bit of a correction: Balatro got 18+ at first, but appealed it with PEGI to demonstrate the lack of simulated gambling mechanics (that is to say, you can't even learn to play poker from this game) to get that 3+ rating. It was very deliberately given 3+ and then turned back to 18+
@@cyberninjazero5659 it probably is but making a public statement about it is the worst thing you can do before the case is over. So we probably won't know until someone uncovers the court documents that they're filing a lawsuit.
Clubhouse Games from Nintendo got an ESRB rating of E and a Pegi rating of 12+. That game has you legit gamble with fake chips to see who has the most money and you can go into negative bucks, and the game is like, "no, but keep going you can win it back." AND IT GOT A LOWER RATING THAN BALATRO!!
I remember a WiiShop $5 Poker game that got E10, and when you went under it went "Oops, you're broke. You have to sell off all of the unlocked cosmetics you payed for with the in game money to get enough to start from the bottom again."
Best poker tournament i ever saw i was cooking at a pub and it was on the tv at the bar. A guy was at the poker table getting baskets of chicken wings and fries and burgers and nachos and was just eating the entire time so he was impossible to read it was actually fucking genius
playing War with my friends when I was 6 and getting raided by the PEGI cops for using gambling devices to simulate warfare by comparing numbers on a piece of cardboard to see which one is highest
I'd love to see the poker metagame evolve to the point where professional matches are just some bizarre scene that looks like it's all kabuki stagehands playing cards with each other
"How hard can a puck hit a person?" Pat, a teenage girl died from getting hit in the face by a puck at an NHL game. They can hit you pretty fucking hard.
@@Kiyokoghurt i didn't say *I* wouldn't, did i? i said a little dweeb slingshotting a rock at a fictional giant isn't exactly the proof we should be using.
i feel like pat would like balatro cause of the intrinsic joy of number go up, no more satisfying feeling than reaching a score so big you get it shown in scientific notations
I remember hearing an interview with a hockey goon and he sounded like a really nice guy. He said he dreamed about being a hockey player since he was a kid and after several tryouts he was picked because of his size and not his skill. He eventually quit because it destroyed his mental health knowing he'd have to beat up people and it was all under the direction of his coach. His coach would point out to him who he needed to take out and his job was to make sure that the player couldn't participate for the rest of the game.
@@styno9295 during the interview you could hear in his voice he was still torn up about it. He was living his dream but he literally couldn't sleep before a game
If it weren't for real life obligations I'd have sunk most of last week into Balatro. But unlike actual gambling, I only had to pay for it once. If anything, that value comparison should teach kids to play non-loot-boxy games instead. Fuck PEGI.
Uh, exactly this, how are people concerned about gambling if the game is a one off purchase? They must not realise that it isn't costing the player real money or some shit. Like all they've been used to is dealing with lootbox bullshit.
By the ways, regarding playing poker with face accessories, NOT wearing those things can be an advantage as well. If your good enough at controlling your reactions and can metagame the table, a player with exposed face could bait or bluff people with intentional convincing microexpressions during the game.
Yeah, I got an electronic 5-card draw game as a stocking-stuffer-y type gift when i was like 11 or 12 or some shit - didn't help me at the actual game, but it kept me occupied for a bit.
It was a blackjack and duces wild in one for me. The tiger handhelds always disappeared and no one knows where, but the poker ones had a mute button and never went missing.
Hockey fights are so normalised, I remember watching a compilation of hockey fights where a player on one team says “You wanna fight?” and a player on the other team says “Yeah alright, sure.” and they just drop their sticks and square up against each other.
The issue with sign stealing in baseball isn't just a player figuring out what signs they're throwing, a runner on second can and should try to figure out the signs and let the batter know, and it's the pitcher and catcher's job to deal with that. The PROBLEM is when someone outside the game is watching from a perspective no player has and then like... texts the vibrating phones the batter has in his left and right pockets depending on what the pitch is.
I refute that this is a gambling simulator because I attempted to replicate the game's methodology IRL and all I got was a hammer to the right and thrown out the doors, for attempting to Tarot card my hand to double my winnings.
Pat's not wrong but the thing you've got to remember is that PEGI is for around 35 different countries each with their own dumb gambling rules. I know that in the UK specifically, digital assets aren't really recognised on a technicality. Fifa gets away with it because you can't use anything you purchased outside of the game. But then UK politicians are infamous for not knowing how anything electronic works. The current Prime Minister genuinely planned to have the Royal Mint create NFTs, which ironically it wouldn't recognise as currency with current laws.
In Sweden, we can't participate in betting Twitch Channel Points, because even though it's not real money it technically fulfills the criteria of our gambling laws.
This story has all the smell of "Oh this thing is popular now and making money? When are you going to allow me to wet my beak? You're not? Okay that's fine, but fair warning, you might find that things are going to become significantly more difficult for you very soon."
I was not aware that professional hockey coaches employ full-on henchmen to defend their star players. Coach points out the troublemaker and the Hired Goon is like "You goddit, baws" rolling up his jersey sleeves and tossing his gloves aside halfway across the ice. An extra layer of absurdity to what is already the best part of hockey.
that was like the whole reason we beat the Russians at the Olympics. actually, i might be confusing that with a different big game. it was 1980, i wasn't exactly there.
3 minutes in. Woolie's trying to find the paper logic behind the rating change. Like they must have reevaluated it and come to different conclusion. For this to happen post launch and for the change to be so dramatic, something HAPPENED. There's pressure on them from someone somewhere. The people on PEGI who thought 3+ still believe it's 3+. They made this change for some reason that is external to normal ratings board logic.
They'll have to update Mario 64 ds' rating cause that has gambling with Luigi and that could make kids wanna dress like Luigi and bet their wife on a 2 pair
i remember northernlion talking about a post he saw on reddit involving a guy who wanted to try balatro but was scared that it would get him hooked on gambling again. he tried the game and didnt even think about doing real gambling again. so uh... do with that story what you will.
Listening to these two talk about sports is like listening to a kid who just read a Wikipedia article about sports describe the Wikipedia article about sports.
This clip couldn't have come at a better time. I just finished Letterkenny and started Shoresy, that moment one fight shit happens in that show and I was confussed af.
Playing an entirely virtual card game, with no real money involved is quite different from gambling. Well if people who are addicted to gambling played the game and found it has a similar affect on them, maybe PEGI could be on to something but right now seems very silly.
Bureaucracies have no problems breaking their own rules. Dealing with it is nearly impossible because most of the time pointing out how they are wrong within their own rules is meaningless to them, and it's more expensive to fight them than anything you'll get. The law exists only for the rich.
Video games let people experience the appealing psychological effects of gambling without the involvement of real money. Naturally, we must disrupt this as much as possible so people only have the choice of going to real casinos.
I had the same reaction as Pat when I first saw High Stakes Poker. I'm sure Woolie is right that it probably doesn't matter at that level, but it really just felt like cheating.
I mean the thing is, if you're good enough at the bullshitting aspects, you can _fake_ tells. The elaborate face--hiding is insurance on the one hand, but you have to sacrifice your ability to manipulate the table to do it. Pat is able to pinpoint that some people hide their face and some don't, and thinks about why people choose to hide, but doesn't think about why anyone would choose not to. There are pros and cons. If there were only pros, everyone would do it.
@DaBoweh To add to this, most people's tells indicate when they are stressed but are trying to hide it. Well, guess what? It's poker, everyone is stressed playing this game. Really, the tells you need to watch for is in relation to bet sizes and understanding the range of hands your opponents are comfortable playing.
Why does he say it's poker, you're not betting against other players. It's not poker. The game is combination game. The developer doesn't play poker and doesn't like poker.
The hockey players must fight. Because if you don't let them vent, they play more dangerously, and somebody ends up with a broken neck instead of a broken leg.
The reason hockey players fight is because its just gonna naturally happen. Hockey is very physical and everyone is on ice so control is even less possible. Guy will fall and crash into each other and that makes tensions rise. So they best way to relieve it is just to let the guys go to town on each other.
You'd think so, but battle Royale shooting game, zombie horde shooter, procedurally generated open world crafting game, and yearly release sports simulation game all exist. Ignore the genre classifications, it will make all media insufferable.
That reminds me that certain European countries laws on gambling, even if it’s simulated, are so absurdly strict that those countries are the main reason why Pokémon got rid of Game Corners.
bit of a correction: Balatro got 18+ at first, but appealed it with PEGI to demonstrate the lack of simulated gambling mechanics (that is to say, you can't even learn to play poker from this game) to get that 3+ rating. It was very deliberately given 3+ and then turned back to 18+
wow, thats even worse!
How the fuck is this not a lawsuit in the making
@@cyberninjazero5659 it probably is but making a public statement about it is the worst thing you can do before the case is over. So we probably won't know until someone uncovers the court documents that they're filing a lawsuit.
Clubhouse Games from Nintendo got an ESRB rating of E and a Pegi rating of 12+.
That game has you legit gamble with fake chips to see who has the most money and you can go into negative bucks, and the game is like, "no, but keep going you can win it back."
AND IT GOT A LOWER RATING THAN BALATRO!!
I remember a WiiShop $5 Poker game that got E10, and when you went under it went "Oops, you're broke. You have to sell off all of the unlocked cosmetics you payed for with the in game money to get enough to start from the bottom again."
@@dawubber6676 Dayum, that sounds crazy, ngl
Oh no, the CS:GO 3rd party skin shops are trying to actively hunt the child.
@dawubber6676 the thing that confuses me the most is... what cosmetics? It's a poker game
Best poker tournament i ever saw i was cooking at a pub and it was on the tv at the bar. A guy was at the poker table getting baskets of chicken wings and fries and burgers and nachos and was just eating the entire time so he was impossible to read it was actually fucking genius
This is like giving Solitaire an 18+ rating for using poker cards
playing War with my friends when I was 6 and getting raided by the PEGI cops for using gambling devices to simulate warfare by comparing numbers on a piece of cardboard to see which one is highest
Pocket Card Jockey is now rated as "Adults Only" and is now delisted from the eShop for the double whammy of Solitaire and Horse Racing! /s
I was going to say Persona 5 because Joker but that's already M
I'd love to see the poker metagame evolve to the point where professional matches are just some bizarre scene that looks like it's all kabuki stagehands playing cards with each other
"How hard can a puck hit a person?"
Pat, a teenage girl died from getting hit in the face by a puck at an NHL game. They can hit you pretty fucking hard.
a rock and a length of rope are famously more than enough to kill a literal giant, a stick and a puck are effectively the same platform.
@@Vanity0666 you know David and Goliath most likely didn't actually happen, right?
@@miguelnewmexico8641 Yes, because Gigantism is just a myth spread by gym bros and G.M.O. protesters.
@@miguelnewmexico8641 the point stands regardless... you would still die
@@Kiyokoghurt i didn't say *I* wouldn't, did i? i said a little dweeb slingshotting a rock at a fictional giant isn't exactly the proof we should be using.
i feel like pat would like balatro cause of the intrinsic joy of number go up, no more satisfying feeling than reaching a score so big you get it shown in scientific notations
I remember hearing an interview with a hockey goon and he sounded like a really nice guy. He said he dreamed about being a hockey player since he was a kid and after several tryouts he was picked because of his size and not his skill. He eventually quit because it destroyed his mental health knowing he'd have to beat up people and it was all under the direction of his coach. His coach would point out to him who he needed to take out and his job was to make sure that the player couldn't participate for the rest of the game.
Jesus christ.
@@styno9295 during the interview you could hear in his voice he was still torn up about it. He was living his dream but he literally couldn't sleep before a game
Save the kids from fake gambling! Come on kids lets go open loot boxes instead.
Next, we’re going to the bank to learn about credit card min-maxxing.
If it weren't for real life obligations I'd have sunk most of last week into Balatro. But unlike actual gambling, I only had to pay for it once. If anything, that value comparison should teach kids to play non-loot-boxy games instead. Fuck PEGI.
Uh, exactly this, how are people concerned about gambling if the game is a one off purchase? They must not realise that it isn't costing the player real money or some shit. Like all they've been used to is dealing with lootbox bullshit.
By the ways, regarding playing poker with face accessories, NOT wearing those things can be an advantage as well. If your good enough at controlling your reactions and can metagame the table, a player with exposed face could bait or bluff people with intentional convincing microexpressions during the game.
I remember my mom and aunts handing me the little handheld poker game to play as a child.
Yeah, I got an electronic 5-card draw game as a stocking-stuffer-y type gift when i was like 11 or 12 or some shit - didn't help me at the actual game, but it kept me occupied for a bit.
I got Texas Hold 'Em Poker for the gameboy when i was a child. loved it never played poker in a gambling setting
It was a blackjack and duces wild in one for me. The tiger handhelds always disappeared and no one knows where, but the poker ones had a mute button and never went missing.
@@mikekazz5353 crazy how that worked, huh?
Hockey fights are so normalised, I remember watching a compilation of hockey fights where a player on one team says “You wanna fight?” and a player on the other team says “Yeah alright, sure.” and they just drop their sticks and square up against each other.
The issue with sign stealing in baseball isn't just a player figuring out what signs they're throwing, a runner on second can and should try to figure out the signs and let the batter know, and it's the pitcher and catcher's job to deal with that. The PROBLEM is when someone outside the game is watching from a perspective no player has and then like... texts the vibrating phones the batter has in his left and right pockets depending on what the pitch is.
Or just wails on an empty trash can depending on when the players ought to swing
I refute that this is a gambling simulator because I attempted to replicate the game's methodology IRL and all I got was a hammer to the right and thrown out the doors, for attempting to Tarot card my hand to double my winnings.
Pat's not wrong but the thing you've got to remember is that PEGI is for around 35 different countries each with their own dumb gambling rules. I know that in the UK specifically, digital assets aren't really recognised on a technicality. Fifa gets away with it because you can't use anything you purchased outside of the game.
But then UK politicians are infamous for not knowing how anything electronic works. The current Prime Minister genuinely planned to have the Royal Mint create NFTs, which ironically it wouldn't recognise as currency with current laws.
In Sweden, we can't participate in betting Twitch Channel Points, because even though it's not real money it technically fulfills the criteria of our gambling laws.
This story has all the smell of "Oh this thing is popular now and making money? When are you going to allow me to wet my beak? You're not? Okay that's fine, but fair warning, you might find that things are going to become significantly more difficult for you very soon."
I was not aware that professional hockey coaches employ full-on henchmen to defend their star players. Coach points out the troublemaker and the Hired Goon is like "You goddit, baws" rolling up his jersey sleeves and tossing his gloves aside halfway across the ice. An extra layer of absurdity to what is already the best part of hockey.
that was like the whole reason we beat the Russians at the Olympics. actually, i might be confusing that with a different big game. it was 1980, i wasn't exactly there.
I’m just imagining a hockey player fighting off the goons like in the Arkham games
Just one goon’s shoulder pads take up the entire goal post.
12:52
Pat was really close to talking about Melee again
Here in Germany, it's currently standing at Age Rating 12+, with a "violence" tag 😂
I have never understood why someone smart enough to count cards on their own is cheating.
it isn't. but do you really think a pit boss gives a shit?
3 minutes in. Woolie's trying to find the paper logic behind the rating change. Like they must have reevaluated it and come to different conclusion.
For this to happen post launch and for the change to be so dramatic, something HAPPENED. There's pressure on them from someone somewhere. The people on PEGI who thought 3+ still believe it's 3+. They made this change for some reason that is external to normal ratings board logic.
i wonder if they keep the hockey goon inside a goon cave until he's ready to be deployed
Man a Balatro convo AND some hockey on the back end. Feels good.
They'll have to update Mario 64 ds' rating cause that has gambling with Luigi and that could make kids wanna dress like Luigi and bet their wife on a 2 pair
i remember northernlion talking about a post he saw on reddit involving a guy who wanted to try balatro but was scared that it would get him hooked on gambling again. he tried the game and didnt even think about doing real gambling again.
so uh... do with that story what you will.
Pat wants naked poker
Listening to these two talk about sports is like listening to a kid who just read a Wikipedia article about sports describe the Wikipedia article about sports.
Balatro is amazing and I have lost so many hours to it already.
I feel like there has to be a lot more behind this story that neither side can vocalize because of legal reasons
Balatro is so good dude
Woolie this game i actually like crack. I had balatro dreams where I played poker and tried to make builds. I got forty hours in the first week. help
This clip couldn't have come at a better time. I just finished Letterkenny and started Shoresy, that moment one fight shit happens in that show and I was confussed af.
i have 20 hours in the game and ive only beat 2 decks. im awful at the game but i 100% get why people develop gambling addictions
Pat needs to listen to “Hit Somebody” by Warren Zevon. It’s all about goons
Fun fact PEGI is actually the reason Pokemon games haven't had a game corner since Gen 4. They changed their policies in 2008, I believe.
Playing an entirely virtual card game, with no real money involved is quite different from gambling.
Well if people who are addicted to gambling played the game and found it has a similar affect on them, maybe PEGI could be on to something but right now seems very silly.
THE GOON IS COMING.
i keep reading it as balto
Bureaucracies have no problems breaking their own rules. Dealing with it is nearly impossible because most of the time pointing out how they are wrong within their own rules is meaningless to them, and it's more expensive to fight them than anything you'll get. The law exists only for the rich.
I always assumed that hockey fights were staged events intentionally planned ahead to entertain the crowd
The rating just shows that Pegi don't understand how lootboxes work and what they are.
Or Karens were outraged
My one piece brainrot thought they were talking about haki not hockey.
Video games let people experience the appealing psychological effects of gambling without the involvement of real money. Naturally, we must disrupt this as much as possible so people only have the choice of going to real casinos.
no one's abolishing them. they're just fucking up the ratings from the sound of it.
the game still exists, my friend. ratings thing aside, adults can still play whatever video games they want.
In the wise words of Pee-wee Herman, "This.... is crack."
This has got to be a Lawsuit
I had the same reaction as Pat when I first saw High Stakes Poker. I'm sure Woolie is right that it probably doesn't matter at that level, but it really just felt like cheating.
I mean the thing is, if you're good enough at the bullshitting aspects, you can _fake_ tells. The elaborate face--hiding is insurance on the one hand, but you have to sacrifice your ability to manipulate the table to do it. Pat is able to pinpoint that some people hide their face and some don't, and thinks about why people choose to hide, but doesn't think about why anyone would choose not to. There are pros and cons. If there were only pros, everyone would do it.
@DaBoweh To add to this, most people's tells indicate when they are stressed but are trying to hide it. Well, guess what? It's poker, everyone is stressed playing this game. Really, the tells you need to watch for is in relation to bet sizes and understanding the range of hands your opponents are comfortable playing.
They don't want potential future poker players to be any good by the time they get to casino's
Why does he say it's poker, you're not betting against other players. It's not poker. The game is combination game. The developer doesn't play poker and doesn't like poker.
doesn't stop video poker from being called video poker.
Man, they just can’t spell “Balatro” correctly, can they?
Ballatro, lmao
…but FIFA, NBA2K and Telltale Games’ POKER NIGHT 2 are not rated PEGI 18?????????
Who will save the children now????
Steam should un-delist this game and tell PEGI to go have fun alone
Hey did they pay us millions of dollars in an attempt to justify why loot boxes aren’t gambling?
No?
Ok hard 18 rating poker is in a casino.
The hockey players must fight.
Because if you don't let them vent, they play more dangerously, and somebody ends up with a broken neck instead of a broken leg.
Really funny knowing that nintendo has a ton of gambling minigames in their products.
Woolie and Pat should look into the Stones poker stream cheating scandal for a fun topic
The reason hockey players fight is because its just gonna naturally happen. Hockey is very physical and everyone is on ice so control is even less possible. Guy will fall and crash into each other and that makes tensions rise. So they best way to relieve it is just to let the guys go to town on each other.
Like.
First 💪🏼
A “Rogue-like deck building game” already sounds like something that’s insufferable
You'd think so, but battle Royale shooting game, zombie horde shooter, procedurally generated open world crafting game, and yearly release sports simulation game all exist.
Ignore the genre classifications, it will make all media insufferable.
That reminds me that certain European countries laws on gambling, even if it’s simulated, are so absurdly strict that those countries are the main reason why Pokémon got rid of Game Corners.