurray7398 Euphonix and Otari made much better fully automated consoles. The SSL signal path has so many miles of wire in it, if you start cascading things, you can measure the latency using a CD burner. SSL G is a very compromised and scary machine. The op amp topology enabled the use of cheap components that sounded pretty horrible without some very clever tricks. Met the guy who designed the thing and he explained it to me. I could follow about 3% of what he was saying. He moved on to Audient. Contemporary semiconductors are just a different story, so there is room for smashing analogue consoles that are computer controlled. Neve 88R etc. The new SSL stuff is running a modded version of windows, runs dante, and sounds proper.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 the G series is one of my favorites to use!! I definitely switch between the orange knobs and black knobs when I use the plug in alliance version to get a perfected sound but the G is probably my second favorite after the 9000 J . It may depend on the genre you do. But I can see where you’re coming from for sure
Simple and cheapest way that works for me is rolling off at 3 or 4 k . Then raise the general volume and your 40 hz comes up in ratio . I agree that the sweet spot for bass tone is 300 to 500 and compression is the finishing touch . Most important , you must here the bass clearly on tiny mixing speakers ( within the mix ) . Monitor the clarity of your bass and drums as you start adding the rest of the instruments in the mix . Mid range instruments like guitar should be rolled off around 120 as not to muddy up the lower end . Compartmentalize the range of every instrument to avoid mud and cancellation of sound . If you are fortunate to receive a budget to do your work ... leave your home studio and let the big boys with their million dollar studios do the session . I’ve worked with Tom Lord Algie - you can’t compete with these guys and their complex bussing and equipment .
You can use the technique and still use parallel distortion. If it's too much bass on the parallel channel, just EQ out some low end before the distortion.
I think this is working because despite cranking the low end, you lose low end from the compressor. Dumping a little of the low mids is a common move to reduce mud.
@@GreenLightSound Thanks, got you. So you feed one in to stereo in (L) and one in to stereo in (R) (I guess). That LMF is actually a slight cut then right ? (I don't have waves SSL but have native SSL channel strip plugin). 12 o'clock is 0dB and you are slightly under that anticlockwise..
@@GreenLightSound trying to get my head around that - so you could have used the mono 73 with a DI and amp send ? - I use reaper so easiest is to have a folder with the 73 and ssl - two mono child tracks , one with amp, one with DI. Both are blended in the folder track and the 73 and ssl applied to the blend.
I haven't tried it, but I bet it would work. You would just have to be careful you don't overdo it, maybe cutting a little more of the lows with the SSL.
@@mikewallace1270 I heard it 2nd hand, but not from Mix with the Masters. Seems like a cool site, but I'm not a member. This tip comes from someone who worked with him in the 90's.
I've seen all of Andy's Mix With the Masters videos and never seen him use anything but the SSL channel EQs and comps on any instrument or vocal. The only outboard gear he uses are effects and sometimes an Alan Smart C2 buss compressor. It's possible that it's something he used to do before he honed his current post-90s style. It's a good technique though. Neve EQs are good at adding extra enrichment to the frequencies you boost with them.
Use VMR. First use FG-N for the Neve 40Hz crank. Then use FG-401 for the compression, which is not the exact same as an SSL but is at least a VCA compressor. Then use FG-S for the SSL EQ. It's a model of an E-series, but is close enough to the G-series to get close.
Watching this on a phone was hilarious hahah
Ha - the non-existent 40Hz boost.
Me too going mmmm canny tell.. Oo wait on me phone🤣
On Mike Frazier’s, Bob Rock”s and Bruce Fairbairn”s from 80s and 90s the bass cuts through WITH overdriven guitars even on cell speakers....that is a feat in itself
“These are the same picture”
if you cant hear phase rotation at octaves of 40 Hz i dont know what to tell you. know what to listen for and you dont need speakers
Nice! Cranking the 40 Hz EQ to the max and then cutting around 200 Hz. I will try that.
YESSS, this is one of the reasons why Nevermind sounds so huge. Please if you could make more Andy Wallace related that’d be awesome!
I'm planning on it!
I dont really think that record sounds big because of a bass trick in mixing. They played larger then life. Its easy to mix a great song. Not that easy to fix a track. Polish a turd!
@@psk1461 I really agree with you, they played larger than life! But I gotta admit Wallace’s mixing really helped bring out the life in the recording, Butch Vig’s mixes lacked something that Wallace’s don’t (though Butch is still awesome)
Apparently the other aspect of the bass sound on Nevermind was the Yamaha SPX-90. I don't which tracks or which patch Andy used, but I guess he would run the bass through the SPX and print it to a new track, then blend that in with the original bass.
@@EverythingMusicRecording I read that too. You can achieve the same result with soundtoys micropitch on setting III if I remember correctly.
Cranking the lowest fundamental of the bass and then cutting some low mids around 250-350 is a pretty common trick to get a big low-end without it going muddy. The exact frequencies to boost and cut vary by song but that’s the principal, if your boosting low bass/sub frequencies create a cut in the low mids for separation and definition. If you have electronic sub-bass frequencies and electric bass doubling it gets trickier. Sometimes I’ll cut all the lows from the electric bass, and let the electronic sub fundamental carry the section
What about splitting the bass between two channels?
@@kensmechanicalaffair that’s an extremely common technique in hard rock and metal. It’s essentially a crossover distortion: clean sub bass on one channel, all the mids and highs contained in another, saturated. You can get bad phase cancellations if the crossover isn’t right, so it tends to leave a large hole in the low mids. In rock and metal that space is occupied by downtuned distorted guitars so it works a treat there.
@@mrnelsonius5631 I see, i kind of default to it because if the upper mids are too much, i just slide the fader down to taste, instead of using the eq to death. But now i see one of it's applications, thanks.
@@mrnelsonius5631 Funny because I mostly learned production from metal and then crossed over to electronic/rap and have been using that technique for the 808s/sub bass to make it play nicely with the low end of synths like brass or whatever and have never put together that that was why I used that technique so much in my productions. Very insightful comment!
@@mrnelsonius5631you mean multiband distortion. Crossover distortion happens in amplifiers when the signal goes from positive to negative.
WOOH...that sounded gorgeous when you cranked that 1073 plugin!
Nevermind remains one of the best mixed rock records of all time IMO so when Andy Wallace drops a kernel of knowledge it's probably worth paying attention
Tried this with Slate VMR and works really well. Thanks!
You're welcome!
btw, for those that don't know and want to know: the boost in the bass is a very broad band with 18dB of gain.
Thanks for clarifying. So what would I do to mimic the 1073 using FabFilter Pro-Q 3? Would boosting a shelf node at 40 Hz with 18 dB work?
@@Automagi i wonder the same thing too
@@lordberly I did a test using three different EQ's. I tried using 1) the FabFilter Pro-Q 3 with a 18 dB low shelf boost at around 50 Hz, 2) the Sie-Q from Soundtoys with the low end knob cranked all the way up, and 3) the Waves Scheps 73 with the settings in this video: 35 Hz, cranked all the way.
My take aways are that 1) the Pro-Q 3 was very gentle and didn't really boost the low end much. It sounded okay but didn't have the musical effect I wanted. 2) The Sie-Q did a proper job of boosting the low end but also added a lot of boominess around 200 Hz. The low end felt lifted but also muddy. 3) The Scheps 73 did an amazing job and sounds great. It's pure magic when you crank the 35 dB. I would get this plugin for the low end boost alone. It adds so much low end (at the max setting), but somehow it doesn't sound bad. It doesn't add that much boominess - it's just musical and thick in the most pleasant way.
I bought the plugin straight away after this little test of mine.
@@Automagi So glad someone tested this out
@@Automagi If you look at the VU meters on the Neve you'll notice that they're in the red the whole time. I think a large part of the magic that is happening here is that you're getting that Neve style saturation on the low end and then tailoring it with the SSL filters and compression.
This is a true gem. I recently enjoyed a similar book, and it was a true hidden gem. "The Art of Meaningful Relationships in the 21st Century" by Leo Flint
Hey, i noticed you don’t have the SPLIT or the CH OUT buttons activated which means signal path is Dynamics->Filters->EQ. Was this intentional? I usually have both buttons pressed so that the signal path is Filters->EQ->Dynamics.
Andy Wallace is the sigma of the mixing engineers. Working quietly, wisely, and precisely with success.
I wanna try this but may add a tape saturation plugin first and different compressor after the Neve emulation.
This reminded me of a pultec style eq trick which you boost somewhere around 30hz and attenuate at 30hz at the same time in order to get some really interesting heavy guitar sound
Thanks a lot ! Many people underestimate how it’s fundamental to treat right the bass and how it’s easy to mess up with it.
You're welcome!
Will you ever do a David Bottrill video?
An important part of this technique is that a real Neve 1073 will produce very musical saturation harmonics with that boost on the low frequencies, and later when you apply a high pass filter and re-EQ the lowest frequencies, you get rid of the extremely low ones while retaining the produced harmonics, which is what will ultimately retain the feeling of a big bass sound even when it's no longer intrusive. Now, using plugins for this, may or may not work the same, all depending on how well the 1073 algorithm is implemented on the emulation you use.
Yep so digital recreation of that would probably be using something like R-Bass or British Class A which has drive knob separate to the eq.
Btw Scheps 73 isn't clean eq when you crank that preamp or even input gain into that plugin you will get some harmonics as well
reminds me of indie rock bass guitar stuff back in the 90s.
That is awesome - sometimes I'll try something similar, but maybe with a Waves "MaxxBass" upfront, and then filtering/eq-ing in the bass buss. Great tip here!
This is really good. Just used this on a fairly simple ballad that I thought already sounded good and wow! Everything just tightened right up. Thanks!
You're welcome! Happy to help.
If u look at the albums that andy has mixed it's pretty undeniable he's the best mixer in the business
How tf do you figure that? He's really good and accomplished but "undeniable the best"?! Thats just not true at all. One of the best... sure but I don't see him mixing the hits of today
@@tiffanysmith1465 that's why there are no more hits today
@@cellulosefdr lmfao 🤣 you're living under a rock. I hate pop music but regardless the industry presses on. Tons of certified hits. "Blinding Lights" MASSIVE HIT, anything Billie Eilish touches MASSIVE HIT, Post Malone out the park every at bat, Bruno Mars (don't like that he's stuck in the 70s) but HIT after HIT.
@@tiffanysmith1465 FAKE NEWS No one who uses their brain likes that MK Ultra Psyop, that's what I mean, there aren't REAL musicians anymore they have ALL been replaced with artificial corporate stooges and sheeple have been dumbed down so they can't tell the difference
Let's just turn all those "the best" statements into "one of the very best xxxxx(s)".
And the world will be a better place.
Reminds me of the Pultec EQ Boost and Tame at the same time. Can I assume it has similar effect?
Precisely
I did a test using three different EQ's. I tried using 1) the FabFilter Pro-Q 3 with a 18 dB low shelf boost at around 50 Hz, 2) the Sie-Q from Soundtoys with the low end knob cranked all the way up, and 3) the Waves Scheps 73 with the settings in this video: 35 Hz, cranked all the way.
My take aways are that 1) the Pro-Q 3 was very gentle and didn't really boost the low end much. It sounded okay but didn't have the musical effect I wanted. 2) The Sie-Q did a proper job of boosting the low end but also added a lot of boominess around 200 Hz. The low end felt lifted but also muddy. 3) The Scheps 73 did an amazing job and sounds great. It's pure magic when you crank the 35 dB. I would get this plugin for the low end boost alone. It adds so much low end (at the max setting), but somehow it doesn't sound bad. It doesn't add that much boominess - it's just musical and thick in the most pleasant way.
I bought the plugin straight away after this little test of mine. Thanks for showing me the world of musical EQ's, @Green Light Sound!
Again, nifty! Thanks! I think I could use a Pultec for the 40Hz boost, right? Or must it be a bell? Would 60Hz Pultec be better? I'll try it....
I'm sure the Pultec could achieve similar results. II would go with 60Hz since the boost is so broad and 30 might be too low. You might need a bit more EQ after to carve out some of the low mid mud.
Definitely had that Wallace sound ! I wish there as more with him as well! Thanks for sharing
Thanks for watching!
He has a great Mix with the Masters series, where he mixes a song from front to back
Great work, but I'm curious as to why we can't just use the high pass filter on the neve? Why filter on the ssl if the neve already has a high pass filter?
Probably the slope. Old gear doesn’t have selectable slopes.
Thank you Thank you Thank you!!!!!!! Just tried it and it’s awesome !
You're welcome!
This is kind of mimicking how the pultec eq works with the low end trick. I think i watch Jaquire King did this similar concept with the pultec styled eq. Cool stuff!
Great bass sound!!!!
Just curious, why did you use stereo version of the plugins on the bass buss?
I use some subtle widening (chorus) on the bass, so the buss ends up being in stereo.
Cheers Joe, one of the things I've been doing recently is splitting the bass and processing it separately, one that focuses on the bass neck sounds and one that focuses on the body. It's a Michael Brauer concept
I often do something similar with DI and amp tracks.
wtfff??? that sounds so good wtfff
Thank you for these amazing videos you upload on TH-cam 🙏
I would like to know how Michael Brauer does the A B C D buses inside the DAW, he calls it Brauerizing, you are good at simplifying ideas, and I love everything you post on your channel.
Thanks! I'll eventually get to some Michael Brauer techniques too.
i like this a lot.
always learning from the masters.
also, ignore the haters, this is a great video
I'm curious about how he would approach a kick drum in relation to this bass technique.
Put the kick EQ emphasis a little higher, more like the 60-80 Hz range while cutting a little at 40. I often sidechain compress the bass so it cuts a little of the low end out just when the kick hits.. Andy Wallace is also a fan of the 1-3 kHz beater sound for kick definition and smack.
@@GreenLightSound Do you need a dynamic EQ, like a fabfilter ProQ in order to sidechain specifically the low end? I haven't figured out how to do that with a regular EQ + compressor. The waves C4 doesn't have a sidechain, which is disappointing.
@@nickanton7983 I use FabFilter ProMB to do it.
@@nickanton7983 Use TDR Nova
@@nickanton7983 use tdr nova
I can't imagine Wallace uses these cheezy sounding plugins
Fr. He def uses ssl native and uad
@@MrCool144 so you have been in the studio along with him?
is the only choice for us that we are not rich people
@@MrMusicopath that is not an argument
Thx for the video.
Little hint: Could you do a before/after comparison without Interruption, that means without stoping & talking. That would make it more helpful 👍
Happens a lot in these types of videos. Drives me nuts too!
Listen on your car stereo. You'll find every piece of loose change in your car.
Really interesting. The theory of it makes sense, and obviously the sound is cool. Not sure if it's applicable to every mix, but definitely a good tool for those mixes where a big low end is paramount.
That's a good point - no processing is applicable to every mix. The key is to know what sound you're going for and use the tools to get you there.
feel like if the song needs huge low end from the bass then you should have recorded it that way. and ok if u dont have time/money to go back and record then do this.
@@stockmanager I don't know that a lot of people want to track with a 30 Hz boost. I mean, could you? Sure. But it's just as fast to pull up an EQ instance and have this as a preset on the back end. It doesn't really save you any time to track it that way. Plus, it may be something I don't know I need unitl I get to the mix stage. I might need just a little of it vs. a lot of it and so on.
@@GreenLightSound That said, I do think it might be a worthwhile thing to have on a mix template so that you can access it when needed. Might be something where you just want to have a resonance when the tonic is reached at the beginning/end of a chorus, just to underline it.
@@phillipemery572 was thinking more try and find a bass or/and amp that has a large low end naturally. Get it from the source. If you didnt know u needed the bass doing what the trick in the video does to the bass until the mix stage then you didnt understand enough to record the song in the first place.
Thank you for this very helpful tip! I’m just getting into the world of mixing and wondering how this technique would work in conjunction with the kick drum in a song? If rock music typically has a kick drum mixed in a lower frequency range than bass wouldn’t boosting the bass at 40hz start interfering with the kick ? Thanks for any help!
It could, but you often have to choose which one (kick or bass) you want to win in a mix. I often have a multiband compressor on the bass sidechained to the kick drum so the low end of the bass drops a couple dB on each kick hit. Helps them work together.
It only interferes if it interferes. Sounds redundant, but what that means is that you can actually do both, and use your ears to determine if it works or not. If not, try something else. But if your mix just works with both the kick and bass occupying a good amount of low end, then it works
nice tip. would like to see another video series of you mixing start to finish, the fabfilter one you did was an awesome series.
👏🏻 Thanks for the great video. Cant hear a lot of diff on a phone but yeah!
I learned a less refined idea of this for Bass or kick- on an aux channel, low pass cut everything above 60hz. crank everything below 60hz., compress it almost to death, a little distortion is fine, blend a bit of this with your clean track. this works with any gear
Nice, gonna try this
Hi great tip, reminiscent of the Pultec boost and cut. Note do you have the original reference where this tip from Andy Wallace originally came?
It came from someone who worked with him on an album in the 90's and took note of some of the techniques he used. He doesn't use much outboard gear, so nearly everything else he did besides effects was on the SSL board.
Great video thanks,,, i see you have Oxford inflator in your plugins, how did you get it to show,,, all my oxford plugins dont appear in studio one .
I just installed and they showed up for me. Maybe try uninstalling them and reinstall.
@@GreenLightSound im using the old version of oxford. Maybe thats why.. Vst2
that's amazing & super simple, thanks!
Such a spectacular piece of knowledge. I love this technique! (Now if I only can get it to work for me.)
Thank you for the class!
I don’t have the Waves SSL G, I have the Brainworx version, and the switches are labeled differently.
I’m assuming that he has it set up here with the COMPRESSION coming BEFORE the SSL EQ.
Do I have this right?
~Thanks
That sounds beautiful
How do you know Wallace uses this technique? I can't find reference to it anywhere. It's great and works well so thanks for sharing but I'm just curious to know how you know that this is what Andy does. cheers
I think I got it from an old print interview.
Great video thanks
only really useable if A) the bass parts are fully in phase, and B) the kick in the track is short and not deep (and not actually serving as the lowest thing in the mix i.e not a dance type song C) the tempo of the track is at the lower end , prob sub 120-ish.
I time-align the DI and amp tracks so the parts are in phase. Since this is Andy Wallace, it's probably a safe bet that it's not a dance track.
@@GreenLightSound of course Andy Wallace's will be. but a large amount of people searching "quick tips" on youtube will be beginners, Its worth mentioning the prerequisites as those applying this as a fix all solution are going to be disappointed. Also many rock bands use 4 on the floor beats, the principle stands as this is just too much low energy for kick led tracks.
@@Bthelick oh shut up dude! Just b cause some are beginners doesn't mean they are complete dumbasses
If they can't use this video they should forget about being an engineer as bass is 90% of it
Furthermore if you don't know how to put things in phase then please get out and leave this for the real engineers
Thank you!!!
Really enjoying your tipps! Thanx!
wait but he’s doing a low shelf at 40, then filtering up to 40? isn’t that just gonna create essentially a small boost at 40?
Man I love this channel! Gonna try that right away! thanks!
Thanks for watching!
Cool concept. I’m gonna try this on my next one.
Great trick for bass sound EQ. Thanks for sharing. Cheers
Nice!
Great video. Would you put these 2 plug ins on the bass bus or the Bass channel? Or does it not matter? Thanks
Depends on how the bass was recorded. If I had multiple tracks of the same source, I would buss them and put the plugins there. If I only had one bass track I would put it directly on the channel.
@GreenLightSound thanks for the Informative reply. Much appreciated 🙏
I might just not be getting something but how is it a trick to boost the low end and then compress it?
I knew this was going to be live instrument processing the minute I sauce waves plug-ins
Yes this is awesome😍
How is this different than just using the SSL? Is the EQ curve of a Neve something the SSL can't replicate?
The curve may be different, plus the Neve has a "weight" to it that the SSL doesn't. I'm sure you could still get similar results with an SSL.
I am confused. None of those plugs actually sound like the hardware. Yes the GUI and usage is similair and the reponse curves but the actual analog sound no. Is that right or am I mistaken?.
This could be acheived with stock plug ins if im mistaken.
Sounds to me like you’re not actually confused….you’re convinced. Convinced by somebody else’s opinion of plug in companies. You could definitely achieve this with “stock” plug ins….but instead of 2 you’d be using 4 or possibly 5. I don’t understand why people get their panties all in a bunch over people liking certain plug ins over the stock ones that come with the daw. One thing you cannot achieve with “stock” plug ins anymore is the ability to make each one sound like you used a different channel, fortunately we all have Brainworx for that and the TMT technology that made that happen. It’s fine if you wanna tell people that there is some scam going on with plug in companies….but at least be sincere about it and come right out and say it. I like the console emulations much better than grabbing a compressor, then an EQ, then a gate, then a filter, then a gain knob, then a stereo widener, then a distortion plug….i get all those in one plug in and it’s all right in front of me. To me that’s as close to a console as it gets on a screen. And yes, I will even bus it over and add a Distressor or an 1176, or an LA2A and a Tape emulator….why do I love doing it so much more than using “stock” plug ins? Because not only are they much easier to use than the made up versions you get with your DAW….they look cooler. It’s capitalism at its finest! You don’t have to buy plug ins….but I don’t have to stop.
@@vektacular There is a sucker born every minute. Enjoy.
@@thegroove2000 thanks!! I for sure will!!
@@vektacular Brainworx for that and the TMT technology God luck with that.
do you really need the separate EQ if you can use the EQ from the SSL channel strip, and by pressing SPLIT and CH OUT, you can put the EQ before the comp?
Yes since the SSL and Neve EQs are very different.
@@GreenLightSound how so? could you expand? like what does it really do differently? additional harmonics?
Different harmonics, shape, and overall feel. The Neve EQs are known for character and weight, and the SSL is cleaner.
Outstanding
Looks awesome, thx!
I kinda hate the sound of SSL G series. I am amazed at all these guys who make them sound so good. No idea how that is done. Andy Wallace's work is mind blowing. Evil Empire is some sort of black magic.
@@thank_you_thank_you I mean... I get why people had them back in the tape and 8 inch floppy disk era... fully recallable desk with dynamics on every channel. Industry standard for a reason - mix recall. But they sound... brittle. Clicky. Grindy. And a bit thin. Like a cheap copy of an 1176 compressor, or a transistor overdrive pedal. Trashy transistor.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 thats why they have loads of racks full of outboard gear. if you just used the ssl g on its own it would sound pretty different to what you hear once its got pultecs and curvebenders and fairchilds etc etc etc patched into it.
@@gavmurray7398 Euphonix and Otari made much better fully automated consoles.
The SSL signal path has so many miles of wire in it, if you start cascading things, you can measure the latency using a CD burner. SSL G is a very compromised and scary machine. The op amp topology enabled the use of cheap components that sounded pretty horrible without some very clever tricks. Met the guy who designed the thing and he explained it to me. I could follow about 3% of what he was saying. He moved on to Audient. Contemporary semiconductors are just a different story, so there is room for smashing analogue consoles that are computer controlled. Neve 88R etc.
The new SSL stuff is running a modded version of windows, runs dante, and sounds proper.
@@weareallbeingwatched4602 the G series is one of my favorites to use!! I definitely switch between the orange knobs and black knobs when I use the plug in alliance version to get a perfected sound but the G is probably my second favorite after the 9000 J . It may depend on the genre you do. But I can see where you’re coming from for sure
Great one!!!
More of such tips
More to come!
@@GreenLightSound ❤️
Simple and cheapest way that works for me is rolling off at 3 or 4 k . Then raise the general volume and your 40 hz comes up in ratio . I agree that the sweet spot for bass tone is 300 to 500 and compression is the finishing touch . Most important , you must here the bass clearly on tiny mixing speakers ( within the mix ) . Monitor the clarity of your bass and drums as you start adding the rest of the instruments in the mix . Mid range instruments like guitar should be rolled off around 120 as not to muddy up the lower end . Compartmentalize the range of every instrument to avoid mud and cancellation of sound . If you are fortunate to receive a budget to do your work ... leave your home studio and let the big boys with their million dollar studios do the session . I’ve worked with Tom Lord Algie - you can’t compete with these guys and their complex bussing and equipment .
Yeah you can!
Incredible man, thnx for share!
How do I get those plugins for Logic?
Don't forget the Chorus he uses on just about all his bass tracks 👍
I didn't! - th-cam.com/video/slShF8I_JT0/w-d-xo.html
@@GreenLightSound ah thanks. I didn't see this one. Great video BTW 👌
Thank you!
Then you need to invert the polarity of the sub bass fx, no?
Great vid! 🙌🏻 Thank you!
You're welcome!
Great tutorials
thanks, so specific! & convincing example.
Wouldn’t he put compression after eq?
Doesn’t Wallace usually add Chorus to bass also?
He does: th-cam.com/video/slShF8I_JT0/w-d-xo.html
Cool. Wasn’t sure if I was getting the greats confused.
Great great tip ! Thx ! Got a new suscriber !
Thanks!
What is the original level of the Bass? Adding +18dB to a hot level would distort it no?
I gain stage to -18dBFS before mixing.
How should I do this if I use parallel distortion for my bass sound?
You can use the technique and still use parallel distortion. If it's too much bass on the parallel channel, just EQ out some low end before the distortion.
Muchas gracias amigo
I think this is working because despite cranking the low end, you lose low end from the compressor. Dumping a little of the low mids is a common move to reduce mud.
Thanks for the tip!
No problem!
Incredible
Why is the 73 in stereo mode for a DI bass ?
It's on a stereo buss fed by both the DI and amp tracks.
@@GreenLightSound Thanks, got you. So you feed one in to stereo in (L) and one in to stereo in (R) (I guess). That LMF is actually a slight cut then right ? (I don't have waves SSL but have native SSL channel strip plugin). 12 o'clock is 0dB and you are slightly under that anticlockwise..
@@slangking1 They're actually both panned center, so the effect is the same as having a mono buss. The LMF is a slight cut in the 200-300 Hz range.
@@GreenLightSound trying to get my head around that - so you could have used the mono 73 with a DI and amp send ? - I use reaper so easiest is to have a folder with the 73 and ssl - two mono child tracks , one with amp, one with DI. Both are blended in the folder track and the 73 and ssl applied to the blend.
Awesome! Does this also work with 808s ?
I haven't tried it, but I bet it would work. You would just have to be careful you don't overdo it, maybe cutting a little more of the lows with the SSL.
@@GreenLightSound Thx, I will give it a go
What settings are you using with the compressor in this example?
Check the video at 1:55. The settings are on the top right in the SSL dynamics section.
@@GreenLightSound Thanks, I thought they might be. My eyesight is not what it used to be though lol.
Gotta get a closer look then :)
Nice tip.. subscribed !
love it awesome
Have you heard this from Andy himself or is this 2nd hand information? Is there a reference you are basing this off of?
Probably from mix with the Masters. Andy has several full-length mixing videos on there. I highly recommend the side.
@@mikewallace1270 I heard it 2nd hand, but not from Mix with the Masters. Seems like a cool site, but I'm not a member. This tip comes from someone who worked with him in the 90's.
Hmm, I see. Thanks for the info guys!
I've seen all of Andy's Mix With the Masters videos and never seen him use anything but the SSL channel EQs and comps on any instrument or vocal. The only outboard gear he uses are effects and sometimes an Alan Smart C2 buss compressor. It's possible that it's something he used to do before he honed his current post-90s style. It's a good technique though. Neve EQs are good at adding extra enrichment to the frequencies you boost with them.
Much appreciated
that's gem!
nice
Amazing 🙏
How can i do this with slate audio plugins?
Use VMR. First use FG-N for the Neve 40Hz crank. Then use FG-401 for the compression, which is not the exact same as an SSL but is at least a VCA compressor. Then use FG-S for the SSL EQ. It's a model of an E-series, but is close enough to the G-series to get close.
@@GreenLightSound thankss!! Very useful