I just did this with the transmission still in the car, I used Lucas transmission slip fix as assembly lube. You'll be taking that housing off again to put in the oil pump gear.
Yes, the oil pump gear needs to be installed prior to final installation and also you have to apply adhesive, but this video isn't about the final installation process... it's about the preload adjustment just like the title reads.
As a heads up, changing your bolt spec will often change your clampling load if you use the same torque spec. Be sure to calculate your new torque spec by comparing your OEM bolts tensile stress as it yields vs the stress of your stronger bolts. Since the stretch will be different plus potentially different modulus of elasticity as well, then you will effectively have the wrong spec on reassembly which can affect your preload measurements as the case distorts differently.
Initial DIY mods thanks for ur comment and I appreciate u watching my video. I agree with most of what u wrote, but perhaps this maybe semantics. Assuming the OE bolt is not as strong as a class 10.9 bolt (I assume this bc the OE bolts necked after several attempts of checking the preload) and I torque the class 10.9 bolt to the same factory torque, the clamping force is the same. The difference is the OE bolt is elongated elastically and the class 10.9 bolt is not elongated, but still provides the same clamping force. If u examine the equation, the only other factor that could effect the clamping force would be the lubricity factor. Obviously, with lubrication your clamping force will rise. I’d also assume the OE’s design their bolted joints similar to the aerospace industry... the torque is set at 70 percent of the yield strength so the bolt doesn’t inelastically fail. I look at torqued bolts as springs and as such perhaps the OE bolts have more compliance compared to the class 10.9’s bc they are elongated elastically. To me, this means the casing is now handling more load w the class 10.9s. Thus, using the class 10.9s maintains a more consistent clamping force in dynamic situations, but of course can the case handle this additional loading. After racing my S2000 competitively I can assure you the case can handle this load distribution.
This is perfect for anyone trying to install the ATS Mission Secondary drive in a AP1, because in order to install the drive you need to replace the AP1 secondary shaft with a AP2 secondary shaft. ppi-ats.com/Gears/Mission%20Final.html
AJ, wonderful vid series here on the rebuilding. Quick question-someone asked if there was a gasket and you said there is only Honda Bond. In the vid, when you assembled the housings, you didn't apply any Honda Bond. Was that because you were still checking shimming correctness? There is something called anaeorbic sealant that is almost the consistency of loctite but is meant to act as a seal. Do you use that, or only a thin bead of the Honda Bond on the case pieces?
Kurt Bennett u r correct. The Honda Bond goes on last. U have to take the trans apart a few times to get the shins correct. I have since switched to Permatex Ultra Gray. It seems to stay softer longer than Honda Bond. Also, the Permatex is available everywhere and a lot more cost effective
There is no gasket between the housings. There is only Honda Bond. As such, make sure prior to final assembly everything is correct... otherwise you will be cleaning a lot of Honda Bond.
isick s2k sorry for the late response... my notifications go to junk mail sometimes. From what I understand, this tapered roller bearing rarely goes bad. Also, what we learned in school is the following, “gears whine, bearings growl”. I hope this helps. Again sorry for the late response.
Toua Xiong honestly, I’ve never tried it, but at 1st glance I think it would b difficult bc of the shifter and checking the preload. If you try pls let me know your results. Also, why didn’t you do this when the transmission was out?
@@RelentlessRacingAJ the preload wouldn't be hard, seeing how you did it , it wasn't attach to the transmission. also once you unbolt the header to the exhaust system and the mount that holds the transmission should be able to pivot a few degree enough to slide the outer case off after you remove the shift. Second of all i never removed the transmission from the car only the engine. and last there was nothing wrong with my transmission till recently it started Wine. I'm not concern with the preload as much as i am with the bearing cause i hear that is what causing a high pitch wine sound the faster you go. There seem to be two bearing and i hear its a common problem with the s2000, i was hoping you have a video of replacing it.
Toua Xiong pls let me know how it goes trying to adjust the preload w the trans in the car. With respect to removing the bearings in the trans tail, those r the most difficult to remove. U need a few specialty bearing separators. Again pls lmk how it goes. Good luck
@@RelentlessRacingAJ who said anything about adjusting the preload while it's in the car. I'm planning to remove the outer casing just like what you did so when I do , if I do do the preload it wouldn't be anything than what your doing. The bearing are worn out, if I need a special tool to replace them, what tool would it be if would I have to take it to the shop to replace the bearing.
Toua Xiong my apologies... ur original question was can u do this in the car. In any case, I have numerous bearing separators and pullers. Since this was so long ago I don’t remember which ones I used. However, it someone that is familiar with bearings sees the bearing configuration they will know what to use to pull it out without damaging the tail assembly. Good luck
Quick question. I am not overhauling the entire transmission, but rather just replacing the tapered roller bearings on the secondary shaft for noise. When I am checking preload do I need to remove the bearing and drive gear off of the rear of the countershaft so that the secondary shaft is only spinning by itself? I ask because my reading is slightly out of spec, but I think it is because it is rotating the couter shaft as well and it probably isn't as high as the reading I am getting. What are your thoughts? I noticed when you checked yours there was nothing in the transmission housing when you bolted the rear housing to it. Thanks in advanced.
Jason Roed sorry for the late reply, but I was pulling motor. Anyway, you are correct... when adjusting the secondary shaft preload the countershaft should not be installed. If the countershaft is installed it will read an incorrect and higher running torque. Case in point, refer to the Bible (OEM service manual, mine is 2000-2009, maybe a different page number in yours) on page 13-54 titled Secondary Shaft Preload Adjustment, the pic shows no countershaft installed and the Bible never mentions anything about the countershaft. I hope this helps.
@@RelentlessRacingAJ Yeah, I ended up pulling the needle bearing and drive gear off the rear of the countershaft and checking it that way. That way when bolted back to the transmission housing, the secondary shaft wasn't engaged to anything. I preemptively ordered several shim sizes that were thicker and thinner than what came out of it so that I would hopefully have the correct size needed to set the preload with the new bearing going in. Good thing I did because I ended up having to go two sizes thinner to get it into specification. It's now already back in the car and the noise is gone. One of the tapered roller bearings on the secondary shaft was severely pitted and the other one didn't look good either. There are three bearings on that secondary shaft if anyone doesn't know (two tapered and one ball bearing). I suggest replacing all three at the same time and all the associated seals. I also replaced the needle bearing on the very rear on the countershaft that sticks through the transmission housing since it was accessible. To answer some previous peoples questions in other comments, I don't think this repair can be done properly and with a long term fix without pulling the transmission from the car. Specifically setting the preload as I don't think you can drop the transmission enough to be able to turn the companion flange two rotations to take the running torque measurement without hitting anything.
Jason Roed I agree this can’t b done in the car, but can’t say w 100% confidence bc I’ve never tried. I replaced all 3 bearings in the tail as well. If I recall correctly, the tail was the hardest to take apart. Nice job on ur transmission. Hopefully, you found my videos helpful.
@@RelentlessRacingAJ It can be done with the transmission in the car, I've done it. The secondary shaft doesn't even put up an inch pound of resistance, so it doesn't make a difference. I was curious so I put my dial torque wrench on the secondary shaft, it didn't even register with the transmission in neutral. The secondary shaft is entirely freewheeling on needle bearings until a synchro is engaged.
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I just did this with the transmission still in the car, I used Lucas transmission slip fix as assembly lube. You'll be taking that housing off again to put in the oil pump gear.
Yes, the oil pump gear needs to be installed prior to final installation and also you have to apply adhesive, but this video isn't about the final installation process... it's about the preload adjustment just like the title reads.
Great video, good help.
As a heads up, changing your bolt spec will often change your clampling load if you use the same torque spec. Be sure to calculate your new torque spec by comparing your OEM bolts tensile stress as it yields vs the stress of your stronger bolts. Since the stretch will be different plus potentially different modulus of elasticity as well, then you will effectively have the wrong spec on reassembly which can affect your preload measurements as the case distorts differently.
Initial DIY mods thanks for ur comment and I appreciate u watching my video. I agree with most of what u wrote, but perhaps this maybe semantics. Assuming the OE bolt is not as strong as a class 10.9 bolt (I assume this bc the OE bolts necked after several attempts of checking the preload) and I torque the class 10.9 bolt to the same factory torque, the clamping force is the same. The difference is the OE bolt is elongated elastically and the class 10.9 bolt is not elongated, but still provides the same clamping force. If u examine the equation, the only other factor that could effect the clamping force would be the lubricity factor. Obviously, with lubrication your clamping force will rise. I’d also assume the OE’s design their bolted joints similar to the aerospace industry... the torque is set at 70 percent of the yield strength so the bolt doesn’t inelastically fail. I look at torqued bolts as springs and as such perhaps the OE bolts have more compliance compared to the class 10.9’s bc they are elongated elastically. To me, this means the casing is now handling more load w the class 10.9s. Thus, using the class 10.9s maintains a more consistent clamping force in dynamic situations, but of course can the case handle this additional loading. After racing my S2000 competitively I can assure you the case can handle this load distribution.
Thanks for the clarification, but what is the brand / model of the torque wrench, thank you
Amine Achir sorry for the late response but I mention the torque wrench brand in the video
This is perfect for anyone trying to install the ATS Mission Secondary drive in a AP1, because in order to install the drive you need to replace the AP1 secondary shaft with a AP2 secondary shaft. ppi-ats.com/Gears/Mission%20Final.html
AJ, wonderful vid series here on the rebuilding. Quick question-someone asked if there was a gasket and you said there is only Honda Bond. In the vid, when you assembled the housings, you didn't apply any Honda Bond. Was that because you were still checking shimming correctness? There is something called anaeorbic sealant that is almost the consistency of loctite but is meant to act as a seal. Do you use that, or only a thin bead of the Honda Bond on the case pieces?
Kurt Bennett u r correct. The Honda Bond goes on last. U have to take the trans apart a few times to get the shins correct. I have since switched to Permatex Ultra Gray. It seems to stay softer longer than Honda Bond. Also, the Permatex is available everywhere and a lot more cost effective
@@RelentlessRacingAJ can the preload be set with the transmission in the car?
gurjit randhawa no
AJ JAQUIAS does the tail shaft need to be connected to the middle section to get the running preload ?
Never mind watched the video with kids not around got the answer ! Thanks for video !
might be dumb question but could the preload be set with transmission in the car ?
That's what I wanna know too
Honestly, I don't know bc I have never tried it that way. If you try it and are successful pls share with everyone
Yes it can, the secondary shaft offers no meaningful resistance, I just did it.
There is no gasket between the housings. There is only Honda Bond. As such, make sure prior to final assembly everything is correct... otherwise you will be cleaning a lot of Honda Bond.
is that the bearing that makes the wining noise on some s2k?
isick s2k sorry for the late response... my notifications go to junk mail sometimes. From what I understand, this tapered roller bearing rarely goes bad. Also, what we learned in school is the following, “gears whine, bearings growl”. I hope this helps. Again sorry for the late response.
Is there no gasket between the housings?
No gasket between the housings. There is only Honda bond.
Can I do this with the transmission still in the car?
Toua Xiong honestly, I’ve never tried it, but at 1st glance I think it would b difficult bc of the shifter and checking the preload. If you try pls let me know your results. Also, why didn’t you do this when the transmission was out?
@@RelentlessRacingAJ the preload wouldn't be hard, seeing how you did it , it wasn't attach to the transmission. also once you unbolt the header to the exhaust system and the mount that holds the transmission should be able to pivot a few degree enough to slide the outer case off after you remove the shift. Second of all i never removed the transmission from the car only the engine. and last there was nothing wrong with my transmission till recently it started Wine. I'm not concern with the preload as much as i am with the bearing cause i hear that is what causing a high pitch wine sound the faster you go. There seem to be two bearing and i hear its a common problem with the s2000, i was hoping you have a video of replacing it.
Toua Xiong pls let me know how it goes trying to adjust the preload w the trans in the car. With respect to removing the bearings in the trans tail, those r the most difficult to remove. U need a few specialty bearing separators. Again pls lmk how it goes. Good luck
@@RelentlessRacingAJ who said anything about adjusting the preload while it's in the car. I'm planning to remove the outer casing just like what you did so when I do , if I do do the preload it wouldn't be anything than what your doing. The bearing are worn out, if I need a special tool to replace them, what tool would it be if would I have to take it to the shop to replace the bearing.
Toua Xiong my apologies... ur original question was can u do this in the car. In any case, I have numerous bearing separators and pullers. Since this was so long ago I don’t remember which ones I used. However, it someone that is familiar with bearings sees the bearing configuration they will know what to use to pull it out without damaging the tail assembly. Good luck
Quick question. I am not overhauling the entire transmission, but rather just replacing the tapered roller bearings on the secondary shaft for noise. When I am checking preload do I need to remove the bearing and drive gear off of the rear of the countershaft so that the secondary shaft is only spinning by itself? I ask because my reading is slightly out of spec, but I think it is because it is rotating the couter shaft as well and it probably isn't as high as the reading I am getting. What are your thoughts? I noticed when you checked yours there was nothing in the transmission housing when you bolted the rear housing to it. Thanks in advanced.
Jason Roed sorry for the late reply, but I was pulling motor. Anyway, you are correct... when adjusting the secondary shaft preload the countershaft should not be installed. If the countershaft is installed it will read an incorrect and higher running torque. Case in point, refer to the Bible (OEM service manual, mine is 2000-2009, maybe a different page number in yours) on page 13-54 titled Secondary Shaft Preload Adjustment, the pic shows no countershaft installed and the Bible never mentions anything about the countershaft. I hope this helps.
@@RelentlessRacingAJ Yeah, I ended up pulling the needle bearing and drive gear off the rear of the countershaft and checking it that way. That way when bolted back to the transmission housing, the secondary shaft wasn't engaged to anything. I preemptively ordered several shim sizes that were thicker and thinner than what came out of it so that I would hopefully have the correct size needed to set the preload with the new bearing going in. Good thing I did because I ended up having to go two sizes thinner to get it into specification. It's now already back in the car and the noise is gone. One of the tapered roller bearings on the secondary shaft was severely pitted and the other one didn't look good either. There are three bearings on that secondary shaft if anyone doesn't know (two tapered and one ball bearing). I suggest replacing all three at the same time and all the associated seals. I also replaced the needle bearing on the very rear on the countershaft that sticks through the transmission housing since it was accessible. To answer some previous peoples questions in other comments, I don't think this repair can be done properly and with a long term fix without pulling the transmission from the car. Specifically setting the preload as I don't think you can drop the transmission enough to be able to turn the companion flange two rotations to take the running torque measurement without hitting anything.
Jason Roed I agree this can’t b done in the car, but can’t say w 100% confidence bc I’ve never tried. I replaced all 3 bearings in the tail as well. If I recall correctly, the tail was the hardest to take apart. Nice job on ur transmission. Hopefully, you found my videos helpful.
@@RelentlessRacingAJ It can be done with the transmission in the car, I've done it. The secondary shaft doesn't even put up an inch pound of resistance, so it doesn't make a difference. I was curious so I put my dial torque wrench on the secondary shaft, it didn't even register with the transmission in neutral. The secondary shaft is entirely freewheeling on needle bearings until a synchro is engaged.
@@rolandotillit2867 LMAO🤣If the running torque of your secondary shaft is out of spec, then you missed the whole point of this video.