Not going to lie, I was eye balling this school a bit as a possible plan to achieve my goal the fastest way possible, By god blessing for me Im not too pressured and I'm able too interact with other people and able to check online to help with my decision making. The Part where you have to give up your jobs to take a leap of faith to go into debt isn't a good selling point unless I get a grantee that I will have a way to pay off that loan, thank you for giving me of a insight your a really big help too anyone trying to jump into this career path.
The biggest reason I chose not to go to ATP was because of how they are known to rush people into checkrides, and the fast pace it moves. I’m doing part 61, and it’s way cheaper as well. I just got my PPL this week, in a little over a year or flying, but I felt well prepared, and there weren’t any surprises on the checkride. I sometimes regret not doing ATP or another pilot mill, because of slow my training is compared to their 7-12 month timelines, but I think I made the right decision overall.
That’s one of the biggest misconceptions about ATP. It’s a 61 program. It’s how they’re able to finish people so quickly (I finished in less than 6 months). But yes, you are right with them rushing people. The program isn’t for everyone.
@@Monkeyflyer It’s a part 61, but they also have a very strict timeline to get each rating, no? And people who can’t keep up with their fast pace are checked out of the program, right? I’d imagine that plenty of people who are great pilots, but for one or the other reason need more time on a rating, end up getting the boot and lose all of the money they sunk into the program.
@@videogameplayer0552 The program has changed over the years that it has been around. At one time, they gave people tons of extra chances and at another (like I’m sure it is now) they hardly give people any. There’s tons of gotchas in the program - this video is a great resource for anyone looking into it.
I know 2 guys right now that finished the school a couple months ago. They did not go to cfi school and still have over 110k each in debt. and still need hundreds of hours before getting any type of job. I really think that school is a complete scam for what you get. I own a plane and about to start leasing it to just ATP people needing to build hours.
I got my private from a local CFI. I have logged about 170 hours total. I just went on an admissions flight with a CFII at ATP with 800 TT. I learned more in 1.0 hrs than my last instructor could've taught in 5. The guy was SHARP. The program may suck, but their CFII left me nothing but impressed, so I'd disagree that they don't teach you how to fly.
I quit instructing for them 2 years ago. They were firing my fellow instructors for the most minuscule reasons. I left before giving them the chance to. This was happening as a student AND instructor at different locations.
Another flight school taking someone for their money! Shocker! Fair play dude. Very honest review, and like some of the other comments eluded to, this should be made viral so that others don’t end up forking out a huge payment only to be told they “don’t cut the mustard”. In a way, this the main reason I’m so glad I went modular. Didn’t have some school telling me you need to do x y and z. Did it on my own steam and tbh I basically made myself available 24hrs a day so that I could get everything finished. To those contemplating the step into this industry, don’t let some school with a nice presentation and the “our students work for…..” fool you. Blue skies to you buddy and hope the job search is going well/youre enjoying life on the flight deck full time! ✈️✈️✈️
ATP is a scam, there is also a lawsuit against them concerning their CFI's being 1099 (contract) but treating them like they are W2. I have all of my ratings too as well all 7 and I went to a 141 school and did them in 6 months (got my private 10 years ago). I was warned about ATP and glad that I listen. I am also retired military and have an aviation background so I did my research. If anyone wants some info on school I would recommend just let me know and they are 141 schools.
Biggest reason I didn’t go there was because of how they are known to throw people in to checkrides who aren’t ready. I’m working on my instrument right now, part 61, and it’s way cheaper and I feel like I actually learn better at own pace.
@@videogameplayer0552 You are exactly right, many of these schools will sign you off just for you to fail afterwards which costs you money for the DPE. Take your time and try to pass the first time.
I’m currently active and starting flight training on the civilian side. ATP takes the GI bill as long as you have your PPL and some other things but any other route I’m out of pocket, still don’t know which way I should go
@@erikfabianmendoza Blue Line Aviation, they have a location in Florida and one in North Carolina. I went to the North Carolina one and did my CFI at the Florida location.
I kind of agree.... but they tell you that up front. (Supplies, Tests and Check rides are extra) The supplies could be included.... but checkrides are paid to a DPE directly. And the testing centers are independent. Even if there is a PSI center at the ATP school.... you pay online when you book it. (FAA-PSI)
It was $69.9k when I went in 2018. Just had to pay for the checkrides on top. Finished in 8 months. Had a good experience with a good group of like minded others. We all studied and worked hard. Didn’t instruct for ATP tho took another better opportunity that opened up. Fly in the legacies today. It’s how you make it. Best of luck, cheers!
I’ve always heard knocking out all your written exams before going to ATP is the way to go then literally only gotta worry about flying and check rides
What he isn’t telling you is that DPE’s love these flight schools, they know they can be a pilot mill which means more money in the DPE’s pocket, they will over charge you and then fail you and pocket the money it’s extremely sad
Yep. Failed Instrument twice because of bullshit stuff that everyone was like "wtf? why wasn't that just a debrief item?" I got charged $1,100 for the retest. Best part? The DPE failed me over my cross country planning. Why? Because when coming from the SW of the airport, he asked me which runway I should expect. I saw RWY 22 because winds were out of 240@8kts. He failed me because he said I should expect to get RWY 04 because we're coming from that direction and it "doesn't make sense to fly over the airport, out 24 miles to start the approach" as if we should just completely ignore what other traffic is doing and disregard all considerations. DPEs are downright fucking predatory if you are part of these schools.
That’s not specific to ATP, that’s life in general, nothing is guaranteed. Everything has a risk and a reward. The individual makes the decision based on their life circumstances….
Current ATP student here in my instrument stage. I came in credit private from a local school. Due to weather delays, 3 CFI being pulled by the airlines and lack of DPEs it took me a year and half to get my PPL. I’m 3 weeks in and have my Instrument Checkride next week…the program moves fast and yes if you can’t keep up you do run the risk of getting the boot so it’s def not for everyone. I’m 37 so I can’t afford to take my time with the training. Plus I don’t have the upfront capital needed to get my certs in a local school. That is why ATP made sense for me. One thing that is deff worth the cost of ATP is if you are able to get into a cadet program. That unfortunately ties you to teaching at ATP or other participating flight schools (the list of which is very exclusive).
I think its wild that ATP uses fear & exploitative financial tactics to motivate their students, how is that supposed to create a positive learning environment for people coming to learn at their best?
Like atp/blue line or any accelerated flight school program, they can drop you if you don’t keep up the pace. The problem is you still owe the money even if they bump you out. Crazy money that will take years to pay off or recoup. Dopey.
I did all of my ratings at a public university part 141 on the west coast (not going to say who). It took me 5 years from zero hours to CFI (it didn't help that the pandemic slowed me down about a year and a half). While I did spend a lot more I felt like I got my money's worth and it was good quality, as I often work with other instructors at my flight school who did everything either part 61 or non-university part 141, they weren't able to deep dive into topics as much as my classes did. I also have R-ATP and can't imagine having to instruct for 3+ years before getting the hours needed. I'm only about 19 months instructing and have a foot out the door. I bet if you just see becoming a pilot as just required job training and just in it for the money, only caring about the ratings and certs you have, ATP sounds like a good proposition. But if you really have a passion for flying and enjoy the process (despite the highest of highs and lowest of lows) go to a local flight school or university program instead. You won't be seen as another number and will actually enjoy the process of learning to fly.
My son went to a different “pilot factory” and his experience was very similar. I don’t know any of his friends who have a lot of positive to say about the place, other than they are very good pilots. All were sucked in by the sales pitch and brand new planes. Then got there and had delays and other issues. He is about to get his CFI but is no longer there
Now that the hiring pipeline has narrowed, and airlines are furloughing, there's really no justification for rushing your education via a Part 141. Take your time and control more of your learning/spend.
I went to a part 141 school in 2021 cost me $87,000 at a very very very fast pace no days off I can say part 61 is a way better route join a club or a flight school way cheaper and you’ll pay it off as go.
I left in April of 23, they wouldn’t give me a ride for 3 months for my private multi ride. I never ended up finishing cfi because I got a job at American patrols I’m averaging 120hrs a month rn
Currently and Instrument student at ATP. I'm probably not gonna make it the whole way. Too much anxiety about finishing up everything and didnt get approved for alot. So probably gonna end after getting my commerical rating. I just dont have enough.
Damn that's tough, private + instrument is the majority of the money for the program tho so id say power thru if you can. At least get done with crew phase, commercial, and CFI if you can cause then you can defer the rest and go start working somewhere else
Btw ..im in part 61 school right now and made friends with everyone there, pilots, CFIs, managers, mechanics. Real tight nit community. Dont knock it till you have done it
Could you make a video on what you would do if you were starting again from zero? There are a lot of paths and it seems hard to make the right decision; lots of promises but when you look into it there are lots of cons as well it seems
Sounds like it’s worse than Lift, which is saying something. Paid 82K which includes the equipment, first checkride attempt’s, and applications. Seems like ATP is slightly faster if you can survive it.
I wish there were videos like this when I went thru Atp. I went thru Atp as well, but going over some hrs.& if you bust a ck ride by having a goofball DE can change everything. Sadly, I was sent back home after a bust in Florida & they Never said anything to me, but asked for 1000's more to continue...smh
@@AviationAlertss it was the instructor i believe. i honestly dont know, he just never scheduled me more than 2 times a week. most of the time i flew once a week, even though i told him i was full time student
10 months part 61 is kind of normal. but based on your other comment..... you need to book your own flights if you want to fly every day. (or as weather permits) if you would do part 141, it will generally go faster.
My part 61 instructor is also a DPE. He fails ATP students left and right because he tests their true understanding of flight knowledge and maneuvers, and many of the ATP students just come up a little short because they are all learning from instructors that only have a few hundred hours themselves. I much prefer learning from an instructor that has thousands of hours of experience teaching students and as a corporate pilot, not an instructor just using you to build their own hours to go to airlines.
I looked at atp quite a few years ago, at the time they were charging 56k for their program. At the time I couldn't even afford that so let it go. I've been planning a career switch, and hey let's get all the info again. Yeah I choked when I saw 110k. No thanks!
It is really helpful~ . I have a question. Is check ride something that an average student should be worried about? I heard that ATP forces unprepared students to check ride. That's why I heard that the failure rate is high.
To all the people saying that they throw you into a checkride before you are ready…this is not true. I just went through a 4 hour mock oral and 3 hour mock checkride so they can find my weaknesses and work on them so it becomes virtually impossible to fail a checkride. Currently going through retraining for the items I missed and it is all included in the price they advertise
To your point on getting kicked out. ATP is a "Pilot Mill".... and if you don't keep up, you are gone. Right now... There is a student at my school who came from ATP. Since he was tied to SkyWest already, he had to come to a "Premiere" partner school. (We are) He was kicked out during CFI. Not sure why really because he seemed relitivally ready to take his check ride. I think he only went up a couple times with our instructors before taking his check ride. But now he's stayed to get CFII and his multi. (not sure if that was part of his original ATP price)
Find where the closest part 141 school is to you. It will still be an accelerated school.... but will be at a more relaxed pace. AND.... it's generally "Pay as you go" and not a set price. SO.... if you need more time.... they don't kick you out.... you just pay for the time needed.
what he said lol ^ especially cause usually those schools will set you up with a DPE right when your ready and it seems to be really tough to schedule check rides rn, some of my students have been wait like 6+ months
On the other of the spectrum, if you use LESS time than they promise, you’re not guaranteed that flight time. Back in 2016 with the 40 hour multi program, I finished with 38-something. They didn’t honor my full 40 hours.
Don’t get me wrong man, I think you have a valid point however; most people I know don’t have that money flexibility to pay as they go to any other school and to obtain those ratings you got in a year or so. I do agree with you in case you have the money already in your hands and ready to commit full time school, fast paced in any other school but money is still the biggest issue I found tbh. Beside that, plane availability, how many student other schools have, instructors, etc. It took my one full year to get my PPL due to plane availability, instructors, DPE shortages many many things … I have seen people graduating from ATP is as little as 6 months and I have seen like a year. All tbh depends on you as a student and for sure other factors including luck, either weather, good instructor etc ..
No... definitely get this guy wrong... it does not "tbh" depend on you. ATP obviously has the same staffing and scheduling problems now as they did 18 years ago. Dont listen to this tool.
Thanks so much. I've been trying to figure out whether I should look into a fast-track school or just go the traditional route of just going to my local airfield. I know I at least want to reach CFI, and my local airfield does offer stuff all the way up to CFI-I.
@@LordofDestruction123 yessir just realize it’ll take longer but if your determined and locked in you can do it in under 2 years and you’ll save a crazy amount 🤙
LIFT Academy needs to be another blacklisted. No one should go there. An absolute shit storm of a flight school and their policies are downright predatory.
This sounds like you had a terrible experience. Mine was nothing like this. Over priced? Longer timeline than 7 months? Absolutely. But I never paid anywhere near 2k for a checkride, never had a zoom call with a higher up after a checkride fail (com multi), also everyone in my region was in cfi immediately after com single engine.
Same here. Most I ever paid for a checkride was like $1200, failed CFI initial and never had to talk to any higher ups, and only had to wait a month and a half to start at my location.
Different locations have different procedures I guess mine was a very sought after location at Long Beach with a ton of people on the waitlist, that’s probably why they were quick to kick people out after 1 warning from the head of that region
I thought ATP was a scam after giving it a try, then I left and tried another smaller school and then I really learned what a flight school scam looked like in Conroe.
@@Cj-yv8rk I enjoyed getting my private at General aviation but that was 15 years ago. It was no thrills, no contract, pay as you go training and it did the job of getting me my private.
@@ZackFrisbee how much were you flying during the week, how many working planes did they have, did you instructor work full time or part time? Lot of variables, I completed my private in 3 months at a 61 school
@@TheChaos991230 Mine was in Colorado so I’m sure it has some weather caveats accordingly. Flew pretty regularly during the week, never had any super large lulls in between flights (except for CFI). Plane availability and reliability is pretty solid. All of my instructors I had were full time and pretty attentive except for the CFI ones. Overall not too bad.
@@AviationAlertss although Iv seen a lot of negative things come out of ATP and part 141 schools like it, I believe the quickness of the program is worth it. As long as you are quite prepared for what you are signing up for
@@AviationAlertss I’m glad you mentioned just going for a some kinda job straight out of school and not to wait for a cfi spot, I’m planning on just going somewhere else to work
@@tgeefilms2747 14 CFR § 61.160: A person may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate concurrently with a multiengine airplane type rating if the person has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot, 200 hours of cross-country flight time, and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159.
Get a haircut. Maybe the cost increase is because of government cause inflation? Have you bought gas for a car? Food? And if you can’t do the tasks to standard, then you have to practice more. And that costs more. Geez…way too much whining.
Inflation ain’t from government, it’s from monopoly. In the case of ATP, once they hook you, they’ve got a hold on you from which they can take advantage… oops, I mean “capitalize.”
This video needs to go viral… this will help so many people
Not going to lie, I was eye balling this school a bit as a possible plan to achieve my goal the fastest way possible, By god blessing for me Im not too pressured and I'm able too interact with other people and able to check online to help with my decision making. The Part where you have to give up your jobs to take a leap of faith to go into debt isn't a good selling point unless I get a grantee that I will have a way to pay off that loan, thank you for giving me of a insight your a really big help too anyone trying to jump into this career path.
The biggest reason I chose not to go to ATP was because of how they are known to rush people into checkrides, and the fast pace it moves. I’m doing part 61, and it’s way cheaper as well. I just got my PPL this week, in a little over a year or flying, but I felt well prepared, and there weren’t any surprises on the checkride. I sometimes regret not doing ATP or another pilot mill, because of slow my training is compared to their 7-12 month timelines, but I think I made the right decision overall.
That’s one of the biggest misconceptions about ATP. It’s a 61 program. It’s how they’re able to finish people so quickly (I finished in less than 6 months). But yes, you are right with them rushing people. The program isn’t for everyone.
@@Monkeyflyer It’s a part 61, but they also have a very strict timeline to get each rating, no? And people who can’t keep up with their fast pace are checked out of the program, right? I’d imagine that plenty of people who are great pilots, but for one or the other reason need more time on a rating, end up getting the boot and lose all of the money they sunk into the program.
@@videogameplayer0552 The program has changed over the years that it has been around. At one time, they gave people tons of extra chances and at another (like I’m sure it is now) they hardly give people any. There’s tons of gotchas in the program - this video is a great resource for anyone looking into it.
@@Monkeyflyerdid you start ATP with a PPL?
@@branchbutler8356 Yes. It's the only way I'd recommend ATP to someone.
I know 2 guys right now that finished the school a couple months ago. They did not go to cfi school and still have over 110k each in debt. and still need hundreds of hours before getting any type of job. I really think that school is a complete scam for what you get. I own a plane and about to start leasing it to just ATP people needing to build hours.
Yep sounds familiar
Where are you located man. You only get 250 flight hours with atp..
Just like a truck driving school. They teach you how to pass the tests but now how to drive.
100% this. And then when you get into the real world, you're blindsided. Everyone operates just fine in their little bubble, but that's it.
I got my private from a local CFI. I have logged about 170 hours total. I just went on an admissions flight with a CFII at ATP with 800 TT. I learned more in 1.0 hrs than my last instructor could've taught in 5. The guy was SHARP. The program may suck, but their CFII left me nothing but impressed, so I'd disagree that they don't teach you how to fly.
I quit instructing for them 2 years ago. They were firing my fellow instructors for the most minuscule reasons. I left before giving them the chance to. This was happening as a student AND instructor at different locations.
Another flight school taking someone for their money! Shocker! Fair play dude. Very honest review, and like some of the other comments eluded to, this should be made viral so that others don’t end up forking out a huge payment only to be told they “don’t cut the mustard”. In a way, this the main reason I’m so glad I went modular. Didn’t have some school telling me you need to do x y and z. Did it on my own steam and tbh I basically made myself available 24hrs a day so that I could get everything finished. To those contemplating the step into this industry, don’t let some school with a nice presentation and the “our students work for…..” fool you. Blue skies to you buddy and hope the job search is going well/youre enjoying life on the flight deck full time! ✈️✈️✈️
Really appreciate this message man I hope to cya up there one day 😁
ATP is a scam, there is also a lawsuit against them concerning their CFI's being 1099 (contract) but treating them like they are W2. I have all of my ratings too as well all 7 and I went to a 141 school and did them in 6 months (got my private 10 years ago). I was warned about ATP and glad that I listen. I am also retired military and have an aviation background so I did my research. If anyone wants some info on school I would recommend just let me know and they are 141 schools.
I’m thinking quitting my job and join ATP here in Austin, what other alternatives would you recommend?
Biggest reason I didn’t go there was because of how they are known to throw people in to checkrides who aren’t ready. I’m working on my instrument right now, part 61, and it’s way cheaper and I feel like I actually learn better at own pace.
@@videogameplayer0552 You are exactly right, many of these schools will sign you off just for you to fail afterwards which costs you money for the DPE. Take your time and try to pass the first time.
I’m currently active and starting flight training on the civilian side. ATP takes the GI bill as long as you have your PPL and some other things but any other route I’m out of pocket, still don’t know which way I should go
@@erikfabianmendoza Blue Line Aviation, they have a location in Florida and one in North Carolina. I went to the North Carolina one and did my CFI at the Florida location.
Bruh 110k you shouldn't have to for nothing extra that's crazy af
I kind of agree.... but they tell you that up front. (Supplies, Tests and Check rides are extra) The supplies could be included.... but checkrides are paid to a DPE directly. And the testing centers are independent. Even if there is a PSI center at the ATP school.... you pay online when you book it. (FAA-PSI)
It was $69.9k when I went in 2018. Just had to pay for the checkrides on top. Finished in 8 months. Had a good experience with a good group of like minded others. We all studied and worked hard. Didn’t instruct for ATP tho took another better opportunity that opened up. Fly in the legacies today. It’s how you make it. Best of luck, cheers!
I’ve always heard knocking out all your written exams before going to ATP is the way to go then literally only gotta worry about flying and check rides
And go in with your private license.
@@Ahsgsuas ya that too
What he isn’t telling you is that DPE’s love these flight schools, they know they can be a pilot mill which means more money in the DPE’s pocket, they will over charge you and then fail you and pocket the money it’s extremely sad
Yep. Failed Instrument twice because of bullshit stuff that everyone was like "wtf? why wasn't that just a debrief item?" I got charged $1,100 for the retest.
Best part? The DPE failed me over my cross country planning. Why? Because when coming from the SW of the airport, he asked me which runway I should expect. I saw RWY 22 because winds were out of 240@8kts. He failed me because he said I should expect to get RWY 04 because we're coming from that direction and it "doesn't make sense to fly over the airport, out 24 miles to start the approach" as if we should just completely ignore what other traffic is doing and disregard all considerations.
DPEs are downright fucking predatory if you are part of these schools.
Also every one keep in mind you are not guaranteed ever getting a 6 figure airline job. So you are going into 100k plus debt on a maybe career.
Hence why I went from finishing my commercial multi at ATP to working in the healthcare industry after getting bounced during the CFI phase.
That’s not specific to ATP, that’s life in general, nothing is guaranteed. Everything has a risk and a reward. The individual makes the decision based on their life circumstances….
Current ATP student here in my instrument stage. I came in credit private from a local school. Due to weather delays, 3 CFI being pulled by the airlines and lack of DPEs it took me a year and half to get my PPL. I’m 3 weeks in and have my Instrument Checkride next week…the program moves fast and yes if you can’t keep up you do run the risk of getting the boot so it’s def not for everyone. I’m 37 so I can’t afford to take my time with the training. Plus I don’t have the upfront capital needed to get my certs in a local school. That is why ATP made sense for me. One thing that is deff worth the cost of ATP is if you are able to get into a cadet program. That unfortunately ties you to teaching at ATP or other participating flight schools (the list of which is very exclusive).
Wow private in a 1.5 years to instrument in 4 weeks is crazy, glad your rolling thru quickly now 💯
I think its wild that ATP uses fear & exploitative financial tactics to motivate their students, how is that supposed to create a positive learning environment for people coming to learn at their best?
Like atp/blue line or any accelerated flight school program, they can drop you if you don’t keep up the pace. The problem is you still owe the money even if they bump you out. Crazy money that will take years to pay off or recoup. Dopey.
I did all of my ratings at a public university part 141 on the west coast (not going to say who). It took me 5 years from zero hours to CFI (it didn't help that the pandemic slowed me down about a year and a half). While I did spend a lot more I felt like I got my money's worth and it was good quality, as I often work with other instructors at my flight school who did everything either part 61 or non-university part 141, they weren't able to deep dive into topics as much as my classes did. I also have R-ATP and can't imagine having to instruct for 3+ years before getting the hours needed. I'm only about 19 months instructing and have a foot out the door.
I bet if you just see becoming a pilot as just required job training and just in it for the money, only caring about the ratings and certs you have, ATP sounds like a good proposition. But if you really have a passion for flying and enjoy the process (despite the highest of highs and lowest of lows) go to a local flight school or university program instead. You won't be seen as another number and will actually enjoy the process of learning to fly.
My son went to a different “pilot factory” and his experience was very similar. I don’t know any of his friends who have a lot of positive to say about the place, other than they are very good pilots. All were sucked in by the sales pitch and brand new planes. Then got there and had delays and other issues. He is about to get his CFI but is no longer there
11.8%!! You got shafted! Better get that refinanced.
I tried but its not a student loan so I haven't found a place that is willing to refinance sadly
I've talked to someone that got a 15% rate. tried to talk him out of it but he didn't care.
I did both I’d say get ur private somewhere else and take ur time then go to ATP if u need the financing
Now that the hiring pipeline has narrowed, and airlines are furloughing, there's really no justification for rushing your education via a Part 141. Take your time and control more of your learning/spend.
I went to a part 141 school in 2021 cost me $87,000 at a very very very fast pace no days off I can say part 61 is a way better route join a club or a flight school way cheaper and you’ll pay it off as go.
I was able to get a DPE within a month at a small 141, for CFI and 3 months for CFII
Love you video!
Thanks for honest explanation.
As someone who is commercially rated and in an aviation college, it's definitely slower, and I think the best way to go is part 61 at a smaller school
I left in April of 23, they wouldn’t give me a ride for 3 months for my private multi ride. I never ended up finishing cfi because I got a job at American patrols I’m averaging 120hrs a month rn
Currently and Instrument student at ATP. I'm probably not gonna make it the whole way. Too much anxiety about finishing up everything and didnt get approved for alot. So probably gonna end after getting my commerical rating. I just dont have enough.
Damn that's tough, private + instrument is the majority of the money for the program tho so id say power thru if you can. At least get done with crew phase, commercial, and CFI if you can cause then you can defer the rest and go start working somewhere else
Btw ..im in part 61 school right now and made friends with everyone there, pilots, CFIs, managers, mechanics. Real tight nit community. Dont knock it till you have done it
Could you make a video on what you would do if you were starting again from zero? There are a lot of paths and it seems hard to make the right decision; lots of promises but when you look into it there are lots of cons as well it seems
Thanks for the video idea just posted it 😁
Holy shit, I went through ATP 2005-2006 and it somehow managed to get worse!
Sounds like it’s worse than Lift, which is saying something. Paid 82K which includes the equipment, first checkride attempt’s, and applications. Seems like ATP is slightly faster if you can survive it.
12% interest on a loan for flight school is absolutely insane! ATP is already expensive, and adding such a high interest rate feels like a scam.
I wish there were videos like this when I went thru Atp. I went thru Atp as well, but going over some hrs.& if you bust a ck ride by having a goofball DE can change everything. Sadly, I was sent back home after a bust in Florida & they Never said anything to me, but asked for 1000's more to continue...smh
Sorry to hear that... keep pushing forward tho and Im sure you'll get an awesome career in aviation one day
I am at 10 months and I still haven't gotten my PPL. my part 61 school sucks
Damn man is it the weather or the program 😬
What school? 10 months with ATP?
@@AviationAlertss it was the instructor i believe. i honestly dont know, he just never scheduled me more than 2 times a week. most of the time i flew once a week, even though i told him i was full time student
@@JadeP-ts2sc not ATP. just random part 61 school in DFW that gets most of their business from foreign students
10 months part 61 is kind of normal. but based on your other comment..... you need to book your own flights if you want to fly every day. (or as weather permits) if you would do part 141, it will generally go faster.
Thanks for uploading, very level headed review. Good luck with your career!
You as well! Thx
2k for CFI ride?? That’s wild and 1k for the other checkrides? Wooooof
How much is it in your area
450 and CFI and CFII 550
My part 61 instructor is also a DPE. He fails ATP students left and right because he tests their true understanding of flight knowledge and maneuvers, and many of the ATP students just come up a little short because they are all learning from instructors that only have a few hundred hours themselves. I much prefer learning from an instructor that has thousands of hours of experience teaching students and as a corporate pilot, not an instructor just using you to build their own hours to go to airlines.
I looked at atp quite a few years ago, at the time they were charging 56k for their program. At the time I couldn't even afford that so let it go. I've been planning a career switch, and hey let's get all the info again. Yeah I choked when I saw 110k. No thanks!
It is really helpful~ . I have a question. Is check ride something that an average student should be worried about? I heard that ATP forces unprepared students to check ride. That's why I heard that the failure rate is high.
To all the people saying that they throw you into a checkride before you are ready…this is not true. I just went through a 4 hour mock oral and 3 hour mock checkride so they can find my weaknesses and work on them so it becomes virtually impossible to fail a checkride. Currently going through retraining for the items I missed and it is all included in the price they advertise
That's mostly for the CFI phase I would say. If you aren't super social and a gladhander you are hosed in the CFI phase.
To your point on getting kicked out. ATP is a "Pilot Mill".... and if you don't keep up, you are gone. Right now... There is a student at my school who came from ATP. Since he was tied to SkyWest already, he had to come to a "Premiere" partner school. (We are) He was kicked out during CFI. Not sure why really because he seemed relitivally ready to take his check ride. I think he only went up a couple times with our instructors before taking his check ride. But now he's stayed to get CFII and his multi. (not sure if that was part of his original ATP price)
If you got a bad 2 year instructor in the CFI phase you were screwed. That's the reason for people falling out at the CFI phase.
What other route will you recommend for us younger folks then? What are some of the best, according to your knowledge (I just turned 20)
Find where the closest part 141 school is to you. It will still be an accelerated school.... but will be at a more relaxed pace. AND.... it's generally "Pay as you go" and not a set price. SO.... if you need more time.... they don't kick you out.... you just pay for the time needed.
what he said lol ^ especially cause usually those schools will set you up with a DPE right when your ready and it seems to be really tough to schedule check rides rn, some of my students have been wait like 6+ months
On the other of the spectrum, if you use LESS time than they promise, you’re not guaranteed that flight time. Back in 2016 with the 40 hour multi program, I finished with 38-something. They didn’t honor my full 40 hours.
Now it’s 30 hours of multi and I finished with 24, they’re still doing the same thing :/
@@AviationAlertss Aren’t they just wonderful…? Don’t overachieve is the lesson I’m getting from them lol.
Hey, question. Did you also go to college? Or you did ATP straight out of HS?
Right after high school
I see you took a checkride with Mark Boss? Are you able to provide a rundown of it?
Good thing I didn’t get accepted everything really do happen for a reason thanks for the video
Don’t get me wrong man, I think you have a valid point however; most people I know don’t have that money flexibility to pay as they go to any other school and to obtain those ratings you got in a year or so. I do agree with you in case you have the money already in your hands and ready to commit full time school, fast paced in any other school but money is still the biggest issue I found tbh. Beside that, plane availability, how many student other schools have, instructors, etc. It took my one full year to get my PPL due to plane availability, instructors, DPE shortages many many things … I have seen people graduating from ATP is as little as 6 months and I have seen like a year. All tbh depends on you as a student and for sure other factors including luck, either weather, good instructor etc ..
No... definitely get this guy wrong... it does not "tbh" depend on you. ATP obviously has the same staffing and scheduling problems now as they did 18 years ago. Dont listen to this tool.
You don’t have to be 23 to work at the airlines!! 21 is the minimum.
Your right I should have clarified for regular ATP
Realest talk right here!
What job were you able to get instead of waiting for a ATP CFI position?
I looked at all the local part 61 flight and found a great one at an airport right next to me
What’s the study material you used for preparing for instrument oral checkride?
ATP had a good check ride Q and A study guide which I mainly used, other than that the IFH and tons of YT videos
I waited 8 months to get CFI position at my location
Thanks so much. I've been trying to figure out whether I should look into a fast-track school or just go the traditional route of just going to my local airfield. I know I at least want to reach CFI, and my local airfield does offer stuff all the way up to CFI-I.
@@LordofDestruction123 yessir just realize it’ll take longer but if your determined and locked in you can do it in under 2 years and you’ll save a crazy amount 🤙
LIFT Academy needs to be another blacklisted. No one should go there. An absolute shit storm of a flight school and their policies are downright predatory.
This sounds like you had a terrible experience. Mine was nothing like this. Over priced? Longer timeline than 7 months? Absolutely. But I never paid anywhere near 2k for a checkride, never had a zoom call with a higher up after a checkride fail (com multi), also everyone in my region was in cfi immediately after com single engine.
Same here. Most I ever paid for a checkride was like $1200, failed CFI initial and never had to talk to any higher ups, and only had to wait a month and a half to start at my location.
Can we connect to understand your experience with Lift? My son was recently accepted for next summer. I am scared now.
Different locations have different procedures I guess mine was a very sought after location at Long Beach with a ton of people on the waitlist, that’s probably why they were quick to kick people out after 1 warning from the head of that region
So it not easy to get a contract with an airline after graduating ?
wish I had seen this before I started. 💀in my 3rd week rip
What was your total time once you finished the program?
@@masonaugustine6873 it was like 130 hours and only 24 multi hours I think your supposed to get 30
Also I had a friend who tried to join ATP but denied him because he had not soloed or got his PPL is ATP really that way?
Yeah they told me they wanted me to get my PPL first because of high applications
Which ATP did you attend?
@ KLGB
Should title this "Hair cut review....worth it?"
Thanks for this ❤
I thought ATP was a scam after giving it a try, then I left and tried another smaller school and then I really learned what a flight school scam looked like in Conroe.
All flight schools are kind of a scam at the end of the day 😂
Conroe Tx? I just started there😳
@ good luck!
Are there any good flights schools in Conroe tx?
@@Cj-yv8rk I enjoyed getting my private at General aviation but that was 15 years ago. It was no thrills, no contract, pay as you go training and it did the job of getting me my private.
Great Review!
61 schools won’t take 3 years to complete
Incredible irony of that statement lul I took 3 years for my private and went into ATP to complete the rest of my stuff fairly quickly.
@@ZackFrisbee how much were you flying during the week, how many working planes did they have, did you instructor work full time or part time? Lot of variables, I completed my private in 3 months at a 61 school
@@TheChaos991230 Mine was in Colorado so I’m sure it has some weather caveats accordingly. Flew pretty regularly during the week, never had any super large lulls in between flights (except for CFI). Plane availability and reliability is pretty solid. All of my instructors I had were full time and pretty attentive except for the CFI ones. Overall not too bad.
Hard to find anyone say anything good about ATP. Cant understand why they are so successfull as a bussines. Guess its for people who need financing.
Shout out to Mark Boss
So what kinda companies can you work for at 21?
Pretty much any job listed in 61.133 or chsrter companies or get your restricted ATP
@@AviationAlertss You can be an airline pilot at 21yo, just cant be captain until 23
The video ends at 8:35
Lmao yea they paid me to do the rest
@@AviationAlertsslol😂😂😂😂😂
Can you still get loans for just flight school not atp cuz atp is college right?
ATP isn’t college but they work with a loan company that makes it really easy to sign up, other schools have loan options as well tho
For the people 😅!
Part 61 all the way
11% dam
What location was this?
KLGB
@@AviationAlertss although Iv seen a lot of negative things come out of ATP and part 141 schools like it, I believe the quickness of the program is worth it. As long as you are quite prepared for what you are signing up for
@@branchbutler8356 I agree if you have the funds for it and don’t need to take out the loan the speed is worth it
@@AviationAlertss I’m glad you mentioned just going for a some kinda job straight out of school and not to wait for a cfi spot, I’m planning on just going somewhere else to work
You had to pay?
a fool and their money are soon parted, robots will fly airplanes soon.
You can work for part 121 airline at 21. Captain at 23.
Airline at 21 is only if you’ve gone through a university (part 141) if you got your ratings through a mom and pop (part 61) it’s age 23
@@tgeefilms2747and ATP is part 61 so there’s that.
Not true necessarily . It’s possibly to go to the airlines with 1500 hours and all other min atp requirements at 21 , but you will be a restricted ATP
@@gabrielquevedo3837 enlighten me
@@tgeefilms2747 14 CFR § 61.160: A person may apply for an airline transport pilot certificate with an airplane category multiengine class rating or an airline transport pilot certificate concurrently with a multiengine airplane type rating if the person has 1,500 hours total time as a pilot, 200 hours of cross-country flight time, and otherwise meets the aeronautical experience requirements of § 61.159.
Is there anyway I can message you ? I have questions
Yeah email me @ chfreeman77@gmail.com
If the student fails, it is the instructors fault.
Get a haircut. Maybe the cost increase is because of government cause inflation? Have you bought gas for a car? Food? And if you can’t do the tasks to standard, then you have to practice more. And that costs more. Geez…way too much whining.
Inflation ain’t from government, it’s from monopoly. In the case of ATP, once they hook you, they’ve got a hold on you from which they can take advantage… oops, I mean “capitalize.”
Insulting his style for what… way too much whining.
ATP school is on a burner account lmao 🤣