PLEASE READ After getting a few comments from some folks saying they don't need to pull anywhere near as hard as I was on the primal rights unit to get good consistency, I decided to revisit this by trying a few cases out by just going to the bottom of the stroke with normal force. By not putting significant amount of force this time, I was coming up about 2 thou short of my old set point. I dialed it 2 clicks deeper and voila, back to my old seating depth setting without the extra effort. My thought process as to why I believe I was unsuccessful with this before is because the unit was brand new and still had some tolerance stacking that needed to be broken in (primal rights states this). Overall I still give the win to the ugly/derraco unit due to the price point for the precision you are getting. Carl is working on something to speed up the process with the ugly/derraco unit. Whenever that gets released I will make a part 3 speed test.
Thanks for the comparison view. You have some really nice equipment there! Funny, I just received my PCPS from Carl a few days ago, and was unwrapping it tonight. I’m really impressed with the quality of the machining, and hope it holds up over time as well as the Primal Rights unit, which I considered a few years ago when it was in the $500 range, but now it’s just too pricy for me. I can’t use the PCPS on my Co-ax, but have a Lee Classic Cast ready for decapping and priming. I think more and more people will be discovering this new press priming system. I also saw another video where the CPCS had less play in the Dillon primer tubes than did the CPS. FYI I also got the Derraco shell holders for this that are superior tolerances over the regular Lee hand prime shell holders, and am impressed with those as well. Thanks again! 👍
You are going to love it! it has a much different feel than the primal rights unit, the press gives it alot more leverage. Going straight to the PCPS from the Primal rights it felt like I seated it really deep and scared me for a second til I had to pause to double check. The first video I made I showed the primer tube sloppiness between both units and its dramatic. I primed some brass for my buddy the other day and I used the primal rights and I knocked the primer tube off and primers went flying everywhere, not a good feeling. I also have the derraco shell holders as well, I used it on the pcps in this video and I used a lee #4 on the primal rights. Not sure if the tighter tolerances translates into enhanced precision as you saw I still got very good consistency with the primal rights, but I do like the derraco shell holders more just for the fact they have the bolt face type written right on it. Thank you for the kind words thank you for watching!!!
@@BenchrestBraxton Thanks for the info! I guess it was your video that I saw then. I have a Dillon 550B and a bunch of primer tubes so am good to go there. By the way, I have the cheaper Hornady comparator set, and some Sinclair inserts, but for only $58 also ordered the Derraco comparator kit, which is a tremendous value for what you get, really great quality.
Personally, both these rely on consistency of the rim and extractor groove. You could do just about as well with a $25 ram prime as far as consistency. But the Sinclair tool is based on the base which we also use for uniforming. I use an RCBS hand primer, set them proud, then final seat them with the Sinclair tool using metal shims for depth changes. Thank you for your thoughts on this unit. It looks like a great product.
alot of the BR guys swear by their hand primers but I just can't get over the fact that you need to single load them. I came from a RCBS hand primer that at least had the tray, and I shutter at the thought of priming 100 cases in a row with that after using these units. I have yet to fight with getting good consistency with peterson/adg/alpha/lapua. I would imagine using lower grade brass the rim/extractor measurements would pose a much larger issue with these seaters. Thanks for watching and I appreciate your input!
@@BenchrestBraxton that’s why I initially searched shallow with the RCBS then seat again to final depth with the Sinclair. It’s pretty amazing. Thanks for putting out the video!
I bought one from Carl when they were first released. It is very consistent to the point where any variation in seating depth can be correlated to a variation in case rim thickness. There is nothing else at its price point that offers the speed and consistency.
Very nice reloading room setup. But noticing a lot of flex in your workbench. For this test I doubt has any impact, have you noticed in other issues with reloading consistency? Scale balance during multitasking?
I usually have the primal rights unit on the other far side closer to the supports, I only moved it to the middle to have both units in view for the video. I was surprised to see the amount of flex as well once I saw the video. The table with the scales is separate table from the presses for this reason, I didn't want any vibrations coming to them while working on something else.
Thanks for the comparison. I purchased one from Amazon along with their shell holders. Also got my hands on a real cheap RCBS partner press. Have yet to try the RCBS partner press but I suspect it will be suitable. My concern is leverage. Been eyeing the ugly annealer and undecided between it and the quick anneal induction one. The Amp is out of my budget. Again good video comparing the consistency of the 2.
you will have plenty of leverage on that press. I hear alot of good things about the ugly annealer, but I personally have an AMP, and don't ever see myself going to flame annealing from induction. good luck in your decision, thank you for watching!
please private message me if you would like a direct line to ugly reloading USA's personal cell phone if you have any questions, comments, suggestions. you can also call ugly reloading USA's shop number as well. Carl is absolutely fantastic to work with and the customer support is top notch.
I didn't have the budget for the AMP, and the Quick Anneal is a great unit but still ends up being about half the cost of the AMP when shipped from South Africa, so for the volume I shoot I went with the Ugly and am really pleased with the features, setup, footprint, and quality. It comes with every size cartridge insert most people need, and the only thing I added was a 3' propane hose to run from the torch back to the propane bottle with it's own valve to make it more flexible and manageable and easier to move around. The adjustments are simple, and after watching a couple of videos I'm careful not to over anneal, just barely getting the neck and shoulder to start to glow instead of lighting it up. I can easily do a batch of 120 or more .308 cartridges at a time, and it rotates the cases quickly with a diamond coated wheel so that the single torch covers the case very well. I already had the same Bernzomatic pencil torch they recommend, but went ahead and bought the extra with the unit to have a dedicated one for the machine, so total cost was just over $300; it would have been just $289 without the torch, which can't be beat. Assembly and reading the manual took maybe 1/2 hour. Carl at Ugly is also always willing to spend time on the phone to step you through any issues. Honestly, if I shot enough and could justify it I'd get an AMP and never look back, but I like that I can load this up with a hundred plus cases and set the torch and just watch it run through them with very consistent and repeatable results. I think that the Ugly is the one of the best of the flame annealers; the EP is OK, but no hopper, and I believe this is thought out better. Not as pricy or overbuilt as the Bench Source, but works better with just a single torch IMO. And I'm also looking ahead, and if I ever do get an AMP or Quick Anneal I think this one will be very easy to sell.
I own both systems as well, you certainly dont need to pull down that hard on the CPS. I can use 2-3 fingers on the lever (I use the ball). You have flex in your table...
i've tried pulling half as hard and i come up about a thou or two short. i usually prime on the far fight station where there isn't as much flex (closer to the support leg) and still occurs. what i do now gives me perfect consistency, maybe i need to fart around with it again
Braxton, awesome review - thank you for your time. I see you have a Zero Press => I have the hybrid turret on mine due to the 1 1/4' dies I am using. With the PCPS installed, will the turret still be able to completely rotate 360 degrees?
i checked just for you, the way I have mine configured it clears the whole way around no problem. Depending on how far you have the die screwed into the press, worst case you will just need to lift up a little bit on the floating primer seating rod that sticks out the bottom. Hope this helps (:
Now I’ll round out with a few horror stories - {these are not meant to scare you away from reloading but rather to encourage you to always follow all the safety precautions and heed the warnings in the manuals for a safe and long Handloading journey}. Any Shoot Will Do, The A-Square Handloading and Rifle Manual, page 16: Let’s start with guys who didn’t read the safety chapter. All of these are real incidents involving experienced reloaders. #1, A commercial handloader producing handgun cartridges in quantity used to begin his day by filling a coffee can with primers to pour into the machine. He would pull out each tray and, with a flick of the wrist, empty it into the can. One day he used too much flick: one primer went off, initiating a chain reaction that filled the air with shrapnel and cost him both his eyes." [a commercial reloader that thought about how many rounds he had loaded and never had a problem whereby he did not bother with safety or safety glasses, until one day he wished he had taken heed to the warnings, but it was too late by then.] The Complete Handloader, John Wootters, page 37: The Power of Primers Never under estimate the potency of priming compounds. ... a workman at a priming manufacturing facility was carrying a bucket of loose primers ... and the whole bucket detonated. ... they never found any part of the workman except his shoes. An acquaintance of mine had ... about a hundred rifle primers detonate in a plastic medicine vial in his left hand. He lost his hand and the sight in his left eye, and he underwent a series of operations for cosmetic repairs to his face, arm, and upper body, suffering a great deal of pain, a staggering financial setback, and the loss of part of his livelihood. He was a gunsmith. Primer Precautions Such tragedies illustrate the inherent explosive power of small-arms primers, but they can be avoided totally by understanding and adhering to a few simple precautions. The first is never store primers in any kind of container other than the original factory packaging. The second is go back and reread that last sentence several times. Do not keep live primers, however few, loose in any sort of miscellaneous container, and most especially not one made of glass. A fellow TH-camr told a story of hand priming in his Lazyboy chair when one went off. They found the lid to the primer tray stuck in the ceiling above the chair. According to the story it had just missed his face. So be extra sure not to have it aimed at your face when hand priming with these tools. And safety glasses would be a very good idea as mentioned throughout all the reloading manual over and over again.
following basic safety precautions will ensure a lifetime of very low risk reloading. Safety glasses won't save you from carrying a bucket of live primers, but it will protect your precious vision in case of an accidental detonation during a priming op. Again, its something so easy to do, yet alot of us take it for granted that nothing weird will ever happen.
Looks like a great product. I always found the pricing of the primal rights unit to be a bit silly. Also how he talked about his primer seating tool being able to shrink otherwise tuned groups by half or more was kind of absurd. I'm in Canada and just tried to order one through Derraco and the price after their $100 dollar shipping fee was $330USD. I'm not willing to pay that kind of premium.
@@BenchrestBraxton It might be because they're shipping from Australia rather than drop shipping it from the USA? If the company isn't used to shipping internationally it can be a real pain ordering from outside the country because all kinds of fees can be added depending on which company does the shipping. I generally don't order anything from the US unless it's shipped USPS these days as through FEDEX/UPS/DHL I've had $100 items show up with $65 in brokerage fees. Appreciate the effort in any case!
primer tubes can and have blown up. what do you want to be wearing when a metal tube with a bunch of primers inside goes off next to your face? always set a good example.
I see no point in spending many hundreds of dollars on a system that’s rim thickness dependent. For hunting/plinking loads I used the Frankfort Arsenal hand primer & for Benchrest comps I use the Sinclair. I’ve got to hand it to primal rights , he’s making a lot of money off of people who believe by spending that much they are getting something v special 🤣
PLEASE READ
After getting a few comments from some folks saying they don't need to pull anywhere near as hard as I was on the primal rights unit to get good consistency, I decided to revisit this by trying a few cases out by just going to the bottom of the stroke with normal force.
By not putting significant amount of force this time, I was coming up about 2 thou short of my old set point. I dialed it 2 clicks deeper and voila, back to my old seating depth setting without the extra effort.
My thought process as to why I believe I was unsuccessful with this before is because the unit was brand new and still had some tolerance stacking that needed to be broken in (primal rights states this).
Overall I still give the win to the ugly/derraco unit due to the price point for the precision you are getting.
Carl is working on something to speed up the process with the ugly/derraco unit. Whenever that gets released I will make a part 3 speed test.
I noticed the same issue when my cps was new. No problems now.
Derraco also said they are working on a new design they would seat relative to the case head rather than the rim. That makes me happy.
Thanks for the comparison view. You have some really nice equipment there! Funny, I just received my PCPS from Carl a few days ago, and was unwrapping it tonight. I’m really impressed with the quality of the machining, and hope it holds up over time as well as the Primal Rights unit, which I considered a few years ago when it was in the $500 range, but now it’s just too pricy for me. I can’t use the PCPS on my Co-ax, but have a Lee Classic Cast ready for decapping and priming. I think more and more people will be discovering this new press priming system. I also saw another video where the CPCS had less play in the Dillon primer tubes than did the CPS.
FYI I also got the Derraco shell holders for this that are superior tolerances over the regular Lee hand prime shell holders, and am impressed with those as well. Thanks again! 👍
You are going to love it! it has a much different feel than the primal rights unit, the press gives it alot more leverage.
Going straight to the PCPS from the Primal rights it felt like I seated it really deep and scared me for a second til I had to pause to double check.
The first video I made I showed the primer tube sloppiness between both units and its dramatic. I primed some brass for my buddy the other day and I used the primal rights and I knocked the primer tube off and primers went flying everywhere, not a good feeling.
I also have the derraco shell holders as well, I used it on the pcps in this video and I used a lee #4 on the primal rights.
Not sure if the tighter tolerances translates into enhanced precision as you saw I still got very good consistency with the primal rights, but I do like the derraco shell holders more just for the fact they have the bolt face type written right on it.
Thank you for the kind words thank you for watching!!!
@@BenchrestBraxton Thanks for the info! I guess it was your video that I saw then. I have a Dillon 550B and a bunch of primer tubes so am good to go there. By the way, I have the cheaper Hornady comparator set, and some Sinclair inserts, but for only $58 also ordered the Derraco comparator kit, which is a tremendous value for what you get, really great quality.
@@E.L.RipleyAtNostromo I need to get a video up on the comparator set next, the quality and value of that kit is second to none!
Personally, both these rely on consistency of the rim and extractor groove. You could do just about as well with a $25 ram prime as far as consistency.
But the Sinclair tool is based on the base which we also use for uniforming. I use an RCBS hand primer, set them proud, then final seat them with the Sinclair tool using metal shims for depth changes.
Thank you for your thoughts on this unit. It looks like a great product.
alot of the BR guys swear by their hand primers but I just can't get over the fact that you need to single load them. I came from a RCBS hand primer that at least had the tray, and I shutter at the thought of priming 100 cases in a row with that after using these units.
I have yet to fight with getting good consistency with peterson/adg/alpha/lapua. I would imagine using lower grade brass the rim/extractor measurements would pose a much larger issue with these seaters.
Thanks for watching and I appreciate your input!
@@BenchrestBraxton that’s why I initially searched shallow with the RCBS then seat again to final depth with the Sinclair. It’s pretty amazing. Thanks for putting out the video!
*seated
Which Sinclair tool are you referring to ?
Great video. Never heard of this setup. I like the idea of being able to keep it on the zero instead of a different system.
I've been using the PCPS for a few months now, very impressed. SD's in the 3-7 fps range. primers seating very repeatable, I have no complaints.
I bought one from Carl when they were first released. It is very consistent to the point where any variation in seating depth can be correlated to a variation in case rim thickness. There is nothing else at its price point that offers the speed and consistency.
agreed, this unit is a home run!!
@@BenchrestBraxton I use the primer feed tube from a Dillon 750, the pickup tubes are a bit loose for my liking.
Very nice reloading room setup. But noticing a lot of flex in your workbench. For this test I doubt has any impact, have you noticed in other issues with reloading consistency? Scale balance during multitasking?
I usually have the primal rights unit on the other far side closer to the supports, I only moved it to the middle to have both units in view for the video. I was surprised to see the amount of flex as well once I saw the video.
The table with the scales is separate table from the presses for this reason, I didn't want any vibrations coming to them while working on something else.
Thanks for the comparison. I purchased one from Amazon along with their shell holders. Also got my hands on a real cheap RCBS partner press. Have yet to try the RCBS partner press but I suspect it will be suitable. My concern is leverage. Been eyeing the ugly annealer and undecided between it and the quick anneal induction one. The Amp is out of my budget. Again good video comparing the consistency of the 2.
you will have plenty of leverage on that press. I hear alot of good things about the ugly annealer, but I personally have an AMP, and don't ever see myself going to flame annealing from induction.
good luck in your decision, thank you for watching!
please private message me if you would like a direct line to ugly reloading USA's personal cell phone if you have any questions, comments, suggestions.
you can also call ugly reloading USA's shop number as well.
Carl is absolutely fantastic to work with and the customer support is top notch.
I didn't have the budget for the AMP, and the Quick Anneal is a great unit but still ends up being about half the cost of the AMP when shipped from South Africa, so for the volume I shoot I went with the Ugly and am really pleased with the features, setup, footprint, and quality. It comes with every size cartridge insert most people need, and the only thing I added was a 3' propane hose to run from the torch back to the propane bottle with it's own valve to make it more flexible and manageable and easier to move around. The adjustments are simple, and after watching a couple of videos I'm careful not to over anneal, just barely getting the neck and shoulder to start to glow instead of lighting it up. I can easily do a batch of 120 or more .308 cartridges at a time, and it rotates the cases quickly with a diamond coated wheel so that the single torch covers the case very well.
I already had the same Bernzomatic pencil torch they recommend, but went ahead and bought the extra with the unit to have a dedicated one for the machine, so total cost was just over $300; it would have been just $289 without the torch, which can't be beat. Assembly and reading the manual took maybe 1/2 hour. Carl at Ugly is also always willing to spend time on the phone to step you through any issues. Honestly, if I shot enough and could justify it I'd get an AMP and never look back, but I like that I can load this up with a hundred plus cases and set the torch and just watch it run through them with very consistent and repeatable results. I think that the Ugly is the one of the best of the flame annealers; the EP is OK, but no hopper, and I believe this is thought out better. Not as pricy or overbuilt as the Bench Source, but works better with just a single torch IMO. And I'm also looking ahead, and if I ever do get an AMP or Quick Anneal I think this one will be very easy to sell.
I own both systems as well, you certainly dont need to pull down that hard on the CPS. I can use 2-3 fingers on the lever (I use the ball). You have flex in your table...
i've tried pulling half as hard and i come up about a thou or two short. i usually prime on the far fight station where there isn't as much flex (closer to the support leg) and still occurs. what i do now gives me perfect consistency, maybe i need to fart around with it again
check my pinned comment
Greg, the creator of the cps, states to pull hard.
@@Mrjaspgu read my pinned comment, i will be revisiting this
Amazing, I was going to say the exact same thing.
Braxton, awesome review - thank you for your time. I see you have a Zero Press => I have the hybrid turret on mine due to the 1 1/4' dies I am using. With the PCPS installed, will the turret still be able to completely rotate 360 degrees?
i checked just for you, the way I have mine configured it clears the whole way around no problem.
Depending on how far you have the die screwed into the press, worst case you will just need to lift up a little bit on the floating primer seating rod that sticks out the bottom.
Hope this helps (:
Now I’ll round out with a few horror stories - {these are not meant to scare you away from reloading but rather to encourage you to always follow all the safety precautions and heed the warnings in the manuals for a safe and long Handloading journey}.
Any Shoot Will Do, The A-Square Handloading and Rifle Manual, page 16:
Let’s start with guys who didn’t read the safety chapter. All of these are real incidents involving experienced reloaders.
#1, A commercial handloader producing handgun cartridges in quantity used to begin his day by filling a coffee can with primers to pour into the machine. He would pull out each tray and, with a flick of the wrist, empty it into the can. One day he used too much flick: one primer went off, initiating a chain reaction that filled the air with shrapnel and cost him both his eyes." [a commercial reloader that thought about how many rounds he had loaded and never had a problem whereby he did not bother with safety or safety glasses, until one day he wished he had taken heed to the warnings, but it was too late by then.]
The Complete Handloader, John Wootters, page 37:
The Power of Primers
Never under estimate the potency of priming compounds. ... a workman at a priming manufacturing facility was carrying a bucket of loose primers ... and the whole bucket detonated. ... they never found any part of the workman except his shoes.
An acquaintance of mine had ... about a hundred rifle primers detonate in a plastic medicine vial in his left hand. He lost his hand and the sight in his left eye, and he underwent a series of operations for cosmetic repairs to his face, arm, and upper body, suffering a great deal of pain, a staggering financial setback, and the loss of part of his livelihood. He was a gunsmith.
Primer Precautions
Such tragedies illustrate the inherent explosive power of small-arms primers, but they can be avoided totally by understanding and adhering to a few simple precautions. The first is never store primers in any kind of container other than the original factory packaging. The second is go back and reread that last sentence several times. Do not keep live primers, however few, loose in any sort of miscellaneous container, and most especially not one made of glass.
A fellow TH-camr told a story of hand priming in his Lazyboy chair when one went off. They found the lid to the primer tray stuck in the ceiling above the chair. According to the story it had just missed his face. So be extra sure not to have it aimed at your face when hand priming with these tools. And safety glasses would be a very good idea as mentioned throughout all the reloading manual over and over again.
following basic safety precautions will ensure a lifetime of very low risk reloading. Safety glasses won't save you from carrying a bucket of live primers, but it will protect your precious vision in case of an accidental detonation during a priming op. Again, its something so easy to do, yet alot of us take it for granted that nothing weird will ever happen.
@@BenchrestBraxton better safe than sorry.
Looks like a great product. I always found the pricing of the primal rights unit to be a bit silly. Also how he talked about his primer seating tool being able to shrink otherwise tuned groups by half or more was kind of absurd. I'm in Canada and just tried to order one through Derraco and the price after their $100 dollar shipping fee was $330USD. I'm not willing to pay that kind of premium.
let me talk to Carl at ugly reloading USA and see if we can get the shipping price down for you sir
@@BenchrestBraxton It might be because they're shipping from Australia rather than drop shipping it from the USA? If the company isn't used to shipping internationally it can be a real pain ordering from outside the country because all kinds of fees can be added depending on which company does the shipping. I generally don't order anything from the US unless it's shipped USPS these days as through FEDEX/UPS/DHL I've had $100 items show up with $65 in brokerage fees. Appreciate the effort in any case!
@@MMBRM i will let you know
that dollar sign is AUD, not USD, 330AUD=218USD according today's exchange rate
@@feicheng7022 Oh, that's a lot more reasonable. There's no mention of the currency on the page or checkout so assumed it would be USD. Thanks.
You have a TikTok an Ig I can tag you in?
my IG is braxton_pappas
no tiktok, they hate guns and are probably gonna get banned soon lol
Bro, is a real life safety sam..
primer tubes can and have blown up. what do you want to be wearing when a metal tube with a bunch of primers inside goes off next to your face? always set a good example.
@@BenchrestBraxton Id rather be safety Sam than sorry Charlie .
I see no point in spending many hundreds of dollars on a system that’s rim thickness dependent.
For hunting/plinking loads I used the Frankfort Arsenal hand primer & for Benchrest comps I use the Sinclair.
I’ve got to hand it to primal rights , he’s making a lot of money off of people who believe by spending that much they are getting something v special 🤣