Why rivers shouldn't look like this | It's Complicated
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ม.ค. 2023
- The quintessential image of a river you might recognise from post cards and paintings - nice and straight with a tidy riverbank - is not actually how it is supposed to look.
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It's the result of centuries of industrial and agricultural development. And it's become a problem, exacerbating the impact of both extreme flooding and extreme drought. Josh Toussaint-Strauss looks into how so many rivers ended up this way, and how river restoration is helping to reestablish biodiversity and combat some of the effects of the climate crisis.
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#Rivers #Flooding #Drought #Dams #Nature #Engineering
Classic example of shifting baseline syndrome. We've been raised with a contemporary idea of what nature is supposed to look like, so we don't realise the natural complexity that's been lost
Exactly 👍
Stop crying about climate change
@@thepatriarchy819 why?
@@thepatriarchy819 "Stop being worried about this thing that is causing problems"
@@thepatriarchy819 Stop drinking oil money.
The only rational strategy for human survival is working with nature, not constantly fighting it.
Mother Nature bats last.
In lots of situations yeah, I wouldn't put that as a blanket truth for all things.
" The only rational strategy for human survival is working with nature, not constantly fighting it. "
You are right. But that would mean, that growing and eating plant would have to be banned.
@@btudrus
No, it obviously wouldn't mean that at all.
Dear oh dear.
Nature started, it's a jerk
Here in Florida in the US, in the 1960s, they decided to straighten out and make canals of the winding Kissimmee River. Then after devastating flooding in the following decades, lack of water flowing southward and wildlife being affected, they decided to put it back the way it was. And spent billions of dollars to do it. Imagine if they'd just left it alone.
but Kissimmee River still looks very straight on the map. Doesn't look like they changed it back.
@@bulatsagdullin depending oh how recently they changed back the river, maybe google maps just didn't update the area yet
Look at los Angeles river, it is just a glorified sewage drain
Instead of manually reshaping it, why didn't they just remove the levees?
I work for the SFWMD. I can assure you that project should of cost a 5th of what it did, but we have highly inefficient government workers.
Checkout the C44 project. Massive resvioir. But it leaks and they smoked the multi-million pump🤣.
This is why introducing Beavers back to British rivers is important, those small wooden dams which slow down water flow are made naturally by Beavers. They're master architects with water.
As a Canadian, I can only approve!
Or why not just make sturdy damns and wehrs? Lol
@@randomchannel50 beavers are cheaper and always on the job
And they make great hats.
@@alexbowman7582 💀
I think it's really great that you put the Dutch "space for the river" project in the spotlight, but I also think you should have mentioned that a number of houses were demolished on order to expand the floodplanes. Projects like these do require relatively small sacrifices now in order to sustaine lives in the future, and we should be honest about that.
Always remember... When reading online or watching a video. It's all infotainment, not fact
Because most likely with everything you miss important details. Or you miss important things before or just after the article or video.
I refused to assume I'm getting the full picture whenever I watch, hear or read. I'd rather just research the topic a bit more if I'm truly interested in it
Well, if the house owners are adequately compensated, then you should not call it sacrifice, it’s just cost.
@@chuchaichu They were compensated/are being compensated yearly for increased risk of material damage. "Cost" is exactly how the it's mentioned in all the reports regarding this project.
But also mention that in those 1993/94 catastrophic disaster was narrowly avoided (that bad that about 250.000 people and 1M animals were evacuated just in case). It was concluded that those areas could only be protected by the upstream work throttling the peak of the high water wave. This avoidance of really catastrophic flooding is what triggered this project.
well, i think the social and economical cost of demolishing houses beforehand giving owners time and momey to buy elsewhere and rearrange their lives is far lower then sudden unexpected floods that demolish thousands of houses. Naturally these problems coincide with building (too) close to a river. What would one ecpect?
Pretty crazy that you can solve most problems by just following what the Dutch are doing
😭😭
or just follow what nature intended rivers to be
as a German I would like to follow the Dutch regarding motorway speed limits and drug policy. Plus I would like our trains to be operated by NS (the dutch carrier)
@@Markus_P the sarcasm is strong with this one.
There’s two things I don’t like.
Intolerance of other cultures and the Dutch
Here in my region of Saskatchewan, Canada the river systems are natural and massive! My city is built above the very deep flood plain valley of the North Saskatchewan River so flooding has never been an issue. The river is also in its natural state. Always changing and moving.
Yeah, but you live in Saskatchewan
no way!!! a fellow saskatchewaner!!!!!
As a southern Manitoban (sitting now a few hundred metres from the Red River), I can only envy the high ground you have (in Saskatoon?) on the beautiful North Saskatchewan!
@@PeloquinDavid saskatoon is on the south saskatchewan, they might be in PA or north battleford
@@mishchayt Oops. It's been a long time since I've been to Saskatoon. But I do recognize the similarities to Edmonton and to its branch of the Saskatchewan...
This is wonderful. So much we didn't know when we thought we knew it all.
They teach ya this in GCSE geography mate
Oh we knew, we just thought we could beat nature, outplay it. We couldn't
I work for South Florida Water Management District as field electronics technician.
Here in Florida, we have a network of canals through our urban areas that connect our wetlands to the ocean. And these canals all have gates to control water flow. When we have large amounts of rain, we can simply close our gates and keep the water in the wetlands. And the wetlands can drain via their natural flow patters. And the canals in the urban areas can focus on draining rainfall in the urban areas.
Pretty cool.
When men controlled and redirected water, it's regarded as progress and dev't. But when water remembered her own paths, men called it a natural disaster.
Oh I love this! No matter how we try, we cannot control Mother Nature.
Most of what we're taught to call "civilisation" has turned out to be a mistake.
Nature isn't a woman. It's a man.
And remember you said that, while you are pondering the whole climate change debate.
While I agree with this video, I also disagree with your statement. Man can simply bruteforce nature & it's been very effective the vast majority of the time.
Think of how we build cities, how we drive pillars deep into the ground to hold up sky scrapers, how America cut across the continent to make the Panama canal to connect 2 oceans.
Think of how the same was done in Egypt by the British I believe. Also let's not forget about how almost every home has AC & heating, we can control our very own personal climate. Not just temperature but humidity too.
We have craved across the land building massive networks of roads to transports food, materials, & ourselves, these road networks are like the blood vessels of modern civilization.
Also if you want more examples of brute forcing rivers look at the Detroit river, it connects 2 of the worlds "great lakes" a monumental amount of water flows between then each day & all with zero erosion to the embankment if the cities due to the thick walls locking the rivers path in place.
More so if we look to the droughts on Western America they are caused in part by the increased evaporation from hydroelectric reservoirs. To fix this floating solar will be added, that water can cool the panels increasing their efficiency while the panels convert the sun's energy into electricity instead of evaporating water. That reduced evaporation can now generate increased hydroelectric power & also flood farmlands.
The fact is that even this "return to nature" isn't embracing what were given, its strategically using nature is a way that gets the desired outcome. They certainly model how much they need to restrict the flow for the ground to absorb the ideal amount without turning the land into a swamp. This is yet another way man is transforming nature.
We have & will continue to, make earth a more ideal environment for humanity.
Very insightful! Not surprised the Dutch were featured here, the more we work with nature the better we'll all be.
It is also done with the Rhine. It is called Ruimte voor de Rivier= Space for the River.
Work with nature😂🤣.
The Netherlands is the exact opposite.
This is amazing! I had absolutely no idea rivers had been affected to such an extent. Great video.
Yes, me neither. Certainly, a very eyeopening piece.
Wow !did you finish kindergarten.
Thank you. Short video, gentle pace, solid, focussed.
You Folks are doing it ALL up right. What an amazingly well don doc.Great narrating, great subject, great graphics, great editing! Subscribed!
Like Attenborough stated.
Make nature wild again.
Spend a week in nature untouched my man and you'll change your mind
yeah,itsnotlike a new insight. Indigenouspeople tried to tell us but no, 'civilisation' was the nec plus ultra. You cannot build and live disregarding natural forces.
If you think re-routing rivers via artificial channels is dumb, you're gonna lose your mind if you see what the folks in Florida are doing: building whole neighbourhoods directly on top of the Everglades (swamps) that opens out to the sea.
Yep. Those houses are going to be washed away when a major hurricane comes through.
I mean that's just BEGGING for your house to be destroyed! Florida is already in a hurricane path...
When will people learn?! I would never live directly near a swamp! All those gators and pythons and whatnot lurk nearby!
Florida's gonna Florida... and they'll blame anyone but themselves when it does of course happen
Ahhh florida
I don't get why other TH-cam can't make their video as short as this, amazing visual, relaxing narration 👌
TH-camrs usually make their entire videos by themselves, in their free time, on a budget of whooping $0. This, however, is the Guardian, só they probably hired one person to write the script, another to narrate it, another to montage and add the visuals to the video, and picked the ones they thought best for each role. You basically watch a tv program here.
@@barabacula6056 They don't have $0 budgets. The TH-camrs who do this professionally make revenue from google adsense and services like patreon.
Well, I dont know what did you do in the UK and so, here in Czechia, most of the rivers is natural-based in its basins. I live along the river called Jizera (after which whole mountains Jizerské hory are named), and except few parts along major cities, which I am not sure if it has been manipulated with, this river is almost all natural. The prove is its high basin sides, which drag along for many kms in Czech Paradise and along my home land too. And as we all know, as the floods came, we have an 1km flood area where no buildings are allowed, and when the river falls down again, there are little swamps in rhe fields where the flooding was. So I believe not all rivers in the EU were changed, just maybe the western ones...
Same goes for the parts of the US I'm familiar with. We've dug a lot of canals to connect waterways and the Mississippi has seen major dredging and levee building, but most of our rivers are still the twisty things they always were - helped on quite a bit in regions where beavers have made a comeback. Their dams are as artificial as anything humanity builds, but they're also the kind of "leaky dam" the vid talks about for easing flooding downstream.
Where we fall down compared to you is flood plains. The US is inordinately fond of building on flood plains and high-risk coastal areas, which is why we spend so much money on places like New Orleans over and over and over again. It's practically unregulated in many parts of the country.
It's because the video is pushing an agenda and fails to mention the UK, which has rivers either in steep valleys or shallow flatlands has the problem only in the flatlands because the rivers used to be the central part of MASSIVE Bog heaths. As usual the Guardian wants to make the people in the countryside suffer for the city dwelling nonces to pat their own backs about something.
It's worth noting that the flood plains and loops described in this video mainly occur in flatter regions closer to the coast, given Czechia is landlocked, I imagine those were harder to come by.
I know this comment is 10 months old, but I decided to have a look at the river Jizera, and I don't think you're correct in calling it almost all natural. Where it is very small in the mountain forests it seems natural, but as soon as it reaches the farmed areas it has many many weirs, so the whole river is slow and wide, filling its entire basin which is constrained on both sides by agricultural fields. Except for the parts in the forest, there are no gravel banks, no riffles, and no braiding - overall it is very different to how it was before it was altered by humans. It's a beautiful landscape though, and I would love to visit Czechia someday.
In Hungary, the Tizsa River was straightened with levees. The farmland there used to produce 2 crops a year from all the nutrients deposited on the land. Now the river just flows straight down and joins the Danube, and it flows too fast for any shipping.
It's really obvious in some valleys that the river dumps debris until its bed is elevated then it spills off to the lower side of the valley to fill it up for awhile.
I remember working on weeding project in Oregon. We were clearing some invasive plants from what used to be a river. I was told the story about how somewhere in the late 1900's, it was decided that the marshland was to be a river, and it was dug up and sent forward. It destroyed the ecosystem, drove many animals off, and of course made the area very dry which killed a lot of plant life.
Now I say it used to be a river, because they went back in and returned it to how it had been found. The life I saw there was amazing. Baby molluscs, snakes, lizards, birds, and there were so many plants!! We found wild mint, baby's breath, long healthy grasses, it was like a little oasis in the middle of a pine forest. We had to step carefully and get a little wet removing the mullein and another plant I can't quite remember the name of.
From that day on, I have always wanted to work out in the forest. At the moment I got my eye on becoming a field botanist or mycologist.
In my region of America the rivers are natural, so these ideas of how contemporary rivers look are mostly foreign to me as the Rivers I know are all natural. This is probably due to the fact that they're not really navigable for shipping and agriculture is not really the biggest industry in the area.
Ohio only really used one canal I think and the state's name literally translates to "beautiful river." 90% of our rivers are natural.
@@Gr3nadgr3gory it's probably an American thing in general with the obvious exception of when a river flows through a sufficiently large city
Its always astonishing how we spend billions in developing new technologies to avoid natural disasters, yet all we actually have to do is to observe nature because nature has already figured out the solution.
Yep, and it is tested of time for hundreds or thousands of years before intervention
@@kornkernel2232 River changed course constantly. One day your home is on dry land, the next it's on mid river.
We're studying river morphology in grad school right now, be careful not to make assumptions about how a river is supposed to look. Yes, some rivers were modified and aren't responding well to being straightened, but many river don't meander much at all (at least during their current stage of evolution) and it's perfectly natural.
Aggressive flood drainage schemes does increase peak flood stages on the receiving streams and rivers. However, not all linear drainages owe their straightness to human intervention. Stream channel morphology is a complex balance between flow and topography. Basically high gradient drainages tend to be more linear (think alpine streams) where the run-off is rapid and infiltration often limited by less soils, etc. to adsorb rainfall. Linear drainages generally have poor floodplain development. Moderate gradient drainages start developing meanders as the peak volumes decrease in velocity resulting in the dropping out of gravels and sands. Usually these drainage stretches have more floodplain development. The more meandering the drainage the lower the overall velocity (energy) with increased sedimentation in the river channel and in floodplain which becomes become wider and well developed.
The issue tend to be with the middle and lower river/stream stretches which are often focuses of development that disrupts the natural stream bed morphology. Channelization may protect development from the steady state stream flow but can be overwhelmed by large flood events (such as the recent flooding on the Rhine River).
I thought I remembered reading that rivers naturally straighten as they age.
@@TheWhitePine5 there's a great video by Practical Engineering showing a physical scale model of river path changes, where a few minutes of video represents centuries or millennia of river meandering. It's really interesting. Depending on the circumstances it can straighten by itself, or a straight river can turn itself very curvy again!
This video is amazing thank you so much for all you do Guardian
The first definition sounds much more like a canal. Growing up in California and learning a lot about estuaries and riparian systems from a young age, it blows my mind that people think that they need to be straight and with no liminal spaces. Also, Erica Gies' work is incredible.
A little sidenote about the Dutch "Room for the river" project:
This project wasn't setup to slow down the water but to speed it up. Several measures were taken, like removing obstacles and reshaping floodplains, to increase the outlet capacity. In addition, waterbanks were created or reshaped to temporarily store more water during high water levels.
During the last few summers we were facing severe droughts, which led to a debate about this increased outlet capacity. So apart from less rainfall, less water is being infiltrated into the ground because it flows away faster, thus creating new problems...
But the city-folk think it looks pretty and more natural!
@@grimnir8872 there is not much true nature in The Netherlands. Most of what's called nature is actually created, shaped or at least "managed" 😉
@@grimnir8872 Actually it's the farmers that pushed for that. Farmers want lower groundwater since it makes the land less marshy/muddy, so better for crops and grass meadows, but during droughts they complain they can't spray ground water on the crops. Nature organizations are fighting for higher groundwater.
Each Curve extence the length of a River by a ratio of Pi. Imagine the amound of Water what it can keep more
Until an ox bow pond forms and the river takes the path of least resistance… in a straight line.
I remember looking into an emptied model yachting lake. The bottom was filled with some kind of sand or dirt, there was a large grate in the middle to drain it and a pipe on the side where a trickle of water was flowing from. But rather than the water flowing in a strait line from the pipe to the grate it meandered around and split into three different streams that converged at the end into one. And on the way to the Grate they occasionally created little patches of heavily saturated sand and some puddles. Fascinating thinking that that process on a larger scale is how the natural world takes shape.
My favourite rivers are the ones I grew up near in southeast Wales. I suppose I took for granted how incredible the River Usk and the River Wye are as they meander their way through the countryside.
I spent six years living in and around rural Herefordshire as a kid, I had a lot of fun of the Wye and surrounding smaller rivers, I learnt to canoe on the Wye actually, still have the certificate somewhere but I doubt it would add much to my CV or Record of Achievement at my age 🤣
I miss the rivers and mountains, but I’m back home in Jersey now, I’ll settle for the golden sandy beaches lol 🙂 🍻
@@KumaBeanthe Wye is now silted up and almost dead ,but still popular with canoeing types .
@@andrewtrip8617 That honestly saddens by heart 😔
🍻
Thank you for showing this.
Ah, a video about something that I have learned in 4th class of primary school. How nice.
@3:16 i love these river bridges.. so cool
Those are not bridges. It are dams that can block the river at a storm to prevent the sea entering.
@@Fjodor.Tabularasa aha! Thanks
Also can stop river erosion
Excellent, thought provoking video, thanks for posting!
I used to think there isn't anyone who doesn't know that those rivers have been artificially 'tamed' through human intervention. But the cost of houses on or close to the very large river that passes straight through my home city and the SHOCK and HORROR that ensures from these same residents when the river does what it does and floods these multi million $ homes, convinced me otherwise. 🙄🤦♂️
Extremely fascinating!
The Mississippi River is a prime example of what a river shouldn't look like. It has been trying to assume the course of the Atchafalaya river for half a century or more, but the army Corp of engineers refuse to let it do so. The result is thousand upon thousands of acres of silt shot off of the continental shelf into the Atlantic ocean each year.
What a relaxing voice to listen to 😊
This is a brilliant piece, great job Guardian
São Paulo would be a great subject for you to analize.
There are a few documentaries such as 'Entre rios' ('between rivers') that explain why the city suffers from constantly flooding
Fascinating.
Great video. World would be so much nicer if we worked with nature, not against it.
Great when people come up with simple ideas to sort things out. Sadly we have a Government that couldnt fill a garden pond.
You had a chance to salvage things with Jezza...
@@loldiers3238 Well Jezza isnt the only answer to all our problems
Jezza wasn't the answer to anything
@@crabby7668 Weird how Jezza came up on this
@@Greenpoloboy3 my thoughts exactly👍
This was a fascinating Video and delightful to watch!
Fascinating
Rivers can look however they want. You do not have the right to dictate how they look. All Rivers are beautiful.
Fascinating!
Happy that in Arkansas we still have some “wild” rivers or as wild as you can get in the modern world. My farm is along the Ouachita without any levees. We have dams up and downstream but she’s forming new oxbows as we speak and still flooding our oxbow lakes and river bottoms as I write this.
Wow.. this totally changes everything in my major thought.
What an eye opener. Thank you.
I wonder if insurance companies are considering investing into such projects.
Such a wonderful video - fascinating!
Thank you
Same problem here in Florida except it’s flat and it floods everywhere
Excellent
Very informative 👍
Thanks!
Very educative - well done The Guardian 🎉
Brilliant video. National Trust leading some wonderful “re-meandering” projects in the UK 👍
Re meandering projects is still man made interference to the river. It is no better than straightening it. Why do people who bemoan human interference in one way cheerleader it if done in some other way? The same goes for most of these Re Wilding or whatever schemes. It is just someone's incomplete opinion of what the result should look like not the result it would be if nature is left to its own devices.
Fantastic story
I live in northern ontario. When i go to the city i never think of the water there as natural and shake my head when folks are affected by flooding. If your home floods, you built it in the wrong place and you need to move it. The land needs buffers
Well Doug Ford is cutting up the Greenbelt surrounding Toronto so developers can build houses in floodplains and other environmentally sensitive land that he doesn't care about
The flooding problem is only going to get worse from now on in Ontario thanks to Doug Fords neutering of the conservation authority and greenbelt
Perfectly said there. It's to bad those who should won't listen. The flood controls on the Mississippi and location of New Orleans are why Hurricane Katrina was so damaging there. The buffer for floodwaters / storm surges isn't there and the city has removed the ground water, compacting the soils to well below water level.
@@OkQuantum bingo
I visited a renatured stream in Germany only a few months after the renature process. It was spring.
There were uncountable numbers of young minnows swarming The shallow water. The bullhead and lamprey returned (adults, must have populated from elsewhere. Big trouts were hunting the smaller fish.
The ice bird was already feeding its young in the wall that was exposed in the winter floods.
This example showed, just how incredibly fast the animals can return when the habitat is restored.
Living in BC, Canada, your intial "rivers look like this" was just so confusing. Rivers naturally meander on flat land and flow deeper, faster, and straighter in valleys.
This video also doesn't touch on non-permeable surface area. Runoff is increased on agricultural land, but it's dramatically worse on hardened surfaces like roads and parking lots, which makes modern, car-dependent cities extra vulnerable to flash flooding.
It’s honestly such a miracle that the LA river here near me has been left untouched and allowed retain its natural flow
I'm really fascinated by this idea of creating flood banks around the water periphery.
The river Meuse is not pronounced “mews” even in France or Belgium. In the Netherlands is is the Maas and pronounced with a long aaaa.
that also means swamplands and marshlands used to be much more common
Great video! Power of nature is greater than anything else!
It's Complicated is fantastic!
Paraná river is actually very modified since they had to change the direction of its route to create the Itaipu Power Plant... (the 3rd greatest hydroelectric dam in the world built between Paraguay and Brazil)
It is about inevitable that the river isn't going to meander much near where I live. It is at the bottom of a valley, and it is just about flowing over bedrock with a few sand banks here and there. It does not really have the ability to move much at all. Bedrock is rarely more than a meter or two below dirt in the Apalachees, or the Canadian shield, or the Rockies. Water really does not have much opportunity to infiltrate all that deep into the land to start with. Many of theses rivers naturally flood despite being untouched by man, precisely because of that. Those features cover a very large portion of Canada.
Given the time water can remove every kind of Rock. Look at the Grand Canyon
@@harrybruijs2614 True, but this is some of the hardest and oldest rock on the planet. Its basically been there ever since the formation of the planet.
@@jonathanlanglois2742 Norway is also built of granite or the Alpes are but look what ice and water can do. By the way the Appalachians are a very old mountainrange, started as high as the Himalaya and it is not that hard it is Permian sandstone, slate and chalk.
Why do I keep thinking of the intro to East Enders
Wow. That's really interesting!
This is a FABULOUS piece! Much food for thought.
Lovely❤
Beautifully reclaimed
Una relación inteligente, respetuosa y de convivencia con la naturaleza. Entendiendo su funcionamiento y armonizados con el. No luchando
Very informative 👏 👌
In southeast Brazil there's an area where a big river, called Ribeira, was straightened into a huge, long canal, close to the sea, to improve agriculture. It was decades ago.
They have annual floods that are completely insane to me, reaching 60 feet above the usual level, sometimes. Tall bridges are always submerged, every year people that live close to the river have to leave their houses.... It affects a few cities.
Woah thank you for idea 😁
Maybe it’s the hundreds of hours of open world gaming, but I wasn’t confused at all about this. I was aware of the change that’s been exacted in this case…
The Guardian: It's complicated
12 year olds learning this in school: 👁️👄👁️
Yes, here in Lincolnshire, UK, the river Witham, over its last leg from Lincoln to Boston, in the 1600s,was twice the length it currently is, ie, 60 vs 30 miles,it lay like a strand od spaghetti over the fens
Awesome video mate
I hope everyone in NZ especially the Government and Local Councils are watching this especially after the recent devastating flooding....
great video
Makes sense
So cooooool, awesome video
Very nice and informative video. Congratulations.
Nai polu endiaferon
I am quite ignorant about this topic. However, I remember from school times that in some cases rivers were straightened in order to prevent from flooding and win more agricultural land. After seeing this I have more questions.
Was the latter the actual reason, whereas the former was the better marketed one? Did they genuinely think that straightening the river would solve the issue? Were they just short-sighted and acted quickly?
Excellent video a lesson for everyone
in southern scotland rivers were remolded to become fast flowing for hydro power for knitwear mills along with salmon runs to slow then speed up flow. Now with forestry work up stream reducing water holding its resulted in flooding alot more and more damaging. The mills are gone but the river remains the same, the channels and dams used for power and still there or blocked off. Flood defences are being finished at cost of millions but work outside of the towns is not being carried out to reduce flooding so unless done flooding will happen again.
2:01 I'm from south america, and outside urban areas, for me, rivers always looked like this, but with some hydroeletric dams in its pathway.
This was really interesting!
Greetings from Amsterdam!
I think this is for people who have never seen a river…
The bends slow down flow rate different size sentiments gather where they should help filtration
Time to go back to the drawing board & start drawing crooked lines -- again.
River should be meandering. This video is really important 👏
We have built our society by putting Humans first. Nature needs to come first instead in order for Humans and other organic organisms to thrive
No nature does not need to come first. humans need to come first, you dolt. Go off yourself for fertilizer if nature is so much more important
We need to be part of nature rather than separating ourselves from it. I think that’s the key.
@@kx7500 Agreed. But right now it’s money> people> nature