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I run 2 games - one for 4 people my age (late 50's) and one for my kids. I never have an empty seat but the adults schedule around the game and my kids want to play more often than I can prepare for lol
I once went to a small convention where all the attendees received a gift bag upon arrival. In addition to some ads and trinkets, each bag included a hotel-sized bar of soap and instructions for its use.
3-2-1 rule of conventions: 3 hours of sleep, 2 square meals, 1 shower. These are the minimums, per day. Day 2 or 3 of a convention will be _much_ better for you if you adhere to them.
@@yellingintothewind This guy over here promoting three hours of sleep, looking like he's about to welcome us to this week's episode of Tales from the Crypt.
I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment that "the GM has to do this, bring this, bring his A game, bla bla bla". Sure, the GM needs to provide his best effort, and make sure there are things & leads for the players to tackle on. But it's also vastly on THE PLAYERS to make a game out of the proposal, and commit to it. This idea that the GM is the end be all of everything that comes to the table and must be the purveyor of story, fun, color and whatnot... is what ends up causing GM burnout & guys leaving the hobby.
"the DM has to do all this stuff" I never hear about player responsibilities... And personally I lose interest and motivation whenever it starts to feel more like a job instead of just hosting a fun little game for friends
Fully agree, some players barely engage with the game, and it becomes incredibly tiresome to try to motivate them. Players who show up to the game, but offer little or nothing and hardly participate are better sent packing.
Just had a rough session last time. I’m new to homebrewing campaigns, and I unintentionally made a dungeon too hard. After realizing that this was too much, I halted the session, removed the curtain, and told my players “Alright, this is a wash. Let’s talk about it” I think I lost only a player and not the entire party because I hashed it out. Don’t be afraid to remove the curtain. If a session is going bad, you don’t have to finish it
A group I was in had to have a talk about how Axe body spray was no longer appropriate to wear at the gaming table because it was just too strong of a smell.
Odor has never been a big issue in my group. Once there was a guy who's clothes left his parts showing. I voiced an objection. But nobody else agreed. I just did my best to ignore him.
I was running a game while I was in high school and after the players left, my mother came into the room: “That boy who was sitting there is the most rancid-smelling person I have ever smelled. I opened the windows in November just to get the smell out of the house faster……” on and on for about two minutes. Well, the kid in question came back in while she was talking. Waited for her to finish before clearing his throat nervously and saying he came back in because he forgot his dice
Back in the 1990's one of our players was big into fitness and muscle gain and was taking all sorts of protein powders and performance enhancing GNC stuff. This regimen gave him frequent flatulence, and Sweet Pasta did it reek. One session, another player had brought a bunch of those adhesive deodorizers people stuck near trash cans, diaper pails and litter boxes and gave each of us one to hide. The next time the body builder let one rip, we all said, simultaneously, 'This looks like a good place for a Stick-Up!" and stuck seven of those deodorizer pucks all over him. - After that, when he felt the pressure coming on, he would leave the room or the house to "reach equilibrium".
I recently had to part with a group, strictly logistical. I had joined them in the middle/latter part of a D&D campaign. Most of the group worked at the same factory, so pretty much had the same (approximate) schedule. Then I had to have a series of surgeries. Although I have insurance, the final bill was pretty high (and portions of it already being sent to collections). I start pulling some serious OT to try to get a handle on things. I tried to keep game-day and schedule the OT around it. But found that, on game-day, I was WAY too tired to even keep conscious enough to drive to the GM's house, much less stay alert for the sessions. I parted with them saying, once I had this whole OT need satisfied, I would like to return (maybe for the next campaign they start).
I’m quite old timer GM and what I find uncomfortable is that when player leaves, even using such excuses as „I got busy schedule” etc. - you really don’t know what was the matter. It’s hard for people to tell you something is wrong, especially if they see you re doing your best. Sometimes it may be just a game - I’m pretty sure 75% of this players of mine just don’t like DnD and tactical combat focused adventures. But am I sure? Maybe I was doing something wrong? F..! You just never know.
Outstanding! Session Zero script: "Welcome to my game! You call get a complimentary set of polyhedral dice, Dr. Squatch, and Speedstick." --Professor DM
I created a drop-in drop-out system for my players so they don't feel pressured to show up every time, but we still usually have a pretty full party. I have been anxious about what happens when everyone shows up (We're up to about 6 total players and sometimes players talk about bringing someone else in), but by this point, I doubt that'll happen. In the system, everyone levels up by milestones, but if you're not there, you don't get loot.
6 players isn't bad, I've typically run 5-6. The game is kind of designed for 4-6. As far as adding more players, my initial response is to just say no. Now if they insist or keep asking talk to all of your players as a group. Tell them that it is not really a hardship on you. It is the players that it hurts. It introduces possible player conflicts. It boss down the game, especially combat as players have to wait that much longer for their turn. You could also convert to XP instead of milestone where the total earned amount is divided by the number of characters thus they'll level slower. Even with milestone, you can show down the progression. Where five characters might be level 7, eight will now only be level 6 or even 5
Swade worked best for that imo The number of extras you would have is 2 to 3 for the amount of players you have playing that. Can adjust but still it's a simple general rule
Session 0 is very important to set expectations. This is where DMs get buy in from the players for the game. DMs need to be open to feedback both positive and negative and be willing to improve. Ask your players what they are finding fun, and what would make it more fun. Don't do it on the spot and don't do it after every session. Send them a feedback request in an email and give them time to think it over. I like to do this at game start or when coming back from a break. Players need to tell the DM what they find fun (and not fun) before they quit. Don't complain during the session, talk to the DM between sessions. Thank the DM after the session if you had fun, or even if you didn't and you appreciate their effort they put in to run a game for you. Yes! Play when players are absent, and let someone play their character for them (or you as the DM run them) so it doesn't break verisimilitude. Our rule of thumb is we play unless two are out. Nobody wants a cakewalk - the rewards had no risk. Might as well show up and say, we win! and leave. Rolling dice and saying you try to persuade the guard is not roleplaying, it's rollplaying (or playing a roleplaying game). There is a longstanding difference.
game ends, schedule the next session before everyone goes home. Even better, make game day an agreed recurrence between all participants (ex : Tuesdays every fortnight, 9pm). So much easier to manage this way. No scheduling controversies, and if players can't make it, you can decide to go ahead or skip
I've gone the route of telling everyone the meet day/time and frequency. And if out of my party of 5 if more then 2 cancel I'll postpone for next session. If there's 3 or more still making it I run the session. Currently running a weekly game and this works out so far, especially with one player of mine who I guess was use to their previous dms just canceling if just one person couldn't make it, he missed out once due to "forgetting" and hasn't missed since lol
@@takuame7 playing game where character absence can be managed through the rules is also a great help (ex : I'm running Pendragon atm, and having characters Out of the Story is part of the game mechanics)
I had a game where one player left unexpectedly cuz they were bored, then the other players decided to jump ship due to low moral. It didn’t help that the DM got defensive whenever we offered suggestions on how to make the game more fun. He would say things like “I already have that in my game” or “I’m just doing what the module says”. It’s always good to listen to your players’ constructive feedback instead of giving excuses for not changing.
That's exactly why I don't run modules anymore. I felt suffocated and my players were always hesitant to do what they actually wanted for fear of straying too far from the railroad.
As a player try- "Our group seems to be struggling, how can I help?" As a GM- "Our group seems to be struggling, how can I help?" It is the "how can I help" part that matters, not the "what you need to do is..." part. If you aren't willing to be a collaborative team member in a collaborative team hobby- well, you are the problem.
I have been fortunate to have a group understanding of our set day of the week to play. All understand that by not showing up they don't get to play. They know and lament that they are missing out so make every effort to show up the following sessions. No concessions are made for unaccommodating work schedules. It was simply the arrangement upon each member joining. To avoid GM burnout, two of us alternate each week with a different game and characters, etc. On special occasions one of the other players takes a turn being GM providing a one shot game with a different story. Our games happen to all be different TTRPG systems so each is a refreshing alternative to what has been established. We enjoy progressing through together to create a cumulative story. In only two campaigns have our characters reached level 15 or higher. We always progress using milestone.
I’m a new Dungeon Master and I have had two players leave from a party of 5. One left because of a busy life schedule but the other just up and disappeared. Not sure why, but surprisingly the 3 remaining are doing fine through the campaign. These 3 seem to be more into the game anyway so perhaps it was for the best.
No. The fluffy bunnies and unicorns game where nobody dies IS wrong. Why? Because removing consequence destroys the experience--a game where you always win is not fun, pointless, and it is hell. It's the same as playing rock paper scissors with someone who tells you what they're going to throw every time.
morrigankasa570, who commented on this post, disagrees with you. He or she thinks that there shouldn't be player character death. I told him/her that you might as well show up and declare you've won, without ever playing it, if you don't want there to ever be stakes. It's called role playing GAME. Key word there- GAME.
I had to leave a game once. Not because of a bad dm or anything, it was actually a really fun campaign. But i was moving countries and calling in wasnt likely to work due to internet issues. The DM (bless his soul) put together a scene just to send me off and give my character an epic death. My dräken cleric jumped into a portal to drive out an ethereal threat even the gods were afraid to encounter, and as she did so, turned into a huge ethereal panther rippling with the power of all the gods But the moment brouvht the entire table to tears. The storytelling was topnotch, and the music wed been playinf for the bossfight right before was at such a perfect moment of epicbess but also despiration. I swear i almost cried at that table that night. A few of the other players actually did. Awesome game, pity i had to leave early.
Player honesty at a Session 0 can be a big factor. I've seen players at Session 0 say "I'm good with anything" when they really mean "I'm going to play this the way I want, no matter what kind of game it is." Then they want to loot every body expecting to get tons of magic items and gold in a gritty, low fantasy game and cause friction with other players and GMs.
At some point I realized the real problem was D&D itself and I switched to a system that suits my GM style much better and attract players who like playing that way. My regular intense story driven dark campaign is VTM now, with D&D on the side for standalone lighthearted fun.
I do agree, a certain type of players tends to gravitate towards D&d, at least the modern modern versions (including PF), and I really think it's not my kind of jam or crowd. As they say, knowing is half the battle
In my exp scheduling become less of a problem when you specifically look for folks wiling to meet at a set time, it becomes more of a problem when you are trying to get a game going with friends.
I can agree I'm not the best DM ever, but I also know I'm a lot better than I used to be. I'm a bit set in my ways and currently trying to improve the narrative in combat to make it more interesting, but I don't sweat it anymore when a player leaves. I can be disappointed about it, but I don't feel guilty as I used to a long time ago. My game and my style are as they are. If a player isn't liking it, so be it. I have my players who stay, so as long as I have players I continue on.
As a DM, I've even had an envious player try and "steal" players from my game to start her own campaign. That was upsetting, but their spots filled up quickly. Jokes on her tho - her game collapsed due to her being unable to correct the issues mentioned in this video, and then the stolen players wanted to rejoin my game. I said nope...sorry we're full! And she didn't bother asking to rejoin my game 🤣
Usually I ask about feedback after every session. This method prevented me from players lising fun when I realised that fights became too hard for them.
"As long as you have at least 3 or 4 players to make a game session" I went from 8 players to barely 3; one of them is basically a loaf of bread. I'm crying tears... Bonus points if you've been repeatedly told that you are the best DM they've ever played with... Then they leave...
Online players in my experience have an attrition rate of around 50%. One thing I've found is you have to be prepared to go back recruiting after losing about half the group.
@@wyatthill6252 I know someone who runs for 11 players and they encouraged a completely new DM first time ever running to attempt at 9 players, despite my protests. Yeah that new campaign ended up burning in flames. Ya gotta be really experience not just in running the game, but in hosting lots of people if you wanna go for it.
@@shaokhanwins1037 Yeah running 9 players is brutal. Just the slowdown from having that many people on the battlefield is going to lead to a glacial pace. Honestly I don't know how you'd do it unless you do radical house rules like replace the initiative system with a declare-first style.
As a DM has always been about having fun with the game, letting players run the story I lay out in front of them. My most recent experience though had me never want to DM again. It became like a second job with players constantly wanting to RP on discord and whatsapp with me ( I mean like upwards of 40 messages a day), constantly metagaming, and arguing about how something works. I had to take a month off because of work (traveling for 2 weeks) and home life (house being tented) and immediately one player was like "well if you don't have time maybe we should end the campaign then". I had a lush multiverse travel story planned out that would have taken the characters from lvl 1 to 20 and over years, but game ended after 1 year and had to rush the ending. I would say the point of my little story is that sometimes it is the players that cause the DM to not want to prepare better for the games with constant RPing outside of the game, metagaming, and arguing.
Real talk as veteran dm and player it bugs me when I play in a campaign that is seriously themed and my fellow players cannot remember the most basic stuff they can do or the question of in every session “what do I add for my attack roll?”
"I just want to remind everybody- Don't be the smelly kid. Nobody likes the smelly kid. Everybody make fun of the smelly kid. Just- don't be the smelly kid."
I always check in with my players every five sessions or so to make sure they're still having fun, things they would like to see and any feedback for me. I was running a game for my partner and we had a big discussion about how the current campaign wasn't really tying into their current goals. After that I pivoted to make it more focused and the campaign was much better as a result. Feedback is key, so long as the players also except the feedback you give them.
I hate this episode and it really highlights why I stopped DMing TTRPGs. Players watch content like this with us because they often aspire to be GMs/DMs, and it kind of sets unrealistic expectations. "Do this..", "Always get better...", "Never do this..." It's very unfair to do the catch all of, "your stuff's boring if you're doing all these other things." There are SO MANY things we're told to do as GMs/DMs that its exhausting because players want so much. Great you get a survey, but most won't say anything until they're just bored or mad and then quit. What is more important is not what you're doing, it's how your group gels. Some groups will love railroading/player agency taken occasionally to tell a larger story they are part of. I have seen just as many games fall apart because the DM relies on the players to do all the actions in game. Obviously toxicity is bad, but there are tables that have it regularly and function well with it because they are that audience. I'm not condoning, mind you, and I make damn sure my Session Zeros have that and other ways to take into consideration people's concerns and triggers. What prospective GMs need to do is screen their players by running one-offs until they find a group that gels well. I miss TTRPGs, but I don't miss the drama that seems to come over and over again in different forms. Call me the problem, fine, I don't think a GM can make an agnostic environment where no one will leave. I also believe you can do the things you aren't supposed to and find great success. It's about the people and not so much the product.
Even many years in to my long running campaign, it is frustrating that half of the players don't seem to treat the game as a weekly/bi-weekly commitment to an activity. We play via VTT and showing up on time is a rare occurrence for several players. We play the same day & time every week. And like suggested here, I don't skip sessions for missing players. I'll happily run with 2 PCs. This has caused, frequently, some players who have said they were unavailable on a certain night to magically show up anyway. FOMO is real
The only time I cohosted as a dm, mainly because I was asked to do narration an theatrics, my players had a blast and they told me at the end that that was because we could communicate and they felt confident telling me what they didn't want. I was told that in most games Game masters just asume that everything they do is entertaining and we'll rounded. So it feels weird thinking that admitting that you are to blame as a gm is not the norm.
I had a GM that made one of my backstory NPCs gaslight (from my POV) my character. I asked what she was planning on doing, but wouldnt. TLDR: i half quit, half kicked out. It was my very first character, and I joined seesion 1 and not session 0.
I personally have never had to deal with the hygiene issue however, I was nearby when a DM had that conversation with someone. It turned out in that case the player was doing it on purpose. The player was playing a Druid with a low charisma and as a result was using it as a role-playing aid. The DM and the player always had a smile or a chuckle anytime someone commented after that exchange.
Another great video Luke. I especially liked the surveys as sometimes players don't like to voice their opinions or prefer to be discreet and avoid arguments. I found your opinions to be fair, and I think you looked at the situation from all or at least most of the angles. I look forward to your next video.
I've set expectations when I was a new DM to give me feedback through private Messages rather than ghosting where it leads me to having nothing to build upon to make the game better. I was in the military at the time and was very new to dming. I had more enthusiasm from fellow soldiers playing in person rather than online. I could not figure out for the life of me why people online would suddenly disappear vs people that showed up in person to play? I was doing the same things in person, as I was online. The only difference was people couldn't see me jumping around like a fool describing combat. lol I had some players online who were saying there was no problem and that they thought I was doing pretty good especially being a new DM. Unfortunately, those players had to see a game drop off because I decided to just stick with my in person game rather than deal with a slog fest of trying to get a game started online. Eventually I turned back to online and unfortunately scheduling and getting people to actually show up caused that game to drop off. Now I run a game with great players who love being there just as much as I love running a game for them. The ghosting problem I still have no clue why those players just disappeared? But my reason points to that it is something that those types of people do. Rather than helping to solve an issue they'd rather run away from the problem. Before I was a DM I could not stand people like this and still can't. Ghosting in my opinion is just cowardice in my experience. If I was doing something wrong I told people I would fix it. My players at the table knew this and I told people that I am open to any harsh criticism. Because I knew I was going to need it to improve the gaming experience and myself. Something soldiers have to do if they are expected to be a leader at any point in time. That to me is a good game to find when you have a GM who understands that improvement is a necessity rather than not being able to accept criticism and never changes. I am no way sour over this terrible experience I had to go through to find a good group. I was bitter about it at first but now Honestly, it made me stronger because I decided to try again and not give up. It resulted in me finding a great player base that has been playing for 2 years now. 1 player has been around longer than that. This made me better in every way. However, word of warning, If you decide to run a game online or simply just play one, be sure to understand that you are gonna have to go through a slog fest of finding a good table to play at. You may get kicked out at times because you don't fit the group or simply lose players and they say nothing. But eventually you will get there like I did and love every minute of your gaming experience. There is a lot of shitty people out there. Don't let that stop you from never playing or running a game ever. You'll get there. Just takes time. Been running dnd games since 2018. Took till 2021 to finally get something solid.
Session zero I told my players that we play as long as we have half the group (at least 2 people). Tho I've run for a solo player cause I was ready and they still wanted to play.
I'm considering leaving my group. They let an alcoholic back in after being removed several times. And the DM won't reign in a cheater. I have often voiced my opinion on these issues, only to be overruled.
TY. Had a good player quit on my today. Upset me. They complained about my GM style. You need to ENJOY your game as the GM. Also. GMs are rare. Players are a dime a dozen. I feel better.
IRL, Players return because they like the other players. A GM has to be really bad to drive off players that like each other. Online, the GM has to be really good to keep any players.
My biggest regret was not getting the rules right for my rogue player before I lost them. I was a bit confused about surprise, unseen attackers, and the sneak attack flowchart for about 3 sessions.
I'll be honest, I ghosted my players. Some of my players wanted to change venues and it was part of this constant push to socially "take over" the group, so I just let them. EDIT: I should point out this was first trying to push for use of minis (I always let them use their own stuff), then trying to push for events at their house instead of neutral settings, and then I had some wanting to use virtual tools, which I have no interest in using (remember, I was the DM). Sometimes you need to know when to just quit, even if you're the DM.
I really like the point on the problem, perhaps not being the root cause of the issue. This sometimes can lead to very good outcomes if the root cause is a positive want and the player is just using a maladaptive behavior that can be changed to something more prosocial
Talking about hygiene is an art form. I have had to do several times in my occupation. The sad fact is that most individuals that have hygiene issues, don't know they have an issue, because they never learned what good hygiene means. They can't smell it, because it's them and they are used to it or they thought everyone smells that why because they smell it everywhere. Best way I've started the conversation was to "self identify" (really you are lying about your self) and say something like, "I apologies today was really chaotic and I was not able to .... (shower, forgot to use deodorant, etc.) today.... You have now drawn everyone into the conversation to have a discussion then close with something like, "You all deserve better from me, and I'll ensure to do (insert bad hygiene habit and expected frequency, daily probably) so that I'm not distracting you form the fun that you hope to have each to we play. That works most of the time especially, if you gesture towards them like "I know you know."
Nice tips! I have a player that is constantly telling (out of game) what the other players should do next. The problem is that it happens during the encounter and on other players turns. They are all a friendly bunch. I keep telling him not to play other players characters, but is stronger than him. Any tips about that?
Move the spotlight back to the current player's turn by telling him, "let them decide what they do, only offer advice when it is asked for" or something like that. Many players like to discuss strategy, but it depends on the table. We prefer to act like our character would act, rather than dissect an encounter from a player perspective.
When I was spending 20 hours preparing for every session (New to DMing at the time) constantly trying to calibrate to my players and my players can't be bothered to learn the rules after a year of playing and never look into what they want to pick up next level up until the session after they gained a level, especially after I asked them to pick their subclass at least a day before so I can prepare the material for it Yeah that ain't on me That group fell apart because I decided to quit the group and of course no one was willing to fill in the DM seat for that group
My current game I made a character that just wants to have fun and looks out to protect people only killing to protect. The DM gave me a cursed item that makes me kill out of vengeance, so yeah, my characters core values have just been destroyed and once the cursed item is removed he might ended up just leaving and to top it off another player keeps pointing out trying to lynch my character for some actions he has taken with the rest of the party meanwhile his character does bad shit on purpose as to where my character is acting in the sense to protect and made a few mistakes in his approach and even expressed to the group of his mistake and has taken a different path in life to better protect.
I've unfortunately had to have the hygiene talk with a player. It went relatively well. Turned out, I wasn't just my game (or gaming) where it was an issue, and the person ended up carrying around spray deodorant in his vehicle to use before he exited the vehicle everywhere. In my decades of DMing, I've had to ask people to leave for many different reasons, from not showing up, to showing up drunk, from disturbing the group, to cheating, to just being annoying to be around. Some have taken it well, but sadly most have not. I've lost players for even more reasons. Scheduling conflicts are by far the most common, probably followed by wanting a different type of game. A handful of times it has been social issues within the group.
Yeah, I've had to host the hygiene discussion once or twice... once with this big lovable hulk of a guy who didn't understand basic common courtesies... Things like "personal space" and "soap" had little meaning to him. He was friendly to a fault, generous (brought snacks for everyone and gave rides to/from game as needed) and an overall Nice guy. He was also, unfortunately, socially awkward to the point of cluelessness. Eventually after receiving several complaints from other players, I had to have a private talk with the big goof. He was hurt by others' perception of him and I felt like I had just kicked a puppy, but in the end he made more of an effort to be considerate of others' needs and the game group got along better because of it. But man, I hated to be the guy that had to bring that up.
DM since 1977... The only players to leave my campaigns in the middle were transferred under military orders. Friday afternoon every week games for most campaigns. Often using the building I worked in for a place to play. EXP leveling. Show up or no EXP.
I had one friend who worked for the highway department. So during summer, we made him shower before he left his house. And on some days, he left his sneakers outside, and rebathed his feet as soon as he walked in the door.
I have a group that legitimately has "something come up" for at least one person about 8-9 weeks straight in between sessions. There is only 3 players...
@bukkist It's not necessary for me to drive out there, that's the point. But all my players live out that way and the game store I used to run games at closed last year. Most of my family lives out that way, too. I'm actually originally from that area. I know it pretty well. So, why would I make 5 other people drive out here, where there is no place to play at? There is no place closer or in between.
I usually lose interest in paid games. It's hard to feel like I am developing friendships when getting charged $$ every time we get together to roll dice. I join those games because I struggle to get my friends to DM, and because I hope to learn from a professional DM. But ultimately, these paid games leave me feeling like a client instead of a friend. My experiences have mostlt been online, and mostly without video. The personal hygiene thing hasn't come up yet.
I used to be in a band, there were four of us practicing in a small shed.Our bass player tyler smelled like a rotting goblin.We just straight up told him he stunk, some people dont take many showers. -8 to charsima saves
If the DM is having difficulty talking to the players about conflict resolution, either a. somebody isn't fit for the job, or b. maybe they should all do it in-character and roll some dice. But at that point it kinda sounds like they might all need some personal therapy. (OH NO! Is there already such a thing as rpg group therapy? Cuz if not, I forsee it in the very near future. Now I really wish I'd thought of this 10 years ago.) Point is, the game can teach you a lot about life. Try to pay attention. Also, I'm available for consultation. Check my socials for availability and to set up an appointment. Reasonable rates. 🙂
I was invited to join a Saturday night group by a DM I considered a friend. This group had been a friend group for decades before I joined. After a few sessions it was clear that I was gaming a little more sandboxie than they did . The DM told me taht he was tired and did not want to run two games a week. So we parted ways, at the game table. I still worked with two of the folks there. A couple of weeks later one of my coworkers asked if I could drop something off at the DMs house on Saturday night. I arrived to find a DM game in full swing and a different member in "my seat." It was another of their childhood friends. I wish the DM had just said he wanted the chair, and I could have acknowledged we gamed a little differently. Adulting can be uncomfortable, I deal with conflict everyday at work, it's literally what I do so it's a bit less uncomfortable to me, but it would have benn nice to have been told the truth up front. No harm, no foul, just life.
Happened to me once too, that one haunts me slightly too because I to this day don't know what I said or did that pissed those dudes off. I wasn't rude or playing a bombastic character, or stepping on over other people to get to my thing. Just one day, one of my better friends in the group just said, they don't wanna play with you anymore, no explanation. I'm happy you at least got an answer.
One thing I’d add is: It’s totally fine and normal for adults with jobs and families to decide they’ve had an enjoyable few adventures or campaigns and… just want to do other things with their limited free time, at least for a while. This is not necessarily a failure of the DM or the group, or a problem that needs solving. Sometimes the best thing to do might be to find a satisfactory conclusion or resting point for a group or characters and take a break.
So what does a DM do if the time they can DM doesn't seem to work for anyone? (As in their day off is the day all other potential players are working....?) How does one get players to even agree to show up on that day much less show up on that day?
@1:54 How many games are with _more_ than 3 or 4 players? Seriously, I haven't played in a group with 5 or more players since high school (_several_ decades ago). 3 players plus a GM is _when everyone shows up_. :)
So I'm a quiet player, an introvert. I think a lot, don't say much and don't like interrupting, and often don't like being the centre of attention. It makes me nervous. In my last campaign we had a lot of loud talkers so in order to take part I'd have to blurt something out to get a word in. Quite often abruptly with out explaining my thought processes, or stumbling over my words. A few times I bumped in to "solutions" of puzzles, or did something odd that made the DM suspect I was cheating. Example 1). I refused to eat the dream pastries in Barovia/strahd because we had just killed a load of zombies outside a tavern and yet this old lady thought it was a good idea to be wandering outside at night. I was suspicious, DM didn't like it. 2) That hag's wandering hut. New character, my first attempt at playing a full caster (druid). I wanted to play as a battle field controller so I attempted to cast Dispel Magic on the obviously magical hut to see what would happen. Dm throws a fit and openly but indirectly accuses me of cheating. This happened a few times over several months. The Hut encounter was the last straw so I made an excuse and quit.
That's an unfortunate situation. Although throwing a fit and any form of accusation is very wrong on the DM's part, I would understand why they wouldn't like what you're doing. Running a well known module and having a player just randomly solve things can be quite alarming. Has your DM ever asked what your thoughts are or your character's thoughts are and if they want to say or do anything? It is the DM's job afterall. My group is also a mix mash of extreme extrovert loud talkers and extreme introverts that usually remain silent. If I don't do anything the extroverts can yap for a long time and the introverts just spectates or get talked over.. What I do is that I always check up on everyone and ask for their thoughts/character's thoughts and if there's anything they'd like to say or do. Lot's of the introverted ones actually has a lot to say when asked, and asking them make them feel less like they're interrupting something.
@@shaokhanwins1037We were both going through mental health issues honestly. We could have and should have talked it through. Without a doubt he WAS one of the best DMs I've played with. But our circumstances got in the way and I didn't want to ruin the game for the other players. This was during covid so we were on voice coms and Roll20 and we didn't get the cross table body language signals either. It was tough. But no not once was I asked to clarify any thought processes I had.
Really, when I see most Problem Player or Problem DM videos, it's almost like they are mentioning things that scream out, "do you really have such worthless people in your lives?" I don't plan games, so you can't read my notes. Cheating players is simple, cheat back. They'll get the message. Or not. Won't matter to me. So many things written in DM guides and it's almost insultingly obvious how to solve the problem. Make it known, you don't want to railroad the group. The price is they need to wait a bit longer when zigging will cost time that zagging wouldn't have. Make it known you consider monsters in the books as just suggestions. So reading the monster stats won't help. Same with adventures. "Oh you played this before? awesome. I've changed a lot of the details." I won't let quiet players get ignored, and I won't let aggressive players dominate. And yep, I use ALL of their stats, including the dump stats. I can role play, and i can roll play. I have an active imagination, and I'm also a hard core wargamer. Want to play 'rules as written'? Oh I can do that too. If you treat your PC as an extension of you, you will find out my monsters can be an extension of me. And I can be w real total bitch :)
Discussing personal hygiene issues with your players is extremely awkward, not to mention uncomfortable, for a DM/GM. At every session 0 I like to remind my players to make sure to bathe and put on deodorant before coming to each game session. Definitely not the most pleasant of conversations… 😬
after playing everything from monty haul to real death make 5 characters before playing. played real world simulation with every optional rule on encumbrance and food/rest. personally i like a good fantasy game with common sense rulings. could you do that yes or no. then move on. no rules lawyer period. dm/gm is the rules lawyer as it is their game and table. the books as written are not set in stone unbreakable rules. they are guidelines to keep the game flowing. there may be books or supplements the dm/gm is using that you do not have access too. hence our no rules lawyer rule. biggest issue is players that in real life know stuff about the game that they bring to the character at the table. no your barbarian did not know that wizard is using such and such spell etc.
#1. Flat out, if your friends signed up for a volleyball league, a martial art, or a cooking class they would make time for the thing they scheduled. If your group is struggling to get together, it's because they *don't want to play the game*. Your solution is right, play without them, but the problem isn't that schedules are hard, the problem is your friends don't want to play. Schedules aren't hard. #2. You have to be an incredibly hsitty human being to show up for your hobby and blame your DM for you not having a good time. If you showed up to play baseball and didn't have a good time and blamed it on the pitcher for not facilitating fun well enough, you'd be appropriately mocked. You should be mocked for doing it in D&D too. It's not their fault that you aren't having fun, it's your fault that you aren't having fun. You might not even like D&D.
The guy who keeps opening doors during combat? Get to fight the new enemies in mass First Should resolve issues quickly enough. Murder hobos: start with hauntings if needed go to possessions, then tthings get worse. The group and always opt not to raise the troublemaker so he can begin a new character once. If it continues he is ouit of the game.
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Frankly, if I have to convince people to show up or behave, I’m not playing with them. I already have kids.
I wish this applied more often than it does. I wish adults would behave as such, but they don't unfortunately.
I run 2 games - one for 4 people my age (late 50's) and one for my kids. I never have an empty seat but the adults schedule around the game and my kids want to play more often than I can prepare for lol
@@jonhunt1419hmmm you try sandboxing?
Even how to be a great DM has a recent video on how little you should prep... Over prepping stresses me
I once went to a small convention where all the attendees received a gift bag upon arrival. In addition to some ads and trinkets, each bag included a hotel-sized bar of soap and instructions for its use.
😆
Based
LOL soap. XD
3-2-1 rule of conventions: 3 hours of sleep, 2 square meals, 1 shower. These are the minimums, per day. Day 2 or 3 of a convention will be _much_ better for you if you adhere to them.
@@yellingintothewind This guy over here promoting three hours of sleep, looking like he's about to welcome us to this week's episode of Tales from the Crypt.
I'm not sure I agree with that sentiment that "the GM has to do this, bring this, bring his A game, bla bla bla". Sure, the GM needs to provide his best effort, and make sure there are things & leads for the players to tackle on. But it's also vastly on THE PLAYERS to make a game out of the proposal, and commit to it. This idea that the GM is the end be all of everything that comes to the table and must be the purveyor of story, fun, color and whatnot... is what ends up causing GM burnout & guys leaving the hobby.
It's impossible to say who needs to improve in your group. But I think the main topic of this video is when the DM needs to make difficult decisions.
I could not agree more, you need to put in effort as the manager of the game, but your players need to meet you halfway.
"the DM has to do all this stuff"
I never hear about player responsibilities... And personally I lose interest and motivation whenever it starts to feel more like a job instead of just hosting a fun little game for friends
@@rayrous8229 I'm speaking from past experience but my group now is great don't worry ;)
Fully agree, some players barely engage with the game, and it becomes incredibly tiresome to try to motivate them. Players who show up to the game, but offer little or nothing and hardly participate are better sent packing.
Just had a rough session last time. I’m new to homebrewing campaigns, and I unintentionally made a dungeon too hard. After realizing that this was too much, I halted the session, removed the curtain, and told my players
“Alright, this is a wash. Let’s talk about it”
I think I lost only a player and not the entire party because I hashed it out. Don’t be afraid to remove the curtain. If a session is going bad, you don’t have to finish it
Communication is the most important thing. If people can't communicate then that is the biggest problem.
A group I was in had to have a talk about how Axe body spray was no longer appropriate to wear at the gaming table because it was just too strong of a smell.
Odor has never been a big issue in my group. Once there was a guy who's clothes left his parts showing. I voiced an objection. But nobody else agreed. I just did my best to ignore him.
I was running a game while I was in high school and after the players left, my mother came into the room: “That boy who was sitting there is the most rancid-smelling person I have ever smelled. I opened the windows in November just to get the smell out of the house faster……” on and on for about two minutes. Well, the kid in question came back in while she was talking. Waited for her to finish before clearing his throat nervously and saying he came back in because he forgot his dice
Back in the 1990's one of our players was big into fitness and muscle gain and was taking all sorts of protein powders and performance enhancing GNC stuff.
This regimen gave him frequent flatulence, and Sweet Pasta did it reek.
One session, another player had brought a bunch of those adhesive deodorizers people stuck near trash cans, diaper pails and litter boxes and gave each of us one to hide.
The next time the body builder let one rip, we all said, simultaneously, 'This looks like a good place for a Stick-Up!" and stuck seven of those deodorizer pucks all over him.
-
After that, when he felt the pressure coming on, he would leave the room or the house to "reach equilibrium".
I recently had to part with a group, strictly logistical. I had joined them in the middle/latter part of a D&D campaign. Most of the group worked at the same factory, so pretty much had the same (approximate) schedule. Then I had to have a series of surgeries. Although I have insurance, the final bill was pretty high (and portions of it already being sent to collections). I start pulling some serious OT to try to get a handle on things. I tried to keep game-day and schedule the OT around it. But found that, on game-day, I was WAY too tired to even keep conscious enough to drive to the GM's house, much less stay alert for the sessions. I parted with them saying, once I had this whole OT need satisfied, I would like to return (maybe for the next campaign they start).
Communication!
I’m quite old timer GM and what I find uncomfortable is that when player leaves, even using such excuses as „I got busy schedule” etc. - you really don’t know what was the matter. It’s hard for people to tell you something is wrong, especially if they see you re doing your best.
Sometimes it may be just a game - I’m pretty sure 75% of this players of mine just don’t like DnD and tactical combat focused adventures. But am I sure? Maybe I was doing something wrong?
F..! You just never know.
Outstanding! Session Zero script: "Welcome to my game! You call get a complimentary set of polyhedral dice, Dr. Squatch, and Speedstick." --Professor DM
I created a drop-in drop-out system for my players so they don't feel pressured to show up every time, but we still usually have a pretty full party. I have been anxious about what happens when everyone shows up (We're up to about 6 total players and sometimes players talk about bringing someone else in), but by this point, I doubt that'll happen. In the system, everyone levels up by milestones, but if you're not there, you don't get loot.
6 players isn't bad, I've typically run 5-6. The game is kind of designed for 4-6. As far as adding more players, my initial response is to just say no. Now if they insist or keep asking talk to all of your players as a group. Tell them that it is not really a hardship on you. It is the players that it hurts. It introduces possible player conflicts. It boss down the game, especially combat as players have to wait that much longer for their turn. You could also convert to XP instead of milestone where the total earned amount is divided by the number of characters thus they'll level slower. Even with milestone, you can show down the progression. Where five characters might be level 7, eight will now only be level 6 or even 5
Swade worked best for that imo
The number of extras you would have is 2 to 3 for the amount of players you have playing that. Can adjust but still it's a simple general rule
Session 0 is very important to set expectations. This is where DMs get buy in from the players for the game.
DMs need to be open to feedback both positive and negative and be willing to improve. Ask your players what they are finding fun, and what would make it more fun. Don't do it on the spot and don't do it after every session. Send them a feedback request in an email and give them time to think it over. I like to do this at game start or when coming back from a break.
Players need to tell the DM what they find fun (and not fun) before they quit. Don't complain during the session, talk to the DM between sessions. Thank the DM after the session if you had fun, or even if you didn't and you appreciate their effort they put in to run a game for you.
Yes! Play when players are absent, and let someone play their character for them (or you as the DM run them) so it doesn't break verisimilitude. Our rule of thumb is we play unless two are out.
Nobody wants a cakewalk - the rewards had no risk. Might as well show up and say, we win! and leave.
Rolling dice and saying you try to persuade the guard is not roleplaying, it's rollplaying (or playing a roleplaying game). There is a longstanding difference.
game ends, schedule the next session before everyone goes home. Even better, make game day an agreed recurrence between all participants (ex : Tuesdays every fortnight, 9pm). So much easier to manage this way. No scheduling controversies, and if players can't make it, you can decide to go ahead or skip
I've gone the route of telling everyone the meet day/time and frequency. And if out of my party of 5 if more then 2 cancel I'll postpone for next session. If there's 3 or more still making it I run the session. Currently running a weekly game and this works out so far, especially with one player of mine who I guess was use to their previous dms just canceling if just one person couldn't make it, he missed out once due to "forgetting" and hasn't missed since lol
@@takuame7 playing game where character absence can be managed through the rules is also a great help (ex : I'm running Pendragon atm, and having characters Out of the Story is part of the game mechanics)
I had a game where one player left unexpectedly cuz they were bored, then the other players decided to jump ship due to low moral. It didn’t help that the DM got defensive whenever we offered suggestions on how to make the game more fun. He would say things like “I already have that in my game” or “I’m just doing what the module says”. It’s always good to listen to your players’ constructive feedback instead of giving excuses for not changing.
That's exactly why I don't run modules anymore. I felt suffocated and my players were always hesitant to do what they actually wanted for fear of straying too far from the railroad.
As a player try- "Our group seems to be struggling, how can I help?"
As a GM- "Our group seems to be struggling, how can I help?"
It is the "how can I help" part that matters, not the "what you need to do is..." part. If you aren't willing to be a collaborative team member in a collaborative team hobby- well, you are the problem.
I have been fortunate to have a group understanding of our set day of the week to play. All understand that by not showing up they don't get to play. They know and lament that they are missing out so make every effort to show up the following sessions. No concessions are made for unaccommodating work schedules. It was simply the arrangement upon each member joining. To avoid GM burnout, two of us alternate each week with a different game and characters, etc. On special occasions one of the other players takes a turn being GM providing a one shot game with a different story. Our games happen to all be different TTRPG systems so each is a refreshing alternative to what has been established. We enjoy progressing through together to create a cumulative story. In only two campaigns have our characters reached level 15 or higher. We always progress using milestone.
I’m a new Dungeon Master and I have had two players leave from a party of 5. One left because of a busy life schedule but the other just up and disappeared. Not sure why, but surprisingly the 3 remaining are doing fine through the campaign. These 3 seem to be more into the game anyway so perhaps it was for the best.
I've found when players leave the rest are usually happy about it
No. The fluffy bunnies and unicorns game where nobody dies IS wrong. Why? Because removing consequence destroys the experience--a game where you always win is not fun, pointless, and it is hell.
It's the same as playing rock paper scissors with someone who tells you what they're going to throw every time.
morrigankasa570, who commented on this post, disagrees with you. He or she thinks that there shouldn't be player character death. I told him/her that you might as well show up and declare you've won, without ever playing it, if you don't want there to ever be stakes. It's called role playing GAME. Key word there- GAME.
I had to leave a game once. Not because of a bad dm or anything, it was actually a really fun campaign. But i was moving countries and calling in wasnt likely to work due to internet issues. The DM (bless his soul) put together a scene just to send me off and give my character an epic death. My dräken cleric jumped into a portal to drive out an ethereal threat even the gods were afraid to encounter, and as she did so, turned into a huge ethereal panther rippling with the power of all the gods
But the moment brouvht the entire table to tears. The storytelling was topnotch, and the music wed been playinf for the bossfight right before was at such a perfect moment of epicbess but also despiration. I swear i almost cried at that table that night. A few of the other players actually did. Awesome game, pity i had to leave early.
Player honesty at a Session 0 can be a big factor. I've seen players at Session 0 say "I'm good with anything" when they really mean "I'm going to play this the way I want, no matter what kind of game it is." Then they want to loot every body expecting to get tons of magic items and gold in a gritty, low fantasy game and cause friction with other players and GMs.
If every game feels like it needs a human resources session you need to remove problematic players ASAP.
At some point I realized the real problem was D&D itself and I switched to a system that suits my GM style much better and attract players who like playing that way. My regular intense story driven dark campaign is VTM now, with D&D on the side for standalone lighthearted fun.
I do agree, a certain type of players tends to gravitate towards D&d, at least the modern modern versions (including PF), and I really think it's not my kind of jam or crowd. As they say, knowing is half the battle
In my exp scheduling become less of a problem when you specifically look for folks wiling to meet at a set time, it becomes more of a problem when you are trying to get a game going with friends.
I can agree I'm not the best DM ever, but I also know I'm a lot better than I used to be. I'm a bit set in my ways and currently trying to improve the narrative in combat to make it more interesting, but I don't sweat it anymore when a player leaves. I can be disappointed about it, but I don't feel guilty as I used to a long time ago. My game and my style are as they are. If a player isn't liking it, so be it. I have my players who stay, so as long as I have players I continue on.
As a DM, I've even had an envious player try and "steal" players from my game to start her own campaign. That was upsetting, but their spots filled up quickly.
Jokes on her tho - her game collapsed due to her being unable to correct the issues mentioned in this video, and then the stolen players wanted to rejoin my game. I said nope...sorry we're full! And she didn't bother asking to rejoin my game 🤣
Usually I ask about feedback after every session. This method prevented me from players lising fun when I realised that fights became too hard for them.
I have an Excel spreadsheet with the entire year scheduled out. Everyone marks their days they can't make. Helps with planning missed sessions
"As long as you have at least 3 or 4 players to make a game session"
I went from 8 players to barely 3; one of them is basically a loaf of bread.
I'm crying tears...
Bonus points if you've been repeatedly told that you are the best DM they've ever played with... Then they leave...
Online players in my experience have an attrition rate of around 50%. One thing I've found is you have to be prepared to go back recruiting after losing about half the group.
My 3.5 game lost 2 players due to school and work load but we still have 9 players so it’s all good.
Feedback is huge.
Communication is too
You had 11 players?? Geez
@@wyatthill6252 I know someone who runs for 11 players and they encouraged a completely new DM first time ever running to attempt at 9 players, despite my protests.
Yeah that new campaign ended up burning in flames. Ya gotta be really experience not just in running the game, but in hosting lots of people if you wanna go for it.
@@shaokhanwins1037 Yeah running 9 players is brutal. Just the slowdown from having that many people on the battlefield is going to lead to a glacial pace. Honestly I don't know how you'd do it unless you do radical house rules like replace the initiative system with a declare-first style.
As a DM has always been about having fun with the game, letting players run the story I lay out in front of them. My most recent experience though had me never want to DM again. It became like a second job with players constantly wanting to RP on discord and whatsapp with me ( I mean like upwards of 40 messages a day), constantly metagaming, and arguing about how something works. I had to take a month off because of work (traveling for 2 weeks) and home life (house being tented) and immediately one player was like "well if you don't have time maybe we should end the campaign then". I had a lush multiverse travel story planned out that would have taken the characters from lvl 1 to 20 and over years, but game ended after 1 year and had to rush the ending.
I would say the point of my little story is that sometimes it is the players that cause the DM to not want to prepare better for the games with constant RPing outside of the game, metagaming, and arguing.
Real talk as veteran dm and player it bugs me when I play in a campaign that is seriously themed and my fellow players cannot remember the most basic stuff they can do or the question of in every session “what do I add for my attack roll?”
"I just want to remind everybody- Don't be the smelly kid. Nobody likes the smelly kid. Everybody make fun of the smelly kid. Just- don't be the smelly kid."
I always check in with my players every five sessions or so to make sure they're still having fun, things they would like to see and any feedback for me.
I was running a game for my partner and we had a big discussion about how the current campaign wasn't really tying into their current goals. After that I pivoted to make it more focused and the campaign was much better as a result.
Feedback is key, so long as the players also except the feedback you give them.
I hate this episode and it really highlights why I stopped DMing TTRPGs. Players watch content like this with us because they often aspire to be GMs/DMs, and it kind of sets unrealistic expectations. "Do this..", "Always get better...", "Never do this..."
It's very unfair to do the catch all of, "your stuff's boring if you're doing all these other things." There are SO MANY things we're told to do as GMs/DMs that its exhausting because players want so much. Great you get a survey, but most won't say anything until they're just bored or mad and then quit.
What is more important is not what you're doing, it's how your group gels. Some groups will love railroading/player agency taken occasionally to tell a larger story they are part of. I have seen just as many games fall apart because the DM relies on the players to do all the actions in game. Obviously toxicity is bad, but there are tables that have it regularly and function well with it because they are that audience. I'm not condoning, mind you, and I make damn sure my Session Zeros have that and other ways to take into consideration people's concerns and triggers.
What prospective GMs need to do is screen their players by running one-offs until they find a group that gels well. I miss TTRPGs, but I don't miss the drama that seems to come over and over again in different forms. Call me the problem, fine, I don't think a GM can make an agnostic environment where no one will leave. I also believe you can do the things you aren't supposed to and find great success. It's about the people and not so much the product.
Even many years in to my long running campaign, it is frustrating that half of the players don't seem to treat the game as a weekly/bi-weekly commitment to an activity. We play via VTT and showing up on time is a rare occurrence for several players. We play the same day & time every week. And like suggested here, I don't skip sessions for missing players. I'll happily run with 2 PCs. This has caused, frequently, some players who have said they were unavailable on a certain night to magically show up anyway. FOMO is real
The only time I cohosted as a dm, mainly because I was asked to do narration an theatrics, my players had a blast and they told me at the end that that was because we could communicate and they felt confident telling me what they didn't want. I was told that in most games Game masters just asume that everything they do is entertaining and we'll rounded. So it feels weird thinking that admitting that you are to blame as a gm is not the norm.
I had a GM that made one of my backstory NPCs gaslight (from my POV) my character. I asked what she was planning on doing, but wouldnt. TLDR: i half quit, half kicked out.
It was my very first character, and I joined seesion 1 and not session 0.
I personally have never had to deal with the hygiene issue however, I was nearby when a DM had that conversation with someone. It turned out in that case the player was doing it on purpose. The player was playing a Druid with a low charisma and as a result was using it as a role-playing aid. The DM and the player always had a smile or a chuckle anytime someone commented after that exchange.
Another great video Luke. I especially liked the surveys as sometimes players don't like to voice their opinions or prefer to be discreet and avoid arguments. I found your opinions to be fair, and I think you looked at the situation from all or at least most of the angles. I look forward to your next video.
I've set expectations when I was a new DM to give me feedback through private Messages rather than ghosting where it leads me to having nothing to build upon to make the game better. I was in the military at the time and was very new to dming. I had more enthusiasm from fellow soldiers playing in person rather than online. I could not figure out for the life of me why people online would suddenly disappear vs people that showed up in person to play? I was doing the same things in person, as I was online. The only difference was people couldn't see me jumping around like a fool describing combat. lol
I had some players online who were saying there was no problem and that they thought I was doing pretty good especially being a new DM. Unfortunately, those players had to see a game drop off because I decided to just stick with my in person game rather than deal with a slog fest of trying to get a game started online. Eventually I turned back to online and unfortunately scheduling and getting people to actually show up caused that game to drop off. Now I run a game with great players who love being there just as much as I love running a game for them.
The ghosting problem I still have no clue why those players just disappeared? But my reason points to that it is something that those types of people do. Rather than helping to solve an issue they'd rather run away from the problem. Before I was a DM I could not stand people like this and still can't. Ghosting in my opinion is just cowardice in my experience. If I was doing something wrong I told people I would fix it. My players at the table knew this and I told people that I am open to any harsh criticism. Because I knew I was going to need it to improve the gaming experience and myself. Something soldiers have to do if they are expected to be a leader at any point in time. That to me is a good game to find when you have a GM who understands that improvement is a necessity rather than not being able to accept criticism and never changes. I am no way sour over this terrible experience I had to go through to find a good group. I was bitter about it at first but now Honestly, it made me stronger because I decided to try again and not give up. It resulted in me finding a great player base that has been playing for 2 years now. 1 player has been around longer than that. This made me better in every way.
However, word of warning, If you decide to run a game online or simply just play one, be sure to understand that you are gonna have to go through a slog fest of finding a good table to play at. You may get kicked out at times because you don't fit the group or simply lose players and they say nothing. But eventually you will get there like I did and love every minute of your gaming experience. There is a lot of shitty people out there. Don't let that stop you from never playing or running a game ever. You'll get there. Just takes time. Been running dnd games since 2018. Took till 2021 to finally get something solid.
yep, ghosting is cowardice. Too many cowards in this world. We've had many people ghost us over the years.
Session zero I told my players that we play as long as we have half the group (at least 2 people). Tho I've run for a solo player cause I was ready and they still wanted to play.
Next video - "My D&D GMs are ghosting" 😅
I'm considering leaving my group.
They let an alcoholic back in after being removed several times.
And the DM won't reign in a cheater.
I have often voiced my opinion on these issues, only to be overruled.
The old adage applies. No DnD is better than bad DnD
Also currently reading Justin Alexander's book 👍
TY. Had a good player quit on my today. Upset me. They complained about my GM style. You need to ENJOY your game as the GM. Also. GMs are rare. Players are a dime a dozen. I feel better.
The rest quit today. HMMMMMM Oh well.
IRL, Players return because they like the other players. A GM has to be really bad to drive off players that like each other. Online, the GM has to be really good to keep any players.
My biggest regret was not getting the rules right for my rogue player before I lost them. I was a bit confused about surprise, unseen attackers, and the sneak attack flowchart for about 3 sessions.
I'll be honest, I ghosted my players.
Some of my players wanted to change venues and it was part of this constant push to socially "take over" the group, so I just let them.
EDIT: I should point out this was first trying to push for use of minis (I always let them use their own stuff), then trying to push for events at their house instead of neutral settings, and then I had some wanting to use virtual tools, which I have no interest in using (remember, I was the DM).
Sometimes you need to know when to just quit, even if you're the DM.
Did you tell them bye or you just disappeared?
I've been solo playing D&D most of the until recently. I just play through and write a story about it.
I really like the point on the problem, perhaps not being the root cause of the issue. This sometimes can lead to very good outcomes if the root cause is a positive want and the player is just using a maladaptive behavior that can be changed to something more prosocial
Great Video, Thank you
Talking about hygiene is an art form. I have had to do several times in my occupation. The sad fact is that most individuals that have hygiene issues, don't know they have an issue, because they never learned what good hygiene means. They can't smell it, because it's them and they are used to it or they thought everyone smells that why because they smell it everywhere.
Best way I've started the conversation was to "self identify" (really you are lying about your self) and say something like, "I apologies today was really chaotic and I was not able to .... (shower, forgot to use deodorant, etc.) today.... You have now drawn everyone into the conversation to have a discussion then close with something like, "You all deserve better from me, and I'll ensure to do (insert bad hygiene habit and expected frequency, daily probably) so that I'm not distracting you form the fun that you hope to have each to we play.
That works most of the time especially, if you gesture towards them like "I know you know."
Nice tips! I have a player that is constantly telling (out of game) what the other players should do next. The problem is that it happens during the encounter and on other players turns. They are all a friendly bunch. I keep telling him not to play other players characters, but is stronger than him. Any tips about that?
Move the spotlight back to the current player's turn by telling him, "let them decide what they do, only offer advice when it is asked for" or something like that.
Many players like to discuss strategy, but it depends on the table. We prefer to act like our character would act, rather than dissect an encounter from a player perspective.
When I was spending 20 hours preparing for every session (New to DMing at the time) constantly trying to calibrate to my players and my players can't be bothered to learn the rules after a year of playing and never look into what they want to pick up next level up until the session after they gained a level, especially after I asked them to pick their subclass at least a day before so I can prepare the material for it
Yeah that ain't on me
That group fell apart because I decided to quit the group and of course no one was willing to fill in the DM seat for that group
THANK GOD FOR VTT's idk if I have the CON to tell someone to take a bath 💀
Am I the only one who would nope out if a game because the GM plays with Player Character Death and/or Gritty Reality?
See you at Garycon! Fellow Michigander.
@4:12 Luck is where preparation meets opportunity.
My current game I made a character that just wants to have fun and looks out to protect people only killing to protect. The DM gave me a cursed item that makes me kill out of vengeance, so yeah, my characters core values have just been destroyed and once the cursed item is removed he might ended up just leaving and to top it off another player keeps pointing out trying to lynch my character for some actions he has taken with the rest of the party meanwhile his character does bad shit on purpose as to where my character is acting in the sense to protect and made a few mistakes in his approach and even expressed to the group of his mistake and has taken a different path in life to better protect.
I've unfortunately had to have the hygiene talk with a player. It went relatively well. Turned out, I wasn't just my game (or gaming) where it was an issue, and the person ended up carrying around spray deodorant in his vehicle to use before he exited the vehicle everywhere.
In my decades of DMing, I've had to ask people to leave for many different reasons, from not showing up, to showing up drunk, from disturbing the group, to cheating, to just being annoying to be around. Some have taken it well, but sadly most have not.
I've lost players for even more reasons. Scheduling conflicts are by far the most common, probably followed by wanting a different type of game. A handful of times it has been social issues within the group.
Yeah, I've had to host the hygiene discussion once or twice... once with this big lovable hulk of a guy who didn't understand basic common courtesies... Things like "personal space" and "soap" had little meaning to him. He was friendly to a fault, generous (brought snacks for everyone and gave rides to/from game as needed) and an overall Nice guy. He was also, unfortunately, socially awkward to the point of cluelessness. Eventually after receiving several complaints from other players, I had to have a private talk with the big goof. He was hurt by others' perception of him and I felt like I had just kicked a puppy, but in the end he made more of an effort to be considerate of others' needs and the game group got along better because of it. But man, I hated to be the guy that had to bring that up.
DM since 1977... The only players to leave my campaigns in the middle were transferred under military orders.
Friday afternoon every week games for most campaigns. Often using the building I worked in for a place to play. EXP leveling. Show up or no EXP.
EXP leveling. Show up or no EXP. Attendance is an out of game situation, don't reward and punish them in game.
That is how I ran my game. We had 4 full time players and 2 sometimes players. You want the EXP, be there. Started in 79.
Exp leveling is awesome.@@shaokhanwins1037
@@gustaafargoan I thought people played to have fun, not to have the exp
@@leonardorossi998 Yep, and the people that had fun got XP.
Sitting here watching a great, informative video from Luke while eating bacon, wondering when and why he stopped mentioning bacon all the time.
Great Video!!
I had one friend who worked for the highway department. So during summer, we made him shower before he left his house. And on some days, he left his sneakers outside, and rebathed his feet as soon as he walked in the door.
I have a group that legitimately has "something come up" for at least one person about 8-9 weeks straight in between sessions. There is only 3 players...
Running a game club, with five tables at the same time, we have five times the risk for all of this.
great as always👌
I have to drive an hour for the game i run. If you no call no show one time you're being replaced.
Why is it necessary for you to drive so far if you are the DM? Shouldn't players be coming to you?
@bukkist It's not necessary for me to drive out there, that's the point. But all my players live out that way and the game store I used to run games at closed last year.
Most of my family lives out that way, too. I'm actually originally from that area. I know it pretty well.
So, why would I make 5 other people drive out here, where there is no place to play at? There is no place closer or in between.
Sounds like you and *J Scott Garibay* are learning what your videos do to people.
You 2 might want to create a support group together. 🤔
I usually lose interest in paid games. It's hard to feel like I am developing friendships when getting charged $$ every time we get together to roll dice. I join those games because I struggle to get my friends to DM, and because I hope to learn from a professional DM. But ultimately, these paid games leave me feeling like a client instead of a friend.
My experiences have mostlt been online, and mostly without video. The personal hygiene thing hasn't come up yet.
I had to abandon 5e because the games took too long, according to my players. I introduced them to advanced tiny dungeons. Listen to your players GM.
9:46 Wamuu, Esidisi and Kars.
Scheduling is the worst.
I used to be in a band, there were four of us practicing in a small shed.Our bass player tyler smelled like a rotting goblin.We just straight up told him he stunk, some people dont take many showers. -8 to charsima saves
I have 9 players weekly. With several more that pop in and out. You can have mine luke.
If the DM is having difficulty talking to the players about conflict resolution, either a. somebody isn't fit for the job, or b. maybe they should all do it in-character and roll some dice. But at that point it kinda sounds like they might all need some personal therapy. (OH NO! Is there already such a thing as rpg group therapy? Cuz if not, I forsee it in the very near future. Now I really wish I'd thought of this 10 years ago.) Point is, the game can teach you a lot about life. Try to pay attention. Also, I'm available for consultation. Check my socials for availability and to set up an appointment. Reasonable rates. 🙂
I was invited to join a Saturday night group by a DM I considered a friend. This group had been a friend group for decades before I joined. After a few sessions it was clear that I was gaming a little more sandboxie than they did . The DM told me taht he was tired and did not want to run two games a week. So we parted ways, at the game table. I still worked with two of the folks there. A couple of weeks later one of my coworkers asked if I could drop something off at the DMs house on Saturday night. I arrived to find a DM game in full swing and a different member in "my seat." It was another of their childhood friends. I wish the DM had just said he wanted the chair, and I could have acknowledged we gamed a little differently. Adulting can be uncomfortable, I deal with conflict everyday at work, it's literally what I do so it's a bit less uncomfortable to me, but it would have benn nice to have been told the truth up front. No harm, no foul, just life.
Happened to me once too, that one haunts me slightly too because I to this day don't know what I said or did that pissed those dudes off. I wasn't rude or playing a bombastic character, or stepping on over other people to get to my thing. Just one day, one of my better friends in the group just said, they don't wanna play with you anymore, no explanation. I'm happy you at least got an answer.
My favorite? Guy calls out for session 1 because Guild Wars 2 got a new expansion. Lmao. Bro go on be one of the tens of people playing.
One thing I’d add is: It’s totally fine and normal for adults with jobs and families to decide they’ve had an enjoyable few adventures or campaigns and… just want to do other things with their limited free time, at least for a while. This is not necessarily a failure of the DM or the group, or a problem that needs solving. Sometimes the best thing to do might be to find a satisfactory conclusion or resting point for a group or characters and take a break.
So what does a DM do if the time they can DM doesn't seem to work for anyone? (As in their day off is the day all other potential players are working....?)
How does one get players to even agree to show up on that day much less show up on that day?
@1:54 How many games are with _more_ than 3 or 4 players? Seriously, I haven't played in a group with 5 or more players since high school (_several_ decades ago). 3 players plus a GM is _when everyone shows up_. :)
So I'm a quiet player, an introvert. I think a lot, don't say much and don't like interrupting, and often don't like being the centre of attention. It makes me nervous.
In my last campaign we had a lot of loud talkers so in order to take part I'd have to blurt something out to get a word in. Quite often abruptly with out explaining my thought processes, or stumbling over my words.
A few times I bumped in to "solutions" of puzzles, or did something odd that made the DM suspect I was cheating.
Example 1). I refused to eat the dream pastries in Barovia/strahd because we had just killed a load of zombies outside a tavern and yet this old lady thought it was a good idea to be wandering outside at night. I was suspicious, DM didn't like it.
2) That hag's wandering hut. New character, my first attempt at playing a full caster (druid). I wanted to play as a battle field controller so I attempted to cast Dispel Magic on the obviously magical hut to see what would happen. Dm throws a fit and openly but indirectly accuses me of cheating.
This happened a few times over several months. The Hut encounter was the last straw so I made an excuse and quit.
That's an unfortunate situation. Although throwing a fit and any form of accusation is very wrong on the DM's part, I would understand why they wouldn't like what you're doing. Running a well known module and having a player just randomly solve things can be quite alarming.
Has your DM ever asked what your thoughts are or your character's thoughts are and if they want to say or do anything? It is the DM's job afterall.
My group is also a mix mash of extreme extrovert loud talkers and extreme introverts that usually remain silent. If I don't do anything the extroverts can yap for a long time and the introverts just spectates or get talked over.. What I do is that I always check up on everyone and ask for their thoughts/character's thoughts and if there's anything they'd like to say or do. Lot's of the introverted ones actually has a lot to say when asked, and asking them make them feel less like they're interrupting something.
@@shaokhanwins1037We were both going through mental health issues honestly. We could have and should have talked it through.
Without a doubt he WAS one of the best DMs I've played with. But our circumstances got in the way and I didn't want to ruin the game for the other players.
This was during covid so we were on voice coms and Roll20 and we didn't get the cross table body language signals either. It was tough.
But no not once was I asked to clarify any thought processes I had.
Really, when I see most Problem Player or Problem DM videos, it's almost like they are mentioning things that scream out, "do you really have such worthless people in your lives?" I don't plan games, so you can't read my notes. Cheating players is simple, cheat back. They'll get the message. Or not. Won't matter to me. So many things written in DM guides and it's almost insultingly obvious how to solve the problem. Make it known, you don't want to railroad the group. The price is they need to wait a bit longer when zigging will cost time that zagging wouldn't have. Make it known you consider monsters in the books as just suggestions. So reading the monster stats won't help. Same with adventures. "Oh you played this before? awesome. I've changed a lot of the details." I won't let quiet players get ignored, and I won't let aggressive players dominate. And yep, I use ALL of their stats, including the dump stats. I can role play, and i can roll play. I have an active imagination, and I'm also a hard core wargamer. Want to play 'rules as written'? Oh I can do that too. If you treat your PC as an extension of you, you will find out my monsters can be an extension of me. And I can be w real total bitch :)
Discussing personal hygiene issues with your players is extremely awkward, not to mention uncomfortable, for a DM/GM. At every session 0 I like to remind my players to make sure to bathe and put on deodorant before coming to each game session. Definitely not the most pleasant of conversations… 😬
Why otakus an Furrys doesn't bath?
after playing everything from monty haul to real death make 5 characters before playing. played real world simulation with every optional rule on encumbrance and food/rest.
personally i like a good fantasy game with common sense rulings. could you do that yes or no. then move on. no rules lawyer period. dm/gm is the rules lawyer as it is their game and table. the books as written are not set in stone unbreakable rules. they are guidelines to keep the game flowing. there may be books or supplements the dm/gm is using that you do not have access too. hence our no rules lawyer rule. biggest issue is players that in real life know stuff about the game that they bring to the character at the table. no your barbarian did not know that wizard is using such and such spell etc.
Why do you say “…fall to their highest level of preparation” rather than “…fall to their level of preparation “?
#1. Flat out, if your friends signed up for a volleyball league, a martial art, or a cooking class they would make time for the thing they scheduled. If your group is struggling to get together, it's because they *don't want to play the game*. Your solution is right, play without them, but the problem isn't that schedules are hard, the problem is your friends don't want to play. Schedules aren't hard.
#2. You have to be an incredibly hsitty human being to show up for your hobby and blame your DM for you not having a good time. If you showed up to play baseball and didn't have a good time and blamed it on the pitcher for not facilitating fun well enough, you'd be appropriately mocked. You should be mocked for doing it in D&D too. It's not their fault that you aren't having fun, it's your fault that you aren't having fun. You might not even like D&D.
The guy who keeps opening doors during combat? Get to fight the new enemies in mass First Should resolve issues quickly enough. Murder hobos: start with hauntings if needed go to possessions, then tthings get worse. The group and always opt not to raise the troublemaker so he can begin a new character once. If it continues he is ouit of the game.
Very e
If you got players dusting you at frequency to the point you're actually wondering if you are the problem, you are the problem.
It's the game masters job to take responsibility for running the game. That means scheduling, managing conflicts, players entering or exiting.
If they are ALL leaving, look within...it's you.
Oh god too many players sucks. It’s so boring as a player. 4hrs session and you get 20min of play time.