Here's my 2 cents..after 20 years of professional tattooing. I used coils in conjunction with needles I made myself(carbon needles primarily -NTA4's from national..theyre japanese carbon needles..very precise as opposed to the more typical carbon needles) stainless tubes and an rca jack instead of traditional clipcord, for 16 years. I started using rotaries, or I should say tried using rotaries about 4-6 years ago. First I was using InkMachines Dragonflies with my steel tubes and My needles..The thing I liked initially with that setup was how precise I could be with small intricate designs..I struggled with how slow they could be with bigger pieces and honestly didnt like the lack of weight..I also liked how the quiet didnt bother me. And also also they could put in heavy lines solid but slower. When I started delving into cartridges, I loved the simplicity and convenience and sanitary aspect...I pretty much dumped all my mental resources into using carts..and although i felt like I have always struggled with them I stuck with it because regardless my work was getting cleaner and more consistent. Then I stumbled on John Clark's magnetic rotaries and everything changed..Once I got them working(which took a lot of tweaking) I used that initial Mag rotary almost exclusively for a few years..I have dabbled in every type of rotary with carts in that time leading up to present day..Inkjecta, Swashdrive, Stigma, Dragonly, hardlife gambler pen, valhalla, Fk irons pen, DK sidewinder. What i have currently for carts alone is a Hard LIfe Omni V1 and the ink machine Scorpion. In my opinion I prefer the omni with carts over any direct rotary Ive used(Im using it with a 5mm stroke) and a small 22mm reusable cart grip.. The scorpion is by far the best pen, at least for me, mostly because its very simple and powerful and the grip is small(22mm). But the Omni is just better overall. There is a lot I could say to support that as not only my opinion, but an objective fact , but Im pushing it just writing this!! I also have my John Clark Brass mag rotary from his original lineup and a more recent aluminum frame mag rotary from John. I also have a Centri Evader which is a more modern lighter aircraft aluminum mag rotary( he is a John as well, And gave JOhn Clark credit for the idea) That having been said, I prefer using The Clark mag rotaries as my main liners and color packers. I like the Centri Evader for fine technical designs that I want to take my time with( Im using it with the longest stroke possible and it hits sooo fucking smooth,,but its slow). Ive given up on using cartridges with these machines..and NO plastic grips either anymore.. I use a stainless grip from Good Luck Irons( Filip Leu )and stem with disposable clear plastic precision tips that are frigging fantastic..I also use disposable metal tubes for some lining, but the shaders are perfect( from Ultra Tubes at Worldwide Tattoo supply) with Stainless grips. I Wrap the grips with plastic and sensi wrap for Easy cleaning and just stable, low vibration..And most important is Im using conventional needles again..I still make needles and Im playing around with good alternatives tot the carbon needles I love,,,but as far as premade needles the only needles Ive found that I like are the Workhorse Premades..No frills textured needles that are never tight. That's a whole other ball of wax..but in essence the industry on a whole makes them too fucking tight!!! Ill probably just end up using my own groupings in the years to come, because the bars are just lightyears better. I almost forgot,,,Im also using coils, but in conjunction with the mag rotaries..mix and match,,depending on the tattoo..Stylistically Im all over the place, for better or worse. At the end of the day Im a technical person and I have an immense affinity for all things tattooing..I also still make my own full range of colors..I think just having a handle on all the little details that encompass tattooing can only be beneficial. To sum it up I prefer coils but the mag rotaries cant be beat for fast clean solid linework and are super adjustable(allbeit a serious learning curve) But I almost think that using Conventional needles, really good quality needles premade or selfmade needles, is more important regardless. I just dont ENJOY using carts with anything but the omni and only for small tattoos. The enjoy part, is more and more my focus these days as I get older..I should also mention I like small grips and heavy machines that fall off the back of my hand,,Im used to the balance and I dont mind the noise or vibration...Its almost peaceful. No hand issues..(luck or technique? lil of both?) Hope that helps or makes sense,,Im tired:>
Just to say...you well know your way and i like the fact that i understand all you say..especially the needle thing..!! I rather spend my time doin my own neddles..i dont care about my friends tellin me that im crazy!!
My thoughts on this subject is that it’s not so much on how the needle leaves but how it enters skin! With coil systems, the main thing I feel gives a advantage over the rotarys is the fact that it has for a lack of better words a bullwhip effect. Basically breaks the surface tension caused by the elasticity of the skin hence less trauma caused to the skin, while the rotary has a rolling effect and less of a punch which needs a bigger force by the user to physically push the needles in the skin to break the tension which will undoubtedly traumatize the skin more then needed to achieve the same results. Ps: love the series!
Most often I try to use all three (coil, rotary, pen) machines for almost every tattoo I do to achieve an almost mixed medium affect. Each machine should be respected equally simply because one does what the others can Not do based on the geometry, force distribution and weight (feel) that each one uniquely owns. When it comes to the design of each (engineering, specifications and metals then that’s a different story. There are cheap poorly made pieces of junk and there are jewels in every type of machine. I’m just thankful our palette of goods keeps expanding. I’ve tattooed and continue to for over 30 years now and still feel blessed and driven. Awesome show btw
Always learning thanks to you guys!!!! I've been tattooing for 15 years plus, I switched to rotaries bout 5 years ago, and I feel way more efficient now, probably because of a lack of knowledge about coils... I may switch again thanks to this series of episodes... thanks again for all your efforts to educate all of us!!!! Take care
Finally I knew you where the smartest podcast when you talked about how with needle carts there not attatched and move and no one else even understood wh n I asked that question
Carson I love your neuma 4 it’s the only pen we’re I’m tattooing and I get in that autopilot mode we’re I’m tattooing so fast and so efficiently I can just stop thinking of how my machine functions but getting the tattoo done
Coils are still my go to for lining and small shading part, been using them for a long time the only thing I like about rotaries is the weight and the cartridges
Congrats. You should also come over to the Reinventing the Tattoo app. If you use the promo code Jake gave, you get 10%. That is less than a dollar a day....(shameful RiT plug).
@@Sirlordnoob like any machine, you need an understanding of needle skin interaction. This machine will give you the ease and mostly maintenance free of a rotary, with the efficiency of a coil. It is definitely a tool you need in your arsenal.
round 12 years tattooing now i used/tuned/rebuilt my coils for the first 5-6 years and slowly moved to rotarys I couldn’t line with them to start off but as they have progressed i line just as well as i would coil, and rotary is a lot lighter and more balanced, saving RSI in the rist ,
I had works for over 15 years with a Mickey Sharps Telephone Diale and will it never get back.Now i had no pain in my Arms and i dont hear the loud noise from the metal coil.the best is i need no more all the cables and its more save for my customers and no rubberbands.the cardridges are like the best modification:more Save,faster change for different module.i would say its the best ever that we has on the Tattoo Market.everybody they like oldschool can do what he wont.but my opinion ist for me the best and makes sense.when all gets easy for us tattoo artist why make it hard ????
In my opinion, if coil maschin were easier and in a different enclosure, they would definitely stick, Carson will definitely remember something.Amazing video.
Really looking forward to this series, I definitely don't use a coil any more, although I understand the appeal especially for lining I don't feel. It's worth the extra effort. My flux can handle my. jobs just fine
I personally struggled making the change to rotary machines. Lining was the worst. I found it slowed my whole process down. Which has its benefits. Since I started using the Neuma4, I have seen my efficiency return. I laughed when I was running a long line at my old speed. It was like seeing an old friend. Definitely a machine everyone should purchase.
@@citifolk what do you like about it, I have been spoiled by the freedom and cordlessness if the flux. I do want a backup machine. I was considers a bishop wand and the critical battery but now I'm interested in the machine you mentioned
I recently joined the wireless gang. The 20% cam is as easy to line with as any coil I've ever used. 33% cam saturates easy and butter smooth. I'm not dissing Franco and Bishop, they are amazing machines. I own many. Likewise with Gaston at FK. However, this machine feels better. Tattoos that took 4hrs, take 3hrs. Just my experience with the machine. Also, I'm waiting on Bishop to send me a battery pack so I can review and compare the 3 main branded battery supplies. I am going to tear them down and test them. See if going away from yhe traditional power supply is actually harming the machines.
my 1st year tattooing i used coil, then saw online chinese seller selling rotary machines, after i used it never been to back to the coil, i think rotary heals faster.
@@Nick889999 you are missing the point. No one is saying you can't pull a super clean line with a rotary. The point is, the efficiency of coils are far superior when it comes to skin/needle relationship. I recommend you look at sine wave graphs Carson has up on his website to better understand.
@@citifolk alright fair enough, but at the end of the day i don’t think that that alone is worth all the bullshit that u have to go through with coils. All the maintenance and tuning aint worth it for me. Used coils for 2 years and then went right back to rotaries. All the trouble shooting with my coil in the middle of my appointments + constant maintenance n tuning just isn’t worth it. I just wanna plug my machine in and have it work consistently.
Don't we naturally produce give with a rotary by way of how we move our hand anyway? It certainly doesn't create bog but nothing we use (pencil, pen, marker, etc -- i.e. drawing tools) that creates artwork works like a coil anyway. A coil machine is perhaps the most unique tool to create art. So in that sense, if you like that sort of thing, a coil is where it's at. But personally I still prefer rotary because there is less guess work as well as less maintenance and typically lighter. I don't want to hold a brick the whole time I'm working on someone. haha. Anyway, What do you guys think? What's your personal preference and why?
I first went to rotaries as I had a pretty unhelpful apprenticeship, had to self teach, and it was one less thing to have to learn when there was already so much to juggle. I have never really found them great for lining, and after using a DK Sidewinder (although technically a rotary I guess?), I found my lining heaven. I’ve tried to bust out the rotaries for lining since, but I’ve still not really cracked it. 🤷🏻♂️
I started with coils, I use rotary now. I have to say my personal opinion it just depends on what kind of art you're throwing down and what you're exactly doing. Personally I love a rotary for color packing and line work, I lovveeeeeee a coil for any kind of shading BUT if you are beginning with little knowledge you WILL fuck your shit up with a rotary. A coil is just much more forgiving.
The thing with coils is basically that the coils have to be made outta copper and the few companies that make them wont sell them to the public 😡🤬 they are A**holes ...... and coils are like a car you need to know what you are doing .... its an art ...
If you’re gonna keep talking so much in your clips then please invest in a microphone that doesn’t sound like and phone on loudspeaker. Quite unpleasant to listen to
Here's my 2 cents..after 20 years of professional tattooing. I used coils in conjunction with needles I made myself(carbon needles primarily -NTA4's from national..theyre japanese carbon needles..very precise as opposed to the more typical carbon needles) stainless tubes and an rca jack instead of traditional clipcord, for 16 years. I started using rotaries, or I should say tried using rotaries about 4-6 years ago. First I was using InkMachines Dragonflies with my steel tubes and My needles..The thing I liked initially with that setup was how precise I could be with small intricate designs..I struggled with how slow they could be with bigger pieces and honestly didnt like the lack of weight..I also liked how the quiet didnt bother me. And also also they could put in heavy lines solid but slower. When I started delving into cartridges, I loved the simplicity and convenience and sanitary aspect...I pretty much dumped all my mental resources into using carts..and although i felt like I have always struggled with them I stuck with it because regardless my work was getting cleaner and more consistent. Then I stumbled on John Clark's magnetic rotaries and everything changed..Once I got them working(which took a lot of tweaking) I used that initial Mag rotary almost exclusively for a few years..I have dabbled in every type of rotary with carts in that time leading up to present day..Inkjecta, Swashdrive, Stigma, Dragonly, hardlife gambler pen, valhalla, Fk irons pen, DK sidewinder. What i have currently for carts alone is a Hard LIfe Omni V1 and the ink machine Scorpion.
In my opinion I prefer the omni with carts over any direct rotary Ive used(Im using it with a 5mm stroke) and a small 22mm reusable cart grip.. The scorpion is by far the best pen, at least for me, mostly because its very simple and powerful and the grip is small(22mm). But the Omni is just better overall. There is a lot I could say to support that as not only my opinion, but an objective fact , but Im pushing it just writing this!!
I also have my John Clark Brass mag rotary from his original lineup and a more recent aluminum frame mag rotary from John. I also have a Centri Evader which is a more modern lighter aircraft aluminum mag rotary( he is a John as well, And gave JOhn Clark credit for the idea)
That having been said, I prefer using The Clark mag rotaries as my main liners and color packers. I like the Centri Evader for fine technical designs that I want to take my time with( Im using it with the longest stroke possible and it hits sooo fucking smooth,,but its slow). Ive given up on using cartridges with these machines..and NO plastic grips either anymore.. I use a stainless grip from Good Luck Irons( Filip Leu )and stem with disposable clear plastic precision tips that are frigging fantastic..I also use disposable metal tubes for some lining, but the shaders are perfect( from Ultra Tubes at Worldwide Tattoo supply) with Stainless grips. I Wrap the grips with plastic and sensi wrap for Easy cleaning and just stable, low vibration..And most important is Im using conventional needles again..I still make needles and Im playing around with good alternatives tot the carbon needles I love,,,but as far as premade needles the only needles Ive found that I like are the Workhorse Premades..No frills textured needles that are never tight. That's a whole other ball of wax..but in essence the industry on a whole makes them too fucking tight!!!
Ill probably just end up using my own groupings in the years to come, because the bars are just lightyears better.
I almost forgot,,,Im also using coils, but in conjunction with the mag rotaries..mix and match,,depending on the tattoo..Stylistically Im all over the place, for better or worse.
At the end of the day Im a technical person and I have an immense affinity for all things tattooing..I also still make my own full range of colors..I think just having a handle on all the little details that encompass tattooing can only be beneficial.
To sum it up I prefer coils but the mag rotaries cant be beat for fast clean solid linework and are super adjustable(allbeit a serious learning curve) But I almost think that using Conventional needles, really good quality needles premade or selfmade needles, is more important regardless. I just dont ENJOY using carts with anything but the omni and only for small tattoos. The enjoy part, is more and more my focus these days as I get older..I should also mention I like small grips and heavy machines that fall off the back of my hand,,Im used to the balance and I dont mind the noise or vibration...Its almost peaceful. No hand issues..(luck or technique? lil of both?)
Hope that helps or makes sense,,Im tired:>
Really cool to read your
Just to say...you well know your way and i like the fact that i understand all you say..especially the needle thing..!! I rather spend my time doin my own neddles..i dont care about my friends tellin me that im crazy!!
This is the kind of stuff I could listen to for hours, looking forward to the next one!
Love how detailed you get into this.
I’m excited for this series !
Thanks a lot! Excited to get some feedback on this series
My thoughts on this subject is that it’s not so much on how the needle leaves but how it enters skin! With coil systems, the main thing I feel gives a advantage over the rotarys is the fact that it has for a lack of better words a bullwhip effect. Basically breaks the surface tension caused by the elasticity of the skin hence less trauma caused to the skin, while the rotary has a rolling effect and less of a punch which needs a bigger force by the user to physically push the needles in the skin to break the tension which will undoubtedly traumatize the skin more then needed to achieve the same results.
Ps: love the series!
Most often I try to use all three (coil, rotary, pen) machines for almost every tattoo I do to achieve an almost mixed medium affect. Each machine should be respected equally simply because one does what the others can Not do based on the geometry, force distribution and weight (feel) that each one uniquely owns. When it comes to the design of each (engineering, specifications and metals then that’s a different story. There are cheap poorly made pieces of junk and there are jewels in every type of machine. I’m just thankful our palette of goods keeps expanding. I’ve tattooed and continue to for over 30 years now and still feel blessed and driven. Awesome show btw
Always learning thanks to you guys!!!! I've been tattooing for 15 years plus, I switched to rotaries bout 5 years ago, and I feel way more efficient now, probably because of a lack of knowledge about coils... I may switch again thanks to this series of episodes... thanks again for all your efforts to educate all of us!!!! Take care
Ive never used a coil, but I can't wait to listen and absorb the knowledge!
Thanks. Hope you get some value from the series
Finally I knew you where the smartest podcast when you talked about how with needle carts there not attatched and move and no one else even understood wh n I asked that question
Carson is the man... hes machines are the best !!!
Awesome educational video, thanks to both of you guys for adding so much to our craft and always sharing the knowledge! yeeew!
I like where you guys touch on sound of the machine to the skin. With a rotary I've found its kind of a feeling vs a sound you're looking for
Carson I love your neuma 4 it’s the only pen we’re I’m tattooing and I get in that autopilot mode we’re I’m tattooing so fast and so efficiently I can just stop thinking of how my machine functions but getting the tattoo done
Great info, lokking forward to the rest of the series.. thanks for it!
Already loving this serie , thanks ✌
Coils are still my go to for lining and small shading part, been using them for a long time the only thing I like about rotaries is the weight and the cartridges
Wonderful discussion!
I got an apprenticeship recently so it's time to binge more fireside 👉👈
Sweet!! Congratulations
@@FiresideTattooNetwork thank you! 🖤🕸️
Congrats. You should also come over to the Reinventing the Tattoo app. If you use the promo code Jake gave, you get 10%. That is less than a dollar a day....(shameful RiT plug).
@@citifolk I will certainly look into it! Do you find it's helpful for baby tattooers or is it more aimed at advanced artists?
@@Sirlordnoob like any machine, you need an understanding of needle skin interaction. This machine will give you the ease and mostly maintenance free of a rotary, with the efficiency of a coil. It is definitely a tool you need in your arsenal.
great vid thanks guy learning so much ....
what a great dialogue. Thanks guys
round 12 years tattooing now i used/tuned/rebuilt my coils for the first 5-6 years and slowly moved to rotarys I couldn’t line with them to start off but as they have progressed i line just as well as i would coil, and rotary is a lot lighter and more balanced, saving RSI in the rist ,
great start to a series!
Absolutely Loved this Episode, one of my favorite. Can’t wait for the next one. 👍🏻👍🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻😎😎🔥🔥
Thank You!
Totally off-topic, but your production has gotten better! What camera are you using?
i use coils for lines and rotaries for my shading and color packing, or just the other way around..it always depends on my mood 😃
I started with a coil. I’m like the customizations you can do with them
Needle making for sure, it's been so long I bet Id have tp theow out more than I kept for the first couple of runs
I had works for over 15 years with a Mickey Sharps Telephone Diale and will it never get back.Now i had no pain in my Arms and i dont hear the loud noise from the metal coil.the best is i need no more all the cables and its more save for my customers and no rubberbands.the cardridges are like the best modification:more Save,faster change for different module.i would say its the best ever that we has on the Tattoo Market.everybody they like oldschool can do what he wont.but my opinion ist for me the best and makes sense.when all gets easy for us tattoo artist why make it hard ????
In my opinion, if coil maschin were easier and in a different enclosure, they would definitely stick, Carson will definitely remember something.Amazing video.
Really looking forward to this series, I definitely don't use a coil any more, although I understand the appeal especially for lining I don't feel. It's worth the extra effort. My flux can handle my. jobs just fine
I personally struggled making the change to rotary machines. Lining was the worst. I found it slowed my whole process down. Which has its benefits. Since I started using the Neuma4, I have seen my efficiency return. I laughed when I was running a long line at my old speed. It was like seeing an old friend. Definitely a machine everyone should purchase.
@@citifolk what do you like about it, I have been spoiled by the freedom and cordlessness if the flux. I do want a backup machine. I was considers a bishop wand and the critical battery but now I'm interested in the machine you mentioned
I recently joined the wireless gang. The 20% cam is as easy to line with as any coil I've ever used. 33% cam saturates easy and butter smooth. I'm not dissing Franco and Bishop, they are amazing machines. I own many. Likewise with Gaston at FK. However, this machine feels better. Tattoos that took 4hrs, take 3hrs. Just my experience with the machine. Also, I'm waiting on Bishop to send me a battery pack so I can review and compare the 3 main branded battery supplies. I am going to tear them down and test them. See if going away from yhe traditional power supply is actually harming the machines.
@@citifolk I completely agree
carson is the best!!!
A hug from sicily
Keep em coming
what are your thoughts on this magnetic rotary machine and the "hits just like a coil" deal?
my 1st year tattooing i used coil, then saw online chinese seller selling rotary machines, after i used it never been to back to the coil, i think rotary heals faster.
I've used both. I love my coils tho. A rotary can't line like a coil can
Sounds like you haven’t used the Neuma 4!
Carson, you dirty dog...ya beat me to it hahaha
Cheyenne hawk lines just as good as any coil. Plus its lightweight, durable, and reliable
@@Nick889999 you are missing the point. No one is saying you can't pull a super clean line with a rotary. The point is, the efficiency of coils are far superior when it comes to skin/needle relationship. I recommend you look at sine wave graphs Carson has up on his website to better understand.
@@citifolk alright fair enough, but at the end of the day i don’t think that that alone is worth all the bullshit that u have to go through with coils. All the maintenance and tuning aint worth it for me. Used coils for 2 years and then went right back to rotaries. All the trouble shooting with my coil in the middle of my appointments + constant maintenance n tuning just isn’t worth it. I just wanna plug my machine in and have it work consistently.
awesome, can't wait to watch the next episode...share us your beer :)
Personal opinion, a rotary pen is hands down the most comfortable thing I have ever used
You guys should have Rian Othus on the show to talk about this stuff. He runs Better Tattooing.
Don't we naturally produce give with a rotary by way of how we move our hand anyway? It certainly doesn't create bog but nothing we use (pencil, pen, marker, etc -- i.e. drawing tools) that creates artwork works like a coil anyway. A coil machine is perhaps the most unique tool to create art. So in that sense, if you like that sort of thing, a coil is where it's at. But personally I still prefer rotary because there is less guess work as well as less maintenance and typically lighter. I don't want to hold a brick the whole time I'm working on someone. haha. Anyway, What do you guys think? What's your personal preference and why?
I first went to rotaries as I had a pretty unhelpful apprenticeship, had to self teach, and it was one less thing to have to learn when there was already so much to juggle. I have never really found them great for lining, and after using a DK Sidewinder (although technically a rotary I guess?), I found my lining heaven. I’ve tried to bust out the rotaries for lining since, but I’ve still not really cracked it. 🤷🏻♂️
You should look into the Neuma 4. It really does line like a coil
Sidewinder is a great liner.
I started with coils, I use rotary now. I have to say my personal opinion it just depends on what kind of art you're throwing down and what you're exactly doing. Personally I love a rotary for color packing and line work, I lovveeeeeee a coil for any kind of shading BUT if you are beginning with little knowledge you WILL fuck your shit up with a rotary. A coil is just much more forgiving.
It's called a reciprocating circuit...
Only Ty Pallotta should be there and would be perfect, I like it, good video, cao
ElectroMagnetism 😍
Loyal to the coil...Rotary not my thing...
Aluminum no good? What about time machine?? Some of the best machines...
“It’s the wizard not the wand”
I want metal teeth like that.
The thing with coils is basically that the coils have to be made outta copper and the few companies that make them wont sell them to the public 😡🤬 they are A**holes ...... and coils are like a car you need to know what you are doing .... its an art ...
Really tho, it’s all about ass brass art and machines!
centrifugal rotaries are the tits
E-give is most stupid thing ever.its not even a give at all .i have it on my machine it's just slows down the machine which I can do myself.
Take that hat off.
first!
Hah! Your'e so fast!
@@FiresideTattooNetwork love the show and your art Jake..f ollow me back on instagram @trevino_tattoos
If you’re gonna keep talking so much in your clips then please invest in a microphone that doesn’t sound like and phone on loudspeaker. Quite unpleasant to listen to