Removing a Player from Your D&D Group: 8 Warning Signs and How to Do It
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ก.ค. 2021
- When and how to remove a bad player from a D&D or RPG group is a classic dilemma for game masters. Every dungeon master has dealt with "that guy" in their gaming group at least once; every DM wishes they just weren't in the game. And yet kicking a player from a gaming group can be one of the most difficult parts of running an RPG. In this video, I discuss 8 warning signs that it's time to remove a player from your RPG or D&D game and how to do it.
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#dnd #dungeonsanddragons - เกม
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You don't have to answer but I was wondering if you had any game openings, if so can anyone join, and then if so how would one go about signing up?
I like how you are playing the complaints close to the chest that a lot of the player base is starting to have. Have a good one and keep up the skits.
What if that player is the DM? No answer required.🙂
I'm not afraid to admit to how uncomfortable that thumbnail makes me.
I like watching people fight each other. It's often hilarious. It also means the spotlight isn't on me. I'm usually the ass hole. So it's awesome when someone else is the ass hole for a change.
🚩: high pitched voice,
🚩:Says “stabby stabby” a lot,
🚩:Never reveals their face,
🚩: always wears edge lord black.
Yeah, that'll do it
hey dont you dare hate on my edge lord black. the other 3 maybe red flags but my edge lord black isnt >:v
The fat cat??....
I play a kobold, so a high pitched voice is mandatory
True, but if he actually brings value to the game, plays nicely with the other players, contributes to the party, and causes no drama, then all of those red flags are simply flags of color.
The problem is that a lot of actual problem players also sport those flags.
I like how the VOCAL minority axed him for his voice. Beautiful irony.
Yeah that was beautiful. :-)
But isn't Gary the Intern also high pitched or is that racist? ... this a kobold trick?
"Due to unpopular demand"
I remember when I was the dreaded "that guy" of every group I could find. I would be whiny and disruptive whenever I felt my time was being wasted. Oh how selfish and foolish I was. I am glad that one DM finally sat me down and decided to kick me for my behavior. It turned me around and now I have stuck with my current group for almost a year now, enjoying every session of it. I took a long look at myself and how I was treating others and decided to change, all I needed was that little wake up call from a DM. Kick your that guy, it might just turn them around for the better.
Hopefully this improvement in self-awareness will aid you outside the game as well.
@@MonkeyJedi99 it did
@@brenndanc1112 Being able to look at yourself honestly takes a special something. Props.
Well done! You are on the right path! Keep up the good work.
I was somewhat similar to the rules lawyer and power gamer. This was a LONG time ago, but what helped me was when I met a group of people that said things like "my player character would do ..." I found that I put myself in to my characters and they were basically me with powers. Once I really made a character and played a balanced game, my character died. I was cool with it and didn't really put up any mess as just rolled with hit.
Many a time I've had to tell DMs:
Your D&D players are not your children! You don't have the responsibility of putting up with their bad behavior over and over and over again for 18+ years until they finally decide to mend their ways and/or leave the group on their own volition. You don't have to do that. Kicking out a problem player is NOT the same as disowning your child.
He Holied his last crap... Rest in pepperonies Rogue, gone but never forgotten
Holy crap that's catchy!
Luke: "You don't get points for long suffering in D&D"
My priest of Ilmater would disagree...
I relate to this way too much
Our group dropped down to 3 players, and allowed a group of 4 friends join. After a some weeks, one of the people caused trouble and was asked not to return at the end of a session. WE didn't know if any of them would return. The next week, the other 3 showed up and their attitude was better towards the game, and all were great players.
I'm a new DM. I started this year (aroud april) dming for my childhood friend's. I'm really excited for this oportunity (the're new to table tops) so i crafted a lot things to my table (i made maps, mini manuals, exclusive npc art, real miniatures, i even managed to plot every backstory to the worldbuilding and to each other backstory so everyone has something in commun). I invited friends i know that already play dnd so it's less for me as a new dm to explain how to play to my friends and to be it more fun. I know i went big, it's my kinda thing and everyone in my table love it, 'cause it shows how much i care about them.
And, there its "that guy". He started complaning about little things around the first time we play together. Things i think it was ok to complain, so i took his criticism and changed it, but he complained about other things, and other, and other, and other. He complained to me about other player having a romantic interest on one npc he had interest too. He complained about me "not giving enough" as a dm. He complained to me when side missions weren't completed (because as a party, they didn't do it (time related side quest btw)). He yelled at one of the rookie player when she did something she think was right. He determined the rhythm of how quick can complet quest without give the party a proper time to relax (and later complained to me that i wasn't give them enough time to rolplay). This was every month. We play 1 day, and i have him closed doors complaining about every single detail for DAYS. I talked to him every time, i said that his attitude was disruptive, that he was kinda playing solo, and that i can't fix things that were him not wanting to talk to the party. I think i was clear enough (i'm autistic so i maybe miss things). In his last session together, he left the campain and said i was making him uncomfortable and removing his player agency (i only said to him "no" to his solo ideas and let the others in the party really decide if they want to do what he wants or not).
My first encounter with a problem player and it wasn't pleasant. I only regret not asking him to leave early.
All great advice, but the core of why many DMs _don't_ kick players from their games when they should is fear of confrontation. And this is why #2 is so crucial to me.
If you don't kick a persistently problematic player from your group, you're going to lose the people you _like_ running a game for.
Yes, and the fact they are most likely playing with close friends and fear losing them if they do anything or fear not being able to find another game.
Sometimes people play with close friends/family who aren't bad people irl so the dm prioritizes that relationship. For example by brother is a problem player sometimes and has been kicked out of a group before. I don't plan on kicking him out of mine tho (bc I know how to deal with him)
Exactly why I had to kick someone this last year... He did great rp and stuff
But he would argue like he was on Twitter, happened twice and I know at least two of my players were not in the mood to game after that. He refused to change.
the tough part when I was playing was numbers, either put up with it or play with two people
@@doncraig6864 you can play with just 1 other person
It’s happened to me, i had a player that basically gave me an ultimatum becuase they didnt think that there was enough roleplay in our game, we were only 3 sessions into the game and we were all a group of strangers on Discord so everyone was still very shy and trying to get a feel for eachother. The final straw was when she started ignoring my rules during the game simply because “thats not what the book says!” Even though i made it very clear from the start that i dont play 100% by the rules on the books .
TLDR
Dont put up with shit that ruins the game for you as the dm and all the other players
Absolutely. It was great that she revealed her true colors that early in the campaign. Makes it a lot easier to get rid of her
@@theDMLair yeah, it was something that had to be done for the betterment of the party and for my own sake
If you cannot play 100% to the rules your story has design flaws.
@@pst5345 Ever heard of homebrew?
@@pst5345 agreed! and my favourite rule that is repeated in just about every core book WOTC puts out is 'these are more guidelines than ironclad rules, feel free to tweak some or all of them as it suits your specific game'
Don't worry people, the rogue always finds a way. *Always*
RIP rouge…. FOR NOW???
Disguise Kit ftw
Its what his character would do.
*laughs* oi! Spoilers!
“Sometimes a player wants to talk in funny voices to npcs and the rest want to just kill stuff and dungeon crawl” Eeek…
all of the signs mentioned in this relate to the player we had to ask to leave (we don't just kick. we always give an ultimatum for the player to change their ways or leave cordially). He brought the game quality down (by quite literally tried to stop other players from playing their characters like they wanted to, etc), tried finding loopholes in our table rules to do things, caused several players to contact me about him, constantly tried gaslighting/manipulating me if he wanted something, made DnD unfun for me, and actively argued with everyone about rules (like a 30 minute argument about his spell slot and Metamagic usages). It took a few weeks for me to work up the courage to get him to leave, but finally did it after he sent a 2000 word rant insulting and belittling me.
After finally having him leave, we got a player to fill in the slot after him, and she's one of my best players I've had in the recent times.
Great to hear!
It wasn't fun but you went through the hardest part of being a DM pretty much unscathed. Just remember this the next time something happens and it should make it easier for you.
One of my players (A) recently requested that his friend (B) join our game. My policy is that I do not accept new players I do not know until I see how they mesh with our group. So, one of the other players (C) volunteered to run a one-shot as a trial-run for the would-be new player (B). The trial player (B) was so atrocious, annoying, and obstructive that the friend who invited her in (A) and his best friend (D) hog-tied her character in game. After the one-shot, my player (A) said nothing more about adding his friend (B) to our game.
A one-shot trial run is a great way to test whether a player will fit with your group and I recommend everyone try it. It's a nice short departure from the regular game (and may give the forever-DM a chance to play!) If it doesn't go well, or is disruptive or destructive, then it didn't touch on your regular game. If something happened that raised eyebrows, you have the chance to address it before it's officially a problem. Ask for feedback! Your players will tell you what worked for them and what didn't. The new player's feedback might also help determine whether they're right for your group. If things don't work out, then hey, it was just a one-shot. Everyone can part ways amicably.
A game of rummy, monopoly, or something similar will also work.
The "good" point of people never having time to play, from my experience, is they argue much less than other type of problem players when you break it to them. I guess the "social excuse" comes into play for this.
I had to remove myself from a campaign for this reason. Still good friends with everyone who played at that table, just couldn't manage raising a toddler and a D&D campaign at the same time. I'll find another group when my kids are in a less time-consuming stage of their lives.
One of the players that has annoyed me the most is one of that treats the other players like NPCs in the game. Just casting spells on other people without permission or even telling the person first. They also like their spells to be surprises so they don't want to tell us what they are planning ahead of time which has led to a number of disasters.
It just creates a dynamic which has very little groupwork. If you are sneaking in a dungeon don't just surprise the rogue scouting for traps by polymorphing them into a giant bird and then jumping on their back because you think that is a better way to move forward.
I’m gonna be honest it probably sucks at the moment you’re playing… but that’s actually really funny. Like, to be a fly on the wall for.
The Bender Rodriguez or Rick Sanchez archetype of funny where it’s funny to watch but probably intolerable to be around
Can you share more of the stuff they’ve done that made people mad I honestly think this is hysterical
“I snapped…and Beevis never returned to our games.” 🤔😱
Thanos be like.
One hundred percent he murdered him super hard.
I love the idea that Luke snapped his fingers at the game table and two burly dudes suddenly came out of the corner of the room and carried Beevis, kicking and screaming, away from the game never to be seen again.
Luke: (to the rest of the party) Now where were we?
@@xdecatron2985 Oh, please let this be an upcoming skit.
@@AuntLoopy123 Lol, that would be great!
At this point I don't even need the advice I'm just watching for the good content lol. Keep up the great content
00:59 this is best critic/satire on how modern game companies are reacting to social media that I have ever seen.
That slice alone was worth the whole video. Thank you sir.
You are quite welcome! :D
This is illuminating.
I started playing when I was 12 or so, in a group where everyone was much older than me. My brother was the DM most of the time, and on several different campaigns his friend was DM. In the games where his friend was DMing, I would play, but effectively had no voice. When my brother would DM they would argue, and his friend would single me out to tell me all I did wrong. I played with them for 7 years, before I just couldn't do it anymore. The player I got along with best had quit, my brother was tired of DMing (I think largely due to the arguing), and they still treated me like I was a small child, even though I'd read all the rulebooks relevant, and was quite willing to do any level of roleplaying. I sat through dozens of switches in campaigns, rulesets, everything. I tried a different group later, with my brother, but there too, an incredibly annoying ruleslawyer, singled me out because I was younger than her and the others. She even critisised me for drawing my character with a different body shape than I have, and continued to essetially body shame me because I'm curvy (I use the word in the genuine sense, as "with curves" rather than as a masked way of saying rotund) and I drew my gutter rat rogue scrawny. If the people DMing those games, my brother and his other friend, had said, "Okay, you can't do that." and then consequently followed up with the "can't" of it, then maybe I'd still be playing. I haven't played since, because honestly, finding people who can be genuinely respectful of other players, and don't have to have things be super fast is not easy at all. It's really sad, because I love ttrpgs. Don't think my brother ever got that I kept declining because the groups he played with were not tolerable for me. Hope that maybe someday I can manage to find people to play with again. I'd even DM shorter campaigns for the right group.
Sorry for ranting like this. Most D&D content I don't feel so comfortable interacting with, but this was okay, and interesting.
"What kind of company has a business model where they let the loud-mouthed idiots on Twitter tell them what to do?"
Throwing some serious shade in this skit
The kind of company that deserves to lose business.
*violent coughing ensues* WotC *violent coughing intensifies*
The answer is Digital Extremes
@@GeneralTantzu so most big companies
...Twitter?
Who would hate the rogue? His catch phrase "Ho-lee crap" is iconic!!!
Ho Lee is the old man's name. And the rogue knows command.
@@eros5420 I laughed way harder than I should have.
Dont forget "are you stupid!?"
One player we removed begged more than once to be let back in. When another player basically says, "If you let him back in, I'm leaving," and he is a much better and engaged player, it makes the decision pretty easy.
Something you didn't mention - a player almost got violent in an argument about how I run NPCs. That was his last session. When a player loses their cool over a game, I don't care how good a role-player they are, I don't have the time nor the patience. Bye.
Now I am more curious how to identify if your are the problem player on your own. More like self awareness.
I think that kind of stuff is discovered when you are actually kicked off the table.
I realized it after my first campaign; I was experimenting with every mechanic possible which griefed other players. That was not my intention, and the DM was using humiliation as a means of teaching. I was fine with that and was weighing my decisions a little better each time. Though it was too late... the other players despised me. It got worse because of the fact the DM allowed other players to make a skill check against me. They were allowed to charm me into roleplaying a certain way, for example. Eventually the Rogue stole all my equipment and I died a couple of sessions later. I was not asked to make a new character because we had 11 players at the time and I was never invited back for a different campaign.
Here's the thing; I have a social disorder and I told everyone this at session zero, and to be honest if I was doing something wrong. That's why the "humiliation" tactic took so long for me to catch onto. If the DM just spoke to me in private and explained how the game flow worked and addressed specific problems other players had with me, I would have been much better.
Thankfully that was over 10 years ago, and 5e has brought much more direct, less adversarial DMs for me to play with.
Since that first campaign, I've been a much better player and had much more fun.
Top 8 Reasons to Kick Players
1. The Player Shoots Heroin during your game.
2. They keep trying to struggle snuggle other players or PCs.
3. They pull a gun irl.
4. They dont bring snacks.
5. The fudge their rolls.
6. They Smell Bad.
7. They play a Bard.
8. They have a high pitched voice.
I don't see a problem with bards as long as it's not the player's excuse to try to jump every female NPC.
I would switch 4 and 5 then cut every thing after the new 4
ps if a player comes to the session inebriated in any way and that is not what your groop expects then kick them
I've gone through having to remove a player just about 3 months ago. It's hard and it is not something i enjoyed doing but it had to be done. This playing was sucking the fun out of the game for my other players some who told me they weren't going to stay if "x" player remained. At the same time the x player sucked my fun as DM, i started half assing my sessions. Lastly this one player laughed at and critiqued both what players said or did (with their characters) and at times what i had npcs say. She wasted a lot of play time. Finally i had a long hard talk with the player and excused her from my game. I hated doing it but when i resumed played i knew the correct choice was made. Fun was restored are games were more productive and much more laughter occurred.
Rogue got voted off? Could this be monk Luke's time to shine?
Nooooo, I love the rogue with his “staby, staby…..” I cast raise dead!
In my group "that player" rage quit after being told to shut up when he spent an hour arguing over a DM ruling. The DM didnt even say no, just that the dc would be harder. But bc the player didnt have a near guarantee to have his idea be a success instead of accepting and letting the dice decide, he kept hemming and hawing over what to do, and arguing why his idea should just be allowed to happen. And he left, then disappeared from the discord. Then we discussed and realized the game was actually better without him.
Isn't it amazing how bad behaviors can slip in so no one realizes what's happening? I just realized recently what happened with my last group that I was DMing for. For months I slowly stopped doing a lot of stuff because of the player's behavior, but I didn't realize how bad it was because it happened over a long stretch of time.
When everything came crumbling down (because of course it did) I got flooded with messages that I was a shit DM, that I needed to grow up and learn how to talk to adults (ironic seeing as I had to lock down the discord because they were flooding it with softcore gay porn during the game because "haha dudes kissing") and I believed it and stopped DMing until this Saturday when I ran a one shot for the group I'm a player in now and I had so much fun and I realized just how toxic that other group was. And as obvious as it is now, it was such a slow burn that I just didn't realize how bad it was until after the fact.
Sorry for the rant, this has been eating at me for days.
@@ssfbob456 yup. As a teacher, it's amazing how an entire classroom environment can change when one student is missing. Class of 30 kids. Missing one kid and you have a highly productive class.
@@ssfbob456 so you were the exact reverse "That Guy" - a good soul in a room full of WhatevsLulz. Incompatible people don't have to play with each other, and having to LART the odd one constantly is no fun (except maybe, a group full of jerks thinks that sort of thing is hilarious).
Congrats on your escape, and huzzah for your newfound joys.
@@ssfbob456 Too many DMs trap themselves within groups whose playstyle is diametrically opposed to what they want to run, and stay that way because they either don't want to deal with a confrontation or they're afraid of trying to find another group. That's how you get DM burn out, folks.
I once had to remove a player because it was found out that he had been contacting another players wife and making "overtures" to her behind the husbands back. That was kinda hard tbh, especially since those two players had known each other since they were kids. I felt like the guy on the outside (my other two players had also known those two players for decades before i came along), but had the responsibility to take decisive action. :(
Yeah. As DM, your responsibility is to ensure harmony at the game table. The friend group may explode, but the gaming group must survive!
@@AuntLoopy123 no, it's not the DM's responsibility. The DM is not a babysitter. It's everyone's responsibility.
I was in an online group. We had 2 quiet players. One of the quiet players happened to share a skill with me which we both had expertise. Mind you while she was the rogue, and I was a warlock, I had been vocal during character creation with the group about my intentions to have this skill, and I had no idea she was making a character with the same skill. The way the game ran (very mechanically Video game like) usually only the person with the highest odds of success will ever get to roll. The other player almost never did anything unless directly engaged, but I was always very engaged with the game and responsive/ interactive with the environment. Weeks into the game I got a message from the DM that other players said I was stepping on her toes as the party rogue, and asked if I could give her the spotlight. Mind you as a warlock in a skill heavy game If I did this I would basically never be rolling checks as the wizard, rogue, and bard, dwarfed all my other skill checks. I complied with the request yet her inaction persisted. The same players many times went on to play the game in such away that really restricted game play. It was a weird experience being on the receiving end of the DM talk for reasons similar to not vibbing with play style.
"Axed by unpopular demand"... what a great term to call it
My last, toxic psychic vampire player, did most of the things mentioned, ending out in a TPK. I said that I needed time to prep a new game for them and we took a break passing the summer. Besides playing with "Toxic Tod", we also played with his lovely wife, in their house. He was cheating on his wife. I and another of the other players knew. But did not intervene, we just wanted to play the game..
But he ended up so paranoid that he texted one of the other players in a so hard way, that that was enough for me to say stop. Before I could contact him, he had left our chat and deleted the other player from all social media. We could easily find a new place to play but we have the problem, that we loved playing with his wife. ATM we are on the summer break, but I will soon contact the wife to ask if she wants/"are allowed" to join us for a new game.
Sounds like that poor, put upon woman NEEDS a divorce. If you have to ask if she's allowed to play, I worry for her.
I'd recommend 1) Finding a new play place, and 2) offering the wonderful woman your full support as she separates from an abusive relationship. She may be able to play with you, or maybe she'll move, but at least she'll be free of the abuse.
Good luck! For your sake, your friend's sake, and her sake. And even for the abuser's sake, because he'll never learn better if he doesn't face some serious consequences.
She's probably ready to step out on him anyway
I am so glad I never had to kick someone from my table.
Once had a guy in a group who was not a bad player (he did RP well and was good to have on the team and listened to the DM), BUT he invited his crush to play in the middle of a campaign, knowing full well her ex was in the group. The real kicker- he wanted other people to let her use their characters. She ended up sad because she thought we all hated her, but we all just didn’t know what to do to entertain her because we couldn’t add a character in at this time, didn’t want her taking over our characters for a whole game, and of course, her ex. All in all it was a bad environment, as that guy did several stunts like this. It was rough
I think in my group I am problem player #7. In my current group no one else wants to talk in character... When I finally was having an in character discussion with the DM the other players began interrupting me and saying no we don't say that. I lost it and got angry. They just want to fight battles... Every interaction they have uses second or third person.... The characters haven't even talked to each other to exchange back stories or motives... I am getting to the conclusion I need to leave.
The 14 down votes all got kicked from their groups for being "that player".
What downvotes? Those aren't visible.
@@AvangionQ there were still downvotes when that post was orginally written over 7 months ago 😉
This happened to me a couple of years ago. I realised while role playing that not only did the other players but also the DM (who was experienced at running games) did not know the rules for 5th edition d&d. Some hadn't even read the PHB. They also didn't know what most of their player characters abilities were or how they worked, nor even had any kind of background story.
It was so frustrating as I was just trying to role play, and having to break character to try and explain my actions or PC background all the time, and how I wasn't breaking any rules or metagaming in any way. It became obvious that they considered me that annoying player. It came to a head after yet another railroading tactic of the DM who thought he had my druid trapped whilst mostly buried in dirt. I raised my hand to cast a spell and he said no, you need two free hands to cast spells. I replied but that's not what's it says in the PHB, I'm just playing to how it's written. You haven't said anything before. (Given up to the point he's allowed the paladin to cast spells with a sword and shield in their hands and the bard with a dagger in both hands without the use of a feat) I knew he'd made it up again so the encounter could go as he wanted and try to kill my PC again.
Suddenly we were taking a break and I realised it was just an excuse to start over without me.
Having now read some of the Wotc adventures that he DM'd, I now know how many times he screwed us over and metagamed just so he could deny us magic items and kill our characters.
It makes me sad that none of them contact me anymore but I don't think I could go back to playing at such a toxic gaming table.
Save the Rogue! Save the Rogue! Save the Rogue!
We who love to "stabby, stabby" stand by our man.
Brett's wife
Hello Brett's wife. Your petition has been recorded. It will be placed before the relevant authorities for consideration.:-)
@@theDMLair Add my name to the petition, please. I love the Rogue.
I had a close college friend play in my Campaign. Outside of D&D our dynamic was argumentative and we enjoyed debating.
Problem is that you can't have that sort of dynamic with your players as a DM. But because of that long friendship, I brushed aside a lot of early red flags.
Ultimately she was unable to trust my judgement, she started arguments in the middle of sessions, and developed a nasty case of "Player vs DM" paranoia. She was convinced I was trying to screw her over. She even demanded that because her character had a high intelligence that it was the DMs responsibility to protect her from making bad decisions.
Example:
During a massive Level 19 battle, she polymorphed an Undead Purple Worm and Teleportation Circled it to a small, river town. While strategically speaking that was a cool move, it did paint her character as apathetic and cold-hearted towards the well being of others. After the combat and session, I said: "That will kill a lot of NPCs there." ... that's roughly when she demanded I retcon, not her actions, but the consequences of teleporting a CR20+ monster into a small fishing town.
Throughout my campaign she made decisions that were more callous than some of my villains. To a point in which I had to mediate a meta-conversation between her and another player that wanted to kill her character for being evil. lol.
She wasn't a type of player that liked roleplaying with the consequences of her actions (or even with the failure of rolls). To her this aspect of the game was supposed to be won in an argument with the DM. She constantly rejected/insulted/belittled my 'final decision' and attempted to continue to argue until she got her way.
In the end, I realized that I wasn't looking forward to preparing and running session. The joy I got out of DM-ing was missing.
Soon as I made the hard decision to kick her and follow through with it, I felt a 1000 times lighter.
We aren't speaking anymore. :/ I lost a decade long friendship because of this.
The lesson I learned: Be super picky about who you invite into your games. D&D requires a massive amount of trust, healthy communication and mutual respect with everybody at the table.
This video is on point, especially with the playstyle differences. We were once playing a random D&D game in which everyone wanted to play an intrigue/exploration game and made toned down, fantasy characters and this one guy make an anime celestial priestess walking around in underwear and booping people's noses. He even saw everyone using the Forge to make minis and tokens, but showed up with some anime half-naked megaboob fap pillow saying "he couldn't find another picture on the internet with heterochromia and he really likes the idea of heterochromia."
Needless to say the game didn't last long, the GM should really have just kicked the guy. Instead he kept coming up with reasons why he couldn't GM the game this evening, and we dropped the game.
Whether the GM did that because of the anime guy, or the other players not playing along with the anime guy is unknown, maybe he was a weeb too - hard to say with a random group of strangers from the internet.
P.S.: Luke, you are not a heartless jerk.
And he doesn't suck!
He is a Gallbladderless Jerk.
@@InquisitorThomas Oh?
I had mine removed about a decade ago when it got infected.
It boggles my mind how the human body has parts it can get along without, with some limitations, like the gall bladder, appendix, tonsils, and adenoids.
I feel like the intro was a well deserved potshot at WotC.
Great guide, have been there on a couple situations. I know how hard it can be but being direct and honest is always better.
One example: this guy cheated on his girlfriend and she forgave him but became over jealous of him and demanded to be part of the game. The DM (in his defense, not wishing the campaign would end) said yes and this girl came along. Problem started when the boyfriend didn't even teach her the basics so 1st game she showed up not even remotely ready. If only there was only that... she would constantly talk out of character, joke and ramble about random stuff, did not listen, basically, a pain in the a**. Some sessions later the group just stopped playing because no one wanted to be around her anymore. We came back together after a 6 months gap w/o both.
Much better now... should've done much sooner
Oh how I wish it was this easy... I'm in my mid-30s and my regular game group is not so easy to change now and it's easy to justify kicking every one of them.
I have two players who miss about 1 in 4 games due to work placing them on an inconvenient shifts, that can't be helped. I have one player with severe bipolar disorder who while a great player will often have times when they not only can't play but can't socialise for a few weeks at a time. I have another player who had a bleed on the brain, who is often too ill to play, and since his injury sometimes forgets things or gets confused mid-game. Our entire player party is spread out, with some driving almost an hour to get to the game. And finally I have a chronic pain and chronic fatigue disorder which means some weeks I'm simply unable to play, I'm also limited in mobility so the game has to happen at my house as I can't travel...
As you can see. My game group is hardly a normal D&D group. It's honestly a small miracle we have a game run at all.
This came at the perfect time thank you everything you've done for the community, and for my table
😢 The poor rogue. I will miss his high pitched dulcet tones.
This is very good advice. In my past I was way too nice to people that should have been kicked out. In every case the entire group broke up and went to separate ways and then I formed a new group. One thing to watch out for is that orphan player who seems to be the most incredible person ever. There is a reason they don't have a group...
Always meet the New perspective players and a neutral ground and not at your house so you can get a feel for them beforehand.
This is a hard one. I too have been DM'ing from the beginning (1979). Some of my "problem players" became solid, reliable, great RPG'ers with patience and hard work. Because D&D has always attracted the outer fringe, there is always going to be the chance for friction among the group. I would caution tossing a member without spending time working with them first. The best possible situation is that they decide to leave rather than you removing them. Always remember that we are dealing with peoples egos and emotions - not something to be trifled with. Tread carefully.
Biggist problem I have:
Everyone complains about the problem player.
I remove the player from the game.
Everyone acts like I just kicked a puppy into a wood chipper.
That's too bad, I'd buy you a gift for removing the problem player!
@@Craydlin Thank you 😍
Had a player full on rage quit bc the ability check I aksed him to roll wasnt the one he wanted to roll. The really messed up part was he MADE THE ROLL!!!! Toxic 100%
The four people who disliked are That Guys.
Actually, I'm not 'that guy'. I'm a long time fan, subscriber and kickstarter backer who doesn't understand why these intros have gotten so unpleasant. I unsubscribed after two of the early videos' intros started with snide contemptuous skits but my feed keeps bringing these back to me and sometimes I succumb to the temptation because I've been a fan for so long.
@@michaelmclawhorn6911 Just fast forward through the intro then if you enjoy the video but not the intro
I had a player who pushed me to the point as a DM that I blew up.
They were always on their phone and had no clue what was going on.
Not wanting to do anything that "Taxed them mentally," which meant puzzles or the like.
Wanted unreasonable things for their character...
"I want to my character to be drunk all the time," which was amusing, they did stupid things. "But because i'm drunk, I don't want to take as much damage and I want to be harder to hit. Like in this drunken master movie I watched."
It was one of those moments in combat, where we got to that player and they said..
"Oh, what's going on?" I blew up. "If i'm so boring that you can't pay attention, you need to be running the game, and i'll happily play!"
Might not have been the greatest reaction, but they were gone from my group two sessions later and the group continued for another year. (Then covid hit and ended that game.)
Always on the phone I would’ve insta kicked em
TLDR after seeing how long my post got; Due to reason 7 of game styles not meshing I walked away from a group and I don't regret it because of all the stress it was causing combined with no longer having fun. Also knowing when to leave a group yourself could be a legit topic.
Actually when watching this video one thing that clicked with me is tip number 7, when a player's playstyle isn't compatible with everyone else's. I ended up walking away from a group I simply no longer had fun playing with and I believe that was one of the major root issues though what also fed into it was how extra some of the players could be about it. I tend to enjoy combat the most with RPGs and building what I think are interesting characters while most of this group I would say their focus on roleplaying and they could get pretty hardcore into it. This by itself isn't necessarily a bad thing but there were multiple instances where they would jump down my throat about anything they perceived to be metagaming a little bit even if I thought there was a logical in game and in character reaction and I never really felt like I was given a fair chance to explain myself, which I don't think I should have to be doing in the first place. Also were a few times where a few times where I attempted to roleplay over to be told to shut up in character by the other players since we often interacted with a faction that considered my character a heretic due to my character class (worth noting said faction did treat me equal to the party members even if said faction grumbled about it a little since they did acknowledge his abilities). When you are trying to break out of your shell and trying to roleplay in an attempt to participate being told to shut up even in an in character context is simply not fun. There were a few other things I won't get into that just added on top of all that and it eventually got to the point where as a player I was not having fun anymore and even dreading showing up to games and that is something quite frankly no one should be feeling in regards to a game. I gave a reason to leave the group since I didn't want to burn bridges and have had fun with everyone in the group in the past which just made everything more perplexing but I do admit I could have handled it better and been more honest but I am glad I left them for the sake of my sanity.
This actually got me thinking and perhaps making a video about the reverse and knowing when to leave a gaming group could be a legit topic.
- sees the rogue get taken out -
Hey! None of that! Rouge Lives Matter!
- looks confused -
What do you mean I misspelled it?!? The color of the cloud was obviously pink!
Player recruiting is really important. I most often plays with friends.
And I don't have good experience with looking for group style forums. Not with the persons coming in, but with player dynamic and inter personal drama.
So in my opinion a person at the table should know at least one other player.
Question about #3: What if the other players like playing with that one player, that sucks energy out of DM? Wouldn't disbanding the group be better, so they can all together find a DM compatible with them?
Yeah, sometimes a DM definitely has to say goodbye to an entire group. Even if that upsets otherwise good players.
you had some great insight and perspective on helping with improve the table as a whole on here.
keep up the Great thoughts and ideas.
Ok, so I think my first comment ever on your channel was me bashing your skits but lord Bahimet almighty you’ve won me over with them all and I’m throughly entertained and enjoy them and all your high pitched cheesy voices 😁
i can't tell if you're talking about Bahamut or Baphomet
Thanks for making this video. I had to remove a player from the group some time ago and I looked for advice on how to do it. This video is what I would have wished I I watched back then. It is a clear and thorough thing.
The player in question hit 6 or 7 of the 8 warning signs (depending on whether you consider his playstyle distinct from his personality, since he didn't roleplay). He argued over rules, he was offended when I added harmless flavor to a nat 1, he didn't contribute to the story positively, played like he was in a single-player game, and he would spend a full session arguing with someone over a plan of action.
Asking him not to come to future sessions was a long time coming. When I consulted the other players, they brought up many of the same points, but were hesitant to talk about them. The next session was a lot more fun for everyone.
Hey Luke, I have to say, not only are your video’s entertaining, and informative, but you are giving some very good life advice. Good on you.
I've got a player that wants to play with his stepdaughters baby while we are gaming. He sets the baby on the table during the game and let's the baby play with the dice and figures. Next this happens I'm just going to stop the game as long as the baby is on the table.
Great advice across the board, much of this also works from Players perspectives about DM’s too
Thanks Luke! All of us can use reminders of who we want in our groups. Thanks for all your great content.
Amen, man! Wish there were more people like us speaking out!
Nice dig at Wizards of the Coast in the skit, LOL.
What do you mean? There was no naming of names.
Thank you for this informative and well thought out video!
This was very helpful to me. Thanks so much for the great content.
You're very welcome!
I ended up losing my entire game to a very manipulative player who I knew I would regret letting in.
They were fine enough for the first several levels, but then their desire to get their way became more and more problematic.
I knew if I just threw them out that I might not be able to keep control of the game because of how much they made themselves the face of the PC's. But at the same time, continuing the game with their behavior (everything from yelling and even hitting me as "part of the scene" was impossible.
The other players seemed to just not have an issue with it - not enough to say anything about it. So I just left. They ended up DMing their own campaign with my players.
Lesson learned: trust your instincts and don't let that toxic person in, even if that initial conversation is a little uncomfortable. The alternative could be a lot worse.
Now i need the reverse, something like "when to leave a group" or "how to spot a bad DM" or smth
Thank you for tackling a prickly subject that is SO important. I'm watching a west marches game irl burn to the ground because of 1 player. The game has gone from about 15 players to like 6.
I have been forced to remove at least one player from every game I have run for various reasons, it DOES suck. Even when you do it for the right reasons at the right time, but it does have to be done from time to time.
Oh and here is a downside not mentioned, depending on group dynamics, removing a problem player can split the group resulting in a disbanded group regardless of if you removed said player for the right reasons (yeah, I've been there). But removing that player was still the right decision.
Yup, if for whatever reason a group doesn't want to get rid of a problem player. You as the DM might just have to remove yourself from the equation.
Yes, sometimes the problem player has a non-problem player spouse or family member, or sometimes - especially if it's a charismatic narcissist dominating every aspect of play - one or two sycophants who leave with the problem player if kicked out.
It can split a group in two and get ugly if there is a player who mostly likes both.
While I have been having small issues, nothing thrown out wothy. this video does serve solid advice and i will refer to it when the time comes. thanks for the advice Luke ^_^
@1:09 “…I mean, what kind of company has a business model where they let the loud mouths on Twitter tell them what to do.”
Poignant as always Luke.
We just continued our campaign after a 10 week hiatus (UGH THE WORST). During that time off, we got rid of a toxic player, and I can't tell you how wonderful it was to not have that energy around anymore.
Impressed. I think you are the first creator to tackle this topic
Luke isn't a heartless jerk. Let the algorithm know!
I really needed this I recently removed a player from our game and I was feeling a little bad about it and then I watched this video and almost every point fit him thank you for making this :)
I followed your advice to the letter last week and asked a long time player (2yrs) to leave our group. It went surprisingly well and we parted on good terms. It looks like we'll remain friends and might even play together again someday if the right circumstances obtain. Thank you for sharing the best possible advice to resolve the worst part of the hobby!
Awww, I actually really liked the rouge ☹
Well you know what they say about Rogues and their sleazy cheating ways don't you?😉
I've only ever removed one player from my group ... for not showering before coming ... stunk up the room, all the other players decided immediately.
And sometimes, a player forces your hand. After a session on Roll20, a player of mine went on a long 50+ post rant on my Discord about what a crap DM I was being because- shocker- the module I had warned him was hard was actually HARD. Then, after slagging me, he demanded I kick another player from the game for merely pointing out that the problem(s) he was experiencing were his own fault due to the choices he, himself, had made. Another player was so turned off by him, she was about to leave, so I told him we were done, and kicked him from the server. He then contacted me on Roll20 to say he had submitted an RPG horror story about me to some forum. I was like "That's nice." and blocked him on Roll20 as well. Almost too late, but the group is going much better now, and the game is still ongoing. Fare the well, RandalFaux (Character name, not player name), or maybe not.
Such a good video. Wish I had seen it before my 1st campaign which feel apart due to me not handling “that guy” soon enough.
I left a game that my nephew DM'd because some of the other players annoyed me (ie: consistently late to game, not paying attention during the session, spamming GIFs in chat instead of playing the game, etc). I informed my nephew that I was leaving the game because these players are my nephew's and I wasn't going to make my nephew kick his friends from the game, so I can enjoy the game.
"What kind of company has a business model that let's loudmouth idiots on Twitter tell them what to do?"
Man, there was so much shade thrown there day just turned into night.
Great video. It can also be a great tool for self reflection. I make an effort at any game I play in to add to the game not take away.
As a DM, confronting players about their problematic, and oftentimes inappropriate, behavior can be difficult. Especially if the problem player is a friend or family member. The one thing us DMs have to remember is that, as DMs, it’s our job to think about what’s best for our game and our players, deal with problem players, and remove them from our game if there is no other way (sometimes it’s the ONLY way). I’ve had to deal with problem players before, and yes, some of them gave me no other option but to remove them from the game. I don’t like removing players from my game, but sometimes it’s the only option I have because talking to them and giving them warnings isn’t working.
I'm a new DM and I managed to form a group with 4 people, I'm still in the process of making the adventure but while I'm working on it I asked my players to do their character sheets, some of them are done but I need their backstories. The problem is that I have this friend that was relunctant but agreed to join in the end, so after we finished the technical parts of the character sheet (stats, spells, equipment) I asked the player, some days later, to write their backstory and I don't know what the hell happened with his mood but straight up told me "no", I was like "fine, whatever" and carried on, the next day I warned him by telling him if he's not writing the backstory then I would have to kick him out of the group and he proceeds to write the most half-assed, lazy and basic piece of text I've ever read in my life. I'm having to put up with this person and I didn't even start session 1 and already considering kicking him out for that attitude.
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
I'm not a DM, though considering wetting my toes there. But one player we had in one of my campaigns that I'm in, we just had major issues with.
Running 2 at the time, Strahd and a Homebrew. In Strahd, she played a Bard that never participated in combat and was always trying to BEFRIEND THE CHAOTIC EVIL MONSTERS. Eventually, her character walked off with Strahd and she created another character that was pretty much the same. Just to throw it out there, this person threw out Bardic Inspiration only. And only live 4 times in 8 sessions.
In the other campaign...We had to do everything she wanted in-game. Go after her character's daughter? Yup, we'd better. Save her husband? Damn right we'd best (I mean, he was another player, but he was cool with it being a little slower than she was.) We ended up in Avernus, looking for her daughter. We're told at city gates that slavery is accepted and we decide not to go anywhere alone. She doesn't like my character because he's a brutish, chatty Barbarian in a relationship when her husband was lost (Player couldn't handle the character anymore and was put in a darker place because of the mind-set). She runs off. Becomes enslaved. My character buys her contract (Only one with enough gold) and she's upset she now has to do everything he says (I never took advantage of that). Eventually, I decide to try and sort things out. While she had issues with her actions having consequences, she wasn't enjoying it because of what she called "problem players" (me, only, in her mind, nobody else has an issue.) Her only solution? I change how I play in my entirety and she can go on being the whiny, complaining, non-contributing party member. DM kicked her that day.
I'm watching this video essentially to check myself and I'm really happy so far to learn that I'm not a problem at the table.
I always say DMing sometimes resembles what you would do as a manger. If you have some management experience then doing some of these things will probably be a lot easier than what you think.
This is how I went from having 4 players to playing a one-on-one campaign - one player moved, but the other two are a couple and kept arguing during sessions, and as we played at their house, my other friend and I just stopped bringing up D&D and started playing just the two of us at my house. Yeah, we never had any kind of conversation about the behavior, but it's been so much better since.
These are all good suggestions for leaving a group as a player too lol. I have been having trouble bowing out of a few games for awhile now. Going make a direct statement on discord!
I really like your videos and you cover many topics very well. I was wondering if it would be too hard to make a rewind video. Your game is going well and then a player or the group makes a very poor choice and get into a no-win position then rewind to see what would have been a better choice. Like they needed certain information from the NPC they just killed.
I remember I wanted to just start the game back without my friend, who was killing the game. I didn't want to do it but I knew I absolutely had to, I didn't think this dude would handle it well if I told him directly. The group insisted that I should just tell him flat out, they were like we can do it. I'm like gtfo of here, I'd never let someone who wants to be the one to tell my good friend to leave be the one to do it, he was my friend.
So we all decided I would directly tell him. I knew it wouldn't end well, but I did it because I had to. I told him we were going to go on without him, and that we all decided, I didn't throw the other players under the bus. I said, hey if you want me to tell you why I'll tell you why. He didn't want to know.
I didn't see him for a few days online, then he was like it'd be too ackward to hang out. So we then only had contact with each other in Xbox live parties when it was in a group. 2 weeks later, he went into a deep depression and broke contact with everyone, and decided to interact with absolutely no one, and I don't know what happened to him after that.
I would still have ejected him because I had to, but I'm always haunted by my approach and wander if I could have done it better.
Now, I know there is no way to have known I needed this video months back, but this would have been very useful to me a while back, lol. Had a player who would rules lawyer and question, like, so many of my calls because the spell doesn't say that x, y or z happen, but I digress. The game after he decided to leave because of the fighting, (I was trying to peacemaker and not lose anybody) was outstanding. I noticed a major shift in the game's atmosphere.
We have a player who is always on their phone, unless it is THEIR turn in combat. They have also slept during the game on numerous occasions. They are still in our group.
It's one of those things a good DM just has to learn how to do, as with learning the rules of the game, or how to engage the players, how to make a memorable experience and help yourself and the players have a good time. It's a 'skill'. Not a fun skill to have to have, but it is a skill in tactfully but very firmly being able to tell a player they are no longer welcome at your table.
It also isn't always easy. I ejected a player from a group once because he was being an absolute tool and this was the last straw. We'd had discussions, I'd given him advice, I'd warned him, and yet there he was up to his old tricks. We didn't even get out of character creation before I told him to leave as he was DEMANDING to be allowed to do x, y, and z with a character class and race I had already expressly forbid.
He wouldn't leave. He sat there like an evil toad with his arms crossed over his chest, face red as a tomato shouting, "NO!" every time I told him to leave. Twenty-three-year-old man acting like a toddler. I told him if he didn't leave on the instant he would be trespassing and I'd just call the police.
Yeah... I really did have to.