500g chicken breast - 800 calories 150g protein Double scoop protein shake - 250 calories 50g protein Total: 1050 calories - 200g protein Imagine thinking that's not natural lol.
@matlenaghan7488 If I were single the everyday chicken thing wouldn't be an issue but I have to budget my food around my family and having a variety of protein sources. Gets daunting tracking that on a regular basis. But I can typically get around 70-80% of that figure.
@redcenturion88 Yea that's fair man, I just think people over complicate things and they get in their head that something isn't possible, is unnatural, too hard etc because they don't know of an easy way to do it. So people look at their diets of bowls of cereal, ham sandwhiches and cabonara and say it's impossible to eat 200g of protein a day. But if your goal is to eat 200g of protein a day then and thats your focus it's definitely possible.
Your videos are absolutely excellent, because: - they are highly informative, always thoroughly referenced and backed by research, and the distinction between your opinion / interpretation, if any, is easily distinguishable from raw data or the conclusions of studies - you go straight to the point without anything unnecessary getting in the way - can only speak for myself, but as the non-native speaker of English that i am, your use of the language is easy to follow, coherent, and paints a logically sound picture of the subject matter - you exhibit a holism while going through a specific topic which, to my experience, is extremely rare and helps anchor the matter at hand into a larger framework that makes it much easier to grasp for someone like me who really does not understand anything about this field by himself - the use of illustrations is on point and is an additional benefactor in increasing understanding - there's just the right amount of nonchalant humour that often comes unexpectedly yet always in a manner that improves the experience It almost feels like daylight robbery to be able to subscribe to one as erudite as yourself and receive these vast amounts of knowledge without having to do anything else. Thank you very much, absolutely brilliant.
There's something about how Menno goes over research. Authoritative without being arrogant. Two minutes into the video and you're firmly stuck in when most TH-camrs are still telling you to like, comment, and subscribe.
CTAs should be at the end, or in the middle (if you've got like a 20 minute video) Why Files is the only channel I watch that's allowed to advertise at beginning for me lol.
This was exactly the question I've had for a long time, thanks for answering it! Makes me feel better knowing that once you've been consistently nailing your protein goals for a while, you don't have to change anything when you switch from bulking to cutting. You really only need to adjust carbs up or down.
Things I have learned in 2024. Protien requirements do not change during a cut or bulk, other than in extremely untrained individuals there is little benefit to bulking with very high surpluses. You don't need a crazy amount of protien. Seems like bulking is a slight surplus then cutting over a few weeks is pretty optimal, with at least .7g/lb of protein.
He notes the “Freedom units” conversion at .82/lb of bodyweight near the end of the video. This is the just-to-be-safe upper threshold while in energy deficit.
I am 6 feet, 85 kg male with 15% body fat percentage. I have been weightlifting since the last 14 years and have tried 75 grams, 100 grams and 150 grams protein per day keeping all other variables constant (total calories, workout etc) I have not even found a single difference among all three protein intakes in body composition, strength or anything else. Infact, my blood work is the best at 75 grams protein per day
I'm a little suspicious of different blood work results at different protein intakes. Did you account for saturated fat intake? Because most protein sources have them and saturated fat ups cholesterol and it may make the results being described as worse
Great video! Part of the equation for me during a cut is the thermic effect of protein and it being more satiating, so a higher protein intake sometimes makes sense in my opinion.
I had ACL surgery recently. Was taking lots of protein before and kept it up after surgery. Had quite a bit of muscle atrophy in my leg, probably not because of lack of protein, but more likely because I was barely using it.
Its kind of depressing, that we are evolutionary made to be so "effective" at saving energy, that we like to get fat and lose muscle mass nearly as soon as we dont apply the additional forces. Id like to get a pill, that does not allow my body to dissolve all that muscle tissue, when i get seriously injured/sick (without the usual side effects of the stuff we have now ofc)
Just a heads up. Look into passive BFR recovery. Helps prevent muscle atrophy whilst also speeding up the recovery, without needing to use it the muscle. Nice side effect is that when you eventually get back to training you should have higher peripheral endurance in the limbs you occlude. It's not a panacea but it should help.
I agree. Anyone who has lifted consistently through bulks and cuts will have seen that you can absolutely build muscle in a cut. For sure...100%. What I'd like to see in such a video is a demonstration of just how much varying glycogen levels affect lean muscle mass measurements. When we cut, we often have lower glycogen levels which adversely affect lean muscle mass measurements...we feel flat, our tape measure tells us our muscles are shrinking and we assume we are losing muscle mass in a cut. Yet, once we 'carb up' and replenish glycogen levels (to similar levels found in maintenance or buking)...as if by magic, our tape measurements go up and our lean mass measurement improves. People need to take this into account before saying you can't build muscle in cut.
U can build muscle in a small deficit, no one intelligent will refute this because there are studies showing this. However the question is, is it worth your time? That is, how much less are u gonna build in a given time compared to if you were in a slight surplus.
@@kavishU0902 Yeah, I guess that's where individual priority takes over. It's worth your time if you actually want to cut some body fat. My challenge - probably like some others here - has always been trying to get in and out of a cut as quickly, yet effectively, as possible and then staying in a surplus for as long as possible without ballooning up in weight. I often mess it up - for example I eat too much when I'm meant to be cutting - hence prolonging the overall cut and I eat too much over my surplus when I'm bulking - hence getting too fat too quickly and thus shortening the bulk because I get to a point where I'm feeling too chubby and I want to cut again. I guess it's practise and discipline I need.
@@kavishU0902 exactly go ahead and try to up your deadlift by 30 Kilos on a defecit. That's simply not going to happen, even of theoretically possible.
It's purely anecdotal of course, but personally when i was a lifting novice i gained a substantial amount of muscle while on an average of 500-750 kcal deficit for a few months, while on a high protein diet of course. I'm not sure if it would work once you're in an intermediate/advance stage though. It should be said i was substantially overweight when i started lifting, probably ~30-35% BF.
Thank you for this video finally! Im so sick of seeing the recommendation that you up protein during a cut "just in case". If 0.7 g/lb gives the max protein synthesis, your body isnt going to somehow be able to synthesize more protein on a cut. And if you arent expecting to gain muscle, or atleast gain substantially less on a cut, then you dont even need to maximize protein synthesis you just need to consume enough for a positive protein balance (which is somewhere closer to 0.4 g/lb from what i remember from the meta analysis). So then 0.7 g/lb actually is still an overshoot during a cut
On a Stronger by Science Podcast with Greg and Eric Trexler, they looked at the meta-analysis that Menno talks about and showed the graph at 9:57. With some extra analysis, Eric showed that if you take away some of the outlier data points, there is a ~1% variance of gains between 1.25 g/kg and 1.6 g/kg. 1.25 g/kg which is less than .6 g/lb which is relatively close to that .4 g/lb that you pointed out. Interesting stuff, but atleast one thing is for certain. No more 200g of protein needed anymore, this is actually a very reasonable take that can lead us to have a healthier lifestyle.
I would love to see studies about using x amounts of protein + creatine in elders above age 75/85 to prevent sarcopenia and the amount of strenght training to improve gait, rates of falling and self higiene independence. MD here from Portugal and a great fan!
I read this on your site a month or two ago and I am a happy camper lowering my protein intake after years of getting smashed by supplement companies. Now I only need a $40 bulksupps bag for dessert and boom. Going from 200ish down to 150 makes a world of difference.
1:20 First study conversion for the American & British: 1 pound/lbs is 0.4535924 kg 1.6g*0.454 = 0.7264g/per/day 2.8g*0.454 = 1.2712g/per/day Menno recommended targeting between 0.73~0.82g per lbs of body weight over at least three meals a day.
Also note that those numbers are for relatively lean people. The fat people in one of the cited studies only needed 1.2g/kg. So you should base your protein intake on your lean body mass, not your total body mass.
Amazing video! This is pretty cool as sometimes when you’re cutting and you’re getting pretty low on calories, eating 2g/kg leaves quite little room for carbs which you need to have sufficient energy to train. Being able to have more energy in carbs is quite nice in this instance, while I do realise that protein has a quite high effect on satiety.
Mr. Henselmans! I wanted to ask your opinion on what is the max deficit you would recommend for someone with a healthy bodyfat percentage? I am personally a big fan of minicut to get back to bulking fast. On my next cut coming this month I plan on eating at a 1000 kcal deficit for a month with every micro nutrient maxed out. Fat intake will be above 50 grams around 60-70g. What are your thoughts on more aggressive cuts.
I live in Argentina (A country in economic crisis, with 3% monthly inflation in food, in december it was 30% LOL), what protein intake would you say that can have the best price/gains ratio? Also, what are good cheap protein sources? Thanks for the information, I've also read your book, and it's really, really good, much better than a lot of self-improvement books (which is my favourite genre)
In my area, the cheapest good protein sources are eggs, lowfat dairy, soy, and dry beans/lentils. Bulk dry beans tend to be very cheap, but the protein quality is lower than animal/dairy, so you need more of it.
@@SeuOu Tbh I think the protein quality idea is somewhat over hyped. Beans are low in methionine primarily, wheat/dairy is traditionally how that gets topped up, but tbh I don't think we have that much solid data on how crucial methionine is for hypertrophy (Menso would know more). And it's not like beans have 0. Tbh as long as you are mixing it up (i.e. not literally just eating navy beans & rice), you're probably good. Leucine might be worth tracking, but bean protein is circa 10% leucine so tbh you are probably ok if you are hitting your daily protein level on a bean-heavy diet. Whilst he currently eats a more hybrid diet, Alex Leonidas definitely made a lot of gains on beans.
If Argentina currently has a similar price distribution between macros as Paraguay, it is meat. Since the bioavailability is high, you can eat at the lower end of the protein range. Meat is relatively cheap in Paraguay compared to other foods. Beef costs less per kilogram than broccoli.
Do you have any good info if protein requirements increase for people over 40? I'm 45 and I think I saw somewhere that there is an increase in requirements, but I don't know if it's supported by any study so far. Would much appreciate an answer, but no pressure :)
Without being a scientist I'm saying this for months now. Finally I have a video I can people direct to in these discussions where people claim you can neglect carbs and fats and just eat as much protein as possible during diets as this is important to retain muscle.
Very interesting as always. For people like me...would love to see a study geared towards the niche population of competitors in prep. Been doing this for a long time and although its personal anecdote using myself and countless clients, these lower protein requirements tend to lead to much more muscle loss than 2.4-3g/Kg. Top compare the rigors of prep to any other population is may or may not be the same. Open minded as always though!
I would love to know why you reccomend 1.8g/kg if going over 1.6 Is always unnecessary for everyone, and probably already excessive if you are getting most of your proteins from high quality sources.
9:57 I don't think the data points justify that interpretation. The researches basically went into the analysis with the assumption, that there is a point at with more protein provides absolutely no benefit and a linear increase up to that point, and then were just fitting a graph with that constraint for that data. I think even a simple linear fit would match the data better. We know, that this is not true, because we can't just eat tons of protein to get tons of muscle, but that is how the data looks like. Personally I think it's an asymptotic relation, but I also don't think it really matters in practice. You just can't increase protein without affecting calories and food choices, and at some point this will become the issue.
Hello...? Do you understand what linear regression is? Across the whole sample set, the result (meaning the model itself based on R2 or statistical significance) might not be relevant, but when we subdivide our observations into two groups, we can see that from some point onward, the statistical relationship is not relevant. This is no different than using LASSO regression and picking the IVs that display the strongest relationships with the DV.
some articles say 1.1 to 1.7 g/kg of lean body mass is sufficient for weight lifters. Another one says 1.6 to 2.2g/kg of lean body mass. Is your recommendation of 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg in total body weight or lean body mass?
The problem is accurately measuring lean body mass. Using total body mass will cause you to slightly overshoot your protein requirement, but it's so much easier to use that I think it's the best choice.
Target/goal bodyweight is probably the best simple number to use. This will skew protein slightly higher because most people overestimate their lean weight anyways. LBM isn't bad but its hard to really calculate. These numbers aren't that magical exact so use whatever you want and don't panic if you are a bit higher/lower.
4:54 to be fair I don’t think anyone ever claimed that protein intake would protect you from muscle loss during bed rest and therefore absolute inactivity.
The real biggest reason that I personally substantially increase my protein consumption during fat loss periods is related to its anorexic or hunger suppression effects. I personally find it to be very mild, but curious if there are any evidence on the topic in regards to diet adherence on mild calorie deficit comparing hight and moderate protein consumption.
@@JK56864not in my experience. I mean. It ain't a study but my eating less and replacing the last meal of the day with 3 apples diet was tougher than just eating lots of protein. A protein shake fights hunger better than an apple
@@gur262 Yeah, I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables, but satiety is different from being physically 'full'...I can fill up on plant stuff, and still have low satiety. Filling up with protein is the complete opposite effect, full and high satiety.
Wow, some great white pills to give us. 1.6g/kg for cutting and bulking phases seems to be the spot that we should be at. Thank you for this type of content Menno!
I think the reasoning is because protein is the most satiety inducing macro thus leading you to eat less overall. It's not that you necessarily "need it" but it sure helps and studies have shown that as well.
Brilliant menno thanks. This guy does 1 set to failure every day, if I do 1 set to failure on most muscle groups I ache for 1-2 days. Any idea how to recover faster
What I'd be curious to get an answer about... I've always assumed that the conclusion was right even though the hypothesis was incorrect. That it's not because of the additional breakdown, but because of all the aminos that we digest in other foods which we don't actively think of as "protein sources." If we have less overall non-protein food consumption (because we're on a deficit), it seems likely that we'd have less of these sort of "stray aminos" that our body can and does make use of, so it didn't seem unrealistic to think that higher protein intake could have some use? But then again, people also tend to significantly overestimate how much protein they need in the first place anyhow, so 🤷🏻♂️
very interesting video. i would have 2 questions about the topic: 1- would enanched people benefits from higher protein intake? 2- i’m not that much concerned on what is the minimum most effective dose for muscle gains/mainteinance… rather that: would it be detrimental if i go higher with my protein intake?? how much can in increase protein intake with no harm for the body?
@@seaofseeof less protein?? that’s a little bit counterintuitive!! if you’re taking something that increase your ability to engage protein sysntesis… why should you want to consume less of them?? 🤔
@@rickycarfan54 I found it counterintuitive too, and I double-checked, and I misremembered. Enhanced athletes do need more. The article is titled 'The myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal protein intake for bodybuilders' But it's an old article by now.
What need is some research on the combined effect on connective tissue as well as hypertrophy of various protein intakes, if there is one. This would be informative for people who exercise for reasons other than aesthetics. If we subject our connective tissues to greater stress, is there an additional protein requirement beyond what is optimal for muscle protein synthesis?
I believe when you addressed one of the potential counters to your arg about trained individuals not needing more protein in a cut than untrained, that wouldn't be the steelman. The correct direction of counter is game theoretical. It would be to say that, as one shifts further from equilibrium, namely becoming "unusually jacked" the body will simply fight harder and harder against you. But this needs to be in combination with the fact that AT maintenance calories, something unusual happens, you introduce a new equilibrium of weight maintenance that is deeper rooted than the "State of the bodies development". The caloric equilibrium overpowers the fact you've altered your body through training. The argument would be that more protein would be uniquely more important for trained individuals during a cut as a result of the fact that in caloric equilibrium your body doesn't necessarily look to change that much. But on a cut you're going to have to fight tooth and nail to maintain muscle if you're incredibly well trained because the body is "looking for tissue to lose". So it will have a greater priority for unneeded muscle tissue in trained vs not trained. Ofc this argument is not well formed and sucks right now, but that is the direction I would go, not in some new mechanisms.
You mention looking for tissue to lose, so maybe it could matter what kind of fat loss phase you're in. If you have a reasonably high body weight and are losing weight to look better your body can easily find the tissue it uses to store energy for future use and break fat down as intended. The high protein intakes could matter more for competitive bodybuilders or those who decide to go on a fat loss phase despite already having visible abs where fat tissue to lose is becoming harder to find. Or maybe we just don't need that much protein. What the fuck do I care, I weigh so much I can't even figure out what my lean body mass is to do the math and just played around with it till I found a number that seemed to work.
@@kinginthenorth1437 hah I don't know, I mean ultimately the answers won't be so simple as to follow these types of heuristics people are using. The actual answer in terms of adaptations will be complex. But yeah, don't worry too much about shoving protein down.
I am virtually vegan. Eat the odd egg, I weigh 72-73 kilos. Dress size 10 in UK sizes. Menopausal not in HRT, 51 and still gaining. My average protein is 80-110grams at 2200-2600 cals. I gaining still. There might be a way to better gain but I doing better than most I know in same boat.
Is there any difference for trained folk who don't eat animal products? I've read high fibre plant based noms can prevent some of the protons from being utilised even when all proton amino's are covered within each meal.
Before I went vegan I tried to get 180gr of protein a day and I was getting fat. I've been vegan for 5 years now and instantly got shredded in the first 6 months and put 10lbs of muscle in the first year just with 120-150gr a day. Protein comes with a lot of carbs and fiber attached, you're always full of energy, satiated and in a caloric deficit with positive nitrogen balance. It is pretty easy to stay lean year round, and it is cruelty free which is a great plus
Never heard about that practice of increasing protein while in a deficit. Consume sufficient protein, moderate fat, skip the rest. That's what I hear everywhere.
Menno, could you please do a video about PSMF (Protein Sparing Modified Fast)? I stumbled upon it on your IG and on some other YT channels. WDYT about using whey vs casein protein in such fasts? I am using it for 1.5 months in a slightly different way (4 fast days per week, other days close to maintenance). I've got great fat loss results without major cravings and hunger. I think more people should hear about it! And your suggested way of calculating carbs and fats macro for PSMF works great for me.
The buried lead here is this is GREAT news for those cutting and trying to retain the most muscle possible. Reducing the total calories from protein while deep in a fat loss phase in favor of more calories from carbohydrates to fuel performance, potentiate pumps, and just make your brain slightly less pissed off sounds like heaven.
1) People misinterpret muscle glycogen and water depletion, and reduction in related performance as muscle protein breakdown. 2) Elite endurance athletes have been found to avoid negative nitrogen balance with about 1.6 grams per kilo per day and see no increase in muscle protein synthesis above about 1.9 and actually have a drop in performance above that level due to elevations in ammonia. 3) Ketones do reduce muscle protein breakdown but high protein diets block ketosis and keto-adaptation.
Is it possible that a lack of protein may cause someone to gain strength without size? I seem to have the opposite problem I'm much weaker than people less muscular than me (same rep ranges, similar height and body comp). Could that be due to their lack of protein and/or different genetics?
Strength is almost entirely determined by muscle size and motor unit recruitment. Motor unit recruitment increases with training familiarity and CNS adaptation, but once that maxes out for a specific movement, the rest is basically just muscle size and your limb ratios, i.e. someone with long arms and short legs/torso is going to be unusually strong at a deadlift, while someone with short arms will have an unusually strong bench press for their size.
@@SeuOu I think my CNS seems a bit crap at motor unit recruitment. After even just 1 or 2 hard sets I have a very sharp drop off in performance. And those sets aren’t particularly heavy. Aka shitty work capacity. It still seems stimulative however. Can one get stronger by increasing muscle size (not CNS wise ofc) even with an insufficient protein intake? Also it seems like many strongmen have relatively small muscles compared to bodybuilders. Is the difference just CNS adaptation?
@@uraninite8151Nah, they look small because they strengthen the muscles for exactly the tasks they do. Muscle size almost always equals strength - even if someone with less muscle is more skilled at lifting something heavy or bending a frying pan or such. They probably don't eat enough if they're not making gains. It takes almost as many calories to synthesize muscle as fat, and then the protein on top of that that makes it up. If you're not getting size and strength but working hard, you're not eating enough to give your body the extra energy to build muscle
I find that as long as carbs and fats are low i can eat protein until im full and still lose fat. I sometimes have 500g a day and still have a weight drop makes cutting easier.
What is the statistical error of the 1.6g/kg/d? Looking at the data shown at 10:00 it must be huge and one can fit a lot of stuff into the scattered mess. To confidently say from this, that the required protein is 1.6 doesn’t appear very scientific to me.
Really interesting! So, in theory, would someone need higher protein if they did push-pull days instead of isolated body groups? Or if they isolated body groups, would they need more protein on leg day?
Anecdotally I would say that my satiety is much higher when I’m taking in high protein while cutting. It helps me stay on the diet. I think there is probably universal truth to this aspect..
Always felt this intuitively. Good to see some science on it. I do think part of why people increase protein in a cut is satiation more than anything else
They have higher levels of anabolic resistance, so the protein intake on a per meal basis probably needs to be higher to have maximum basis. 0.4g/kg should be enough. To ensure all boxes are being ticked, having a daily intake of 1.8g/kg/day will likely stimulate maximum MPS
I remembered that number 1,6 g/kg and it’s only now that I realize it’s because I read an article on your website about this very topic after giving it a Google search 😅
At first glance it looks very interesting, as usual. I say at first glance because it seems quite complicated to follow. The house analogy was welcome, but I would have liked to have a little more to follow all the logic. Especially since I don't speak English and adding understanding of the language to understanding the content is not easy. I hope this little feedback will be useful. So maybe I'll wait for Dr. Mike to talk about it, with very simple examples and d-jokes 😄
Does it matter if the deficit is accomplished by cutting carbs vs fat? I had always thought that carbs were protein-sparing, meaning that lower carb intake necessitates higher protein.
How would you explain the contradiction between the claims in this video, and those in your video "The BEST ways to lose fat ranked according to 92 studies" from Aug 10, 2023? The chart in that video/study shows improved BF% outcomes for people with "energy restriction + high protein" vs just "energy restriction." Seems either the non-high protein group in that study were actually protein deficient, or that there's still a case to be made for slightly elevated protein intakes when losing weight.
I used to eat around 180g of protein for a long time until i upped the dose to at minimum 200g of protein which at the time was about 1.75g/kg. I dont know if its a placebo feeling or something else but this year i did see a big difference in muscle mass and strenght. It might be some otjer factor im not aware of but it does seem like going from roughly 1.6g/kg to what will after this cut will be 2g/kg did make a big difference
@@mikafoxx2717 from october last year when i did 180kg deadlift to this january when i did 200kg deadlift i stayed roughly the same weight and ate similar amounts. Up until may after that tho i did gain about 6kg yes but in those 4 months i only got my deadlift to 10kg higher
What about over fiftty trained mens ? Do the need more protein due to increased 'anabolic resistance' (i.e. reduced muscle protein synthesis.) ? I personally stick on 2.5 gr/Kg
Appreciate your commitment to bringing us latest research in such an easygoing, professional and objective manner. - What's your opinion on PSMF and similar very high protein / low calorie diets for those of us who prefer short bursts of dieting combined with maintenance instead of slower diets?
I would like to know his background. I generally try to stay clear of trainers and such. I’ve been listening to the expert researchers who are saying 1 gram of protein per pound of desired goal weight…..
To me it's ridiculous, how protein in diet today is mainly looked from the perspective of body building and performance. Not many look at it from other perspective like neurological one for example. The Kalish Institute has few gr8 videos on using amino acid treatments for depression and anxiety etc.
I honestly think most recommendations for protein for building muscle is over estimated by a huge amount. I reckon that 1g per kg of lbw is more than enough to build muscle.
Every amateur and pro bodybuilder does. This research only applies to non-bodybuilders let's be honest. And none of it applies when using steroids either.
@@JasonReagan84 Eric and 3DMJ aren't working with people using steroids. Also steroids aren't fucking magic, most logic still applies just the quantitative level of results increases.
I wish there was a factor for enhanced individuals.. but I assume this is also highly dependent on the amount of ffmi, since I would assume higher levels of muscle protein breakdown (since the body is not the biggest fan of maintaining metabolically active tissue obviously), but also higher levels of protein biosynthesis induced by the anabolics. Sure at the end of the day in that case it would be trial and error but I’d still be interested in having somewhat of a reference point just out of curiosity.
But what about the Enhanced people while cutting? You said with dr mike isratel they supposed to increase intake to 2.2-2.5 gram protein/body weight in kg is it still applicable or needs modification?
I keep seing new studies and people discussing that high protein intakes can over a lifespan cause strain on the kidneys and lead to potential kidney problems down the line, is there any truth to those claims?
I have been just eating protein by feel for a couple of years and yeah, I end up around 1.6g per kg. I eat more some times but I don't feel any better or make more gains eating more protein than that.
I think the important thing people need to remember, and probably the original basis for the thinking behind eating more protein when cutting, is that protein doesn't convert to fat stores as easily as carbs and fat. There's less "risk" in making sure you've got enough protein as opposed to keeping more fat or carbs in your diet to avoid excess protein and too large of a deficit at the same time. It's a lot worse eating more carbs or fat above need than protein.
I work at a morgue so protein is the most convinient and accessible macro for me. So I'll eat more anyway.
More dead people?
Wat?! 😂
@@BlackJesusChrist666 HE WORKS AT A MORGUE SO PROTEIN IS THE MOST CONVENIENT AND ACCESSIBLE MACRO FOR HIM. SO HE'LL EAT MORE ANYWAY
Absolute chad.
Fair.
Comes as a great relief to hear this. Trying to cram 200+ grams of protein into a 1700 calorie diet is huge pain.
Because it’s not natural………..
@ssing7113 well it certainly didnt seem tenable. But what is "natural"?
500g chicken breast - 800 calories 150g protein
Double scoop protein shake - 250 calories 50g protein
Total: 1050 calories - 200g protein
Imagine thinking that's not natural lol.
@matlenaghan7488 If I were single the everyday chicken thing wouldn't be an issue but I have to budget my food around my family and having a variety of protein sources. Gets daunting tracking that on a regular basis. But I can typically get around 70-80% of that figure.
@redcenturion88 Yea that's fair man, I just think people over complicate things and they get in their head that something isn't possible, is unnatural, too hard etc because they don't know of an easy way to do it.
So people look at their diets of bowls of cereal, ham sandwhiches and cabonara and say it's impossible to eat 200g of protein a day.
But if your goal is to eat 200g of protein a day then and thats your focus it's definitely possible.
Your videos are absolutely excellent, because:
- they are highly informative, always thoroughly referenced and backed by research, and the distinction between your opinion / interpretation, if any, is easily distinguishable from raw data or the conclusions of studies
- you go straight to the point without anything unnecessary getting in the way
- can only speak for myself, but as the non-native speaker of English that i am, your use of the language is easy to follow, coherent, and paints a logically sound picture of the subject matter
- you exhibit a holism while going through a specific topic which, to my experience, is extremely rare and helps anchor the matter at hand into a larger framework that makes it much easier to grasp for someone like me who really does not understand anything about this field by himself
- the use of illustrations is on point and is an additional benefactor in increasing understanding
- there's just the right amount of nonchalant humour that often comes unexpectedly yet always in a manner that improves the experience
It almost feels like daylight robbery to be able to subscribe to one as erudite as yourself and receive these vast amounts of knowledge without having to do anything else. Thank you very much, absolutely brilliant.
Thank you!
Bro says he’s not native in English while dropping words like holism and erudite 😭 💀
There's something about how Menno goes over research. Authoritative without being arrogant. Two minutes into the video and you're firmly stuck in when most TH-camrs are still telling you to like, comment, and subscribe.
does he turn you on sexual style?
Sadly this is less popular than it should be
@@terreausore2435So then why are you here?
@@LeanAndMean44 i do not see all this as legit research. At all.
CTAs should be at the end, or in the middle (if you've got like a 20 minute video) Why Files is the only channel I watch that's allowed to advertise at beginning for me lol.
This was exactly the question I've had for a long time, thanks for answering it! Makes me feel better knowing that once you've been consistently nailing your protein goals for a while, you don't have to change anything when you switch from bulking to cutting. You really only need to adjust carbs up or down.
Things I have learned in 2024. Protien requirements do not change during a cut or bulk, other than in extremely untrained individuals there is little benefit to bulking with very high surpluses. You don't need a crazy amount of protien.
Seems like bulking is a slight surplus then cutting over a few weeks is pretty optimal, with at least .7g/lb of protein.
He notes the “Freedom units” conversion at .82/lb of bodyweight near the end of the video. This is the just-to-be-safe upper threshold while in energy deficit.
Protein is more important during a cut
As in you should have more protein during a cut than a bulk
Mans breaking the fitness and nutrition industry meta. Great points about protein quality during cutting vs bulk hadnt considered that too
Protein quality is important 👍
Never rely on protein powders and supplements. Eat red meat and eggs. You'll never go wrong.
@@utewbdexcept that whey protein is one of the highest quality protein sources
I am 6 feet, 85 kg male with 15% body fat percentage. I have been weightlifting since the last 14 years and have tried 75 grams, 100 grams and 150 grams protein per day keeping all other variables constant (total calories, workout etc)
I have not even found a single difference among all three protein intakes in body composition, strength or anything else. Infact, my blood work is the best at 75 grams protein per day
Thanks for your comment
seriouly thanks for your comment ...... eatting tooo much protein has caused me uric acid problems....
@@begalooloo me too. I stopped taking protein supplements when my uric acid and SGOT, SGPT levels increased
I'm a little suspicious of different blood work results at different protein intakes. Did you account for saturated fat intake? Because most protein sources have them and saturated fat ups cholesterol and it may make the results being described as worse
Cool anecdote but I prefer actual studies telling me 1,6 g/kg is optimal
Great video! Part of the equation for me during a cut is the thermic effect of protein and it being more satiating, so a higher protein intake sometimes makes sense in my opinion.
I had ACL surgery recently. Was taking lots of protein before and kept it up after surgery. Had quite a bit of muscle atrophy in my leg, probably not because of lack of protein, but more likely because I was barely using it.
Its kind of depressing, that we are evolutionary made to be so "effective" at saving energy, that we like to get fat and lose muscle mass nearly as soon as we dont apply the additional forces. Id like to get a pill, that does not allow my body to dissolve all that muscle tissue, when i get seriously injured/sick (without the usual side effects of the stuff we have now ofc)
@@oezibanana8664With genetic engineering, we'll have that
Just a heads up. Look into passive BFR recovery. Helps prevent muscle atrophy whilst also speeding up the recovery, without needing to use it the muscle.
Nice side effect is that when you eventually get back to training you should have higher peripheral endurance in the limbs you occlude.
It's not a panacea but it should help.
@@oezibanana8664 It's called Anavar
Just started watching. Very happy you are covering this topic. I'm in calorie deficit right now and still focused on protein.
Thanks Menno! Your channel will be huge one day.
This guy is a GOAT. Thanks Menno
I feel like a myth busting video on recomping could be really helpful for those who still think you can't build muscle in a small cut.
I agree. Anyone who has lifted consistently through bulks and cuts will have seen that you can absolutely build muscle in a cut. For sure...100%. What I'd like to see in such a video is a demonstration of just how much varying glycogen levels affect lean muscle mass measurements. When we cut, we often have lower glycogen levels which adversely affect lean muscle mass measurements...we feel flat, our tape measure tells us our muscles are shrinking and we assume we are losing muscle mass in a cut. Yet, once we 'carb up' and replenish glycogen levels (to similar levels found in maintenance or buking)...as if by magic, our tape measurements go up and our lean mass measurement improves. People need to take this into account before saying you can't build muscle in cut.
U can build muscle in a small deficit, no one intelligent will refute this because there are studies showing this. However the question is, is it worth your time? That is, how much less are u gonna build in a given time compared to if you were in a slight surplus.
@@kavishU0902 Yeah, I guess that's where individual priority takes over. It's worth your time if you actually want to cut some body fat. My challenge - probably like some others here - has always been trying to get in and out of a cut as quickly, yet effectively, as possible and then staying in a surplus for as long as possible without ballooning up in weight. I often mess it up - for example I eat too much when I'm meant to be cutting - hence prolonging the overall cut and I eat too much over my surplus when I'm bulking - hence getting too fat too quickly and thus shortening the bulk because I get to a point where I'm feeling too chubby and I want to cut again. I guess it's practise and discipline I need.
@@kavishU0902 exactly go ahead and try to up your deadlift by 30 Kilos on a defecit. That's simply not going to happen, even of theoretically possible.
It's purely anecdotal of course, but personally when i was a lifting novice i gained a substantial amount of muscle while on an average of 500-750 kcal deficit for a few months, while on a high protein diet of course. I'm not sure if it would work once you're in an intermediate/advance stage though.
It should be said i was substantially overweight when i started lifting, probably ~30-35% BF.
Thank you for this video finally! Im so sick of seeing the recommendation that you up protein during a cut "just in case". If 0.7 g/lb gives the max protein synthesis, your body isnt going to somehow be able to synthesize more protein on a cut. And if you arent expecting to gain muscle, or atleast gain substantially less on a cut, then you dont even need to maximize protein synthesis you just need to consume enough for a positive protein balance (which is somewhere closer to 0.4 g/lb from what i remember from the meta analysis). So then 0.7 g/lb actually is still an overshoot during a cut
On a Stronger by Science Podcast with Greg and Eric Trexler, they looked at the meta-analysis that Menno talks about and showed the graph at 9:57. With some extra analysis, Eric showed that if you take away some of the outlier data points, there is a ~1% variance of gains between 1.25 g/kg and 1.6 g/kg.
1.25 g/kg which is less than .6 g/lb which is relatively close to that .4 g/lb that you pointed out.
Interesting stuff, but atleast one thing is for certain. No more 200g of protein needed anymore, this is actually a very reasonable take that can lead us to have a healthier lifestyle.
Would this be based on current weight, lean mass, or goal weight? Great video.
I would love to see studies about using x amounts of protein + creatine in elders above age 75/85 to prevent sarcopenia and the amount of strenght training to improve gait, rates of falling and self higiene independence. MD here from Portugal and a great fan!
Yeah I never really felt that made much sense.
I read this on your site a month or two ago and I am a happy camper lowering my protein intake after years of getting smashed by supplement companies. Now I only need a $40 bulksupps bag for dessert and boom. Going from 200ish down to 150 makes a world of difference.
1:20 First study conversion for the American & British: 1 pound/lbs is 0.4535924 kg
1.6g*0.454 = 0.7264g/per/day
2.8g*0.454 = 1.2712g/per/day
Menno recommended targeting between 0.73~0.82g per lbs of body weight over at least three meals a day.
Also note that those numbers are for relatively lean people. The fat people in one of the cited studies only needed 1.2g/kg. So you should base your protein intake on your lean body mass, not your total body mass.
@@pikatrainer3835 too many eggs. I feel sick
@@user-he4ef9br7z I eat six a day, it's not too bad.
@@user-he4ef9br7zyou can also uso milk, chicken, soy, whey, red meat and fish too
Excellent and controversial as always. Thanks Menno.
Amazing video! This is pretty cool as sometimes when you’re cutting and you’re getting pretty low on calories, eating 2g/kg leaves quite little room for carbs which you need to have sufficient energy to train. Being able to have more energy in carbs is quite nice in this instance, while I do realise that protein has a quite high effect on satiety.
Menno is a very fast talker. At 0.8 playback speed I stop feeling like I'm running to listen.
Mr. Henselmans! I wanted to ask your opinion on what is the max deficit you would recommend for someone with a healthy bodyfat percentage? I am personally a big fan of minicut to get back to bulking fast. On my next cut coming this month I plan on eating at a 1000 kcal deficit for a month with every micro nutrient maxed out. Fat intake will be above 50 grams around 60-70g. What are your thoughts on more aggressive cuts.
I live in Argentina (A country in economic crisis, with 3% monthly inflation in food, in december it was 30% LOL), what protein intake would you say that can have the best price/gains ratio? Also, what are good cheap protein sources?
Thanks for the information, I've also read your book, and it's really, really good, much better than a lot of self-improvement books (which is my favourite genre)
In my area, the cheapest good protein sources are eggs, lowfat dairy, soy, and dry beans/lentils. Bulk dry beans tend to be very cheap, but the protein quality is lower than animal/dairy, so you need more of it.
@@SeuOu Tbh I think the protein quality idea is somewhat over hyped. Beans are low in methionine primarily, wheat/dairy is traditionally how that gets topped up, but tbh I don't think we have that much solid data on how crucial methionine is for hypertrophy (Menso would know more). And it's not like beans have 0. Tbh as long as you are mixing it up (i.e. not literally just eating navy beans & rice), you're probably good. Leucine might be worth tracking, but bean protein is circa 10% leucine so tbh you are probably ok if you are hitting your daily protein level on a bean-heavy diet.
Whilst he currently eats a more hybrid diet, Alex Leonidas definitely made a lot of gains on beans.
If Argentina currently has a similar price distribution between macros as Paraguay, it is meat. Since the bioavailability is high, you can eat at the lower end of the protein range. Meat is relatively cheap in Paraguay compared to other foods. Beef costs less per kilogram than broccoli.
Awesome information!!! Thank you Menno!!! 💪😀👍
You have a way of delivering maximum content very succinctly.
Hanno is definitely a perfectionist
Do you have any good info if protein requirements increase for people over 40?
I'm 45 and I think I saw somewhere that there is an increase in requirements, but I don't know if it's supported by any study so far.
Would much appreciate an answer, but no pressure :)
Without being a scientist I'm saying this for months now. Finally I have a video I can people direct to in these discussions where people claim you can neglect carbs and fats and just eat as much protein as possible during diets as this is important to retain muscle.
Menno is a legend, respect.
Very interesting as always. For people like me...would love to see a study geared towards the niche population of competitors in prep. Been doing this for a long time and although its personal anecdote using myself and countless clients, these lower protein requirements tend to lead to much more muscle loss than 2.4-3g/Kg. Top compare the rigors of prep to any other population is may or may not be the same. Open minded as always though!
Regardless of what the research says, if nothing else, I feel vastly more satiated with higher protein whilst losing fat. I'll stick with it.
Me too, I am more firm than I was before I increased protein
Also my hair has grown since I increased protein intake
I would love to know why you reccomend 1.8g/kg if going over 1.6 Is always unnecessary for everyone, and probably already excessive if you are getting most of your proteins from high quality sources.
Thank you Great analysis and summary 🙏 on point and balanced as always.
9:57 I don't think the data points justify that interpretation. The researches basically went into the analysis with the assumption, that there is a point at with more protein provides absolutely no benefit and a linear increase up to that point, and then were just fitting a graph with that constraint for that data. I think even a simple linear fit would match the data better. We know, that this is not true, because we can't just eat tons of protein to get tons of muscle, but that is how the data looks like.
Personally I think it's an asymptotic relation, but I also don't think it really matters in practice. You just can't increase protein without affecting calories and food choices, and at some point this will become the issue.
Hello...? Do you understand what linear regression is? Across the whole sample set, the result (meaning the model itself based on R2 or statistical significance) might not be relevant, but when we subdivide our observations into two groups, we can see that from some point onward, the statistical relationship is not relevant. This is no different than using LASSO regression and picking the IVs that display the strongest relationships with the DV.
some articles say 1.1 to 1.7 g/kg of lean body mass is sufficient for weight lifters. Another one says 1.6 to 2.2g/kg of lean body mass. Is your recommendation of 1.6 to 1.8 g/kg in total body weight or lean body mass?
I have the same question
@@djthankgod TOTAL body mass
The problem is accurately measuring lean body mass. Using total body mass will cause you to slightly overshoot your protein requirement, but it's so much easier to use that I think it's the best choice.
Target/goal bodyweight is probably the best simple number to use. This will skew protein slightly higher because most people overestimate their lean weight anyways. LBM isn't bad but its hard to really calculate. These numbers aren't that magical exact so use whatever you want and don't panic if you are a bit higher/lower.
SBS did a video on this recently. They said the minimum is .54g/lbs lean body weight
4:54 to be fair I don’t think anyone ever claimed that protein intake would protect you from muscle loss during bed rest and therefore absolute inactivity.
The real biggest reason that I personally substantially increase my protein consumption during fat loss periods is related to its anorexic or hunger suppression effects. I personally find it to be very mild, but curious if there are any evidence on the topic in regards to diet adherence on mild calorie deficit comparing hight and moderate protein consumption.
Eating more fibre from fruits and vegetables has far more hunger suppression effects due to pectin
@@JK56864not in my experience. I mean. It ain't a study but my eating less and replacing the last meal of the day with 3 apples diet was tougher than just eating lots of protein. A protein shake fights hunger better than an apple
cruciferous vegetables, brother
@@gur262 Yeah, I eat a lot of fruit and vegetables, but satiety is different from being physically 'full'...I can fill up on plant stuff, and still have low satiety. Filling up with protein is the complete opposite effect, full and high satiety.
@@gur262 try filling up with whole foods rather than protein shakes, like cooked lentil stew, the satiety level is unparalleled for me
Wow, some great white pills to give us.
1.6g/kg for cutting and bulking phases seems to be the spot that we should be at.
Thank you for this type of content Menno!
Great video and information thanks 👍
I think the reasoning is because protein is the most satiety inducing macro thus leading you to eat less overall. It's not that you necessarily "need it" but it sure helps and studies have shown that as well.
Brilliant menno thanks. This guy does 1 set to failure every day, if I do 1 set to failure on most muscle groups I ache for 1-2 days. Any idea how to recover faster
Very interesting and informative, thanks.
This is incredibly helpful 💪
What I'd be curious to get an answer about...
I've always assumed that the conclusion was right even though the hypothesis was incorrect. That it's not because of the additional breakdown, but because of all the aminos that we digest in other foods which we don't actively think of as "protein sources." If we have less overall non-protein food consumption (because we're on a deficit), it seems likely that we'd have less of these sort of "stray aminos" that our body can and does make use of, so it didn't seem unrealistic to think that higher protein intake could have some use?
But then again, people also tend to significantly overestimate how much protein they need in the first place anyhow, so 🤷🏻♂️
very interesting video. i would have 2 questions about the topic:
1- would enanched people benefits from higher protein intake?
2- i’m not that much concerned on what is the minimum most effective dose for muscle gains/mainteinance… rather that: would it be detrimental if i go higher with my protein intake?? how much can in increase protein intake with no harm for the body?
I think that he has an article on his site explaining that enhanced individuals need less protein.
@@seaofseeof less protein?? that’s a little bit counterintuitive!!
if you’re taking something that increase your ability to engage protein sysntesis… why should you want to consume less of them?? 🤔
@@rickycarfan54 I found it counterintuitive too, and I double-checked, and I misremembered. Enhanced athletes do need more. The article is titled 'The myth of 1 g/lb: Optimal protein intake for bodybuilders' But it's an old article by now.
would be interesting to have his uodated point of view on the topic😄😉
What need is some research on the combined effect on connective tissue as well as hypertrophy of various protein intakes, if there is one.
This would be informative for people who exercise for reasons other than aesthetics. If we subject our connective tissues to greater stress, is there an additional protein requirement beyond what is optimal for muscle protein synthesis?
Palatable is a relative concept ;)
I believe when you addressed one of the potential counters to your arg about trained individuals not needing more protein in a cut than untrained, that wouldn't be the steelman. The correct direction of counter is game theoretical. It would be to say that, as one shifts further from equilibrium, namely becoming "unusually jacked" the body will simply fight harder and harder against you. But this needs to be in combination with the fact that AT maintenance calories, something unusual happens, you introduce a new equilibrium of weight maintenance that is deeper rooted than the "State of the bodies development". The caloric equilibrium overpowers the fact you've altered your body through training. The argument would be that more protein would be uniquely more important for trained individuals during a cut as a result of the fact that in caloric equilibrium your body doesn't necessarily look to change that much. But on a cut you're going to have to fight tooth and nail to maintain muscle if you're incredibly well trained because the body is "looking for tissue to lose". So it will have a greater priority for unneeded muscle tissue in trained vs not trained. Ofc this argument is not well formed and sucks right now, but that is the direction I would go, not in some new mechanisms.
You mention looking for tissue to lose, so maybe it could matter what kind of fat loss phase you're in. If you have a reasonably high body weight and are losing weight to look better your body can easily find the tissue it uses to store energy for future use and break fat down as intended. The high protein intakes could matter more for competitive bodybuilders or those who decide to go on a fat loss phase despite already having visible abs where fat tissue to lose is becoming harder to find.
Or maybe we just don't need that much protein. What the fuck do I care, I weigh so much I can't even figure out what my lean body mass is to do the math and just played around with it till I found a number that seemed to work.
@@kinginthenorth1437 hah I don't know, I mean ultimately the answers won't be so simple as to follow these types of heuristics people are using. The actual answer in terms of adaptations will be complex. But yeah, don't worry too much about shoving protein down.
I am virtually vegan. Eat the odd egg, I weigh 72-73 kilos. Dress size 10 in UK sizes. Menopausal not in HRT, 51 and still gaining. My average protein is 80-110grams at 2200-2600 cals. I gaining still. There might be a way to better gain but I doing better than most I know in same boat.
Is there any difference for trained folk who don't eat animal products? I've read high fibre plant based noms can prevent some of the protons from being utilised even when all proton amino's are covered within each meal.
Before I went vegan I tried to get 180gr of protein a day and I was getting fat. I've been vegan for 5 years now and instantly got shredded in the first 6 months and put 10lbs of muscle in the first year just with 120-150gr a day. Protein comes with a lot of carbs and fiber attached, you're always full of energy, satiated and in a caloric deficit with positive nitrogen balance. It is pretty easy to stay lean year round, and it is cruelty free which is a great plus
Never heard about that practice of increasing protein while in a deficit. Consume sufficient protein, moderate fat, skip the rest. That's what I hear everywhere.
Menno, could you please do a video about PSMF (Protein Sparing Modified Fast)? I stumbled upon it on your IG and on some other YT channels. WDYT about using whey vs casein protein in such fasts?
I am using it for 1.5 months in a slightly different way (4 fast days per week, other days close to maintenance). I've got great fat loss results without major cravings and hunger. I think more people should hear about it! And your suggested way of calculating carbs and fats macro for PSMF works great for me.
The buried lead here is this is GREAT news for those cutting and trying to retain the most muscle possible. Reducing the total calories from protein while deep in a fat loss phase in favor of more calories from carbohydrates to fuel performance, potentiate pumps, and just make your brain slightly less pissed off sounds like heaven.
Hey Menno, Will bulking and adding on a certain amount of muscle tighten some loose skin around my lower abs?
1) People misinterpret muscle glycogen and water depletion, and reduction in related performance as muscle protein breakdown.
2) Elite endurance athletes have been found to avoid negative nitrogen balance with about 1.6 grams per kilo per day and see no increase in muscle protein synthesis above about 1.9 and actually have a drop in performance above that level due to elevations in ammonia.
3) Ketones do reduce muscle protein breakdown but high protein diets block ketosis and keto-adaptation.
Is it possible that a lack of protein may cause someone to gain strength without size?
I seem to have the opposite problem I'm much weaker than people less muscular than me (same rep ranges, similar height and body comp). Could that be due to their lack of protein and/or different genetics?
Strength is almost entirely determined by muscle size and motor unit recruitment. Motor unit recruitment increases with training familiarity and CNS adaptation, but once that maxes out for a specific movement, the rest is basically just muscle size and your limb ratios, i.e. someone with long arms and short legs/torso is going to be unusually strong at a deadlift, while someone with short arms will have an unusually strong bench press for their size.
@@SeuOu I think my CNS seems a bit crap at motor unit recruitment. After even just 1 or 2 hard sets I have a very sharp drop off in performance. And those sets aren’t particularly heavy. Aka shitty work capacity. It still seems stimulative however.
Can one get stronger by increasing muscle size (not CNS wise ofc) even with an insufficient protein intake?
Also it seems like many strongmen have relatively small muscles compared to bodybuilders. Is the difference just CNS adaptation?
@@uraninite8151Nah, they look small because they strengthen the muscles for exactly the tasks they do. Muscle size almost always equals strength - even if someone with less muscle is more skilled at lifting something heavy or bending a frying pan or such. They probably don't eat enough if they're not making gains. It takes almost as many calories to synthesize muscle as fat, and then the protein on top of that that makes it up. If you're not getting size and strength but working hard, you're not eating enough to give your body the extra energy to build muscle
I find that as long as carbs and fats are low i can eat protein until im full and still lose fat. I sometimes have 500g a day and still have a weight drop makes cutting easier.
Do you need to count calories still
Only from carbs and fats not protein
@@ghostman824 that's crazy. But all my Protein has some fat in it even lean sources.
@rachelbrondel5858 I only use chicken breast, lean beef, tuna, fish, whey isolate. If you use fatty meats then it won't work
What is the statistical error of the 1.6g/kg/d? Looking at the data shown at 10:00 it must be huge and one can fit a lot of stuff into the scattered mess. To confidently say from this, that the required protein is 1.6 doesn’t appear very scientific to me.
Really interesting!
So, in theory, would someone need higher protein if they did push-pull days instead of isolated body groups? Or if they isolated body groups, would they need more protein on leg day?
are these weights 1.6 -1.8 per lean mass kg or overall body weight kgs did i miss it?
5:15 to 5:20 - he stipulates 'on lean body mass'
@@A.P.Garland He used lean body mass, for the effects the diet had. Not the protein calculation
@@erickfernando18 Yes, you're correct. Thank you.
Do you recommend higher protein intakes for your plant-based fat loss clients?
Anecdotally I would say that my satiety is much higher when I’m taking in high protein while cutting. It helps me stay on the diet. I think there is probably universal truth to this aspect..
Always felt this intuitively. Good to see some science on it. I do think part of why people increase protein in a cut is satiation more than anything else
Thanks for the great information and interpretation
Nothing new here. So you have a subscription to AARR. That's nice.
What about older individuals?
They have higher levels of anabolic resistance, so the protein intake on a per meal basis probably needs to be higher to have maximum basis. 0.4g/kg should be enough. To ensure all boxes are being ticked, having a daily intake of 1.8g/kg/day will likely stimulate maximum MPS
I think he read my mind when posting this video as I waa just think " What the min amount of protein I can get away with and still build muscle. "
I remembered that number 1,6 g/kg and it’s only now that I realize it’s because I read an article on your website about this very topic after giving it a Google search 😅
At first glance it looks very interesting, as usual.
I say at first glance because it seems quite complicated to follow. The house analogy was welcome, but I would have liked to have a little more to follow all the logic.
Especially since I don't speak English and adding understanding of the language to understanding the content is not easy.
I hope this little feedback will be useful.
So maybe I'll wait for Dr. Mike to talk about it, with very simple examples and d-jokes 😄
2:10 Isn't that a hypothesis rather than a theory?
P. S. "Freedom units" is so funny xD
If that.
Yep, he's using the more layman's definition of theory
Does this also means when bulking and taking 70%+ of high quality protein, you need less than the 1.6 for bulking?
Does it matter if the deficit is accomplished by cutting carbs vs fat? I had always thought that carbs were protein-sparing, meaning that lower carb intake necessitates higher protein.
High protein in a deficit is alot more to help keep sasiated and make it easier to stay in line and not cheat
Does age impact protein needs? Are older lifters less efficient in terms of protein synthesis?
Please do a video on recomp. Is it possible and effective? For trained people.
How would you explain the contradiction between the claims in this video, and those in your video "The BEST ways to lose fat ranked according to 92 studies" from Aug 10, 2023? The chart in that video/study shows improved BF% outcomes for people with "energy restriction + high protein" vs just "energy restriction." Seems either the non-high protein group in that study were actually protein deficient, or that there's still a case to be made for slightly elevated protein intakes when losing weight.
I used to eat around 180g of protein for a long time until i upped the dose to at minimum 200g of protein which at the time was about 1.75g/kg. I dont know if its a placebo feeling or something else but this year i did see a big difference in muscle mass and strenght. It might be some otjer factor im not aware of but it does seem like going from roughly 1.6g/kg to what will after this cut will be 2g/kg did make a big difference
Probably that you ate more in general to maximize gains?
@@mikafoxx2717 from october last year when i did 180kg deadlift to this january when i did 200kg deadlift i stayed roughly the same weight and ate similar amounts. Up until may after that tho i did gain about 6kg yes but in those 4 months i only got my deadlift to 10kg higher
What about over fiftty trained mens ? Do the need more protein due to increased 'anabolic resistance' (i.e. reduced muscle protein synthesis.) ? I personally stick on 2.5 gr/Kg
Appreciate your commitment to bringing us latest research in such an easygoing, professional and objective manner.
- What's your opinion on PSMF and similar very high protein / low calorie diets for those of us who prefer short bursts of dieting combined with maintenance instead of slower diets?
I like PSMF diets, but you have to be very careful with the duration in lean individuals. I have some IG posts about it, if you're interested.
I would like to know his background. I generally try to stay clear of trainers and such. I’ve been listening to the expert researchers who are saying 1 gram of protein per pound of desired goal weight…..
To me it's ridiculous, how protein in diet today is mainly looked from the perspective of body building and performance.
Not many look at it from other perspective like neurological one for example.
The Kalish Institute has few gr8 videos on using amino acid treatments for depression and anxiety etc.
This is a fitness channel focused on bodybuilding.
I honestly think most recommendations for protein for building muscle is over estimated by a huge amount. I reckon that 1g per kg of lbw is more than enough to build muscle.
Eric and 3DMJ recommend super high protein requirements. I know, because they trained me years ago.
Every amateur and pro bodybuilder does. This research only applies to non-bodybuilders let's be honest. And none of it applies when using steroids either.
@@JasonReagan84 Eric and 3DMJ aren't working with people using steroids.
Also steroids aren't fucking magic, most logic still applies just the quantitative level of results increases.
I wish there was a factor for enhanced individuals.. but I assume this is also highly dependent on the amount of ffmi, since I would assume higher levels of muscle protein breakdown (since the body is not the biggest fan of maintaining metabolically active tissue obviously), but also higher levels of protein biosynthesis induced by the anabolics.
Sure at the end of the day in that case it would be trial and error but I’d still be interested in having somewhat of a reference point just out of curiosity.
But what about the Enhanced people while cutting? You said with dr mike isratel they supposed to increase intake to 2.2-2.5 gram protein/body weight in kg is it still applicable or needs modification?
The "protein is not the most palatable food" nearly switchted the thumbs up to a thumbs down 😂.
No joke, nicely seared meat is amazingly palatable.
@@SeuOu because of the fat not the protein. Chickenbreast for example is therefore not as palatable as chicken tighs
Hey hey no mentions of fat thighs please I'm on a 2 day nofap streak. Ty @Pellegrino1
@@Pellegrino1 Not everyone prefers their chicken to be greasy.
The amount stock footage is getting out of hand, Menno. xD
Is the 1.6g/kg/day per kg of LEAN mass, or total body mass? Presumably a 150kg individual with high body fat wouldn't need 240g of protein per day?
as far as I know, for obese people there is a formula for adjusted/ corrected weight to be used
Mike Mentzer was already saying this in the 70's
So what does this mean for cutting? Can I keep some of my gains on a PSMF?
I keep seing new studies and people discussing that high protein intakes can over a lifespan cause strain on the kidneys and lead to potential kidney problems down the line, is there any truth to those claims?
Is this also valid for enhanced lifters?
However, 1-2 weeks diets are not sufficient at all to prove lower protein intakes being sufficient at all though.
I have been just eating protein by feel for a couple of years and yeah, I end up around 1.6g per kg. I eat more some times but I don't feel any better or make more gains eating more protein than that.
I think the important thing people need to remember, and probably the original basis for the thinking behind eating more protein when cutting, is that protein doesn't convert to fat stores as easily as carbs and fat. There's less "risk" in making sure you've got enough protein as opposed to keeping more fat or carbs in your diet to avoid excess protein and too large of a deficit at the same time. It's a lot worse eating more carbs or fat above need than protein.
This is a very good point.
Great stuff
of the things said, mostly are lean with small deficit. what about fat/obese with a big deficit?