I just completed ATP in November of 2022, so about 2 months ago as of writing this. I’m in my late 40’s, changing careers. Here’s a little about my experience and I’ll follow along with the topics like he did in the video. Did all my training in Arizona. I agree with his final decision. Safety was always stressed, but mostly because if the student screwed up even just the slightest, the instructors were worried about being fired. They used King School but got away from it for what they call Elevate, which is an in-house, online format, which I’m not a fan of. Near the end of my program, they were talking about going away from that as well, so might be different now. Use both 61 and 141. 141 was much slower as it’s a 4 year program. Classrooms were in great shape and they were actually subdividing them to give more privacy, so good on them for that. DPE’s are not in house. 141 programs allow the school to conduct stage checks (similar to checkrides) and doo it all in house depending on that schools level of certification. DPS’s are always in high demand and short supply, everywhere. ATP was expecting me for my discovery flight, but didn’t talk to anyone other than the instructor I went with. During my training, the staff above the instructors were not at all approachable and rude when you did have to interact with them. My facility was one of the larger ones, so generally had plenty of planes (172’s), but when they opened new facilities, they took most of the planes and availability went way down. They did not have enough sims to support the number of students and most of the time, at least a couple were down for maintenance. One brand new sim in particular was not allowed to be used and in the 14 months I was there, I never saw it used once and was told only one or two people in the facility were authorized to use it. Waste of equipment and space. Instructor positions aren’t guaranteed as far as I know, but in order to be picked u pay ATP, you must have MEI, which is a rating most instructors, even ATP instructors, never use. By the time I got to the point of getting my MEI, I knew I wasn’t going to be teaching for them, mostly because I would not be able to teach full time as I still needed to work my full time job. In the time I was there, maybe 4 or 5 airlines came in for recruiting events. I have no idea if this is a lot or not. No interview help that I’m aware of, but then again, I don’t teach there so maybe that’s something they offer to instructors later on, but I find that highly doubtful. When I started, the full time program was 9 months. I did flex track which when I left was no longer offered and I paid an additional $10,000 dollars for the “privilege” of going part time. It was great for me as I was working full time, up until I got to CFI. They did not care that I was on flex track and expected me to be there full time for the duration, which was not a set amount of time. I was basically told it takes as long as it takes, anywhere from 2 to 6 week. Main reason it was being dragged out was due to DPE availability. A new CFI academy would start every week and there was a guy on week three who had received his checkride endorsement the week prior and still had to wait 2 more weeks before they could find him a DPE. Not ATP’s fault, but they seemed to be quite indifferent about it. ATP went to a 7 month full time program in early 2022 and you could see the sharp decline in checkride pass rate. Like I said, did my training in Arizona, so weather was good except in monsoon season and had some zero visibility days in December and January. That became and issue as ATP policy says you must have 10 flight hours in preceding 5 days to solo. Those days kept pushing me outside of that requirement, so i kept going over on hours and being charged more. I know ATP can’t control the weather, but the requirement seemed a bit stringent. I did not utilize the housing, but it was contract apartments. My problem was part of my tuition covered housing I never used and I was never given any refund or reduction in cost due to that, so In my opinion, they are ripping you off in that regard. Funds distribution was good right up until I had the most expensive checkride, CFI. I had to front $1600 dollars and they did not seem to care it was a major burden. All test fees and checkride fees were included, though. Hope this helps.
This was a great write up of your experience! I know it took you a minute to write it all out.😅 Sorry to hear that you went through so many issues, but it sounds like you're a career pilot now and on your way to bigger things!
@@AndyPateVlogs I got picked up locally, RedRock flight school, and will be building my hours there. My individual instructors at ATP were great and I still talk with some of them. It was just such a corporate grind and nobody was really happy.
Thanks for that @michaelbeaudoin9814 I'm in my mid forties, job expires in 2 years and I was considering a career change (always wanted to fly) with the end of job bonus they provide. ATP has a location close by, my family doesn't want to move anywhere. Your summary suggests it wouldn't be the best choice, regardless of proximity. @AndyPateVlogs thanks for the detailed (and work intensive) summary of these 2 choices.
@@goodburbon1 Not to throw a wrench in it, but something else to consider. When you get to the CFI portion or your training, you are grouped together with students from other parts of the country. (At least that’s how it was being done when I was there late last year.) It did seem to be dependent on the location you came from as to how positive or negative your experience was. Those from smaller locations seemed to have a better experience and were happier. The flip side to that was CFI academy was a huge slap in the face as the stress level gets really ratcheted up at that point. Of the 8 or so students in my group that came to my location, 4 or 5 just dropped out , mostly due to the high stress, and one or two were let go for lack of performance. You essentially have three flights to learn how to do all the maneuvers from the instructor seat. If you aren’t getting it done, they boot you. (I have no idea if places like UND or CAU are similar in that regard.) NONE of the students in my group were planning on working for ATP when they got done and to my knowledge, none of them did. For comparison, where I was doing my training, there were something on the order of 20 planes. At some of the smaller locations, they may only have 5. Looking back, I wish I would have done more research and watched videos like this. The fact you are here is good.
I appreciate the immense amount of work you put into this comparison. I currently working on my choice for schools and your video was very helpful. Good luck with your new adventure and career
I'm glad you liked it! It just seemed that every time I found a source to talk about how to choose a flight school, it was too vague or didn't really go over a lot. I figured I would try to save people's time and consolidate as much of my research into this video.
Thank you so much for all your hard work doing such in-depth research comparing these two schools. Your content is amazing to say the least. Keep up the great work and keep the videos coming. Kudos!
Thank you! I'm going to do what I can to try to post weekly videos of my experience at Blue Line, but school might be too much for that 😅, so those might not get posted until after graduation. I will have my Fluffernutter Live show uploaded every week though and I'll be talking about my experience for that previous week in it, but it's far from anything fancy 😂😅
Also I would like to share my initial experience with both ATP and Blue Line flight schools. Recently, I contacted both institutions, and my experiences were quite different. ATP’s responses to my emails were blunt and left me with a negative impression. It seemed like they were overwhelmed with students. On the other hand, Blue Line provided a completely opposite experience. Their replies were detailed, welcoming, and they even invited me to visit the school and offered an assessment flight.
@@vmj7226 I sent this to our training advisors and their management. They’ll be glad to see you had such a positive experience connecting with Blue Line.
Born and raised in South florida. Atp gets a big ✔ for locations. Makes sense to go to atp if you already live near one. Cost of moving, etc, gonna come out the same.
There are too many variables to be definitive with saying that moving will even out the costs. This is why I harp on crunching your own numbers to see what fits. For me, I was saving $23k by not going to ATP, and that was with the consideration of moving to NC for Blue Line. On the other hand, I’ve met someone who crunched his numbers with the considerations I mention in the video, and he couldn’t do Blue Line because he was settled with family in a house he owned. Going to a local flight school saved him a couple thousand.
@@AndyPateVlogs exactly. I live 20 min from fxe. So makes sense to go to atp there for me. But your vid was awesome. Watched the whole thing. Even looked into blueline in NC. I could relocate, but born and raised in South florida.
I think this video has been the absolute best breakdown of the two schools that I have seen. You did an outstanding job of explaining and extrapolating the two schools. I have been stationed on Okinawa this whole time and haven’t had the opportunity to visit/really get a good feel for both. I was in the same boat with ATP/BlueLine and I have to say you have helped me greatly in my decision. Any insight on the GI Bill would be very helpful!
Thanks Eric! I really appreciate that! I have met quite a couple students so far who have come to BL and visiting the school is what won them over, so I highly recommend visiting all the flight schools you can! I'm waiting to see the GI Bill actually work, which I won't be able to tell until after flight school is done, but you can supposedly cover the cost of the Instrument and Commercial portion of the program, as well as Checkride and Written Test fees. The amount of coverage depends on the type of GI Bill you're using and the coverage you get from that GI Bill (so for example, and this is simplifying it, my GI Bill will cover 60% of the Instrument and Commercial portion, and supposedly 100% of the Checkride and Written Test fees). I will make it official in my future videos that I will be posting after I graduate.
Andy Pate Awesome to heat dude, I’m almost done with my PPL here at Kadena so hopefully I’ll have that and some hours when I get there. Looking forward to hearing about your progress. Maybe you’ll be teaching me next year when I get out!
That's crazy! I hadn't heard about 90 days. I was familiar with 6 months though. The response I received was the extension is to compensate for the traffic they are taking in.
I watched (or rather listened) to this video all the way through, beginning to end while at work and I think it was GREAT!!! I’m actually trying to get into Blue Line in the coming months and I wanted someone else’s true opinion on it. The information was exactly what I needed, and if I may enlarge your head a little, it was very well put together and professional! And your voice is nice too! You didn’t have me dozing off like some of the other videos I’ve watched! Great job! New sub for sure! 😁
Thank you so much! 😊 I truly appreciate this comment. Just a heads up, I’m working on a new one. I’m not sure when it’ll be done, but nonetheless I’m working on one. Thanks for subbing! 😁
I would definitely agree. Try to have DPE availability in-house that is tied into the school's scheduling. Blue Line has internal DPE's, but they also have relationships with external DPE's who adapt to Blue Line's fast paced schedule. The end goal is you don't want to have to wait to for your checkride when you're ready to take it.
"Don't go flying in Upstate NY" as I live in Upstate NY researching flight schools, lol. I'm in the NY Army National Guard so I have to consider getting to drill every month and AT on top of any other obligation or deployment that pops up. My thoughts are moving to FL or AZ and just eating the costs of flying in on drill weekends. It will cost more to travel, but I see it as a potential profit lost investment since the sooner I get through school and get the sooner I can get payed. Important side note, will I be denyied ATP and Blueline because I'm in the guard. If thats the case then my decision has been made for me.
You won’t be denied into either school for being in the guard, but both could potentially deny you because of how far away your drill base is. I would not recommend flying in and out every weekend. Not only would that be extremely extensive, it would be tiresome, stressful, and there are HUGE chances you’ll experience delays with that kind of commute. I would go up the chain and see if there are any options for you for what you’re trying to do (I.e. temporarily freeze your contract, transfer to a different guard unit, etc.). You’d be surprised what options might be available. In the end, if there are no options for flexibility, I would honestly find the nearest accelerated flight school to you in NY (a normal commutable distance) and time it to start your training in the part of the year that has the most consecutive months of favorable weather for flying.
I have never watched a youtube video for one hour until this video... thankyou for this breakdown.. As an international ATP does not take foreign student,blueline takes and the bugdet goes to 125k USD..😢😢
@@AndyPateVlogs Much appreciated. Andy, you mentioned in your video that you had initial interest in 20+ flight schools. Do you have any helpful information about Skyborne Flight Academy in FL?
@@JUSTseattle They sound familiar, but there were a lot of schools who didn’t make my list of 20 schools right off the bat. I feel like it’s because they have more of a concentration on international students, but I might be thinking of another school. Just briefly looking at them though, their program is way too long. Over a year to finish only 5 certs/ratings? Blue Line finishes 7 certs/ratings in half that time. Plus, absolutely not wearing an airline uniform during training, especially in Florida 😂
For the GI bill. Dependents and survivors of the GI bill are not authorized to use the benefits with any approved flight school. Doesn’t make any sense but that’s the rule
Thanks! I think if you use my video as a guideline of what to look for in a flight school, you should be able to go into that school with all the confidence that you chose the school that suits you best.
So, currently a HS Junior in Florida, and will be a senior in fall. Would it speed up my path to a flight school if I do ground school in my senior year? It would be on top of my regular HS. Also, I’m trans, did it seem like the facilities you visited are open and accepting for us in the community?
Completing grounds prior to the start of your training is highly recommended. The goal is to complete 6 writtens (PAR, IFR, CAX, FII, FIA, and FOI). Using tools like Kings School and Sheppard Air will help get you through those writtens and have a basic understanding of things prior to the start of your training. I have not heard of any discrimination towards anyone that is trans in either school. I know that we currently have a trans student now at Blue Line, so you may be able to reach out to a training advisor and ask if you can connect with that student.
How about buying a Cessna 152 and hiring a CFI? It will be cheaper in the long run. You can do all of it in the 152. Just need the complex or TAA for the Comm. Do you really need air con in the plane?
This is 100% an option, but it's not necessarily cheaper all the time. I'm actually going to take your comment as an opportunity to lay out a few responses I have provided people over the past couple months about this route for others to see (Some of this is typed directly to you, but the majority was copy and pasted from my responses to others). If this is TL;DR, my bad 😅. I have talked with several people who have gone that route and spent $10k to $20k more than I am with BL and took them several months longer. I have also met people who have spent that much less than me too though and knocked out all of their ratings in 8-9 months. What it really comes down to is personal preference and what you expect of your time through flight school. The following things are considerations that should be made when it comes to choosing a flight school: - Total Cost. This would be an accumulation of associated training costs, test and checkride fees, personal expenses while going through flight school. If you buy your own plane consider not only operational costs, but also maintenance costs, insurance costs, etc. - Opportunity Cost. The argument here is lets say you go the buy a plane and hire a CFI route. Talking with multiple free lanced CFI's, they tell me it usually takes between 12-18 months, and that's for those who are working part time and doing flight school part time. Blue Line's program is 6 months long at max. If we both started at the same time, I would be able to take a job in the aviation industry 6 months sooner, meaning I am not only getting paid sooner, but I'm also building seniority sooner (and much faster if you get into an accelerated flight school because it's much easier to rack up tons of hours if you land a job with that accelerated flight school). This one is really variable as it really comes down to your level of dedication. Most fall into that 12-18 month group. - School Structure. If you buy your own plane and hire a free lanced CFI, you are going to want to build your own "syllabus" for all of your ratings. If you go to a CFI, and end up not liking him or her, you don't want to be reliant on that CFI's structure. This can take a considerable amount of time away from you having to familiarize yourself with the FAR/AIM and all associated FAA publications and handbooks to make sure you are ready for checkrides and doing it all legally (believe me, the FAR is not an easy thing to tackle alone, and expensive to have a CFI verify you are structuring your syllabus correctly). If you choose to rely on your CFI providing your syllabus and end up not liking them, that can take a considerable amount of time from you having to re-familiarize yourself with a new structure when you go to a new CFI. At a flight school like BL, the structure is in place and is proven to be effective, so no wasted time building said syllabus. If you don't like a CFI, you switch, and the structure stays the same. - Recency. Relying on one or two CFI's to be available for you can affect your recency/proficiency. At BL, there are a bunch of instructors available all the time. As well, because it is accelerated, you don't really get the chance to fall behind on required hours to practice your certificated privileges, nor do you forget what you were just recently learning. It's awesome going from Private to Instrument to Commercial so seamlessly because Private happened so recently, less information fades away once you go into Commercial and have to re-utilize all of that information from Private (or Private to CFI, or Instrument to CFII, etc.). - Accountability. This comes down to your level of discipline, but learning aviation isn't easy and for me, I want to be put into a structured system where I don't have a choice but to move forward and study because dead lines have been put in place for me, and instructors are there making sure I am staying on the accelerated path designed for me. - Checkride gouges. One thing I've noticed about being in an actual flight school is the ability to be really prepared for a checkride. This is due to the fact that you can take a fellow student in your flight school who just did the checkride you're about to take with a specific DPE and get all of the information you need to make sure you pass a checkride specific to that DPE's likings (DPE's have standards to abide by, but they also like to see different things during checkrides). This reduces the chances of having to pay retest fee's which range from $300 to $650 for each retest because you're not surrounded by a community of people are are doing the same tests with the same DPE's as you. This is still possible with the route you mentioned, but it's much easier in a flight school environment as you have multiple sources for Checkride gouges. I'm sure there are more considerations, but this is way too long already lol. There truly are benefits to the route you have mentioned, and the majority of the time the reason someone goes that route is because they want to achieve their certificates and ratings at their own pace while still working a part time or full time job. This video is directed to those who don't fall into that category. For me, let's say I save $10k by buying my own plane and hiring a CFI, I would rather pay the extra $10k for the effectiveness and efficiency of an accelerated program (As well as the things mentioned above). You can kind of see why choosing the path on how to receive your ratings can be such a complicated and heavy decision. It takes a lot of consideration of personal preferences and goals. In the end, there are so many paths to choose from, but all that matters is you choose the path that best suits you. P.S. To answer your air conditioning question, once again, this is totally a preference. From my experience of being in aircraft without air conditioning, it is a much more enjoyable flight with AC, and it's a MUCH easier learning environment. When you don't have AC, you are playing the balance game of staying hydrated on hot days and not hydrating too much where you are having to land every hour just to go pee (I say this from experience lol).
That’s kind of a partial truth. I’ve engaged with a lot of airline/cargo recruiters and they’re not necessarily hiring military over civilian. It’s the level of experience they are shooting for, which usually comes hand and hand with military aviation. An alternative perspective though is if they are approached by two pilots, both have 3k hours, one is military and the other has been doing charter work/flying corporate, there is a large chance they would take the civilian because they already have experience in the civilian side of aviation. There is a cultural and operational transition that the veteran has to go through. Now with the current pilot shortage, not much competitive edge is needed and being military is negligible in this case because they’re borderline taking everyone they can.
What a thorough, well laid out video presentation comparing both schools! Thank you so much! I had never even heard of Blue Line as ATP marketing made it seem like they were the only boys in town that had contacts and a straight path to the airlines. I have a 14 year old who is aspiring to earn his ATP and fly either cargo or airlines when he turns 23 years old. He's in the process of applying for his PPL and is taking the Kings Ground School online course. Will these hours he will have accumalated with his PPL and flying recreationally after while still in High School count towards the 1,500 hours for his ATP? Is it advisable that before he graduate he pass all the written tests up to and including commercial and multi engine instructor??? Is that possible? Seeing that these schools "include" ground school in their fees, but if he already has give those written tests, will the tuition be reduced? How does that work? Also, can a 529 college education plan be used at Blue Line or ATP? Any advice would be much appreciated.
I'm glad you liked the video! To answer your questions (some of these I'm just going to recommend that you reach out to Blue Line and talk with their training advisors for more accurate info): 1. Will his recreational hours apply to ATP 1500? I'm a little rusty on what hours would transfer, but I feel that they would transfer. A Blue Line Training Advisor would be able to answer that more definitely. 2. Should he take all of his writtens prior to training? The 6 writtens that should be done are PAR, IFR, CAX, FIA, FII, FOI. If time permits for him to finish all writtens beforehand, definitely do it. Software like Sheppard Air will help him finish those tests up. I was able to knock out three writtens in a matter of 2 weeks with Sheppard. Those writtens will not make him a well rounded pilot or anything, but what it will do is when he gets into training, things won't be as unfamiliar. He'll have moments of "oh yeah, I remember studying about that" rather than everything being absolutely new which can be stressful. 3. Is it possible to do all of those writtens beforehand? Absolutely. Blue Line students do it all the time before they get there. Fun fact, IFR and FII use the same test answer database. What this means is after he has studied for the IFR written, he can schedule the IFR written and schedule the FII 2 days later. What this will do is if he takes the IFR written and passes, there is a very huge probability he will pass FII just two days later while it is still fresh in his mind, because the answers are the exact same for both tests. If he doesn't pass the IFR written, that will give him time to cancel/reschedule the FII written without having to worry about a cancellation/rescheduling fee. 4. Does he get reduced tuition for paying for written training software before he signs up? I'm pretty sure they do deduct that cost from the tuiton cost. I would touch base with a training advisor though just in case. 5. Is a 529 college plan applicable to BL or ATP? I'm not sure. That's a question for a training advisor.
Listen I'm not biased here but when you make your point about the CEO and COO making themselves available to you, how do you factor that in with ATP? ATP has something like 45 locations? Surely the CEO can't be at all of them.
100% agree. It would definitely be unreasonable to expect CEO (or any officer actually) availability due to ATP's size. I moreso make that point for those who may prefer a more intimate connection and availability with the upper management of their flight school.
Excellent video. One question: Zero to done with the program with no side gig as an instructor and all ratings in hand, how many hours are obtained through the training program for the 75k-89k cost?
Appreciate it! Your question is a little confusing because I'm not sure if you're asking how many hours you graduate with, or how many hours instructors get, but I'll answer both! For students, most graduate with around 200 hours. Instructors get anywhere between 50-80 hours a month training, and they typically stick around until they get to their 1500 hour mark. Also, I think the program is more now. I believe it's $93k, but we have better financing options now than when I was going through. They'll cover the training, housing, supplies and test fees, just won't cover personal stuff like food, cell phone bills, etc.
I think ATP now only hires the top 10% graduates. This might be due to business slowing down during COVID. Maybe they'll hire more graduates once business picks back up.
I haven't kept up to date with it, but when COVID hit initially, they stopped guaranteeing the instructor position all together. I can't with confidence say what they do now.
Excellent and very in depth review. My flight school choice was between Blue Line and Paragon Flight Training. Did you ever look at Paragon Flight Training in Ft Myers, Florida ?
I'm glad you liked it! Paragon wasn't one of the schools on my checklist (there are so many flight schools in Florida alone). What I would do is compare them the same way I compared Blue Line to ATP, with the same categories, and see who comes out on top for you! 😁
@@KonnorFeil Hey I did not get to complete school because COVID lockdowns hit two weeks before I was suppose to start. From my visit to Paragon, they ran a tight ship with respect to training that was customisable on your schedule. They're a student first school. It can be accelerated as much as blue line if you come with your written done and the ability to fly a lot per. day
I feel most of the issue with ADP is the speed they try and shove you along at, so what if I spent the next year or half year studying? Then jumped in?
It ultimately comes down to knowing yourself and if you feel that you would thrive in an accelerated training environment. If you’re not sure, you can always complete PSEL at a mom and pop school and then join an accelerated school later.
I tried to apply for atp. It was hard to speak to anyone on the phone or in person. When I finally reach someone, they wanted me to take out a loan through salle Mae of over $120k just to even go to school.
Yeah, I've heard some have great experiences, and others not so much. I guess it's like any large company, it depends on who you get. $120k is at the high end assuming that covers the training, housing, student supplies, checkride and test fees, etc.
I am 65 and can now start flying more than the 3 take off`s and landings I use to do for $17.00 and over 42 years ago. I want to get a pilots license and maybe add a lot of twin flight time. But I will see. I want the housing to get away from my family circus at home. Great comparison I think the ability to sit in on other classes would be very valuable. I use the old fashion, sit in the front so, I do not miss anything person.. Florida might be nice this time of the year.
General running comments. I suppose a transparency question I have, is which school did you choose to go with ultimately? (this section written midvideo, seems you took Blue Line based on wording at 21:33. Had some value upfront, instead of dragging it out.) Informing of biases and leanings in some sense, when considering the more subjective elements (around 12:00 minute mark, discussing the engagement of the staff and their relatively enjoyment on the job) as one's mileage may vary drastically. For one, at my little local airport you can walk into the aviation center building, and the pilots and staff will continue as they were, with maybe a little acknowledgement/glance over. I wouldn't rate that badly, as being a pilot is something of a bold activity, and requires your initiative. 14:29 Ok, that's... a little concerning. Answers one of my questions I had looking at them as a prospective school. My consideration for simulators as well, is how rigorous it goes through potential problems, failures, etc. All about training that lizard brain into doing the right thing when the mammal brain steps out for a smoke break. 22:30 That's flight hours WITH STUDENTS, right? FAA flight hour limitations are a thing. Aside from that in that section, there would be the question of potential earnings working with ATP, if you managed to maximize flight hours. Factor in you could also end up Cali with their ridiculous taxes draining those earnings.... Interesting on the length. I was concerned about the (in the ad campaign I've seen) ATPs 7 month program having a fine print "AND" clause. The location category is a little too specific to your regional interests. Bit of a bummer to get into that section more than a few minutes and realize they're a more state local, than national company. Oh well. Besides the lines to the contrary, good video.
I'm glad you liked the video! Let me breakdown your questions and comments. Point 1: My Choice And My Biases - I did choose Blue Line. This is stated at the end of the video, in the Conclusion chapter (and seen in future videos on my channel since this was posted). I purposely did not mention my choice until the end as I didn't want my choice to taint anyone's perspective throughout the video (assuming they chose not to skip to the end). There wasn't really anything said around 21:33 to convey who I had chosen. As for engagement with staff and your stance on it being subjective, I ask you to refer to the 1:30 timestamp. Point 2: Instructor Flight Hours - I'm not sure what you're asking. 95% of any flight time for an instructor would be with a student. The remaining 5% would be miscelanious business flights (i.e. maintenance flights, moving aircraft to different locations, etc. As for FAA flight limitations, we refer to this as pilot duty days. Yes, restrictions exist, but it's a complex subject. In the end, the FAA monitors flight schools on this subject, so it is safe to say that most flight schools are giving instructors every available hour possible within their legal possibility. It benefits both the flight school and the instructor. ATP is known for some of the worse pay for instructors, but that is hear say. Point 3: ATP's Program Length - This video was made in 2019, and the 7 month program is a recent option. That being said, I don't know if they are still having CFI class backup issues (which is what was causing everyone's training to be extended). Point 4: Location - I'd disagree that it's too detailed, but once again, I refer to you timestamp 1:30. Appreciate the feedback and good luck on your endeavors to become a pilot!
For me, I wouldn’t go to either, but it doesn’t really matter what I would choose. I put this video up for people to take the information as a template of what to look for in a flight school so they can choose the right school that suits them.
I mostly made this video for people to have a foundation to research from, essentially taking the categories I mentioned and using that to find what flight school suits them. I would love to do more of these comparison videos but this took A LOT of work to make. Second note, smaller flight schools aren't always necessarily cheaper, especially when looking at the long term cost. Some even consider the opportunity cost of time missed having a job in the aviation industry because of how much longer it takes other schools to get you your ratings.
Hello Andy I’m currently in the military I’m looking to become a future commercial pilot is there any change on the use of the post 911 or do they still have you finance under a privet lone
Hey Roman! As of now you can’t use the GI Bill for any of the program, but they’re working on it that with the VA. Some of the checkride and written test fees are still reimbursable though (so that’s about $2k you can get there).
Excellent video. I just talked to Salamae bank for 120k loan for ATP. But I might consider Blue line though. I live in Florida so I would have to go up to North Carolina then.
Hey Andy, firstly let me say thank you for all the great info you’ve provided in this video. It’s really helped me in planning for the potential transition. I had a question that has been nagging at me in regards to flight school expenses that I was hoping you might be able to shed more light on. Disclaimer, I’ve been considering Blue Line for my flight school. Is sustenance financed through the school in the form of a meal plan or am I expected to pay for that out of pocket?
glad the video was helpful!! Blue Lines financing covers everything but personal expenses, so it doesn’t cover food, personal bills, etc. The only exception is housing, as financing covers that. Some save up for any remaining expenses, and some get a personal loan either through another bank or family. I just made a video for Blue Line (on their TH-cam channel), that THOROUGHLY breaks down flight school costs. There’s even a PDF you can download to use as a checklist that’s in the description of the video. I accumulatively spent days making that video and checklist. Video is called Flight School Costs: Your Ultimate Guide.
Great job showing future pilots how great school can be be and the hard work and financial costs, can be difficult but rewarding. Does Blue Aviation have a equivalent twin plane air time like ATP. And it must be a very good idea to get the extra air time on the twin engine Rating? I hope.
Appreciate it. There is definitely a comparison though (hence the video 😅). A lot of people have messaged me saying they ended up going to other flight schools other than ATP because they realized that the alternative was better for them due to a multitude of reasons. There’s a lot that goes into choosing a flight school. I have a bunch of anecdotal engagements/reach-outs from former ATP instructors too that can carry opinionated weight in this message, but that’s hearsay, so I want to tread carefully with providing info like that lol.
I mention my choice at the end of the video (and why I chose it), but I went with Blue Line. I have already graduated from the program and now I instruct at the school 😁. COVID didn't really affect my timeline that much and still graduated around 6 months.
Of course! I'm glad it could be helpful! I hated how overwhelming all of the information there is to absorb to figure out what flight school to choose, so I figured I might be able to make it easier for others if I consolidate it into a single video :D
I've spoken a couple times on my live show about it (it's called Fluffernutter Live and they get uploaded here to TH-cam). I have been trying to create a post graduation video talking about my experience at Blue Line, but being hired on as an instructor here has left me no time to really create content like this video. It took me a REALLY long time to make this comparison, and I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to posting content. 😊 The general consensus is I am really happy I chose Blue Line. It was tough, but once I graduated, it seemed odd that any other flight school lasted any longer than 6 months. If you have any questions, you can message me on Instagram (@AndyPateVlogs).
Hey Andy, great video! Thank you so much for making this. This video was made before Covid so I hope everything went well while you were at Blue Line for training. I have a question for you, so for a person that doesn't know anyone in aviation industry, how can I connect to the pilots to ask for advice?
Uhhh, I hate TH-cam notifications. Sorry for such a late reply. For me it was aviation related Facebook groups and friends of friends type stuff. Almost all of the pilots I talked to were from that!
Hey man, so I’ve always wanted to fly. I have ZERO experience. 30yrs old. I don’t have 80 grand for flight school. Do you know of any places that can help/cover the cost of school.
There are several ways to approach the affordability of flight school: 1. Work On Bankability - This is dependent on your credit score, as well as Debt to Income ratio, but if you work on this and look good in the eyes of lenders, you can get financing to cover the costs of flight school. Example is Blue Line now has financing that covers the ground and flight training, housing, test fees and school supplies. You would just need to have the money for living expenses (food, cell phone bill, etc.) 2. Find flight schools that accept scholarships or financial programs. Typically these programs only cover a portion of the flight school, so you'll want to qualify for as many scholarships or programs as possible. 3. Pay as you go at Mom & Pop flight schools. From my experience, if 1 and 2 don't work, most go this route. They'll go to their local flight school and work out a schedule that works out around their work schedule. This will take the longest (usually 2+ years to get all of the ratings that BL provides), but you will get there without any worries about loans. 4. If you have your bachelors degree (in anything), join the military. That's as free as flight school can get (besides the cost of having to get your bachelors lol).
2 ปีที่แล้ว
Appreciate all the info, and man was it a lot of info
Heyy im an international student doing my research for an affordable and good flight school with hood instructors in the US and well I saw atp advertised almost everywhere but in doing my research I haven’t heard good reviews tbh in terms of like the work load and some of the flight instructors . So I don’t think I would want to go to atp but I do want to get all my necessary certificates and license to becoming a pilot in a year time for the most but can you tell me something about blue aviation personally you experienced as in the vibe , how everyone treats you , the cost of living and by me being a international student if there are any scholarships so I can reduce the cost of the program or anything. One more thing I should let you know aswell I literally have no experience flying so if I join a flight school I’ll be starting from 0 , the only thing I did what was apart of aviation was a certificate in aviation technology and now I’m just looking for the right flight school to start my journey of being a pilot 👨🏽✈️
I enjoyed my time at Blue Line! Instructors and fellow students were awesome as we are all in it together, in one of the most stressful training environments for pilots. Most students at Blue Line start with zero experience. You’d have to talk to a training advisor at Blue Line about being international. That’s its own series of complexities that I am not familiar with.
No problem! Most pilots I have talked to have said that it's best to go to a fast track school (like Blue Line) and then do college while you're an instructor making up hours to get to the airlines. That way you're getting into the industry sooner (seniority is everything) and you're knocking out a degree on your path to an aviation career.
Hey there congrats on the job at Blue Line! I just discovered your page today So far your videos are great. I was wondering how much longer till Blue Line moves to their new location?
Pay and bonuses have definitely gone up since this video was posted 😅 That being said, something to consider is this was made pre-COVID (more than three years ago). I assume what the airlines pay carry little weight into their program pricing, and is probably more impacted by rising operational costs of everything due to inflation and how much it is being messed with. Even so, another perspective to take is they both could technically charge even higher prices, and the ROI is still worth it (especially now that no major US carrier requires a degree anymore, which is even more money saved along the way to the airlines).
@@destinnewlon1957 Hey Destin! This threw me off when I was first doing my research but here is how it is broken down when I spoke with ATP. It’s $800/month to live in student housing. When you go to ATP’s Sallie Mae financing page, you’ll see something there that states an $800/month Living Expense Stipend. All this means is that ATP is allowing you to roll the expense of student housing into your loan if you didn’t want to pay out of pocket or through an entirely separate loan. For BL, the $500/month is for student housing as well, but the option to roll that into your loan is not available. Most students here either have saved the money or have rolled it into a separate personal loan. I hope that makes sense.
@@AndyPateVlogs oh ok I get you im still doing research but I watched your whole video but I dont have an option between those 2 schools because I dont have the means to move so I'm looking into everything I can about ATP
@@destinnewlon1957 That's a message I definitely try to get across to everyone that there isn't one school suited for everyone unfortunately. If it's possible for someone to move, it can be quite difficult to top Blue Line, but when you have to stay where you are, other options have to be considered. I just recommend taking the categories I list in this video and talk to ALL flight schools around you. You'd be surprised what the underdogs can provide to you over bigger national brands.
Prior to your comment, nothing. Just briefly looking at them, they would have dropped off my list pretty quickly. I don't see anything they provide that other schools couldn't provide at a faster and/or cheaper rate without the sacrifice in quality of training. 56 weeks is too long, and for personal preference, would hate to have wear that uniform in training aircraft lol.
It’s weird because once you graduate, you don’t really understand why other flight schools take as long as they do 😅 It was definitely stressful, but also very doable. You just need to be disciplined. Being that Blue Line has 141 programs, they’re required by the FAA to maintain an 80% pass rate, but last I checked, we’re in the 90 percentile.
Hi Andy amazing job on breaking down the two schools. How has blue line handled during the pandemic? I was reading about atp and heard from others that they were on a hiring freeze for instructors. That was a huge red flag for me as I was on the verge on joining atp and then I came upon your amazing video here about blue line aviation. I was just wondering how has blue line handled it’s pilot and are they still on the 5.5 months of completing the program. Are they still guaranteeing flight instructor?
I'm glad you liked the video! It definitely wasn't easy for Blue Line to get through COVID, but it managed to get through it all. Blue Line pushes completing the program within 6 months, but they shoot to have you done well before then. This buffers for any delays, such as weather. Blue Line doesn't guarantee an instructor position, for the reasons I mentioned in the video. They assess their students for the instructor position prior to hiring, rather than hiring and assessing them after receiving the job. This maintains the quality of instruction that Blue Line puts out. That being said, Blue Line has been hiring non-stop, and we just hired 4 new instructors.
I still graduated on time even with weather and COVID delays. I instruct at Blue Line now and it's crazy how efficient Blue Line is with scheduling to keep students on track. I'm definitely glad I chose Blue Line 😊
I highly recommend watching my ATP vs Blue Line video. It's long, but it will give you all the necessary tools to make sure you choose the best flight school for you. I ended up going to Blue Line and I'm glad I chose them.
It definitely is! If you wanted to go to the airlines, you'd have to wait a little bit as they have a minimum age of 23, but by the time you turned 23, you would have a bunch of experience at such a young age, and the airlines will love that!
@@DaveedNation You would most likely use your instructor time to build up some experience for maybe a year or two, but after that, you could start looking into Part 135 jobs (think private jets) and build some turbine time and experience in a commercial environment.
Little late the party but great video! Do you know the minimum age that is required to attend? I am assuming right after high school you can attend but just wondering. Keep up the good content!
@@AndyPateVlogs thanks for the reply, one last question, do you know if a 529 savings account can be used towards these schools but primarily blue line?
ATP is an over priced pilot mill that teaches you just enough to pass the tests and check rides and that’s it, you can get better experience for less money by avoiding ATP.
Thanks man! It's made of copper and I had my logo engraved on the front, and a quote on the back 😁 I'm pretty sure I got it made on Etsy like years ago!
I talked to the blue line early December, just to give you an idea in my situation I only have 2 months left of the post 9/11 benefits because I have a MS degree in IT. Basically they say depends on the amount of benefits you have, so for me they say I have roughly 14K to cover. In your situation, It can be substantially more but it won't cover the entire program only a portion of it more than likely. The good thing is that they help you out with the housing and they waive some fees to have you on board with them. Again you have to talk and negotiate with them. The reason I didn't go with them is because the loan company they want me to start making payments while taking classes and that was deal breaker for me. I qualified for an 8.99 interest with automatic payment they gave me 8.75 for the 84 months. In the end, they are making roughly 20k to 30k in interest on top of the 60k tuition. So the best way to afford flight school is to save for at least 2 or 3 years so you can be more prepared financially and not drown into debt. Hopefully this helps to give you an idea.
Sorry for the late reply. I'm having to constantly go back on all the comments of all of my videos to see if I have received any new comments 😒. TH-cam notifications are horrible. As for the GI Bill thing, this is a video that is at the top of my list, but I wanted to wait to see how the VA would actually handle my claim for reimbursement, which has yet to be completed (due to the VA, not Blue Line). The problem with this subject is it is dependent on so many variables (i.e. Were you active, reserve or guard, how long did you serve, do you have Post 9/11 or Montgomery, etc.). Let's break this down into two separate subjects here that the GI Bill is split into: CHECKRIDE AND TEST FEES Any fees regarding Checkride fees and Knowledge Test fees are done by the individual, not Blue Line. I actually have a written out process for how to go about this, but I am still experimenting with the VA on this, as I have only received a portion of my test fees back so far. The VA seems to have "lost" my other reimbursement claims for checkride fees and test fees, so those were re-submitted and now it's a waiting game. PROGRAM REIMBURSEMENT Receiving reimbursement for the program is done by Blue Line. The $14k that Luis mentions above is the max that the VA will cover for any individual seeking reimbursement through the GI Bill, but once again, this is very dependent on each person and their status with GI Bill reimbursement. Example would be that because I was Air Force Reserve, and because I use Post 9/11, I can only receive up to 60% of that ~$14k back supposedly. As to how much of the program is covered, the VA will only cover Part 141 courses, which in this case would be the Instrument and Commercial portion of the program. CFI, CFII, CMEL and MEI are all Part 61, so those programs aren't reimbursable. Private is 141, but the VA won't reimburse for a Private Pilot License. I hope this answers your question, and I intend to post a video once I'm 100% sure how the VA actually handles reimbursing 141 schools based on my own experience. Side note: Due to COVID, the VA is severely understaffed in the department that does reimbursements, so this is why there is such a wait for reimbursement (or proper guidance on how they handle reimbursement).
So now that you've gone through the program, was 5.5 months ever really realistic? What should students really expect when choosing a flight school, especially with financing and income potential to consider?
I graduated in 6 months, and that was with COVID hitting right at the beginning of the program. We just had a student complete the entire program in 5 months, but we also had a student graduate in 7 months. It’s definitely possible to finish in 5.5 months, and usually comes down to the students commitment. As for your 2nd question, I don’t completely understand it. Are you still talking about the timeline or a macro perspective about flight school?
@@AndyPateVlogs Mostly timeline. The longer the program, the more it will cost in some programs. So what certs did you get in those 6 months? Was that just to CFI or CFI-I or MEI or...? I understand that ATP will get you all the way through ATP-R, but I don't think they're the right fit for me, either.
You'll receive PPL, IFR, CSEL, CFI, CFII, CMEL and MEI. The initial cost of ATP's program doesn't include taking you to the ATP certificate (and restricted is only if it is applicable to you). They'll provide guidance on receiving the ATP certificate, but it is a separate cost, as it would be through most flight schools (I say most flight schools instead of all because I'm not sure if there are any flight schools out there that also include it into the initial cost of training).
@@AndyPateVlogs WOW you did all that in 6 months! You beast! Thanks for the truly excellent advice. If only there was a Blue Line near me... Airlines have alliances. Maybe flight schools could band together so students have a more uniform idea of what to expect. Just a thought.
I just completed ATP in November of 2022, so about 2 months ago as of writing this. I’m in my late 40’s, changing careers. Here’s a little about my experience and I’ll follow along with the topics like he did in the video. Did all my training in Arizona. I agree with his final decision. Safety was always stressed, but mostly because if the student screwed up even just the slightest, the instructors were worried about being fired. They used King School but got away from it for what they call Elevate, which is an in-house, online format, which I’m not a fan of. Near the end of my program, they were talking about going away from that as well, so might be different now. Use both 61 and 141. 141 was much slower as it’s a 4 year program. Classrooms were in great shape and they were actually subdividing them to give more privacy, so good on them for that. DPE’s are not in house. 141 programs allow the school to conduct stage checks (similar to checkrides) and doo it all in house depending on that schools level of certification. DPS’s are always in high demand and short supply, everywhere. ATP was expecting me for my discovery flight, but didn’t talk to anyone other than the instructor I went with. During my training, the staff above the instructors were not at all approachable and rude when you did have to interact with them. My facility was one of the larger ones, so generally had plenty of planes (172’s), but when they opened new facilities, they took most of the planes and availability went way down. They did not have enough sims to support the number of students and most of the time, at least a couple were down for maintenance. One brand new sim in particular was not allowed to be used and in the 14 months I was there, I never saw it used once and was told only one or two people in the facility were authorized to use it. Waste of equipment and space. Instructor positions aren’t guaranteed as far as I know, but in order to be picked u pay ATP, you must have MEI, which is a rating most instructors, even ATP instructors, never use. By the time I got to the point of getting my MEI, I knew I wasn’t going to be teaching for them, mostly because I would not be able to teach full time as I still needed to work my full time job. In the time I was there, maybe 4 or 5 airlines came in for recruiting events. I have no idea if this is a lot or not. No interview help that I’m aware of, but then again, I don’t teach there so maybe that’s something they offer to instructors later on, but I find that highly doubtful. When I started, the full time program was 9 months. I did flex track which when I left was no longer offered and I paid an additional $10,000 dollars for the “privilege” of going part time. It was great for me as I was working full time, up until I got to CFI. They did not care that I was on flex track and expected me to be there full time for the duration, which was not a set amount of time. I was basically told it takes as long as it takes, anywhere from 2 to 6 week. Main reason it was being dragged out was due to DPE availability. A new CFI academy would start every week and there was a guy on week three who had received his checkride endorsement the week prior and still had to wait 2 more weeks before they could find him a DPE. Not ATP’s fault, but they seemed to be quite indifferent about it. ATP went to a 7 month full time program in early 2022 and you could see the sharp decline in checkride pass rate. Like I said, did my training in Arizona, so weather was good except in monsoon season and had some zero visibility days in December and January. That became and issue as ATP policy says you must have 10 flight hours in preceding 5 days to solo. Those days kept pushing me outside of that requirement, so i kept going over on hours and being charged more. I know ATP can’t control the weather, but the requirement seemed a bit stringent. I did not utilize the housing, but it was contract apartments. My problem was part of my tuition covered housing I never used and I was never given any refund or reduction in cost due to that, so In my opinion, they are ripping you off in that regard. Funds distribution was good right up until I had the most expensive checkride, CFI. I had to front $1600 dollars and they did not seem to care it was a major burden. All test fees and checkride fees were included, though. Hope this helps.
This was a great write up of your experience! I know it took you a minute to write it all out.😅 Sorry to hear that you went through so many issues, but it sounds like you're a career pilot now and on your way to bigger things!
@@AndyPateVlogs I got picked up locally, RedRock flight school, and will be building my hours there. My individual instructors at ATP were great and I still talk with some of them. It was just such a corporate grind and nobody was really happy.
Thanks for that
@michaelbeaudoin9814 I'm in my mid forties, job expires in 2 years and I was considering a career change (always wanted to fly) with the end of job bonus they provide. ATP has a location close by, my family doesn't want to move anywhere. Your summary suggests it wouldn't be the best choice, regardless of proximity. @AndyPateVlogs thanks for the detailed (and work intensive) summary of these 2 choices.
@@goodburbon1 No problem!!
@@goodburbon1 Not to throw a wrench in it, but something else to consider. When you get to the CFI portion or your training, you are grouped together with students from other parts of the country. (At least that’s how it was being done when I was there late last year.) It did seem to be dependent on the location you came from as to how positive or negative your experience was. Those from smaller locations seemed to have a better experience and were happier. The flip side to that was CFI academy was a huge slap in the face as the stress level gets really ratcheted up at that point. Of the 8 or so students in my group that came to my location, 4 or 5 just dropped out , mostly due to the high stress, and one or two were let go for lack of performance. You essentially have three flights to learn how to do all the maneuvers from the instructor seat. If you aren’t getting it done, they boot you. (I have no idea if places like UND or CAU are similar in that regard.) NONE of the students in my group were planning on working for ATP when they got done and to my knowledge, none of them did. For comparison, where I was doing my training, there were something on the order of 20 planes. At some of the smaller locations, they may only have 5. Looking back, I wish I would have done more research and watched videos like this. The fact you are here is good.
I appreciate the immense amount of work you put into this comparison. I currently working on my choice for schools and your video was very helpful. Good luck with your new adventure and career
I'm glad you liked it! It just seemed that every time I found a source to talk about how to choose a flight school, it was too vague or didn't really go over a lot. I figured I would try to save people's time and consolidate as much of my research into this video.
Thank you so much for all your hard work doing such in-depth research comparing these two schools. Your content is amazing to say the least. Keep up the great work and keep the videos coming. Kudos!
Thank you! I'm going to do what I can to try to post weekly videos of my experience at Blue Line, but school might be too much for that 😅, so those might not get posted until after graduation. I will have my Fluffernutter Live show uploaded every week though and I'll be talking about my experience for that previous week in it, but it's far from anything fancy 😂😅
Thank you so much for your time to break down everything for us! really appreciate it :)
Woah, I'm really late on replying to this 😅 I'm glad you liked it and I hope it was helpful!
Such a perfect layout of information. Thank you so much Andy for making this!
@@vmj7226 No problem! I’m glad you liked it!
Also I would like to share my initial experience with both ATP and Blue Line flight schools. Recently, I contacted both institutions, and my experiences were quite different.
ATP’s responses to my emails were blunt and left me with a negative impression. It seemed like they were overwhelmed with students. On the other hand, Blue Line provided a completely opposite experience. Their replies were detailed, welcoming, and they even invited me to visit the school and offered an assessment flight.
@@vmj7226 I sent this to our training advisors and their management. They’ll be glad to see you had such a positive experience connecting with Blue Line.
really appreciate the immense amount of work you have put into this video for the future upcoming pilots. thank you so much for helping us out!
Of course! I’m glad you found it helpful! 😁
Born and raised in South florida. Atp gets a big ✔ for locations. Makes sense to go to atp if you already live near one. Cost of moving, etc, gonna come out the same.
There are too many variables to be definitive with saying that moving will even out the costs. This is why I harp on crunching your own numbers to see what fits. For me, I was saving $23k by not going to ATP, and that was with the consideration of moving to NC for Blue Line. On the other hand, I’ve met someone who crunched his numbers with the considerations I mention in the video, and he couldn’t do Blue Line because he was settled with family in a house he owned. Going to a local flight school saved him a couple thousand.
@@AndyPateVlogs exactly. I live 20 min from fxe. So makes sense to go to atp there for me. But your vid was awesome. Watched the whole thing. Even looked into blueline in NC. I could relocate, but born and raised in South florida.
@@americantrailrider7031 I’m glad you liked the video 😁
I think this video has been the absolute best breakdown of the two schools that I have seen.
You did an outstanding job of explaining and extrapolating the two schools.
I have been stationed on Okinawa this whole time and haven’t had the opportunity to visit/really get a good feel for both. I was in the same boat with ATP/BlueLine and I have to say you have helped me greatly in my decision.
Any insight on the GI Bill would be very helpful!
Thanks Eric! I really appreciate that! I have met quite a couple students so far who have come to BL and visiting the school is what won them over, so I highly recommend visiting all the flight schools you can! I'm waiting to see the GI Bill actually work, which I won't be able to tell until after flight school is done, but you can supposedly cover the cost of the Instrument and Commercial portion of the program, as well as Checkride and Written Test fees. The amount of coverage depends on the type of GI Bill you're using and the coverage you get from that GI Bill (so for example, and this is simplifying it, my GI Bill will cover 60% of the Instrument and Commercial portion, and supposedly 100% of the Checkride and Written Test fees). I will make it official in my future videos that I will be posting after I graduate.
Andy Pate Awesome to heat dude, I’m almost done with my PPL here at Kadena so hopefully I’ll have that and some hours when I get there. Looking forward to hearing about your progress.
Maybe you’ll be teaching me next year when I get out!
ATP was 90 days back in the days. Then they moved it to 6 months and now it’s 9 months. You can see how things change.
That's crazy! I hadn't heard about 90 days. I was familiar with 6 months though. The response I received was the extension is to compensate for the traffic they are taking in.
Still waiting on the week by week footage from your time training at Blueline... 😁
I watched (or rather listened) to this video all the way through, beginning to end while at work and I think it was GREAT!!! I’m actually trying to get into Blue Line in the coming months and I wanted someone else’s true opinion on it. The information was exactly what I needed, and if I may enlarge your head a little, it was very well put together and professional! And your voice is nice too! You didn’t have me dozing off like some of the other videos I’ve watched! Great job! New sub for sure! 😁
Thank you so much! 😊 I truly appreciate this comment. Just a heads up, I’m working on a new one. I’m not sure when it’ll be done, but nonetheless I’m working on one. Thanks for subbing! 😁
DID YOU GET TO FINISH YOUR COURSE
A lot of the smaller ATP locations don’t have DPE in-House . If u go to ATP , go to one of their main facilities .
I would definitely agree. Try to have DPE availability in-house that is tied into the school's scheduling. Blue Line has internal DPE's, but they also have relationships with external DPE's who adapt to Blue Line's fast paced schedule. The end goal is you don't want to have to wait to for your checkride when you're ready to take it.
I’m just under an hour away (Tampa) from Blue Line. Definitely looking into them over ATP.
I wish BL was in Florida when I was first looking!
Is the one here in Winter Haven a new location??
@@kipali1471 Yeah, it’s so new they are still in temporary buildings as of right now, but they are fully operational.
"Don't go flying in Upstate NY" as I live in Upstate NY researching flight schools, lol. I'm in the NY Army National Guard so I have to consider getting to drill every month and AT on top of any other obligation or deployment that pops up. My thoughts are moving to FL or AZ and just eating the costs of flying in on drill weekends. It will cost more to travel, but I see it as a potential profit lost investment since the sooner I get through school and get the sooner I can get payed. Important side note, will I be denyied ATP and Blueline because I'm in the guard. If thats the case then my decision has been made for me.
You won’t be denied into either school for being in the guard, but both could potentially deny you because of how far away your drill base is. I would not recommend flying in and out every weekend. Not only would that be extremely extensive, it would be tiresome, stressful, and there are HUGE chances you’ll experience delays with that kind of commute. I would go up the chain and see if there are any options for you for what you’re trying to do (I.e. temporarily freeze your contract, transfer to a different guard unit, etc.). You’d be surprised what options might be available.
In the end, if there are no options for flexibility, I would honestly find the nearest accelerated flight school to you in NY (a normal commutable distance) and time it to start your training in the part of the year that has the most consecutive months of favorable weather for flying.
I have never watched a youtube video for one hour until this video... thankyou for this breakdown..
As an international ATP does not take foreign student,blueline takes and the bugdet goes to 125k USD..😢😢
I’m glad you watched the whole thing 😂 I would check out Florida. They have a bunch of international flight schools, but they won’t be as fast as BL.
Man, this video is absolutely phenomenal. Thanks so much for the great work!
Of course! Glad you liked it man!
Thanks Andy! I greatly appreciate the work you put in to the design of your video; it was incredibly helpful for me in my pilot school research.
I’m glad it was helpful!
@@AndyPateVlogs Much appreciated. Andy, you mentioned in your video that you had initial interest in 20+ flight schools. Do you have any helpful information about Skyborne Flight Academy in FL?
@@JUSTseattle They sound familiar, but there were a lot of schools who didn’t make my list of 20 schools right off the bat. I feel like it’s because they have more of a concentration on international students, but I might be thinking of another school.
Just briefly looking at them though, their program is way too long. Over a year to finish only 5 certs/ratings? Blue Line finishes 7 certs/ratings in half that time. Plus, absolutely not wearing an airline uniform during training, especially in Florida 😂
@@AndyPateVlogs Oh boy! Good catch about the uniform...I didn't catch that. I appreciate your response, thank you and take care!
For the GI bill. Dependents and survivors of the GI bill are not authorized to use the benefits with any approved flight school. Doesn’t make any sense but that’s the rule
Haven’t heard that yet, but wouldn’t be surprised.
Would be nice if Diamond offered side stick like Cirrus or yoke option.
I’ve never flown side stick, but between the Cessna I flew and the Diamond, I would prefer the Diamond’s stick.
Currently considering Pheonix East Aviation over ATP. Not 100% sure yet.
Great video!
Thanks! I think if you use my video as a guideline of what to look for in a flight school, you should be able to go into that school with all the confidence that you chose the school that suits you best.
@@AndyPateVlogs indeed.
Thanks for this. I live only about an hour away from Blue lines new location. I've been up in the air about which is better.
Oh cool! Their newest location is in Florida. Is that what you mean, or do you live near the NC facility?
Wow what a great work! This is really helpful! Thank you!
I'm glad you liked it man! It fried me making this video 😅
So, currently a HS Junior in Florida, and will be a senior in fall. Would it speed up my path to a flight school if I do ground school in my senior year? It would be on top of my regular HS.
Also, I’m trans, did it seem like the facilities you visited are open and accepting for us in the community?
Completing grounds prior to the start of your training is highly recommended. The goal is to complete 6 writtens (PAR, IFR, CAX, FII, FIA, and FOI). Using tools like Kings School and Sheppard Air will help get you through those writtens and have a basic understanding of things prior to the start of your training.
I have not heard of any discrimination towards anyone that is trans in either school. I know that we currently have a trans student now at Blue Line, so you may be able to reach out to a training advisor and ask if you can connect with that student.
Program cost now is $89500 as of November 2021. Blue line.
How about buying a Cessna 152 and hiring a CFI? It will be cheaper in the long run. You can do all of it in the 152. Just need the complex or TAA for the Comm. Do you really need air con in the plane?
This is 100% an option, but it's not necessarily cheaper all the time. I'm actually going to take your comment as an opportunity to lay out a few responses I have provided people over the past couple months about this route for others to see (Some of this is typed directly to you, but the majority was copy and pasted from my responses to others). If this is TL;DR, my bad 😅.
I have talked with several people who have gone that route and spent $10k to $20k more than I am with BL and took them several months longer. I have also met people who have spent that much less than me too though and knocked out all of their ratings in 8-9 months. What it really comes down to is personal preference and what you expect of your time through flight school. The following things are considerations that should be made when it comes to choosing a flight school:
- Total Cost. This would be an accumulation of associated training costs, test and checkride fees, personal expenses while going through flight school. If you buy your own plane consider not only operational costs, but also maintenance costs, insurance costs, etc.
- Opportunity Cost. The argument here is lets say you go the buy a plane and hire a CFI route. Talking with multiple free lanced CFI's, they tell me it usually takes between 12-18 months, and that's for those who are working part time and doing flight school part time. Blue Line's program is 6 months long at max. If we both started at the same time, I would be able to take a job in the aviation industry 6 months sooner, meaning I am not only getting paid sooner, but I'm also building seniority sooner (and much faster if you get into an accelerated flight school because it's much easier to rack up tons of hours if you land a job with that accelerated flight school).
This one is really variable as it really comes down to your level of dedication. Most fall into that 12-18 month group.
- School Structure. If you buy your own plane and hire a free lanced CFI, you are going to want to build your own "syllabus" for all of your ratings. If you go to a CFI, and end up not liking him or her, you don't want to be reliant on that CFI's structure. This can take a considerable amount of time away from you having to familiarize yourself with the FAR/AIM and all associated FAA publications and handbooks to make sure you are ready for checkrides and doing it all legally (believe me, the FAR is not an easy thing to tackle alone, and expensive to have a CFI verify you are structuring your syllabus correctly). If you choose to rely on your CFI providing your syllabus and end up not liking them, that can take a considerable amount of time from you having to re-familiarize yourself with a new structure when you go to a new CFI. At a flight school like BL, the structure is in place and is proven to be effective, so no wasted time building said syllabus.
If you don't like a CFI, you switch, and the structure stays the same.
- Recency. Relying on one or two CFI's to be available for you can affect your recency/proficiency. At BL, there are a bunch of instructors available all the time. As well, because it is accelerated, you don't really get the chance to fall behind on required hours to practice your certificated privileges, nor do you forget what you were just recently learning. It's awesome going from Private to Instrument to Commercial so seamlessly because Private happened so recently, less information fades away once you go into Commercial and have to re-utilize all of that information from Private (or Private to CFI, or Instrument to CFII, etc.).
- Accountability. This comes down to your level of discipline, but learning aviation isn't easy and for me, I want to be put into a structured system where I don't have a choice but to move forward and study because dead lines have been put in place for me, and instructors are there making sure I am staying on the accelerated path designed for me.
- Checkride gouges. One thing I've noticed about being in an actual flight school is the ability to be really prepared for a checkride. This is due to the fact that you can take a fellow student in your flight school who just did the checkride you're about to take with a specific DPE and get all of the information you need to make sure you pass a checkride specific to that DPE's likings (DPE's have standards to abide by, but they also like to see different things during checkrides). This reduces the chances of having to pay retest fee's which range from $300 to $650 for each retest because you're not surrounded by a community of people are are doing the same tests with the same DPE's as you. This is still possible with the route you mentioned, but it's much easier in a flight school environment as you have multiple sources for Checkride gouges.
I'm sure there are more considerations, but this is way too long already lol. There truly are benefits to the route you have mentioned, and the majority of the time the reason someone goes that route is because they want to achieve their certificates and ratings at their own pace while still working a part time or full time job. This video is directed to those who don't fall into that category. For me, let's say I save $10k by buying my own plane and hiring a CFI, I would rather pay the extra $10k for the effectiveness and efficiency of an accelerated program (As well as the things mentioned above). You can kind of see why choosing the path on how to receive your ratings can be such a complicated and heavy decision. It takes a lot of consideration of personal preferences and goals. In the end, there are so many paths to choose from, but all that matters is you choose the path that best suits you.
P.S. To answer your air conditioning question, once again, this is totally a preference. From my experience of being in aircraft without air conditioning, it is a much more enjoyable flight with AC, and it's a MUCH easier learning environment. When you don't have AC, you are playing the balance game of staying hydrated on hot days and not hydrating too much where you are having to land every hour just to go pee (I say this from experience lol).
@@AndyPateVlogs 10k more and they have their own plane already 😅 but what you do with it after Graduation?
Blue Line sounds great. I wish they can have a location in the Memphis area
There's talks about a 2nd location, and it is supposed to be in Florida.
Shoutout to you for the GI Bill information
No problem! If you haven't already, make sure to check the description. It has some updated notes about the GI Bill.
My grandfather was a captain retired in education at American and that’s correct school doesn’t matter just know they pick military over all schools
That’s kind of a partial truth. I’ve engaged with a lot of airline/cargo recruiters and they’re not necessarily hiring military over civilian. It’s the level of experience they are shooting for, which usually comes hand and hand with military aviation. An alternative perspective though is if they are approached by two pilots, both have 3k hours, one is military and the other has been doing charter work/flying corporate, there is a large chance they would take the civilian because they already have experience in the civilian side of aviation. There is a cultural and operational transition that the veteran has to go through.
Now with the current pilot shortage, not much competitive edge is needed and being military is negligible in this case because they’re borderline taking everyone they can.
Thank you for this! Currently looking at both of those in RDU too!
Just a heads up, Blue Line moved into their new facility about 40 minutes south of RDU.
What a thorough, well laid out video presentation comparing both schools! Thank you so much! I had never even heard of Blue Line as ATP marketing made it seem like they were the only boys in town that had contacts and a straight path to the airlines.
I have a 14 year old who is aspiring to earn his ATP and fly either cargo or airlines when he turns 23 years old. He's in the process of applying for his PPL and is taking the Kings Ground School online course. Will these hours he will have accumalated with his PPL and flying recreationally after while still in High School count towards the 1,500 hours for his ATP? Is it advisable that before he graduate he pass all the written tests up to and including commercial and multi engine instructor??? Is that possible? Seeing that these schools "include" ground school in their fees, but if he already has give those written tests, will the tuition be reduced? How does that work? Also, can a 529 college education plan be used at Blue Line or ATP? Any advice would be much appreciated.
I'm glad you liked the video! To answer your questions (some of these I'm just going to recommend that you reach out to Blue Line and talk with their training advisors for more accurate info):
1. Will his recreational hours apply to ATP 1500? I'm a little rusty on what hours would transfer, but I feel that they would transfer. A Blue Line Training Advisor would be able to answer that more definitely.
2. Should he take all of his writtens prior to training? The 6 writtens that should be done are PAR, IFR, CAX, FIA, FII, FOI. If time permits for him to finish all writtens beforehand, definitely do it. Software like Sheppard Air will help him finish those tests up. I was able to knock out three writtens in a matter of 2 weeks with Sheppard. Those writtens will not make him a well rounded pilot or anything, but what it will do is when he gets into training, things won't be as unfamiliar. He'll have moments of "oh yeah, I remember studying about that" rather than everything being absolutely new which can be stressful.
3. Is it possible to do all of those writtens beforehand? Absolutely. Blue Line students do it all the time before they get there. Fun fact, IFR and FII use the same test answer database. What this means is after he has studied for the IFR written, he can schedule the IFR written and schedule the FII 2 days later. What this will do is if he takes the IFR written and passes, there is a very huge probability he will pass FII just two days later while it is still fresh in his mind, because the answers are the exact same for both tests. If he doesn't pass the IFR written, that will give him time to cancel/reschedule the FII written without having to worry about a cancellation/rescheduling fee.
4. Does he get reduced tuition for paying for written training software before he signs up? I'm pretty sure they do deduct that cost from the tuiton cost. I would touch base with a training advisor though just in case.
5. Is a 529 college plan applicable to BL or ATP? I'm not sure. That's a question for a training advisor.
Listen I'm not biased here but when you make your point about the CEO and COO making themselves available to you, how do you factor that in with ATP? ATP has something like 45 locations? Surely the CEO can't be at all of them.
100% agree. It would definitely be unreasonable to expect CEO (or any officer actually) availability due to ATP's size. I moreso make that point for those who may prefer a more intimate connection and availability with the upper management of their flight school.
Agree to disagree.Let’s forget about CEO, ATP couldn’t give a proper tour. What are you talking about...
Excellent video. One question: Zero to done with the program with no side gig as an instructor and all ratings in hand, how many hours are obtained through the training program for the 75k-89k cost?
Appreciate it! Your question is a little confusing because I'm not sure if you're asking how many hours you graduate with, or how many hours instructors get, but I'll answer both! For students, most graduate with around 200 hours. Instructors get anywhere between 50-80 hours a month training, and they typically stick around until they get to their 1500 hour mark. Also, I think the program is more now. I believe it's $93k, but we have better financing options now than when I was going through. They'll cover the training, housing, supplies and test fees, just won't cover personal stuff like food, cell phone bills, etc.
@@AndyPateVlogs I was focused on the student's hours. Thank you for taking the time to answer. Keep up the good work with your endeavors!
Thank you so much for researching this! I didn’t know where to begin and what kind of question I would want to ask. So thanks !! 😁
I'm glad it helped! It was definitely overwhelming when I was doing my research, so I did what I could to help with the process.
This video is grossly underrated.
I really appreciate that! 😊
I think ATP now only hires the top 10% graduates. This might be due to business slowing down during COVID. Maybe they'll hire more graduates once business picks back up.
I haven't kept up to date with it, but when COVID hit initially, they stopped guaranteeing the instructor position all together. I can't with confidence say what they do now.
Love this video man, helps me so so much. I appreciate how in-depth this is!!❤️
I’m glad you liked it man!!
Wow!!! Thank you for such a detailed video. Very informative and helpful!
Thanks Bob! I'm glad you liked it. I'm hoping to do an updated version at some point.
Excellent and very in depth review. My flight school choice was between Blue Line and Paragon Flight Training. Did you ever look at Paragon Flight Training in Ft Myers, Florida ?
I'm glad you liked it! Paragon wasn't one of the schools on my checklist (there are so many flight schools in Florida alone). What I would do is compare them the same way I compared Blue Line to ATP, with the same categories, and see who comes out on top for you! 😁
I am also trying to decide which school to go to between paragon and blue line. Which school did you decide on and how was your experience?
@@KonnorFeil Hey I did not get to complete school because COVID lockdowns hit two weeks before I was suppose to start. From my visit to Paragon, they ran a tight ship with respect to training that was customisable on your schedule. They're a student first school. It can be accelerated as much as blue line if you come with your written done and the ability to fly a lot per. day
I feel most of the issue with ADP is the speed they try and shove you along at, so what if I spent the next year or half year studying? Then jumped in?
It ultimately comes down to knowing yourself and if you feel that you would thrive in an accelerated training environment. If you’re not sure, you can always complete PSEL at a mom and pop school and then join an accelerated school later.
Excellent video! I will be using this as a template for ranking my prospective flight schools
I'm glad it was helpful! I figured I would try to reduce the chaos of researching flight schools as much as possible 😅
I did not skip. Done make a face bro. Thank you good info. Happy to give you thumbs up.
I don't know how I'm just now seeing your comment but I appreciate you not skipping 😂😂😅
I tried to apply for atp. It was hard to speak to anyone on the phone or in person. When I finally reach someone, they wanted me to take out a loan through salle Mae of over $120k just to even go to school.
Yeah, I've heard some have great experiences, and others not so much. I guess it's like any large company, it depends on who you get. $120k is at the high end assuming that covers the training, housing, student supplies, checkride and test fees, etc.
I am 65 and can now start flying more than the 3 take off`s and landings I use to do for $17.00 and over 42 years ago. I want to get a pilots license and maybe add a lot of twin flight time. But I will see. I want the housing to get away from my family circus at home. Great comparison I think the ability to sit in on other classes would be very valuable. I use the old fashion, sit in the front so, I do not miss anything person.. Florida might be nice this time of the year.
It’s definitely not as cheap as it used to be!
General running comments.
I suppose a transparency question I have, is which school did you choose to go with ultimately? (this section written midvideo, seems you took Blue Line based on wording at 21:33. Had some value upfront, instead of dragging it out.) Informing of biases and leanings in some sense, when considering the more subjective elements (around 12:00 minute mark, discussing the engagement of the staff and their relatively enjoyment on the job) as one's mileage may vary drastically. For one, at my little local airport you can walk into the aviation center building, and the pilots and staff will continue as they were, with maybe a little acknowledgement/glance over. I wouldn't rate that badly, as being a pilot is something of a bold activity, and requires your initiative.
14:29 Ok, that's... a little concerning. Answers one of my questions I had looking at them as a prospective school.
My consideration for simulators as well, is how rigorous it goes through potential problems, failures, etc. All about training that lizard brain into doing the right thing when the mammal brain steps out for a smoke break.
22:30 That's flight hours WITH STUDENTS, right? FAA flight hour limitations are a thing.
Aside from that in that section, there would be the question of potential earnings working with ATP, if you managed to maximize flight hours. Factor in you could also end up Cali with their ridiculous taxes draining those earnings....
Interesting on the length. I was concerned about the (in the ad campaign I've seen) ATPs 7 month program having a fine print "AND" clause.
The location category is a little too specific to your regional interests. Bit of a bummer to get into that section more than a few minutes and realize they're a more state local, than national company. Oh well.
Besides the lines to the contrary, good video.
I'm glad you liked the video! Let me breakdown your questions and comments.
Point 1: My Choice And My Biases
- I did choose Blue Line. This is stated at the end of the video, in the Conclusion chapter (and seen in future videos on my channel since this was posted). I purposely did not mention my choice until the end as I didn't want my choice to taint anyone's perspective throughout the video (assuming they chose not to skip to the end). There wasn't really anything said around 21:33 to convey who I had chosen. As for engagement with staff and your stance on it being subjective, I ask you to refer to the 1:30 timestamp.
Point 2: Instructor Flight Hours
- I'm not sure what you're asking. 95% of any flight time for an instructor would be with a student. The remaining 5% would be miscelanious business flights (i.e. maintenance flights, moving aircraft to different locations, etc. As for FAA flight limitations, we refer to this as pilot duty days. Yes, restrictions exist, but it's a complex subject. In the end, the FAA monitors flight schools on this subject, so it is safe to say that most flight schools are giving instructors every available hour possible within their legal possibility. It benefits both the flight school and the instructor. ATP is known for some of the worse pay for instructors, but that is hear say.
Point 3: ATP's Program Length
- This video was made in 2019, and the 7 month program is a recent option. That being said, I don't know if they are still having CFI class backup issues (which is what was causing everyone's training to be extended).
Point 4: Location
- I'd disagree that it's too detailed, but once again, I refer to you timestamp 1:30.
Appreciate the feedback and good luck on your endeavors to become a pilot!
Andy,
This is quite informative.
Quick Question for you.
Between Paris Air and Flying Academy Miami, which one would you advise one to go for?
For me, I wouldn’t go to either, but it doesn’t really matter what I would choose. I put this video up for people to take the information as a template of what to look for in a flight school so they can choose the right school that suits them.
Subscribed.
I EXPECT you will keep gap times between videos minimal!🤨
😂 Honestly, I haven’t posted in over a year now I think…
@@AndyPateVlogs 😂
Great video! Where you at now?
Thanks Ernie! I took a position with Blue Line to do their marketing, with part time availability as an instructor 😎
Wow, this is a really well-done video! I am very impressed. Thank you.
Thanks!! 😁
You should have 100x more subs at least. Thanks for this awesome hard work man, what an awesome, high-quality breakdown!
Thanks, I really appreciate that!
Thanks for the video you gave me exactly what I was looking for man. 👍🏼
Of course! I'm glad it helped! 😁
Can you do more comparisons
Maybe small Flight schools that are not as expensive?
I mostly made this video for people to have a foundation to research from, essentially taking the categories I mentioned and using that to find what flight school suits them. I would love to do more of these comparison videos but this took A LOT of work to make.
Second note, smaller flight schools aren't always necessarily cheaper, especially when looking at the long term cost. Some even consider the opportunity cost of time missed having a job in the aviation industry because of how much longer it takes other schools to get you your ratings.
Thank you so much for such a quick response.
@@natespielberg88 of course!
Hello Andy I’m currently in the military I’m looking to become a future commercial pilot is there any change on the use of the post 911 or do they still have you finance under a privet lone
Hey Roman! As of now you can’t use the GI Bill for any of the program, but they’re working on it that with the VA. Some of the checkride and written test fees are still reimbursable though (so that’s about $2k you can get there).
Excellent video. I just talked to Salamae bank for 120k loan for ATP. But I might consider Blue line though. I live in Florida so I would have to go up to North Carolina then.
Hold your horses, news of blue line is opening in Winter Haven, FL.
@@RyunDeeSeriously!
Hey Andy, firstly let me say thank you for all the great info you’ve provided in this video. It’s really helped me in planning for the potential transition.
I had a question that has been nagging at me in regards to flight school expenses that I was hoping you might be able to shed more light on. Disclaimer, I’ve been considering Blue Line for my flight school. Is sustenance financed through the school in the form of a meal plan or am I expected to pay for that out of pocket?
glad the video was helpful!! Blue Lines financing covers everything but personal expenses, so it doesn’t cover food, personal bills, etc. The only exception is housing, as financing covers that.
Some save up for any remaining expenses, and some get a personal loan either through another bank or family.
I just made a video for Blue Line (on their TH-cam channel), that THOROUGHLY breaks down flight school costs. There’s even a PDF you can download to use as a checklist that’s in the description of the video. I accumulatively spent days making that video and checklist. Video is called Flight School Costs: Your Ultimate Guide.
Great job showing future pilots how great school can be be and the hard work and financial costs, can be difficult but rewarding. Does Blue Aviation have a equivalent twin plane air time like ATP. And it must be a very good idea to get the extra air time on the twin engine Rating? I hope.
Blue Line’s multi-engine aircraft is the DA42 😁
@@AndyPateVlogs Thank you Andy.
Good analysis. To me ATP is better - no comparison. Thanks.
Appreciate it. There is definitely a comparison though (hence the video 😅). A lot of people have messaged me saying they ended up going to other flight schools other than ATP because they realized that the alternative was better for them due to a multitude of reasons. There’s a lot that goes into choosing a flight school.
I have a bunch of anecdotal engagements/reach-outs from former ATP instructors too that can carry opinionated weight in this message, but that’s hearsay, so I want to tread carefully with providing info like that lol.
Great video! Thank you for sharing your research
Of course! The information seemed so spread out, so figured I would try my best to consolidate it!
Well, where did you finally enroll and what's your status. Since you posted this just as Covid hit, I'm imagining that has affected your timeline?
I mention my choice at the end of the video (and why I chose it), but I went with Blue Line. I have already graduated from the program and now I instruct at the school 😁. COVID didn't really affect my timeline that much and still graduated around 6 months.
@@AndyPateVlogs, Yes I found your Instagram account and I’m getting all caught up. Congrats!!
@@davidoneill4859 Thanks David!
Wow! This was fantastic.....absolutely invaluable. Thank you so much!! Liked and subscribed.
Thanks Mason! I genuinely appreciate it 😁
Thank you so much for these videos they seriously help so much!
Of course! I'm glad it could be helpful! I hated how overwhelming all of the information there is to absorb to figure out what flight school to choose, so I figured I might be able to make it easier for others if I consolidate it into a single video :D
Great informative video, thank you.
I’m glad you enjoyed it!
Is there a follow-up video after graduation?
I've spoken a couple times on my live show about it (it's called Fluffernutter Live and they get uploaded here to TH-cam). I have been trying to create a post graduation video talking about my experience at Blue Line, but being hired on as an instructor here has left me no time to really create content like this video. It took me a REALLY long time to make this comparison, and I'm a bit of a perfectionist when it comes to posting content. 😊
The general consensus is I am really happy I chose Blue Line. It was tough, but once I graduated, it seemed odd that any other flight school lasted any longer than 6 months. If you have any questions, you can message me on Instagram (@AndyPateVlogs).
Hey Andy, great video! Thank you so much for making this. This video was made before Covid so I hope everything went well while you were at Blue Line for training. I have a question for you, so for a person that doesn't know anyone in aviation industry, how can I connect to the pilots to ask for advice?
Uhhh, I hate TH-cam notifications. Sorry for such a late reply. For me it was aviation related Facebook groups and friends of friends type stuff. Almost all of the pilots I talked to were from that!
Hey man, so I’ve always wanted to fly. I have ZERO experience. 30yrs old. I don’t have 80 grand for flight school. Do you know of any places that can help/cover the cost of school.
There are several ways to approach the affordability of flight school:
1. Work On Bankability - This is dependent on your credit score, as well as Debt to Income ratio, but if you work on this and look good in the eyes of lenders, you can get financing to cover the costs of flight school. Example is Blue Line now has financing that covers the ground and flight training, housing, test fees and school supplies. You would just need to have the money for living expenses (food, cell phone bill, etc.)
2. Find flight schools that accept scholarships or financial programs. Typically these programs only cover a portion of the flight school, so you'll want to qualify for as many scholarships or programs as possible.
3. Pay as you go at Mom & Pop flight schools. From my experience, if 1 and 2 don't work, most go this route. They'll go to their local flight school and work out a schedule that works out around their work schedule. This will take the longest (usually 2+ years to get all of the ratings that BL provides), but you will get there without any worries about loans.
4. If you have your bachelors degree (in anything), join the military. That's as free as flight school can get (besides the cost of having to get your bachelors lol).
Appreciate all the info, and man was it a lot of info
No problem!
Nice to meet you at Blue Line today!! Lol!!
Nice to meet you too man! 😁
Heyy im an international student doing my research for an affordable and good flight school with hood instructors in the US and well I saw atp advertised almost everywhere but in doing my research I haven’t heard good reviews tbh in terms of like the work load and some of the flight instructors . So I don’t think I would want to go to atp but I do want to get all my necessary certificates and license to becoming a pilot in a year time for the most but can you tell me something about blue aviation personally you experienced as in the vibe , how everyone treats you , the cost of living and by me being a international student if there are any scholarships so I can reduce the cost of the program or anything.
One more thing I should let you know aswell I literally have no experience flying so if I join a flight school I’ll be starting from 0 , the only thing I did what was apart of aviation was a certificate in aviation technology and now I’m just looking for the right flight school to start my journey of being a pilot 👨🏽✈️
I enjoyed my time at Blue Line! Instructors and fellow students were awesome as we are all in it together, in one of the most stressful training environments for pilots. Most students at Blue Line start with zero experience.
You’d have to talk to a training advisor at Blue Line about being international. That’s its own series of complexities that I am not familiar with.
Thank you. I plan on attending in November, once my credit score is a lot higher. Just don't know if i should go to college or attend blue line
No problem! Most pilots I have talked to have said that it's best to go to a fast track school (like Blue Line) and then do college while you're an instructor making up hours to get to the airlines. That way you're getting into the industry sooner (seniority is everything) and you're knocking out a degree on your path to an aviation career.
@@AndyPateVlogs yes sir. thats what im going to do. im follow your insta as well
@@josephcarter3759 Thanks man! I'd appreciate the follow!
Hey there congrats on the job at Blue Line! I just discovered your page today So far your videos are great. I was wondering how much longer till Blue Line moves to their new location?
Im glad you’re enjoying the videos! As of today, it sounds like we might be moving in on Nov. 1st.
Thanks for making this video
Of course!
I like how they both raise their price in the last 3 years by 20% but i guess the airlines have also increased pay
Pay and bonuses have definitely gone up since this video was posted 😅
That being said, something to consider is this was made pre-COVID (more than three years ago). I assume what the airlines pay carry little weight into their program pricing, and is probably more impacted by rising operational costs of everything due to inflation and how much it is being messed with.
Even so, another perspective to take is they both could technically charge even higher prices, and the ROI is still worth it (especially now that no major US carrier requires a degree anymore, which is even more money saved along the way to the airlines).
Was very helpful and instructive
I'm glad it was helpful Jonathan!
Thank you for this video keep it up!
No problem! I hope it can provide soem level of insight!
The 800 dollars a month for atp is the allowance they give you the extra money on the loan that you get
I'm not sure about what the 500 dollars is for at blue line
@@destinnewlon1957 Hey Destin! This threw me off when I was first doing my research but here is how it is broken down when I spoke with ATP. It’s $800/month to live in student housing. When you go to ATP’s Sallie Mae financing page, you’ll see something there that states an $800/month Living Expense Stipend. All this means is that ATP is allowing you to roll the expense of student housing into your loan if you didn’t want to pay out of pocket or through an entirely separate loan. For BL, the $500/month is for student housing as well, but the option to roll that into your loan is not available. Most students here either have saved the money or have rolled it into a separate personal loan. I hope that makes sense.
@@AndyPateVlogs oh ok I get you im still doing research but I watched your whole video but I dont have an option between those 2 schools because I dont have the means to move so I'm looking into everything I can about ATP
@@destinnewlon1957 That's a message I definitely try to get across to everyone that there isn't one school suited for everyone unfortunately. If it's possible for someone to move, it can be quite difficult to top Blue Line, but when you have to stay where you are, other options have to be considered. I just recommend taking the categories I list in this video and talk to ALL flight schools around you. You'd be surprised what the underdogs can provide to you over bigger national brands.
@@AndyPateVlogs so far haven't found anything else that I like in the area waiting for my cosigner to decide if they're going to help or not
What do you know about CAE in Phoenix az?
Prior to your comment, nothing. Just briefly looking at them, they would have dropped off my list pretty quickly. I don't see anything they provide that other schools couldn't provide at a faster and/or cheaper rate without the sacrifice in quality of training. 56 weeks is too long, and for personal preference, would hate to have wear that uniform in training aircraft lol.
So how would you rate your experience at blue line after completing it.
I’m super happy with Blue Line. You actually end up graduating and wondering why other flight schools take as long as they do 😅
Great!!! Detailed video.. thanks
Thanks man!
Thank you for this❤
No problem! It’s a little old, but the categories can still be applied to find out up to date details 😁
All this is great.. but there's only one location for blue line, and multiple for ATP. Sounds like you're advertising for them really.
Ok
5.5 months seem like a breakneck speed, was it stressful? What is the dropout rate?
It’s weird because once you graduate, you don’t really understand why other flight schools take as long as they do 😅 It was definitely stressful, but also very doable. You just need to be disciplined.
Being that Blue Line has 141 programs, they’re required by the FAA to maintain an 80% pass rate, but last I checked, we’re in the 90 percentile.
Hi Andy amazing job on breaking down the two schools. How has blue line handled during the pandemic? I was reading about atp and heard from others that they were on a hiring freeze for instructors. That was a huge red flag for me as I was on the verge on joining atp and then I came upon your amazing video here about blue line aviation. I was just wondering how has blue line handled it’s pilot and are they still on the 5.5 months of completing the program. Are they still guaranteeing flight instructor?
I'm glad you liked the video! It definitely wasn't easy for Blue Line to get through COVID, but it managed to get through it all. Blue Line pushes completing the program within 6 months, but they shoot to have you done well before then. This buffers for any delays, such as weather. Blue Line doesn't guarantee an instructor position, for the reasons I mentioned in the video. They assess their students for the instructor position prior to hiring, rather than hiring and assessing them after receiving the job. This maintains the quality of instruction that Blue Line puts out. That being said, Blue Line has been hiring non-stop, and we just hired 4 new instructors.
How has your experience been at Blue Line during the pandemic? Did you attend?
I still graduated on time even with weather and COVID delays. I instruct at Blue Line now and it's crazy how efficient Blue Line is with scheduling to keep students on track. I'm definitely glad I chose Blue Line 😊
Question what schools take fasfa for flight training school
You deserve a lot more views and likes
Thanks Emmanuel! I really appreciate that!
Can u tell me which Academy will be better to do pilot training in usa?
I highly recommend watching my ATP vs Blue Line video. It's long, but it will give you all the necessary tools to make sure you choose the best flight school for you. I ended up going to Blue Line and I'm glad I chose them.
Is this possible for an 18 year old fresh out of high school? Obviously with a co signer
It definitely is! If you wanted to go to the airlines, you'd have to wait a little bit as they have a minimum age of 23, but by the time you turned 23, you would have a bunch of experience at such a young age, and the airlines will love that!
@@AndyPateVlogs but like it’s a fast track program so let’s say I finish when I’m 19 would I literally live off of flight instructor salary for 4 yrs
Is that even possible? And I could definitely finish a degree at a community college so maybe I could even go to the majors
@@DaveedNation You would most likely use your instructor time to build up some experience for maybe a year or two, but after that, you could start looking into Part 135 jobs (think private jets) and build some turbine time and experience in a commercial environment.
Great Job 👍
Thanks!
Little late the party but great video! Do you know the minimum age that is required to attend? I am assuming right after high school you can attend but just wondering. Keep up the good content!
Thanks! 😁 You have to be 18 for ATP and Blue Line.
@@AndyPateVlogs thanks for the reply, one last question, do you know if a 529 savings account can be used towards these schools but primarily blue line?
@@vickalus8126 I’m actually not sure. You’d need to talk to one of Blue Line’s training advisors for that.
@@AndyPateVlogs Thanks man, looking forward to more content from you and I’m glad I found your channel! 😀
@@vickalus8126 I’m glad you’re enjoying it! If you have any questions, don’t hesitate to ask 😁
ATP is an over priced pilot mill that teaches you just enough to pass the tests and check rides and that’s it, you can get better experience for less money by avoiding ATP.
Very informative, thanks
Make a decision on what school you want to go to yet? 😉😂😂
Andy Pate ya I think so😂 at least I hope so, because Blueline is stuck with me ether way😂
i would like to go to blue line but im not credible i cant secure any loans
totally irrelevant but your guitar pick necklace is pretty cool brotha. lol
Thanks man! It's made of copper and I had my logo engraved on the front, and a quote on the back 😁 I'm pretty sure I got it made on Etsy like years ago!
Hi I’m in high school right now what school do you think is easier to get into straight out of high school
What do you mean by easier?
Do either school have turbine training?
No, typically turbine experience comes after flight school, usually at a non-121 operation.
Great video
Thanks!! 😁
Did you ever figure out what GI Bill covers in blue line
I talked to the blue line early December, just to give you an idea in my situation I only have 2 months left of the post 9/11 benefits because I have a MS degree in IT. Basically they say depends on the amount of benefits you have, so for me they say I have roughly 14K to cover. In your situation, It can be substantially more but it won't cover the entire program only a portion of it more than likely. The good thing is that they help you out with the housing and they waive some fees to have you on board with them. Again you have to talk and negotiate with them.
The reason I didn't go with them is because the loan company they want me to start making payments while taking classes and that was deal breaker for me. I qualified for an 8.99 interest with automatic payment they gave me 8.75 for the 84 months. In the end, they are making roughly 20k to 30k in interest on top of the 60k tuition. So the best way to afford flight school is to save for at least 2 or 3 years so you can be more prepared financially and not drown into debt. Hopefully this helps to give you an idea.
Sorry for the late reply. I'm having to constantly go back on all the comments of all of my videos to see if I have received any new comments 😒. TH-cam notifications are horrible.
As for the GI Bill thing, this is a video that is at the top of my list, but I wanted to wait to see how the VA would actually handle my claim for reimbursement, which has yet to be completed (due to the VA, not Blue Line). The problem with this subject is it is dependent on so many variables (i.e. Were you active, reserve or guard, how long did you serve, do you have Post 9/11 or Montgomery, etc.). Let's break this down into two separate subjects here that the GI Bill is split into:
CHECKRIDE AND TEST FEES
Any fees regarding Checkride fees and Knowledge Test fees are done by the individual, not Blue Line. I actually have a written out process for how to go about this, but I am still experimenting with the VA on this, as I have only received a portion of my test fees back so far. The VA seems to have "lost" my other reimbursement claims for checkride fees and test fees, so those were re-submitted and now it's a waiting game.
PROGRAM REIMBURSEMENT
Receiving reimbursement for the program is done by Blue Line. The $14k that Luis mentions above is the max that the VA will cover for any individual seeking reimbursement through the GI Bill, but once again, this is very dependent on each person and their status with GI Bill reimbursement. Example would be that because I was Air Force Reserve, and because I use Post 9/11, I can only receive up to 60% of that ~$14k back supposedly. As to how much of the program is covered, the VA will only cover Part 141 courses, which in this case would be the Instrument and Commercial portion of the program. CFI, CFII, CMEL and MEI are all Part 61, so those programs aren't reimbursable. Private is 141, but the VA won't reimburse for a Private Pilot License. I hope this answers your question, and I intend to post a video once I'm 100% sure how the VA actually handles reimbursing 141 schools based on my own experience.
Side note: Due to COVID, the VA is severely understaffed in the department that does reimbursements, so this is why there is such a wait for reimbursement (or proper guidance on how they handle reimbursement).
Killing it!!
Thanks Brad!
Man thanks for all the research but I think it should be a little les bias
No problem! As for any bias, I reference you to my comments found at the 1:30 - 1:48 timestamps.
I live 20 minutes from blue line you should hit me up I have some questions about what you have experienced with blue line
You’re more than welcome to message me on Instagram 😁 (@AndyPateVlogs)
So now that you've gone through the program, was 5.5 months ever really realistic? What should students really expect when choosing a flight school, especially with financing and income potential to consider?
I graduated in 6 months, and that was with COVID hitting right at the beginning of the program. We just had a student complete the entire program in 5 months, but we also had a student graduate in 7 months. It’s definitely possible to finish in 5.5 months, and usually comes down to the students commitment.
As for your 2nd question, I don’t completely understand it. Are you still talking about the timeline or a macro perspective about flight school?
@@AndyPateVlogs Mostly timeline. The longer the program, the more it will cost in some programs.
So what certs did you get in those 6 months? Was that just to CFI or CFI-I or MEI or...? I understand that ATP will get you all the way through ATP-R, but I don't think they're the right fit for me, either.
You'll receive PPL, IFR, CSEL, CFI, CFII, CMEL and MEI. The initial cost of ATP's program doesn't include taking you to the ATP certificate (and restricted is only if it is applicable to you). They'll provide guidance on receiving the ATP certificate, but it is a separate cost, as it would be through most flight schools (I say most flight schools instead of all because I'm not sure if there are any flight schools out there that also include it into the initial cost of training).
@@AndyPateVlogs WOW you did all that in 6 months! You beast!
Thanks for the truly excellent advice. If only there was a Blue Line near me... Airlines have alliances. Maybe flight schools could band together so students have a more uniform idea of what to expect. Just a thought.