@@The_Legend715 Agreed here. Most people just do 3 sets of leg curls or 3 sets of RDLs and think that 3 sets of direct hamstring work will give just enough hypertrophy there simply because hamstrings are used to a minuscule extent during some other leg exercises. Doesn’t really work that way. It’s like hoping that your calves will grow well because you run for 5 mins on the treadmill before training and do 3 sets of calves once a week with 2 RIR.
@@michaelhofmann6443 Hi Michael, it's been a week since I watched this video but off the top of my head it didn't distinguish between tendinopathies and muscle strains, didn't even talk about 'the' triceps pain that occurs from weight training, and he didn't even point to the right part that causes elbow pain (he pointed to something completely different). Also, he didn't give a solution as specified in the title and the video. There's many other points too. I've got a video coming out soon debunking more of his nonsense. He's also a druggy or ex-druggy bodybuilder. Stop following morons on the Internet is my best advice to you, although that's easier said than done these days.
@@michaelhofmann6443 in my expertise it is most of times better to take a break or do less when you have elbow pain. Doing more reps is the biggest BS and going to faillure is evenso a load of bs. I stopped watching during part 2 ... thats also bs just like point 1... Henselmans is an idiot most of the times. With pain, most times because overloading, go see the doctor, do not start doing more.
Shout out to the editor for always waiting for Menno to manually turn off the camera before queueing the outro, for some reason I find it funny as hell 🤣
Anecdotally, what worked for me was using a very lightweight dumbbell (5lbs), grabbing one end, and rotating my wrist left and right. I eventually got strong enough to where I used an adjustable heavy club (Adex), grasped the club right near where the heavy end meets the handle, and did the same exercise. I did this daily for a few months and my pain in my elbow went away on tricep and chest exercises.
Yep, most people have issues with their elbow not realizing it’s actually a wrist and grip strength issue. People need to strengthen their grip along with wrist rotation strengthening
Great video! A few months ago when I did bench press I started experiencing elbow pain at weights above 90kg. I did a lot of research on how to fix it. It got solved by doing my accessory tri/shoulder lifts as warm up exercises with high rep and low weight before benching PLUS changing my wrist angle during bench press so the knuckles point up towards the sealing instead of pointing back towards the spotter position.
Great advice as always ! A series focussing on common issues would be outstanding - working around shoulder pain/impingement, training legs with crumbly knees and so on
@BozskaCastica yeah same here, and the feeling sucks when you can't get a solid bicep routine. For a while, I was doing pinwheel curls, and I managed to get pretty good results but came across the Hoist cable curl machine, and it's amazing! I've been training a little under twenty years, so some wear and tear is bound to happen but hasn't stopped me.
Really good expert advice. As a near 50 man I also found moving to exercises with cables etc over DB both reduce risk from twisting and jerking weights, as well as puts a stable pressure that enables full range of motion more easily.
Another tip for skull crushers, is to do cable push downs first, get an insane pump from it so there’s loads of blood in there and the joint has more fluid in it. Then do your sets from there, should take away all pain
I'm currently going through terrible elbow, forearm and wrist issues now bc of overuse and going too heavy for too long without ever backing off for a week or two to let myself recover and heal. This video was quite timely and helpful! Took a month off and have come back using lighter weight and higher reps and changed up a couple things with my form. There's still some irritation but I can tell things are much better than before.
@@menno.henselmans What about elbow pain from pull motions and biceps training? 6 months and no resolution yet. Including trying RP take a month off. Still sever pain
Wow this is a crazy coincidence. I literally told someone exactly these points you made today. He was complaining about pain in his lower back and he was telling me that he was supposed to do lower reps with heavier weight because it was more safe. And I told him that was the complete opposite to do especially with his terrible technique and clear instabilities. Luckily he actually listened to me though and changed his approach. This was for his squat fyi but the ideas still apply. So he lowered the weight, controlled the tempo and I also gave him a way to fix his instabilities. Also on this topic then probably even bigger coincidence is that I also have elbow pain atm. I had gotten rid of it but it came back after I picked up my dips again. Before this I had been doing cable tricep extensions and that seemed to have fixed it. But the dips brought it back so I guess I hadn't completely fixed it yet.
Pain on elbow extension has always been my most frequent limiting factor, so this is very relevant for my own training. Agree with all your points, though I will say I'm one of those mutants that never had issues with flat bench (of any grip width) and in fact, close grip bench press became my go-to tricep exercise when many others were giving elbow pain (totally agree on skull crushers being elbow crushers LOL).
Other exercises I’ve found are good: Tricep dip machine-move the seat down and focus on elbow extension. I’m not super tall so I can actually get crazy rom and a good tension in the lengthened position while being able to use super little weight. I prefer these to pushdowns as you can actually get past where your head would normally stop the cable. Basically a machine JM press when you do it like this Floor elbow extensions-Basically a push up bit you start with your forearms parallel with the floor. Saw this from a gymnast TH-camr one time. Similar to a dumbbell kickback, but a bit more rom. It’s still missing that stretched ROM but is better than the kickback in my opinion. You can scale it forward or backward same way you would a push up
This is very helpful. I started adding in direct forearm training, which has helped a ton. But I still want to train my triceps effectively and will keep the tips here in mind. 🙏
Boom, I knew you would say lighter loads. I've been doing this and can confirm, at 43 years of age, I have less joint issues than I had in my late 20s.
I find that if I take a break from lifting (about a week), when I come back my left elbow hurts pretty bad on push days, but the very next session it doesn’t hurt at all. The only way I’ve found to mitigate the pain on those first days is to somewhat relax my grip on the bar or dumbbells and concentrate on slow eccentrics. Edit: same thing with dumbbell skullcrushers, if I relax my grip and let the dumbbell rest on the pad of my hand on the way down, it helps a lot.
Such great advice! I have always suffered from elbow pain during tricep work and from trying different things, I have actually naturally been doing most of this over the past year. I was concerned it wouldn't be as good of a stimulus for my triceps (even though I feel it just as well) but figured avoiding pain was more important. Great video as always!
Nice video on the topic. I would also add something, I find isometric contractions to be great for tendons and tendonitis, especially yelding isometrics for long time under tension, very useful. One more thing I prefer light band over light weights as in the stretched position tend to be more gentle on the joint
I did weighted chin ups adding weights every single week until I hit 50lbs and that’s where i started developing pain around the forearm and elbow. It’s been a month dealing with the pain. :(
Might want to back off on the frequency, and or use other similar exercises with a different grip for a meso-cycle or two. It’s better than the other option: exacerbating your elbow and forearm pain
Thanks so much for this. I'm dealing with elbow and knee pain at the moment. I'm gonna have to employ these techniques because everything I've done so far hasn't worked. If you happen to be able to do this for knee pain, that would be so awesome. Thanks again for this!
I just stopped doing skull crushers because of slight pain in my elbow. Got up to 45kg (100lbs) for 12 reps so I'm not surprised. The pain is very weak but I'm still not risking it.
Agree on the "elbowcrushers". A movement I rly love is cable pushdowns facing away back against the functional trainers pulley brace. Set up the pulley just above your head and get the easy curl attachment or rope and pushdown on a 45° angle. Cock your elbows straight at the end for a little more stimulus on the lateral head. This movement never hurts me. Only thing i stay away from is skull crushers and 1 arm cable pushdowns with the handle because it gets shakey and unstable.
My solution is to do a heavy tricep compound first and then v bar pushdowns for high reps. Doing any kind of overhead work after these two feels amazing with 0 elbow pain
Many thanks. Great video and content. With elbow tendinopathy you shouldn’t do high reps light weight, though, but rather high weight, slow few reps. Not all types of elbow pain can be equally treated …
I had really bad problems with my elbow and the connecting triceps tendon - it was near impossible for me to do any triceps/compound push exercise without aggravating it. I could aggravate it just by swinging a racquetball racket for a few minutes. I ended up figuring out that there was one free-motion overhead triceps extension machine in my gym that I could use which would still be very uncomfortable, but wouldn't aggravate it in the same way as most other stuff. Then I figured out where that effective failure point was (where the strain would be recoverable in a few days rather than potentially weeks), and essentially progressively overloaded that with high reps (usually 20ish) to the point that it wasn't the limiting factor anymore. I can do most normal push movements without injuring myself now.
Very educational ! My elbows and knees hurt usualy 8-12-24 hours after workout . Rengen picture said that they are depleted . I never train below 8 reps ( isolation below 12 ) and always with safe exercise , feeling and 1-2 sec negative .... What to say : Bad genetics
One technique that helped my elbows a lot was incorporating some slamball squeezing. You hold the ball out in front of you (arms bent) and you squeeze. Bring the ball closer or further away from your body till you find the point where you experience about 3/10 on the pain scale. Hold that position for 30 seconds. Rest and repeat ≈5 or so times. If you do this every other other day or every 3 days you should notice over time the positions that hurt are getting less and less (and eventually go away).
For me, I got really strong on tricep pushdowns as I was training with my best friend again (huge social gains). Now I'm in my third month of recovering my elbows as I got too strong too fast on the tricep pushdown. Recently switched to rope 'push'downs, way less elbow discomfort, and with kickbacks and OH tricep extensions, ZERO elbow discomfort. There's always a way.
Both my elbows are killing me, although they don't bother me in pressing exercises, but anything overhead, like triceps extensions or even rope, they hurt like hell. Let's see if this helps. Although I'd wager some of these issues might also be associate with my poor shoulder mobility. Anyway, thanks for the content!
it makes sense for larger muscles to have heavier weight exercises/lower rep ranges to reach muscle failure before cardiovascular failure. While smaller muscles need less weight and higher reps so that your joints and connective tissue are stressed as little as necessary. Smaller muscles need less volume per workout, more weekly frequency, since smaller muscles recover faster, while larger muscles can handle many more sets per workout at lower rep ranges and take longer to recover.
Can you do something similar regarding shoulder pain when training delts? Particularly tips on recovering from rotator cuff injuries would be appreciated.
This sounds more like ‘how to avoid elbow pain’ rather than how to fix it. If you want to fix it, strengthening your connective tissues is a good place to start. Try incorporating some JM Press in your training and some tricep cable push downs where you go well above parallel on the eccentric. Hope it helps 👍
In terms of grip and forearm flexor strength it was only when I started doing behind the back wrist curls that I improved the instability I developed from golfer's elbow. I can't credit it entirely, because it took almost 18 months for the golfer's elbow to subside and I've done a few other things as well, like twist gripping and pulldowns allowing a light stretch. Ik ga zeker de hoge reps met minder gewicht uitproberen. De redenering dat zoiets als een tricepsextensie geen krachtoefening hoeft te zijn, is eigenlijk heel logisch.
I have found that certain back exercises worsen my pain and aggravate it more than triceps, I'm just more aware of the pain when doing triceps isolation. I'm talking about golfer's elbow (medial epicondylitis). I modified my back movements, like switching weighted pullups to lat pulls, and that seemed to help a LOT. I'm now easing back into some heavier back movements, but have modified them to take stress off the forearm muscles. I always used straps, but I've gotten some pullup handles to put on a straight bar that are more accommodating than the rubberized pullup stations at my gym. I have also found high rep forearm training a few times a week to be beneficial in rehabbing the elbows. Plus, I have gotten notable forearm growth. Win-win. Rarely, I've gotten actual pain in my triceps tendon, but that usually seems to be a load management issue and temporary for me, but a chronic nagging issue like I've had from the forearm tendons.
Great video. My absolute favorit triceps movement skullcrusher w. dumb bells got me a severe elbow pain last year when reaching 20 kg pr. arm. A pain that destroyed all my workout and daily tasks. Now i don't do skull crushers, furthermore I work my forearm(i never did that) and my pain is completely gone. And yes, singlearm triceps rope pushdowns with little weight gives an awesome pump and my arms love it. Thanks for the insight Menno.
I think the 70 % of 1 RM treshold to cause adaptations in the tendons argument is usually applied the other way; you should go lower in reps to make sure that you make your tendons stronger. I would think this should especially be important for training the achilles tendon for runners and the patellar tendon for basketball players. For instance S & C coach Jake Tuura seems to train his patellar tendons super heavy with high frequency but few sets each time to be able to play basketball. On the other hand going very high in repetitions could be beneficial for "pumping" blod into the tendons. I would guess that the best for tendons would be a mix of doing >= 25 repetions (warm up and cool down) and doing
Long term, you want some heavy lifting in there, indeed, but when you already have pain, heavy lifting is generally a no go. You don't need to stimulate more adaptations. The tissue is already going to remodel on its own if you just let it heal.
Awesome video. I was told once that pain on a level of 2 - 3 /10 is .. sort of OK, but don't go beyond that. Also... Could you do wrist and shoulder pain as well (and maybe knees... yes knees :-)
25 rep sets of rope or band pushdowns seem to help with warming my elbows up. Then I'm good for heavier cable pushdowns with a bar attachment. I avoid bar skull crushers as they hurt my elbow no matter what.
I have exactly this, and is getting better while I'm continuing lifting, what I have been doing is an anti inflammatory diet, or rather saying, a PMSF diet, so only protein and practically nothing else, since fat and carbs inflame the body, also as you say in your video, the slow controlled tempo and with ROM just before I feel pain, and perfect, no pain, I also use those elbow compressors, and with that, now I can lift as heavy as always, but with same slow controlled technique, so is getting better, So from next week I will incorporate again carbs and fats. Best
to 2) in my personal experience as an athlete its better to also train while one has an injury, but really light. for example biceps tendonitis in climbers. its a common injury. often people rest up to six weeks, go back on the wall and immediately injure themselves again. if you still work out really light that doesnt occur.
i was looking for this exact topic...my triceps at left arm had big growth in last 6 months but 3 months since i have been dealing with pain...I tried eating collagen,lowering weight and even taking time off from training...let me try these tips..thankyou
I messed up my elbow ~6 months ago (I think from pushdowns), but I've managed to mostly work around it for all muscle groups EXCEPT my lats... I can't do any sort of pull downs without feeling some pain. Fortunately it's not debilitating, but still sucks
Old school tip for elbow pain PREVENTION: Start your sessions with cable working sets before you go to heavy dips, cgbp, skullcrushes. Don't spend too much time in the lockout (useless for hypertrophy anyway) and emphasize the stretch (good for connective tissue strength also lowers the weight). Don't use grips and angles that are awkward, even if they don't cause pain immediately. Once you've wrecked your elbows and you're above a certain age, there might be no going back. So focus on prevention.
Similar to the bill starr injury recovery method from the 60s? Except he doesn't recommend failure, but 20 reps with light weight. It's a great protocol.
Overhead triceps extensions are more problematic for shoulders than elbows. If the position is off slightly and the weight is sufficient you can easily dislocate shoulders if you are hypermobile. Skullcrushers and pushdown make it much safer on shoulders.
I think the study you cited actually contradicts your first point. It says that loads >=70% are required to create beneficial adaptation of the tendon. The implication being that if you have a pathological tendon, you should aim to do an appropriate amount of heavy loading to allow for adaptation and remodeling of the tendon. You misrepresented that finding and said that loads
Just make sure the tension of the weight/cable is in the SAME DIRECTION as the ELBOW WANTS TO OPEN. If the arm has to twist to open, or curve, DON'T DO IT. Imagine a cable pushdown that ends all the way on your side, but your hands are pronated (like holding a barbell). See how your arm twisted, the tension is trying to bend your elbow sideways? See how your elbow wants to bend into your body (while the tension is in front of your body)? Thats what you want to avoid! Anything that does that, avoid, or do it differently.
Excellent video. To add to this: potentially the JM press. It goes against most points in the video, and it feels like sh#t on the elbows, but that's the whole point of the exercise. It intentionally puts extra pressure and stretch on the elbows, to strenghten them (if used responsibly ofc.). Several armwrestlers and some strongmen with elbow pain use the JM press to increase their connective tissue integrity around the elbows. Maybe too risky/advanced for a general video about injury prevention though...
I find low freqency and higher volume better for my weak joints and tendons. Also do higher reps if any problems. I change exercises as soon as I see it start to become a problem. I to the exercise with high stretch usually at the end part of the workout. Skullscrushers go last.
![Can the body only absorb 20 g protein per meal? [Science]](/img/n.gif)
You should this video but with the knees, and others joints in general
Most things he said about the elbow applies to the knee.
Id add having a good hamstring/quad size & strengthen ratio, weak hamstrings = weak knees.
Agreed!
@@The_Legend715 nope, weak quads mostly means weaker knees,
@@martinnoppert1752 what about pain in my assjoints
@@The_Legend715 Agreed here. Most people just do 3 sets of leg curls or 3 sets of RDLs and think that 3 sets of direct hamstring work will give just enough hypertrophy there simply because hamstrings are used to a minuscule extent during some other leg exercises. Doesn’t really work that way. It’s like hoping that your calves will grow well because you run for 5 mins on the treadmill before training and do 3 sets of calves once a week with 2 RIR.
I've never had any kind of elbow joint issues whatsoever, until I started going into deep stretch positions during training.
This is a no BS, one of the best and super informative content on the internet I’ve come across! Thank you from Australia!
As a rehab expert I can categorically tell you this is all nonsense. Joe.
@@fatlosssos What is exactly nonsense in this video? Genuine question
@@michaelhofmann6443 Hi Michael, it's been a week since I watched this video but off the top of my head it didn't distinguish between tendinopathies and muscle strains, didn't even talk about 'the' triceps pain that occurs from weight training, and he didn't even point to the right part that causes elbow pain (he pointed to something completely different). Also, he didn't give a solution as specified in the title and the video. There's many other points too. I've got a video coming out soon debunking more of his nonsense. He's also a druggy or ex-druggy bodybuilder. Stop following morons on the Internet is my best advice to you, although that's easier said than done these days.
@@michaelhofmann6443 in my expertise it is most of times better to take a break or do less when you have elbow pain. Doing more reps is the biggest BS and going to faillure is evenso a load of bs. I stopped watching during part 2 ... thats also bs just like point 1... Henselmans is an idiot most of the times. With pain, most times because overloading, go see the doctor, do not start doing more.
@@martinnoppert1752if only doctors were more helpful and less expensive.
I'd love a similar video about shoulder pain
Love the cue to use the lowest weight that still effectively trains the target muscle - excellent advice
You're probably the best source of information on the topic of lifting. Thank you.
The first 3 tips apply for every injury. That's the magic of it. Subscribed.
Shout out to the editor for always waiting for Menno to manually turn off the camera before queueing the outro, for some reason I find it funny as hell 🤣
0:35 - just for this, I had to drop a like.
Some Of Us Are Easily Pleased 😅
I'm One Of Them... Literally Huge Elbow Pain, Menno Is The Absolute Best Psychic Advisor On Injury Video Timing.
Anecdotally, what worked for me was using a very lightweight dumbbell (5lbs), grabbing one end, and rotating my wrist left and right. I eventually got strong enough to where I used an adjustable heavy club (Adex), grasped the club right near where the heavy end meets the handle, and did the same exercise. I did this daily for a few months and my pain in my elbow went away on tricep and chest exercises.
Thanks. I have an adex club as well so I will try this
Yep, most people have issues with their elbow not realizing it’s actually a wrist and grip strength issue. People need to strengthen their grip along with wrist rotation strengthening
Mr. Henselmans flexing his polyglotism. 😎
Thanks Menno. Am currently struggling with elbow pain so this is very helpful. 🙏
Great video!
A few months ago when I did bench press I started experiencing elbow pain at weights above 90kg. I did a lot of research on how to fix it. It got solved by doing my accessory tri/shoulder lifts as warm up exercises with high rep and low weight before benching PLUS changing my wrist angle during bench press so the knuckles point up towards the sealing instead of pointing back towards the spotter position.
Great advice as always ! A series focussing on common issues would be outstanding - working around shoulder pain/impingement, training legs with crumbly knees and so on
Amazing tips! I would love to see a similar one for shoulder pain during push exercises, lateral raises, pull-ups etc.
Well, I have elbow pain when doing bicep curl and chest fly. More specifically, golf and tennis tendinitis. Thank you, sir!
I think those are more related to the forearm side of things rather than the triceps.
Look up Tyler twists and reverse Tyler twists for those injuries.
Me too, triceps exercises are no problem for me. Biceps much worse. With barbell no chance. EZ bar is manageable.
@@edw2241 do you have good experience with that?
@BozskaCastica yeah same here, and the feeling sucks when you can't get a solid bicep routine. For a while, I was doing pinwheel curls, and I managed to get pretty good results but came across the Hoist cable curl machine, and it's amazing! I've been training a little under twenty years, so some wear and tear is bound to happen but hasn't stopped me.
Really good expert advice.
As a near 50 man I also found moving to exercises with cables etc over DB both reduce risk from twisting and jerking weights, as well as puts a stable pressure that enables full range of motion more easily.
Thanks a lot. In this video I found all my pain patterns very well explained. Extremely informative. Science and education always rule.
Elbow pain from pressing exercises can also stem from low-bar squatting. I feel it on the bench press when overdoing low bar.
I had to completely avoid skull crushers, due to the elbow pain. Will definitely give skull over a try
Another tip for skull crushers, is to do cable push downs first, get an insane pump from it so there’s loads of blood in there and the joint has more fluid in it.
Then do your sets from there, should take away all pain
Thank you menno
This is actually suuuuper important and specific for me. Thanks Menno
I'm currently going through terrible elbow, forearm and wrist issues now bc of overuse and going too heavy for too long without ever backing off for a week or two to let myself recover and heal. This video was quite timely and helpful! Took a month off and have come back using lighter weight and higher reps and changed up a couple things with my form. There's still some irritation but I can tell things are much better than before.
deload every 4-6 weeks or so ur joints will thank u in the long run
Think I know why my elbow have had high pain, during certain movements, for almost 2 weeks now.
Good video.
This is exactly what I needed right now. I've already been doing some of these, but the rest are for sure getting incorporated into my work outs.
How did you know that I just started experiencing elbow pain two days ago? Perfect timing on this video
Hope it helps!
@@menno.henselmans What about elbow pain from pull motions and biceps training? 6 months and no resolution yet. Including trying RP take a month off. Still sever pain
Wow this is a crazy coincidence. I literally told someone exactly these points you made today. He was complaining about pain in his lower back and he was telling me that he was supposed to do lower reps with heavier weight because it was more safe. And I told him that was the complete opposite to do especially with his terrible technique and clear instabilities. Luckily he actually listened to me though and changed his approach. This was for his squat fyi but the ideas still apply. So he lowered the weight, controlled the tempo and I also gave him a way to fix his instabilities.
Also on this topic then probably even bigger coincidence is that I also have elbow pain atm. I had gotten rid of it but it came back after I picked up my dips again. Before this I had been doing cable tricep extensions and that seemed to have fixed it. But the dips brought it back so I guess I hadn't completely fixed it yet.
I find my lower back can handle 18rep squats rather 10 rep sets
It’s like you created this video for me (and my elbows). 🙏🏻
Pain on elbow extension has always been my most frequent limiting factor, so this is very relevant for my own training. Agree with all your points, though I will say I'm one of those mutants that never had issues with flat bench (of any grip width) and in fact, close grip bench press became my go-to tricep exercise when many others were giving elbow pain (totally agree on skull crushers being elbow crushers LOL).
Much needed vid! Recently higher rep training did help my elbow pain and rehab a biceps tear.
Other exercises I’ve found are good:
Tricep dip machine-move the seat down and focus on elbow extension. I’m not super tall so I can actually get crazy rom and a good tension in the lengthened position while being able to use super little weight. I prefer these to pushdowns as you can actually get past where your head would normally stop the cable. Basically a machine JM press when you do it like this
Floor elbow extensions-Basically a push up bit you start with your forearms parallel with the floor. Saw this from a gymnast TH-camr one time. Similar to a dumbbell kickback, but a bit more rom. It’s still missing that stretched ROM but is better than the kickback in my opinion. You can scale it forward or backward same way you would a push up
This is very helpful. I started adding in direct forearm training, which has helped a ton. But I still want to train my triceps effectively and will keep the tips here in mind. 🙏
Thanks for this Menno, can you do a similar video about the knee?
video came in the right moment. Having elbow pain for like amonth now.
Boom, I knew you would say lighter loads. I've been doing this and can confirm, at 43 years of age, I have less joint issues than I had in my late 20s.
Can you do more videos on this topic? shoulder joint pplz
Fantastic, could you do one for shoulder pain during presses
I find that if I take a break from lifting (about a week), when I come back my left elbow hurts pretty bad on push days, but the very next session it doesn’t hurt at all. The only way I’ve found to mitigate the pain on those first days is to somewhat relax my grip on the bar or dumbbells and concentrate on slow eccentrics.
Edit: same thing with dumbbell skullcrushers, if I relax my grip and let the dumbbell rest on the pad of my hand on the way down, it helps a lot.
Such great advice! I have always suffered from elbow pain during tricep work and from trying different things, I have actually naturally been doing most of this over the past year. I was concerned it wouldn't be as good of a stimulus for my triceps (even though I feel it just as well) but figured avoiding pain was more important.
Great video as always!
Love this advice, especially about higher reps to spare connective tissue for tricep/bicep exercises
Awesome Tips! I dont get pain from pressing but a lot of pulling exercises and most biceps exercises. Will be deploying this tips 💯
Man, love your channel, you definetly have one of the best science based fitness channels on youtube😊
Nice video on the topic. I would also add something, I find isometric contractions to be great for tendons and tendonitis, especially yelding isometrics for long time under tension, very useful. One more thing I prefer light band over light weights as in the stretched position tend to be more gentle on the joint
Great stuff. Please can you do one like this for shoulder pain?
I did weighted chin ups adding weights every single week until I hit 50lbs and that’s where i started developing pain around the forearm and elbow. It’s been a month dealing with the pain. :(
I find the neutral grip is much easier on my elbows than underhand or overhand for pull-ups
Might want to back off on the frequency, and or use other similar exercises with a different grip for a meso-cycle or two. It’s better than the other option: exacerbating your elbow and forearm pain
Thanks so much for this. I'm dealing with elbow and knee pain at the moment. I'm gonna have to employ these techniques because everything I've done so far hasn't worked. If you happen to be able to do this for knee pain, that would be so awesome. Thanks again for this!
I just stopped doing skull crushers because of slight pain in my elbow. Got up to 45kg (100lbs) for 12 reps so I'm not surprised. The pain is very weak but I'm still not risking it.
Agree on the "elbowcrushers".
A movement I rly love is cable pushdowns facing away back against the functional trainers pulley brace.
Set up the pulley just above your head and get the easy curl attachment or rope and pushdown on a 45° angle.
Cock your elbows straight at the end for a little more stimulus on the lateral head. This movement never hurts me.
Only thing i stay away from is skull crushers and 1 arm cable pushdowns with the handle because it gets shakey and unstable.
what helped me was forearm stretches and also some tricep bicep stretching
Great video
Request- make a similar video for shoulders as well.
My solution is to do a heavy tricep compound first and then v bar pushdowns for high reps. Doing any kind of overhead work after these two feels amazing with 0 elbow pain
Have been dealing with this for the past month or so, from reverse curls.
Many thanks. Great video and content. With elbow tendinopathy you shouldn’t do high reps light weight, though, but rather high weight, slow few reps. Not all types of elbow pain can be equally treated …
OMG thank you for this. I've sent years going thru this
I had really bad problems with my elbow and the connecting triceps tendon - it was near impossible for me to do any triceps/compound push exercise without aggravating it. I could aggravate it just by swinging a racquetball racket for a few minutes.
I ended up figuring out that there was one free-motion overhead triceps extension machine in my gym that I could use which would still be very uncomfortable, but wouldn't aggravate it in the same way as most other stuff. Then I figured out where that effective failure point was (where the strain would be recoverable in a few days rather than potentially weeks), and essentially progressively overloaded that with high reps (usually 20ish) to the point that it wasn't the limiting factor anymore. I can do most normal push movements without injuring myself now.
Very educational ! My elbows and knees hurt usualy 8-12-24 hours after workout . Rengen picture said that they are depleted . I never train below 8 reps ( isolation below 12 ) and always with safe exercise , feeling and 1-2 sec negative .... What to say : Bad genetics
Oh fuck yeah, I have this problem recently.
One technique that helped my elbows a lot was incorporating some slamball squeezing. You hold the ball out in front of you (arms bent) and you squeeze. Bring the ball closer or further away from your body till you find the point where you experience about 3/10 on the pain scale.
Hold that position for 30 seconds.
Rest and repeat ≈5 or so times.
If you do this every other other day or every 3 days you should notice over time the positions that hurt are getting less and less (and eventually go away).
What about elbow pain when training Biceps ?
It's usually caused by the same reason that causes elbow pain when doing triceps
Watch your wrist position, and keep your wrists locked during the curl.
For me, I got really strong on tricep pushdowns as I was training with my best friend again (huge social gains). Now I'm in my third month of recovering my elbows as I got too strong too fast on the tricep pushdown. Recently switched to rope 'push'downs, way less elbow discomfort, and with kickbacks and OH tricep extensions, ZERO elbow discomfort. There's always a way.
Both my elbows are killing me, although they don't bother me in pressing exercises, but anything overhead, like triceps extensions or even rope, they hurt like hell. Let's see if this helps. Although I'd wager some of these issues might also be associate with my poor shoulder mobility. Anyway, thanks for the content!
it makes sense for larger muscles to have heavier weight exercises/lower rep ranges to reach muscle failure before cardiovascular failure. While smaller muscles need less weight and higher reps so that your joints and connective tissue are stressed as little as necessary. Smaller muscles need less volume per workout, more weekly frequency, since smaller muscles recover faster, while larger muscles can handle many more sets per workout at lower rep ranges and take longer to recover.
Can you do something similar regarding shoulder pain when training delts? Particularly tips on recovering from rotator cuff injuries would be appreciated.
amazing video. Thank you for the work you do
This sounds more like ‘how to avoid elbow pain’ rather than how to fix it. If you want to fix it, strengthening your connective tissues is a good place to start. Try incorporating some JM Press in your training and some tricep cable push downs where you go well above parallel on the eccentric.
Hope it helps 👍
In terms of grip and forearm flexor strength it was only when I started doing behind the back wrist curls that I improved the instability I developed from golfer's elbow. I can't credit it entirely, because it took almost 18 months for the golfer's elbow to subside and I've done a few other things as well, like twist gripping and pulldowns allowing a light stretch. Ik ga zeker de hoge reps met minder gewicht uitproberen. De redenering dat zoiets als een tricepsextensie geen krachtoefening hoeft te zijn, is eigenlijk heel logisch.
I have found that certain back exercises worsen my pain and aggravate it more than triceps, I'm just more aware of the pain when doing triceps isolation. I'm talking about golfer's elbow (medial epicondylitis).
I modified my back movements, like switching weighted pullups to lat pulls, and that seemed to help a LOT. I'm now easing back into some heavier back movements, but have modified them to take stress off the forearm muscles. I always used straps, but I've gotten some pullup handles to put on a straight bar that are more accommodating than the rubberized pullup stations at my gym.
I have also found high rep forearm training a few times a week to be beneficial in rehabbing the elbows. Plus, I have gotten notable forearm growth. Win-win.
Rarely, I've gotten actual pain in my triceps tendon, but that usually seems to be a load management issue and temporary for me, but a chronic nagging issue like I've had from the forearm tendons.
Great video. My absolute favorit triceps movement skullcrusher w. dumb bells got me a severe elbow pain last year when reaching 20 kg pr. arm. A pain that destroyed all my workout and daily tasks. Now i don't do skull crushers, furthermore I work my forearm(i never did that) and my pain is completely gone. And yes, singlearm triceps rope pushdowns with little weight gives an awesome pump and my arms love it. Thanks for the insight Menno.
That email with the line of 'i have elbows of 6 year old girl with osteoporosis ' got me 😂😂😂😂😂
thank you for this
TRX and rings are god tiert for elbow pain, rows and pull ups on them feels great when u get pain from chin ups
This Has Been A Huge Issue These Last Two Weeks.
Psychic Menno To The Rescue... Cheers 🫶
I think the 70 % of 1 RM treshold to cause adaptations in the tendons argument is usually applied the other way; you should go lower in reps to make sure that you make your tendons stronger. I would think this should especially be important for training the achilles tendon for runners and the patellar tendon for basketball players. For instance S & C coach Jake Tuura seems to train his patellar tendons super heavy with high frequency but few sets each time to be able to play basketball. On the other hand going very high in repetitions could be beneficial for "pumping" blod into the tendons. I would guess that the best for tendons would be a mix of doing >= 25 repetions (warm up and cool down) and doing
Long term, you want some heavy lifting in there, indeed, but when you already have pain, heavy lifting is generally a no go. You don't need to stimulate more adaptations. The tissue is already going to remodel on its own if you just let it heal.
Thanks for the great tips, Doctor GigaChad.
Awesome video. I was told once that pain on a level of 2 - 3 /10 is .. sort of OK, but don't go beyond that.
Also... Could you do wrist and shoulder pain as well (and maybe knees... yes knees :-)
Loved this one. Super informative and helpful. Gracias!
Vijfde tip :)
25 rep sets of rope or band pushdowns seem to help with warming my elbows up. Then I'm good for heavier cable pushdowns with a bar attachment. I avoid bar skull crushers as they hurt my elbow no matter what.
My left elbow keeps squeaking and grinding/clicking when I do overhead shoulder press ... I will have to try these ... Thanks so much
I have exactly this, and is getting better while I'm continuing lifting, what I have been doing is an anti inflammatory diet, or rather saying, a PMSF diet, so only protein and practically nothing else, since fat and carbs inflame the body, also as you say in your video, the slow controlled tempo and with ROM just before I feel pain, and perfect, no pain, I also use those elbow compressors, and with that, now I can lift as heavy as always, but with same slow controlled technique, so is getting better, So from next week I will incorporate again carbs and fats. Best
to 2) in my personal experience as an athlete its better to also train while one has an injury, but really light. for example biceps tendonitis in climbers. its a common injury. often people rest up to six weeks, go back on the wall and immediately injure themselves again. if you still work out really light that doesnt occur.
How about a video on back pain / SI joint pain or even a critique of stuart mcgills ideas?
i was looking for this exact topic...my triceps at left arm had big growth in last 6 months but 3 months since i have been dealing with pain...I tried eating collagen,lowering weight and even taking time off from training...let me try these tips..thankyou
I messed up my elbow ~6 months ago (I think from pushdowns), but I've managed to mostly work around it for all muscle groups EXCEPT my lats... I can't do any sort of pull downs without feeling some pain. Fortunately it's not debilitating, but still sucks
CS2 bomb beeping is activating my running muscles
Amazing video
Old school tip for elbow pain PREVENTION: Start your sessions with cable working sets before you go to heavy dips, cgbp, skullcrushes.
Don't spend too much time in the lockout (useless for hypertrophy anyway) and emphasize the stretch (good for connective tissue strength also lowers the weight). Don't use grips and angles that are awkward, even if they don't cause pain immediately.
Once you've wrecked your elbows and you're above a certain age, there might be no going back. So focus on prevention.
appreciate you
Similar to the bill starr injury recovery method from the 60s? Except he doesn't recommend failure, but 20 reps with light weight. It's a great protocol.
"WTF does that mean" got me 😂
Overhead triceps extensions are more problematic for shoulders than elbows. If the position is off slightly and the weight is sufficient you can easily dislocate shoulders if you are hypermobile. Skullcrushers and pushdown make it much safer on shoulders.
This video was made for me
I think the study you cited actually contradicts your first point. It says that loads >=70% are required to create beneficial adaptation of the tendon. The implication being that if you have a pathological tendon, you should aim to do an appropriate amount of heavy loading to allow for adaptation and remodeling of the tendon. You misrepresented that finding and said that loads
valuable information
Just make sure the tension of the weight/cable is in the SAME DIRECTION as the ELBOW WANTS TO OPEN.
If the arm has to twist to open, or curve, DON'T DO IT.
Imagine a cable pushdown that ends all the way on your side, but your hands are pronated (like holding a barbell). See how your arm twisted, the tension is trying to bend your elbow sideways? See how your elbow wants to bend into your body (while the tension is in front of your body)? Thats what you want to avoid! Anything that does that, avoid, or do it differently.
Full ROM pushdowns fucked up my left elbow. I get serious pain by doing curls.No more biceps training for me.
Excellent video. To add to this: potentially the JM press. It goes against most points in the video, and it feels like sh#t on the elbows, but that's the whole point of the exercise. It intentionally puts extra pressure and stretch on the elbows, to strenghten them (if used responsibly ofc.). Several armwrestlers and some strongmen with elbow pain use the JM press to increase their connective tissue integrity around the elbows. Maybe too risky/advanced for a general video about injury prevention though...
This should be titled: How to Placebo Yourself into Pain
I find low freqency and higher volume better for my weak joints and tendons. Also do higher reps if any problems.
I change exercises as soon as I see it start to become a problem. I to the exercise with high stretch usually at the end part of the workout.
Skullscrushers go last.