I'm lucky enough to own both already. The MF will get you the closest you can get to the OS at half the price. And that's a fact. Grab one while you can.
What i love about Kohle vids is that he teaches you how to listen, he is the best at this. I don't produce metal nowadays (although i still listen to the genre) and still i take away sooo much by his vids, it applies to everything. P.S. I'm starting to dig a lot the "woody/vintage" unusual tones for metal, it's refreshing that's why i loved that marshall tone (the first example). The interesting thing is the tone is going to dictate what genre and how the riffs are going to go, so it would be a challenge if a guitarist/composer uses the tone as a source of inspiration (and limitation), that's how creative/innovative things are made.
Over priced MDF that won't hold up though. I guess for home use it would be ok. Touring might be a problem. I know Kerry King used them, but I'd imagine that was rented backline and also marshall provided products.
@@bayouboattrash well, and any big name touring with one would have a flight case built for it. Also fwiw, a huge majority of the guitar market is home use. Most players rarely play out.
I remember the times when I was in the market for a new 4*12 with V30. I knew a lot different cabs from different backlines playing live and needed one for my own. Long story short: I spent hours in a big store comparing and finally bought the Mesa OS after playing it for 5 minutes. Everything else (Marshall, Engl, Orange..) just felt off back then, harsh etc. I couldnt believe the vast difference and asked several times: "Really, same speakers here?!" Salesman: "Yes". Years later I discovered, he was wrong.. The Mesa just delivered this combination of a smooth top end and right aggression in the higher mids, you mentioned. We are all biased to love this well known sound. I played one cab back then, which killed it for me at a gig: Mesa Halfback 4*12 w EVM12l at the bottom. Incredible. Keep up the good work, Kohle. Greetings!
And now that I've watched it properly, you did a great job matching the tones and I think they'd be excellent L/R in a mix with chuggy, downtuned guitars.
Good luck to anybody actually looking for mode four cabs to begin with. I currently have three of them and snatch them up whenever I can find them at reasonable prices, but it seems that availability has been scarce for the last couple of years now, or people are pricing them right at the same price as used Mesa cabs here in the us. I do love the mode for caps but at the price I'd much rather have the Mesa build quality.
I picked up a MF400 2 weeks ago. Someone already changed out 2 speakers for g12-75s. I took all the speakers out and put in 2 70th anniversary Celestions and 2 Fane/Avatar M65. Sounds killer. Build construction doesn’t match the Mesa but it’s half the price.
Got mine! Got an MF400, and I’ve had a 280 as well. I’ve ended up putting Celestion Alnico Golds in the 400 and it’s an amazing compliment to the OS Mesa
Hey man! Great to have you here. I still haven't gone the Alnico route for metal yet. Just have Alnico magnet speakers in 10" from Jensen. That's a whole new chapter! Any recommendations?
I actually prefer the Marshall in the mix. It's a darker, punchier and to my ears better suited to what I like. Both are excellent. I remember borrowing a Boogie 1x12 thiele cab for a small gig and it blew me away with the size of the sound. I had to keep checking it was really as small and bijou as it was.
Awesome video! As a Mesa 4x12 OS owner, I have a hard time choosing a cab over it, but the Marshall in this slaps. Also, as a viewer I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. Stay Bro0t4L!
Also for what it’s worth, the V30 in the Marshall cab is a phenomenal speaker, and unfortunately not made anymore. You used to be able to buy them, WGS would relabel them and sell them because there was a huge surplus of them at one time, we are talking 10+ years ago. I believe the speaker is a V30 with a 55hz cone vs the 75hz cone that comes in all of the other V30 models. This gives them that “darker” V30 tone. A phenomenal speaker and a phenomenal cabinet all around.
Drums & such are really big on wood types for sound, I'm surprised I've never seen cabs treated in that much of the same manner. Like instead of say 1/4" plywood why not a 1/8" sheet of say birch & an 1/8" outer layer of bubinga? Dang, now I wish I still had my woodworking tools.
The Mode Four cab I've always thought was a sleeper. I've got to record one several years back for a doom metal album with the Mode Four head. It sounded so good!
@@KohleAudioKult it sounds like a Marshall does. The on-board distortion isn't modern enough I think for most. Not that their on-board has been dazzling without a push anyways.. It takes pedals really well. I think it also is contributed to Daron Malakian being endorsed by them at the time. It was considered his amp and it was cool to hate anything related to System of a Down at the time. I'd like to revisit one someday
Also, Angled cabinet’s sound different to straight cab’s, even if just one of the bottom speaker’s are 🎤. The Mode four A sound’s more aggressive than the B 🤷♂️ From the international dimension’s
Very good comparison! it would be interesting to put the two signals side by side (Marshall / mesa) and to reverse phase to see exactly what adds the Mesa compared to the Marshall;)
what's your opinion on ENGL Cabs? They are usually pretty cheap on the used market in germany because they are so many of them. Never saw you using any.
I have 2 Mesa OS cabs with original V30s and I have an early 2000s ENGL OS cab with their V30s and I choose the ENGL every time! Yes I’d love to see a video comparing the old OS ENGL cab with the old OS Mega cab.
Used the 2x12" Vintage cab (Celestion V30) for years since 2004. It's a great and durable cab. Edit: Oh and I have installed 12 cm castor wheels under it, which does affect the sound vs. stock. Kind of like lifting the cab on a chair, it reduces the low bass hump in tone. Makes it a bit tighter sounding.
I never liked the normal Engl V30 cabs, but I can't tell if that was because of the cab, the speakers or the fact that they're front loaded. I did like their XXL cab though. But that was 15 years ago. Maybe I need an update.
@@KohleAudioKult yeah pls engl xxl cab or diezel cabs. I use an ir with diezel cabs it instantly get me to metallica tone, like scooped mids. I wonder how it sounds with real amps and micing cabs
Again such a good video! A comparison done the right way! Somehow I like the slightly darker tone a lot. I think I could be used pretty well to fatten up the sound of the Mesa cab if needed!
i just replaced all the caps and tubes in my 2204 jcm800. I recorded 4 songs with it using a mf-400 cab and a tube screamer ish clone that i made. There was used sm57 at cab and some room mic. LTD ex-401 with EMG and drop c tuning. i'm happy with that sound
These Mode Four cabs are made of multiply birch wood panels. Not MDF/chip/particle board. Open it and look carefully. There is a lot of black spraypaint on the wood but you can see the grain in the wood, also on the back panel. Take out a handle and you will see the multiple layers of wood in the panel.
I have the oversize MF400 G12k-100 slant. One of the best sounding cabs ive ever played. Pair it up with another v30 cab in stereo and It absolutely slays! This cab also sounds similar to the diezel 4x12.
The Marshall cab has that classic Marshall “attitude” to it for lack of a better word. Maybe not quite as tight as the Mesa but not necessarily in a bad way. Sounds like the Marshall has more depth to it in my ears.
it definitely has more interesting resonances in the mids/high mids (that honk kristian is talking about) than the mesa. i also love the exteneded high end from the mesa though
I had both at one time. The MF has slightly less air space also has a vented back style. Also the mf vintage 30 has a different voicing than the regular Marshall v30. Thanks for your review of it. Hopefully the mf made someone a good cab after I sold it. I’m still happy with my rectifier cab
Kristian, thanks great video ! For your stale screws, just drill the head with a metal bit, then with some pliers, you will be able to unscrew it from the cabinet.
Great test again! I like that! But I have another test idea: How does the sound of the speaker change depending on the other speakers in a cabinet? I recently build a 4x12" cab with 4 different speaker. And I bet that the V30 for instance sound different compared to a pure 4xV30 cabinet. Why? Two reasons: 1. If your put two speaker of the same type together in serial they behave like an ideal voltage divider. If both have a different impedance curve (e.g. different resonsance frequency) than theres a frequence dependend voltage divider and speaker one works as kind of EQ to speaker two. This should be bigger as different the impedance curves are (->datasheet) and should be less prominent when connecting the speakers parallel. Parallel means they get the same voltage independently. And even power amplification works with voltage adjustment, not power adjustment. So they suck differnt current of the amp, but the amp should deliver it anyway. In a specific range. But: we dont deal with sinus signals. So the interaction is more statistical and may middle it out. Guitars are more like white noise. 2. Second reason is acoustical interaction. Two speakers are not independent from each others in the same cab. Especially closed ones. If one speaker produces a high pressure in the cabinet by moving inside the other speaker gets a pressure from behind and therefore some dampening because it also wants to move inside at the same time. Shortly spoken two speakers form a kind of one big speaker with one big membrane. And that forms a new speaker with different resonance frequencies. Its not just doubled. Some mechanical forces especially the elasticity of the air behind the speaker is different now. I dont remember any details. Its more than 20 years ago we calculated this at the uni. That's the resaon why a 6x10" bass cab sounds differently - mostly much deeper - than a 1x10". 6x10 is not just 6 times a 1x10". So my suggestion would be: - a close 2x12" cabinet - both speakers serially connected - use 2xSpeaker A and listen - than replace the second speaker with a type with a different inpedance curve and listen again Than you can variate this setting. Parallel connection. Open cab. etc. Metallic greetings Thomas
Hey Kristian! Just curious, are you sure the MF400 you have is MDF wood? I own 2 of the mf400 and 2 mdf280 and all 4 are made of birch ply. Just curious, as this would present some interesting info I wasn't aware of, i.e, Marshall made all MDF mode four cabs at one point
@@KohleAudioKult Let’s have that one up next then!! That’s a great apple to apple comparison that’s nowhere on TH-cam. Hopefully the one you’ve got is the full 14 inch deep 112... not the mini recto cabs.
Great video as usual Kohle. The MF400 was a very pleasant surprise. I suggest you to check the PRS 4x12 because in the description says that it's loaded with Celestion Modified Vintage 30, so, maybe are the same as the Mesa ones or a completely new breed. Also, the PRS Archon 50W Head looks (And sound) very promising. It comes with some power tubes that I didn't heard of before (JJ 6CA7) that gives the sound a character between 6L6 and EL34. Again, thanks for this videos.
I've been into metal since o......1988 I guess. Marshall still to this day crushes. I used to have an old 'Park' amp made by them and it was a THRASH MACHINE! It wasn't even a 'good' or 'real' amp and it still crushed. I so badly want to get back into music but I have no support in any way. I wish I could. Love your channel man.
I always thought the Mode 4 cab was Marshall's best cab. I sold mine years ago and wish I had hung onto that cab. I did not have room for to many cabs at the time. Now I have plenty of room go figure lol. I often used the MF cab with the Boogie Roadster that cab just made the dark voice of the Boogie come alive. The K100 speakers had something that the V30 did not have from what I remember. As usual great video Kristian.
I dont believe the cabinet can do something to the hi-mids/highs response of the speakers in close mic'ing. The chaotic nature of mic placement is the thing i tend to believe in more: milimeters makes huge difference.
yes, but the segeborn vid is close mic aswell. i will make some home tests trying to match the position of 1 or 2 mics several times on the same cab and see if they sound identical. I think i remember it being very difficult to match. about the in the room sound, yes..cabinet, resonances and the directivity pattern and phase 3d things changes everything on the spectrum. I think i have a quite trained ear, mixing, playing for 20years, or maybe not, because once i was a/b'ing a mesa 2x12 vertical slant cabinet vs a harley benton 2x12 and I was unable to detect any difference 3m away, not one, but i had a lag of 5 seconds bacause of the rewiring. and i know mesa have the magical UK celestions, but it was the same for me. or maybe my ears were only honest. i need a test like this one or the segeborn one but with the mics 0.5 to 3 meters away from the speaker, we could have a surprise.
@SoundWavesSurfer yes.. i meant that distance only for a in the room sound and eliminate a little bit of the sensibility of mic placement.. not the usual for a recording. i believe you. but i will check if it is that easy to reproduce the close mic placement.
Seems as if the other 3 speakers not being the same could be the perceivable difference. The real test should also swap the three Jensens to the mesa cab during the mesa recording, or all V30s in both cabs. If we say the cabinet matters, then surely the other 3 speakers matter.
Checked the video again. ^^ I really like the mesa. The Marshall is sounding good too. In the past a bandmate hat the Moude Four amp and the cab. As i remember the sound was more open and great attack and good low end. Here the cab sound really more boxy. The amp was a solide state amp and this amps sound often less "dulled" as a full tube amp. So the cab was fitting extreme well to the amp. In the rehearsals i learned the Moude Four half stack is a great made from Marshall. Amazing gain sounds and, for a Marshall not so familar, amazing clean sounds too. In this context with this tube amp the cab show a different side. Great video u made again with lot talking about details like frequemcies.
Hey Christian, great video! Could you do a video on recording with some of the "metal" distortion pedals? Inexpensive ones, like the DOD, Digitech, Boss, etc. pedals. I would be interested to see what you could do with them, get your take on the sound of them.
@@marijandesin8226 Sweetwater isn't selling these new, because they aren't being made any more. Reverb only has two available, one is $1500, the other is $1150 ($800 + $350 shipping). My source: searching for MF400 and Mode 4, not any old Marshall cab.
Old VHT or Fryette I love the P-50. I own a Mesa oversized V-30 from 2001 and the old VHT wins for me almost every time. The Randall XL was the best Mesa Type cab to come out in the past 20 years.
Interesting comparison. Thank you for taking the time to isolate (or at least get close to isolating) so many variables for a good comparison. I use an 80s Mesa Halfback (2xMC-90 + 2xEVM-12) for high gain stuff, which I think sits somewhere in between in tone (mostly micing the MC-90s means closer to your recto than the Marshall). I usually dislike Marshall cabs, so it is interesting to hear one that sounds usable that I can also bring up to people that can't afford (or find) the Mesa of their dreams. Was it just me, or did the Mesa also somehow sound more compressed, for lack of a better term, than the Marshall? Maybe that had to do with slight changes in amp gain or the mics being slightly farther away.
@@KohleAudioKult Nah no shitstorm, you just need to make sure to wear this little Mütze with that collar next time: :www.pugnat.com/shop/cashmere-hat-snail-hat-black/ah4-099
Mesa sounds more mix ready but Marshall is a bit tighter in the mix on the first comparison. Closer on the second one but Marshall still a tad tighter. Something to do with the chip board back?
Surely the Marshall cab sounds great, but not as good as the mesa. Like you've said, matter of taste. But there's not too much difference to get a marshall cab when you have a mesa. By the way one question: Is a cab sounding that much different with or without the wheels? I tried it in my studio and it surely adds some nice low end with the cab straight to the ground...if you want or need that it's kind of nice in my opinion.
I agree there's no need for a Marshall if you already own a Mesa. The wheels will make a difference if you stand right beside the cab, but not for close miking in the studio.
So it sounds like their cabinets are sort of built to sound the inverse of their amps. The marshall amp is dark while the mesa cab is brighter with punch on the mid and higher frequencies.
Wow i see a diezel head there. A diezel cabs would be interesting, i dont own any cabs but i own diezel cabs pack ir and with almost any metal amps, i got instant metallica tone especially master of puppets like scooped mids. And if you like mick thompson speakers, probably jim roots fav cabs, orange cabs would be interesting to give it a shot
Hi Kohle, very interesting video, you've done what we'd like to do, and comparaison is pretty much instructive then I thought ! Could we conclude that the positioning of the microphone can "catch up" with the manufacturing quality of the cabinet ? because you managed to have a very similar result when you freely placed the microphone at the end, a very soft equalization must be able to do the job, right ? After the HP, isn't the positioning the big deal, for modern or vintage sound ? Thank you for sharing your personal questioning. Peace.
Here's my way of getting an oversized cab sound: take a regular Marshall 4x12 model 1960 (which is all plywood, except the back panel is MDF, by the way), get rid of two speakers, cover up the holes with pieces of plywood (you can get the materials at the hardware store), and that way I get an oversized closed back 2x12 cab. Still looks awesome like any 4x12, is lighter to carry, and you can sell the speakers for even more cash! I swear this configuration makes even G12T-75s sound better!
I remember testing that years ago on a production. It didn’t make a significant difference. Two different V30s will make a huge difference in comparison.
Maybe it would be cool to get your hands on some guitar cabinets that are really cheap on the used market, and do the same kind of test. I swear, my crate blue voodoo cab is a real sleeper. All birch, very solid.🤘🏻🤘🏻
i like my blue voodoo cab as well. it doesn't sound the same as a mesa oversized, but it sounds good. i did put v-30's and G12T-75's in it though. I'd really like to get some Jensens or proper eminence's for it. (that cab came with crate branded speakers made by eminence). but it's a high quality cab for sure.
@@slavesforging5361 mine has the speakers that were made for crate by Jensen. I pulled one out and put in a veteran 30, which I chose after hearing it in one of Kohle’s speaker shootouts!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻
![[TH] 2024 PMSL SEA W3D1 | Fall | สัปดาห์ตัดสิน ทีมไปไฟนอล](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/ZBU3GyzqErI/mqdefault.jpg)
Who's gonna get a Marshall MF cab now? Or what's your MESA killer?
Sorry Kohle, I just got the Bogren Digital Rainbows and Chainsaws. I have no use for cabs anymore! 😂🤣👌
I have an old Yamaha 412. Oversized, all birch, baffling in it, and its more like two 212s with how it's divided internally.
MF cabs price bump in 3... 2.... 1....
Coffee Audio custom built cabinets, I have Latte in studio and preffer it over Mesa even it is 2x12.
I'm lucky enough to own both already. The MF will get you the closest you can get to the OS at half the price. And that's a fact. Grab one while you can.
What i love about Kohle vids is that he teaches you how to listen, he is the best at this. I don't produce metal nowadays (although i still listen to the genre) and still i take away sooo much by his vids, it applies to everything.
P.S. I'm starting to dig a lot the "woody/vintage" unusual tones for metal, it's refreshing that's why i loved that marshall tone (the first example). The interesting thing is the tone is going to dictate what genre and how the riffs are going to go, so it would be a challenge if a guitarist/composer uses the tone as a source of inspiration (and limitation), that's how creative/innovative things are made.
Very interesting thought! Thank you.
Theres something about the low end in the Marshall i hear the bass guitar more prominently when the full band kicked in and i like that
Definitely. Shines in the mix
It's kind of crazy how much of a difference there is. Both sound amazing.
And suddenly the MF cabinets rose in price on reverb... :-P
Over priced MDF that won't hold up though. I guess for home use it would be ok. Touring might be a problem. I know Kerry King used them, but I'd imagine that was rented backline and also marshall provided products.
@@bayouboattrash well, and any big name touring with one would have a flight case built for it. Also fwiw, a huge majority of the guitar market is home use. Most players rarely play out.
@@bayouboattrashyou have not informed yourself properly on the MF cabs.
Full multiply birch, no MDF or particle board.
I have both cabs and the Mesa kills it..just saying..rock on🤘
Kerry King has been using Mode Four cabs since the early 2000's I believe.
yes, he has!
Not sure if he still does because I havent looked up his current rig, but Dave Navarro used Mode Four cabs as well.
Nice ! Cold beer already in hands! Now let's watch !
Fantastic comparrison. I will definitely buy the Marshall for my 6505.
Cool, now we can all sound the same using different gear.
Not a jab at you, love your videos.
this vid just reassured my love for the mesa 4x12
I remember the times when I was in the market for a new 4*12 with V30. I knew a lot different cabs from different backlines playing live and needed one for my own. Long story short: I spent hours in a big store comparing and finally bought the Mesa OS after playing it for 5 minutes. Everything else (Marshall, Engl, Orange..) just felt off back then, harsh etc. I couldnt believe the vast difference and asked several times: "Really, same speakers here?!" Salesman: "Yes". Years later I discovered, he was wrong.. The Mesa just delivered this combination of a smooth top end and right aggression in the higher mids, you mentioned. We are all biased to love this well known sound.
I played one cab back then, which killed it for me at a gig: Mesa Halfback 4*12 w EVM12l at the bottom. Incredible.
Keep up the good work, Kohle. Greetings!
And now that I've watched it properly, you did a great job matching the tones and I think they'd be excellent L/R in a mix with chuggy, downtuned guitars.
I was thinking that too
Good luck to anybody actually looking for mode four cabs to begin with. I currently have three of them and snatch them up whenever I can find them at reasonable prices, but it seems that availability has been scarce for the last couple of years now, or people are pricing them right at the same price as used Mesa cabs here in the us. I do love the mode for caps but at the price I'd much rather have the Mesa build quality.
Just snagged an mf400 today and looking at another. I LOVE these things. I sold one years ago and hated myself for it
Had my Mode four cab for 15 years.
Kill’s 🤘
I am very happy with my MF400A cab. Old school DM sound
I picked up a MF400 2 weeks ago. Someone already changed out 2 speakers for g12-75s. I took all the speakers out and put in 2 70th anniversary Celestions and 2 Fane/Avatar M65. Sounds killer. Build construction doesn’t match the Mesa but it’s half the price.
Got mine! Got an MF400, and I’ve had a 280 as well. I’ve ended up putting Celestion Alnico Golds in the 400 and it’s an amazing compliment to the OS Mesa
What’s the difference between the 280 vs 400?
@@ithebastardking2800 the speakers used - the 280 uses marshall voiced v30s , the 400 uses k100's.
Hey man! Great to have you here. I still haven't gone the Alnico route for metal yet. Just have Alnico magnet speakers in 10" from Jensen. That's a whole new chapter!
Any recommendations?
@@KohleAudioKult alnico is dark. I have 1 12" gold and its not fizzy at all.
I actually prefer the Marshall in the mix. It's a darker, punchier and to my ears better suited to what I like. Both are excellent. I remember borrowing a Boogie 1x12 thiele cab for a small gig and it blew me away with the size of the sound. I had to keep checking it was really as small and bijou as it was.
I like the Mesa still lol sounds like it has more resonance.
Following this video, I see ONE MF400, for $1500. HA! Great job as always. I absolutely love your content dude!
Great comparison! I preferred the Marshall Solod but preferred the Mesa a lot more in the mix!
The Mode Four cab was insane back in the 2000s.
I just did a video about it! Have a look!
I'd like to hear it with straight vs straight cabs. That way it truly would be apple to apples. Love what your doin' bro. Keep doin' it! 🤘🔥🤘
The old Randall Warhead cabs was oversized
The 4x12 and the 2x15 cabs was brutal
Soooo... we're listening to furniture now? jk, thanks for doing this.
Haha! But yeah, we are!
I've been rocking a Mode 4 cab for 12 years now! I've had people ask me to buy it after a gig many times.
Great videos I like the behind the scene aspect of recording I could watch videos all day
Nice video and great attention to detail
Good experience, thank you for sharing!
The spectrogram screenshots would help visualize the information for comparison.
I understood everything from what was said in the video, but the spectra would display the full frequency picture.
i like marshall most. i like it because is a littlte darker and middy
Kerry King from Slayer do use Mode Four Cabs too.
That Mesa cab is amazing!! King of the hill for sure!
Awesome video!
As a Mesa 4x12 OS owner, I have a hard time choosing a cab over it, but the Marshall in this slaps.
Also, as a viewer I appreciate all the hard work you put into your videos. Stay Bro0t4L!
Also for what it’s worth, the V30 in the Marshall cab is a phenomenal speaker, and unfortunately not made anymore. You used to be able to buy them, WGS would relabel them and sell them because there was a huge surplus of them at one time, we are talking 10+ years ago. I believe the speaker is a V30 with a 55hz cone vs the 75hz cone that comes in all of the other V30 models. This gives them that “darker” V30 tone. A phenomenal speaker and a phenomenal cabinet all around.
Dieser Kragen macht mich fertig :D
Bonzekeller Studio. Live aus Othmarschen
Dracula anyone?
Drums & such are really big on wood types for sound, I'm surprised I've never seen cabs treated in that much of the same manner. Like instead of say 1/4" plywood why not a 1/8" sheet of say birch & an 1/8" outer layer of bubinga? Dang, now I wish I still had my woodworking tools.
I have the MF350 half stack. I LOVE IT!! Playing down in the shallow end ( drop A and B standard) is so gratifying.
very helpful. I'm a little late to the party tho.
either one will work for me!
The Mode Four cab I've always thought was a sleeper. I've got to record one several years back for a doom metal album with the Mode Four head. It sounded so good!
Does the MF head sound fuzzy?
I can't remember why it was so wrong for the metal community back then.
@@KohleAudioKult it sounds like a Marshall does. The on-board distortion isn't modern enough I think for most. Not that their on-board has been dazzling without a push anyways.. It takes pedals really well. I think it also is contributed to Daron Malakian being endorsed by them at the time. It was considered his amp and it was cool to hate anything related to System of a Down at the time. I'd like to revisit one someday
Also, Angled cabinet’s sound different to straight cab’s, even if just one of the bottom speaker’s are 🎤. The Mode four A sound’s more aggressive than the B 🤷♂️ From the international dimension’s
Very good comparison!
it would be interesting to put the two signals side by side (Marshall / mesa) and to reverse phase to see exactly what adds the Mesa compared to the Marshall;)
The mic position is not precise enough for a null test.
@@KohleAudioKult ok 😕
Good lord in heaven they do sound different but they both sound soooooo killer!!! Cheers man! I love your channel, you kick ass!
Daumen und Kragen hoch! 😁
16,000- nok here in Norway for a Mesa cab and no used Mode 4 cabs, but I've seen them go for as little as 1000
I think this is what Slayer use !
Yes!
great review i currently use 2 mesa 4x12 and am looking for anither cab ,im on the hunt for the marshall now
what's your opinion on ENGL Cabs? They are usually pretty cheap on the used market in germany because they are so many of them. Never saw you using any.
I have 2 Mesa OS cabs with original V30s and I have an early 2000s ENGL OS cab with their V30s and I choose the ENGL every time! Yes I’d love to see a video comparing the old OS ENGL cab with the old OS Mega cab.
Used the 2x12" Vintage cab (Celestion V30) for years since 2004. It's a great and durable cab. Edit: Oh and I have installed 12 cm castor wheels under it, which does affect the sound vs. stock. Kind of like lifting the cab on a chair, it reduces the low bass hump in tone. Makes it a bit tighter sounding.
I never liked the normal Engl V30 cabs, but I can't tell if that was because of the cab, the speakers or the fact that they're front loaded. I did like their XXL cab though. But that was 15 years ago. Maybe I need an update.
@@KohleAudioKult yeah pls engl xxl cab or diezel cabs. I use an ir with diezel cabs it instantly get me to metallica tone, like scooped mids.
I wonder how it sounds with real amps and micing cabs
@@KohleAudioKult Any reason you prefer a rear loaded cab over a front loaded one?
Fantastic video, brotha!!
Again such a good video! A comparison done the right way!
Somehow I like the slightly darker tone a lot. I think I could be used pretty well to fatten up the sound of the Mesa cab if needed!
from the year of 2005 my constant fav cab is the mf400b
i just replaced all the caps and tubes in my 2204 jcm800. I recorded 4 songs with it using a mf-400 cab and a tube screamer ish clone that i made. There was used sm57 at cab and some room mic. LTD ex-401 with EMG and drop c tuning. i'm happy with that sound
These Mode Four cabs are made of multiply birch wood panels.
Not MDF/chip/particle board.
Open it and look carefully. There is a lot of black spraypaint on the wood but you can see the grain in the wood, also on the back panel.
Take out a handle and you will see the multiple layers of wood in the panel.
I really like the mesa 4x12 straight. If dialed in right u can still get great mids from it. Just sounds more meaty to me
I have the oversize MF400 G12k-100 slant. One of the best sounding cabs ive ever played. Pair it up with another v30 cab in stereo and It absolutely slays! This cab also sounds similar to the diezel 4x12.
The Marshall cab has that classic Marshall “attitude” to it for lack of a better word. Maybe not quite as tight as the Mesa but not necessarily in a bad way. Sounds like the Marshall has more depth to it in my ears.
Chipwood is softer, so it absorbs higher frequencies
it definitely has more interesting resonances in the mids/high mids (that honk kristian is talking about) than the mesa. i also love the exteneded high end from the mesa though
Awesome demo comparison!!
Thanks!!
I had both at one time. The MF has slightly less air space also has a vented back style. Also the mf vintage 30 has a different voicing than the regular Marshall v30. Thanks for your review of it. Hopefully the mf made someone a good cab after I sold it. I’m still happy with my rectifier cab
Kristian, thanks great video ! For your stale screws, just drill the head with a metal bit, then with some pliers, you will be able to unscrew it from the cabinet.
Thanks! That's pretty much exactly what I did
Great test again! I like that!
But I have another test idea:
How does the sound of the speaker change depending on the other speakers in a cabinet?
I recently build a 4x12" cab with 4 different speaker. And I bet that the V30 for instance sound different compared to a pure 4xV30 cabinet.
Why? Two reasons:
1. If your put two speaker of the same type together in serial they behave like an ideal voltage divider. If both have a different impedance curve (e.g. different resonsance frequency) than theres a frequence dependend voltage divider and speaker one works as kind of EQ to speaker two. This should be bigger as different the impedance curves are (->datasheet) and should be less prominent when connecting the speakers parallel. Parallel means they get the same voltage independently. And even power amplification works with voltage adjustment, not power adjustment. So they suck differnt current of the amp, but the amp should deliver it anyway. In a specific range.
But: we dont deal with sinus signals. So the interaction is more statistical and may middle it out. Guitars are more like white noise.
2. Second reason is acoustical interaction. Two speakers are not independent from each others in the same cab. Especially closed ones. If one speaker produces a high pressure in the cabinet by moving inside the other speaker gets a pressure from behind and therefore some dampening because it also wants to move inside at the same time.
Shortly spoken two speakers form a kind of one big speaker with one big membrane. And that forms a new speaker with different resonance frequencies. Its not just doubled. Some mechanical forces especially the elasticity of the air behind the speaker is different now. I dont remember any details. Its more than 20 years ago we calculated this at the uni.
That's the resaon why a 6x10" bass cab sounds differently - mostly much deeper - than a 1x10". 6x10 is not just 6 times a 1x10".
So my suggestion would be:
- a close 2x12" cabinet
- both speakers serially connected
- use 2xSpeaker A and listen
- than replace the second speaker with a type with a different inpedance curve and listen again
Than you can variate this setting. Parallel connection. Open cab. etc.
Metallic greetings Thomas
Hey Kristian! Just curious, are you sure the MF400 you have is MDF wood? I own 2 of the mf400 and 2 mdf280 and all 4 are made of birch ply. Just curious, as this would present some interesting info I wasn't aware of, i.e, Marshall made all MDF mode four cabs at one point
Can we shoot out the Mesa Recto 412 vs. the Recto 112? I bet you can put some old theories to rest about 112s not living up to the full size.
We have a 1x12" here. I could do that.
@@KohleAudioKult Let’s have that one up next then!! That’s a great apple to apple comparison that’s nowhere on TH-cam. Hopefully the one you’ve got is the full 14 inch deep 112... not the mini recto cabs.
Great video as usual Kohle. The MF400 was a very pleasant surprise. I suggest you to check the PRS 4x12 because in the description says that it's loaded with Celestion Modified Vintage 30, so, maybe are the same as the Mesa ones or a completely new breed. Also, the PRS Archon 50W Head looks (And sound) very promising. It comes with some power tubes that I didn't heard of before (JJ 6CA7) that gives the sound a character between 6L6 and EL34. Again, thanks for this videos.
Really? I'll look into that!
Great experiment mate, the two together sound ace.
I've been into metal since o......1988 I guess. Marshall still to this day crushes. I used to have an old 'Park' amp made by them and it was a THRASH MACHINE! It wasn't even a 'good' or 'real' amp and it still crushed. I so badly want to get back into music but I have no support in any way. I wish I could. Love your channel man.
I REALLY liked the way the Marshall sounded, and I already own the Mesa haha
I always thought the Mode 4 cab was Marshall's best cab. I sold mine years ago and wish I had hung onto that cab. I did not have room for to many cabs at the time. Now I have plenty of room go figure lol. I often used the MF cab with the Boogie Roadster that cab just made the dark voice of the Boogie come alive. The K100 speakers had something that the V30 did not have from what I remember. As usual great video Kristian.
I dont believe the cabinet can do something to the hi-mids/highs response of the speakers in close mic'ing. The chaotic nature of mic placement is the thing i tend to believe in more: milimeters makes huge difference.
yes, but the segeborn vid is close mic aswell. i will make some home tests trying to match the position of 1 or 2 mics several times on the same cab and see if they sound identical. I think i remember it being very difficult to match. about the in the room sound, yes..cabinet, resonances and the directivity pattern and phase 3d things changes everything on the spectrum.
I think i have a quite trained ear, mixing, playing for 20years, or maybe not, because once i was a/b'ing a mesa 2x12 vertical slant cabinet vs a harley benton 2x12 and I was unable to detect any difference 3m away, not one, but i had a lag of 5 seconds bacause of the rewiring. and i know mesa have the magical UK celestions, but it was the same for me. or maybe my ears were only honest.
i need a test like this one or the segeborn one but with the mics 0.5 to 3 meters away from the speaker, we could have a surprise.
@SoundWavesSurfer yes.. i meant that distance only for a in the room sound and eliminate a little bit of the sensibility of mic placement.. not the usual for a recording. i believe you. but i will check if it is that easy to reproduce the close mic placement.
Seems as if the other 3 speakers not being the same could be the perceivable difference. The real test should also swap the three Jensens to the mesa cab during the mesa recording, or all V30s in both cabs. If we say the cabinet matters, then surely the other 3 speakers matter.
Checked the video again. ^^
I really like the mesa. The Marshall is sounding good too.
In the past a bandmate hat the Moude Four amp and the cab. As i remember the sound was more open and great attack and good low end. Here the cab sound really more boxy. The amp was a solide state amp and this amps sound often less "dulled" as a full tube amp. So the cab was fitting extreme well to the amp. In the rehearsals i learned the Moude Four half stack is a great made from Marshall. Amazing gain sounds and, for a Marshall not so familar, amazing clean sounds too. In this context with this tube amp the cab show a different side.
Great video u made again with lot talking about details like frequemcies.
Slayer have been using Mode Four cabs for ages.
Hey Christian, great video! Could you do a video on recording with some of the "metal" distortion pedals? Inexpensive ones, like the DOD, Digitech, Boss, etc. pedals. I would be interested to see what you could do with them, get your take on the sound of them.
Think the Marshall leaves more room for the top end of the bass to come through
These are listed around $1500 here in the states. Ah well. 😅
@@marijandesin8226 Sweetwater isn't selling these new, because they aren't being made any more. Reverb only has two available, one is $1500, the other is $1150 ($800 + $350 shipping).
My source: searching for MF400 and Mode 4, not any old Marshall cab.
@@marijandesin8226 Yes, I'm talking about the cab that's the subject of the video, a supposedly cheaper alternative to the mesa standard cab
If you're patient you can find them for a lot cheaper. Gear prices are all over the place on Reverb right now.
You just accounted for the straight vs slant config. ALL straight cabs sound more present and darker at the same time than a slant.
In a close miked scenario it doesn't make much of a difference
keep in mind angled vs. straight impacts the sound as well.
Not for the way that I mic.
Old VHT or Fryette I love the P-50. I own a Mesa oversized V-30 from 2001 and the old VHT wins for me almost every time. The Randall XL was the best Mesa Type cab to come out in the past 20 years.
I have always liked Randall cabs with V30s. I’m not sure about the p50, but it has been a while since I have heard one.
@@KohleAudioKult The old school VHT or Fryette Fatbottom Cab with the Eminence P-50's is an awesome sounding cab.
Kerry King uses the Mode 4 cabs. Enough said about it being good for metal
great video Marshall MF 400 has crappy construction but sound pretty damn good
Interesting comparison. Thank you for taking the time to isolate (or at least get close to isolating) so many variables for a good comparison. I use an 80s Mesa Halfback (2xMC-90 + 2xEVM-12) for high gain stuff, which I think sits somewhere in between in tone (mostly micing the MC-90s means closer to your recto than the Marshall). I usually dislike Marshall cabs, so it is interesting to hear one that sounds usable that I can also bring up to people that can't afford (or find) the Mesa of their dreams. Was it just me, or did the Mesa also somehow sound more compressed, for lack of a better term, than the Marshall? Maybe that had to do with slight changes in amp gain or the mics being slightly farther away.
Ich sehe schon auf Ebay Kleinanzeigen, wie die Preise um das doppelte steigen. Fettes Video Kristian!
Gottverdammte Diebe...
Oh Kohle doing some Princess Leia cosplay! Priceless :D
Haha! The collar shitstorm!
@@KohleAudioKult Nah no shitstorm, you just need to make sure to wear this little Mütze with that collar next time: :www.pugnat.com/shop/cashmere-hat-snail-hat-black/ah4-099
I would love to hear what these sound like with the new 2022 V30's.
Mesa sounds more mix ready but Marshall is a bit tighter in the mix on the first comparison. Closer on the second one but Marshall still a tad tighter. Something to do with the chip board back?
Newton's Third law applies here. The more dense the wood the more resonant it is.
I would like to see those cabs unloaded weight difference.
Something about that mesa can't be beat
Surely the Marshall cab sounds great, but not as good as the mesa. Like you've said, matter of taste. But there's not too much difference to get a marshall cab when you have a mesa.
By the way one question: Is a cab sounding that much different with or without the wheels?
I tried it in my studio and it surely adds some nice low end with the cab straight to the ground...if you want or need that it's kind of nice in my opinion.
I agree there's no need for a Marshall if you already own a Mesa.
The wheels will make a difference if you stand right beside the cab, but not for close miking in the studio.
So it sounds like their cabinets are sort of built to sound the inverse of their amps. The marshall amp is dark while the mesa cab is brighter with punch on the mid and higher frequencies.
Wow i see a diezel head there.
A diezel cabs would be interesting, i dont own any cabs but i own diezel cabs pack ir and with almost any metal amps, i got instant metallica tone especially master of puppets like scooped mids.
And if you like mick thompson speakers, probably jim roots fav cabs, orange cabs would be interesting to give it a shot
Hi Kohle, very interesting video, you've done what we'd like to do, and comparaison is pretty much instructive then I thought !
Could we conclude that the positioning of the microphone can "catch up" with the manufacturing quality of the cabinet ? because you managed to have a very similar result when you freely placed the microphone at the end, a very soft equalization must be able to do the job, right ? After the HP, isn't the positioning the big deal, for modern or vintage sound ?
Thank you for sharing your personal questioning.
Peace.
Great video as always kristian !! 🤘🏼 greetings !!
RANDALL cabs are also amazing. Those cabs are made for heavy music as well
Here's my way of getting an oversized cab sound: take a regular Marshall 4x12 model 1960 (which is all plywood, except the back panel is MDF, by the way), get rid of two speakers, cover up the holes with pieces of plywood (you can get the materials at the hardware store), and that way I get an oversized closed back 2x12 cab. Still looks awesome like any 4x12, is lighter to carry, and you can sell the speakers for even more cash! I swear this configuration makes even G12T-75s sound better!
Killer man. Would love to hear the 100s heard a diezel cab with them I was blown away
You mean the K100s?
@@KohleAudioKult Yes !
Any Diezel would be great, yes please!
Thought the Marshall would be brighter/opposite of what it is. In the mix I think the Marshall sounds better.
Alone, I love the Marshall a lot more. But in the mix, the Mesa cuts and fits a lot better (in my opinion).
I like them both.
Cool video. I'd imagine that with a graphic EQ in the loop of the amp you'd get the Marshall cab to have more of that upper midrange bite.
If that’s what you want. I kinda like the darker tone.
Maybe a cool video idea, the slanted mesa cab vs the straight one. Im very curious if they sound different miced up
I remember testing that years ago on a production. It didn’t make a significant difference. Two different V30s will make a huge difference in comparison.
the Mesa still sounds bigger... The Marshall sound more focused.... Interesting video indeed!
Maybe it would be cool to get your hands on some guitar cabinets that are really cheap on the used market, and do the same kind of test. I swear, my crate blue voodoo cab is a real sleeper. All birch, very solid.🤘🏻🤘🏻
i like my blue voodoo cab as well. it doesn't sound the same as a mesa oversized, but it sounds good. i did put v-30's and G12T-75's in it though. I'd really like to get some Jensens or proper eminence's for it. (that cab came with crate branded speakers made by eminence). but it's a high quality cab for sure.
@@slavesforging5361 Wait for my Jensen video before you decide!
Sure! But where do I put all the cabs?
@@KohleAudioKult will do!
@@slavesforging5361 mine has the speakers that were made for crate by Jensen. I pulled one out and put in a veteran 30, which I chose after hearing it in one of Kohle’s speaker shootouts!! 🤘🏻🤘🏻