I would have agreed with pokkes take IF he said what HOYOVERSE can do to solve the issue, people can spout buzzwords like “skill issue” and “play better” or “pull e1 robin bro” but that does nothing to solve the actual issue of powercreep. At the end of the day, HOYO made this problem, its on them to solve it. People have already brought up suggestions like buff old units, add more interesting mechanics instead of hp, and things like that. Also if he worded the tweet much better because it reads like hes blaming the consumer instead of the company for an issue created by the company. Just hope the game I loved turns things around in 3.x on.
No you're actually so right for that! It is NOT solely the players fault. At the end of the day, Hoyoverse is a company and they are the ones creating this issue in the first place!! I agree with you completely. I think a lot of people want to ONLY blame Hoyoverse while they refuse to even read what characters do. That's where MY personal issue lies and what I think Mr. Pokke meant to say. That, even though this issue exists, you can work around it, not that the player is dumb and greedy for not understanding. Fingers crossed that the balance improves!!!
I think the fact that this kind of discussion is even being held is already an automatic loss for the community and a win for Hoyo. Why are things like pulling strategy, archetype coverage and vertical investment at the forefront of the discussion of power creep of all things, along with calling players dumb and greedy? Everyone is literally being duped right in front of their faces by Hoyo and instead of directly calling them out and stopping there, people are speaking up in their defense, pointing fingers at each other and trying to find problems everywhere except the origin. When it's not just the "dumb and greedy players" who are hurt by this powercreep and rampant HP inflation, but even CCs and hardcore players like Mr. Pokke himself. Does anyone remember the state of MoC and content creation around the game before 2.0? Because I vividly remember watching dozens of various creators, both big and small, making all kinds of videos of fun team comps, strategies, combos, challenges, etc. Nowadays, the majority of that type of content is either dead, transformed into cookie-cutter copy guides (because every single character is already pre-made with a team in mind, usually consisting of 3 other limited 5-stars), or either boring (if the character in question is being catered to by the game mode to the point the whole challenge aspect is trivialized and gone) or frustrating (if the character isn't matching the strict requirements of the game mode and is just there as a "downgrade of X character"). This is not without exception, of course, but I think it is beyond doubt that this aspect of the game has changed for the worse, and it's not only people who can't clear endgame among the affected, but the entire playerbase. I think that a discussion of this type is definitely something that can be had, just not in the framework of "yeah, powercreep isn't real, you're just dumb". I think nobody would disagree with Mr. Pokke if he instead just said "I think even F2P players can easily clear all endgame if they plan their investment and play well". But then he wouldn't be able to farm as much drama/engagement, so I guess he got what he wanted in the end.
@@MeneTekelFares Thank you for the very in-depth comment! I think you are very much so correct about everything. Especially the fact that Mr. Pokke certainly phrased his point in perhaps the worst way possible.orignally. No player should ever be blamed or forced to feel bad because they "didn't pull right." Star Rail has 100% been ramping up in difficulty and sadly that original fun of clearing with fun team comps is kinda dying. I do try to combat this by mixing meta with characters I enjoy, but sadly it doesn't always work. I really tried to make this video by not blaming anyone and trying to give my own view on Mr. Pokke's point without being so (respectfully) drama farming. Attacking players is never the right answer while HoyoVerse gets off scott free.
I agree bro I’ve been able to clear everything in the endgame since the game came out and I only spend lightly I was f2p at first and just saved and invested in smart thing before the community realized they were good poeple don’t read so they get lost when pulling or building
It happens in EVERY gacha game but community engagement with it has only ever been a big problem in HSR. HP inflation has been thrown around a lot but there are so many nuances that are being skipped just to prove a point or attack a company cause Hoyo bad. Even now people are saying that this patch MoC is easier even though the HP went up. Is every patch meant to cater to your single target Feixao? Why ever pull a unit or think about building teams to tackle different scenarios or do we want easy END game like Abyss?
@@deviant315l6 EXACTLY! Why should one single team work perfectly in all content forever. That wouldn't really be fun. It sucks to not use your favorites forever, but the game would become so stale if it was like that.
@@deviant315l6 But the problem is the end game is NOT getting more difficult over time. I wouldn't have a problem with a more difficult end game, but that's clearly not the case. The only thing that changed is the requirement for the current "on banner" unit becoming more and more strict. The Herta can literally 0-cycle current (and next) MoC in a 1-cost team, where's difficulty in that? And it doesn't even feel good to build different teams, because this game no longer has archetypes, it only has specific character-focused teams. There's no FuA, Hypercarry or Break, as many would think. There is a Robin Feixiao team, there is a Fugue Lingsha team, etc. And many of the endgame nodes are also turning away from encouraging you to play an archetype and more towards just 1 currently promoted unit. Again, going back, I can remember MoC buffs that would give buffs to specific paths, like giving a 100% action advance to a character of a specific path at the start of every cycle. So that you could make use of it on any destruction carry that you might want to build a team around, if the buffs are for destruction characters during current MoC reset. But what's the current state of modes like Apoc Shadow? The boss mechanics and the blessings are layered in such a way, that there's literally only 1 character that matches all of the requirements, to the point where they might as well just give the rewards right away as soon as you pull the new character, without having to play them, since you can clear it on auto with them anyway.
Really? So he didnt word it that way because of his inherent superiority complex and elitism? Oh phewh, he’s a good innocent baby boo. It’s not as if he had once acted kind and handled a bad situation perfectly, only to immediately turn around the moment the other person’s back was turned and trash him, as though he hadn’t been part of the mess himself-right? Phew, glad to hear from his meatrider himself that he is still a living saint.
@@Tiku- I don't honestly know THAT much about Mr. Pokke to even know what drama you're talking about. I can't say I fully agree with everything Pokke has done, but in this situation, I liked his views on powercreep. I like his views on HSR and don't know him as a person.
Two golden advices for gacha players: 1. You don't need every single character to clear endgame contents. 2. In endgame contents, a clear is a clear, no matter the methods and however much retries needed in the process.
Very good advice! I think for some reason, players think that they NEED every character and need to clear in as little cycles as possible. The truth is though... like you said, a clear is a clear.
Think majority agree that powercreep exist in HSR it was pretty obvious and can be felt especially in the DPS tag. The issue with his tweet like others mentioned is how poorly the tweet is phrased. Some CCs just wanted him to acknowledge that his tweet was poorly phrased which i think he did but it was too late anyways to change it. His whole reasoning why he made that post. Is because he got annoyed with a specific type of players, which are the greedy and stupid. These are players that spent all their pulls on random units and expect that a poorly invested unit/team will just carry them forever. But this doesn't change the fact that the game's balance is shit. If you care about the longevity of the unit don't pull for DPS if you already have one or two, since they will get powercreep so easily and instead go for supports. But before all that just wait for more info to come by from others before pulling on those units. This is more for players in the hardcore/meta and all about fully clearing the endgame. If you're a casual/waifu collector then pull whoever you want since in the end of the day you probably don't care that much on fully clearing endgame. If you do then you're not part of this player type.
@@BlaD-Arc That's very very fair. Most of not all of this "drama" stems from Mr. Pokke's poorly phrased tweet. I did however, see a lot of CCs then start to then start saying that F2Ps cannot expect to "pull properly" or that powercreep IS too hard to be dealt with, so I just wanted to give my own thoughts!
I think the real problem is that hsr (hoyo) is 'forcing' you to always pull for the new characters you like them or not cuz other way you will struggle with endgame content. I know this is a gacha game and 'planning' your pulls is the way to go but it makes the game restrictive. I pulled DHIL in his rerun and pulled for Sparkle for him, then I pulled Acheron in her rerun cuz she's strong but nowadays my DHIL makes nothing in the highest difficulty. Now I need a new second 'strong' dps 'again' so I pulled Sunday (even if I don't like him) cuz I'm 'planning' to pull for the new best dps (castorice I guess) BUT I have to skip characters that I was waiting for. In other gacha games like in Fate or even Genshin, you can use all the characters you have to complete the endgame content, sure, you really need to build them correctly and make the effort but c'mon! In Genshin you can use a full well invested 4 star team for the abysm but I can't use my DHIL anymore... It's like someone said 'in hsr you should never pull for a rerun, just pull for the new thing if you want to invest properly' that's what's really sad
I feel you. I understand how and why you feel that way. Characters, especially DPS are the worst cases due to being powercrept. I feel the same with Imibibitor. Although still try to make him work endgame. Sparkle sadly just doesn't cut for him anymore. Luckily, if you end up ever getting Sunday's LC, he actually works better for Dan Heng IL. It does suck to always look forward to the new shiny thing and leave your favorite behind, but you can still find ways to make it work! Hopefully you end up enjoying the new characters and they last longer than units like Imbibitor though!
good video, i started making a f2p account on 1.6 and started building it on 2.0 to see how fast i could clear and got full stars on all content on 2.1, havent slipped since until only one pure fiction (i dont remember which but around 2.4 - 2.5) which made me realize i shouldve pulled robin and a limited erudition (the herta soon). i lost like one third of a pull and didnt lose sleep over it. honestly my stance comes from an experience of knowing that these games are ultra predatory so i take it as a challenge to clear without spending and feel achieved when doing so, i dont expect handouts because gachas giving handouts means those handouts arent to be generous but to make commodities less valuable (hi ratio), but i guess not many think of it that way.
First of all, I LOVE YOUR CONTENT WAVEMAN!! THANK YOU FOR COMMENTING AHHH Ahem, I completely understand your stance though. These games ARE predatory and I also feel achieved when I "beat" the system. I think a lot of people just want HSR to become more friendly and less predatory towards those F2P players, which I totally get.
@@GyozaStarRail thanks! also i agree, my apathetic stance feels warm that people still want to fight this sort of systematic issues, but as someone that did learn about games and how blatantly psychologically engineered the modern gaming landscape is throughout the years for capital, i cant stop but feel like an old man shouting at the clouds for people realizing how long this has been going on. and how many times its been attempted to change but has never worked, for gachas especially and even hoyo themselves. it feels so frustrating to talk about. its mostly the reason why i can never recommend anyone hsr until it stops being a gacha, no matter how generous they are its a genre built on predation. indie games arent designed for capital as much as corporations and thats the best i could give now at this point.
One thing I always think about when it comes to discussions about powercreep, I think of my own account. I am a Dr Ratio fan. I prefarmed for him, saved up tons of fuel to spam the new Penacony domain to farm his BIS relics right away, and when I learned he was going to be given away for free... I used up my saved pulls to get his signature lightcone, plus his first eidolon. And all of that, just because I really liked him. Now, one thing about my Ratio is that, he is not as good as he could be. I do have an E2S1 Aventurine supporting him (big fan of him as well, I skipped two patches for that) to apply three debuffs on enemies, but otherwise? No Robin, no Topaz (I haven't finished building Moze but I'm working on that). My Ratio team has been, consistently, Aventurine + E6 tingyun + E0S0 Silver Wolf. Yes, Silver Wolf. That other "dead/useless" character no one recommends. I got her on release by accident. And, what does this all get me? My Ratio does between 80 to 100k every follow up attack. Compare that to an all E0 team with Robin and Topaz? I'm doing considerably less damage. A f2p team with all the best characters can pull 100-120k on each FUA from Ratio. I'm doing less damage than f2p players that just decided to spend horizontally. And, keep in mind, Ratio has been considerably outdone by Feixiao in today's meta (and I have not pulled for Feixiao). Now, that may sound bad, but I would also like to point out another important thing. My Ratio team has consistently, and without much struggle mind you, pulled its weight on both MOC and ApoSha since I finished setting it up. No more than 4-5 cycles in MOC, no less than 3.3k points in ApoSha (and this is in setups where the enemies don't have weakness to imaginary, mind you, because in those, I clear MOC in 1 cycle and Aposha with 3.6 points). So like. Yeah I can fully relate to the complaints. I can't use Yinyue-jun to clear MOC for fun nowadays, especially because I don't have, or ever plan on having Sparkle. I can't use Kafka outside SimUni because I don't plan on getting a Black Swan. I can understand why people complain they struggle using Blade nowadays. But like. I feel like, the point of "power creep is only as real as you let it be" rings very true.
Consistency is key honestly. Even if your account, with a Ratio that isn't the best compared to F2P accounts with Feixiao, it is still very important and impressive that you ARE able to clear! That is the point and I'm glad your account is a good example! You made good choices and (even though it's not a 0 cycle) you can clear all that you need to! Yeah, it really sucks that you can't use Imbibitor for clears, but hey, maybe one day. I'm glad to see other people with good examples of the powercreep problem! Thank you for sharing!
Hi also a waifu/husbando F2P player, but with crazy luck XD While yes I can do MoC and all endgame content with 11-12 stars almost every cycle and also act like you in some ways (didn't like Robin, doesn't have her and use Yukong instead for Feixiao) I think what mrPokke doesn't get is that that kind of mentality isn't fun for many people, people may not like Sparkle but every yt video will say she'd a must pull to increase the power of your DPS just so this patch Sunday appears and everyone says Sparkle is no longer useful, that's what people are annoyed and don't like Also yeah, the problem with Pokke and many nom F2P players as you say is that they don't get the can't get eidolons and 80% of LCs, so many people won't trust them cuz they don't get your management issues fully
I started this game on 2.4, didn't know a single thing, but the more I progress the more I realize the mistakes that I made especially the reckless pullings that I did. I regretted pulling alot of LC, because all the jades I wasted there could've been used to get a character instead(even if I lose, it's still a character), I'm aware how strong LC are, just saying that instead of getting a LC, if there's an alternative then it's probably better to go for that. At 2.6 I finally decided to start over, but this time I'm prepared, with my current account only having Sunday and Aventurine. Getting Herta and Castorice as my only 2 DPS for 3.x and mostly prioritize getting supports. It will take me a long while to clear endgames, but it's still worth it especially now that I have planned everything. As a F2P I really don't expect to clear everything, and I'm fine with that.
Yeah. Many content creators always showcase characters with their signatures, and many people just think that it's the right way to go, but early on, more characters is just more important! It sounds like your new account is stacking up to be something amazing! Take your time and enjoy the game and the content you can clear! MOC 11 and 12 should be seen as just bonus content for extra rewards for those who want to invest a ton of time into the game! Good luck!
As I f2p I disagree with vertical investment point. Particularly vertical investments in supports. As f2p I don’t have many dps’s the reason being is I used those pulls to get Robin e1 and Fugue e1 who allows my firefly team and Feixiao team to steam roll a lot of the content. And these eidolons on Robin and fugue will last me a long time. If a new follow up dps comes out who I like. They are already super charged by Robin. I do agree get the eidolons on rerun is the way just to see if your supports will last the test of time
Yeah I see what you mean! Both vertical and horizontal investment are important. I more so meant that you shouldn't spread yourself too thin. I should've worded that better instead of just saying "never get eidolons" because I literally get some occasionally.
I found a really interesting comment in psychology where we associate achievements with self worth & i thought it could apply here Sometimes we just need to chill with our expectations and accept reality that maybe our units for now aren't built properly and over time we strive to improve it but this is just my two cents Btw, nice work with the channel dude. I've been slacking too much and with this much heat on HSR i need to step it up
Yeah exactly. Not like the player is "bad at the game" or that HoyoVerse isn't a predatory company. It's just that perhaps you have to accept that your units aren't as built as needed right now. People tend to want to deflect and not really accept that. It really isn't a big deal at all! Just take some time and build up! Also thank you! Honestly right now is a great time to make an HSR video with all the drama and 3.0 on the horizon haha. Hopefully you make some more content! I'd love to see it!
Totally agree with you bud! I'm a day 1 F2P with E2 Silverwolf... I'm convinced she might be the least useful E2 character in the game. And of course I pulled E0 Seele, E1S1 Sparkle and E1S1 Fu Xuan as well to try to live the mono quantum dream. This team is functionally unplayable for me in the current endgame modes. Despite this I still clear everything! If I can still full clear endgame modes after spending effectively 10 limited characters worth of pulls for a team that doesn't work... well I honestly have no clue what other people are doing that makes it so they can't even clear endgame content.
Ooooh! I love the mono-quantum lineup! Glad you're still getting use out of it now! Good job for still being able to clear with that team! Some people just like to complain even when they have no idea what is going on.
What people don't say, is to build Eagle sets, on your debuffers, on most of your supports, and on most of your DPS, the easier a character can get their ult up, the better value the Eagle set has. Why? Because Action Advance is the thing that breaks the game. Eagle set Feixiao with a FuA comp? She gets 4-5 turns in the first cycle. Eagle Set Pela? She gets an extra turn every cycle. Gallagher? Get him to 143~ SPD and use Multiplication? MF gets so many turns you might as well call him Bearded Seele. HMC with DDD and Eagle set? Action Advance is the name of the game.
Mhm! Eagle set is AMAZING. For debuffers, it allows uptime to be better and Star Rail is a turn based game. The more turns you take, the better off you'll be!
I remember getting Feixiao when she released... I didnt know much about builds back then so I just plopped whatever set I had available on her. She could clear MoC 11 easily. Now, with like 65/160 crit ratio, I struggle to even beat Cocolia in MoC 10 WITH premium supports like Sunday, Aven and Topaz for stacks. (I didnt get robin) Powercreep is scary (for my wallet). Anyway great vid Gyoza!
"65/160 crit ratio" are you even trying. LOL. just farm better relics, no matter how many new characters you get, but if you don't know how to properly build them, you won't survive powercreep. Well built teams > new meta unit.
"If you're a waifu/husbando collector you can't expect to clear all the content", you people act like Moses came down the mountain with the "Stone Slabs of Game Design" and God decided that's how things work, and it's not just a lazy dev studio trying to milk more money out of the whales while making the experience worse for everyone else.
@@ogcipher4967 I know where you're coming from! However I also talk about how you actually kinda clear content by pulling who you want! HSR is a team building game, so hypothetically, if you didn't like any of the healers/tanks, you couldn't clear. All of these is only my opinion and how I see the game! Nothing is for a matter of a fact or anything! All that said, it is 100% the company that is making the game worse! Like honestly, you can hardly blame the consumer. I was just saying that you CAN work around the powercreep and unfair balancing!
Us CHAD Boothill pickers are truly men going their own way of star rail. /s All jokes aside, its a cathartic sort of feeling now hearing the Firefly mains, the same people who said Boothill gets powercreep in 3 weeks, now struggle with content. While my E0S0 Boothill is still 2 or even 1 cycling MOC12 floors with 40% physical resist.
@@GyozaStarRail Also man, there's a section where you mention pulling Robin and not using her. I feel that one thousand percent. When she got her 2.5 rerun, pretty much all my friends were rolling for her and that kinda goaded me into doing so. Looking back, I should stayed strong. Because where the hell is Robin gonna go in E0S1 Acheron and E0S0 Boothill? No where, that's where, and she's been practically benched for me since then.
Ngl I wasn't struggling myself this MoC with her so I'm surprised to hear that they did tbh. But ngl Boothill mains and Firefly mains been in this perpetual state of hating each other ever since her beta lmao. And boothill has in my opinion never been bad, he definitely dies in speed when dealing with AOE situations or dealing with enemies who share health bars making him unable to proc passive. But Man will always be an amazing boss slayer until another break unit specifically powercreeps him like Firefly will deal with. Also I can't say this MoC + Fugue didn't scream Boothill lmao. But we can all agree, that the one who got powercrept and shafted was Rappa. Now that Fugue came out, Lingsha is now her rival lmao in aoe and superior in team building since she is the sustain so she can run a team of supports without worrying about them dying.
After a couple patch it’s clear that Boothill have higher cap while FF have higher floor and way more braindead to play. That’s why FF usage is so high but have lower average cycle clear. I’m firefly main and I never play her on manual 😂
It's really funny to me that Rappa and Lingsha are competitors instead of anyone else. Lingsha is just that insane. Also yeah, this MoC is not even remotely tuned to Boothill. The trotters are nice early on to get pocket trickshot stacks, but other than that, they can be ignored due to Boothill's single target damage being wasted on trotters (even though they hit both bosses).
Tbh idc about powercreept if only the pace is slower but man this pacing is a bit fast ngl .. let's say seele she is really bad .. people say pull for robin and sunday ... Sure they are broken support but that does not fix seele problem being bad in the first place and also it does not fix support that is bad in the first place like yukong .. if the pacing were slower than this problem will take like 4 years to notice or more .. at least making f2p team worth to build than just needing to pull meta just to barely clears a 3 star
u opinion is really great. i agree with all of that. with right planing on pulling use stamina and game knowledge it enough to clear end game. even u can't clear this time just try next time don't force u self to pull meta character. it a real trap as f2p (or even BP+welkin) not enough to pull every character. dont jump into hype train or some Tierlist to pull character it depend on u account too. i really hate when see CC overreact on powercreep topic. it make ppl blame powercreep for it without try to looking other problem. i also skip Sunday i dont think he is that good for my account cuz he can't pull Robin. Bronya or Tingyun with Robin combo is good enough for me.and i dont have jingyuan. so i dont wanna pull him just because future Remembrance character. if i really want him. i just wait for rerun.
3.27% rate up luck as F2P here as well... I absolutely feel you, hopefully we will get better in 3.0+ I did this MoC in 7 cycles with Hypercarry Serval 1st side and Fugueless Boothill 2nd side. You just need to know what you are doing and you can clear anything.
Man... nice to see another person suffering with me. That...sounds bad haha. Good that we're not alone. Also nice job on those clears! Love that use of Serval!
Im sorry but what is this stupid argument? "Powercreep doesn't exist... just pull better"??? What? And then everyone saying yea this character got powercrept that character got powercrept... but guys powercreep doesnt exist only if you are stupid and didnt save to pull for the latest meta characters! What is going on?
I don't think that's the argument anyone is making. It's not that powercreep doesn't exist. It certainly does. The point is that it IS real, but you can work around it. In fact, you don't even need to pull for meta.
Wow, it's almost like you took the words right out of my mouth at the beginning there as I'm made the same arguments and comments in other hsr yt vids discussing the topic, ty good sir!
When it comes to powercreep we gotta remember different gachas have different power creep ex: i play dragonballl legends and characters can gwt power creep manly cause of hold they are but they zenkai awaken them to update there kit stats making them more modern after they release or they fumble the bag there have been moments like that. Star rails power creep is very interesting cause harmony in my opinion can never get power creep at least until we get the one that just does every support buff in the game wheres dps characters dont really get powercrep they just need that one character to boost them ex: jing yuan with sunday buff but characters like blade need potentially both a new buff character for them and or a specific relic set specifically to help them
I'm a husbando puller. I got Jiaoqiu and Aventurine... I pulled Acheron just to complete a team... no LC. You can't expect to clear endgame right of the bat. You need investment of time
@GyozaStarRail For a long time, I always lacked that last star from the endgame contents, but I farmed and grinded to push that last bit. Funny enough, it's sometimes the unusual team combo that will make it work.
This discussion is cropping up a lot lately and I think part of the issue is how people perceive "power creep". I'm not going to say the game doesn't have any that's just objectively untrue, but even before my premium teams were built I never really struggled to clear endgame modes once I was properly ready to tackle them. But I've never and most likely never will 0 cycle, because so long as I clear within the reward requirements I'm good. However the majority of the community these days sees 0 cycles as some sort of baseline of viability not the challenge it's supposed to be. To those ppl, a simple hp inflation that increases the clear by couple of cycles is cause for the most obnoxious doom posting imaginable. Another thing is that most people just expect to brute force endgame once they have a team ready to go, but neglect the fact the rotational power ups are a big part of the balancing on these modes. As a personal anectode, last dot pf I could barely hit 50k because I have none of the desired units, but once I tweaked my break team slightly by swapping some lc and relics around while utilising the buff I was able to get61k on the 2nd try, which was rewarding in itself because I felt like I overcame a challenge.
Yeah! The rotation of metas is obviously a little awkward, but it IS a core aspect of HSR whether people want to acknowledge that or not. Sometimes, follow up just won't hit the same, but sometimes, it'll go crazy. I also agree that is a bit silly that the community has seemed to turn to the idea that 0 cycles are the "standard" or what a character should be doing.
aside from MoC, PF, and AS the meta doesn't affect anything since story and event quest is easily doable and with a lot of added mechanics to make it more fun than difficult. a friend quit his day1 acc after black swan and give it to his bro who just use it to play with char that he doesn't have in his own acc(the jingliu is very good) and maintain it minimally. later the friend wanted to return so he returned it with sunday and his lc as the only new char and saved up 350 pulls. i dare say this is a great investment to 3.0 and just prove how the meta doesn't really matter due to how little it gives in return.
Yeah. People who want to just play for fun and pull who they want have no reason to ever invest in meta and full clear endgame. The reward for investment is just not worth it.
Man I remember being excited for MoC resetting because more stellar jades yk, but no, I get met with this insane powercreep which is just stupid HP inflation again. I haven't even cleared Floor 12 yet despite having all the current "meta" units (Feixiao, Robin, Topaz, Firefly, Ruan Mei, Lingsha) because I'm just so done with how it is right now. I was frustrated that day so I'll probably go back again and clear it soon even if it takes me 10 cycles, I don't really care, last MoC was like that for me too. I never invested in any eidolons but I did pull for a few signature lightcones. I'm also one of the few players who didn't pull for like any Nihility unit, I don't own a single limited Nihility character including Acheron and I see every team comp uses her nowadays. I know that, with the characters I own, I have the right teams to clear content, but I'm still here struggling to beat MoC (thanks HP inflation), just barely beat AS 4, and I can't even clear Pure Fiction 4 with 3 stars. It's probably my relics ngl, but I'm tired of farming them and getting nothing, thank goodness 3.0 is going to help with that by letting you reroll enhanced relics and select substats too. But yeah. Powercreep is an issue. For everybody. And I hope they fix this because making content "harder" by adding either more RNG or continously increasing HP is just making it a "who can deal more damage" contest and the point of endgame is to create content that's challenging yes, but also rewarding at the same time so you feel like the effort you put in was all worth it. But I just don't see it right now.
I mean the content last patch was ridiculously easy for Feixiao. I see some players with better teams struggling to clear so I can only imagine it’s due to poor gearing decisions. I don’t particularly enjoy more HP but the game would be kind of bland without it.
I honestly agree with your assesment, overall I hate the direction the game is going but its not impossible to deal with I have completely abyssmal luck late late 70s most of the time an a 15% 50/50 win rate and am mostly a husbando puller and im clearing most endgame content and only losing 80 jades around half the time which is manageable especially since the newest character who i actually use in my e2s1 jiaoqui, heck I think it would be completely possible for me to win if it wasn't for me completely bricking myself because i refuse to play or pull for break
Thank you and I'm glad you agree! I don't blame you at all for not being into break at all! Heck, I honestly still don't really care for it. I just love Boothill (the #1 Husbando). You are working your way up to clearing the endgame though! So good luck and I hope your pulls go well!
Damage Dealer unit in HSR get powercrepted when their first rerun held is so real. You can like 0 cycle in a patches they released, and then they coughed by trying to 3 cycle later.
I personally don't have problem with people being stupid with their shitty takes, heck I'm glad now that many are taking part in this discussion. What bugs me the most is that Pokke willingly pointed his fingers towards the players, but isn't real enough to call out Hoyo for their poor balancing, that's kinda insane to me. Oh your waifu can't clear? Then YOU, the players, are greedy, nope not the devs, not the company with their shitty predatory practice. I get that it doesn't really matter as long as F2p can still clear endgame, and that it wasn't for cassual to begin with. But when someone complains about the powercreep issue, the first thing he blamed is the players, the "stupid and greedy" people who falled for the FOMO he himself was paid to fuel, how ironic.
YES. That is a very good point. I agree with what he said but not HOW he said it. Creating a tweet with such a hostile and rude wording really really put people off. I don't even blame them. Hoyoverse is a company that makes gacha games, they CAN give more, and yet they don't. Greed is present. That being said, there is still a bit of greed amongst the players. Not in a serious sense, like how companies can genuinely be greedy, but just with how people manage their resources in game. I'm honestly really glad you bring up Pokke's fault in this. I definitely should've mentioned something about that in the video, but I was so focused on the idea of powercreep haha.
When will people finally understand that the issue is not in new players wanting to clear in 2 weeks or that a character doesn't 0 cycle anymore. This is a gatcha game, you PAY for these units, and I feels HORRIBLE when this unit starts feeling like sh1t after 2 patches. THIS IS NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE. THAT IS THE ISSUE OF POWERCREEP. And what does Pokke say? "Just buy something else for the team". Yeah, just spend more money, forehead. Buy something else for your Jungliu. Oh, you main Blade?... let's hope he gets something I guess?
I understand how you feel, but characters like Imbibtior, Jingliu, and other characters are still able to clear content F2P. Even Blade is if you really hyper invest into him and his teammates. No money needed. It IS stupid that we have to deal with old units falling out of favor. Paying can only get you so far (unless you get like E5S5 lol). The game is predatory. I don't think (or I hope) nobody is debating that. The real issue is that people CAN and do still clear with old characters, some people just don't want to invest in new stuff for their old units. It sucks but sadly it's a gacha game. Hoyo is problematic, but players like to take all the blame off of themselves. It's MOSTLY not the players fault, and players have to really try and work hard to get around powercreep.
@@GyozaStarRail I shouldn't get "managable at best" for 200 dollars. "They can clear f2p" bullcrap, they are clearing with the power of 100s retries by the skin of their teeth and it's horrible. And of this sh1t keeps going, one day Blade, Jingliu and Seele won't be even 7 cycling, because new units get better and better scaling and the enemies growing more and more HP because that's the only way Hoyo can think of to prevent new units from one-shotting everything with a press of an E skill. The blame is FULLY on Hoyoverse. The only players I can blame are those players who argue that the powercreep isn't an issue, cuz they are enabling the company to keep going.
@@ryzhik9608 I mean, it's not even by the skin of their teeth though! People have been able to clear content in... much much less tries than that. You can watch streams of F2Ps first attempts, heck, even my videos. New characters come out that buff older characters (like Sunday and Jing Yuan). There are ways to combat the powercreep in the game. If you wait and save instead of pulling for every new character, old characters can be buffed too. The argument is not that HoyoVerse is all good. The company is very much not all good. It's that though times may be tough, it isn't over if you play your hand right. It's more so to give hope because HoyoVerse sure as hell isn't going to help us.
@@GyozaStarRail Jingyuan is a happy accident. He had a mechanic to buff. Everyone else aside from Blade is too straightforward as a dps to buff. We don't have a good roadmap in this game for us to "wait and save". We don't know who is running next, and the only official way for us to learn is to watch a stream that happens like 11 days before the patch.
@@ryzhik9608 I wont lie that Jing Yuan got really lucky. The thing is that players CAN just wait and save. It sucks missing patches, but MOC 11 and 12 are supposed to very "hard" (artificially inflated for whales). You miss out on some jades, but overall still get alot from MOC 1-10. I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I find Hoyos practices greedy, I'm not giving them money or defending them, but just offering what you CAN do.
i played as hard of a meta slave as I could before I quit star rail and I still got cucked. I initially wanted to go the fun route and pull for Jing Yuan because he was cool but when I saw how hard Acheron powercrept him I just decided to get her e2s1 and paired her with sparkle, pela. Right after I got e1s1 Jingliu on her rerun which at the time was still considered to be the second best dps in the game. It did not last more than like 1-2 MOCS (and at the time apocolopytic shadow got introduced), where my team started to struggle hard. Not only was Jingliu struggling even with e0s1 Ruan mei and Ice Weakness on the other side, my e2 acheron started taking 2-3 cycles to finish out her side which was insane considering how much I invested into her. I tried to play smart and I was already on the brink of not being able to clear, and I had to skip break because I was low on pulls and I wasn't a fan of firefly. Unlucky me because it turns out they were HARD HARD meta. I still managed to clear Apoc but it was absolutely miserable. I benched my e1s1 Jingliu who I had months of saving accumulated for in the span of 2 miserable months. I quit shortly after and don't plan on coming back.
I don't blame you! I think of ton of people are forgetting that Jingliu WAS good for a very long time. It really really sucks that the moment you invested into her is when she actually started to decline. (Not THAT very moment, but the next patches after that.) I don't blame you for quitting after that.
honestly this current moc is the first ever full clear ive done ever since i started in 2.0, despite pulling mostly good characters(i actually enjoy them all, i dont own any 5 star i dislike other than gepard) i accidentally managed to get the perfect(well, almost) team for my favorite character, back in ruan mei's rerun i pulled her because she looks beautiful and people said shes good, i never used her. then rappa got drip marketted, i said ill pull her no matter what shes so cool, and then fugue came out, shes also so cool and just so happened to be good, now im a proud e1s1 rappa main with ruan mei fugue and gall....
The game hasn't changed tbh you pull new characters, you build them, you clear the content and If you get lucky you can pull more characters than usual rinse and repeat. If people just want to play same teams all the time than obsessing over clearing endgame in a gacha designed to sell you new characters may not be the best choice. We can blame Hoyo for sure but vast majority of the game is accessible for casuals and even MOC give you 30 cycles you don't need to clear in 10 cycles just to experience the content. There definitely isn't any excuse for people to not be able to clear MOC 10, PF 2 and AS 2 though and just doing them you get most of the rewards from endgame without even trying. There being a little more reward and challenge for players who want to meta game and be excited about their new character doing massive dmg isn't going to hurt anyone. Its actually some of the CCs we have in the community making people obsessed with endgame and 0 cycling when Hoyo themselves puts more emphasis on the story and events.
It is always smart to take into accountability for your own mistakes and Star Rail. I'm glad you (and other people) understand that Hoyo is to blame... partially. Anyone who TRULY wants to clear endgame (like it's their main goal), and wants to put in the smallest amount of work, should at LEAST be able to clear MOC 10. My No Warps account can typically clear MOC 10 3 stars. It's a really good point you bring up that... nobody is forcing anyone to clear MOC 12. Hoyo mostly cares about stories and events. I recall when MOC 12 first came out, I just saw it as bonus content for those who truly cared about endgame, while casuals could still get great rewards 1-10.
@@GyozaStarRail MOC 10 is basically what people are asking for the hp inflation has been way slower you don't need the most meta teams and overall less stress. They won't settle for this simply because a higher difficulty exists.
@@kennethyoung7457exactly this everyone forgets that we got 2 extra stages for added difficulty not to mention each characters BisS teams got way stronger too.
what does playing smart mean ? do i need to spending moneys to pull for multiple character to form a new premium team to be able to keep up with the meta ? if Hoyo still keeping the HP inflation to the point it basically required to get the lightcones to be able to comfortable clearing it , Does it means i should go with vertical investment for a team and get 36 stars 3-4 times a year when Hoyo decide to give moc the buff that favor for those team ? Should Moc 12 should be a whale and dolphin playground and not for player who doesn't strictly follow the meta ?
I understand how you feel. However, you don't have to pull for the meta to be able to clear content! It does suck missing some stars at first, but that will give you time to build some characters. I personally believe horizontal investment is smarter at first. Get a set of good characters and if they hold up, THEN invest more into them, rather than potentially wasting all of your pulls. HSR is a single player game. The only thing you miss out on by waiting is a small handful of jades.
@GyozaStarRail I've been using dotcheron and firefly and I've been clearing all of the endgame content since then. It was a very pleasant surprise when I had to use a standard dot team this current moc as my firefly team just couldn't clear and I needed acheron for the second side, and it ended up working!
I payed 30$ on her rerun because I love blackswan. I barely ever use either of them lmao. I’m still hoping for a solid dot support or sustain to bring it back.
Pokke is right but he worded it in a way that triggered some people but if you have a working brain. You shouldnt get easily triggered by a guy who plays gacha games and makes himself look like a clown (typical 1% cursed CN boy Mr Pokke) Powercreep exists thats true But if you dont let it happen to you and If you know what youre doing, its non existent. Why? Zmm, Noblies, and other pure f2p players exists to prove that you can beat powerceep w/o spending Even wuwa has pure no-pull f2p players who can clear every area in Tower of adversity and holograms
Mhmmm. A ton of people's main takeaway is "you're bad, it's all your fault, Hoyo did nothing wrong." When literally isn't what ANYONE is saying. Like you said, it's there yeah, but if you have the proper knowledge and invest the right amount of time, you're good.
I agree about 90% or so of your point, what i not agree is the part main stat better than sub stats but i can sympathize because it’s take much effort on doing the vid. The main stat sub stat problem is right in every case but the main point of that is player don’t utilize game resources, they can have a rainbow set which have a right main stat decent substat still better than having a right set wrong main stat decent sub stat almost every time
Yeah substats over mainstats is only true like... 30% of the time. If your DPS is lacking what they need, it'll be a huge DPS loss. That being said, with many supports, they don't scale off of anything, so sacrificing some survival for actual good stats is fine.
Ohhh that sounds really interesting! Good luck! I bet that decision will benefit you for a long time! From her Kit, it seems like she may become the new top DPS!
I started playing in 1.6 and got Ruan Mei as my 1st 5 star at like 20 pity and Ratio was free a fews days later which set up my acc. I got Kafka cause she's Kafka and she's cool so I pulled for Black Swan the next patch. So my 2 teams where Follow-up and dot. I quit after losing to Welt on Aventurine's banner and came back and got Fu Xuan on her rerun and I managed to bounce back. I still can't clear MoC 12 but idgaf cause I have my Nihility ladies with Fugue now and my Follow up goats with Ratio, Jade and Aventurine. It hurts to see Dot falling off but hey I still enjoy the game
And that's what important! Your account seems super fun and I'm glad you're able to enjoy the game! Who cares about MOC 12 when the end goal of the game is to have fun. Maybe DOT will even come back one day.
I have two things to say one I made new f2p account in 2.0 I was able to clear every endgame max stars in 2.3 I still do it with the account Two if you want to be safe always pull for hyper carry CRT DPS and CRT support they will age well Sunday+ any 1.X CRT DPS is amazing Jiaoqiu will age fine why because we will get CRT DPS that deal damage from her/his Ultimate
How wow that's honestly really great! Nice work! If you are playing for meta or to clear endgame content that is very very solid Advice. Sunday alone is such a good option. Jiaoqiu too. Supports are just honestly some of the most important things to invest in.
@@GyozaStarRail If you think more about it The Herta being Ice CRT DPS is the reason why we see more of Jingliu vs Moc 12 in 2.7 than before even though enemies have more HP same happen with blade after Feixiao and Yunli were released
I've been looking through youtube a lot these past couple days for people's opinions ever since pokke's twitter post and so far, I think your opinion aligns most closely with mine on this issue. Powercreep exists but it's not at an unreasonable.. For context, I am a day 1 f2p player who has played every day (because I love turn based games) I have full starred every endgame ever since 1.2. So far in the roughly 20 months of the game, I have only pulled a total of 8 limited 5*characters those being Seele e0s1 (1.0), Silverwolf e0s0, Luocha e0s0 (1.1) Kafka e0s0 (1.2) Ruan Mei e0s1 (1.6; pulled e6s4 in 2.3 rerun) Acheron e0s1 (2.1) Robin e0s1 (2.5 rerun), and Rappa e0s0 (2.6) I skipped a lot of the so called "must pulls" pushed by CCs because for the longest time I only wanted to pull og honkai characters. The only characters who I pulled due to friend pressure and not following my own criteria were Robin and Rappa. Heck, because I had been so frugal with my pulls, I was able to get an e6s4 of my favorite character (RM) by the time of her rerun in 2.3 and that took 754 pulls. Of the limited 5* that I pulled, I don't use Seele anymore, Kafka, Silverwolf, and Robin rarely, and the other four very often. in conclusion, powercreep exists but is definitely manageable through the right investments. I think this is ironically demonstrated by my hard head saving 750+ pulls to max power my favorite charater whilst still clearing all endgame during my long periods of saving. Also for the longest time I didn't even have a break dps for the vast majority of the 2.x patches, nor did I have the best support for Acheron. (I still don't) If I can do these things, I'm pretty sure that if a player has the time and desire, could learn the game, and eventually build 2 teams capable of clearing endgame.
I see you are a very patient person with your pulls! Honestly kudos to you! Hopefully that Ruan Mei is treating you well! I'm glad you agree and are another example of being smart with pulls to combat powercreep! If someone was to actually lock in and tryhard, they could surely beat all the content easy F2P!
A cool side effect of pulling and using so few characters is that those characters will eventually have extremely highly refined relics bc there's so much more time and resources to focus on each of them. The same can be said regarding the knowledge of the intricacies and nuances of their kits function.
@@tianyouzhang4301 Mhm! That's how many people (such as myself) are able to get decent rolls. It is luck, yes, but a lot of it comes from only needed to farm one specific set rather than many new ones.
so my sparkle who used to have good mix of spd and cdmg i already changed her build to a point that its weird to some people but for my account, its good enuff shes 173 spd with only 70+ cdmg using a ddd s5 with an er rope of course and her only role is to push my acheron for more turns and provide sp to my sp hungry team of acheron,sparkle,aventurine and pela why this team is sp hungry pela using free silverwolf lc with an eagle set so most time she want to maximize eagle set so sp needed to use almost all her turns to ensure ult charged then of course basic attack acheron is not good idea
To be fair, that's actually not the worst idea. Sparkle's AV, SP gen, and buffs are still pretty potent! I can see how that would work for you! Pela and Aven can MOSTLY be Positive, but wanting to max out stack for Acheron changes that a bit.
@@GyozaStarRail and also to add my acheron is just only e0s1 but i already able to move pass the con of not having 2 other nihility cuz my acheron sometimes can clear better than some other people acheron teams and also i want to play sparkle and acheron so this is a good work around
I agree and disagree with some of your points I understand the whole you have to investment your account the right way Im definitely one of those people since I don’t pull for LC or eidolon. I Just pull for the character that I want. Now there is one important thing that you never mention in the video what is the best way to address the power creep. One CC I watch mention the best way to address power creep is to buff older characters. For me I think they should use the pure fiction and Apocalyptic shadow buff mechanics where you can select three different option for break, follow up, and dot. For some reason this mechanics is missing in Moc instead we have the weird trotter mechanics these are not viable since each trotter has different weakness you can’t take advantage of those. I would like to hear what your idea of counteract power creep other than invest better. That is a great point and I agree with that, but that shouldn’t be the only way to deal with power creep.
Glad to see some new perspectives! Yeah! I feel like what I said in this video (only bringing up investing better) leaves a lot to be desired. Buffing older characters (such as straight up using items that increase stats in some ways) is a very cool thing that some gachas do. FEH and FGO are good examples. I would LOVE if HoyoVerse added something like that, however, I really doubt that. I do actually like your idea alot though. Adding a choice of buffs would be really helpful. You can still choose "buffs" in MOC but it would be cool if they were more like the new PF buffs. Counteracting powercreep in a game like this can be hard. Because as a F2P player, there's only so much you can do. Investing ALL resources wisely is very important, not just pulls. You could just, wait and stockpile jades. Miss out on some clear rewards, but then make your decision on who to pull after their meta is gone. That would take an extremely long amount of time though (and honestly wouldn't be "fun" for me).
I disagree that Seele is useless cause i've seen E0S0 Seele clear this MoC, people say DoT is useless and personally i cleared this MoC (Svarog) with a Kafka/B.Swan team in 5 cycles. People say Jingliu dropped off and sucks but i used her to beat the bug in 3-4 cycles (depending on crit rng lol). Every 5* character can be used to clear whether it's 0 cycle or 10 cycles, it still counts as a 3* clear. If you invest in team synergy and characters (traces,levels,relics) these older 'power crept' characters can still do their jobs. When Pokke released that tweet, I'm probably one of the few who despite his bad wording understand what he meant, i get where he was coming from. So it was so funny so many went all haywire cause of it. I love Gachasmack's content but i watched his stream reacting to the Pokke 1hr long video and he was speaking of a 'try hard' and not thinking about it in a casual player mindset.
@@izumolee6714 Yeah that's valid. Seele is just personally useless for me haha. That's nice though! Investment and proper planning can really beat powercreep. Yeah. The only problem with Pokke's tweet is how many people saw it as a personal attack. I'm glad I was the only one thinking that Smack's mindset wasn't exactly perfect. Smack is a goat but that stream was a little off I would say.
The player and the company are always at lose- lose situation. Due to the fact that hsr is a turn based game, they cant really rely on player skilly like genshin. If they dont make the endgame harder, players gonna cry. When they make that the enemys are glass cannons, than the team comp is different and players gonna cry.
I tend to never pull for characters i do not like, which has made me skip nearly every meta unit in 2.x and i still cleared everything the game threw at me with my DoT/FuA comps (no Ruan Mei, Feixiao, Acheron or anything break related). Although my DoT comp has finally shown its age, which isn't a problem cause one of the characters i've been expecting will arrive in 3.0, Herta, i'll use her until my DoT comp gets some love. HSR balancing/planning from the devs is in a very very sorry state, at the end of the day, it's a gacha, it is predatory by nature, it'll never change, people will always spend money so the companies behind those games won't really see any reason to change so what can i do if i just so happen to like the game? Adapt or uninstall. Pulling for waifus only is fine, but if you also want to clear endgame consistently then you just have to be a tiny bit more selective with your pulls, for example, don't pull a DPS if you don't need one urgently, save it for the next waifu or husbando that actually fills a spot or enhanced a comp you already have, don't spread yourself too thin and you'll do just fine even with older units.
I'm really glad to hear your take as I find it extremely fair. It's like what I wanted to say. Pulling for waifus only is fine, but if you need to do more, you may have to break that a bit. Skip the characters you like occasionally for the next one. As you said, it's a gacha game. It's predatory and that's not the consumers fault but... That's how these kind of games work sadly. Thank you for your comment and good luck with The Herta!!
Controversial opinion: I think this MoC looks particularly bad because we don't have access to RMC yet. And I honestly foresee RMC to be cracked with the True Damage Buff that people will be running one side with Herta or Serval and this conversation will turn into "See? Power creep wasn't an issue at all! We just had to wait a bit" when honestly we should be mad at the fact they're not letting up on adding new characters and should just directly buff the old characters so they're still usable. They should slow down a few patches and let Reruns catch up, on top of adding ways to vertically invest in our favorites that isn't just pulling for Eidolons. And if Pulling for Eidolons is the only way to go, having the Eidolons available for purchase in the Starlight Shop would go a long way. WuWa does this, there's no excuse why HSR can't do this also.
That is actually a really good point! This MOC will become LEAGUES easier for everyone once RMC comes out. Does that make it okay? Not at all! People can clear yes, but it wouldn't hurt to give F2P players more options like buying Eidolons like you said.
For me is hella crazy that they spect to clear everything without not now how their characters do , frfr for once we have a hard cool game like hsr ( not like easy pece genshin) and they rlly trying to take that from dat even hoyo say at the start of the game have say that the game will be complicated than the others games , like if u don’t like it just do history or secondary missions there’s a million thing to do en hsr and the crying that they can’t clean moc with their seele with lyxn, again if u want to lock in takes time and dedication again this is not genshin impact ( i say that bc i know a lot of players come from there and is way easier )
The ease of on launch MoC makes ppl delusion of a unit actual strength. Like on launch most if not all dps had weakness tailored to them, enemies mechanics tailored to them, MoC turbulence tailored to them, like those are at 300% performance. So it creates an illusion that they dont need to invest much and still clears because i already cleared it once why cant i do it again. Like against all the power creep people bitching about, 1.x characters still performs fine at E0 (or themselves at E1/E2 and/or with supports E1/E2), like Seele have the fastest clear base on China data on current MoC. The condition for a character to be good is no longer "brute force everything" but rather now they need to to align with weaknesses. For example DHIL, so called "outdated" can still do Bananamusement or the current True Sting fine because they are Imaginary weak. The rate at HP increase is somewhat "concerning" but imho, only til now is the HP is at the mark that it is difficult to be worth calling "end game content" where only people who actually built their units and know how to play the game can clear and not just bunch of people that have 8/8/8 lv 70 LC press auto and still expect to clear.
That is very much! Obviously a character is going to be the most broken in THEIR patch and not during another rotation. Clears, especially endgame clears, take a lot of time and A LOT of investment to clear if you are F2P. People however just want to clear with low investment and pull for every character.
So, here's a giant irony: On the red corner, endgame content abt Hsr take account for majority are *0T, leviathans, 80k fiction, 7.5k apoc* . There's literally no content for casual at all, because tryhard always take, or steal the spotlight. And on the blue corner some players have the nerve, the balls to say: *Hsr is FtWoP FrIeNdLy and catered toward casual* . Now which side is more correct? Forgive me for being toxic and nihilistic, but by the red corner's statistics, Hsr is a "sink or swim" game made only for the likes of tryhards like Xolze, Lisara, Eidehgaming while the casuals just sunk in contents made by the tryhards that they waste resources mimicking a fraction of them, just to have a "decent acc to beat endgame".
Oh I don't blame you at all for being nihilistic! The game certainly is meant to make you spend because well... It's a gacha game. MOC 12 was honestly "bonus" content for those tryhards/whales. MOC 1-10 still gets good rewards, so those rewards are just for those who really really tryhard/spend. That being said, F2Ps CAN still clear, but it's considerably harder.
Haha thank you very much! Boothill is my favorite character, so I've been thinking of getting his LC and perhaps Eidolons, but Mydei is certainly on my list.
EXACTLY!! People are acting like characters are COMPLETELY dead now (even I'm guilty of feeling that way), but the truth is that old characters can still clear content!
One point in favor, does the game give you the tools to make all the content? YEAH Does that mean that I have to punish you unnecessarily for misjudging a character or simply not giving them real support as is the case with blade? no Does that mean that it's okay that I don't have to give you 4-star alternatives to essential mechanics such as overtaking actions or super break? no (assuming the MC can compensate you well for the damage to the team) Does that mean that you get frustrated because the Late game is basically a character check and that the ability is almost not necessary if you have the banner character and you don't have it? neither I can honestly understand the defense of certain things but as someone who came back from 2.2 and someone who has played more than 13 to 15 gachas games, it doesn't change the fact that Star rail is doing it wrong. although again surely in 3.0 the characters are better with the new mechanics. but one thing does not eliminate the other
One thing I like a lot of people overlook is that I'm not.. defending a giant company. Compared to the "mistakes" the player base is making, HoyoVerse is making actual predatory decisions that make the game worse. It's not a question of who's worse. It's HoyoVerse 100%. But, the player CAN still work around the issues if they truly wanted to. Not like the issues aren't there. You seem really knowledgeable on the topic of gacha games though and I appreciate your comment!
as a brand new player would you recomend going for herta or feixiao? i like them both for different reasons but i'm afraid of herta not being that good in ST and feixiao not being good in AOE
@@rickmel-q7m Ahah yeah... that certainly does happen... If you wanted, you could just hoard all of your pulls until you can fully invest in one character!
@@rickmel-q7m Both of those units can still carry you to at least MOC 10, even if they get powercrept. If you are a brand spanking new player though... yea, don't worry too much about endgame. Though you are at a phase of your journey where you can genuinely just pull for whoever you 1. like aesthetic/story wise and 2. like power wise at the current state of the game. I pulled for whoever the fuck at the beginning of the game and now even though I'm stuck with a few DPSs that fell off, I'm still waiting on their returns with new characters or even investing into them. Honestly, even though it's the talk of the town, don't be a meta slave and just pull on your fav characters and then invest in their teams if you REALLY want to care about endgame. (edit: Also I recommend getting Lingsha as your sustain, even if she gets powercrept later on (not sure how but hey) you will appreciate her healing and utility, trust me.)
I can't agree with the guy. He's incredibly out of touch with the average f2p player experience, as he has "oilers" that fund his pulls and "account managers" that do the tedious bits of the game for him. That plus he deliberately causes drama (he actually admits to this sometimes) and so often his takes are done to actually stir drama, then farm it the next day for his stream, while saying things like "you all misinterpreted my point" to save himself from the backlash.
Y'know I think that's valid. Mr. Pokke (and honestly most CCs) just don't understand the F2P experience as you said. When you have people who literally get on your account for you to do stuff, you can't say you relate to the player base anymore. Even with his new account, it's like... Is it reaaaally the F2P experience..? That being said though, I do think his idea of how powercreep is real, but can be combatted by the players is true. I just wish he wasn't so content farmy.
The people getting triggered by mrpokke: Gets into a GACHA game with a heavy emphasis on TEAM building. Chases waifus/husbandos and have no resources left to guarantee any "meta" supports or vertical investment (which tbh isn't actually needed. people are still clearing with e0 seele). Starts having difficulty full clearing ENDGAME. Surprised pikachu face. And we havent even dug deeper into how these same people define difficulty/powercreep. Lots of them tbh are just complaining that their 1 cycle now turned into a 3-4 cycle. 🤷
Mhmmm! At the end of the day, its a team based gacha game. If you pull for only what you want, you'd struggle a bit, that's how it works. People just don't realize that. Also, of course when a character comes out, they're going to be more powerful since everything is tied to them. Once that endgame cycle goes away, of course they'll be weaker. I agree with you haha.
Building Supports squishy AF, is just asking for Disaster waiting to happen. DMG% Orbs with the "wrong element + no Speed subs at all" are worthless for them. Then complains and puts the blame why the Sustains cannot prevent One shots from supports, and restarting things all over again.
Haha a lot of people definitely are like that. Of course, you'd want a hp or def orb, but getting the right stats with them can be very difficult! Just a temporary solution to a problem until you get better stuff. My Gallagher has been able to sustain my Fugue and Bronya with random orbs though! Sure, in some situations you get unlucky and have to restart, but that's the tradeoff for being able to clear content! I do agree though with your last point. Sustains can only do so much, if you are someone who dislikes Aventurine, Fu Xuan, or any other meta sustains, you're sadly outta luck. I don't know if you're referring to something I said, but I did not mean to say no speed subs haha. The entire point of using wrong orbs is if they actually have subs you want (like speed).
@GyozaStarRail My Current Sustains, E6 Gallagher and Fu Xuan is still working for me....for my Acheron and Feixiao teams, that I am not sure if I still need Lingsha.... when I am also going for THE Herta in the next patch. There's also Tribbie and Castorice in the horizon....and My F2P @ss can only save so much.
Gosh yeah so many good things in the horizon. It feels rough to save and miss stuff you really want, but good luck! Hopefully they come home early and Herta helps you a ton!
To be honest... Power creep is a thing for a long time... That's how gacha game make their money (also waifu and husbu make them money too) So... gacha game veteran shouldn't have any difficulty with this problem... (or at least only minor problem) Me who already play multiple of gacha games for more than 10 years... think hoyo games (at least GI, HSR and ZZZ) is decent with their gacha... Example : When I play FGO in the past, they didn't even have pity system yet... now? You need 330 pull for guaranteed limited You who play GI, HSR, ZZZ... they always give bunch of gems for starter... so many mission and side quest, so many chest, many event, etc If you pull for everything you see or want when you're not a whale... it's your problem 1st - Whenever new banner is out... always ask yourself... "Did you really need this character?" (Better if you know what kind of character will come for the next 1 to 2 banner) 2nd - If your character is basically an already strong unit (Example : Neuvillette in GI, Acheron in HSR, Miyabi in ZZZ), try to pull for their constelation/eidolon/talent and/or their signature whenever their banner got a rerun So either you tackle power creep by pulling on new character that tailored to matching the new meta... or you can just strengthen your old character by upgrading their constelation and/or their signature weapon just to brute force the meta *I am F2P player for HSR and ZZZ but I can still get Acheron E2 and Signature, Miyabi and her signature, in Genshin I am not F2P but only because I want BP crit weapon when the game fiirst come out Yep... I skipped a lot of banner... (Cause I can't rely on my luck... my luck is almost non existence)
Exactly. It sucks, but that's how gacha games are. If you learn how to properly manage your resources in a game like this, you can get by! As you said, can't rely on luck? Then save up and GUARANTEE. You lose out on a ton, but it's smart. Gacha games are indeed unfortunate in that regard, but you can get around it.
@@GyozaStarRail Yeah... just like upcoming Lingsha rerun banner... After borrowing friend's Lingsha for my Firefly break team, I tempted to pull for her... But I also want 'The Herta' for my Herta/Himeko FuP AoE team... Now... the situation is... I 100% will pulling for 'The Herta'... For Lingsha tho... I already have Gala fully built... (so kinda 50/50 on that) Then today... HSR drop marketing castorice... I am kinda doomed right now... (But the artifact that come with her patch kinda sus) The most possible outcome is I only pull for E0 S0 The Herta then saving until E0 S0 Castorice
You can't clear all content if you pull for characters you like. Meanwhile, people clear the hardest endgame content with Ben solo in ZZZ. Worst character in ZZZ tier lists. Not even 5 star. This mentality of "there's power creep if you allow it to happen" is just a way people cope with terrible truths.
I can definitely see that being the case for most people. It is also very true that endgame in Star Rail can be a lot harsher than something like ZZZ. However, I pull for characters I like. Yeah, I have to miss some like Sunday, but that is the greed part Mr. Pokke was speaking of. Sometimes you just have to miss a character you like. It sucks, but that doesn't mean you can't clear content if you pull for characters you enjoy. I still use Blade and his LC for fun, but just not if I'm trying to clear well. Hoyo is to blame though. If anything more than the players. The real thing meant to be said is "powercreep is real but if you are smart, you can work around it." Unfortunately, Mr. Pokke's phrasing left many people with the wrong impression.
@@GyozaStarRail Yeah, All hoyo games seem to follow this trend. ZZZ is still a relatively new game, so Powercreep will definitely come. Especially now that Miyabi has been released. Miyabi is such a powerful character she's in a different tier alone. The only Gacha game that doesn't have a power creep problem would be FGO from my experience. FGO is a 10-year-old Gacha game, but even during the latest boss raid event, Sakata Kintoki was the best character to clear it(a character released 10 years ago). Simply because he takes the least amount of button clicks to clear. FGO deals with power creep by giving older characters "enhancement quests". Hoyo could also do this, but I doubt it will happen.
I think I heard of a similar thing happening on Fire Emblem Heroes. A material that can buff old units past their old potential to give them a second shot! I do sadly also doubt that Hoyoverse would ever do this either.
Nice video. You speaking my mind. I am a monthly player and can do 0 cycles because I have Robin E1, Feixiao LC and put effort building team and speed tuning. My other team are SuperBreak and Acheron, even tho I dont have Jiaoqio she can still clear in 5, SuperBreak in 1-2. Theres many people I know that pull for stuff like Kafka,Blade,Jingliu back in the day and complain they cant clear because: they stop invest in them/their team, pull like 2 new dps which doesnt work with each other, didnt pull support like Robin/RuanMei or even Sparkle, nor any eidolons for their "beloved" one year ago. You dont have to have clairvoyace to be able to plan your pull. Look at what you have and enjoy and try to get a foundation to build/plan off that. I pull Sunday prep for 3.0 in the mean time I can always use him with my Jingyuan. Or its always fun to use Seele with new Harmony support Sunday or Robin. Theres enough pull for you to get them, just need to know what you actually enjoy ❤
Thanks! Yeah, you're a very smart player! Not only because of your decisions, but because you understand these issues very well! It's crazy to hear people complain about their old favorites falling out of favor while refusing to further invest in those units.
i litterally can't get it, why now so many cc says you can make way around power creep just "smart invest" or you let that to happen by being "greedy/stupid" etc instead of blame devs who has all cards i mean how regular player should know future and plan so far ahead? especially when same CCS post videos like "must pool" "new best" etc here is some examples for context 1) Seele, oh my dear, best dps on launch by far, somewhat future proof with her kill=act again yet 425% dmg on ult against 700% from Feixiao i mean there is just number gap not to mention that with E2 she can ult like every second turn while Seele can't 2) Silver wolf, unique weakness imput which should make her future proof by a large margin, and all CC says that, yet all new dps just ignore weakness type like Acheron/Feixiao or make weakness type for themself like firefly, so why was silver wolf created again? 3) Sparkle, now completely outshine by Sunday in every scenario, but why? I mean isn't he suppouse to be support for summons? Why he gave so much power for character to overcome Sparkle in her best team even without count summon advance?? And again sparkle on release was "must pull" 4) Blade/Jingliu and whole hp drain mech was abondone for a year just to be powercreept im amforeus with new shiny toys? 5) Same goes for dot team which saw no updates for year How somebody can know that will happen and not invest in dot/blade team? (i have both Blade and Jingliu even got loucha for them and was so hyped about hp drain team with last piece of puzzle supp for that comp which just not happend to be because of devs decision) One thing when new chars clear content faster, and completely another when old chars clear it slower, you literally can see how your wifu/husbando become weak against same enemy just with more HP each patch, who in his damn mind like to see that?
I fully understand how you feel. Powercreep SUCKS and it isn't always easy to see your favorites become bad. Powercreep is real very very obviously. It isn't just looking into the future though. It's investing well. I have had my share of pulls that are meaningless now. As you mentoned, Seele, Blade, Sparkle, and other characters I've pulled are just useless. It IS the devs fault. However, that doesn't mean you can't work around it. Not being greedy is a very harsh way of saying that sometimes you just have to skip characters you want. Yeah, it sucks not getting what you want, but waiting is typically a much smarter move. DOT is bad now, but DOT + Acheron works very very well. You can still make these old metas work. Though I LOVE Blade, I don't use him to fully clear all the endgame content. However, I still like him enough to give him cracked supports and see how well he can do! Or just use him in Sim Universe or overworld exploration. MOC, AS, and PF are not everything. That all being said. None of it is specifically YOUR fault and I hate that some people are saying that it is. It is a GAME. You are meant to pull the characters you like. It's just that if your focus is pulling for ONLY and I mean ONLY who you want, you may not be able to clear all the endgame.
@@GyozaStarRail Mb you are right yet i have some concerns 1) Dots with Acheron not making dots good, its just Acheron that strong and can work with them to carry to some extend, you can't say "shit my black swan did good here" when Acheron do all the job 2) And again WHY? Why i should't be able to clear with who i wanna pull, why if i clear that MoC in 20 cicles and next will be exactly same with just again +hp mobs now i clear in 21 and didn't get my last reward? Again there no new characters that was stronger but mine became weaker for no real reason, why can't i have my 20 cicles clear while newer chars clear a bit faster which will not affect me? Like is there any problem to stop make every char stronger just for no reason and then make every enemy not stronger/intresting but just thicker and thicker to keep clear time in tact? Instead of making new types of play like break/summons/dot/hp drain/low hp survive/ (hi nerfed arlan)/any damn shield exploit mb?? we just have more and more hp and raw power? Again for context where it all starts DHIL why he should have +crit dmg on his enchanced attack, especially that much? Jingliu should have +50% crit chance just for existance? Somebody can say it's just dps creep but now we have sunday who not just have action adv better than sparkle he also adv summon and aslo give crit dmg same as sparkle (but why should he do that? basically double advance with some minor dmg buff Isn't enough?)
It's very true that sadly Acheron doesn't make DOT work, but it's at least an out for people to still be able to use their favorites to clear all content. There is a part of me that would LOVE people just to use a team comp of their favorites, but teambuilding exists. You COULD clear everything with and E6 S5 Kafka (or any character) if you truly loved her that much. That is the "greedy" part Mr. Pokke was speaking of. Sadly you cannot do everything you want. You have to skip sometimes and manage your resources for characters you care about. I would LOVE to always get what I want, but it just doesn't work like that. ALL THAT BEING SAID, I don't think you're wrong for any of these concerns. Heck, I completely understand how it feels to be able to use your favorite units anymore.
HSR has always been resource management I’ve been saving my resources since the beginning but now I got too much of everything I wish I thought of making a guide I didn’t lvl anything up really until lvl 70 and I didn’t farm for gear until max I just farmed traces first
I completely agree, there’s definitely power creep but like you said as long as you invest and build your characters you can still clear content and “break” the power creep. My ftp account is a prime example since I have always pulled for off meta characters. I have an E2S1 Argenti and E1S1 Jade but no Acheron, Firefly, Ruan Mei, Feixiao, and any other meta characters from past patches but I still complete the end game content. I may not be able to get all the stars but since I’ve committed some time to the characters I do have I can still mostly clear it. From my understanding, power creep is the hp inflation and the new mechanics you have to learn to beat certain enemies which makes past characters have a more difficult time defeating them (Sunday’s boss battle of break mechanics for example), but it shouldn’t be when a person can’t clear content because they have no idea what they’re doing. I wish more people understood, when I try to explain this to friends so they know why they aren’t beating MoC 9 or 10 they just brush it aside. Who then become amazed when I help them beat it. I had a friend who kept saying there’s so much power creep but when I was helping them they didn’t have a single character built. They only pulled for characters that content creators said were meta and would help you beat every end game. I ended up helping them out by putting semi-decent relics and getting them to MoC 12. It wasn’t 36 starred but it was the first time they reached MoC 12
I really respect the Argenti and Jade pulls. Completing the end game content is all that matters. So you lose out on like 60 jades, oh well. The fact is that you are able to clear and enjoy the game, and not get mad at Star Rail because you made the decision to pull for offmeta characters. Not like you are wrong for pulling who you want, of course. And like you said with your friends, people who claim all that all their faults are on powercreep, seem to not even understand the game! I'm glad you understand enough and actually help them reach MOC 12. Good job!
@ fr like can meta slave let me pull and play the characters on my account one time without u screaming in my ear how they suck and they’re not meta 😭💀
And I think that's is the whole issue honestly. It sounds like he was insulting people and it just wasn't supposed to be that. Hopefully he understands and doesn't do it again haha.
Mhm. I feel you. Alot of my old units being much much worse really sucks. I think alot of people think I love Hoyo, but I really hate how some old characters fall out of favor. Hopefully we get something to help older characters clear! (Not that they can't, it just takes considerably more effort.)
@GyozaStarRail and thaats the problem with pokke i clearly understand his points but he's just pinning the blame on the consumer and not criticising the company about the issue
@@fable7372 mhm! I think I'm a bit guilty of that too though. I don't think it's the consumers "fault." I should've added a portion in my video talking about the predatory nature of gacha games and how, even if the player is at "fault" the company is creating this problem is even more so at fault.
Unfortunately the state of endgame in Star Rail just keeps getting harder and harder. Not even with genuine difficulty but with artificial difficulty by inflated HPs. Old and new characters could be viable but... Like you said, it is what it is.
@@GyozaStarRail i don't wanna collect suppot i don't give a fuck to make old chars relevant,lol they forced me to care about powercreep,glad i quit long ago,all hoyogames are dogshit
I would have agreed with pokkes take IF he said what HOYOVERSE can do to solve the issue, people can spout buzzwords like “skill issue” and “play better” or “pull e1 robin bro” but that does nothing to solve the actual issue of powercreep. At the end of the day, HOYO made this problem, its on them to solve it. People have already brought up suggestions like buff old units, add more interesting mechanics instead of hp, and things like that.
Also if he worded the tweet much better because it reads like hes blaming the consumer instead of the company for an issue created by the company. Just hope the game I loved turns things around in 3.x on.
No you're actually so right for that! It is NOT solely the players fault. At the end of the day, Hoyoverse is a company and they are the ones creating this issue in the first place!! I agree with you completely. I think a lot of people want to ONLY blame Hoyoverse while they refuse to even read what characters do. That's where MY personal issue lies and what I think Mr. Pokke meant to say. That, even though this issue exists, you can work around it, not that the player is dumb and greedy for not understanding.
Fingers crossed that the balance improves!!!
I think the fact that this kind of discussion is even being held is already an automatic loss for the community and a win for Hoyo. Why are things like pulling strategy, archetype coverage and vertical investment at the forefront of the discussion of power creep of all things, along with calling players dumb and greedy?
Everyone is literally being duped right in front of their faces by Hoyo and instead of directly calling them out and stopping there, people are speaking up in their defense, pointing fingers at each other and trying to find problems everywhere except the origin. When it's not just the "dumb and greedy players" who are hurt by this powercreep and rampant HP inflation, but even CCs and hardcore players like Mr. Pokke himself. Does anyone remember the state of MoC and content creation around the game before 2.0? Because I vividly remember watching dozens of various creators, both big and small, making all kinds of videos of fun team comps, strategies, combos, challenges, etc.
Nowadays, the majority of that type of content is either dead, transformed into cookie-cutter copy guides (because every single character is already pre-made with a team in mind, usually consisting of 3 other limited 5-stars), or either boring (if the character in question is being catered to by the game mode to the point the whole challenge aspect is trivialized and gone) or frustrating (if the character isn't matching the strict requirements of the game mode and is just there as a "downgrade of X character"). This is not without exception, of course, but I think it is beyond doubt that this aspect of the game has changed for the worse, and it's not only people who can't clear endgame among the affected, but the entire playerbase.
I think that a discussion of this type is definitely something that can be had, just not in the framework of "yeah, powercreep isn't real, you're just dumb". I think nobody would disagree with Mr. Pokke if he instead just said "I think even F2P players can easily clear all endgame if they plan their investment and play well". But then he wouldn't be able to farm as much drama/engagement, so I guess he got what he wanted in the end.
@@MeneTekelFares Thank you for the very in-depth comment! I think you are very much so correct about everything.
Especially the fact that Mr. Pokke certainly phrased his point in perhaps the worst way possible.orignally.
No player should ever be blamed or forced to feel bad because they "didn't pull right."
Star Rail has 100% been ramping up in difficulty and sadly that original fun of clearing with fun team comps is kinda dying. I do try to combat this by mixing meta with characters I enjoy, but sadly it doesn't always work.
I really tried to make this video by not blaming anyone and trying to give my own view on Mr. Pokke's point without being so (respectfully) drama farming. Attacking players is never the right answer while HoyoVerse gets off scott free.
I agree bro I’ve been able to clear everything in the endgame since the game came out and I only spend lightly I was f2p at first and just saved and invested in smart thing before the community realized they were good poeple don’t read so they get lost when pulling or building
It happens in EVERY gacha game but community engagement with it has only ever been a big problem in HSR. HP inflation has been thrown around a lot but there are so many nuances that are being skipped just to prove a point or attack a company cause Hoyo bad.
Even now people are saying that this patch MoC is easier even though the HP went up. Is every patch meant to cater to your single target Feixao? Why ever pull a unit or think about building teams to tackle different scenarios or do we want easy END game like Abyss?
@@deviant315l6 EXACTLY! Why should one single team work perfectly in all content forever. That wouldn't really be fun. It sucks to not use your favorites forever, but the game would become so stale if it was like that.
@@deviant315l6 But the problem is the end game is NOT getting more difficult over time. I wouldn't have a problem with a more difficult end game, but that's clearly not the case. The only thing that changed is the requirement for the current "on banner" unit becoming more and more strict. The Herta can literally 0-cycle current (and next) MoC in a 1-cost team, where's difficulty in that?
And it doesn't even feel good to build different teams, because this game no longer has archetypes, it only has specific character-focused teams. There's no FuA, Hypercarry or Break, as many would think. There is a Robin Feixiao team, there is a Fugue Lingsha team, etc. And many of the endgame nodes are also turning away from encouraging you to play an archetype and more towards just 1 currently promoted unit.
Again, going back, I can remember MoC buffs that would give buffs to specific paths, like giving a 100% action advance to a character of a specific path at the start of every cycle. So that you could make use of it on any destruction carry that you might want to build a team around, if the buffs are for destruction characters during current MoC reset. But what's the current state of modes like Apoc Shadow? The boss mechanics and the blessings are layered in such a way, that there's literally only 1 character that matches all of the requirements, to the point where they might as well just give the rewards right away as soon as you pull the new character, without having to play them, since you can clear it on auto with them anyway.
Tbh all this start from Pokke phrasing his own tweet so bad it left many people with the wrong impression.
No seriously! I respect the guy but dang. That tweet was worded in a way where many people took the worst impression of it.
Really? So he didnt word it that way because of his inherent superiority complex and elitism? Oh phewh, he’s a good innocent baby boo. It’s not as if he had once acted kind and handled a bad situation perfectly, only to immediately turn around the moment the other person’s back was turned and trash him, as though he hadn’t been part of the mess himself-right? Phew, glad to hear from his meatrider himself that he is still a living saint.
@@Tiku- I don't honestly know THAT much about Mr. Pokke to even know what drama you're talking about.
I can't say I fully agree with everything Pokke has done, but in this situation, I liked his views on powercreep.
I like his views on HSR and don't know him as a person.
@@Tiku- I'm pretty sure he worded it that way cuz he's a content creator
@@Tiku-stop being so dramatic. Idk what you're talking about, but it has nothing to do with this
Two golden advices for gacha players:
1. You don't need every single character to clear endgame contents.
2. In endgame contents, a clear is a clear, no matter the methods and however much retries needed in the process.
Very good advice! I think for some reason, players think that they NEED every character and need to clear in as little cycles as possible. The truth is though... like you said, a clear is a clear.
Think majority agree that powercreep exist in HSR it was pretty obvious and can be felt especially in the DPS tag.
The issue with his tweet like others mentioned is how poorly the tweet is phrased. Some CCs just wanted him to acknowledge that his tweet was poorly phrased which i think he did but it was too late anyways to change it.
His whole reasoning why he made that post. Is because he got annoyed with a specific type of players, which are the greedy and stupid.
These are players that spent all their pulls on random units and expect that a poorly invested unit/team will just carry them forever.
But this doesn't change the fact that the game's balance is shit.
If you care about the longevity of the unit don't pull for DPS if you already have one or two, since they will get powercreep so easily and instead go for supports. But before all that just wait for more info to come by from others before pulling on those units. This is more for players in the hardcore/meta and all about fully clearing the endgame.
If you're a casual/waifu collector then pull whoever you want since in the end of the day you probably don't care that much on fully clearing endgame. If you do then you're not part of this player type.
@@BlaD-Arc That's very very fair. Most of not all of this "drama" stems from Mr. Pokke's poorly phrased tweet.
I did however, see a lot of CCs then start to then start saying that F2Ps cannot expect to "pull properly" or that powercreep IS too hard to be dealt with, so I just wanted to give my own thoughts!
@GyozaStarRail oh no worries power to you man! 😁
I think the real problem is that hsr (hoyo) is 'forcing' you to always pull for the new characters you like them or not cuz other way you will struggle with endgame content. I know this is a gacha game and 'planning' your pulls is the way to go but it makes the game restrictive. I pulled DHIL in his rerun and pulled for Sparkle for him, then I pulled Acheron in her rerun cuz she's strong but nowadays my DHIL makes nothing in the highest difficulty. Now I need a new second 'strong' dps 'again' so I pulled Sunday (even if I don't like him) cuz I'm 'planning' to pull for the new best dps (castorice I guess) BUT I have to skip characters that I was waiting for. In other gacha games like in Fate or even Genshin, you can use all the characters you have to complete the endgame content, sure, you really need to build them correctly and make the effort but c'mon! In Genshin you can use a full well invested 4 star team for the abysm but I can't use my DHIL anymore... It's like someone said 'in hsr you should never pull for a rerun, just pull for the new thing if you want to invest properly' that's what's really sad
I feel you. I understand how and why you feel that way. Characters, especially DPS are the worst cases due to being powercrept. I feel the same with Imibibitor. Although still try to make him work endgame. Sparkle sadly just doesn't cut for him anymore. Luckily, if you end up ever getting Sunday's LC, he actually works better for Dan Heng IL. It does suck to always look forward to the new shiny thing and leave your favorite behind, but you can still find ways to make it work!
Hopefully you end up enjoying the new characters and they last longer than units like Imbibitor though!
good video, i started making a f2p account on 1.6 and started building it on 2.0 to see how fast i could clear and got full stars on all content on 2.1, havent slipped since until only one pure fiction (i dont remember which but around 2.4 - 2.5) which made me realize i shouldve pulled robin and a limited erudition (the herta soon). i lost like one third of a pull and didnt lose sleep over it.
honestly my stance comes from an experience of knowing that these games are ultra predatory so i take it as a challenge to clear without spending and feel achieved when doing so, i dont expect handouts because gachas giving handouts means those handouts arent to be generous but to make commodities less valuable (hi ratio), but i guess not many think of it that way.
First of all, I LOVE YOUR CONTENT WAVEMAN!! THANK YOU FOR COMMENTING AHHH
Ahem, I completely understand your stance though. These games ARE predatory and I also feel achieved when I "beat" the system. I think a lot of people just want HSR to become more friendly and less predatory towards those F2P players, which I totally get.
@@GyozaStarRail thanks! also i agree, my apathetic stance feels warm that people still want to fight this sort of systematic issues, but as someone that did learn about games and how blatantly psychologically engineered the modern gaming landscape is throughout the years for capital,
i cant stop but feel like an old man shouting at the clouds for people realizing how long this has been going on. and how many times its been attempted to change but has never worked, for gachas especially and even hoyo themselves. it feels so frustrating to talk about.
its mostly the reason why i can never recommend anyone hsr until it stops being a gacha, no matter how generous they are its a genre built on predation. indie games arent designed for capital as much as corporations and thats the best i could give now at this point.
One thing I always think about when it comes to discussions about powercreep, I think of my own account. I am a Dr Ratio fan. I prefarmed for him, saved up tons of fuel to spam the new Penacony domain to farm his BIS relics right away, and when I learned he was going to be given away for free... I used up my saved pulls to get his signature lightcone, plus his first eidolon. And all of that, just because I really liked him.
Now, one thing about my Ratio is that, he is not as good as he could be. I do have an E2S1 Aventurine supporting him (big fan of him as well, I skipped two patches for that) to apply three debuffs on enemies, but otherwise? No Robin, no Topaz (I haven't finished building Moze but I'm working on that). My Ratio team has been, consistently, Aventurine + E6 tingyun + E0S0 Silver Wolf. Yes, Silver Wolf. That other "dead/useless" character no one recommends. I got her on release by accident.
And, what does this all get me? My Ratio does between 80 to 100k every follow up attack. Compare that to an all E0 team with Robin and Topaz? I'm doing considerably less damage. A f2p team with all the best characters can pull 100-120k on each FUA from Ratio. I'm doing less damage than f2p players that just decided to spend horizontally. And, keep in mind, Ratio has been considerably outdone by Feixiao in today's meta (and I have not pulled for Feixiao).
Now, that may sound bad, but I would also like to point out another important thing. My Ratio team has consistently, and without much struggle mind you, pulled its weight on both MOC and ApoSha since I finished setting it up. No more than 4-5 cycles in MOC, no less than 3.3k points in ApoSha (and this is in setups where the enemies don't have weakness to imaginary, mind you, because in those, I clear MOC in 1 cycle and Aposha with 3.6 points).
So like. Yeah I can fully relate to the complaints. I can't use Yinyue-jun to clear MOC for fun nowadays, especially because I don't have, or ever plan on having Sparkle. I can't use Kafka outside SimUni because I don't plan on getting a Black Swan. I can understand why people complain they struggle using Blade nowadays. But like. I feel like, the point of "power creep is only as real as you let it be" rings very true.
Consistency is key honestly. Even if your account, with a Ratio that isn't the best compared to F2P accounts with Feixiao, it is still very important and impressive that you ARE able to clear! That is the point and I'm glad your account is a good example! You made good choices and (even though it's not a 0 cycle) you can clear all that you need to! Yeah, it really sucks that you can't use Imbibitor for clears, but hey, maybe one day.
I'm glad to see other people with good examples of the powercreep problem! Thank you for sharing!
Hi also a waifu/husbando F2P player, but with crazy luck XD
While yes I can do MoC and all endgame content with 11-12 stars almost every cycle and also act like you in some ways (didn't like Robin, doesn't have her and use Yukong instead for Feixiao) I think what mrPokke doesn't get is that that kind of mentality isn't fun for many people, people may not like Sparkle but every yt video will say she'd a must pull to increase the power of your DPS just so this patch Sunday appears and everyone says Sparkle is no longer useful, that's what people are annoyed and don't like
Also yeah, the problem with Pokke and many nom F2P players as you say is that they don't get the can't get eidolons and 80% of LCs, so many people won't trust them cuz they don't get your management issues fully
I started this game on 2.4, didn't know a single thing, but the more I progress the more I realize the mistakes that I made especially the reckless pullings that I did. I regretted pulling alot of LC, because all the jades I wasted there could've been used to get a character instead(even if I lose, it's still a character), I'm aware how strong LC are, just saying that instead of getting a LC, if there's an alternative then it's probably better to go for that.
At 2.6 I finally decided to start over, but this time I'm prepared, with my current account only having Sunday and Aventurine. Getting Herta and Castorice as my only 2 DPS for 3.x and mostly prioritize getting supports. It will take me a long while to clear endgames, but it's still worth it especially now that I have planned everything. As a F2P I really don't expect to clear everything, and I'm fine with that.
Yeah. Many content creators always showcase characters with their signatures, and many people just think that it's the right way to go, but early on, more characters is just more important!
It sounds like your new account is stacking up to be something amazing! Take your time and enjoy the game and the content you can clear! MOC 11 and 12 should be seen as just bonus content for extra rewards for those who want to invest a ton of time into the game! Good luck!
As I f2p I disagree with vertical investment point. Particularly vertical investments in supports. As f2p I don’t have many dps’s the reason being is I used those pulls to get Robin e1 and Fugue e1 who allows my firefly team and Feixiao team to steam roll a lot of the content. And these eidolons on Robin and fugue will last me a long time.
If a new follow up dps comes out who I like. They are already super charged by Robin.
I do agree get the eidolons on rerun is the way just to see if your supports will last the test of time
Yeah I see what you mean! Both vertical and horizontal investment are important. I more so meant that you shouldn't spread yourself too thin. I should've worded that better instead of just saying "never get eidolons" because I literally get some occasionally.
I found a really interesting comment in psychology where we associate achievements with self worth & i thought it could apply here
Sometimes we just need to chill with our expectations and accept reality that maybe our units for now aren't built properly and over time we strive to improve it but this is just my two cents
Btw, nice work with the channel dude. I've been slacking too much and with this much heat on HSR i need to step it up
Yeah exactly. Not like the player is "bad at the game" or that HoyoVerse isn't a predatory company. It's just that perhaps you have to accept that your units aren't as built as needed right now. People tend to want to deflect and not really accept that. It really isn't a big deal at all! Just take some time and build up!
Also thank you! Honestly right now is a great time to make an HSR video with all the drama and 3.0 on the horizon haha. Hopefully you make some more content! I'd love to see it!
Totally agree with you bud!
I'm a day 1 F2P with E2 Silverwolf... I'm convinced she might be the least useful E2 character in the game. And of course I pulled E0 Seele, E1S1 Sparkle and E1S1 Fu Xuan as well to try to live the mono quantum dream.
This team is functionally unplayable for me in the current endgame modes.
Despite this I still clear everything!
If I can still full clear endgame modes after spending effectively 10 limited characters worth of pulls for a team that doesn't work... well I honestly have no clue what other people are doing that makes it so they can't even clear endgame content.
Ooooh! I love the mono-quantum lineup! Glad you're still getting use out of it now! Good job for still being able to clear with that team! Some people just like to complain even when they have no idea what is going on.
What people don't say, is to build Eagle sets, on your debuffers, on most of your supports, and on most of your DPS, the easier a character can get their ult up, the better value the Eagle set has. Why? Because Action Advance is the thing that breaks the game. Eagle set Feixiao with a FuA comp? She gets 4-5 turns in the first cycle. Eagle Set Pela? She gets an extra turn every cycle. Gallagher? Get him to 143~ SPD and use Multiplication? MF gets so many turns you might as well call him Bearded Seele. HMC with DDD and Eagle set? Action Advance is the name of the game.
Mhm! Eagle set is AMAZING. For debuffers, it allows uptime to be better and Star Rail is a turn based game. The more turns you take, the better off you'll be!
I remember getting Feixiao when she released... I didnt know much about builds back then so I just plopped whatever set I had available on her. She could clear MoC 11 easily. Now, with like 65/160 crit ratio, I struggle to even beat Cocolia in MoC 10 WITH premium supports like Sunday, Aven and Topaz for stacks. (I didnt get robin) Powercreep is scary (for my wallet). Anyway great vid Gyoza!
"65/160 crit ratio" are you even trying. LOL. just farm better relics, no matter how many new characters you get, but if you don't know how to properly build them, you won't survive powercreep. Well built teams > new meta unit.
@@meursault.1984 i have literally no luck on relics T_T. but I will continue to try and farm
"If you're a waifu/husbando collector you can't expect to clear all the content", you people act like Moses came down the mountain with the "Stone Slabs of Game Design" and God decided that's how things work, and it's not just a lazy dev studio trying to milk more money out of the whales while making the experience worse for everyone else.
@@ogcipher4967 I know where you're coming from! However I also talk about how you actually kinda clear content by pulling who you want! HSR is a team building game, so hypothetically, if you didn't like any of the healers/tanks, you couldn't clear.
All of these is only my opinion and how I see the game! Nothing is for a matter of a fact or anything!
All that said, it is 100% the company that is making the game worse! Like honestly, you can hardly blame the consumer. I was just saying that you CAN work around the powercreep and unfair balancing!
Us CHAD Boothill pickers are truly men going their own way of star rail. /s
All jokes aside, its a cathartic sort of feeling now hearing the Firefly mains, the same people who said Boothill gets powercreep in 3 weeks, now struggle with content. While my E0S0 Boothill is still 2 or even 1 cycling MOC12 floors with 40% physical resist.
YES! Boothill is truly the GOAT. Crazy to see FF mains complain about powercreep now while Boothill flourishes haha.
@@GyozaStarRail Also man, there's a section where you mention pulling Robin and not using her. I feel that one thousand percent. When she got her 2.5 rerun, pretty much all my friends were rolling for her and that kinda goaded me into doing so. Looking back, I should stayed strong. Because where the hell is Robin gonna go in E0S1 Acheron and E0S0 Boothill? No where, that's where, and she's been practically benched for me since then.
Ngl I wasn't struggling myself this MoC with her so I'm surprised to hear that they did tbh. But ngl Boothill mains and Firefly mains been in this perpetual state of hating each other ever since her beta lmao.
And boothill has in my opinion never been bad, he definitely dies in speed when dealing with AOE situations or dealing with enemies who share health bars making him unable to proc passive. But Man will always be an amazing boss slayer until another break unit specifically powercreeps him like Firefly will deal with.
Also I can't say this MoC + Fugue didn't scream Boothill lmao.
But we can all agree, that the one who got powercrept and shafted was Rappa. Now that Fugue came out, Lingsha is now her rival lmao in aoe and superior in team building since she is the sustain so she can run a team of supports without worrying about them dying.
After a couple patch it’s clear that Boothill have higher cap while FF have higher floor and way more braindead to play. That’s why FF usage is so high but have lower average cycle clear. I’m firefly main and I never play her on manual 😂
It's really funny to me that Rappa and Lingsha are competitors instead of anyone else. Lingsha is just that insane.
Also yeah, this MoC is not even remotely tuned to Boothill. The trotters are nice early on to get pocket trickshot stacks, but other than that, they can be ignored due to Boothill's single target damage being wasted on trotters (even though they hit both bosses).
Tbh idc about powercreept if only the pace is slower but man this pacing is a bit fast ngl .. let's say seele she is really bad .. people say pull for robin and sunday ... Sure they are broken support but that does not fix seele problem being bad in the first place and also it does not fix support that is bad in the first place like yukong .. if the pacing were slower than this problem will take like 4 years to notice or more .. at least making f2p team worth to build than just needing to pull meta just to barely clears a 3 star
u opinion is really great. i agree with all of that. with right planing on pulling use stamina and game knowledge it enough to clear end game. even u can't clear this time just try next time don't force u self to pull meta character. it a real trap as f2p (or even BP+welkin) not enough to pull every character. dont jump into hype train or some Tierlist to pull character it depend on u account too.
i really hate when see CC overreact on powercreep topic. it make ppl blame powercreep for it without try to looking other problem.
i also skip Sunday i dont think he is that good for my account cuz he can't pull Robin. Bronya or Tingyun with Robin combo is good enough for me.and i dont have jingyuan. so i dont wanna pull him just because future Remembrance character. if i really want him. i just wait for rerun.
3.27% rate up luck as F2P here as well... I absolutely feel you, hopefully we will get better in 3.0+
I did this MoC in 7 cycles with Hypercarry Serval 1st side and Fugueless Boothill 2nd side. You just need to know what you are doing and you can clear anything.
Man... nice to see another person suffering with me. That...sounds bad haha. Good that we're not alone.
Also nice job on those clears! Love that use of Serval!
I thought I was the only person in the world that pulled Acheron for Jiaoqiu lol
Haha yeah! Well, I had her before, but I honestly did not like using her and tried not to until I got Jiaoqiu,
Im sorry but what is this stupid argument? "Powercreep doesn't exist... just pull better"??? What? And then everyone saying yea this character got powercrept that character got powercrept... but guys powercreep doesnt exist only if you are stupid and didnt save to pull for the latest meta characters! What is going on?
I don't think that's the argument anyone is making. It's not that powercreep doesn't exist. It certainly does. The point is that it IS real, but you can work around it. In fact, you don't even need to pull for meta.
We’ve found HIM BOIS!!! The unluckiest F2P still clearing content.
DAMNNN RIGHT
Wow, it's almost like you took the words right out of my mouth at the beginning there as I'm made the same arguments and comments in other hsr yt vids discussing the topic, ty good sir!
Glad to see other people with similar opinions!
When it comes to powercreep we gotta remember different gachas have different power creep ex: i play dragonballl legends and characters can gwt power creep manly cause of hold they are but they zenkai awaken them to update there kit stats making them more modern after they release or they fumble the bag there have been moments like that. Star rails power creep is very interesting cause harmony in my opinion can never get power creep at least until we get the one that just does every support buff in the game wheres dps characters dont really get powercrep they just need that one character to boost them ex: jing yuan with sunday buff but characters like blade need potentially both a new buff character for them and or a specific relic set specifically to help them
I'm a husbando puller. I got Jiaoqiu and Aventurine... I pulled Acheron just to complete a team... no LC.
You can't expect to clear endgame right of the bat. You need investment of time
@@RandomGaming0021 Mhm! I think people have this random expectation to clear immediately.
@GyozaStarRail For a long time, I always lacked that last star from the endgame contents, but I farmed and grinded to push that last bit.
Funny enough, it's sometimes the unusual team combo that will make it work.
This discussion is cropping up a lot lately and I think part of the issue is how people perceive "power creep". I'm not going to say the game doesn't have any that's just objectively untrue, but even before my premium teams were built I never really struggled to clear endgame modes once I was properly ready to tackle them. But I've never and most likely never will 0 cycle, because so long as I clear within the reward requirements I'm good. However the majority of the community these days sees 0 cycles as some sort of baseline of viability not the challenge it's supposed to be. To those ppl, a simple hp inflation that increases the clear by couple of cycles is cause for the most obnoxious doom posting imaginable. Another thing is that most people just expect to brute force endgame once they have a team ready to go, but neglect the fact the rotational power ups are a big part of the balancing on these modes. As a personal anectode, last dot pf I could barely hit 50k because I have none of the desired units, but once I tweaked my break team slightly by swapping some lc and relics around while utilising the buff I was able to get61k on the 2nd try, which was rewarding in itself because I felt like I overcame a challenge.
Yeah! The rotation of metas is obviously a little awkward, but it IS a core aspect of HSR whether people want to acknowledge that or not. Sometimes, follow up just won't hit the same, but sometimes, it'll go crazy.
I also agree that is a bit silly that the community has seemed to turn to the idea that 0 cycles are the "standard" or what a character should be doing.
aside from MoC, PF, and AS the meta doesn't affect anything since story and event quest is easily doable and with a lot of added mechanics to make it more fun than difficult. a friend quit his day1 acc after black swan and give it to his bro who just use it to play with char that he doesn't have in his own acc(the jingliu is very good) and maintain it minimally. later the friend wanted to return so he returned it with sunday and his lc as the only new char and saved up 350 pulls. i dare say this is a great investment to 3.0 and just prove how the meta doesn't really matter due to how little it gives in return.
Yeah. People who want to just play for fun and pull who they want have no reason to ever invest in meta and full clear endgame. The reward for investment is just not worth it.
Man I remember being excited for MoC resetting because more stellar jades yk, but no, I get met with this insane powercreep which is just stupid HP inflation again. I haven't even cleared Floor 12 yet despite having all the current "meta" units (Feixiao, Robin, Topaz, Firefly, Ruan Mei, Lingsha) because I'm just so done with how it is right now. I was frustrated that day so I'll probably go back again and clear it soon even if it takes me 10 cycles, I don't really care, last MoC was like that for me too. I never invested in any eidolons but I did pull for a few signature lightcones. I'm also one of the few players who didn't pull for like any Nihility unit, I don't own a single limited Nihility character including Acheron and I see every team comp uses her nowadays. I know that, with the characters I own, I have the right teams to clear content, but I'm still here struggling to beat MoC (thanks HP inflation), just barely beat AS 4, and I can't even clear Pure Fiction 4 with 3 stars. It's probably my relics ngl, but I'm tired of farming them and getting nothing, thank goodness 3.0 is going to help with that by letting you reroll enhanced relics and select substats too. But yeah. Powercreep is an issue. For everybody. And I hope they fix this because making content "harder" by adding either more RNG or continously increasing HP is just making it a "who can deal more damage" contest and the point of endgame is to create content that's challenging yes, but also rewarding at the same time so you feel like the effort you put in was all worth it. But I just don't see it right now.
I mean the content last patch was ridiculously easy for Feixiao. I see some players with better teams struggling to clear so I can only imagine it’s due to poor gearing decisions. I don’t particularly enjoy more HP but the game would be kind of bland without it.
I honestly agree with your assesment, overall I hate the direction the game is going but its not impossible to deal with I have completely abyssmal luck late late 70s most of the time an a 15% 50/50 win rate and am mostly a husbando puller and im clearing most endgame content and only losing 80 jades around half the time which is manageable especially since the newest character who i actually use in my e2s1 jiaoqui, heck I think it would be completely possible for me to win if it wasn't for me completely bricking myself because i refuse to play or pull for break
Thank you and I'm glad you agree!
I don't blame you at all for not being into break at all! Heck, I honestly still don't really care for it. I just love Boothill (the #1 Husbando). You are working your way up to clearing the endgame though! So good luck and I hope your pulls go well!
Damage Dealer unit in HSR get powercrepted when their first rerun held is so real. You can like 0 cycle in a patches they released, and then they coughed by trying to 3 cycle later.
Yeah. DPS units tend to fall off way faster than anything else in HSR.
I personally don't have problem with people being stupid with their shitty takes, heck I'm glad now that many are taking part in this discussion. What bugs me the most is that Pokke willingly pointed his fingers towards the players, but isn't real enough to call out Hoyo for their poor balancing, that's kinda insane to me. Oh your waifu can't clear? Then YOU, the players, are greedy, nope not the devs, not the company with their shitty predatory practice. I get that it doesn't really matter as long as F2p can still clear endgame, and that it wasn't for cassual to begin with. But when someone complains about the powercreep issue, the first thing he blamed is the players, the "stupid and greedy" people who falled for the FOMO he himself was paid to fuel, how ironic.
YES. That is a very good point. I agree with what he said but not HOW he said it. Creating a tweet with such a hostile and rude wording really really put people off. I don't even blame them. Hoyoverse is a company that makes gacha games, they CAN give more, and yet they don't. Greed is present.
That being said, there is still a bit of greed amongst the players. Not in a serious sense, like how companies can genuinely be greedy, but just with how people manage their resources in game.
I'm honestly really glad you bring up Pokke's fault in this. I definitely should've mentioned something about that in the video, but I was so focused on the idea of powercreep haha.
When will people finally understand that the issue is not in new players wanting to clear in 2 weeks or that a character doesn't 0 cycle anymore. This is a gatcha game, you PAY for these units, and I feels HORRIBLE when this unit starts feeling like sh1t after 2 patches. THIS IS NOT HOW IT SHOULD BE. THAT IS THE ISSUE OF POWERCREEP. And what does Pokke say? "Just buy something else for the team". Yeah, just spend more money, forehead. Buy something else for your Jungliu. Oh, you main Blade?... let's hope he gets something I guess?
I understand how you feel, but characters like Imbibtior, Jingliu, and other characters are still able to clear content F2P. Even Blade is if you really hyper invest into him and his teammates. No money needed.
It IS stupid that we have to deal with old units falling out of favor. Paying can only get you so far (unless you get like E5S5 lol).
The game is predatory. I don't think (or I hope) nobody is debating that. The real issue is that people CAN and do still clear with old characters, some people just don't want to invest in new stuff for their old units.
It sucks but sadly it's a gacha game. Hoyo is problematic, but players like to take all the blame off of themselves. It's MOSTLY not the players fault, and players have to really try and work hard to get around powercreep.
@@GyozaStarRail I shouldn't get "managable at best" for 200 dollars. "They can clear f2p" bullcrap, they are clearing with the power of 100s retries by the skin of their teeth and it's horrible. And of this sh1t keeps going, one day Blade, Jingliu and Seele won't be even 7 cycling, because new units get better and better scaling and the enemies growing more and more HP because that's the only way Hoyo can think of to prevent new units from one-shotting everything with a press of an E skill.
The blame is FULLY on Hoyoverse. The only players I can blame are those players who argue that the powercreep isn't an issue, cuz they are enabling the company to keep going.
@@ryzhik9608 I mean, it's not even by the skin of their teeth though! People have been able to clear content in... much much less tries than that. You can watch streams of F2Ps first attempts, heck, even my videos.
New characters come out that buff older characters (like Sunday and Jing Yuan). There are ways to combat the powercreep in the game. If you wait and save instead of pulling for every new character, old characters can be buffed too.
The argument is not that HoyoVerse is all good. The company is very much not all good. It's that though times may be tough, it isn't over if you play your hand right.
It's more so to give hope because HoyoVerse sure as hell isn't going to help us.
@@GyozaStarRail Jingyuan is a happy accident. He had a mechanic to buff. Everyone else aside from Blade is too straightforward as a dps to buff.
We don't have a good roadmap in this game for us to "wait and save". We don't know who is running next, and the only official way for us to learn is to watch a stream that happens like 11 days before the patch.
@@ryzhik9608 I wont lie that Jing Yuan got really lucky. The thing is that players CAN just wait and save. It sucks missing patches, but MOC 11 and 12 are supposed to very "hard" (artificially inflated for whales). You miss out on some jades, but overall still get alot from MOC 1-10.
I mean, I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I find Hoyos practices greedy, I'm not giving them money or defending them, but just offering what you CAN do.
i played as hard of a meta slave as I could before I quit star rail and I still got cucked. I initially wanted to go the fun route and pull for Jing Yuan because he was cool but when I saw how hard Acheron powercrept him I just decided to get her e2s1 and paired her with sparkle, pela. Right after I got e1s1 Jingliu on her rerun which at the time was still considered to be the second best dps in the game. It did not last more than like 1-2 MOCS (and at the time apocolopytic shadow got introduced), where my team started to struggle hard. Not only was Jingliu struggling even with e0s1 Ruan mei and Ice Weakness on the other side, my e2 acheron started taking 2-3 cycles to finish out her side which was insane considering how much I invested into her. I tried to play smart and I was already on the brink of not being able to clear, and I had to skip break because I was low on pulls and I wasn't a fan of firefly. Unlucky me because it turns out they were HARD HARD meta. I still managed to clear Apoc but it was absolutely miserable. I benched my e1s1 Jingliu who I had months of saving accumulated for in the span of 2 miserable months. I quit shortly after and don't plan on coming back.
I don't blame you! I think of ton of people are forgetting that Jingliu WAS good for a very long time. It really really sucks that the moment you invested into her is when she actually started to decline. (Not THAT very moment, but the next patches after that.)
I don't blame you for quitting after that.
honestly this current moc is the first ever full clear ive done ever since i started in 2.0, despite pulling mostly good characters(i actually enjoy them all, i dont own any 5 star i dislike other than gepard) i accidentally managed to get the perfect(well, almost) team for my favorite character, back in ruan mei's rerun i pulled her because she looks beautiful and people said shes good, i never used her. then rappa got drip marketted, i said ill pull her no matter what shes so cool, and then fugue came out, shes also so cool and just so happened to be good, now im a proud e1s1 rappa main with ruan mei fugue and gall....
and i also dont have robin, and wont get her even on her next rerun, smh
That's a pretty cool break team though! Glad you have that going for ya!
Good video Gyoza
Thanks!
The game hasn't changed tbh you pull new characters, you build them, you clear the content and If you get lucky you can pull more characters than usual rinse and repeat. If people just want to play same teams all the time than obsessing over clearing endgame in a gacha designed to sell you new characters may not be the best choice.
We can blame Hoyo for sure but vast majority of the game is accessible for casuals and even MOC give you 30 cycles you don't need to clear in 10 cycles just to experience the content. There definitely isn't any excuse for people to not be able to clear MOC 10, PF 2 and AS 2 though and just doing them you get most of the rewards from endgame without even trying.
There being a little more reward and challenge for players who want to meta game and be excited about their new character doing massive dmg isn't going to hurt anyone. Its actually some of the CCs we have in the community making people obsessed with endgame and 0 cycling when Hoyo themselves puts more emphasis on the story and events.
It is always smart to take into accountability for your own mistakes and Star Rail. I'm glad you (and other people) understand that Hoyo is to blame... partially.
Anyone who TRULY wants to clear endgame (like it's their main goal), and wants to put in the smallest amount of work, should at LEAST be able to clear MOC 10. My No Warps account can typically clear MOC 10 3 stars.
It's a really good point you bring up that... nobody is forcing anyone to clear MOC 12. Hoyo mostly cares about stories and events. I recall when MOC 12 first came out, I just saw it as bonus content for those who truly cared about endgame, while casuals could still get great rewards 1-10.
@@GyozaStarRail MOC 10 is basically what people are asking for the hp inflation has been way slower you don't need the most meta teams and overall less stress. They won't settle for this simply because a higher difficulty exists.
@@kennethyoung7457exactly this everyone forgets that we got 2 extra stages for added difficulty not to mention each characters BisS teams got way stronger too.
Great video man. Took the words right out of my mouth 🎉
Thanks!
what does playing smart mean ? do i need to spending moneys to pull for multiple character to form a new premium team to be able to keep up with the meta ? if Hoyo still keeping the HP inflation to the point it basically required to get the lightcones to be able to comfortable clearing it , Does it means i should go with vertical investment for a team and get 36 stars 3-4 times a year when Hoyo decide to give moc the buff that favor for those team ? Should Moc 12 should be a whale and dolphin playground and not for player who doesn't strictly follow the meta ?
I understand how you feel. However, you don't have to pull for the meta to be able to clear content! It does suck missing some stars at first, but that will give you time to build some characters. I personally believe horizontal investment is smarter at first. Get a set of good characters and if they hold up, THEN invest more into them, rather than potentially wasting all of your pulls. HSR is a single player game. The only thing you miss out on by waiting is a small handful of jades.
Pulling e1 kafka has been the best decision as an f2p because I love her
Honestly I'm glad! Good to see people enjoying it! And hey, if you can clear all content, even better!
@GyozaStarRail I've been using dotcheron and firefly and I've been clearing all of the endgame content since then. It was a very pleasant surprise when I had to use a standard dot team this current moc as my firefly team just couldn't clear and I needed acheron for the second side, and it ended up working!
@@backtrackx3 Oh snap that's cool! Maybe DOT isn't as dead as people think haha
I payed 30$ on her rerun because I love blackswan. I barely ever use either of them lmao. I’m still hoping for a solid dot support or sustain to bring it back.
I honestly always decide to pull a character if I like them and if I find them strong. Additionaly though when they help with Relic farm pain😅.
Pokke is right but he worded it in a way that triggered some people but if you have a working brain. You shouldnt get easily triggered by a guy who plays gacha games and makes himself look like a clown (typical 1% cursed CN boy Mr Pokke)
Powercreep exists thats true
But if you dont let it happen to you and If you know what youre doing, its non existent.
Why? Zmm, Noblies, and other pure f2p players exists to prove that you can beat powerceep w/o spending
Even wuwa has pure no-pull f2p players who can clear every area in Tower of adversity and holograms
Mhmmm. A ton of people's main takeaway is "you're bad, it's all your fault, Hoyo did nothing wrong." When literally isn't what ANYONE is saying.
Like you said, it's there yeah, but if you have the proper knowledge and invest the right amount of time, you're good.
I agree about 90% or so of your point, what i not agree is the part main stat better than sub stats but i can sympathize because it’s take much effort on doing the vid.
The main stat sub stat problem is right in every case but the main point of that is player don’t utilize game resources, they can have a rainbow set which have a right main stat decent substat still better than having a right set wrong main stat decent sub stat almost every time
Yeah substats over mainstats is only true like... 30% of the time. If your DPS is lacking what they need, it'll be a huge DPS loss. That being said, with many supports, they don't scale off of anything, so sacrificing some survival for actual good stats is fine.
I’m pulling herta and gunna try investing her to become cracked, see how far a f2p can vertically invest
Ohhh that sounds really interesting! Good luck! I bet that decision will benefit you for a long time! From her Kit, it seems like she may become the new top DPS!
I started playing in 1.6 and got Ruan Mei as my 1st 5 star at like 20 pity and Ratio was free a fews days later which set up my acc. I got Kafka cause she's Kafka and she's cool so I pulled for Black Swan the next patch. So my 2 teams where Follow-up and dot. I quit after losing to Welt on Aventurine's banner and came back and got Fu Xuan on her rerun and I managed to bounce back. I still can't clear MoC 12 but idgaf cause I have my Nihility ladies with Fugue now and my Follow up goats with Ratio, Jade and Aventurine. It hurts to see Dot falling off but hey I still enjoy the game
And that's what important! Your account seems super fun and I'm glad you're able to enjoy the game! Who cares about MOC 12 when the end goal of the game is to have fun. Maybe DOT will even come back one day.
@GyozaStarRail off topic but your character looks cute
@dudzthe21st thanks!!
Maybe play Limbus Company, then.
I can't believe I've been playing this game for about 617 days now.
I remember back then when hitting 100k with my Seele is super impressive. 😂
@@bokayu ahh yeah time flies! Now 100k is almost nothing! Still cool, but dang.
I have two things to say one I made new f2p account in 2.0 I was able to clear every endgame max stars in 2.3 I still do it with the account
Two if you want to be safe always pull for hyper carry CRT DPS and CRT support they will age well
Sunday+ any 1.X CRT DPS is amazing Jiaoqiu will age fine why because we will get CRT DPS that deal damage from her/his Ultimate
How wow that's honestly really great! Nice work!
If you are playing for meta or to clear endgame content that is very very solid Advice. Sunday alone is such a good option. Jiaoqiu too. Supports are just honestly some of the most important things to invest in.
@@GyozaStarRail
If you think more about it The Herta being Ice CRT DPS is the reason why we see more of Jingliu vs Moc 12 in 2.7 than before even though enemies have more HP same happen with blade after Feixiao and Yunli were released
I've been looking through youtube a lot these past couple days for people's opinions ever since pokke's twitter post and so far, I think your opinion aligns most closely with mine on this issue. Powercreep exists but it's not at an unreasonable..
For context, I am a day 1 f2p player who has played every day (because I love turn based games) I have full starred every endgame ever since 1.2. So far in the roughly 20 months of the game, I have only pulled a total of 8 limited 5*characters those being Seele e0s1 (1.0), Silverwolf e0s0, Luocha e0s0 (1.1) Kafka e0s0 (1.2) Ruan Mei e0s1 (1.6; pulled e6s4 in 2.3 rerun) Acheron e0s1 (2.1) Robin e0s1 (2.5 rerun), and Rappa e0s0 (2.6)
I skipped a lot of the so called "must pulls" pushed by CCs because for the longest time I only wanted to pull og honkai characters. The only characters who I pulled due to friend pressure and not following my own criteria were Robin and Rappa. Heck, because I had been so frugal with my pulls, I was able to get an e6s4 of my favorite character (RM) by the time of her rerun in 2.3 and that took 754 pulls.
Of the limited 5* that I pulled, I don't use Seele anymore, Kafka, Silverwolf, and Robin rarely, and the other four very often.
in conclusion, powercreep exists but is definitely manageable through the right investments. I think this is ironically demonstrated by my hard head saving 750+ pulls to max power my favorite charater whilst still clearing all endgame during my long periods of saving. Also for the longest time I didn't even have a break dps for the vast majority of the 2.x patches, nor did I have the best support for Acheron. (I still don't) If I can do these things, I'm pretty sure that if a player has the time and desire, could learn the game, and eventually build 2 teams capable of clearing endgame.
I see you are a very patient person with your pulls! Honestly kudos to you! Hopefully that Ruan Mei is treating you well!
I'm glad you agree and are another example of being smart with pulls to combat powercreep! If someone was to actually lock in and tryhard, they could surely beat all the content easy F2P!
A cool side effect of pulling and using so few characters is that those characters will eventually have extremely highly refined relics bc there's so much more time and resources to focus on each of them. The same can be said regarding the knowledge of the intricacies and nuances of their kits function.
@@tianyouzhang4301 Mhm! That's how many people (such as myself) are able to get decent rolls. It is luck, yes, but a lot of it comes from only needed to farm one specific set rather than many new ones.
you've got a skill issue if your blade can't clear moc
That is true haha. He CAN clear but it takes way more cycles than anyone else. If I'm going for ease of clear I just ignore him sadly.
I love the part you said about sub stats. My Sparkle has an attack Orb because thay shit has 10 speed
@@guidrydimmick EXACTLY!! It's worth it to sacrifice some things to have your character actually work properly.
so my sparkle who used to have good mix of spd and cdmg
i already changed her build to a point that its weird to some people
but for my account, its good enuff
shes 173 spd with only 70+ cdmg
using a ddd s5
with an er rope of course
and her only role is to push my acheron for more turns and provide sp to my sp hungry team of
acheron,sparkle,aventurine and pela
why this team is sp hungry
pela using free silverwolf lc with an eagle set
so most time she want to maximize eagle set so sp needed to use almost all her turns to ensure ult charged
then of course basic attack acheron is not good idea
To be fair, that's actually not the worst idea. Sparkle's AV, SP gen, and buffs are still pretty potent! I can see how that would work for you!
Pela and Aven can MOSTLY be Positive, but wanting to max out stack for Acheron changes that a bit.
@@GyozaStarRail and also to add
my acheron is just only e0s1
but i already able to move pass the con of not having 2 other nihility
cuz my acheron sometimes can clear better than some other people acheron teams
and also i want to play sparkle and acheron so this is a good work around
I agree and disagree with some of your points I understand the whole you have to investment your account the right way Im definitely one of those people since I don’t pull for LC or eidolon. I Just pull for the character that I want.
Now there is one important thing that you never mention in the video what is the best way to address the power creep. One CC I watch mention the best way to address power creep is to buff older characters.
For me I think they should use the pure fiction and Apocalyptic shadow buff mechanics where you can select three different option for break, follow up, and dot. For some reason this mechanics is missing in Moc instead we have the weird trotter mechanics these are not viable since each trotter has different weakness you can’t take advantage of those.
I would like to hear what your idea of counteract power creep other than invest better. That is a great point and I agree with that, but that shouldn’t be the only way to deal with power creep.
Glad to see some new perspectives!
Yeah! I feel like what I said in this video (only bringing up investing better) leaves a lot to be desired.
Buffing older characters (such as straight up using items that increase stats in some ways) is a very cool thing that some gachas do. FEH and FGO are good examples. I would LOVE if HoyoVerse added something like that, however, I really doubt that.
I do actually like your idea alot though. Adding a choice of buffs would be really helpful. You can still choose "buffs" in MOC but it would be cool if they were more like the new PF buffs.
Counteracting powercreep in a game like this can be hard. Because as a F2P player, there's only so much you can do. Investing ALL resources wisely is very important, not just pulls. You could just, wait and stockpile jades. Miss out on some clear rewards, but then make your decision on who to pull after their meta is gone. That would take an extremely long amount of time though (and honestly wouldn't be "fun" for me).
Can you also show us your f2p stats and build please? I also want to try your team comps much appreciated!
Of course! Actually, my last video was a clear of this MOC, so if you wanted, you could skip to the end there and check em out!
I disagree that Seele is useless cause i've seen E0S0 Seele clear this MoC, people say DoT is useless and personally i cleared this MoC (Svarog) with a Kafka/B.Swan team in 5 cycles. People say Jingliu dropped off and sucks but i used her to beat the bug in 3-4 cycles (depending on crit rng lol). Every 5* character can be used to clear whether it's 0 cycle or 10 cycles, it still counts as a 3* clear. If you invest in team synergy and characters (traces,levels,relics) these older 'power crept' characters can still do their jobs.
When Pokke released that tweet, I'm probably one of the few who despite his bad wording understand what he meant, i get where he was coming from. So it was so funny so many went all haywire cause of it. I love Gachasmack's content but i watched his stream reacting to the Pokke 1hr long video and he was speaking of a 'try hard' and not thinking about it in a casual player mindset.
@@izumolee6714 Yeah that's valid. Seele is just personally useless for me haha.
That's nice though! Investment and proper planning can really beat powercreep.
Yeah. The only problem with Pokke's tweet is how many people saw it as a personal attack. I'm glad I was the only one thinking that Smack's mindset wasn't exactly perfect. Smack is a goat but that stream was a little off I would say.
GachaSmack think people's can't control themselves from pulling especially f2p.
The player and the company are always at lose- lose situation. Due to the fact that hsr is a turn based game, they cant really rely on player skilly like genshin.
If they dont make the endgame harder, players gonna cry.
When they make that the enemys are glass cannons, than the team comp is different and players gonna cry.
I tend to never pull for characters i do not like, which has made me skip nearly every meta unit in 2.x and i still cleared everything the game threw at me with my DoT/FuA comps (no Ruan Mei, Feixiao, Acheron or anything break related).
Although my DoT comp has finally shown its age, which isn't a problem cause one of the characters i've been expecting will arrive in 3.0, Herta, i'll use her until my DoT comp gets some love.
HSR balancing/planning from the devs is in a very very sorry state, at the end of the day, it's a gacha, it is predatory by nature, it'll never change, people will always spend money so the companies behind those games won't really see any reason to change so what can i do if i just so happen to like the game? Adapt or uninstall.
Pulling for waifus only is fine, but if you also want to clear endgame consistently then you just have to be a tiny bit more selective with your pulls, for example, don't pull a DPS if you don't need one urgently, save it for the next waifu or husbando that actually fills a spot or enhanced a comp you already have, don't spread yourself too thin and you'll do just fine even with older units.
I'm really glad to hear your take as I find it extremely fair. It's like what I wanted to say. Pulling for waifus only is fine, but if you need to do more, you may have to break that a bit. Skip the characters you like occasionally for the next one.
As you said, it's a gacha game. It's predatory and that's not the consumers fault but... That's how these kind of games work sadly.
Thank you for your comment and good luck with The Herta!!
Controversial opinion: I think this MoC looks particularly bad because we don't have access to RMC yet. And I honestly foresee RMC to be cracked with the True Damage Buff that people will be running one side with Herta or Serval and this conversation will turn into "See? Power creep wasn't an issue at all! We just had to wait a bit" when honestly we should be mad at the fact they're not letting up on adding new characters and should just directly buff the old characters so they're still usable. They should slow down a few patches and let Reruns catch up, on top of adding ways to vertically invest in our favorites that isn't just pulling for Eidolons.
And if Pulling for Eidolons is the only way to go, having the Eidolons available for purchase in the Starlight Shop would go a long way. WuWa does this, there's no excuse why HSR can't do this also.
That is actually a really good point! This MOC will become LEAGUES easier for everyone once RMC comes out. Does that make it okay? Not at all! People can clear yes, but it wouldn't hurt to give F2P players more options like buying Eidolons like you said.
For me is hella crazy that they spect to clear everything without not now how their characters do , frfr for once we have a hard cool game like hsr ( not like easy pece genshin) and they rlly trying to take that from dat even hoyo say at the start of the game have say that the game will be complicated than the others games , like if u don’t like it just do history or secondary missions there’s a million thing to do en hsr and the crying that they can’t clean moc with their seele with lyxn, again if u want to lock in takes time and dedication again this is not genshin impact ( i say that bc i know a lot of players come from there and is way easier )
The ease of on launch MoC makes ppl delusion of a unit actual strength. Like on launch most if not all dps had weakness tailored to them, enemies mechanics tailored to them, MoC turbulence tailored to them, like those are at 300% performance. So it creates an illusion that they dont need to invest much and still clears because i already cleared it once why cant i do it again.
Like against all the power creep people bitching about, 1.x characters still performs fine at E0 (or themselves at E1/E2 and/or with supports E1/E2), like Seele have the fastest clear base on China data on current MoC. The condition for a character to be good is no longer "brute force everything" but rather now they need to to align with weaknesses. For example DHIL, so called "outdated" can still do Bananamusement or the current True Sting fine because they are Imaginary weak.
The rate at HP increase is somewhat "concerning" but imho, only til now is the HP is at the mark that it is difficult to be worth calling "end game content" where only people who actually built their units and know how to play the game can clear and not just bunch of people that have 8/8/8 lv 70 LC press auto and still expect to clear.
That is very much! Obviously a character is going to be the most broken in THEIR patch and not during another rotation.
Clears, especially endgame clears, take a lot of time and A LOT of investment to clear if you are F2P. People however just want to clear with low investment and pull for every character.
So, here's a giant irony: On the red corner, endgame content abt Hsr take account for majority are *0T, leviathans, 80k fiction, 7.5k apoc* . There's literally no content for casual at all, because tryhard always take, or steal the spotlight.
And on the blue corner some players have the nerve, the balls to say: *Hsr is FtWoP FrIeNdLy and catered toward casual* .
Now which side is more correct? Forgive me for being toxic and nihilistic, but by the red corner's statistics, Hsr is a "sink or swim" game made only for the likes of tryhards like Xolze, Lisara, Eidehgaming while the casuals just sunk in contents made by the tryhards that they waste resources mimicking a fraction of them, just to have a "decent acc to beat endgame".
Oh I don't blame you at all for being nihilistic! The game certainly is meant to make you spend because well... It's a gacha game.
MOC 12 was honestly "bonus" content for those tryhards/whales. MOC 1-10 still gets good rewards, so those rewards are just for those who really really tryhard/spend. That being said, F2Ps CAN still clear, but it's considerably harder.
You have exquisite taste in characters ans based opinions. What are your 3.0 pulling plans?
- fellow Boothill main and day 1 defender
Haha thank you very much!
Boothill is my favorite character, so I've been thinking of getting his LC and perhaps Eidolons, but Mydei is certainly on my list.
bro did NOT CLEAR the previous pure fiction lmao 2:05 first side was impossible without break
I mean... I did tho. I even showed that I did.
@@GyozaStarRail i was being facetious lmao i was tryna say thats impressive
@joustingknight2088 OH! I was so confused lmaoo.
@@GyozaStarRail Did u stream or posting u clear it i think itd be cool to watch
@joustingknight2088 I wish I did. All I have is that from Hoyolab though.
I started playing 2 patches ago, as a f2p i spent almost everything on rappa, e1s1, at least now i have fugue 😅
Haha that sounds like a really fun team comp though!!
Powercreep is real but that doesn't mean you can't clear the end game content with your powercrept characters.
EXACTLY!! People are acting like characters are COMPLETELY dead now (even I'm guilty of feeling that way), but the truth is that old characters can still clear content!
I wish i were a bird
OHMYGAH
One point in favor, does the game give you the tools to make all the content? YEAH
Does that mean that I have to punish you unnecessarily for misjudging a character or simply not giving them real support as is the case with blade? no
Does that mean that it's okay that I don't have to give you 4-star alternatives to essential mechanics such as overtaking actions or super break? no (assuming the MC can compensate you well for the damage to the team)
Does that mean that you get frustrated because the Late game is basically a character check and that the ability is almost not necessary if you have the banner character and you don't have it? neither
I can honestly understand the defense of certain things but as someone who came back from 2.2 and someone who has played more than 13 to 15 gachas games, it doesn't change the fact that Star rail is doing it wrong.
although again surely in 3.0 the characters are better with the new mechanics. but one thing does not eliminate the other
One thing I like a lot of people overlook is that I'm not.. defending a giant company. Compared to the "mistakes" the player base is making, HoyoVerse is making actual predatory decisions that make the game worse.
It's not a question of who's worse. It's HoyoVerse 100%. But, the player CAN still work around the issues if they truly wanted to. Not like the issues aren't there.
You seem really knowledgeable on the topic of gacha games though and I appreciate your comment!
as a brand new player would you recomend going for herta or feixiao? i like them both for different reasons but i'm afraid of herta not being that good in ST and feixiao not being good in AOE
PROBABLY The Herta. It seems like she'll be good everywhere!
@@GyozaStarRail then again, by the time i reach endgame they'll both be mid tier :)
@@rickmel-q7m Ahah yeah... that certainly does happen... If you wanted, you could just hoard all of your pulls until you can fully invest in one character!
@@rickmel-q7m Both of those units can still carry you to at least MOC 10, even if they get powercrept. If you are a brand spanking new player though... yea, don't worry too much about endgame. Though you are at a phase of your journey where you can genuinely just pull for whoever you 1. like aesthetic/story wise and 2. like power wise at the current state of the game.
I pulled for whoever the fuck at the beginning of the game and now even though I'm stuck with a few DPSs that fell off, I'm still waiting on their returns with new characters or even investing into them.
Honestly, even though it's the talk of the town, don't be a meta slave and just pull on your fav characters and then invest in their teams if you REALLY want to care about endgame.
(edit: Also I recommend getting Lingsha as your sustain, even if she gets powercrept later on (not sure how but hey) you will appreciate her healing and utility, trust me.)
I can't agree with the guy. He's incredibly out of touch with the average f2p player experience, as he has "oilers" that fund his pulls and "account managers" that do the tedious bits of the game for him.
That plus he deliberately causes drama (he actually admits to this sometimes) and so often his takes are done to actually stir drama, then farm it the next day for his stream, while saying things like "you all misinterpreted my point" to save himself from the backlash.
Y'know I think that's valid.
Mr. Pokke (and honestly most CCs) just don't understand the F2P experience as you said. When you have people who literally get on your account for you to do stuff, you can't say you relate to the player base anymore.
Even with his new account, it's like... Is it reaaaally the F2P experience..?
That being said though, I do think his idea of how powercreep is real, but can be combatted by the players is true.
I just wish he wasn't so content farmy.
The people getting triggered by mrpokke:
Gets into a GACHA game with a heavy emphasis on TEAM building.
Chases waifus/husbandos and have no resources left to guarantee any "meta" supports or vertical investment (which tbh isn't actually needed. people are still clearing with e0 seele).
Starts having difficulty full clearing ENDGAME. Surprised pikachu face.
And we havent even dug deeper into how these same people define difficulty/powercreep. Lots of them tbh are just complaining that their 1 cycle now turned into a 3-4 cycle. 🤷
Mhmmm! At the end of the day, its a team based gacha game. If you pull for only what you want, you'd struggle a bit, that's how it works. People just don't realize that. Also, of course when a character comes out, they're going to be more powerful since everything is tied to them. Once that endgame cycle goes away, of course they'll be weaker. I agree with you haha.
Building Supports squishy AF, is just asking for Disaster waiting to happen.
DMG% Orbs with the "wrong element + no Speed subs at all" are worthless for them.
Then complains and puts the blame why the Sustains cannot prevent One shots from supports, and restarting things all over again.
Haha a lot of people definitely are like that. Of course, you'd want a hp or def orb, but getting the right stats with them can be very difficult! Just a temporary solution to a problem until you get better stuff. My Gallagher has been able to sustain my Fugue and Bronya with random orbs though!
Sure, in some situations you get unlucky and have to restart, but that's the tradeoff for being able to clear content!
I do agree though with your last point. Sustains can only do so much, if you are someone who dislikes Aventurine, Fu Xuan, or any other meta sustains, you're sadly outta luck.
I don't know if you're referring to something I said, but I did not mean to say no speed subs haha. The entire point of using wrong orbs is if they actually have subs you want (like speed).
@GyozaStarRail My Current Sustains, E6 Gallagher and Fu Xuan is still working for me....for my Acheron and Feixiao teams, that I am not sure if I still need Lingsha....
when I am also going for THE Herta in the next patch.
There's also Tribbie and Castorice in the horizon....and My F2P @ss can only save so much.
Gosh yeah so many good things in the horizon. It feels rough to save and miss stuff you really want, but good luck! Hopefully they come home early and Herta helps you a ton!
To be honest...
Power creep is a thing for a long time...
That's how gacha game make their money (also waifu and husbu make them money too)
So... gacha game veteran shouldn't have any difficulty with this problem... (or at least only minor problem)
Me who already play multiple of gacha games for more than 10 years... think hoyo games (at least GI, HSR and ZZZ) is decent with their gacha...
Example : When I play FGO in the past, they didn't even have pity system yet... now? You need 330 pull for guaranteed limited
You who play GI, HSR, ZZZ... they always give bunch of gems for starter... so many mission and side quest, so many chest, many event, etc
If you pull for everything you see or want when you're not a whale... it's your problem
1st - Whenever new banner is out... always ask yourself... "Did you really need this character?" (Better if you know what kind of character will come for the next 1 to 2 banner)
2nd - If your character is basically an already strong unit (Example : Neuvillette in GI, Acheron in HSR, Miyabi in ZZZ), try to pull for their constelation/eidolon/talent and/or their signature whenever their banner got a rerun
So either you tackle power creep by pulling on new character that tailored to matching the new meta... or you can just strengthen your old character by upgrading their constelation and/or their signature weapon just to brute force the meta
*I am F2P player for HSR and ZZZ but I can still get Acheron E2 and Signature, Miyabi and her signature, in Genshin I am not F2P but only because I want BP crit weapon when the game fiirst come out
Yep... I skipped a lot of banner... (Cause I can't rely on my luck... my luck is almost non existence)
Exactly. It sucks, but that's how gacha games are. If you learn how to properly manage your resources in a game like this, you can get by! As you said, can't rely on luck? Then save up and GUARANTEE. You lose out on a ton, but it's smart.
Gacha games are indeed unfortunate in that regard, but you can get around it.
@@GyozaStarRail Yeah... just like upcoming Lingsha rerun banner...
After borrowing friend's Lingsha for my Firefly break team, I tempted to pull for her...
But I also want 'The Herta' for my Herta/Himeko FuP AoE team...
Now... the situation is... I 100% will pulling for 'The Herta'...
For Lingsha tho... I already have Gala fully built... (so kinda 50/50 on that)
Then today... HSR drop marketing castorice... I am kinda doomed right now... (But the artifact that come with her patch kinda sus)
The most possible outcome is I only pull for E0 S0 The Herta then saving until E0 S0 Castorice
i really hope they start balancing around mega whales E6S5 only. This is the only way some you you will understand simple language.
Skill issue
You can't clear all content if you pull for characters you like.
Meanwhile, people clear the hardest endgame content with Ben solo in ZZZ. Worst character in ZZZ tier lists. Not even 5 star.
This mentality of "there's power creep if you allow it to happen" is just a way people cope with terrible truths.
I can definitely see that being the case for most people. It is also very true that endgame in Star Rail can be a lot harsher than something like ZZZ.
However, I pull for characters I like. Yeah, I have to miss some like Sunday, but that is the greed part Mr. Pokke was speaking of. Sometimes you just have to miss a character you like. It sucks, but that doesn't mean you can't clear content if you pull for characters you enjoy. I still use Blade and his LC for fun, but just not if I'm trying to clear well.
Hoyo is to blame though. If anything more than the players. The real thing meant to be said is "powercreep is real but if you are smart, you can work around it." Unfortunately, Mr. Pokke's phrasing left many people with the wrong impression.
I can
@@GyozaStarRail Yeah, All hoyo games seem to follow this trend.
ZZZ is still a relatively new game, so Powercreep will definitely come.
Especially now that Miyabi has been released.
Miyabi is such a powerful character she's in a different tier alone.
The only Gacha game that doesn't have a power creep problem would be FGO from my experience.
FGO is a 10-year-old Gacha game, but even during the latest boss raid event, Sakata Kintoki was the best character to clear it(a character released 10 years ago). Simply because he takes the least amount of button clicks to clear.
FGO deals with power creep by giving older characters "enhancement quests".
Hoyo could also do this, but I doubt it will happen.
I think I heard of a similar thing happening on Fire Emblem Heroes. A material that can buff old units past their old potential to give them a second shot! I do sadly also doubt that Hoyoverse would ever do this either.
Nice video. You speaking my mind. I am a monthly player and can do 0 cycles because I have Robin E1, Feixiao LC and put effort building team and speed tuning. My other team are SuperBreak and Acheron, even tho I dont have Jiaoqio she can still clear in 5, SuperBreak in 1-2. Theres many people I know that pull for stuff like Kafka,Blade,Jingliu back in the day and complain they cant clear because: they stop invest in them/their team, pull like 2 new dps which doesnt work with each other, didnt pull support like Robin/RuanMei or even Sparkle, nor any eidolons for their "beloved" one year ago. You dont have to have clairvoyace to be able to plan your pull. Look at what you have and enjoy and try to get a foundation to build/plan off that. I pull Sunday prep for 3.0 in the mean time I can always use him with my Jingyuan. Or its always fun to use Seele with new Harmony support Sunday or Robin. Theres enough pull for you to get them, just need to know what you actually enjoy ❤
Thanks! Yeah, you're a very smart player! Not only because of your decisions, but because you understand these issues very well! It's crazy to hear people complain about their old favorites falling out of favor while refusing to further invest in those units.
i litterally can't get it, why now so many cc says you can make way around power creep just "smart invest" or you let that to happen by being "greedy/stupid" etc instead of blame devs who has all cards
i mean how regular player should know future and plan so far ahead? especially when same CCS post videos like "must pool" "new best" etc
here is some examples for context
1) Seele, oh my dear, best dps on launch by far, somewhat future proof with her kill=act again yet 425% dmg on ult against 700% from Feixiao i mean there is just number gap not to mention that with E2 she can ult like every second turn while Seele can't
2) Silver wolf, unique weakness imput which should make her future proof by a large margin, and all CC says that, yet all new dps just ignore weakness type like Acheron/Feixiao or make weakness type for themself like firefly, so why was silver wolf created again?
3) Sparkle, now completely outshine by Sunday in every scenario, but why? I mean isn't he suppouse to be support for summons? Why he gave so much power for character to overcome Sparkle in her best team even without count summon advance?? And again sparkle on release was "must pull"
4) Blade/Jingliu and whole hp drain mech was abondone for a year just to be powercreept im amforeus with new shiny toys?
5) Same goes for dot team which saw no updates for year
How somebody can know that will happen and not invest in dot/blade team? (i have both Blade and Jingliu even got loucha for them and was so hyped about hp drain team with last piece of puzzle supp for that comp which just not happend to be because of devs decision)
One thing when new chars clear content faster, and completely another when old chars clear it slower, you literally can see how your wifu/husbando become weak against same enemy just with more HP each patch, who in his damn mind like to see that?
I fully understand how you feel. Powercreep SUCKS and it isn't always easy to see your favorites become bad. Powercreep is real very very obviously.
It isn't just looking into the future though. It's investing well. I have had my share of pulls that are meaningless now. As you mentoned, Seele, Blade, Sparkle, and other characters I've pulled are just useless.
It IS the devs fault. However, that doesn't mean you can't work around it. Not being greedy is a very harsh way of saying that sometimes you just have to skip characters you want. Yeah, it sucks not getting what you want, but waiting is typically a much smarter move. DOT is bad now, but DOT + Acheron works very very well. You can still make these old metas work.
Though I LOVE Blade, I don't use him to fully clear all the endgame content. However, I still like him enough to give him cracked supports and see how well he can do! Or just use him in Sim Universe or overworld exploration. MOC, AS, and PF are not everything.
That all being said. None of it is specifically YOUR fault and I hate that some people are saying that it is. It is a GAME. You are meant to pull the characters you like. It's just that if your focus is pulling for ONLY and I mean ONLY who you want, you may not be able to clear all the endgame.
@@GyozaStarRail Mb you are right
yet i have some concerns
1) Dots with Acheron not making dots good, its just Acheron that strong and can work with them to carry to some extend, you can't say "shit my black swan did good here" when Acheron do all the job
2) And again WHY? Why i should't be able to clear with who i wanna pull, why if i clear that MoC in 20 cicles and next will be exactly same with just again +hp mobs now i clear in 21 and didn't get my last reward? Again there no new characters that was stronger but mine became weaker for no real reason, why can't i have my 20 cicles clear while newer chars clear a bit faster which will not affect me?
Like is there any problem to stop make every char stronger just for no reason and then make every enemy not stronger/intresting but just thicker and thicker to keep clear time in tact?
Instead of making new types of play like break/summons/dot/hp drain/low hp survive/ (hi nerfed arlan)/any damn shield exploit mb?? we just have more and more hp and raw power?
Again for context where it all starts
DHIL why he should have +crit dmg on his enchanced attack, especially that much?
Jingliu should have +50% crit chance just for existance?
Somebody can say it's just dps creep but now we have sunday who not just have action adv better than sparkle he also adv summon and aslo give crit dmg same as sparkle (but why should he do that? basically double advance with some minor dmg buff Isn't enough?)
It's very true that sadly Acheron doesn't make DOT work, but it's at least an out for people to still be able to use their favorites to clear all content. There is a part of me that would LOVE people just to use a team comp of their favorites, but teambuilding exists. You COULD clear everything with and E6 S5 Kafka (or any character) if you truly loved her that much. That is the "greedy" part Mr. Pokke was speaking of. Sadly you cannot do everything you want. You have to skip sometimes and manage your resources for characters you care about. I would LOVE to always get what I want, but it just doesn't work like that.
ALL THAT BEING SAID, I don't think you're wrong for any of these concerns. Heck, I completely understand how it feels to be able to use your favorite units anymore.
Power creep is not the prob just hp inflation
Both exist, but yeah, HP inflation is MUCH worse.
@@GyozaStarRail exactly that's why old units are not relevant if HP inflation never existed then their would be no powercreep in the first place
HSR has always been resource management I’ve been saving my resources since the beginning but now I got too much of everything I wish I thought of making a guide I didn’t lvl anything up really until lvl 70 and I didn’t farm for gear until max I just farmed traces first
I'm glad many people see HSR as a resource management game! Honestly though, traces are SUUPER important. Good luck on relics!
I completely agree, there’s definitely power creep but like you said as long as you invest and build your characters you can still clear content and “break” the power creep. My ftp account is a prime example since I have always pulled for off meta characters. I have an E2S1 Argenti and E1S1 Jade but no Acheron, Firefly, Ruan Mei, Feixiao, and any other meta characters from past patches but I still complete the end game content. I may not be able to get all the stars but since I’ve committed some time to the characters I do have I can still mostly clear it.
From my understanding, power creep is the hp inflation and the new mechanics you have to learn to beat certain enemies which makes past characters have a more difficult time defeating them (Sunday’s boss battle of break mechanics for example), but it shouldn’t be when a person can’t clear content because they have no idea what they’re doing. I wish more people understood, when I try to explain this to friends so they know why they aren’t beating MoC 9 or 10 they just brush it aside. Who then become amazed when I help them beat it. I had a friend who kept saying there’s so much power creep but when I was helping them they didn’t have a single character built. They only pulled for characters that content creators said were meta and would help you beat every end game. I ended up helping them out by putting semi-decent relics and getting them to MoC 12. It wasn’t 36 starred but it was the first time they reached MoC 12
I really respect the Argenti and Jade pulls. Completing the end game content is all that matters. So you lose out on like 60 jades, oh well. The fact is that you are able to clear and enjoy the game, and not get mad at Star Rail because you made the decision to pull for offmeta characters. Not like you are wrong for pulling who you want, of course.
And like you said with your friends, people who claim all that all their faults are on powercreep, seem to not even understand the game! I'm glad you understand enough and actually help them reach MOC 12. Good job!
I honestly don’t give a frick about meta honestly I pulled jiaoqiu cuz I really like him also I don’t have Acheron (I don’t want her)
@@Kirbyz08 yeah! Same here!! Pull for characters you want, not who some TH-camr told you to pull!
@ fr like can meta slave let me pull and play the characters on my account one time without u screaming in my ear how they suck and they’re not meta 😭💀
His overall arguments is solid and valid but it is just worded pretty bad
And I think that's is the whole issue honestly. It sounds like he was insulting people and it just wasn't supposed to be that. Hopefully he understands and doesn't do it again haha.
your Fursona is sooo cute omg :3
Aww thank you!!
The powerceep is real...
Hoyoverse: I don't give a fk about my playerbase.
Playerbase: I like bootlicking
Well u still can't deny the fact that it feels like shit when ur dhil,blade sparkle etc... u put time into cant clear anymore
Mhm. I feel you. Alot of my old units being much much worse really sucks. I think alot of people think I love Hoyo, but I really hate how some old characters fall out of favor.
Hopefully we get something to help older characters clear!
(Not that they can't, it just takes considerably more effort.)
@GyozaStarRail and thaats the problem with pokke i clearly understand his points but he's just pinning the blame on the consumer and not criticising the company about the issue
@@fable7372 mhm! I think I'm a bit guilty of that too though. I don't think it's the consumers "fault." I should've added a portion in my video talking about the predatory nature of gacha games and how, even if the player is at "fault" the company is creating this problem is even more so at fault.
Im a waifu collector and I full auto'd 3 star cleared with 4 star units
powercreep is not a problem if they don't buff boss' hp to trillion
but it is what it is
Unfortunately the state of endgame in Star Rail just keeps getting harder and harder. Not even with genuine difficulty but with artificial difficulty by inflated HPs.
Old and new characters could be viable but... Like you said, it is what it is.
@@GyozaStarRail i don't wanna collect suppot i don't give a fuck to make old chars relevant,lol
they forced me to care about powercreep,glad i quit long ago,all hoyogames are dogshit
@@dedcet634 u fell they trap once and make u like a 🤡.
it is what it is 😂