I think the tone of it does. But where you can tell the difference is in the "body" of the tone I would say. Mainly the low end and less even soundingness.
Sounds great. No one can tell thru PA or a recording. But the feel, which only the player will know is always a big difference versus a real tube amp. Real amp resistors and tubes and etc are not always so identical on two of the same exact model amps
It is very close. I had to listen with headphones to tell the slight difference in the body. But if you're playing in a band setting, it is not really going to make a difference to the end user. It is not noticeably better in my opinion.
Really interesting. This has always been one of my favourite helix amps. Really great comparison video. Straight to the point. Crazy close on this model
This was a cool one. I personally think the differences were a little more noticeable on channel two. The top end got a little more "glassy" on the HX and the bottom end on the amp felt a bit more dynamic. I may have preferred the amp slightly but if you heard either one without the other you'd still call it a killer tone.
Thank you for the amazing and not overpersonalized comparison video. My humble opinion - LINE 6 did one one the best amp modelling job with Matchless model, and you prove it to me even more. I have about a dozen published tracks recorded with this Helix model and different guitars - it sits in the mix exactly as I wanted and expected. Going to buy your IR’s.
That fits exactly with what's going through my head at the moment. I initially wanted to buy a second Tonex so that I could use both as a stereo pair in the Helix floor, but some, not all, models in the Helix are so good that they can easily keep up with the Tonex. So I'm going to loop in an HX Stomp instead, which will then provide the stereo amp setup and leave the Helix with enough headroom for capo and overflowing effects. Many thanks for this confirmation of my thoughts.
Thanks for commenting! The guys a Tone Junkie did a video asking whether using Tonex with Helix was an ‘upgrade’. Their findings were that the Helix amp models sounded as good as the tonex captures. Maybe not exactly the same, but not worse. One piece that I think would be fun to experiment with alongside helix is the UA Ox Stomp. The UA cab modeling is very good.
I've seen the video but wasn't completely convinced yet as I have a few captures on the Tonex that are really hard to recreate. Your Gen2 could fix that :). The Ox thing is appealing but I have to be careful with the latency. I use two stereo loops, one for the HX Stomp and the other for a BigSky. I'm at about 6-7ms (Helix+Stomp+Loop1+Loop2). That's why I don't use an Eventide H90. With its 5 ms it would tip things over.
Wow I’m impressed with how close real amp vs amp model is. Almost identical. I can hear a hairline difference of a tad more warmth from the real vs model but barely unnoticeable
I have a 2023 Matchless HC30 head with matching 2x12 speaker cabinet and I absolutely love it. I use the Fryette ps100 attenuator with it and it works like a dream! 🔥
Love the comparison! I know what matters is what it sounds and feels like, but the geek in me is curious to see what differences come out using a null test.
@slay1288 1 month ago Sounds great. No one can tell thru PA or a recording. But the feel, which only the player will know is always a big difference versus a real tube amp. Real amp resistors and tubes and etc are not always so identical on two of the same exact model amps
I’m a professional sound engineer. The only thing I noticed is that the line 6 signal sounded marginally brighter. But that’s something easily tweaked. What’s “better” is subjective. Hard to tell watching through a Samsung TV but it was evident that matchless brought some organic warmth to its timbre but through the Line 6, it felt a little “thinner”. Could probably be tweaked at 100Hz and below on the IR/Line 6. Still amazing though. Appreciate the demonstration 🙏🏼
Listened with my Alclair Studio 4's and I felt like the real amp had more of an organic/thicker sound than the Helix. But in a mix it would never be noticed. We run a Digico Q338 and a Waves rig at our church and I add the Digico Tube drive on the channel and the Waves BB Tubes to give our guitarist a warmer tone.
It's pretty darned close, but... something about the natural warmth of the amp that is noticeable especially when fully loaded with all the effects. I am listening on my JBL studio monitors. The Helix seems to add a layer of brightness that is not present with the amp but adds that "digital" edge to color the sound. It can probably just be tweaked a little more... or maybe apply the Global EQ to roll off some of the top end and maybe boost the low-mid a little to add warmth. But overall, it is a really good emulation for what it is.
They sound almost identical - I can't tell the difference. Most people in the audience will never be able to tell the difference - especially when it's in the mix. I've got the Line 6 Pod Go and I've downloaded some of your patches. It's sufficient for what I need.
Helix seemed brighter and not as smooth to me. But i wonder if thats because the high and low cuts were off on the helix and a real amp doesnt go much higher than like 5k-6k. Overall very very close! Both sounded great!
I love them both the real amp compresses the highs more than the helix especially with overdrive! But they BOTH sound good so they BOTH are good! And I’m a 65 bandmaster into cab m and captor 8 guy on Sunday mornings.
Sounds **really** close to me - the real amp sounds ever so slightly darker and smoother. I think I prefer it, but I wouldn't say its "better" than the Helix.
#HOLDUP!!! *Talk about that high pitch squilling noise coming from the amp at **#timepoint**: **11:10**. I have the same issue from a marshall and the crunch channel of my REVOLT, when I have these digital pedals plugged into the signal chain. WTH IS THAT?*
Great comparison... not amp related but I thought the mono delay/reverb sounded really good!!! Like reconsidering my NEED for all those stereo effects when playing live kinda good... save a bunch of DSP and almost no one will notice that the delays aren't in stereo or that the modulation of my reverb isn't swirling L/R..
Between tube and modeling big difference is the compression and feel as you play and hear the amp. I have a helix and it’s great when played loud enough. I have a champ ri and it sounds much better than the model. Helix varies in quality by model though.
@@bmitchellmusic For sure. However, the whole goal of the modeler is to replicate an amp micd up with the speaker. So it would be fair to compare that way. For a separate video. 😉
Channel 1 was very very similar, the real amp took overdrive a bit better, had warmer harmonics. But honestly, both sounded rad. Channel 2 the real amp sounded noticably better to me, especially taking reverb. I was listening with Bower and Wilkins PX7 S2e lossless.
It does makes me think like if I would use a difrent amp sim but the same IR could I get some what the same result ? I mean like would I hear it in a song mix? drums bass etc.
Yeah they're a little different. The TM2 IRs that come with the '94 C-30 preset start with the 121+SR25 IR from that Match V30 pack, but then we do the extra EQ Tone Match on top of it to make the HX amp model sound even closer to the actual amp (a different IR for each channel). So if you had the IR pack, you'd basically get all the different microphone options, but without the extra EQ tone match.
I’ve always said… the age old “amp or modeler” question is easy. Over audio file I think they are basically identical… but you’ll just never replace the LIVE FEEL you get of a live amp feeding into a speaker and pushing air into your body lol. You just can’t. Impressive modeling tho 🤙
You can just feed the modeler into a good FRFR cabinet and you will have the sound and feel. The only real problem is latency. If you don’t insert too many effects in the modeler loop, that will normally reproduce with 2ms of latency which at end will be virtually the same as the amp feel in your hands when you play.
I played this in my car and my speakers are super revealing and it’s different. But not so different you can’t fine tune and match it but you need speakers to help
Not a complaint as the Helix models are fantastic but it doesn’t sound as good as a real amp specifically in the room. There is a huge difference playing a real amp in the room compared to a modelled one through an FRFR. Problem is this feeling and sound difference never comes across via a recording on TH-cam. You touched on this a while ago and is the reason Line 6 brought out the Powercab to make the modeller feel and sound like a real amp.
That’s true. And I believe it’s almost entirely down to volume. Tube amps are just so insanely loud. If you amplify your modeler to similar volumes, you get the same effect.
It hasn't been the clean or even dirty tones that don't sound almost unnoticeable from real vs digital. It's always been the higher gain stuff that has the issues. I own the HX stomp. Have owned the POD and hell the guitar port too. They are great for what they do. But the movement of air from a pushed tube amp being mic'ed up always sounds better. Otherwise every touring band would be using digital to tour with. Cheaper, less weight to carry all around. I own the Neural plugins as well. They are great for what they do. But again, bands aren't recording albums with these things. I'd say jmo. But the last statement is a fact. 😅 let the hate consume you.
We tested that in this video, for both channels of the amp. Do you feel like the Helix didn't keep up when we introduced gain? They sounded really, really close to us.
@@worshiptutorials Not that Helix couldn’t keep up, but at high gain Helix amps starts veering off the path of the amp it is modeling pretty fast. It’s still a decent sound, but it doesn’t sound like the original amp anymore.
@@jlcox Not to debate, but I CANNOT imagine how you could feel that way! I'm monitoring this video through a set of $500 boutique mixing headphones I could BARELY hear any difference at all. And as stated, the slight differences that are there are not better/worse. Just different.
@@taylorclayton3402 yeah my main point is that’s how I feel lol. I have a lot of experience and time with Helix and it just adds too much of its own color at high gain for my liking. There’s always the “you can’t tell the difference in a mix” and that’s true, but there’s a difference to ME, and that’s okay. I still love Helix, just not for high gain applications.
Noooooo. Doesn’t sound the same. The amp sounds way better. Can k tell you why I can never like presets enough? Because my guitar sounds good and I just want a device that nails the sound of my guitar first and then dresses it up with effects. And seldom do I ever find anything that does it justice.
That depends completely on what kind of speaker you plug them into. The real amp is super loud, but helix can be, too if you plug it into a power amp and a speaker.
So do you think Helix sounds as good as the real amp? Let us know 👇🏻
I think the tone of it does. But where you can tell the difference is in the "body" of the tone I would say. Mainly the low end and less even soundingness.
Sounds great. No one can tell thru PA or a recording. But the feel, which only the player will know is always a big difference versus a real tube amp. Real amp resistors and tubes and etc are not always so identical on two of the same exact model amps
It is very close. I had to listen with headphones to tell the slight difference in the body. But if you're playing in a band setting, it is not really going to make a difference to the end user. It is not noticeably better in my opinion.
NO
I love these comparisons to original gear. These are the kinds of experiments people without 30 amps will never be able to do ourselves.
Really interesting. This has always been one of my favourite helix amps. Really great comparison video. Straight to the point. Crazy close on this model
This was a cool one. I personally think the differences were a little more noticeable on channel two. The top end got a little more "glassy" on the HX and the bottom end on the amp felt a bit more dynamic. I may have preferred the amp slightly but if you heard either one without the other you'd still call it a killer tone.
For not having touched every single amp setting in the Helix, there's no question about getting these amps to be identical. Both sound great.
Dang…didn’t expect the helix to really be that close! Very impressed
That's literally what the Helix is for. What did you think it did? 😜
Just what I was looking for.Thank you
yep, i would love more videos like this. thanks Brian!
Thank you for the amazing and not overpersonalized comparison video. My humble opinion - LINE 6 did one one the best amp modelling job with Matchless model, and you prove it to me even more. I have about a dozen published tracks recorded with this Helix model and different guitars - it sits in the mix exactly as I wanted and expected. Going to buy your IR’s.
Wow… It really does sound so incredible. I appreciate all you guys do.
YAAAASSSS! MORE VIDEOS LIKE THIS!!!
This is crazy! Super well done video -
Love this series!
In that case, we need to make this a series 😅
My favorite model. I've ordered real tube preamp based on 2nd channel of C-30 just because love it.
That fits exactly with what's going through my head at the moment. I initially wanted to buy a second Tonex so that I could use both as a stereo pair in the Helix floor, but some, not all, models in the Helix are so good that they can easily keep up with the Tonex. So I'm going to loop in an HX Stomp instead, which will then provide the stereo amp setup and leave the Helix with enough headroom for capo and overflowing effects. Many thanks for this confirmation of my thoughts.
Thanks for commenting! The guys a Tone Junkie did a video asking whether using Tonex with Helix was an ‘upgrade’. Their findings were that the Helix amp models sounded as good as the tonex captures.
Maybe not exactly the same, but not worse.
One piece that I think would be fun to experiment with alongside helix is the UA Ox Stomp. The UA cab modeling is very good.
I've seen the video but wasn't completely convinced yet as I have a few captures on the Tonex that are really hard to recreate. Your Gen2 could fix that :).
The Ox thing is appealing but I have to be careful with the latency. I use two stereo loops, one for the HX Stomp and the other for a BigSky. I'm at about 6-7ms (Helix+Stomp+Loop1+Loop2). That's why I don't use an Eventide H90. With its 5 ms it would tip things over.
I think the Helix has a little bit more high ends but its super close. Both sounds excellent.
Wow I’m impressed with how close real amp vs amp model is. Almost identical. I can hear a hairline difference of a tad more warmth from the real vs model but barely unnoticeable
I have a 2023 Matchless HC30 head with matching 2x12 speaker cabinet and I absolutely love it. I use the Fryette ps100 attenuator with it and it works like a dream! 🔥
Very impressive. Can’t really see a difference. They are so so close! Wow!
This is a good vid. Thanks for the IRs
Love the comparison! I know what matters is what it sounds and feels like, but the geek in me is curious to see what differences come out using a null test.
Good stuff, Brian!!!
@slay1288
1 month ago
Sounds great. No one can tell thru PA or a recording. But the feel, which only the player will know is always a big difference versus a real tube amp. Real amp resistors and tubes and etc are not always so identical on two of the same exact model amps
I’m a professional sound engineer. The only thing I noticed is that the line 6 signal sounded marginally brighter. But that’s something easily tweaked.
What’s “better” is subjective.
Hard to tell watching through a Samsung TV but it was evident that matchless brought some organic warmth to its timbre but through the Line 6, it felt a little “thinner”. Could probably be tweaked at 100Hz and below on the IR/Line 6.
Still amazing though. Appreciate the demonstration 🙏🏼
Listened with my Alclair Studio 4's and I felt like the real amp had more of an organic/thicker sound than the Helix. But in a mix it would never be noticed. We run a Digico Q338 and a Waves rig at our church and I add the Digico Tube drive on the channel and the Waves BB Tubes to give our guitarist a warmer tone.
I'm gonna try and dial this one in, since I went back to HX amps I've been using the Litigator
It's pretty darned close, but... something about the natural warmth of the amp that is noticeable especially when fully loaded with all the effects. I am listening on my JBL studio monitors. The Helix seems to add a layer of brightness that is not present with the amp but adds that "digital" edge to color the sound. It can probably just be tweaked a little more... or maybe apply the Global EQ to roll off some of the top end and maybe boost the low-mid a little to add warmth. But overall, it is a really good emulation for what it is.
Perhaps just add the reel for saturation and you’re good.
They sound almost identical - I can't tell the difference. Most people in the audience will never be able to tell the difference - especially when it's in the mix. I've got the Line 6 Pod Go and I've downloaded some of your patches. It's sufficient for what I need.
timepoint 12:43 WHAT IS THAT HIGH BUZZING NOISE?????? HOW DO YOU GET RID OF THAT?
The Line 6 seems a touch brighter and "more tame" or smoother. But no, they don't sound very different and I wouldn't say "better" in any way.
Helix seemed brighter and not as smooth to me. But i wonder if thats because the high and low cuts were off on the helix and a real amp doesnt go much higher than like 5k-6k. Overall very very close! Both sounded great!
All the helix is missing is a tiny, tiny bit of warmth. No one would notice without the two side by side going back and forth between them like this.
Reel effect would help with that
I love them both the real amp compresses the highs more than the helix especially with overdrive! But they BOTH sound good so they BOTH are good! And I’m a 65 bandmaster into cab m and captor 8 guy on Sunday mornings.
Sounds **really** close to me - the real amp sounds ever so slightly darker and smoother. I think I prefer it, but I wouldn't say its "better" than the Helix.
#HOLDUP!!! *Talk about that high pitch squilling noise coming from the amp at **#timepoint**: **11:10**. I have the same issue from a marshall and the crunch channel of my REVOLT, when I have these digital pedals plugged into the signal chain. WTH IS THAT?*
Wow!
Helix just has this digital fizz that’s in every model it’s noticeable when you hit it with overdrive
Maybe it's because of my bad headphones, but I liked the Helix Model even more...
Great comparison... not amp related but I thought the mono delay/reverb sounded really good!!! Like reconsidering my NEED for all those stereo effects when playing live kinda good... save a bunch of DSP and almost no one will notice that the delays aren't in stereo or that the modulation of my reverb isn't swirling L/R..
Between tube and modeling big difference is the compression and feel as you play and hear the amp. I have a helix and it’s great when played loud enough. I have a champ ri and it sounds much better than the model. Helix varies in quality by model though.
I love my Hx stomp
Would love to hear the comparison with the amp micd up, rather than the Capturex IR.
Sure but we are purely talking about the amp. Using the IRs meant we were comparing amp to amp. Not amp and IR to amp and speaker.
@@bmitchellmusic For sure. However, the whole goal of the modeler is to replicate an amp micd up with the speaker. So it would be fair to compare that way. For a separate video. 😉
Now let’s hear the difference between capture x and putting mic’s on the amp
There’s more clarity in the strings in the real amount and the helix gets muddy 😊
Did you use the same IRs in the captor and the helix? Or did the helix get different tone matched IRs than the captor?
Same exact IR’s. We covered it pretty in depth in the setup part of the video 👍🏻
Digital has definitely come a long way.
Channel 1 was very very similar, the real amp took overdrive a bit better, had warmer harmonics. But honestly, both sounded rad. Channel 2 the real amp sounded noticably better to me, especially taking reverb. I was listening with Bower and Wilkins PX7 S2e lossless.
It does makes me think like if I would use a difrent amp sim but the same IR could I get some what the same result ? I mean like would I hear it in a song mix? drums bass etc.
Are these IR's different than the TM2 that come in the Tone Pass?
Yeah they're a little different. The TM2 IRs that come with the '94 C-30 preset start with the 121+SR25 IR from that Match V30 pack, but then we do the extra EQ Tone Match on top of it to make the HX amp model sound even closer to the actual amp (a different IR for each channel).
So if you had the IR pack, you'd basically get all the different microphone options, but without the extra EQ tone match.
I’ve always said… the age old “amp or modeler” question is easy. Over audio file I think they are basically identical… but you’ll just never replace the LIVE FEEL you get of a live amp feeding into a speaker and pushing air into your body lol. You just can’t. Impressive modeling tho 🤙
You can just feed the modeler into a good FRFR cabinet and you will have the sound and feel. The only real problem is latency. If you don’t insert too many effects in the modeler loop, that will normally reproduce with 2ms of latency which at end will be virtually the same as the amp feel in your hands when you play.
I played this in my car and my speakers are super revealing and it’s different. But not so different you can’t fine tune and match it but you need speakers to help
Not a complaint as the Helix models are fantastic but it doesn’t sound as good as a real amp specifically in the room. There is a huge difference playing a real amp in the room compared to a modelled one through an FRFR. Problem is this feeling and sound difference never comes across via a recording on TH-cam. You touched on this a while ago and is the reason Line 6 brought out the Powercab to make the modeller feel and sound like a real amp.
That’s true. And I believe it’s almost entirely down to volume. Tube amps are just so insanely loud.
If you amplify your modeler to similar volumes, you get the same effect.
It hasn't been the clean or even dirty tones that don't sound almost unnoticeable from real vs digital. It's always been the higher gain stuff that has the issues. I own the HX stomp. Have owned the POD and hell the guitar port too. They are great for what they do. But the movement of air from a pushed tube amp being mic'ed up always sounds better. Otherwise every touring band would be using digital to tour with. Cheaper, less weight to carry all around. I own the Neural plugins as well. They are great for what they do. But again, bands aren't recording albums with these things. I'd say jmo. But the last statement is a fact. 😅 let the hate consume you.
🙏🙏🙏🙏❤
I'm going to sleep good tonight lol.
It’s all the same until the drums start playing…and then it’s all the same again…😂😂😂
So close the difference doesn't matter...tube amps are history
I think the real amp is slightly warmer.
You should sell the Matchless and you get some extra bucks for you or someone close to you or give it to charity/Ukraine.
They really sound the same.
You cannot match this! Listen up.. it’s matchLESS!!!! 😂
It all sounds similar until you introduce gain. The same problem Helix has always had and the same problem that makes me dislike Helix amps.
We tested that in this video, for both channels of the amp. Do you feel like the Helix didn't keep up when we introduced gain? They sounded really, really close to us.
@@worshiptutorials Not that Helix couldn’t keep up, but at high gain Helix amps starts veering off the path of the amp it is modeling pretty fast.
It’s still a decent sound, but it doesn’t sound like the original amp anymore.
@@jlcox Not to debate, but I CANNOT imagine how you could feel that way! I'm monitoring this video through a set of $500 boutique mixing headphones I could BARELY hear any difference at all. And as stated, the slight differences that are there are not better/worse. Just different.
@@jlcox And by the way, I own Helix, Fractal AX3, Kemper, & TONEX... So I'm not biased... :) but to each their own!
@@taylorclayton3402 yeah my main point is that’s how I feel lol. I have a lot of experience and time with Helix and it just adds too much of its own color at high gain for my liking. There’s always the “you can’t tell the difference in a mix” and that’s true, but there’s a difference to ME, and that’s okay. I still love Helix, just not for high gain applications.
Noooooo. Doesn’t sound the same. The amp sounds way better. Can k tell you why I can never like presets enough? Because my guitar sounds good and I just want a device that nails the sound of my guitar first and then dresses it up with effects. And seldom do I ever find anything that does it justice.
which one moves the air better?
That depends completely on what kind of speaker you plug them into.
The real amp is super loud, but helix can be, too if you plug it into a power amp and a speaker.
U think this is close try fractal
… for real
At this point you're splitting hairs. If it's indistinguishable, then modeling is doing it's job to a T.
That’s the point ;)
Does it sound close? Yes
Does it sound as good? No
First
who would vote this down?
i can hear a diffirence , but its prety close.