Thanks for posting. Excellent point on "chair flying". I'm former Air Force and current major airline senior captain. We did lots of "chair flying". If you can't do it on the ground, there's no point in trying it in the air. Meaning, that procedures, radio calls, running checklist, knowing the airplane and it's systems, that all needs to be mastered before the first flight in an airplane. You can do it in a chair with a cockpit poster on the wall, in a cockpit mock-up (cockpit procedures trainer) or a sim. But trying to learn it in a plane is a waste of money. You get in a plane to validate what you learned on the ground. You even learn landings in a sim (Redbird sims aren't what we have in the airlines, but they'll do just fine). Instrument Rating is a good example. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It's all about Instrument scan (hand eye video game coordination), rules, procedures, cockpit organization, reading charts, setting up avionics, talking to ATC, staying ahead of the plane/sim and situational awareness. It should all be first done in a sim (any type). Until you can do everything perfectly in a sim, there's no reason to step in a plane. Spend 10 hrs worth of sim time (after passing the instrument written) out of your own pocket before your first instrument lesson in a plane. An airplane is a very poor classroom. Learning in busy airspace has advantages if you want to be an airline pilot. If you get 1500 hrs as a CFI in class G or easy class D with no busy class B or C nearby, you're gonna have a tough time as a regional jet FO. It'll be an eye opener going into Chicago, JFK, LAX etc. And you'll be going into those busy airports multiple times per day. I taught a buddy of mine to fly a few years back (in his experimental Piper Cub variant) in Southern Calif. Every lesson we went to a different airport. If you can navigate through So Cal airspace, you can easily handle anywhere in the country. Flying the plane is the easy part. It's all the airspace and ATC procedures.
@ Ben C this is very random but I’m heavily thinking of becoming a pilot I don’t have my ppl and was wondering what you think on atp for a full program to get everything as well as what your opinion is on airlines hiring people without college diplomas I hope your having a great day
@@noahsucharczuk Yes, regional airlines are hiring pilots without college degrees. They then have the ability to take advantage of flow-through agreements to "flow" to a major airline. Due to the pilot shortage, pay at the regional airlines has gone up dramatically, approaching the current major airline pay rates. Some senior pilots at the regionals at staying put, enjoying the pay and seniority. Your choice to become a professional pilot must come from the heart. Everyone from my peer group has been interested in flying since childhood: building and flying model planes, reading aviation books, watching flying movies and looking up at the sky every time a planes flies overhead. It's in our blood. Most kids now starting flight school on a whim don't know a 747 from a P-51. God help them. If you're just doing it for the money, you'd be better off going to medical school or law school. Probably easier, but certainly a more predictable career path. Left seat of a 777 is a long hard path. You have to enjoy the journey. Assuming you absolutely LOVE flying, better start hitting the books. You read my above advice, so there's your plan. Where you train depends on your situation. Can you devote full time to your goal? Or do you need to work while training? Part 141 schools are the best. Very structured and they don't miss much. Part 61 Flight Schools are the sort of place where you take lessons and do your own ground school courses. You finish in your own time. Some push you through, like ATP, but they are not a structured program. They like to burn up a lot of expensive airplane time, but they are not a structured 141 school. Both of these full-time options work better of they are within daily driving distance from where you live. If you have to move and get a dorm or apartment, it gets expensive (unless you just pick up and move your whole household). You're probably near an airport that has a flight school. If they have have the capacity to keep you busy full time, then that might be your best option. If you have to live away from home, then go to a Part 141 school. Google that to find out where they are. If there's an ATP location within driving distance, then do that. You can mix and match: local flight school to get your PPL and make sure you like flying, and not have to move. Then go to a full time school if the local flight school can't handle you full time. My nephew is at ATP because it's a half hour drive from home (I made his sell his motorcycle and get an electric car :) In any case, here's what you need to do: Go to the nearest flight school and take a demo ride. Find out if flying suits you. Don't worry about airsickness. If you get it, you'll get over it after a couple flights. Don't let that dissuade you. Get a King online course (kingschools.com). Get the package deal that covers PPL, Instruments, Commercial, CFI. It's a lot of money, but worth it in the long run. Start the Private Pilot ground school. It comes with a certificate (if you do well on their practice exams) so you can take the written test. If you can get the written done before you start flying, you'll be ahead of the game. Then work on the Instrument ground school while doing the PPL flying (or get it done sooner). Lots of professional CFI's on TH-cam with immense amounts on info. Got a question? YT has an explanation. Good YT Channels: The Finer Points, MZeroA, FlightInsight, Rod Machado and many more. Same applies to learning the avionics (Garmin 430 or G1000 GPS systems). How to talk on the radio (a big stumbling block). Plenty of YT videos on that. LiveATC iPhone app. you can dial in comms from your local airport or elsewhere. You can download manuals from the FAA website (Airplane Flying Handbook, Pilots handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Instrument Flying handbook, etc). Use Goodreader app on an iPad to organize all this material that you'll collect. You'll also need ForeFlight on your iPad for aviation charts, etc. It has a free trial period so you can learn it (YT Channel ForeFlight for instructional videos). Get the follow-on subscription from the flight schools. They usually have access to a discount. The local FBO/flight school will have paper charts ("VFR Sectional") that are easier to learn from. Get a cheaper expired chart for now. You'll need "pilot stuff": local area VFR Sectional chart, plotter, E6B calculator (get the electronic kind. you can use it for your written tests) I recommend the ASA CX-3. iPad (a 10" iPad with ForeFlight recommended memory. A yoke mounted iPad mini is awesome (as a second iPad) if you have money to burn, but the 10-inch will be primary). For actual flying: Headset. I recommend a Bose A20. There are cheaper alternatives that'll work fine. Some flight schools will provide headsets with the plane. Check with the flight school. Kneeboard (nothing fancy, just something that can hold a notepad). Apps for your iPhone: LiveATC, Flightradar24, ADS-BExchange (aircraft tracking), any weather apps. Well, what are you waiting for.....
I have mentored couple of kids to become a pilot. They both went to ATP flight school paying about $68,000. They both completed the program and became CFI,CFII. They made enough money by being a flight instructor and paid off their loan within 1 year. Now they both work for United. However, their experience at ATP was horrible. ATP didn’t have enough planes to train. and their chief flight instructors were horrible. The entire course was a 9 month program. But it took more than 18 months to finish their program. Personally, I would not recommend ATP flight school in Long Beach.
I’ve been in RDU through ATP crew, can get out of that airport in about 5 min. I’d say the time mismanagement is more on your CFI, that airport is not nearly as busy as you think. When you build more time you’ll realize the small 20 min time (maximum, I can’t imagine you spending 40min) will also be beneficial because you’re still learning... but that’s another point. This is coming from an ATP student who went 0-commercial in FXE, the busiest GA airport in the US. Weather we’re 100% agreed, as soon as you have an understanding it’s crucial that you start offering input into go/nogo decisions.
Arturo B Absolutely, as the days go by, I’m starting to speed things up. As students, we all go through the “slow process” of learning and correct checklists and procedures. I personally like class C training. It gets you competent on the coms. Thanks for the input.
This is exactly why I try very very hard as an instructor to make careful decisions on whether or not I fly a student in certain weather, and why I coach my instructors to do the same - if you're on TOLs flight 1 or 2 and crosswind component is 10+ kts, that student is going to gain nothing of value. Yes, there is definitely a time and place to expand those personal minimums and step outside your comfort zone to gain experience and higher exposure, but you as a private pilot student in your very first stages of flight training shouldn't be having to make those decisions, that should be the instructor's responsibility and a good instructor will respect your investment and actually honor your right to a quality education. ATP is a very large company and although there are a ton of fantastic instructors, there are also, unfortunately, some pretty poor ones as well who literally do not care at all about their students. I like what you said about the C vs D airspace too - although you do burn a bit more time being based out of a Charlie airport, there are still pros to learning in a high traffic and fast paced ATC environment, namely the biggest and most obvious being your radio communication skills and situational awareness will be built on a very strong foundation, and since this is an airline program these skills will serve you well in your future career. My last little two cents is that at the end of the day it is your money and it is your program, if you feel like you are with a bad instructor, a flight will be wasted money, or anything at all like that, speak up and don't be afraid to let someone else in the company know. You are paying (at today's current cost) around $80,000-100,000 in exchange for a quality education...make sure you get your money's worth!
That’s a ton of money. I teach at a part 61 school in western North Carolina. At our dual rate for the full 250 hours at 185 per hour it would only be 46,000
@@natespielberg88 get the 1250-1500 hrs working as a cfi anywhere and have at least an AS (even better if its aviation related), and you can get in the regionals without too much of an issue. The extra money spent at atp can be used to get a degree, which will help you later down the line.
I think getting your PPL in class G airspace somewhere in the desert without a lot of traffic is the cheapest and most effective way to get your licenses.
I remember at Louisiana Tech Aviation, they told us we couldn't taxi faster than we could walk. Even at their small airport it could take up to 10 minutes just to get to the end of the runway and you still needed to fly for an hour. So with each flight, you're really paying for, up to, an hour and 1/2 on the plane time. I got out of the program.
I mean per the PHAK it says taxi should be at a fast walking pace. One of my DPEs kept bugging me when I did my instrument check ride on the ground cause I was at 7kts per the GPS ground speed lol
Good points on how to use your ATP money wisely. I did my advanced training ATP KVGT. My instructors were excellent at maximizing flight training time.
I GOT MY PRIVATE AND INSTRUMENT RATINGS WHILE A MEMBER OF A MILITARY FLYING CLUB. Piper cherokee for $19/hour and $10/instructor for private and $14 for getting my instrument. I received my commercial after joining the Army flying helicopters. ATP is the most expensive route. Flying clubs are the way to go to include multi-engine and commercial. Jet time can come from flight safety.
Do not bother flying/training if crosswinds are an issue. The only calm day was yesterday. Learning handle lots of wind conditions is imperative in aviation. If not, look elsewhere for work/career. Aviation is a serious requires focus, attention and awareness. No time for games, using devices, etc.
Obtaining any paying job for a low hour applicant is often the biggest hurdle . The idea is to build up hours and experience with different types of aircraft (twin turboprop is the most sought after time). Many trained pilots never work in the industry because they cannot get that first or second job...even on very low pay.
@Dan Pizzi Firearms Instructor Hi Dan. I'm currently using the GI Bill to fund flight training. It has it's ups and downs when it comes to your personal "time frame versus money" concept. I go to a part 141 university for a degree in aviation which the only current way the gi bill covers ALL of it. Since it is a legitimate college the entire path from instrument to CFI is MUCH longer than a part 61 school or ATP. I'm actually looking into dropping it and paying for flight school out of pocket (why I'm on the ATP video) because I'd rather be a little in debt and finish through CFI within a year instead of doing it in though the college over the next two years for free. The GI Bill will still pay for flight training if you go part 61 on your own, however they now max it out to around $14k a YEAR. So unless your planning on taking 3-4 years to complete the entire pipeline, you will be paying out of pocket anyway. Like I said it's all preference, if you're young and don't mind spending the 2+ years in college just to get from PPL to CFI, it's definitely worth it!
@Dan Pizzi Firearms Instructor unfortunately here in the UK, that minimum time is 12 years… that’s far too much of a commitment for anyone not looking for a career in the air force
If you have to travel for atp i would reccomend morristown. They're located in nj and are a stones throw from heavy class g mountains and new york city respectively. Been flying in that region my whole life and i think it is truly the best area to learn to fly in on the east coast
Yeah, this mostly sounds like what you're really trying to say is "don't pick an ATP school at a Class C". You were talking about landings and having to do a couple go arounds and how that's eating into your time and money. You're not wrong, but you're looking at all the negatives of it. When I fly if I decide to go around, I look at it as a positive; it's good to know how to do a proper go around and know your limits, always be vigilant of whats happening on the runway because sometimes a dingbat didn't switch his transponder and decided to take off when you're on a short final. You'd be doing that even if you were going through a slightly cheaper, local flight school, still eating up hobbs time. Go arounds happen, queues on the taxiway happen, even at uncontrolled airports, and it's all good for your training.
Weird how ATP quoted me 86K, and then I drove 20 mins east to a guy who had been instructing for 30 years. Got quoted 38K from private to CII in a cessna 172 at an estimated 220 hours... I'm guessing Seattle is considered class c?
Spot on! You are totally right. It's not worth the money, the time, the effort and the risk you put in it cause you gonna be a low timer and it's damn hard to get a decent job.
And the student debt you will have to pay back it’s a really bad idea. There are so many flight departments with piles of resumes. The pilot shortage is an absolute myth.
@@topofthegreen Not disagreeing with what Anas said; My position is I walked away from college after discovering they were not as technical as me: I have been told of piles of resumes some 5' tall in my craft / trade and I can be sure the entire aviation industry has 10 Times that like 50-foot or something so how to get in a jump-seat when the requirement does not even focus on technical so totally escapes me that it seems superficial to my nature; *What pilot shortage?* No wonder the MAX incident occurs
I believe this pilot shortage is being pushed by the flight schools to generate more business for them selves trust me flight departments are not hurting for pilots. I have to ask myself spending all that money on flight training only to not have a job isn’t worth it, no it’s not because you start making 28 maybe $40,000 a year but you owe $200,000 in debt if you choose to borrow mine, there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
@@topofthegreen Correct though for the benefit of poster - if this is what one chooses the ATP is leader or Top 5 so if going to go that way then get with it program is just what they do
For a guy wearing a ATP polo, explain to me how all this "eating into your time" is the fault of ATP, WX, airspace, ATC, go-arounds?! If your in a program take responsibility for learning the checklists...yeesh. So remember! Every time you fly it eats into your time...great advice.
Thank you sir for this video, very informative and I totally agree about choosing right location, also you mentioned some cons of class C but it could be pros also because if you talk a lot to tower you mastered your radio communications which are great, for me as my English is the second language I always thinking about communication,,,,, so anyway thank you for video and gladly waiting for next one
Nice video content! Forgive me for chiming in, I would love your thoughts. Have you ever tried - Rozardner Flying Bird Reality (just google it)? It is a great one of a kind product for how to get pilot license without the normal expense. Ive heard some decent things about it and my old buddy Taylor at very last got excellent success with it.
My advice is go to a local community college flight school right out of high school. I’m 46 with a useless at degree and regret my career path every day. Don’t do what I did!!
When I went to ATP, my progress and MONEY were hit hard due to a change of FOUR CFI's in a matter of a couple months!!! This hit me hard financially due to the lack of continuity between CFI's. The instructors were transitioning to the regionals as I sat there bewildered. Each instructor had to go through where the last one left off. I had to fly out to a near by airport for my multi check ride with another student because we did not have an instructor to support/fly us to the near by airport for the check ride. Each subsequent instructor had a different approach in teaching which slowed down my progress. That's the downside to ATP with my experience. The instructors are building time to get their Airline Transport Pilot cert and build their 1500 hours. Once they interview for the Regionals' they split. In hind sight, It would have been cheaper to go to a Gold Seal CFI one on one.
Ok, considering I live in Louisville, about 15 minutes from where I live (7th busiest airport in the world thanks to UPS), and Clarksville Regional Municipal Airport is about 30 minutes away, and has ATP courses, is it feasible and cheaper to use the Indiana location, as opposed to going to, say Atlanta, or another regional airport for better training?
4:47 It takes us normally 15 mins from engine start to take off ...then more taxi time when finishing a lesson.Perhaps longer lessons might be better ..although then pilot fatigue can set in I guess? Just have to accept that everyone is doing the same.
Rule #1: Nothing ever goes as planned, no lesson starts or ends on time, everything costs a LOT more, you end up being minimally prepared, if actually underprepared, maintaining currency is a bitch, and trying to get a real paying job is an exercise in futility.
It’s actually good to do some of your training is a class C or D. But the most of the stick and rudder time like practicing landing should be done in a class G
Hi Ed, I'm new to the flight scene as in I have absolutely zero experience whether it be written or hands on training. I did some college but have no degree, and I live in Seattle. What is the best approach to becoming a commercial pilot? I inquired at ATP and did my own research and I just don't want to be in that deep of a debt while I'm pursuing my dream job. Any feedback from you or your subs would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Hey, how are you? Im a private pilot, but not current. I did my flight training at LHZ and RDU. Currently I am working full time, but three years out from retirement. After retirement, I am looking into ATP because I would like to start a third career as an airline pilot. I am 53 now but would be 56 after retirement. Woiuld ATP at RDU would be a good start for me or not?
You need to be sure you can pass a class 1 medical first. You're also quite late in the game as it takes a lot of flight time to go to the majors, and they have a mandatory retirement of age 65. That said, you can fly anything less than that doesn't require an ATP certificate, like private jets, etc... lots of jobs there - as well as a lot of retired ATP's go to work in the commercial jet sector as well.
Ive always been able to do pattern work in a class C airspace with no problem. Just gotta watch out for the low cost carrier Boeings and the Airbus. Every time there’s a jet landing, the tower just asks me to extend the downwind to get the jet in but also for wake turbulence. But I guess that just depends on the area.
I've had the same experience at my local class C, never had a problem doing pattern work. I usually take students out to the local (10 minute flight away) uncontrolled fields to get them comfortable with radio calls and get over the stage fright a lot of first-timers have when talking on the radio. Other than that, I prefer controlled airports for pattern work because I have seen way too many idiots do really dangerous stuff at non-towered fields lol
Operator77788 Bay Area it really depends on where you live. I went to tour some small flight schools around the Bay Area and the cost would be about $20, 000 - $24,000, which is more than receiving your private pilot from ATP flight school.
I was winged in 1986 by the Army at Fort Rucker, big airlines were not interested in hiring Rotary Wing Pilots. My fellow Army Aviators with heavy RW time in the reserves with me, could only be hired by the Crap Box Regional Airlines. Some guys made only $12,500 per year, & guys at Mesa said was a good weight loss program. Regional's seemed to very competitive with the Army at abusing their Pilots. I witness to a lot of regional horror stories, my regular Army Troop CDR & XO had to take a day off to chill after hearing on how one of their buddies was treated at a bankrupt regional. The Army paid better than a regional but with a whole different kind of suck. But most of your Army Aviation career is deployed in a tent with broke dick aircraft, Crappy base housing, stupid non-flying additional duties, Crappy assignments supposedly to help your career, Commanders trying to kill you, Major Command decisions by Non-Pilot Generals . Aviation Warrant Officers will always be assigned at Company/Troop level and Commissioned Officer pilots will barely fly and serve in miserable staff job's hoping for a command. I went back college and got degree, and went corporate & hated it, got married to beautiful women and we own a business, retired from USAR and never got called up for the Gulf wars. I remember after 9/11 when major airline pilots took major pay cuts and had very unhappy wives who disliked lifestyle changes. I was in MAG-41 at NAS Dallas TX, before the transferring to the Army for flight school when Braniff folded, My old USMCR Squadron CDR was out job as SR. Capt at Braniff. He was lucky at his age to be hired by Piedmont stating at the bottom. My advice for flight training get the military to pay for it & do not take student loans.
I always used to fly spontaneously at Page field when 31 was opened up. It was just a straight shot in 2 min to take off. Taxiing all the way down 5 got old after a while. I totally feel you when you talk about time, money certainly adds up. For sure.
Thanks for these super helpful videos. Wells Fargo and Sallie Mae declined me. So I am thinking to gets ppl and then transfer to ATP that way I can afford to pay the other $58,995. I stay in Atlanta do you any schools who provide ppl for cheap. The least they are charging is $11000 for ppl I want something cheaper than that
I know for students it eats up money but as an instructor I probably made most of my hours out of RDU flying to Johnston, Sanford, and henderson oxford lol
f3nd13y Don’t forget Person County and Kinston ;). I’ll feel the same way as soon as I’m an instructor. Also, I’m much faster and depends if you get to leave off of 23L. Thanks for giving me a shout!
And when you become a ATP/Commercial pilot you will be flying in and out of class B and C airports so you might as well get efficient at proficient at B and C operations. Pay now, pay later...
I agree man find the right school and location time is money. The way I look at is if one was to go to this school back in 2008 when we had the recession I would say no but do to the fact that the airlines are paying big money and upgrade time zooming. My professor who was a professional corporate pilot for 30 years and worked heavily on the management side with flight safety told us it’s worth every penny when you go for this career. All the big pilots from United and other companies tell me the same info it’s the best time to become a pilot the money is their and the jobs are growing due to the mass retirements. Anyways great video and keep up the good work. I’m going to Morristown New Jersey ATP flight school
tyler atkinson Yes, it’s totally the best time to be a pilot. I’m grateful to be here and it’s all about timing. Good luck to you and your new journey. Thanks for watch.
Love the videos! I’m headed to ATP in Daytona Beach in August. I appreciate the honesty and the reality of what you’re going through. How has your experience been thus far in the learning aspect? What’s your average study time daily? Do you feel that you are retaining the information?
Skylar Schofield Yes, it’s been a wild ride so far. It’s a ton of information all at once. I could honestly study more then I do. I have my TOL EVAL Monday. I’ve had the most issues with landing and crosswind landings. Today, I’m heading up for some soft field and short field tol’s. Just get the written stuff out of the way ASAP. I have heard DB is a great location. Good luck to you. Thanks for watching.
Jacob Rothschild we have an oral exam book, plus’s we have some “know it all” handouts that help us study for the check ride and oral exam. Thanks for subscribing and watching.
Ed Creed - Base2Final what is ground school like? Is it all online ? Class room setting? One on one. I’m looking at the Morristown location and debating. By this time you should have a job as a pilot. How was the placement ? Did you Land a good career.
*great, well made video. Very through. I got my PPL for $5K, part 61. And this video makes me feel better because I don't have money to attend ATP, but everybody I know (a lot of pilot friends) are going there. I feel better not being able to go now*
After watching this video I'm a little concerned about the location I picked, Arlington Municipal (KGKY). Anyone has any experience flying around that airport or do you know if their is a designated practice area? Thanks!
KLTpumba Absolutely, this is a great program. They set you up from the start to be a professional pilot. It’s fast pace, but you are trained to be professional from the start. You will see real quick the difference between this training and a mom and pop training. All in all it’s worth it. Thanks for watching.
Yay, I found someone who started new! I am actually planning to start in ATP program in a few months. Are you on your progress on getting the private pilot license or something else?
Lol Nodochi Hi There .. So, I’m still in my PPL stage. I’m supposed to solo on 4/10. I’m a bit behind schedule:due to weather. I’ve had me good days and bad., but just keep chugging along. Thanks for watching.
@@phxkid13 it's been confusing because VA made it difficult specifically for flight training. I myself went to 2 local flight schools here in New York. Just checked.
My son is gradating from high school and wants to be a pilot should he do a few years of college first at least an Assoc. degree? Or can he start right out of high school? Also we live in Dallas would be best for him to choose a different location? He can live at home and go to school , or would it be cheaper in the long run to go to a smaller city?
Kellye Raiborn Great questions. Currently, we have two 18 y/o’s. One of them will be finishing up in the next two months. After that he is going back to collage and finishing his degree. What he told me was, by going to ATP, it saves him 4 years of waiting to get all his certifications. If his goal is to fly for the airlines, my opinion would be go the ATP route. That way if he chooses to finish his degree, he can work as a CFI and get his 1500 hrs at the same time. As far as Dallas.. I’m a big fan! I toured the Addison ATP facility a few years ago and loved it. I moved to Raleigh, so came here. Dallas is a great place. Hope that helps. Good luck and all the best to your son. Thanks for watching.
ATP just recently changed their policies for students. In order to start now, they say you need at least 2 years of experience in a professional work setting. That being college, or work. That way someone who is 40 isn’t being instructed by someone fresh out of high school and they know the person has proven some amount of dedication and work so they don’t wash out.
Kellye Raiborn is recommend getting at least an associates degree, many regionals do still require it and you have to remember you also have to be 21 to get your atp to work for the regionals so no big rush to sit around with the time but not the age. Having an associates also puts you that much closer to a bachelors which in the future your son may want to get into some of the major carriers like delta and United etc
Hi Ed, thanks for the videos. I'm considering starting ATP this coming year, but am unsure of how to select a location. What kinds of things should I consider when choosing where to attend ATP? Also, how difficult is it to become an instructor within the program? Thanks!
@@xxxkingahmed1375 Hi, I ended up deciding on a different flight program. I completed school at Aeroguard Flight Training Center in Phoenix, AZ. I know they also have locations in California, Texas, and Florida. It was an awesome and cost- effective program for getting your Commercial- Multi and CFI/ CFII and MEI ratings.
Wow. I’m surprised how expensive the base prices for the ratings are in the US. Here in Canada PPL, CPL, ME, and IFR are about $45 000 CDN base price or $60 000 CDN max. Not to mention the US dollar is worth much more here. It would only be $45 000 USD. CFI here is about $10 000 CDN ($7 500 USD) more.
Hey Ed, so I am looking to get back into flying and working towards getting an airline job here as my second career. I have a PPL and IR with about 400 hours with some multi time and level D 737-800 time. But, I need my multi, com, and FI so I can start flying full time as soon as possible and build hours. Ideally I would really like to build Multi time. Is ATP a good choice for a potential student such as myself?
TWA717 WOW, you are way ahead of me. Honestly, not sure about the requirements after PPL for ATP. Sounds like you have done a lot of work. I would just give them a call and ask what you can or can’t do. I don’t want to give you the wrong information. I just know most people come in with 0 time or their PPL and then get their IR from there. I appreciate you asking, but definitely give them a call. Thanks for watching!
So is it always a 9 month program or does it vary depending on how ur doing?? Is it easy to kinda get left behind because it's so fast paced?? What happens if u can't complete it in 9 months? Will they flunk u out? Or will it just add to your loan $?
Grant Moore So, the program is set up with “milestones” you have so many hrs to figure some things out to move on to the next block. If for any reason, you don’t do well, you will have to add on to your hrs.. and yes, that comes out of your loan. The program is set up for nine months; however, you move at a quick pace, so you can usually expect 6 to 7 months depending on aircraft availability and weather. Each person is different, so if you pick up things quickly, you can move ahead faster. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
Ed Creed Thanks alot. It is certainly gonna be beneficial to prepare myself. I'm considering getting my ppl before I enroll in atp.. Thanks for all the tips!
Grant Moore I came in with my PPL. It’s a pretty good idea to do that cuz you establish great knowledge. There’s so much to know about aviation. If I can do ATP all over again I would finish all the written tests and know more than an average private pilot. By the way when you sign up they give you the gear and apps to do your written tests. If you keep your receipts you will get refunded or you can take the tests at your local Atp.
Grant Moore Not exactly sure how far in advance but give ATP a call. I met someone who didn’t start till 6 months. He got most of the writtens done. There’s 6 written test. Remember to take the CFII and instrument at the same time cuz it’s the same test. Also as Ed mentioned on the video be careful with location. Some are better than others. Keep in mind the difficulty of the examiners too. Wish I did that so it wouldn’t be as stressful. The examiners at my location are pretty tough.
Watched the other from May, 2018. I see why you failed a checkride. You talk like a 4 year old with no point to make. If you fly the same way you try to explain things... sheesh
Thanks for the info. Im getting ready to start training at ATP. How many days a week is a typical student training and how many days is ground school? Is there uniform requirments?
Hey there.. so, this is self study. It’s entirely up to you on how much you study. You will have ground, but not every day. You will most likely fly every day or every other day. Depending on weather you can fly a lot. Thanks for your question.
Hi Ed, I'm looking to start my training at ATP in Concord NC, because I live in Concord. I already have my PPL but I got that back in 2002 and really haven't flown since then. I was looking to build time before starting the IR at ATP. Will they let me build any kind of time or familiarize me with flying again before jumping into the IR. I'm asking because the ATP tuition cost a lot more than other flight schools so do they let you fly without charging for hours? I do realize it's fast pace and self study, so I'm thinking that I will need to fly a few times through another flight school before doing the ATP program. Also not sure if you know anything about the ATP Concord site, but since you are in Raleigh I thought I would ask your opinion about training there. Do you know if I will get a lot of flight time? And is it a good place to train? Any informative will be helpful! Thanks for the videos they are very informative! All the best in your new career!
Hi Rob, i was in the same boat with only having my private, I got all the way through instrument and commercial for about 25000$ at a local FBO at home. Be wary about signing a prepaid flight training agreement. With just my private pilot ATP wanted 56000 up front. Find a local school that has good reviews and start going by the ratings one by one. I was able to do this with minimal debt addition while still working.
Could be? ATP is a waste of money. Was there in 2014. If they don't like you, they will do everything in their power to force you to wash out. I'm fairly sure they also blacklist you with their clique of partner airlines as well.
When you say "all your ratings", what does that mean? To me that would mean IR, COM ASEL, COM AMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, and MEI. And having shopped around a lot, I highly doubt that. I got my IR, COM ASEL, and COM AMEL for about $65,000 as part of a college associates degree program
@@tommy35ss I got all these ratings for a grand total or $800.00. Yes $800.00. Airline Transport Pilot - Airplane Multiengine Land with ATR-42; ATR-72; B-727; EMB-145; L-382; L-1329; N-265 type ratings. Also Flight Instructor Airplane Single and Multiengine ; Instrument Airplane. Plus Remote Pilot certificate. The $800.00 breakdown was $600.00 for Private Pilot and $200.00 for Flight Instructor Airplane Single Engine Land. Everything else no cost to me. Cheers. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thanks for posting. Excellent point on "chair flying". I'm former Air Force and current major airline senior captain. We did lots of "chair flying". If you can't do it on the ground, there's no point in trying it in the air. Meaning, that procedures, radio calls, running checklist, knowing the airplane and it's systems, that all needs to be mastered before the first flight in an airplane. You can do it in a chair with a cockpit poster on the wall, in a cockpit mock-up (cockpit procedures trainer) or a sim. But trying to learn it in a plane is a waste of money. You get in a plane to validate what you learned on the ground. You even learn landings in a sim (Redbird sims aren't what we have in the airlines, but they'll do just fine). Instrument Rating is a good example. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. It's all about Instrument scan (hand eye video game coordination), rules, procedures, cockpit organization, reading charts, setting up avionics, talking to ATC, staying ahead of the plane/sim and situational awareness. It should all be first done in a sim (any type). Until you can do everything perfectly in a sim, there's no reason to step in a plane. Spend 10 hrs worth of sim time (after passing the instrument written) out of your own pocket before your first instrument lesson in a plane. An airplane is a very poor classroom. Learning in busy airspace has advantages if you want to be an airline pilot. If you get 1500 hrs as a CFI in class G or easy class D with no busy class B or C nearby, you're gonna have a tough time as a regional jet FO. It'll be an eye opener going into Chicago, JFK, LAX etc. And you'll be going into those busy airports multiple times per day. I taught a buddy of mine to fly a few years back (in his experimental Piper Cub variant) in Southern Calif. Every lesson we went to a different airport. If you can navigate through So Cal airspace, you can easily handle anywhere in the country. Flying the plane is the easy part. It's all the airspace and ATC procedures.
Man, thank you for this incite. This is very usefull.
Wow. Thanks for this insight!
@ Ben C this is very random but I’m heavily thinking of becoming a pilot I don’t have my ppl and was wondering what you think on atp for a full program to get everything as well as what your opinion is on airlines hiring people without college diplomas I hope your having a great day
@@noahsucharczuk Yes, regional airlines are hiring pilots without college degrees. They then have the ability to take advantage of flow-through agreements to "flow" to a major airline. Due to the pilot shortage, pay at the regional airlines has gone up dramatically, approaching the current major airline pay rates. Some senior pilots at the regionals at staying put, enjoying the pay and seniority. Your choice to become a professional pilot must come from the heart. Everyone from my peer group has been interested in flying since childhood: building and flying model planes, reading aviation books, watching flying movies and looking up at the sky every time a planes flies overhead. It's in our blood. Most kids now starting flight school on a whim don't know a 747 from a P-51. God help them. If you're just doing it for the money, you'd be better off going to medical school or law school. Probably easier, but certainly a more predictable career path. Left seat of a 777 is a long hard path. You have to enjoy the journey. Assuming you absolutely LOVE flying, better start hitting the books. You read my above advice, so there's your plan. Where you train depends on your situation. Can you devote full time to your goal? Or do you need to work while training? Part 141 schools are the best. Very structured and they don't miss much. Part 61 Flight Schools are the sort of place where you take lessons and do your own ground school courses. You finish in your own time. Some push you through, like ATP, but they are not a structured program. They like to burn up a lot of expensive airplane time, but they are not a structured 141 school. Both of these full-time options work better of they are within daily driving distance from where you live. If you have to move and get a dorm or apartment, it gets expensive (unless you just pick up and move your whole household). You're probably near an airport that has a flight school. If they have have the capacity to keep you busy full time, then that might be your best option. If you have to live away from home, then go to a Part 141 school. Google that to find out where they are. If there's an ATP location within driving distance, then do that. You can mix and match: local flight school to get your PPL and make sure you like flying, and not have to move. Then go to a full time school if the local flight school can't handle you full time. My nephew is at ATP because it's a half hour drive from home (I made his sell his motorcycle and get an electric car :) In any case, here's what you need to do: Go to the nearest flight school and take a demo ride. Find out if flying suits you. Don't worry about airsickness. If you get it, you'll get over it after a couple flights. Don't let that dissuade you. Get a King online course (kingschools.com). Get the package deal that covers PPL, Instruments, Commercial, CFI. It's a lot of money, but worth it in the long run. Start the Private Pilot ground school. It comes with a certificate (if you do well on their practice exams) so you can take the written test. If you can get the written done before you start flying, you'll be ahead of the game. Then work on the Instrument ground school while doing the PPL flying (or get it done sooner). Lots of professional CFI's on TH-cam with immense amounts on info. Got a question? YT has an explanation. Good YT Channels: The Finer Points, MZeroA, FlightInsight, Rod Machado and many more. Same applies to learning the avionics (Garmin 430 or G1000 GPS systems). How to talk on the radio (a big stumbling block). Plenty of YT videos on that. LiveATC iPhone app. you can dial in comms from your local airport or elsewhere. You can download manuals from the FAA website (Airplane Flying Handbook, Pilots handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge, Instrument Flying handbook, etc). Use Goodreader app on an iPad to organize all this material that you'll collect. You'll also need ForeFlight on your iPad for aviation charts, etc. It has a free trial period so you can learn it (YT Channel ForeFlight for instructional videos). Get the follow-on subscription from the flight schools. They usually have access to a discount. The local FBO/flight school will have paper charts ("VFR Sectional") that are easier to learn from. Get a cheaper expired chart for now. You'll need "pilot stuff": local area VFR Sectional chart, plotter, E6B calculator (get the electronic kind. you can use it for your written tests) I recommend the ASA CX-3. iPad (a 10" iPad with ForeFlight recommended memory. A yoke mounted iPad mini is awesome (as a second iPad) if you have money to burn, but the 10-inch will be primary). For actual flying: Headset. I recommend a Bose A20. There are cheaper alternatives that'll work fine. Some flight schools will provide headsets with the plane. Check with the flight school. Kneeboard (nothing fancy, just something that can hold a notepad). Apps for your iPhone: LiveATC, Flightradar24, ADS-BExchange (aircraft tracking), any weather apps. Well, what are you waiting for.....
@@benc1103you are a saint
I have mentored couple of kids to become a pilot. They both went to ATP flight school paying about $68,000. They both completed the program and became CFI,CFII. They made enough money by being a flight instructor and paid off their loan within 1 year. Now they both work for United. However, their experience at ATP was horrible. ATP didn’t have enough planes to train. and their chief flight instructors were horrible.
The entire course was a 9 month program. But it took more than 18 months to finish their program. Personally, I would not recommend ATP flight school in Long Beach.
Good thing I'm at a different ATP location
C N i am the same way. I am trying to get into the Dallas-Addison facility.
@@Straightahead101 whic one are you in?
Damn that’s the closest one to me , I wonder if time has made the school better
@@Neptune8 doubtful I’ve seen a few different bad reviews about that location
I do pattern work, touch n go’s all the time in Charlie airspace, enjoy the complexity, keeps me sharp.
talking to towers and ground is good experience especially to new beginners
I’ve been in RDU through ATP crew, can get out of that airport in about 5 min. I’d say the time mismanagement is more on your CFI, that airport is not nearly as busy as you think. When you build more time you’ll realize the small 20 min time (maximum, I can’t imagine you spending 40min) will also be beneficial because you’re still learning... but that’s another point. This is coming from an ATP student who went 0-commercial in FXE, the busiest GA airport in the US. Weather we’re 100% agreed, as soon as you have an understanding it’s crucial that you start offering input into go/nogo decisions.
Arturo B Absolutely, as the days go by, I’m starting to speed things up. As students, we all go through the “slow process” of learning and correct checklists and procedures. I personally like class C training. It gets you competent on the coms. Thanks for the input.
This is exactly why I try very very hard as an instructor to make careful decisions on whether or not I fly a student in certain weather, and why I coach my instructors to do the same - if you're on TOLs flight 1 or 2 and crosswind component is 10+ kts, that student is going to gain nothing of value. Yes, there is definitely a time and place to expand those personal minimums and step outside your comfort zone to gain experience and higher exposure, but you as a private pilot student in your very first stages of flight training shouldn't be having to make those decisions, that should be the instructor's responsibility and a good instructor will respect your investment and actually honor your right to a quality education. ATP is a very large company and although there are a ton of fantastic instructors, there are also, unfortunately, some pretty poor ones as well who literally do not care at all about their students.
I like what you said about the C vs D airspace too - although you do burn a bit more time being based out of a Charlie airport, there are still pros to learning in a high traffic and fast paced ATC environment, namely the biggest and most obvious being your radio communication skills and situational awareness will be built on a very strong foundation, and since this is an airline program these skills will serve you well in your future career.
My last little two cents is that at the end of the day it is your money and it is your program, if you feel like you are with a bad instructor, a flight will be wasted money, or anything at all like that, speak up and don't be afraid to let someone else in the company know. You are paying (at today's current cost) around $80,000-100,000 in exchange for a quality education...make sure you get your money's worth!
That’s a ton of money. I teach at a part 61 school in western North Carolina. At our dual rate for the full 250 hours at 185 per hour it would only be 46,000
What school is that do you have Airline placement
@@natespielberg88 good Question and exactly my wish?
@@natespielberg88 get the 1250-1500 hrs working as a cfi anywhere and have at least an AS (even better if its aviation related), and you can get in the regionals without too much of an issue. The extra money spent at atp can be used to get a degree, which will help you later down the line.
Guessing $185 per hour is for SE only.
@@natespielberg88 no and that’s why it’s so cheap
I think getting your PPL in class G airspace somewhere in the desert without a lot of traffic is the cheapest and most effective way to get your licenses.
You exactly 💯 % correct sir 👏!!!!
I remember at Louisiana Tech Aviation, they told us we couldn't taxi faster than we could walk. Even at their small airport it could take up to 10 minutes just to get to the end of the runway and you still needed to fly for an hour. So with each flight, you're really paying for, up to, an hour and 1/2 on the plane time. I got out of the program.
It’s Louisiana tho lol gotta lower the expectations
I mean per the PHAK it says taxi should be at a fast walking pace. One of my DPEs kept bugging me when I did my instrument check ride on the ground cause I was at 7kts per the GPS ground speed lol
Ayyy im getting my private at layech rn
Good points on how to use your ATP money wisely. I did my advanced training ATP KVGT. My instructors were excellent at maximizing flight training time.
I GOT MY PRIVATE AND INSTRUMENT RATINGS WHILE A MEMBER OF A MILITARY FLYING CLUB. Piper cherokee for $19/hour and $10/instructor for private and $14 for getting my instrument. I received my commercial after joining the Army flying helicopters. ATP is the most expensive route. Flying clubs are the way to go to include multi-engine and commercial. Jet time can come from flight safety.
You committed 10 years to the military?
Do not bother flying/training if crosswinds are an issue. The only calm day was yesterday. Learning handle lots of wind conditions is imperative in aviation. If not, look elsewhere for work/career. Aviation is a serious requires focus, attention and awareness. No time for games, using devices, etc.
Obtaining any paying job for a low hour applicant is often the biggest hurdle . The idea is to build up hours and experience with different types of aircraft (twin turboprop is the most sought after time). Many trained pilots never work in the industry because they cannot get that first or second job...even on very low pay.
@Dan Pizzi Firearms Instructor Hi Dan. I'm currently using the GI Bill to fund flight training. It has it's ups and downs when it comes to your personal "time frame versus money" concept. I go to a part 141 university for a degree in aviation which the only current way the gi bill covers ALL of it. Since it is a legitimate college the entire path from instrument to CFI is MUCH longer than a part 61 school or ATP. I'm actually looking into dropping it and paying for flight school out of pocket (why I'm on the ATP video) because I'd rather be a little in debt and finish through CFI within a year instead of doing it in though the college over the next two years for free. The GI Bill will still pay for flight training if you go part 61 on your own, however they now max it out to around $14k a YEAR. So unless your planning on taking 3-4 years to complete the entire pipeline, you will be paying out of pocket anyway. Like I said it's all preference, if you're young and don't mind spending the 2+ years in college just to get from PPL to CFI, it's definitely worth it!
@Dan Pizzi Firearms Instructor unfortunately here in the UK, that minimum time is 12 years… that’s far too much of a commitment for anyone not looking for a career in the air force
If you have to travel for atp i would reccomend morristown. They're located in nj and are a stones throw from heavy class g mountains and new york city respectively. Been flying in that region my whole life and i think it is truly the best area to learn to fly in on the east coast
@ 5:29 yep ..I still call G the "go for it" airspace and C for congested and D for dialogue .
Yeah, this mostly sounds like what you're really trying to say is "don't pick an ATP school at a Class C". You were talking about landings and having to do a couple go arounds and how that's eating into your time and money. You're not wrong, but you're looking at all the negatives of it. When I fly if I decide to go around, I look at it as a positive; it's good to know how to do a proper go around and know your limits, always be vigilant of whats happening on the runway because sometimes a dingbat didn't switch his transponder and decided to take off when you're on a short final. You'd be doing that even if you were going through a slightly cheaper, local flight school, still eating up hobbs time. Go arounds happen, queues on the taxiway happen, even at uncontrolled airports, and it's all good for your training.
ATP has a location at FFC which is uncontrolled. It's located under the ATL Bravo.
Great info, thanks for watching.
Weird how ATP quoted me 86K, and then I drove 20 mins east to a guy who had been instructing for 30 years. Got quoted 38K from private to CII in a cessna 172 at an estimated 220 hours... I'm guessing Seattle is considered class c?
Can u share the name of the flight school tat quoted 38k if u can suggest tat one !!?!
the geek I’d love to know as well
Yes please share I’d like check it out
crickets...
the geek - obviously this is bullshit. Failure to follow up and verify.
you waste all of that money only to find out there is no pilot shortage after all.
Spot on! You are totally right. It's not worth the money, the time, the effort and the risk you put in it cause you gonna be a low timer and it's damn hard to get a decent job.
And the student debt you will have to pay back it’s a really bad idea. There are so many flight departments with piles of resumes. The pilot shortage is an absolute myth.
@@topofthegreen
Not disagreeing with what Anas said; My position is I walked away from college after discovering they were not as technical as me: I have been told of piles of resumes some 5' tall in my craft / trade and I can be sure the entire aviation industry has 10 Times that like 50-foot or something so how to get in a jump-seat when the requirement does not even focus on technical so totally escapes me that it seems superficial to my nature;
*What pilot shortage?*
No wonder the MAX incident occurs
I believe this pilot shortage is being pushed by the flight schools to generate more business for them selves trust me flight departments are not hurting for pilots. I have to ask myself spending all that money on flight training only to not have a job isn’t worth it, no it’s not because you start making 28 maybe $40,000 a year but you owe $200,000 in debt if you choose to borrow mine, there is no pot of gold at the end of this rainbow.
@@topofthegreen
Correct though for the benefit of poster - if this is what one chooses the ATP is leader or Top 5 so if going to go that way then get with it program is just what they do
For a guy wearing a ATP polo, explain to me how all this "eating into your time" is the fault of ATP, WX, airspace, ATC, go-arounds?! If your in a program take responsibility for learning the checklists...yeesh. So remember! Every time you fly it eats into your time...great advice.
Agreed!! If anything, you are getting training with getting all those clearances and that experience with talking with ground etc.
Thank you sir for this video, very informative and I totally agree about choosing right location, also you mentioned some cons of class C but it could be pros also because if you talk a lot to tower you mastered your radio communications which are great, for me as my English is the second language I always thinking about communication,,,,, so anyway thank you for video and gladly waiting for next one
Yevhenii Melnyk Thank you. Class C is good for communication for sure.
I agree, I instruct at a cladd D airport and it is not uncommon for students that transfer from mom and pop flight school to us, to struggle with Coms
Nice video content! Forgive me for chiming in, I would love your thoughts. Have you ever tried - Rozardner Flying Bird Reality (just google it)? It is a great one of a kind product for how to get pilot license without the normal expense. Ive heard some decent things about it and my old buddy Taylor at very last got excellent success with it.
My advice is go to a local community college flight school right out of high school. I’m 46 with a useless at degree and regret my career path every day. Don’t do what I did!!
So which type of location so you recommend for the best quality training and bang for your buck? I'm looking at the Nashville, Phoenix, or Charlotte.
Same here. South is the way to go .
Hi from Boston
KBWG Bowling Green, KY is class E. Class G airspace is away from airports. Simple mistake though.
Yep, my bad on that. Funny how you keep learning as you go and see the mistakes. Thanks for watching.
Class G below 1,200 ft or 700 feet in transition area
When I went to ATP, my progress and MONEY were hit hard due to a change of FOUR CFI's in a matter of a couple months!!! This hit me hard financially due to the lack of continuity between CFI's. The instructors were transitioning to the regionals as I sat there bewildered. Each instructor had to go through where the last one left off. I had to fly out to a near by airport for my multi check ride with another student because we did not have an instructor to support/fly us to the near by airport for the check ride. Each subsequent instructor had a different approach in teaching which slowed down my progress. That's the downside to ATP with my experience. The instructors are building time to get their Airline Transport Pilot cert and build their 1500 hours. Once they interview for the Regionals' they split. In hind sight, It would have been cheaper to go to a Gold Seal CFI one on one.
Thank you for the informative video. Keep up the great work. Super helpful content you're putting out
I love it when you call me Big Pasta Hey, appreciate your comments. Thanks for watching!
If your feelings aren’t easily hurt then go train with Herb at Prairie Air Service. Multi and IFR at the same time for $6000.
We should start an alumni association. Herb rocks. CMEL/ IR 2012 :-)
Is this guy legit?
Does he do from 0- FI?
Not sure; call them.
Ok, considering I live in Louisville, about 15 minutes from where I live (7th busiest airport in the world thanks to UPS), and Clarksville Regional Municipal Airport is about 30 minutes away, and has ATP courses, is it feasible and cheaper to use the Indiana location, as opposed to going to, say Atlanta, or another regional airport for better training?
Yeah I also live in Louisville. Although I think I'd rather go to one of the local flight schools at Bowman Field. Some even have 5 star reviews.
Yes a class C airport is a pain in the you know what. Sometimes it takes 30 to 40 min to get out.
Hi
So class G is the best? Then D and C? Class G may waste less time than D? Is this correct?
4:47 It takes us normally 15 mins from engine start to take off ...then more taxi time when finishing a lesson.Perhaps longer lessons might be better ..although then pilot fatigue can set in I guess? Just have to accept that everyone is doing the same.
Thank you for this video, it answered a couple of my questions and ones I had not considered yet.
Thanks. Good info. I’m mentoring my two grandsons to become pilots and GREAT insights.
What other US flight schools offer some sort of accelerated program but not as fast as ALL ATPs?
Rule #1: Nothing ever goes as planned, no lesson starts or ends on time, everything costs a LOT more, you end up being minimally prepared, if actually underprepared, maintaining currency is a bitch, and trying to get a real paying job is an exercise in futility.
It’s actually good to do some of your training is a class C or D. But the most of the stick and rudder time like practicing landing should be done in a class G
Hi Ed, I'm new to the flight scene as in I have absolutely zero experience whether it be written or hands on training. I did some college but have no degree, and I live in Seattle. What is the best approach to becoming a commercial pilot? I inquired at ATP and did my own research and I just don't want to be in that deep of a debt while I'm pursuing my dream job. Any feedback from you or your subs would be much appreciated. Thank you.
Thank you Buddy. Great Video.
Hey, how are you? Im a private pilot, but not current. I did my flight training at LHZ and RDU. Currently I am working full time, but three years out from retirement. After retirement, I am looking into ATP because I would like to start a third career as an airline pilot. I am 53 now but would be 56 after retirement. Woiuld ATP at RDU would be a good start for me or not?
You need to be sure you can pass a class 1 medical first. You're also quite late in the game as it takes a lot of flight time to go to the majors, and they have a mandatory retirement of age 65. That said, you can fly anything less than that doesn't require an ATP certificate, like private jets, etc... lots of jobs there - as well as a lot of retired ATP's go to work in the commercial jet sector as well.
Ive always been able to do pattern work in a class C airspace with no problem. Just gotta watch out for the low cost carrier Boeings and the Airbus. Every time there’s a jet landing, the tower just asks me to extend the downwind to get the jet in but also for wake turbulence. But I guess that just depends on the area.
I've had the same experience at my local class C, never had a problem doing pattern work. I usually take students out to the local (10 minute flight away) uncontrolled fields to get them comfortable with radio calls and get over the stage fright a lot of first-timers have when talking on the radio. Other than that, I prefer controlled airports for pattern work because I have seen way too many idiots do really dangerous stuff at non-towered fields lol
Hey would you recommend getting your ppl at a different school then attend ATP ?
Operator77788 Bay Area it really depends on where you live. I went to tour some small flight schools around the Bay Area and the cost would be about $20, 000 - $24,000, which is more than receiving your private pilot from ATP flight school.
Wonder the same .
I was winged in 1986 by the Army at Fort Rucker, big airlines were not interested in hiring Rotary Wing Pilots. My fellow Army Aviators with heavy RW time in the reserves with me, could only be hired by the Crap Box Regional Airlines. Some guys made only $12,500 per year, & guys at Mesa said was a good weight loss program. Regional's seemed to very competitive with the Army at abusing their Pilots. I witness to a lot of regional horror stories, my regular Army Troop CDR & XO had to take a day off to chill after hearing on how one of their buddies was treated at a bankrupt regional. The Army paid better than a regional but with a whole different kind of suck. But most of your Army Aviation career is deployed in a tent with broke dick aircraft, Crappy base housing, stupid non-flying additional duties, Crappy assignments supposedly to help your career, Commanders trying to kill you, Major Command decisions by Non-Pilot Generals . Aviation Warrant Officers will always be assigned at Company/Troop level and Commissioned Officer pilots will barely fly and serve in miserable staff job's hoping for a command. I went back college and got degree, and went corporate & hated it, got married to beautiful women and we own a business, retired from USAR and never got called up for the Gulf wars. I remember after 9/11 when major airline pilots took major pay cuts and had very unhappy wives who disliked lifestyle changes. I was in MAG-41 at NAS Dallas TX, before the transferring to the Army for flight school when Braniff folded, My old USMCR Squadron CDR was out job as SR. Capt at Braniff. He was lucky at his age to be hired by Piedmont stating at the bottom. My advice for flight training get the military to pay for it & do not take student loans.
I always used to fly spontaneously at Page field when 31 was opened up. It was just a straight shot in 2 min to take off. Taxiing all the way down 5 got old after a while. I totally feel you when you talk about time, money certainly adds up. For sure.
So is it worth going to ATP or taking your time and doing it at an airport?
Thanks for these super helpful videos.
Wells Fargo and Sallie Mae declined me. So I am thinking to gets ppl and then transfer to ATP that way I can afford to pay the other $58,995. I stay in Atlanta do you any schools who provide ppl for cheap. The least they are charging is $11000 for ppl
I want something cheaper than that
I live in Atlanta too. Please reach out if you find any useful information.
I am just gonna apply again with a cosigner or apply half with sallie mae and half amount with wells fargo
@@atlantisautosales3172 any update 1 year later. i'm basically in same situation currently.
I know for students it eats up money but as an instructor I probably made most of my hours out of RDU flying to Johnston, Sanford, and henderson oxford lol
f3nd13y Don’t forget Person County and Kinston ;). I’ll feel the same way as soon as I’m an instructor. Also, I’m much faster and depends if you get to leave off of 23L. Thanks for giving me a shout!
Juliet Alpha 8 all day. I now fly jets out of the Hangars off the end of 23L and sometimes that taxi to 5L gives a nice break to setup everything.
And when you become a ATP/Commercial pilot you will be flying in and out of class B and C airports so you might as well get efficient at proficient at B and C operations. Pay now, pay later...
Does anyone know what happened to Ed Creed?
I agree man find the right school and location time is money. The way I look at is if one was to go to this school back in 2008 when we had the recession I would say no but do to the fact that the airlines are paying big money and upgrade time zooming. My professor who was a professional corporate pilot for 30 years and worked heavily on the management side with flight safety told us it’s worth every penny when you go for this career. All the big pilots from United and other companies tell me the same info it’s the best time to become a pilot the money is their and the jobs are growing due to the mass retirements. Anyways great video and keep up the good work. I’m going to Morristown New Jersey ATP flight school
tyler atkinson Yes, it’s totally the best time to be a pilot. I’m grateful to be here and it’s all about timing. Good luck to you and your new journey. Thanks for watch.
tyler atkinson I fly from KCDW, we should meet sometime
Are you working as a pilot now? just curious on an update
You can do pattern work in class c did my private in a class c its not a problem. If anything its good to practice with airliners in the airspace.
This is so helpful thank you
Love the videos! I’m headed to ATP in Daytona Beach in August. I appreciate the honesty and the reality of what you’re going through. How has your experience been thus far in the learning aspect? What’s your average study time daily? Do you feel that you are retaining the information?
Skylar Schofield Yes, it’s been a wild ride so far. It’s a ton of information all at once. I could honestly study more then I do. I have my TOL EVAL Monday. I’ve had the most issues with landing and crosswind landings. Today, I’m heading up for some soft field and short field tol’s. Just get the written stuff out of the way ASAP. I have heard DB is a great location. Good luck to you. Thanks for watching.
Planning to start with ATP on October .!
Great video Ed! Thank you.
This was very confusing lol… Does it cost more money or just take more time? I thought the 85k included everything?!
Good videos bro keep them up. How do you prepare for the oral exam?
Jacob Rothschild we have an oral exam book, plus’s we have some “know it all” handouts that help us study for the check ride and oral exam. Thanks for subscribing and watching.
Ed Creed - Base2Final what is ground school like? Is it all online ? Class room setting? One on one. I’m looking at the Morristown location and debating. By this time you should have a job as a pilot. How was the placement ? Did you Land a good career.
Please do I need a green card before I can be offered ATP programs as an international student?
*great, well made video. Very through. I got my PPL for $5K, part 61. And this video makes me feel better because I don't have money to attend ATP, but everybody I know (a lot of pilot friends) are going there. I feel better not being able to go now*
By chance do you know what class Jacksonville fl or Orlando fl is?
Jacksonville is class C. Orlando International is class B.
After watching this video I'm a little concerned about the location I picked, Arlington Municipal (KGKY). Anyone has any experience flying around that airport or do you know if their is a designated practice area? Thanks!
I heat ATP FLIGHT SCHOOL DO NOT WAIST YOU’r money and time .
if you could go back would you choose ATP again?
KLTpumba Absolutely, this is a great program. They set you up from the start to be a professional pilot. It’s fast pace, but you are trained to be professional from the start. You will see real quick the difference between this training and a mom and pop training. All in all it’s worth it. Thanks for watching.
Excellent question
@@EdCreed do they guarantee u a job after the 1500h rs with american airlines ? is that true after 5 yrs
@@mbekka1 do you know anything about a guarantee job?
Yay, I found someone who started new! I am actually planning to start in ATP program in a few months. Are you on your progress on getting the private pilot license or something else?
Lol Nodochi Hi There .. So, I’m still in my PPL stage. I’m supposed to solo on 4/10. I’m a bit behind schedule:due to weather. I’ve had me good days and bad., but just keep chugging along. Thanks for watching.
Nodo so how was atp is it worth it I’m planning on starting after I’m done w college any advice before starting ?
Nodo so do u think it’s worth it and they know what they are doing
Same
thank god for the GI bill
twostrokes4life what’s the best way to go about using the GI bill for flight training. Been doing some research and it is so confusing.
@@phxkid13 it's been confusing because VA made it difficult specifically for flight training. I myself went to 2 local flight schools here in New York. Just checked.
@@neil3858 It seems like every place that takes the GI bill will take closer to 2 years to finish.
So this dude is an instructor and he doesn’t know that class D reverts to class echo….. freaky
Clark County Airport, IN ATP has one there it's class G.
Is Ed an atp instructor? Student?
The ATP school near me is in Cincinnati, Ohio and that is class B airspace LOL.
My son is gradating from high school and wants to be a pilot should he do a few years of college first at least an Assoc. degree? Or can he start right out of high school? Also we live in Dallas would be best for him to choose a different location? He can live at home and go to school , or would it be cheaper in the long run to go to a smaller city?
Kellye Raiborn Great questions. Currently, we have two 18 y/o’s. One of them will be finishing up in the next two months. After that he is going back to collage and finishing his degree. What he told me was, by going to ATP, it saves him 4 years of waiting to get all his certifications. If his goal is to fly for the airlines, my opinion would be go the ATP route. That way if he chooses to finish his degree, he can work as a CFI and get his 1500 hrs at the same time. As far as Dallas.. I’m a big fan! I toured the Addison ATP facility a few years ago and loved it. I moved to Raleigh, so came here. Dallas is a great place. Hope that helps. Good luck and all the best to your son. Thanks for watching.
ATP just recently changed their policies for students. In order to start now, they say you need at least 2 years of experience in a professional work setting. That being college, or work. That way someone who is 40 isn’t being instructed by someone fresh out of high school and they know the person has proven some amount of dedication and work so they don’t wash out.
freezedried94 Thank you I appreciate the information.
freezedried94 Yep, it’s a good policy I think.
Kellye Raiborn is recommend getting at least an associates degree, many regionals do still require it and you have to remember you also have to be 21 to get your atp to work for the regionals so no big rush to sit around with the time but not the age. Having an associates also puts you that much closer to a bachelors which in the future your son may want to get into some of the major carriers like delta and United etc
Hi Ed, thanks for the videos. I'm considering starting ATP this coming year, but am unsure of how to select a location. What kinds of things should I consider when choosing where to attend ATP? Also, how difficult is it to become an instructor within the program? Thanks!
i had this question and i am assuming u have went through the program and finished it so do u mind telling me how it was
@@xxxkingahmed1375 Hi, I ended up deciding on a different flight program. I completed school at Aeroguard Flight Training Center in Phoenix, AZ. I know they also have locations in California, Texas, and Florida. It was an awesome and cost- effective program for getting your Commercial- Multi and CFI/ CFII and MEI ratings.
holy crap! did you not watch the vid? what a stupid question. one can only hope you did NOT attempt to become a pilot.
30 miles south of DAL has Class G
Hello Ed can a foreigner study at ATP?
Thank you
Wow. I’m surprised how expensive the base prices for the ratings are in the US. Here in Canada PPL, CPL, ME, and IFR are about $45 000 CDN base price or $60 000 CDN max. Not to mention the US dollar is worth much more here. It would only be $45 000 USD. CFI here is about $10 000 CDN ($7 500 USD) more.
Hey Ed, so I am looking to get back into flying and working towards getting an airline job here as my second career. I have a PPL and IR with about 400 hours with some multi time and level D 737-800 time. But, I need my multi, com, and FI so I can start flying full time as soon as possible and build hours. Ideally I would really like to build Multi time. Is ATP a good choice for a potential student such as myself?
TWA717 WOW, you are way ahead of me. Honestly, not sure about the requirements after PPL for ATP. Sounds like you have done a lot of work. I would just give them a call and ask what you can or can’t do. I don’t want to give you the wrong information. I just know most people come in with 0 time or their PPL and then get their IR from there. I appreciate you asking, but definitely give them a call. Thanks for watching!
Wilco Ed, Thanks and all the best with your flight training!
No way would ATP be good for you. Get a Comm, get a low end job doing something or buy ur own plane. Ur 737 counts less than zero at this point.
So is it always a 9 month program or does it vary depending on how ur doing?? Is it easy to kinda get left behind because it's so fast paced?? What happens if u can't complete it in 9 months? Will they flunk u out? Or will it just add to your loan $?
Grant Moore So, the program is set up with “milestones” you have so many hrs to figure some things out to move on to the next block. If for any reason, you don’t do well, you will have to add on to your hrs.. and yes, that comes out of your loan. The program is set up for nine months; however, you move at a quick pace, so you can usually expect 6 to 7 months depending on aircraft availability and weather. Each person is different, so if you pick up things quickly, you can move ahead faster. Hope that helps. Thanks for watching!
Ed Creed Thanks alot. It is certainly gonna be beneficial to prepare myself. I'm considering getting my ppl before I enroll in atp.. Thanks for all the tips!
Grant Moore
I came in with my PPL. It’s a pretty good idea to do that cuz you establish great knowledge. There’s so much to know about aviation. If I can do ATP all over again I would finish all the written tests and know more than an average private pilot. By the way when you sign up they give you the gear and apps to do your written tests. If you keep your receipts you will get refunded or you can take the tests at your local Atp.
PilotCrissy Really? How many written tests r there? How long do u have from the time u enroll & receive that gear, until u go to attend?
Grant Moore
Not exactly sure how far in advance but give ATP a call. I met someone who didn’t start till 6 months. He got most of the writtens done. There’s 6 written test. Remember to take the CFII and instrument at the same time cuz it’s the same test. Also as Ed mentioned on the video be careful with location. Some are better than others. Keep in mind the difficulty of the examiners too. Wish I did that so it wouldn’t be as stressful. The examiners at my location are pretty tough.
I started in 2006 and probably spent 30 grand to get too CFI and multi engine commercial total ! Times have changed
This video was the biggest waste of my time and money I've ever spent
Watched the other from May, 2018. I see why you failed a checkride. You talk like a 4 year old with no point to make. If you fly the same way you try to explain things... sheesh
What if it takes you longer than 10 hours to master your landings?
Thanks for exposing ATP a little
Thanks for the info. Im getting ready to start training at ATP. How many days a week is a typical student training and how many days is ground school? Is there uniform requirments?
Hey there.. so, this is self study. It’s entirely up to you on how much you study. You will have ground, but not every day. You will most likely fly every day or every other day. Depending on weather you can fly a lot. Thanks for your question.
I like it
Hi Ed, I'm looking to start my training at ATP in Concord NC, because I live in Concord. I already have my PPL but I got that back in 2002 and really haven't flown since then. I was looking to build time before starting the IR at ATP. Will they let me build any kind of time or familiarize me with flying again before jumping into the IR. I'm asking because the ATP tuition cost a lot more than other flight schools so do they let you fly without charging for hours? I do realize it's fast pace and self study, so I'm thinking that I will need to fly a few times through another flight school before doing the ATP program. Also not sure if you know anything about the ATP Concord site, but since you are in Raleigh I thought I would ask your opinion about training there. Do you know if I will get a lot of flight time? And is it a good place to train? Any informative will be helpful! Thanks for the videos they are very informative! All the best in your new career!
Hi Rob, i was in the same boat with only having my private, I got all the way through instrument and commercial for about 25000$ at a local FBO at home. Be wary about signing a prepaid flight training agreement. With just my private pilot ATP wanted 56000 up front. Find a local school that has good reviews and start going by the ratings one by one. I was able to do this with minimal debt addition while still working.
How many hours do you need to fly prior your IR training?
@@mohdridzuan6894 i started instrument training at 35 hours
@@DL272 great :) appreciate your video.
Rob don't waste your time if your over 42. Airlines are hungry for the 21 to 26 yr olds.
Do not waste your money with ATP! Trust me
can i ask you what happened?
This fellow forget a comment!!!....Where is the instructor that like to milk the clock to make some $$$.!!!!!
Compton airport
Thx for sharing ur experience
Oh no ... ATP is just an excellent flight school........highly respected........(cough-cough........spits)
Michael Smithe now....now. Do we have some PTSD to talk about?
Overpriced waist of money
Could be? ATP is a waste of money. Was there in 2014. If they don't like you, they will do everything in their power to force you to wash out. I'm fairly sure they also blacklist you with their clique of partner airlines as well.
ATP is all about money! They are bar far one of the worse flight schools out there! Trust me!
can i ask you what happened?
Way overpriced pilot mill, oh and that Pilot shortage, totally fake.
Flying Club. Flying Club.
Contender for the worst sales pitch ever...
Military Flying Club
I got all of my ratings at 40k. Most of these schools are rip offs. All of my training was done in class D airspace with a lot of Class B
chris hawkins how long ago was this? Did you do part 61 or 141? I'm trying to get my ratings without taking massive loans.
Where did you got your training done?
When you say "all your ratings", what does that mean? To me that would mean IR, COM ASEL, COM AMEL, CFI-A, CFI-I, and MEI. And having shopped around a lot, I highly doubt that. I got my IR, COM ASEL, and COM AMEL for about $65,000 as part of a college associates degree program
I doubt that. It at least takes 50K. Cheapest I’ve seen with 152s.
@@tommy35ss I got all these ratings for a grand total or $800.00. Yes $800.00. Airline Transport Pilot - Airplane Multiengine Land with ATR-42; ATR-72; B-727; EMB-145; L-382; L-1329; N-265 type ratings. Also Flight Instructor Airplane Single and Multiengine ; Instrument Airplane. Plus Remote Pilot certificate. The $800.00 breakdown was $600.00 for Private Pilot and $200.00 for Flight Instructor Airplane Single Engine Land. Everything else no cost to me. Cheers.
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Join the military. You get paid to have fun and hours having fun
Does anyone know what happened to Ed Creed?