For me the difference is in the way the amp reacts to your playing, if you want a change in tone just turn the knobs out front, in terms of preference, I've liked EL34 is the past so I've just stuck with those on my tube amps, but then again my current rig is solid state so what do I know?
Would it matter to you, if you could use EQ to make one tube sound like another? Kristian, I think it would be an interesting video where you use the Isotope EQ matching feature to see if you really can Eq a 6L6 into an EL34?
I can hear the difference on the rectifier better. The difference on the bugera is harder to hear and for me only a very subtle one. I'm sure I won't hear any difference in a full mix. I would bet the difference between two amps of the same series is bigger then between those tube type in the same amp.
I can definitely hear the difference, and it does matter to me! I know how my amps are supposed to sound, and even changing tube brand makes a difference...it happened to me! Cool video, keep it up!! 🤘
I love how people say "this won't make a difference in a mix" every mix is so full of absolutely minute changes that won't be directly perceived by people but it's the combination of many in elemental changes that makes the whole sit right. Tubes contribute to that. Not saying everyone needs to change tubes.but it will matter to some people and will have an effect. That's good enough. Whether it's worth splurging on or not is a personal choice.
Totally! however, most people that care about tubes, are the ones that never record themselves. Any 1 db boost or cut with an eq will do the trick. Great comment though.
I think that peak optimum tone as a theoretical thing definitely involves the tubes, type and quality. But, for any given track, I bet that a very high percentage of non-musician listeners won't notice the difference. That's because (imo) the difference is mostly musicians being esoteric -- which is great and makes this hobby and pursuit of tone fun. I believe the biggest differences are in how the guitar player feels when playing. Like they say, poets write what they need to write, not what people need to hear -- it's kind of the same thing.
What an incredible demo! I love the subtle differences! I personally think it's something I notice A LOT when I'm playing and that is the most important thing for me! As guitarists great tones inspire us! Great video Kristian!!
@@asdfjkl981There's also compression vs harmonic generation levels and balance, intermodulation distortion levels, impedance-based HF ducking within a given circuit, S-Curve response, and electrical and mechanical resonance levels. I think that covers it.
You know what I really, really like about Kohle? He is the nice guy that just shows whats going on. He doesn't try to force a result into the tests he is doing. And most important: He doesn't scream his own opinion all over the place. He just let you judge by yourself. More youtubers should be like you, Christian! Thank you so much for the high-quality content you're posting here!
@@SpectreSoundStudios Well, I think we both can agree, that there are differences in the sound. Just as Kohle said. I really don't want to offend you, Glenn. You did some really awesome mixing videos. But I'm with Christian Kohle when it comes to the topic "tubes". I even rewatched your video on this topic. You clealy say: The change in your tone is most definitely not worth the cost of re-tubing your amp. Yes, to some degree this may applies and I'd maybe come to the same conclusion with the test results in your video. But when I see the results Kohle gave in his video, I think there really is a difference that is worth mentoning. I kinda had the same results when I changed my TAD-Tubes to cheaper chinese ones.
Glen is so wrong lol. Not sure why he can’t just use his damn ears. Just get an amp that allows for swapping tube types, and you can clearly hear a difference.
@@sentientcloroxbottle1557 It kind of depends in my exp. In my stealths, the preamp tubes don't make much of a difference, so the stock tubes are recommended. In my block letter, most of the differences between tubes are quite small, and mostly in feel, unless a different type of tube... Small tonal differences exist that might not show up well in a recording, going through an sm57 that pretty much filters out some info anyway... However, one tube that seems to make a pretty big difference in my opinion is using the Shuguang Beijing square foil getters. Maybe that's what he meant by "original unbranded," and it does seem that they *ALMOST* null with the modern shuguang 12ax7 but... The Beijings are brighter and have more gain than any other tube out there. As per James Brown, the amp was designed around that specific tube, so if one thinks their block Letter sounds a bit dark or too smooth, that's a first place to check. Interestingly, that tube makes no fim diff in a Stealth, but it might be that the design of the Stealth filters out some of those frequencies. Now... In my 1984 JCM800's, the differences between all sorts of tubes is more apparent. RFT's have saggy, chewy attack and Shuguang Beijing square foil getters give you sharp, searing, razor-edged highs. Depending on how you use your gear, this could all make a diff or not... And in a recording it might make less of a difference, because of the extra filtering inherent in microphones and recording gear. And with that said, tubes won't change your life. They won't make you magically Jimi or EVH etc..
@* That's true. I have amps with pretty much every popular power tube, and the feel is different, but very, very minimal in my opinion, especially when in the same circuit (amp). Changing a pickup, pedal, guitar, or speaker, even just the volume, any of those factors have much more impact. Still, a cool demonstration and one more factor in the constant pursuit of our "perfect tone" we all want.
@@KeganVanSickle Most of the amp brands have a sound signature that has nothing to do with the tube, its do to manipulation of the signal path. There is absolutly no reason for a amp tube to be different, they just amp the signal, they do not change it unless they are saturated or malfunctioning. Best and cheaper way to change the tone is to use the knobs of your amp :-)
@@josearaujo8616 tubes are different in gain and saturation, but also in quality (microphonic or not, sensible to electrical noise around it, etc) and have different input capacitance, making them sound more or less warm. But yeah, a simple cap change in the around the signal path would probably make much more difference in tone
@@Ph4nToMfr Not saying tubes are not different when they are working outside of their efficiency area, but hey are made to amplify without distortion of the input, if not they would be useless.
To me, it seems like changing power tubes is something you do when you are already mostly satisfied with your tone, and are looking for a little extra refinement. It's one of those things where if you are inherently dissatisfied, you're not going to solve the problem with a new set of tubes. It's just an extra push on something you already like.
Durability and longevity matter too. In my experience Tung-Sol 7581A tubes outlast any current production 6L6GC tubes. Same is true for EHX 6CA7 and Genalex KT77. They have far better longevity than other current production EL34, 6CA7, E34L and KT77 tubes. Many tube amp owners often lookout for military issued tubes because they are more ruggedly built than consumer grade tubes and are able to withstand the rigours of live tours better.
It made a huge difference in my amp, but the tubes were really old. Tubes are light bulbs. They dim, and red plate etc. But if there's nothing wrong per say, why swap them out?
@@Maschine_Elf I've never really tried 6l6 tubes, but have been jumping back and forth between some different brands of EL34 tubes over the years. I recently had some issues with Tube Safety Control on my Hughes and Kettner and had to send it in to the repairmen and they put in some Electro Harmonics El34 Eh tubes and I had been using Tad or JJ, or some Mesa EL34's and I must say the for the speakers I'm currently using they rounded of the high frequencies nicely for my bright amp, pickup, and speaker combination, compared to the TAD EL34 I was using.
Different Tubes have different properties. They change the "reaction" of the circut. On a different circut design they may behave differently. So I would not expect that a difference on the mesa is the same in other amps. Maybe its interchanged and one tube sounds darker there. What I wanted to say is, that the sound is NOT in the tube, but in the whole circut. And if you change a component in that, than the sound (may) changes. Maybe you could achieve a similar sound difference when you replace a resistor with one that have 5% less or more Ohm. I dont think that tubes have a different frequency response in the audio range. If we would talk about MHz thats a different story. I mean frequency response based on the working principle itself. Different capacites, inductivities and resistance and amplification factors can surely have an effect in the circut. Just like longer cables reduce the highs due to higher capacity. But cool video again.
I literally saw the sky get darker during the video....thank you Kohle for using your precious time to make these videos to help us. really appreciated
I supose, EQ tweak might give you same tone despite differences in the tubes. If that the case, there is no reason to mess with the tubes and leave it to amp designers ;)
I also think that for the normal guitarist without tons of equipment the question of how EQ could compensate would be very interesting :-) Still great ear training though, thanks for the video.
@@q11v Easy method. Get the frequency response curve and then EQ your gear to the same curve. Get the sample of your favorite tone, play the same riff on your gear and try to match the EQ curve.
I'm glad you did this with real amps and real mics, because I don't feel that modelling amps really have the widest harmonic content compared to them. I also feel that if you have different brands say Electro Harmonics, Tad, and JJ you get even more of a drastic difference in sound. You should really consider doing one of these showing the differences between the three tube amp manufacturers. This doesn't even take into account shaping the sound with your preamp tubes, which can have a effect. Changing out one tube or such won't do much but if you shift them all from different tubes types and manufacturers it can. Not if your speaker is super dark you might not hear much difference, but if it is bright and you can hear the shifts in high end or whether one tube is more scooped in the mid's.
@Kohlekeller Studio Important to know: Mesa Color-Code has only the sense to clearify the pairing. It means nothing in sense of tonal or parametric differences. Because you should always put matched tubes in pair from the outside to the inside. Mesa already clarified this.
I personally think people make way too much of a deal out of tubes/tube amps. This video just helps further confirm what I already believed in that the difference in tubes makes almost no difference to the tone, seems like nothing a few very slight turns on the amps EQ knobs would be doing at most. The negatives of tubes outweigh the benefits: inconsistent sounds on different power sources (one time i plugged in at a bar and it blew my tube right then and there), fragility during travel, having to replace them and then have someone bias the amp because it has new tubes, higher price to purchase just because its a tube amp. Yes, there are glorious tube amps out there that sound amazing. Modern day modeling from line 6, boss, headrush etc etc are truly amazing and just as good IMO. I think it would be impossible to distinguish the sound in a mix in a blind a/b test whether the guitar track was from a real cranked marshall mic'd up in a studio vs a good model of a marshall from top end modeler of choice with a great impulse response. I've seen several videos of a cheap boss katana sounding almost exactly the same as a marshall vintage studio head. I choose reliability and consistency.
The actual question is: is it worth to spend that much money in something that has a negligible difference in your sound? Especially when you have the amp's tonestack (and sometimes presence) to compensate? The character and overall frequency spectrum are still there, only with a small db difference in very specific ranges. My answer is no.
its the law of diminishing returns and i agree with you (im just a hobbyist guitar player myself) but there will always be those people to whom the 1-5% 'improvement' is worth it at any cost. EVH for example stopped at nothing to get what he had in his head out of a speaker
It's not a metal amp, but Mojave make an amp with a built in Variac. Eddie used to blow a lot of amps, people say because the valves ran with too low a voltage on the heaters, maybe that was part of the sound, but I certainly cant afford to revalve an amp too often. The Mojave amp doesn't have this problem. But I also cant afford to buy the Mojave amp.
Subtle but important. Kristian’s ears are much more refined than Glenn’s. If Glenn can’t hear the difference then that’s probably why he hasn’t mixed many successful records.
@@seamusmcsorley7638 You may be correct but It is possible that Glen used a dark speaker, meaning that it didn't have much high end reproducing capability but I don't remember what speakers he had in the test. I also didn't like how Glen ran his test through a load box instead of a real cab and real mic which I think gives more of a true representation of the amp do to the dynamic nature of both. Loadboxes are handy but they are pretty static in the equalization and any real mic cabinet always sounded better in my opinion.
Didn’t know that there are so many tubes classifications. Hell, i can only afford a Boss Katana. I learn something new today. As always great content! Keep it coming Kristian!
There is difference. But what most people fail to tell you is that they feel differently(at least it does on my Triple Rectifier) I bought mine and it came with the 6L6.I used it for 2 years like that and eventually swapped out for EL34s and it felt more compressed and tighter. I liked it more and have been running EL34s for 9yrs. But the biggest with the recto is cranking it up. It saturates a whole nicer in my opinion
I can't add anything new to previous comments, but EL34s sound unexpected good for solo stuff in Recto. Thanks to Kohle for such educational videos that make many assumptions clear (die auch nicht umsonst sind) after getting tube amps (im Haushalt).
I think the thing that makes this video better (if anything) than the @SpectreSoundStudios video is that we're hearing the same segment of guitar performance in the A/B comparisons, playing the exact same part on the different tubes. In Glenn's video they switch back and forth as the mix keeps playing. It is the same performance, but you never hear the exact same phrase played through the different tubes. This has been my main, and really only complaint about how Glenn does comparisons. But I think this video could have also benefited from a null test. That said, watched together this video and Glenn's give a well rounded perspective on the subject of tube differences. Seems that the subtle difference is negligible compared to what can be done with EQ-ing, pedals, or most importantly, different speakers. Cheers mates! 🤘
Yep, exactly what you said. I would also like to add to check the dimensions of tubes before buying them, or to check the distance between tube sockets because in my case (PRS MT15) I can not use KT66s as there is not even a milimeter of space between them when installed in the MT15 ... so keep that in mind, I will be selling my KT66s. And yes, the sound of the KT66s is basically the same as 6L6s.
I closed my eyes so that I would not know when the tubes were being changed and could not hear any difference in the audio whatsoever. I really like tests like this! thanks for putting it out there!
Didn’t your null tests prove there was a difference between the tubes you swapped? None of them completely nulled. “The difference is small but important.”
@@justiceforcier3853 expectations can easily fool your brain into hearing a bigger difference than there actually is, a null test is just a good way of filtering that out and judging the difference by itself, i think some ppl might have appreciated it on Kohle's video. But in the end, the best thing to do is to watch both videos and make up your own mind, regardless of what other ppl might say or think...
I could hear the difference. Although I wonder if it would be equal difference between different tube sets, since you buy matched tube sets so you can bias them properly, which doesn't mean they're equal. So you might be disappointed if you bought the same tube set again and expected it to be the same. I don't know how the rectifier autobias affects the test, regarding the designed operating voltages/plate dissipations and such, that are in my understanding a bit different between the tube models. Maybe it puts them right where the tube wants to sit? Gotta wonder if manual bias could make the difference even less pronounced. Or slight adjustment of front panel knobs. Or change in play style. I'd actually love a test with only the same brand, same model tube sets to see if there's notable, audible differnce as well. For control reference you know? To know what we're really measuring and where it originates from. You already showed how just the volume you run the tubes changes the sound (which isn't a surprise since that changes the electrical conditions the tubes operate in), so gotta wonder if the differences could be balanced with volume adjustment. With cranked amp it was already pretty difficult to hear the difference, even though it was still easy to blindly tell where the clip changed. With Bugera it was even more difficult. The first A/B I listened again with the window hidden and I had to go back a couple of times and then just look at the screen to see if there was two clips. When watching the screen I could recognize the difference, but without looking I thought it was just the playing dynamics in a single clip. Is Tube Amp Doctor importing, matching and rebranding the same tubes that everyone else uses? That's a lot of production line manufacturers so I assume the reason for using TAD is something about reliability? For EL34 I heard David Friedman say it's almost impossible to find even tolerable units at all, and he's been thinking on going for other tubes like 6L6 just for the reliability issue. Him and a couple of other builders discussed the issue with preamp tubes as well, that they use chinese, sometimes rebranded tubes but the same stuff anyway, because they're the most reliable. But they still have to often use something different in the first stage (I recall EHX), but have to go through a big box of waste, because you need a low microphonics tube in that spot, and the chinese don't usually do that. Mostly it seems to be about realiability regarding tubes with the manufacturers, not really the tone. But surprisingly the reliability being in the china. In the end it's the three factories that produce everyone's tubes, seems like some brands filter through the pain before selling them, which is a major benefit to the consumer and probably worth a bit extra just so that you can bias the amp well. Personally I'd buy an eq pedal over any tweaks with tubes and such, other than rebiasing the amp correctly. Manufacturers I understand tend to lean to the safer side on bias to avoid warranty issues and how are you even supposed to set up an amp that's being used in 10 european countries stating about the same mains voltage, but the actual voltage being all over the place. And even in US I've heard the voltage that says 120 can be like 112 or 127. Imagine the difference in sound. Boss eq-7 can make even more drastic tonal changes for like half the price of a matched power tube set. And it can help with the next set that sounds different than previous as well! An average tube set should last roughly 10 000 hours of playing so consider that if you plan on changing tubes every year or two.
Maybe you should do a video about preamp tubes in the future... Should be interesting because: - everything that changes will be even more amplified by the following stages (especially when you switch the V1 preamp tube) - opposed to your power tubes you actually drive the pre-tubes into saturation You can even get an improvement of noise-to-signal ratio by just switching around preamp tubes against each other, by putting the least noisy one first, without even buying one new tube.
Dude. This blew the roof off everything I thought I knew about the difference between 6L6 and el34 tubes. This was a really fun watch! Thanks a billion for this!
My Matamp’s are very sensitive to the gain of the v1 preamp tube and switching to a balanced 12AT7 in the phase inverter made a bit of difference with tightening things up. I found it was more sensitive to how I biased the power tubes more than which tubes of the same type (EL34) but the difference in the power amp was more noticeable with the volume cranked (which is how every Matamp and classic Orange OR should be played). I heard Dave Friedman say the circuit matters so much more than the power tubes being 6L6 vs EL34 and I’ll trust him. Speakers, cabinet construction, mic choice and placement matter much more.
Much bigger difference on non-M/V amps without cascading preamp gain than on high-gain amps, but you do hear differences in gain levels among different preamp tubes. Sometimes that alone can be good for adjusting the hair on an amp when EQ won't do or has a different effect than desired.
I'd love to see this experiment with different preamp tubes. My favorite manufacturer makes 12AX7 tubes in various types that emphasize different frequency ranges. Power tubes on the other hand are all designed to be as neutral as possible. I have one amp set up with tubes with a midrange focus and another amp setup with full range tubes. The difference is more dramatic that anything I can hear based on power tubes.
6L6 vs EL34 sounds to me a little like the difference between coated vs clear Emperors on a 12-inch tom. The top and the 350-700hz range change. I have an Egnator Rebel 20 amp head (among others). It has a tube blend knob that blends between 6V6 and EL84s. The differences there mirror your 6L6-vs-EL34 experiment. I often find myself using the middle of that adjustment as a "midrange character adjustment." It's not night-and-day but it definitely pushes tones towards my end goals!
There you go, different valve (tube) models will change the tone slightly, not so much different brands of the same model. ALOT of people confuse the two I think. If they do sound different, they are hearing something that I am not. Remember that pretty much all "tubes" are made by the same company in Russia, except JJ, which are made in Slovakia. And China for some "no-brand" ones.
@* Yeah but the difference between the same type other manufacturer tube will be so little that it doesn't worth bothering. If you are swapping El34 to 6l6 then it's audible but then you need an amp tech to rebias the amp, unless you have a Bugera Infinium.
Good video. I agree with most if not all what was said. EL34 for singing leads and rock n roll, 6L6 for metal rhythm to get that size and clarity in palm-muted stuff. Very cool that you tested them cranked as well.
There are differences yes subtle its all about the amp,the preamp shapes the soound for,the most,part and the speakers will give you the most,noticeable differences its a tricky thing,to the guitar well pickups,pedal amp tube cab speaker Mic so on that takes a wealth of knkwledge thats what i love about this guy he has the know,how and pushs us past the learning curve
Yes, different tubes do make a difference in tone. But it’s really pretty small. Where I notice the biggest difference is in the feel of the amp. Tight vs looser. Now it compresses in the low and low mids. The transient attack in the highs. Speakers make the biggest difference in tone.
I recently switched from Sovtek tubes to Russian made Mullards for output valves. I could hear a difference. In both tone and headroom. I played guitar and played the Beatles from my music player through the amp for the test. It was then that the differences were really noticed. I chose well. Very happy with my old Peavey Classic Stereo 50/50.
Okay, I hear the differences. The difference between the 6L6GC-STR and EL34B-STR was quite obvious, but that's something expected because the 6L6GC is a beam tetrode while the EL34 is a true pentode. The 5881WXT-R sounded a lot fizzy and harsh in the Rectifier. I ain't sure why they sounded so bad, because those tubes and their Russian military equivalents named 6P3S-E recieve a lot of praise from Soldano SLO users. The KT66 sounded like a compromise between the 6L6GC and the EL34. It has EL34 like mids but it doesn't sound dark like the EL34. It sounds less bass heavy than the 6L6GC though. As for my preference, I prefer Tung-Sol 7581a tubes in my amp. Deeper lows than a 6L6GC, and more detailed highs. And the most important thing, they last a lot longer than normal 6L6GC tubes. The military grade NOS JAN Philips 7581a tubes are even better and last even longer, but they cost a fortune. The old Mesa/Sylvania 6L6GC STR 415 tubes which are revered by Mesa users were lower quality civilian issue variants of the JAN Philips 7581a.
Great comparison examples side by side! For preamp tubes, the gain structure is effected more. When I change Mesa Boogie Triaxis from JJ to Mullard NOS (both 12AX7), the difference is more obvious than your Poweramp case. (Sorry for mentioned other brands, get to know Tube Amp Doctor from this video.)
I only use TAD and JJ tubes in my amplifiers. I've tried different tubes and for some reason they seem to perform tone wise in way that suits me. Probably just my ear, and the fact that they are good quality.
In some cases there are differences, but they are very subtle. All those differences will dissapear in the mixing so... The holy grail tube search was over some years ago for me. I use reliable tubes from trusted brands and that's it.
The differences were marginal but existed. What didn't surprise me was the impairment under heavy loads. Can you really say that it only comes from the power tubes? How do the output transformer or the loudspeakers behave when they have to work in borderline areas? A similar effect can also be heard when the volume is too low. That's always exactly the one reason when I have to gamble with the FoH technician about the guitar volume ... :) Nice video!
Cranking amps for metal is not a good thing most of the time! It's important to understand what's happening sonically. For me it's not that important if it's the transformer or the tubes or something else causing this.
I prefer using EL34 amps (not marshalls tho) and use really high output pickup and boost infront of the amp, this way I get that nice bite and also that open tone! awesome video !
Before even watching? I will say I can hear the difference between a 6l6 and an el34 in the same amp. Though I prefer kt77 when I can help it. Nowhere near as drastic as changing out a cab, but still can be a certain tweak to your chain.
I have the Epiphone reissue, in fireburst with a really nice top. It's a pretty quirky guitar, but I love it. It's small and light, and the coil split on the neck minihumbucker and the bridge humbucker give you a lot of options. It looks like they are selling now for more than their new price ($399), but a few years ago, you could get a used one for like $250.
@@Justin.Franks I've seen both the Gibson version and Epiphone version with a chickenhead knob on it that lets you switch between tones that I've always wanted. After doing a little research after watching this, apparently that's a common mod for the guitar. The one I played had that mod and I thought that was a standard feature.
My experience with Bugera 6260 pre infinium 12ax7 preamp tube swaps: It came with 3 same older Sovtek 12ax7 tubes, lacking more info on them, 1 Sovtek 12ax7wa, bit different than other 3 and 1 Marshall ecc83. When I am swapping them I can notice better or worse gain response on high gain channel. Only one configuration is what I like. Rest is too much gain even from tele's lipstick, hard to get good chugs. No change in tone itself but good, tight response vs always too much sizzle/not enough gain and very narrow gain sweet spot.
I love tube amps but i can’t help but feel amplifier technology has a TON of room for modernization, and i dont mean amp modeling. Modern overdrive/distortion pedals sound SO good and we are seeing more and more pedals designed to be used as a preamp: BE od depuxe, 5150 od, ksr ceres, diezel vh4, horizon apex. ... Why is it that we havent seen more companies make solid state amplifiers that take advantage of some of the design techniques that make these pedals sound so good?
Cool. I think I need to learn to bias myself, so that I can have my own nerd fest. Now I got to go to the tech each time I want different tubes. Just went from EL34 to EHX 6CA7 in my Marshall JCM900 SL-X. I think it gave a bit more low end. But it's hard to compare after not having it for a week.
If you use the TAD tubes you just have to bias once. Then just order TAD tubes with the same values and switch between compatible tubes without any rebiasing.
I am surprised how much of a difference it actually makes! I was quite skeptical when reading through the comments before hearing the actual sound examples, but WOW! FYI - I'm listening on some very nice Genelec 8030 Monitors so I can be sure that I am hearing all of the necessary details. I suppose the difference is not as clear when listening on some cheap monitors or headphones. Danke das du dir die Zeit genommen hast die Vergleiche zu ziehen Kristian!
After that second melodic tune in the intro, I'm picturing Kohle crying into a glass of Rothaus at a Ü30 party while all the hot chicks are being swung around the dancefloor with some serious Discofox moves.
I noticed a slight difference in my Peavey 6505+ head I changed from Groove tubes made in China to the Russian built Mullard tubes and the Hot lead channel to me was a lot more nicer sounding and less noisy meaning the highs were more controlled being more defined that is the difference it made in my amp. Cheers Kohle
Another superb demo here. I've seen one or two videos previously about running EL34s in a Recto but this time I really liked the results. Might have to try that in my Rectoverb combo now, I like how it tames the fizz a bit
wow! very interesting. I agree the el34 are more warm mid and the 6l6 are a little more glassy in the highs. I never noticed the cranked amp sound was that different now I need to test my amps at lower volumes. Thanks very much for sharing!
Great video man! Being an amateur tube amp modder, I have spent more hours than I care to admit trying tubes and comparing! It’s worth noting that which amp you’re working with with make a huge difference in the way the various types of tube reacts and responds both in tone and feel! There are of course so many other factors that can change the way the different tube types vary such as power tube bias. I could go on and on but definitely worth trying different tubes to get some different tone out of the amps! Loved this video!
to me its not always the sound to consider. the feel and the room noise matters too, not just the end result on the mix. to me there is a different spongy feel to them, how fast they distort, the spikeyness. a bunch of factors. to me its like when a guy can get a great recording with a modeler and you play the same modeler with same setting and it just doesnt feel right. i just reamp it to get around that but there is something to be said about the small nuances of different tubes.
I love throwing EL34 in a 5150 or 6505+ it compliments that head which is naturally really bright almost too bright but with those tubes i find it to be perfect
Man muss sich vor Augen halten, dass eine Röhre per se nicht klingt. Viel mehr bestimmen die Betriebsparameter und die Beschaltung der einzelnen Stufen den Klang eines Verstärkers. Bei den Endröhren eines Verstärkers spielt hier insbesondere die Lastimpedanz, die von der Lautsprecherbox gebildet und vom Ausgangsübertrager transformiert wird eine entscheidene Rolle. Die meisten 50 oder 100W Verstärker laufen typischerweise im Class AB Betrieb bei etwa 450 bis 500 Volt Betriebsspannung. Für einen solchen Betriebspunkt liegt der optimale Widerstand für eine EL34 bei etwa 3,4Kohm bei einer 6L6GC beträgt er 5,6Kohm, also etwa 60 Prozent mehr als bei der EL34 (Für die KT66 sogar 8Kohm). Nun was bedeutet das ganze für die Praxis? Wird eine El34 in einen Verstärker eingesetzt der eigentlich für 6L6GC gedacht ist läuft die Röhre außerhalb ihres optimalen Betriebspunkt. Die Folgen sind eine geringere Ausgangsleistung, sowie mehr Klirr (Oberwellen) in Form von k2 und k3. Dadurch ändert sich entsprechend das gesamte Klangbild. Nun ist nicht jeder Verstärker gleich konstruiert, bzw dimensoniert dadurch lässt sich kaum ein allgemeiner Schluss ziehen was passieren wird, wenn der Röhrentyp geändert wird. Der Rectifier in deinem Video ist hierfür ein wunderbares Beispiel bei dem beträgt die Lastimpedanz umgerechnet etwa 4Kohm. 6L6GC als auch El34 arbeiten hier beide nie wirklich im optimalen Arbeitspunkt. Der gleiche Effekt stellt sich übrigens auch ein, wenn der angeschlossene Lautsprecher an einen falschen Impedanz Abgriff gehängt wird. Ein weiterer Punkt ist, der leider nicht erwähnt wurde, dass die El34, wie auch die KT88, oder die 6550 im Vergleich zur 6L6GC einen deutlich höheren Heizstrom ziehen. Das kann bei Verstärkern die keinen ausreichend dimensionierten Trafo besitzen zu Überlastung und schließlich zur Zerstörung des selbigen führen. Man sollte sich also vorher vergewissern, dass hier keine Schäden verursacht werden. Meine persönliche Meinung ist zu dem ganzen Röhren Thema, dass es sich einfach nicht lohnt und man besser bei dem Röhrentyp bleibt, für den der Verstärker gebaut wurde. Lieber den Lautsprecher wechseln, oder ein gutes Eq Pedal in den Loop hängen, da kann man ganze Welten bewegen. Ein zwei Anmerkungen habe ich noch: 1. Die Endstufenverzerrung kommt nicht aus den Endröhren, sondern fast ausschließlich aus der sogenannten Phasenumkehrstufe, die die Endröhren ansteuert. 2. Leider ist es keine Seltenheit, dass in einer Röhre nicht das drinn ist, was auf dem Glas steht. Gerade die KT66 ist davon oft betroffen, bei einigen Exemplaren steckt in Wahreit ein System der 6L6GC im Glaskolben. Gleiches Schicksal trifft auch die KT88 bei der auch gerne mal ein System der 6550 verbaut wird, obwohl diese aus elektrischer Sicht der KT88 unterlegen ist. Gruß aus Norddeutschland.
Did you have any bias issues with your mesa and I know this can change the amps tone a great deal. Sorry I've had a lot of bad luck repairing peoples amps that have used these TAD tubes! I wouldn't recommend them there are many others that have proved themselves to me with there sounds and quality. Thanks for the video.
I used to be kinda bummed my first version Mesa Rect-o-verb didnt have the option to swap El34s for the standard 6L6 (that option was added in the 2nd version), but after listening to this, Im fine with the 6L6's. Thanks for doing this video.
Just for the uninformed, SMG's vid was switch X brand of A type of tube with Y brand of A type tube, This vid is X brand of A type of tube with X brand of B type of tube they do not provide conflicting information,
They don't... but since TAD is just rebranding and selecting (whatever criteria I have no clue) shiny glass bottles they still count as different brands to me. Because they used to be from different factories and therefore different brands.
You're correct, yet Glenn still voiced his conclusion as "replacing tubes is not going to change anything significant" - his video's thumbnail even says "Tubes don't matter"... It's okay to be inconclusive due to lack of scope, it's not okay to spread misinformation. For me at this point is way more refreshing to see him humbled through his own tests, than to see him raging.
@@seenbelow REPLACING the same TYPE of tube is different than CHANGING the TYPE of tube in an amp. Glenn's video also pointed out that replacing OLD worn out tubes that have something wrong with then with NEW tubes is also different than replacing the same type of tube with a different brand, which are mostly rebrands anyway.
Broading speaking, you tend to notice less difference between output valves in high gain amps as there is already a lot of saturation going on in the preamp stages. However, some amps just respond more to valve changes than others. OTOH, vintage amps such as plexi Marshalls, AC30s, Fender Bassmans and such get their overdrive from the output stage and therefore the output valves do seem to imprint more tonal effect and I certainly hear the differences between valve brands and types. Speaking of valve types, simply exchanging 6L6s and EL34s is not a great indicator as they do not bias the same - indeed, even the same brand of 6L6s will likely not bias the same between various matched sets. This in itself gives tonal variance and could well be all you are hearing. Also, 6L6s and EL34s use output transformers with different primary impedance, so its a compromise to have an amp that claims to use both. You will find that the amp will have been voiced with one valve type in mind, and the other option is an afterthought (and won't sound as good). There is no black and white answer. Sometimes an amp will sound much the same with any valve, with only a small change even when biased correctly. Other amps (like single channel JCM800s for instance) can be really picky with the difference between brands and NOS types. One JCM800 I had sounded the best (tightest) with some NOS Siemens (German) EL34s. I tried some old Mullard EL34s that were very warm and fat, but didn't have the tight, crisp bass and upper midrange bite of the Siemens EL34s. I've found AC30s to display notable tonal differences between brands of EL84 valves too. So do valve types and brands matter? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Thanks for the input! Two things: 1.) TAD and me made sure the biasing was perfect for each set of tubes. 2.) I'm using the Bugera (which is a straight Plexi copy) in the video to show a vintage amp as well. All I'm saying is: We did a lot of thinking and testing before doing the video.
FYI All Msea amps are fixed bias so you just change tubes and play. The color code is how hot or cold the bias is so that's why they want you to use their brand.
That "tube is warmer" just sounds like the tube is pushed harder with the master knob. I'd say better go with attenuator instead of tubes - shape sound to your preferences and keep the volume in check. Otherwise, tubes are the last thing I'm looking for in my tone.
I replaced the 1 tube in my Rp7 valve effects proessor, and there was huge difference, it was even the same type of tube a 12ax7 but a different brand a JJ . Maybe since there was only 1 tube in the chain the difference was more pronounced, but i was really surprised how the saturated setting tighted up and became usable as a metal distortion whereas before it was a just a fizzy mess. That being said the cleans dont sound the same as i remember, they had a nice chime before that seems to be missing now, I could be mistaken so i'll put the old tube back to to make sure eventually. Kind of makes sense if a tube is good at distortion maybe its not so good for cleans and vice versa.
But you can "shape your sound in to the right direction" with the amp's controls and is easy. I didn't hear an "important" change of the sound with other tubes, i think those minimal changes you can do it with the dials.
Without going too crazy on methodology -- three groups of listeners: One just metal/rock fans. The other two are groups of guitar players. Before anyone hears anything, you have to match *measured* sound pressure levels at the listening position for each sample (because even 1db louder is going to be reported as "better") . The control group is just asked "Which sounds better" to choose between the two samples. Grp 1 is asked "which sounds better" but are told nothing about the amp, the tubes, the signal path. They only judge by the sound. Grp 2 is told the signal path and which tubes are which. For all groups, the order in which the samples are played is determined by coin toss. I predict that grp 2 will have stronger opinions than grp 1 and be more likely to get into fistfights (if there are no fistfights, your listeners are clearly not metal enough. Give them more beer and tell them that the samples are pre-release from the new Trapt album). The control group will be all over the map, but will have opinions. They should be supplied with beer and re-tested until the difference disappears or they pass out or stop fighting. The videos of the tests are then posted on TH-cam. What this test will measure is essentially how much fun it is to give metal heads beer and watch them fight.
@@Asgaia there's no real reason to use a valve rectifier, the V/I curve is pretty much a straight line so you can get a pretty good approximation with diodes and a power resistor. The switchable rectifier thing is really just a marketing gimmick. /Rant
@* to be fair, every amp is an evolution on what was there before. Even Leo Fender took the generic reference designs from the tube data sheets, and added a tone stack to turn it into a guitar amp.
Great vid, I think the difference between the el34 and 6l6 you'd definitely hear in a mix. Essentially you'd have to eq the 6l6 less to get rid of the mud!
Yup we can hear the differences, when you get to a certain level of playing it matters at least for those who are searching for their tone. To me, for high gain 6L6 all the way, but for ''cleans'' alltough that wasnt a total clean sound, EL34, but who cares about the cleans lol
Great video comparison! TAD is good, but I find various manufacturers also sound different, kinda something you have to research, and take into account when you realize what you want from your amp. And with some amps, you don't hear a big change.
Great points made both for and against, thank you! Ya' know something, I have used, and gotten great results playing tube amps and SS/digital amps both on stage and in the studio through the decades, and in my experience, tube amps work much better for me on stage, likewise the SS/digital stuff is superior in the recording studio.
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Who can hear the difference and does it matter to you?
For me the difference is in the way the amp reacts to your playing, if you want a change in tone just turn the knobs out front, in terms of preference, I've liked EL34 is the past so I've just stuck with those on my tube amps, but then again my current rig is solid state so what do I know?
Would it matter to you, if you could use EQ to make one tube sound like another? Kristian, I think it would be an interesting video where you use the Isotope EQ matching feature to see if you really can Eq a 6L6 into an EL34?
I can hear it, yeah. This is exactly how much I expected it to matter - which is to say, some, but not a ton.
I can hear the difference on the rectifier better. The difference on the bugera is harder to hear and for me only a very subtle one. I'm sure I won't hear any difference in a full mix. I would bet the difference between two amps of the same series is bigger then between those tube type in the same amp.
I can definitely hear the difference, and it does matter to me! I know how my amps are supposed to sound, and even changing tube brand makes a difference...it happened to me! Cool video, keep it up!! 🤘
I love how people say "this won't make a difference in a mix" every mix is so full of absolutely minute changes that won't be directly perceived by people but it's the combination of many in elemental changes that makes the whole sit right. Tubes contribute to that.
Not saying everyone needs to change tubes.but it will matter to some people and will have an effect. That's good enough.
Whether it's worth splurging on or not is a personal choice.
Totally! however, most people that care about tubes, are the ones that never record themselves. Any 1 db boost or cut with an eq will do the trick. Great comment though.
I think that peak optimum tone as a theoretical thing definitely involves the tubes, type and quality. But, for any given track, I bet that a very high percentage of non-musician listeners won't notice the difference. That's because (imo) the difference is mostly musicians being esoteric -- which is great and makes this hobby and pursuit of tone fun. I believe the biggest differences are in how the guitar player feels when playing. Like they say, poets write what they need to write, not what people need to hear -- it's kind of the same thing.
What an incredible demo! I love the subtle differences! I personally think it's something I notice A LOT when I'm playing and that is the most important thing for me! As guitarists great tones inspire us! Great video Kristian!!
the subtle differences are differences in volume. thats it. tubes are no eqs
@@asdfjkl981There's also compression vs harmonic generation levels and balance, intermodulation distortion levels, impedance-based HF ducking within a given circuit, S-Curve response, and electrical and mechanical resonance levels. I think that covers it.
@@GCKelloch nope
You know what I really, really like about Kohle? He is the nice guy that just shows whats going on. He doesn't try to force a result into the tests he is doing. And most important: He doesn't scream his own opinion all over the place. He just let you judge by yourself. More youtubers should be like you, Christian! Thank you so much for the high-quality content you're posting here!
The Video Glenn Fricker did about tubes was horrible... And as you said: There is a difference. Maybe its small, BUT ITS IMPORTANT!
No idea what you're talking about :)
Haha! Now let’s fight Glenn! 🤪👊
@@SpectreSoundStudios Someone has to scream on TH-cam, please never stop :D
@@SpectreSoundStudios Well, I think we both can agree, that there are differences in the sound. Just as Kohle said. I really don't want to offend you, Glenn. You did some really awesome mixing videos. But I'm with Christian Kohle when it comes to the topic "tubes". I even rewatched your video on this topic. You clealy say: The change in your tone is most definitely not worth the cost of re-tubing your amp. Yes, to some degree this may applies and I'd maybe come to the same conclusion with the test results in your video. But when I see the results Kohle gave in his video, I think there really is a difference that is worth mentoning. I kinda had the same results when I changed my TAD-Tubes to cheaper chinese ones.
Suddenly a wild Glenn Fricker appears and starts screaming.
😂
Glen is so wrong lol. Not sure why he can’t just use his damn ears. Just get an amp that allows for swapping tube types, and you can clearly hear a difference.
@@DemonKingOFFICIAL his test was done with preamp tubes. Not power amp tubes,and there was indeed no difference.
SCIENCE!!!!! Lol that’s what he would scream
@@sentientcloroxbottle1557 It kind of depends in my exp. In my stealths, the preamp tubes don't make much of a difference, so the stock tubes are recommended.
In my block letter, most of the differences between tubes are quite small, and mostly in feel, unless a different type of tube... Small tonal differences exist that might not show up well in a recording, going through an sm57 that pretty much filters out some info anyway...
However, one tube that seems to make a pretty big difference in my opinion is using the Shuguang Beijing square foil getters. Maybe that's what he meant by "original unbranded," and it does seem that they *ALMOST* null with the modern shuguang 12ax7 but... The Beijings are brighter and have more gain than any other tube out there. As per James Brown, the amp was designed around that specific tube, so if one thinks their block Letter sounds a bit dark or too smooth, that's a first place to check.
Interestingly, that tube makes no fim diff in a Stealth, but it might be that the design of the Stealth filters out some of those frequencies.
Now... In my 1984 JCM800's, the differences between all sorts of tubes is more apparent. RFT's have saggy, chewy attack and Shuguang Beijing square foil getters give you sharp, searing, razor-edged highs.
Depending on how you use your gear, this could all make a diff or not... And in a recording it might make less of a difference, because of the extra filtering inherent in microphones and recording gear.
And with that said, tubes won't change your life. They won't make you magically Jimi or EVH etc..
If you want to get really crazy, you can adjust the tone controls of your amplifier. ;)
@* That's true. I have amps with pretty much every popular power tube, and the feel is different, but very, very minimal in my opinion, especially when in the same circuit (amp). Changing a pickup, pedal, guitar, or speaker, even just the volume, any of those factors have much more impact. Still, a cool demonstration and one more factor in the constant pursuit of our "perfect tone" we all want.
@@KeganVanSickle Most of the amp brands have a sound signature that has nothing to do with the tube, its do to manipulation of the signal path. There is absolutly no reason for a amp tube to be different, they just amp the signal, they do not change it unless they are saturated or malfunctioning.
Best and cheaper way to change the tone is to use the knobs of your amp :-)
@@josearaujo8616 tubes are different in gain and saturation, but also in quality (microphonic or not, sensible to electrical noise around it, etc) and have different input capacitance, making them sound more or less warm.
But yeah, a simple cap change in the around the signal path would probably make much more difference in tone
@@Ph4nToMfr Not saying tubes are not different when they are working outside of their efficiency area, but hey are made to amplify without distortion of the input, if not they would be useless.
@@josearaujo8616 they are made to amplify with few distorsion, but they are far from perfect
This is flat-out the most useful metal gear channel on youtube \m/
Glenn Fricker has entered the chat...
I was looking for this one he just did a video on them for those that don't know
it's only really funny if you don't understand the difference between switching brands of the same type and switching the tube types,
and apparently quickly left the chat since he deleted his comment lol
@@hogblockula9335 lol
To me, it seems like changing power tubes is something you do when you are already mostly satisfied with your tone, and are looking for a little extra refinement. It's one of those things where if you are inherently dissatisfied, you're not going to solve the problem with a new set of tubes. It's just an extra push on something you already like.
Durability and longevity matter too. In my experience Tung-Sol 7581A tubes outlast any current production 6L6GC tubes.
Same is true for EHX 6CA7 and Genalex KT77. They have far better longevity than other current production EL34, 6CA7, E34L and KT77 tubes.
Many tube amp owners often lookout for military issued tubes because they are more ruggedly built than consumer grade tubes and are able to withstand the rigours of live tours better.
It made a huge difference in my amp, but the tubes were really old. Tubes are light bulbs. They dim, and red plate etc. But if there's nothing wrong per say, why swap them out?
@@Maschine_Elf I've never really tried 6l6 tubes, but have been jumping back and forth between some different brands of EL34 tubes over the years. I recently had some issues with Tube Safety Control on my Hughes and Kettner and had to send it in to the repairmen and they put in some Electro Harmonics El34 Eh tubes and I had been using Tad or JJ, or some Mesa EL34's and I must say the for the speakers I'm currently using they rounded of the high frequencies nicely for my bright amp, pickup, and speaker combination, compared to the TAD EL34 I was using.
Different Tubes have different properties. They change the "reaction" of the circut. On a different circut design they may behave differently. So I would not expect that a difference on the mesa is the same in other amps. Maybe its interchanged and one tube sounds darker there.
What I wanted to say is, that the sound is NOT in the tube, but in the whole circut. And if you change a component in that, than the sound (may) changes.
Maybe you could achieve a similar sound difference when you replace a resistor with one that have 5% less or more Ohm.
I dont think that tubes have a different frequency response in the audio range. If we would talk about MHz thats a different story. I mean frequency response based on the working principle itself. Different capacites, inductivities and resistance and amplification factors can surely have an effect in the circut. Just like longer cables reduce the highs due to higher capacity.
But cool video again.
I literally saw the sky get darker during the video....thank you Kohle for using your precious time to make these videos to help us. really appreciated
Yessss!! Been so excited to get your take on this. Keep rockin out the good content dude!
I supose, EQ tweak might give you same tone despite differences in the tubes. If that the case, there is no reason to mess with the tubes and leave it to amp designers ;)
I also think that for the normal guitarist without tons of equipment the question of how EQ could compensate would be very interesting :-) Still great ear training though, thanks for the video.
@@q11v Easy method. Get the frequency response curve and then EQ your gear to the same curve. Get the sample of your favorite tone, play the same riff on your gear and try to match the EQ curve.
I'm glad you did this with real amps and real mics, because I don't feel that modelling amps really have the widest harmonic content compared to them. I also feel that if you have different brands say Electro Harmonics, Tad, and JJ you get even more of a drastic difference in sound. You should really consider doing one of these showing the differences between the three tube amp manufacturers. This doesn't even take into account shaping the sound with your preamp tubes, which can have a effect. Changing out one tube or such won't do much but if you shift them all from different tubes types and manufacturers it can. Not if your speaker is super dark you might not hear much difference, but if it is bright and you can hear the shifts in high end or whether one tube is more scooped in the mid's.
I always favored the 6l6 tubes. They all have good character to them.
@Kohlekeller Studio
Important to know: Mesa Color-Code has only the sense to clearify the pairing. It means nothing in sense of tonal or parametric differences. Because you should always put matched tubes in pair from the outside to the inside. Mesa already clarified this.
Dein Kanal ist echt Gold, auch für mich als Audio- und Rock/Metal-Freund ohne Gitarrenkompetenzen. Macht echt immer wieder Laune mit dir. :)
0:18 That LITTLE stop just hit so hard. Goes to show that it's not always about what you do play, but what you don't play that really gives feel, too.
I personally think people make way too much of a deal out of tubes/tube amps. This video just helps further confirm what I already believed in that the difference in tubes makes almost no difference to the tone, seems like nothing a few very slight turns on the amps EQ knobs would be doing at most. The negatives of tubes outweigh the benefits: inconsistent sounds on different power sources (one time i plugged in at a bar and it blew my tube right then and there), fragility during travel, having to replace them and then have someone bias the amp because it has new tubes, higher price to purchase just because its a tube amp. Yes, there are glorious tube amps out there that sound amazing. Modern day modeling from line 6, boss, headrush etc etc are truly amazing and just as good IMO. I think it would be impossible to distinguish the sound in a mix in a blind a/b test whether the guitar track was from a real cranked marshall mic'd up in a studio vs a good model of a marshall from top end modeler of choice with a great impulse response. I've seen several videos of a cheap boss katana sounding almost exactly the same as a marshall vintage studio head. I choose reliability and consistency.
The actual question is: is it worth to spend that much money in something that has a negligible difference in your sound? Especially when you have the amp's tonestack (and sometimes presence) to compensate? The character and overall frequency spectrum are still there, only with a small db difference in very specific ranges. My answer is no.
its the law of diminishing returns and i agree with you (im just a hobbyist guitar player myself) but there will always be those people to whom the 1-5% 'improvement' is worth it at any cost. EVH for example stopped at nothing to get what he had in his head out of a speaker
@@33catch33 EVH did a lot more than just change the valves, he changed the B+ voltage with a Variac.
In the studio, I reckon you could EQ the difference.
Live, it's loud AF, so you wouldn't hear it anyway.
@@Mikey__R true! He was a mad scientist! EVH was the definitive shredder. Every time I hear recordings of his playing: I’m humbled. Truely RIP :/
It's not a metal amp, but Mojave make an amp with a built in Variac. Eddie used to blow a lot of amps, people say because the valves ran with too low a voltage on the heaters, maybe that was part of the sound, but I certainly cant afford to revalve an amp too often. The Mojave amp doesn't have this problem.
But I also cant afford to buy the Mojave amp.
Bigger difference than i expected
Surefire way to make your guitar tone better: improve the bassist's tone
I got Mammoth for bass and my guitar tone’s never been better
Bass players are so underrated lol
Exactly!
Totally agree!
As a bass player, I endorse this message.
Such a subtle difference. After watching SMG Studios' video on tubes, I'm more worried about a tube's longevity.
Same, I watched SMG video first. I hardly heard a difference if at all to be honest.
Subtle but important. Kristian’s ears are much more refined than Glenn’s. If Glenn can’t hear the difference then that’s probably why he hasn’t mixed many successful records.
@@seamusmcsorley7638 You may be correct but It is possible that Glen used a dark speaker, meaning that it didn't have much high end reproducing capability but I don't remember what speakers he had in the test. I also didn't like how Glen ran his test through a load box instead of a real cab and real mic which I think gives more of a true representation of the amp do to the dynamic nature of both. Loadboxes are handy but they are pretty static in the equalization and any real mic cabinet always sounded better in my opinion.
Didn’t know that there are so many tubes classifications. Hell, i can only afford a Boss Katana. I learn something new today. As always great content! Keep it coming Kristian!
There is difference. But what most people fail to tell you is that they feel differently(at least it does on my Triple Rectifier) I bought mine and it came with the 6L6.I used it for 2 years like that and eventually swapped out for EL34s and it felt more compressed and tighter. I liked it more and have been running EL34s for 9yrs. But the biggest with the recto is cranking it up. It saturates a whole nicer in my opinion
I can't add anything new to previous comments, but EL34s sound unexpected good for solo stuff in Recto. Thanks to Kohle for such educational videos that make many assumptions clear (die auch nicht umsonst sind) after getting tube amps (im Haushalt).
I think the thing that makes this video better (if anything) than the @SpectreSoundStudios video is that we're hearing the same segment of guitar performance in the A/B comparisons, playing the exact same part on the different tubes. In Glenn's video they switch back and forth as the mix keeps playing. It is the same performance, but you never hear the exact same phrase played through the different tubes. This has been my main, and really only complaint about how Glenn does comparisons. But I think this video could have also benefited from a null test.
That said, watched together this video and Glenn's give a well rounded perspective on the subject of tube differences.
Seems that the subtle difference is negligible compared to what can be done with EQ-ing, pedals, or most importantly, different speakers.
Cheers mates! 🤘
Well spoken! I still don't care about null tests, but yeah, well spoken!
Yep, exactly what you said. I would also like to add to check the dimensions of tubes before buying them, or to check the distance between tube sockets because in my case (PRS MT15) I can not use KT66s as there is not even a milimeter of space between them when installed in the MT15 ... so keep that in mind, I will be selling my KT66s. And yes, the sound of the KT66s is basically the same as 6L6s.
I closed my eyes so that I would not know when the tubes were being changed and could not hear any difference in the audio whatsoever. I really like tests like this! thanks for putting it out there!
This is one of the BEST and educational TH-cam channels EVER. Period. I really love it.
Thanks man! Spread the world. There's quite a few people left missing this! ;)
I still love the EL34s the most. Thanks for the TAD tip-off! Take care :)
No null tests? FWIW, on the power tubes, you got a bigger difference than I did.
Didn’t your null tests prove there was a difference between the tubes you swapped? None of them completely nulled. “The difference is small but important.”
What do you need the null test for, if you can hear the difference? Trust your ears Glenn!
@@justiceforcier3853 expectations can easily fool your brain into hearing a bigger difference than there actually is, a null test is just a good way of filtering that out and judging the difference by itself, i think some ppl might have appreciated it on Kohle's video. But in the end, the best thing to do is to watch both videos and make up your own mind, regardless of what other ppl might say or think...
@@donitsdunkin1887 Thank you!
@@VoixObscure yeah I see what your saying. I watched Glenn’s video and didn’t notice as much as of difference as with kohl’s video.
I could hear the difference. Although I wonder if it would be equal difference between different tube sets, since you buy matched tube sets so you can bias them properly, which doesn't mean they're equal. So you might be disappointed if you bought the same tube set again and expected it to be the same.
I don't know how the rectifier autobias affects the test, regarding the designed operating voltages/plate dissipations and such, that are in my understanding a bit different between the tube models. Maybe it puts them right where the tube wants to sit? Gotta wonder if manual bias could make the difference even less pronounced. Or slight adjustment of front panel knobs. Or change in play style.
I'd actually love a test with only the same brand, same model tube sets to see if there's notable, audible differnce as well. For control reference you know? To know what we're really measuring and where it originates from. You already showed how just the volume you run the tubes changes the sound (which isn't a surprise since that changes the electrical conditions the tubes operate in), so gotta wonder if the differences could be balanced with volume adjustment. With cranked amp it was already pretty difficult to hear the difference, even though it was still easy to blindly tell where the clip changed.
With Bugera it was even more difficult. The first A/B I listened again with the window hidden and I had to go back a couple of times and then just look at the screen to see if there was two clips. When watching the screen I could recognize the difference, but without looking I thought it was just the playing dynamics in a single clip.
Is Tube Amp Doctor importing, matching and rebranding the same tubes that everyone else uses? That's a lot of production line manufacturers so I assume the reason for using TAD is something about reliability? For EL34 I heard David Friedman say it's almost impossible to find even tolerable units at all, and he's been thinking on going for other tubes like 6L6 just for the reliability issue. Him and a couple of other builders discussed the issue with preamp tubes as well, that they use chinese, sometimes rebranded tubes but the same stuff anyway, because they're the most reliable. But they still have to often use something different in the first stage (I recall EHX), but have to go through a big box of waste, because you need a low microphonics tube in that spot, and the chinese don't usually do that. Mostly it seems to be about realiability regarding tubes with the manufacturers, not really the tone. But surprisingly the reliability being in the china. In the end it's the three factories that produce everyone's tubes, seems like some brands filter through the pain before selling them, which is a major benefit to the consumer and probably worth a bit extra just so that you can bias the amp well.
Personally I'd buy an eq pedal over any tweaks with tubes and such, other than rebiasing the amp correctly. Manufacturers I understand tend to lean to the safer side on bias to avoid warranty issues and how are you even supposed to set up an amp that's being used in 10 european countries stating about the same mains voltage, but the actual voltage being all over the place. And even in US I've heard the voltage that says 120 can be like 112 or 127. Imagine the difference in sound. Boss eq-7 can make even more drastic tonal changes for like half the price of a matched power tube set. And it can help with the next set that sounds different than previous as well! An average tube set should last roughly 10 000 hours of playing so consider that if you plan on changing tubes every year or two.
Maybe you should do a video about preamp tubes in the future... Should be interesting because:
- everything that changes will be even more amplified by the following stages (especially when you switch the V1 preamp tube)
- opposed to your power tubes you actually drive the pre-tubes into saturation
You can even get an improvement of noise-to-signal ratio by just switching around preamp tubes against each other, by putting the least noisy one first, without even buying one new tube.
Dude. This blew the roof off everything I thought I knew about the difference between 6L6 and el34 tubes. This was a really fun watch! Thanks a billion for this!
You’re welcome! ❤️🍺
My Matamp’s are very sensitive to the gain of the v1 preamp tube and switching to a balanced 12AT7 in the phase inverter made a bit of difference with tightening things up. I found it was more sensitive to how I biased the power tubes more than which tubes of the same type (EL34) but the difference in the power amp was more noticeable with the volume cranked (which is how every Matamp and classic Orange OR should be played). I heard Dave Friedman say the circuit matters so much more than the power tubes being 6L6 vs EL34 and I’ll trust him. Speakers, cabinet construction, mic choice and placement matter much more.
Much bigger difference on non-M/V amps without cascading preamp gain than on high-gain amps, but you do hear differences in gain levels among different preamp tubes. Sometimes that alone can be good for adjusting the hair on an amp when EQ won't do or has a different effect than desired.
really love that test and explanation of the difference of tubes
I'd love to see this experiment with different preamp tubes. My favorite manufacturer makes 12AX7 tubes in various types that emphasize different frequency ranges. Power tubes on the other hand are all designed to be as neutral as possible. I have one amp set up with tubes with a midrange focus and another amp setup with full range tubes. The difference is more dramatic that anything I can hear based on power tubes.
6L6 vs EL34 sounds to me a little like the difference between coated vs clear Emperors on a 12-inch tom. The top and the 350-700hz range change.
I have an Egnator Rebel 20 amp head (among others). It has a tube blend knob that blends between 6V6 and EL84s. The differences there mirror your 6L6-vs-EL34 experiment. I often find myself using the middle of that adjustment as a "midrange character adjustment." It's not night-and-day but it definitely pushes tones towards my end goals!
3:54 Someone please create the meme! LOL! I love you Kristian! Don't ever change man!
From my Neumann monitor speaker, KT66 is the winner ! and in my other tube amps, KT's are also the winner
There you go, different valve (tube) models will change the tone slightly, not so much different brands of the same model. ALOT of people confuse the two I think. If they do sound different, they are hearing something that I am not. Remember that pretty much all "tubes" are made by the same company in Russia, except JJ, which are made in Slovakia. And China for some "no-brand" ones.
The actual circuitry and even the output transformer has a bigger impact on tone. The cab, speaker + mic also.
Indeed
Let's have output transformer shoutout ;c)
The cab maybe the biggest difference your gonna hear
Yes the amp is gonna give it the base sound of course
@* Yeah but the difference between the same type other manufacturer tube will be so little that it doesn't worth bothering. If you are swapping El34 to 6l6 then it's audible but then you need an amp tech to rebias the amp, unless you have a Bugera Infinium.
Good video. I agree with most if not all what was said. EL34 for singing leads and rock n roll, 6L6 for metal rhythm to get that size and clarity in palm-muted stuff. Very cool that you tested them cranked as well.
There are differences yes subtle its all about the amp,the preamp shapes the soound for,the most,part and the speakers will give you the most,noticeable differences its a tricky thing,to the guitar well pickups,pedal amp tube cab speaker Mic so on that takes a wealth of knkwledge thats what i love about this guy he has the know,how and pushs us past the learning curve
Thanks man!
Yes, different tubes do make a difference in tone. But it’s really pretty small. Where I notice the biggest difference is in the feel of the amp. Tight vs looser. Now it compresses in the low and low mids. The transient attack in the highs. Speakers make the biggest difference in tone.
I'd be interested in hearing the null test when you reverse the phase on one track so we can hear exactly what is different from the two.
whatch this on Spectre sound studios
I wonder where this idea got picked up from...
Glenn’s experiment was flawed, using a cab IR rather than an actual cab
Great video! Been a fan of the el34 in the recto for a while! I like how it compensates for the Mesa's scooped sound.
Exactly! It tames that Recto character in a good way.
I also like EL34s way better than 6L6s in a recto. Sounds way more focused.
Great experiment, good to have a reference point for e each valve classification.
Nice to hear the Bugera as well, definitely an amp to try!
I recently switched from Sovtek tubes to Russian made Mullards for output valves. I could hear a difference. In both tone and headroom. I played guitar and played the Beatles from my music player through the amp for the test. It was then that the differences were really noticed. I chose well. Very happy with my old Peavey Classic Stereo 50/50.
I liked that amp back then!
@@KohleAudioKult I drive it with amp styled over drive pedals. DIY PCB project stuff. Sounds killer!
There's difference indeed however it's not really dramatic. But, small changes in tone in every instrument really transforms the mix
Okay, I hear the differences. The difference between the 6L6GC-STR and EL34B-STR was quite obvious, but that's something expected because the 6L6GC is a beam tetrode while the EL34 is a true pentode.
The 5881WXT-R sounded a lot fizzy and harsh in the Rectifier. I ain't sure why they sounded so bad, because those tubes and their Russian military equivalents named 6P3S-E recieve a lot of praise from Soldano SLO users.
The KT66 sounded like a compromise between the 6L6GC and the EL34. It has EL34 like mids but it doesn't sound dark like the EL34. It sounds less bass heavy than the 6L6GC though.
As for my preference, I prefer Tung-Sol 7581a tubes in my amp. Deeper lows than a 6L6GC, and more detailed highs. And the most important thing, they last a lot longer than normal 6L6GC tubes.
The military grade NOS JAN Philips 7581a tubes are even better and last even longer, but they cost a fortune.
The old Mesa/Sylvania 6L6GC STR 415 tubes which are revered by Mesa users were lower quality civilian issue variants of the JAN Philips 7581a.
I swapped my 6l6s for EL34s for the reason you could hear in the first comparison.
The KT66 is the British version of the 5881. Used by Marshall for the second run of the JTM45
Great comparison examples side by side! For preamp tubes, the gain structure is effected more. When I change Mesa Boogie Triaxis from JJ to Mullard NOS (both 12AX7), the difference is more obvious than your Poweramp case. (Sorry for mentioned other brands, get to know Tube Amp Doctor from this video.)
I only use TAD and JJ tubes in my amplifiers. I've tried different tubes and for some reason they seem to perform tone wise in way that suits me. Probably just my ear, and the fact that they are good quality.
In some cases there are differences, but they are very subtle. All those differences will dissapear in the mixing so... The holy grail tube search was over some years ago for me. I use reliable tubes from trusted brands and that's it.
The differences were marginal but existed. What didn't surprise me was the impairment under heavy loads. Can you really say that it only comes from the power tubes? How do the output transformer or the loudspeakers behave when they have to work in borderline areas?
A similar effect can also be heard when the volume is too low. That's always exactly the one reason when I have to gamble with the FoH technician about the guitar volume ... :)
Nice video!
Cranking amps for metal is not a good thing most of the time!
It's important to understand what's happening sonically. For me it's not that important if it's the transformer or the tubes or something else causing this.
Super! I am just going thru all of your videos. It gets better every minute! Thanks!
Welcome! ❤️🍺
I prefer using EL34 amps (not marshalls tho) and use really high output pickup and boost infront of the amp, this way I get that nice bite and also that open tone! awesome video !
Before even watching? I will say I can hear the difference between a 6l6 and an el34 in the same amp. Though I prefer kt77 when I can help it. Nowhere near as drastic as changing out a cab, but still can be a certain tweak to your chain.
OK! Then you don't have to watch anymore ;)
Kohlekeller Studio I definitely still watched to support the channel. Also to make sure I’m not fooling myself
I'll just say try KT77s in that rectifier and I'll leave it at that.
KT88 makes magic with low end
@@MichaelLenz1 absolutely! Huge low end and great harmonics with the 88s
0:06 - Is that a Gibson Nighthawk? Criminally underrated guitar!
Absolutely. My favorite guitar for everything non metal!
I have the Epiphone reissue, in fireburst with a really nice top. It's a pretty quirky guitar, but I love it. It's small and light, and the coil split on the neck minihumbucker and the bridge humbucker give you a lot of options. It looks like they are selling now for more than their new price ($399), but a few years ago, you could get a used one for like $250.
@@Justin.Franks I've seen both the Gibson version and Epiphone version with a chickenhead knob on it that lets you switch between tones that I've always wanted. After doing a little research after watching this, apparently that's a common mod for the guitar. The one I played had that mod and I thought that was a standard feature.
@@nothingislogical The Blueshawk version has the Varitone stock.
My experience with Bugera 6260 pre infinium 12ax7 preamp tube swaps: It came with 3 same older Sovtek 12ax7 tubes, lacking more info on them, 1 Sovtek 12ax7wa, bit different than other 3 and 1 Marshall ecc83. When I am swapping them I can notice better or worse gain response on high gain channel. Only one configuration is what I like. Rest is too much gain even from tele's lipstick, hard to get good chugs. No change in tone itself but good, tight response vs always too much sizzle/not enough gain and very narrow gain sweet spot.
You‘re right... TAD are amazing....
I love they Tubes in my Laney AOR Series one.... ❤️
I love tube amps but i can’t help but feel amplifier technology has a TON of room for modernization, and i dont mean amp modeling. Modern overdrive/distortion pedals sound SO good and we are seeing more and more pedals designed to be used as a preamp: BE od depuxe, 5150 od, ksr ceres, diezel vh4, horizon apex. ...
Why is it that we havent seen more companies make solid state amplifiers that take advantage of some of the design techniques that make these pedals sound so good?
Cool. I think I need to learn to bias myself, so that I can have my own nerd fest. Now I got to go to the tech each time I want different tubes. Just went from EL34 to EHX 6CA7 in my Marshall JCM900 SL-X. I think it gave a bit more low end. But it's hard to compare after not having it for a week.
If you use the TAD tubes you just have to bias once. Then just order TAD tubes with the same values and switch between compatible tubes without any rebiasing.
@@KohleAudioKult Awesome, I definitely will try that!
I am surprised how much of a difference it actually makes! I was quite skeptical when reading through the comments before hearing the actual sound examples, but WOW!
FYI - I'm listening on some very nice Genelec 8030 Monitors so I can be sure that I am hearing all of the necessary details. I suppose the difference is not as clear when listening on some cheap monitors or headphones.
Danke das du dir die Zeit genommen hast die Vergleiche zu ziehen Kristian!
I think I much prefer the 5881 with this rif/example. Very clear sound and has a nice bite to it!
Good to know people still hear the details!
After that second melodic tune in the intro, I'm picturing Kohle crying into a glass of Rothaus at a Ü30 party while all the hot chicks are being swung around the dancefloor with some serious Discofox moves.
Haha! Die lassen mich aber auf der Ü30 Party schon nicht mehr rein!
I wish we could've heard more of the KT88; they're awesome in metal amps
I noticed a slight difference in my Peavey 6505+ head I changed from Groove tubes made in China to the Russian built Mullard tubes and the Hot lead channel to me was a lot more nicer sounding and less noisy meaning the highs were more controlled being more defined that is the difference it made in my amp. Cheers Kohle
Like the El-34 for the hi-gain and the 6L6 for the clean sounds...
Another superb demo here. I've seen one or two videos previously about running EL34s in a Recto but this time I really liked the results. Might have to try that in my Rectoverb combo now, I like how it tames the fizz a bit
Thanks! And yes, those 34s tame the fizzle if that's what you want.
wow! very interesting. I agree the el34 are more warm mid and the 6l6 are a little more glassy in the highs. I never noticed the cranked amp sound was that different now I need to test my amps at lower volumes. Thanks very much for sharing!
Glassy is a nice description!
Great video man! Being an amateur tube amp modder, I have spent more hours than I care to admit trying tubes and comparing! It’s worth noting that which amp you’re working with with make a huge difference in the way the various types of tube reacts and responds both in tone and feel! There are of course so many other factors that can change the way the different tube types vary such as power tube bias. I could go on and on but definitely worth trying different tubes to get some different tone out of the amps! Loved this video!
to me its not always the sound to consider. the feel and the room noise matters too, not just the end result on the mix. to me there is a different spongy feel to them, how fast they distort, the spikeyness. a bunch of factors. to me its like when a guy can get a great recording with a modeler and you play the same modeler with same setting and it just doesnt feel right. i just reamp it to get around that but there is something to be said about the small nuances of different tubes.
I love throwing EL34 in a 5150 or 6505+ it compliments that head which is naturally really bright almost too bright but with those tubes i find it to be perfect
A good amp to hear the difference is the jvm. You start changing out preamp tubes in that thing and you can hear the difference.
Man muss sich vor Augen halten, dass eine Röhre per se nicht klingt. Viel mehr bestimmen die Betriebsparameter und die Beschaltung der einzelnen Stufen den Klang eines Verstärkers. Bei den Endröhren eines Verstärkers spielt hier insbesondere die Lastimpedanz, die von der Lautsprecherbox gebildet und vom Ausgangsübertrager transformiert wird eine entscheidene Rolle. Die meisten 50 oder 100W Verstärker laufen typischerweise im Class AB Betrieb bei etwa 450 bis 500 Volt Betriebsspannung. Für einen solchen Betriebspunkt liegt der optimale Widerstand für eine EL34 bei etwa 3,4Kohm bei einer 6L6GC beträgt er 5,6Kohm, also etwa 60 Prozent mehr als bei der EL34 (Für die KT66 sogar 8Kohm).
Nun was bedeutet das ganze für die Praxis? Wird eine El34 in einen Verstärker eingesetzt der eigentlich für 6L6GC gedacht ist läuft die Röhre außerhalb ihres optimalen Betriebspunkt. Die Folgen sind eine geringere Ausgangsleistung, sowie mehr Klirr (Oberwellen) in Form von k2 und k3. Dadurch ändert sich entsprechend das gesamte Klangbild. Nun ist nicht jeder Verstärker gleich konstruiert, bzw dimensoniert dadurch lässt sich kaum ein allgemeiner Schluss ziehen was passieren wird, wenn der Röhrentyp geändert wird. Der Rectifier in deinem Video ist hierfür ein wunderbares Beispiel bei dem beträgt die Lastimpedanz umgerechnet etwa 4Kohm. 6L6GC als auch El34 arbeiten hier beide nie wirklich im optimalen Arbeitspunkt.
Der gleiche Effekt stellt sich übrigens auch ein, wenn der angeschlossene Lautsprecher an einen falschen Impedanz Abgriff gehängt wird.
Ein weiterer Punkt ist, der leider nicht erwähnt wurde, dass die El34, wie auch die KT88, oder die 6550 im Vergleich zur 6L6GC einen deutlich höheren Heizstrom ziehen. Das kann bei Verstärkern die keinen ausreichend dimensionierten Trafo besitzen zu Überlastung und schließlich zur Zerstörung des selbigen führen. Man sollte sich also vorher vergewissern, dass hier keine Schäden verursacht werden.
Meine persönliche Meinung ist zu dem ganzen Röhren Thema, dass es sich einfach nicht lohnt und man besser bei dem Röhrentyp bleibt, für den der Verstärker gebaut wurde. Lieber den Lautsprecher wechseln, oder ein gutes Eq Pedal in den Loop hängen, da kann man ganze Welten bewegen.
Ein zwei Anmerkungen habe ich noch:
1. Die Endstufenverzerrung kommt nicht aus den Endröhren, sondern fast ausschließlich aus der sogenannten Phasenumkehrstufe, die die Endröhren ansteuert.
2. Leider ist es keine Seltenheit, dass in einer Röhre nicht das drinn ist, was auf dem Glas steht. Gerade die KT66 ist davon oft betroffen, bei einigen Exemplaren steckt in Wahreit ein System der 6L6GC im Glaskolben. Gleiches Schicksal trifft auch die KT88 bei der auch gerne mal ein System der 6550 verbaut wird, obwohl diese aus elektrischer Sicht der KT88 unterlegen ist.
Gruß aus Norddeutschland.
Did you have any bias issues with your mesa and I know this can change the amps tone a great deal. Sorry I've had a lot of bad luck repairing peoples amps that have used these TAD tubes! I wouldn't recommend them there are many others that have proved themselves to me with there sounds and quality. Thanks for the video.
I used to be kinda bummed my first version Mesa Rect-o-verb didnt have the option to swap El34s for the standard 6L6 (that option was added in the 2nd version), but after listening to this, Im fine with the 6L6's. Thanks for doing this video.
Did the Rectoverbs really come with EL34s?
I thought the brandnew Rectifier was the first one with stock EL34s.
@@KohleAudioKult Sorry, I worded that shittily. It has 6L6's, and does not have the option to swap in EL34s like the later models.
Really cool video of showing the subtle (or not?) differences of the power tubes. Will there be one more focused on preamp tubes? :)
Yeah. That's on the list.
Just for the uninformed,
SMG's vid was switch X brand of A type of tube with Y brand of A type tube,
This vid is X brand of A type of tube with X brand of B type of tube
they do not provide conflicting information,
They don't... but since TAD is just rebranding and selecting (whatever criteria I have no clue) shiny glass bottles they still count as different brands to me. Because they used to be from different factories and therefore different brands.
@@dustrider9306 rebranding is a different subject and not relevant to my comment.
You're correct, yet Glenn still voiced his conclusion as "replacing tubes is not going to change anything significant" - his video's thumbnail even says "Tubes don't matter"... It's okay to be inconclusive due to lack of scope, it's not okay to spread misinformation. For me at this point is way more refreshing to see him humbled through his own tests, than to see him raging.
@@seenbelow REPLACING the same TYPE of tube is different than CHANGING the TYPE of tube in an amp.
Glenn's video also pointed out that replacing OLD worn out tubes that have something wrong with then with NEW tubes is also different than replacing the same type of tube with a different brand, which are mostly rebrands anyway.
Broading speaking, you tend to notice less difference between output valves in high gain amps as there is already a lot of saturation going on in the preamp stages. However, some amps just respond more to valve changes than others. OTOH, vintage amps such as plexi Marshalls, AC30s, Fender Bassmans and such get their overdrive from the output stage and therefore the output valves do seem to imprint more tonal effect and I certainly hear the differences between valve brands and types. Speaking of valve types, simply exchanging 6L6s and EL34s is not a great indicator as they do not bias the same - indeed, even the same brand of 6L6s will likely not bias the same between various matched sets. This in itself gives tonal variance and could well be all you are hearing. Also, 6L6s and EL34s use output transformers with different primary impedance, so its a compromise to have an amp that claims to use both. You will find that the amp will have been voiced with one valve type in mind, and the other option is an afterthought (and won't sound as good). There is no black and white answer. Sometimes an amp will sound much the same with any valve, with only a small change even when biased correctly. Other amps (like single channel JCM800s for instance) can be really picky with the difference between brands and NOS types. One JCM800 I had sounded the best (tightest) with some NOS Siemens (German) EL34s. I tried some old Mullard EL34s that were very warm and fat, but didn't have the tight, crisp bass and upper midrange bite of the Siemens EL34s. I've found AC30s to display notable tonal differences between brands of EL84 valves too. So do valve types and brands matter? Sometimes yes, sometimes no.
Thanks for the input!
Two things:
1.) TAD and me made sure the biasing was perfect for each set of tubes.
2.) I'm using the Bugera (which is a straight Plexi copy) in the video to show a vintage amp as well.
All I'm saying is: We did a lot of thinking and testing before doing the video.
This was exactly the tube test video that the internet needed!
FYI All Msea amps are fixed bias so you just change tubes and play. The color code is how hot or cold the bias is so that's why they want you to use their brand.
I know. They basically preselected. The selected premium tubes from TAD are still better.
That "tube is warmer" just sounds like the tube is pushed harder with the master knob. I'd say better go with attenuator instead of tubes - shape sound to your preferences and keep the volume in check. Otherwise, tubes are the last thing I'm looking for in my tone.
I replaced the 1 tube in my Rp7 valve effects proessor, and there was huge difference, it was even the same type of tube a 12ax7 but a different brand a JJ . Maybe since there was only 1 tube in the chain the difference was more pronounced, but i was really surprised how the saturated setting tighted up and became usable as a metal distortion whereas before it was a just a fizzy mess. That being said the cleans dont sound the same as i remember, they had a nice chime before that seems to be missing now, I could be mistaken so i'll put the old tube back to to make sure eventually. Kind of makes sense if a tube is good at distortion maybe its not so good for cleans and vice versa.
But you can "shape your sound in to the right direction" with the amp's controls and is easy. I didn't hear an "important" change of the sound with other tubes, i think those minimal changes you can do it with the dials.
Maybe you can do a comparison of tube sounds with or without led illumination at April 1st ...
Without going too crazy on methodology -- three groups of listeners: One just metal/rock fans. The other two are groups of guitar players. Before anyone hears anything, you have to match *measured* sound pressure levels at the listening position for each sample (because even 1db louder is going to be reported as "better") .
The control group is just asked "Which sounds better" to choose between the two samples.
Grp 1 is asked "which sounds better" but are told nothing about the amp, the tubes, the signal path. They only judge by the sound.
Grp 2 is told the signal path and which tubes are which.
For all groups, the order in which the samples are played is determined by coin toss.
I predict that grp 2 will have stronger opinions than grp 1 and be more likely to get into fistfights (if there are no fistfights, your listeners are clearly not metal enough. Give them more beer and tell them that the samples are pre-release from the new Trapt album).
The control group will be all over the map, but will have opinions. They should be supplied with beer and re-tested until the difference disappears or they pass out or stop fighting.
The videos of the tests are then posted on TH-cam.
What this test will measure is essentially how much fun it is to give metal heads beer and watch them fight.
What a wonderful post! Thank you so much!
Rectifier's gonna rectify
Not only. Tube rectifiers actually compress indirectly.
Lol, tube vs transistor rectifier probably is more important than tube vs transistor power sections, lol
@@Asgaia there's no real reason to use a valve rectifier, the V/I curve is pretty much a straight line so you can get a pretty good approximation with diodes and a power resistor. The switchable rectifier thing is really just a marketing gimmick.
/Rant
@* to be fair, every amp is an evolution on what was there before. Even Leo Fender took the generic reference designs from the tube data sheets, and added a tone stack to turn it into a guitar amp.
Great vid, I think the difference between the el34 and 6l6 you'd definitely hear in a mix. Essentially you'd have to eq the 6l6 less to get rid of the mud!
Yup we can hear the differences, when you get to a certain level of playing it matters at least for those who are searching for their tone.
To me, for high gain 6L6 all the way, but for ''cleans'' alltough that wasnt a total clean sound, EL34, but who cares about the cleans lol
Great video comparison! TAD is good, but I find various manufacturers also sound different, kinda something you have to research, and take into account when you realize what you want from your amp. And with some amps, you don't hear a big change.
Great points made both for and against, thank you!
Ya' know something, I have used, and gotten great results playing tube amps and SS/digital amps both on stage and in the studio through the decades, and in my experience, tube amps work much better for me on stage, likewise the SS/digital stuff is superior in the recording studio.
Night and Day tube comparison?
Try 12at7 in V1. Try 12ax7 in the PI...
Great video, as always Kohle :) l'm keen on your IRs - when are you releasing your pack?
I really liked this video. I would love to see a video comparing tube brands. I’ve heard the same amount of tone change from changing brands