Harley Compensator Issues
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
- I'm going to modify my compensator spring pack.
1:00 Video of compensator noise at startup and shutdown.
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Harley Davidson compensator issues and weaknesses are discussed and ideas on how to possibly make them stronger is explored. Has anyone experimented with the spring packs of their compensator's? With success? Who is using a solid sprocket "compensator eliminator" type setup? I've included video of starting my Road King with the worn out compensator for you to hear the clunk noise it makes. Opinions? I want to hear from you in the comments below. Thanks.
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Way Mark you ha just saved me alot of on my 95 ultra glide classic with the medium spring causing my bike to act like a hard to start my bike I called the mechanic he to me it was the clutch on the starter but when I saw your clip my bike does the same thing thanks Mike
Well I hope that spring pack is indeed the problem, but if not, and it turns out to be the starter itself, get it fixed and let me know what caused your problem if you would. Your '95 bike should have a different compensator type than what you see in this video, but should have springs inside it nonetheless.
Thank you for the quick response on an old video, yeah I’ll probably just let it sit tell I do it but your two videos on how to replace it is awesome and will really help when I do it. Thank you again.
Great video my fire fighter brother. My sons 08 Electra glide makes that horrible noise. Now, we know what to fix.
Thanks for the video!
Ultimately I solved it by installing the Screamin Eagle compensator parts including the magnet rotor (which is a must as you cannot use the factory one with the SE comp). It was a bit of a hassle and I have videos of making the change plus adding an "extra" spring washer to give it a little extra strength, but is not mandatory. I hope your fix goes well Brother!
My 2008 electra glide 96 did the same thing. loud clacking on take off and starting R&R with a screaming eagle comp like you have there. big difference
I was listening to the mechanics you were talking about and he did use an,extra spring it was the right demention and he rode it for a longer trip everything turned out well.he tore it down ,and everything in the primary was fine.im convinced
Hell yea. U got the right idea. Then post your findings. I wish5 everyone did that
I would measure the force min and max needed to compress the stack to keep the compensator doing it`s job and set up my spring pack accordingly.
I used two of the small washers that the cone faces up seems to be working so far better
I've experimented with doubling up on the small one, it works well, but hd says never to do it. I think the tempering process of the springs is wrong. A redesign of the comp is required. I have ideas, but not without patent help. Otherwise, you're right, comp design is weak.
At 1 minute and 29 seconds I love that primary noise !!
Great video!! Much appreciated.
replacing solid front sprocket will give you faster acceleration from stop/bottom end and top end would be just as same as regular compensator sprocket. Don't forget to use lock tight for
sprocket nut
Ben, one of the spring setups I experimented with resulted in the springs being very tight. I test road it like that and found the engine pulses through the bike to be rather annoying, especially at low rpms. I would imagine this to be similar to a solid sprocket, which is why HD didn't just sell them like that and give up on the whole compensator idea. I appreciate your input, thanks for commenting.
I switched to the solid sprocket eliminator. It's fine but like you said. Don't chug your motor. I have a build cam tunner and some other work. I keep my rpms up so it's smooth. Now this is on a Milwaukee 8 motor. They are smoother running motors. Also my stock compensator sprocket broke. I'm putting down 118hp 127torc on a 2019 street Bob 107. 24500miles. No problems so far.
My brand new 2009 Softail Custom with 96 motor. Would kick back on first start up of the day. Not always or any relation to temperature. At times it would not do it for quite a long time. Then it would kick back sneezing (what I call it) out through the air cleaner. Ran across a few articles on stock compensator being unable to handle the 96. Purchased a new at the time Screaming Eagle Compensator. Looks exactly like one you have on bench. First one HD put out for sale in 2013. Installed it myself. No more kick backs. Trouble free for close to 40K miles. Removed it once to replace burned up stator. Inspection showed no abnormal wear.
Have a S/E air cleaner kit, 3" Cycle Shack slip-ons , Nightrider EXIDE's. These guys really work. Cured stalling in hot weather, reduced oil temp 20F and throttle response is very smooth working against the mandatory Kalifornia factory stock emissions set up.. Best 100 bucks spent on Mistress III.
Hope this helps, ride safe
That's awesome! Good to know! Mine was "sneezing" out the intake on startup too. I think it's related to the crankshaft dimples that the crank sensor reads going forward and then reverse, it counts those reverse dimples not knowing the crank is rotating backwards and fires the spark at the wrong time. Embarrassing in a crowd!! Lol. I replaced mine and shimmed the Hayden primary chain tensioner for less free play than recommended with only the lone large heavy spring. Very happy with the way it starts and rides now. Night and day. Ride safe my friend!
Thanks Mark. Funny you never actually hear a real back fire??? Just air and may be some residual oil blowing out the a/c.. Tried the Hayden. Made my chain too tight. Went back to stock after about 1000 miles. Put the stock auto adjuster back no issues. Your other video mentions Automatic Trans. oil. I use Castrol 10-40 motorcycle oil safe for hyd. clutches. I always start mine in neutral with the clutch lever pulled in first start of day. Let her roll out of garage to curb. Let clutch engage again in neutral. Pull lever back in , rev engine up a bit, back to normal idle no clunk engaging 1st. Have break cold oil film between clutch discs.@@contact4mwy7
I know you need to glue a plastic oil feeder for the new compensator, at the time when you fix the stator, was the oil feeder still on pretty good?
I installed mine prior to Harley putting plastic oil diverter in with compensator. Just ahead of game there. Must be something factory wanted. Never heard of any falling off if installed by the book. Switched too Castrol Motorcycle oil 10-40 Safe for Hydraulic Clutches. Lessened 1st. gear clunk with a proper clutch adjustment. Ride Safe @@Mr2princess
@@Mr2princess I do not have the newer model compensator installed. I have the original Screamin' Eagle model before it. Thus I do not have an oil funnel glued to the inside of my primary cover. I have seen a small amount of wear to the orifinal compensator moving parts on my own and others I have seen online, but I would not call any of them "parts are worn out" because of it due to low oiling. Maybe someday I will be proven wrong, but right now it seems like a big fix for a minor problem.
My 08 SG has a SE compensator which I found out when replacing the seal on the inner primary. I have no welded or extra springs and have no issues with it. At some point in the past the previous owner evidently did all the work as mine now has 63000+ miles on it and the tensioner shoe looks great and each time i dig into this ride i find he had done a lot of SE upgrades... I am no expert HD mech but want reliability more than high performance.. love my SG
Sounds like the previous owner did an excellent job, or hired someone who did. I agree, reliability over HP will get you there and back. Safe riding to you!
Hi Mark, I too had the same exact problem. I too installed the SE comp and after 2000 miles it started to do the same thing. I added another beveled washer as you did and that was short lived also. I did not want to spend anymore money on something that was a huge problem that many had on the internet. I ended up welding the SE compensator together making it one solid unit. The bike starts and runs great still after several thousand miles. one note is my crankshaft has been welded so the impact effect is not a worry for me. I hope yours last and thanks for the vid.
Mike, thank you for that comment and insight! I had heard of some using a welded compensator, but wonder how many know about having the pressed crank welded (and done right, right?) My setup using the extra Belleville spring washer is holding up so far, and I have another large one I could swap out against one of the medium ones if it starts to go South on me.
@@contact4mwy7 Yes the crank has to be trued and welded correctly. Also the problem happened to me after I built up the motor to 103 with performance cams and high compression(12:1) and its ridin aggressively so im sure all that has something to do with it;) Ride safe!
@@miketoorop2130 those extra horses may have had something to do with it alright. Glad you took good care of it.
@@contact4mwy7 Which setup are you running now the one in the video medium on the back did it run smooth.
I am still running the extra medium spring washer in the back against the rotor. It's fairly smooth. I did remove that extra spring washer earlier this year to see how it felt and sounded as a factory setup. It seemed to make more noise at shut off, but was smoother as far as engine pulses go. I put it back in a few weeks ago and the shut off noise is quieter. There's just a bit more engine pulse feel this way but it's not horrible and nothing near a solid sprocket feel, which is almost what I had using the original compensator with an extra spring washer. I can live with it. Maybe I need a whole new set?
I saw on the harley forum where some where adding another small spring along with the small one and having good results.I found a set of springs on ebay used for 24.00 dollars may give it a try.Thanks for showing how to do this.
Yes, I did that and had good results. The only reason I upgraded to a Screamin Eagle compensator is due to a person telling me that the outer ring that contains the springs blew apart on him on the interstate. It could be a fluke, but I didn't want to find out the hard way and be on the side of the road somewhere. Maybe it depends on your riding style too. I go pretty easy on mine mostly.
Got the springs in did the extra small spring fix.It worked great bike is smoother now than when new.Did about 100 mile ride no vibrations smooth as a twin cam can be.
I don't think I would do that..although the uninstalled height seems correct..the tightened height could be incorrect and through out the alignment of the primary chain, just my opnion.
I hope I'm not wrong, but I was thinking that the alignment with the primary chain is determined by the spacer at the head of the bolt. This should put more pressure against the sprocket ramps, and that's what I want thinking it will hold up longer and not wear out as soon like the compensators with the small spring washer mounted at the front. Will it be too much pressure is the question. I don't want a solid compensator effect, just something in between. We'll see, wish me luck.
You're correct, the sprocket's height it's fixed, the spring(s) do nothing to it . . . just to the "male" parts of the ramp mechanism.
The issue with SE compensator is that the three legs wear down very fast. So I don't put those in the bikes.
Eliminator and Hayden chain tensioner is the way to go
The three legs just wear out like the "extention" slides on the original I did the eliminator but the noise increases from the rotor
I just replaced the alternator hub, with a Drag Specialties One (Vtwin, Road King Police 2007), it comes with a couple of improvements over the factory one (but its the same style), i has 4 additional holes and oil deflectors, to push oil inside the spring-pack, and i has 1 additional spring in the pack. So far noise is gone, and start, running and shifting feels great. Not sure if the problem will reappear, but so far its a fix for me.
Is this done without swapping to the Screamin Eagle compensator? If so, sounds good! I wish I had seen this option.
@@contact4mwy7 correct, it's pretty much the stock one, with a couple of improvements, so you don't need to change the compensator
That looks ok but if you want it to last do what I did and get it welded so there’s no more movement. Works great and feels like a real Harley should.
Yea I welded mine and many ppls for years it is a awesome mod and ten tens better.
what exactly are you welding - I am having issue with 2001 RK and there are no real after market options.
Anyone know which comp I need for my 2003 with the CVO 103 cu. in.? Thanks
There are compensators available, like this one which may be a match, but you really need to verify that a particular compensator is correct for your CVO bike. www.denniskirk.com/drag-specialties/compensating-25-tooth-sprocket-kit-ds-195196.ph8118.prd/H8118.sku?gclid=CKfr0YCR1-ICFYHAwAodOcECnA
i'm using the Baker compensator since 1 year on my 2007 RK, never any issues
Thank you for sharing that!
I own a 2011 HD Road Glide, this problem has been with me for quite awhile, I didn’t know what it was, your article is the best I’ve read so far! It is super frustrating, I replaced the compensator sprocket, the noise is back! I am surprised and very disappointed Harley Davidson didn’t tell owners like they did on Twin cam problems! I took the bike into the dealer I bought it from 3different times, they couldn’t hear it, but when I was ready to trade it they then heard the noise in summer 2019! I heard that some combination of adding discs and or some type of spacer that added pressure to the springs added tension and stopped the god awful noise! I’ve replaced the tensioner, new clutch, new bearings in the transmission, and on my second compensator! To the tune of $ 2200 hundred! Can you recommend someone close to Redding Calif to really fix it ! I mean really fix it! I don’t have the tools or patience to do it, I just want to ride my $27,000. Motorcycle with goodies! Maybe this is my last Harley? Thanks for your video!!!
I know of a good shop in Chico, if you’re still looking.
Hi johny9516- soon after I posted my problems, I heard of a guy that owns FastLane in Cottonwood, Don, he recommended using Baker parts instead of StockHarley parts, it is like a brand new motor, i took it to Sturgis and haven’t heard any weird noises! Don Is a great mechanic and does quality work, by the way I pull a trailer which voids the warranty, but my warranty ran out a longtime ago! The trailer is a Leisure Lite, Don pulls a trailer too and said the baker parts have worked well! They have! Loving my new 2011 RoadGlide!
Lance, my apologies, I did not see your post from a year ago. Congrats on finally getting a bike that meets your expectations!!
@@lancevoorhees7318 Glad to hear you got your problem sorted out Lance. Sorry, I didn’t think of Don when I replied, a few of my friends use him.
I’ve just done an overhaul of my Primary, with a Man-O-War comp by Dark Horse Motor Works, Barnett extra plate clutch and Hayden chain tensioner. Noticeably more power to the rear wheel, smoother shifts and quieter primary. We’ll see how it goes in the long run. Best of luck!
Johny9516-thanks for your reply, sounds like you are running a really strong motor, mine was pretty much h stock! I tried a Hayden tensioner! I rode my bike with the new Hayden to Sturgis and back with a extra 500 miles miles of riding around Sturgis! Or a total 3600 miles approximately! I had the primary looked at when I got back, the Teflon block was half worn away, on a stock motor, they have a history of drag racing and long mileage and mostly good results from users! I called them, told them what happened, and even sent the beat up part back! They showed to the owners, they were terrible to deal with, they sent me a replacement that I didn’t want, I went back to stock Harley tensioner now replaced, I would never deal with them again, we put a new primary chain in which was smooth, before I left for Sturgis! Don, fixed everything without Hayden after I got back! I love my bike now! Hope you do well with Hayden!
I would just like to add that the spring pack that can be bought new for around 50 bucks, that was on the 05 and earlier, Has the SAME springs that can be removed, and placed in the rotor with the welded cup.For those owners that want to pay 150 for another original every 30K miles or so.
I've never had the problem. Put 57K miles on my '07 Super Glide, rebuilt the entire engine for Bonneville and continued using the stock compensator. I needed another bike to ride and bought a 2015 Road King new, which I ride daily here in Socal and I haven't had a problem with that compensator. I ride hard, don't baby my bikes but I am absolutely nuts about maintenance. I just brought home a 2012 Super Glide and still haven't had any compensator problems. I guess I am just lucky? For the record, I am a "keep it simple" guy, and a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" guy also. 0 issues with compensators.
Good to know, thanks for commenting. My '09 Road King had about 63k on it when I bought it. I don't have any history of maintenance or how it was ridden, but the compensator springs were shot causing a hot startup issue. Either you got one of the good ones, or you just have to put some more miles on it, is my guess right now.
@@contact4mwy7 I put plenty of miles on, I really do ride everywhere and daily. My truck is for pulling my camper or race rig. I wasn't being snarky, so I hope you didn't take it that way. Never had a problem with cam chain tensioners or primary tensioners either. I do know I do all of my own service and I'm meticulous. I am just curious about these failures. My neighbors Road Glide is noisy and when I went to show him how and what his problem is, I found there had been some ham handed person wrenching on it. BTW, your video was helpful for me putting my compensaror back together. I dropped my spring packs and needed confirmation that I put them together correctly.
@@WillyDaC I didn't take your comment as snarky at all, bud! I know there are some bikes out there that seem to still be doing ok, but unfortunately that can't be said for all bikes. At least the motor company started installing stronger units on them.
I'm with you. I've got a shade over 95,000 miles on my '07 StreetBob I bought brand new. I haven't had any real issues at all with it besides a leaky fuel pump hose around 26k. I like watching these videos in anticipation of 100k I think I'll change the final belt drive and what else I should plan on while it's all apart.
Looks like when u tske small spring off out medium size on u loose spline length for the ramp to grip on if u did this how did it work out going through this on my 04 roadking after caming and tuning the bike
I've added an extra spring washer to two different units so far, both with great results. I have videos uploaded describing both, one is called Back From Laconia. I'm currently using a Screamin Eagle unit without the thin thrust washer and with 3 medium spring (Belleville) washers and it has been holding up just fine so far, especially on startup. Once the main bolt is torqued down the springs compress as they should and alignment is still true. No loss of spline area for the ramp. This has made the whole unit as solid as it should be, maybe a bit moreso. Hot starts are no longer a cringing issue too.
Great video. Could you tell us what the ID and OD and the thickness of the middle size belleville washers (the newer SE ones)?
I'll try to get back to you with that info, Bob.
Glad i bought my 103 😀
Right, it came stock with the Screamin' Eagle compensator!
my se compensator rattled sounded like crap bought new one put it in same rattle and crap as old one something has to fix this it drives me nuts
I’m not sure how this affects torquing down. Considering the two stage sequence with the smallest pressure spring replaced how do measure toque settings? Original torquing on dyna is 175 ftlbs
That is a valid question, and quite honestly one I had not given thought to. I suppose a stiffer spring pack pushing against the bolt head "could" sway the final torque foot pounds to be slightly less than the goal amount? How much less? That is the question. Thanks!
what a magic show, I am dizzy
I'm going with Baker compensator. The Harley SE has you glue an oil deflector to your primary cover...wth ?
Buggah FLHT Yes, the newer versions have a sort of funnel that feeds the oil into the center of the hub where drilled channels bring the oil into the internals of the compensator. I don't have a lot to go on as to how much longer that system lasts and resists wear. I have heard good things about the Baker unit.
The epoxy is stronger then the plastic diverter. I wouldn’t worry about it coming off. The screaming eagle unit works great.
My only concern would be the alignment of the compensator sprocket to the clutch sprocket. I don’t remember the alignment limits. You would need to check a service manual. Personally there is no way I would use a solid sprocket. I know they make a belt primary drive. Not my choice either. As long as the alignment is within specs I don’t see a problem. A good person to talk to would be the tech people at Baker transmission. Good luck. Post your final solution.
That's a valid concern, Daniel, but the alignment is determined by the stack of solid parts, not the springs themselves. The springs push outward on the sprocket piece holding it against a stopping point. I had measured the spring pack height to show that the overall spring pack thickness had not changed, as there is a limited amount of space for it to fully compress and becomes solid. I assembled the spring modification and ran it that way to see how it would perform, which was much better than the original spring pack which was weak. I eventually swapped everything to a Screamin Eagle compensator. I have other videos posted showing these results and installing the SE unit. Thanks for checking this out.
So it's been a few months since I watched your video and was wondering what your final setup ended up being? I have a 2001 Softail with the 88 twin cam and apparently these compensators are bulletproof but I'm having the same clunking clanking noise you are so I'm going to throw a new commentator at it and see what happens. But I love the fact that you are not afraid to experiment and who knows possibly come up with something better than the factory and screaming eagle!!
The setup with the extra spring washer worked good in my opinion. It was able to cushion most of the impact of the piston firing while also being stiff enough for hot starts without the rattle and occasional backfire out the intake. The only reason I ended up swapping out to a Screamin Eagle compensator was concern after reading a comment that a rider had the metal retaining ring that holds the spring pack in place let go, on a factory setup, on the interstate which pretty much stranded him for a tow. I didn't want to find out first hand what the likelihood of that happening would be.
@@contact4mwy7 I had a drag specialty compensator put in replace the Harley-Davidson compensator and it seems no different to me still the racket
Is the racket you hear normal, or is the racket coming from something other than the compensator?
I think they are called belleville washers :)
Diaphragm springs we used to call them.
I would not eliminate the the thrust washer by use of the spring washer. The flat thrust washer is there to protect the spring washer from the sprocket and sprocket hub if the unit alignment is correct when fully torqued the address nor change nothing from the original washer and spring layout. If your alignment is off add the smaller of the two spring washers to the side near the rotor. Re-torque and check the alignment. If it is too thick the you should source thrust washers from, most likely, Harley . Pain in the butt, yes . But the reason most people have problems with these after replacement is from improper installation.
Shawn Coleman it's not an alignment issue, it's that the factory springs are not pushing against the chain sprocket enough to keep it from developing excessive play and thus the compensator noise and hard starting that has plagued so many. The alignment stays the same because it is determined by the flat washer next to the bolt head. There seems to be a compromise between soft springs for a smoother ride, and stiffer springs that do not let the compensator clunk about.
I understand what you're saying about the alignment. I have a BDL compensator on my FLHTCU. It had to be shimed for correct alignment. I never used the Screaming eagle unit. Went right to the after market with BDL compensator. Have only used it for about 2 k. So far so good. When I first viewed your video it seemed that want you were proposing would affect the alignment as it would with the BDL unit. Best of luck with your endeavor.
Shawn Coleman where I showed a measurement in the video, it was to compare the thickness of the stack between the two setups of the spring washers. The alignment is based on the entire unit being snugged up against the stator rotor, and has been made to specs that should not require shims for proper alignment. I can see how your Baker may need shims depending on which stator rotor is used, and the same can be said of the aftermarket solid sprockets too. Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it, and for letting me know that the Baker is holding up well.
look at doc Harley, SE compensater works, but it need lubrication,good luck bro
Its a screamin eagle comp.
Hi Mark! My 2011 Road Glide has a SE type compensator. At engine starts and stops, or when you give a suddenly throttle give a clanc-clanc sound. I try to give a 3mm thick extra washer (what i made) between the big spring and the rotor, to give an extra strenght. The problem became better, but not perfect. I have no extra springs, but i think, my next step is to take out the thin spring washer, and keep the 2 medium and 2 big spring washer, and my 3 mm thick extra washer. What dou you think? I think the root of the problem is the one thin spring washer. When sudennly give a throttle (or make a start or stop engine) this washer easy press down from the crank huge acceleration, and give this sound. What do you think? Thank you!
That thin washer is called a "thrust washer" and is meant to hold up under pressure against the inner compensator piece. I removed mine to make room for an added spring washer that I bought on eBay from someone who parted it out. I'm still running that way and opened the primary to check on it yesterday. After 6,000 miles or so it still looks good, is still strong enough that I cannot rotate the chain gear by hand, and starts and shuts off as it should especially when hot. I moved the added medium spring washer to the back of the stack against the rotor like you are talking about. I am a bit concerned with a homemade washer as the center hole and balance might not be perfect? But I did test this theory, without the added spring washer or the thin thrust washer there was free play in the outer sprocket of about a sixteenth of an inch. This tells me the thin thrust washer takes up that free play but doesn't do much for helping with the tension of the spring pack. Others may argue I'm wrong, but I will continue to run my bike with this setup until an actual problem occurs. There have been a lot of theories on why this setup should not be run, but none have come true so far, but maybe I've just been lucky or don't run my bike that hard?
@@contact4mwy7 Thank you for your quick answer. I try my version at nowdays, and after I will writing here my experiences, or make a youtube video! :) Thank you again!
When I was in the market to buy a used HD I checked out a 2008 Road King Classic that had been stored for winter and owner said it was the first start up of spring 2015. Cranked it and huge BANG from compensator. I thought OUCH. Only 6,750 mi on it, original owner. Didn't know it was the comp at the time... and I bought it. I don't think it's gotten much worse @ 16k. Bike has always clunked a bit on shut down, sometimes on startup but I learned starting on sidestand vs. straight up seems to keep clunk down. Bike has always chugged/bucked from stop in 1st if not giving it enough throttle, probably comp issue too. I also recently installed the hayden primary tensioner. Haven't been able to tell difference.
I think the Hayden is more for "Peace of mind" over the stock automatic tensioner over concerns that it "may" over-tighten the primary chain. I noticed strange clunkiness on startup, sometimes, when I bought he bike. It got worse over time. I did a fair amount of two-up riding. So there I was at sixty something thousand miles with a bike that made other bikers cringe at the sound of startup at a gas station for instance. Eventually I swapped out the original compensator for a Screamin Eagle. Couldn't be happier.
Is this the older screamin eagle compensator? Because they did a updated screamin eagle comp.
Yes, it is the older setup. The newer setup has oiling holes and channels added. Thanks for asking!
i recommend getting a baker and be done with it! and don't forget to change the tensioner
Thank you for your input, Michael!
Mark I have another question why does my front end of my bike seems to wobble when I'm doing about
50 to 60 mph I just put on new tires air pressure is good on shocks and tires
I have a softail 2016 with 20k miles and i have that noise,if that posible for a 2016?,thanks for the video,i wait for ur answer
I'm no expert, Mike, but anything's possible. I am aware that the Milwaukee 8's got a stronger compensator. The early hiccups with the chain tensioner should be gone too. Is it making noise when you start it hot, like after getting a gas fill-up? Or all the time?
I think one of my springs just broke and fell down inside,you guys think i can r&r these allright? 2008 1200c.
Bob, I'm not familiar with the Sporty's. If you suspect a spring problem inside the primary, compensator or clutch, it should be opened and inspected before any damage is done. Let me know your progress. Do you have rider friends that have opened one up?
How many miles on the bike when this started happening? You would think Harley would have a recall on these parts and service the bikes on their own, instead of making us pay for it. I would micrometer the distance if it were me, it looked like just under 21/4 inches to me. Set the new order the same distance from the original one or the chain will be out of line. Causing wear on the teeth in or out whatever the case will be on the alignment. But I would say that the compensator is still needed to keep the vibration to a minimum. Or bearing wear on the crank as well as trans. bearings as well will give over time. I see the engine lasting much longer with the compensator than without it.
Thanks, Gary. The bike had about 65,000 miles, and unfortunately I'm not surprised the motor company did nothing for those that purchased the earlier 96 cubic inch bikes BEFORE they switched to installing the Screamin' Eagle compensator. I agree, the compensator is necessary to prolong all the working parts in the drivetrain. As for the primary chain alignment, it is not determined by the thickness of the spring pack, but rather by a sleeve bearing that slides into the crankshaft at the center of the compensator. That's what the main bolt is torqued up against. I was measuring the spring pack thicknesses in relation to how much more force would be applied if it were too thick in width, if that helps to clear it up better?
Just a note, that's a rotor, not a "stator hub". Do you have any findings to update us with?
Dean Kells I wasn't able to use the SE compensator for very long due to the stator rotor being unbalanced from the epoxy I used to replace some broken magnets. The added medium spring washer felt promising though, as it added just a bit more pressure against the spokes of the chain sprocket. I will be adding more video about adding an extra spring washer to the original compensator assembly which is still in service as of today with no known issues so far.
Hi Mark...Robbin here.. owner of your old Road king. I have a question...Do you know the story about the front fender eagle head ornament that is on my RK? It looks like it came from an old pan or shovel but not sure and we here, are all are curious? Thanks ... btw.. watched all your videos...great job!
Hello Robin! I do not know the story behind it, it was on the bike when I got it at Laconia Harley Davidson. I was told the owner of the bike's wife worked at the dealership. That might be where most of the extras came from. By the way, sent you an email, I published the video of the dyno run on that bike in case you haven't checked it out yet.
My 2007 FXSTD started doing this just before my warranty ran out. Brought it to HD dealer and they said it was fine. Had the bike since purchased new 2007 and could never figure out why it starts terribly after warmed up. Cold start is fine, once warm after stopping for gas ect, it sounded like the gears were falling out with scratching and clanking.
Sandro, your spring pack has worn out. There isn't enough pressure against the two plates to keep them from sliding back and forth on startup. You have the same "pancake type compensator" from the factory that my 2009 had, which isn't strong enough to hold up against the 96 cubic inch or higher motors, I'm sorry to say.
Mine does the same thing. What do you think would happen if you just left it and kept riding it for a while? I don’t have the money to replace it right now but it starts fine when it’s cold so I still ride it and just don’t shut it off, but I feel like something may get messed up. Any thoughts?
Cody, I think the starter suffers when trying hot starts because the clutch basket turns backwards between cylinder compressions, that's part of the thrashing it does. If you think you can limp it along until you can afford to replace it is up to you. Always start in Neutral though, it helps.
Ok, so a year later, how is the alternative washer holding up? I am having this issue now on my 2011 flstf.
After about 1,800 miles on the original compensator with an added spring washer, I swapped to a salvaged Screamin Eagle unit and added a third medium spring washer to beef it up a bit. This has done away with the hard starting issue and yet still feels smooth enough chugging around town. I was out on it for the first ride this year, finally, and noticed that I can hear the compensator doing it's work around town when I give it some throttle. Kind of a "chah chah chah chah" metallic sound of the two pieces sliding against each other. Perfectly normal. It was a bit of a struggle to swap it out, and I have videos of that, but totally worth it. Thanks for asking.
@@contact4mwy7 thanks for the update. I made a spacer for mine and it seems to have made a big difference in the bike. Starts much easier and feels Better. Thanks!
@@rcpilot82 you're welcome! It seems the springs get weaker over the miles of use and lead to hard starting, etc. Let me know if it starts acting up again, possibly to the point that the springs need to be replaced. Thank you for getting back to me, glad it's a better bike now!
Do you have a manual chain tensioner to take stress off shafts
No, I installed a Hayden spring tensioner and used that for a few thousand miles, and then put the factory Harley tensioner back in just recently. I did not see any sign of the chain being too tight.
I just replaced the compensator using the SE Harley replacement and the friggen thing still clunks on start up while cranking and when rpm’s are high and clutch release is slow (like starting out on a hill/incline to prevent rolling backwards). At almost $650 including new chain tensioner, fluids and gaskets it pisses me off! I was considering the Baker replacement but thought the price as way high, I should have used it!! (Baker compensator) Anyone thinking of replacing the damm thing should consider buying the Baker unit!! Wish I did!!
Sorry to hear it, Randall! I have to wonder where all that clunking is coming from? It seems like replacing both the compensator and the automatic tensioner should have ended that. I would bet there is a whirring sound coming from the primary from the new shoe breaking in to the shape of the primary chain, which is normal, but clunking on startup and letting the clutch out under load is NOT normal.
I hope I don't sound stupid, but could it be possible that part of the noise could be coming from a worn chain allowing too much slack even with the different tensioner? I know chains don't really stretch, but where the pivot pins go through the links, those DO wear and cause the chain to appear stretched when compared side-by-side with a new chain...
That's not a stupid question, it's a possibility indeed. There's a lot going on inside that primary case, lots of moving parts with some give to them either because they were made that way or worn that way over time. Thanks.
@@contact4mwy7 What are your thoughts on a Compensator Eliminator Kit which basically just uses a sprocket with the correct spacing instead of the springs and everything else involved with the Compensator? It would seem to me that it would transfer the firing pulses of the engine to the clutch assembly making for a less than smooth transition of power...or am I overthinking the whole thing...
@@glenblair4103 you're right, it would transfer those engine pulses into the clutch, transmission and rear wheel. I tried an extra spring configuration in which the result was too stiff and I could feel the engine pulses most of the time, which didn't make for pleasant riding. It was obvious to me that with these bigger cubic inch motors, if H.D. could have done away with the compensators right from the factory without I'll side effects, they would have. The compensator I'm using now has a different spring setup than factory recommended (3 medium springs instead of 2, and removed the thin thrust washer) and seems to be doing well so far. I'll have to open it up at some point and inspect it.
@@contact4mwy7 Well, at least I'm thinking in the right direction...the Compensator works similar to a shock absorber and Harley put it there for a reason...
I think if you have a 96ci and u put that newer compensator on and it still makes that noise you have a different problem. I have a 103ci with the newer compensator and it works fine no noises. I would ask your dealership about that .....
Thank you for commenting, Jeff. I have heard from others who have had the rattle noises from the newer Screamin Eagle compensators too. The spring packs wear out and lose their tension over time and miles.
I think it will be too short because you keep Stacking/Unstacking all the components so many times it's Shrunk to 2.125".....🤔🤔🤔🤔
S Lit I have that setup with the extra spring washer instead of the thin washer in there right now and it seems to be working fine so far. Thanks for checking it out and commenting.
2012 Victory Crossroads Excellent bike
Lots of powers cruise and gets 52 mpg at 75 mph
I sold my BMW disappointing electrical issues
I like the horsepower but to many gremlins that when I got the Victory I was so surprised that the power was like BMW and I got better mpg the bmw got 39 mpg
The victory gets 48-52 mpg
But the bike has Tri Ovals exhaust a little expensive but great sound
Love the bike
I think Polaris made a mistake by dropping the victory and going w Indian
Victory is a better bike hands down
I which the saddle bags had the quality of bmw
Other than that good enough
Glad to hear it, thank you for your reply! I'm surprised the BMW got such a low mpg. I had been following their progress through a couple motorcycle magazines I subscribe to. Sounds like you have a fun solid machine now, and THAT'S what matters most! Ride well and safe!
I agree...Victory was a great bike and you can get them fairly reasonable...going to Indians was a mistake and is just a ploy to compete against Harley in racing...imho l think they're ugly as all hell...
Follow directions there's always a good reason they done it this way I have two more disc in new ones
I agree, they set these up to a certain expectation of smoothness, but it doesn't hold up over the miles it seems?
yes two more shims against the rotor... These ones are spinning now on a 2014 softail deluxe cvo making a terrible whining noise seems to me there should be 4 of the small shims to take out the rest of the play...
Hello Scott, are you talking about a Screamin' Eagle compensator on this 2014, using more shims for that? Not the flat disc type which mine had from the factory, correct? I purchased a salvaged Screamin' Eagle compensator and added an extra medium-sized spring washer as a shim. It's been performing very well so far. I had also added an extra spring washer to my factory compensator prior to the swap and that was working well too, but I heard from a guy who said the metal retainer ring around the spring pack had separated from the rotor and stranded him on a highway, which started my quest to gather salvaged Screamin' Eagle compensator parts still in good condition.
I just replaced my stock comp with the SE comp on my 09 FLHRC. I used all the washers as suggested though. The first night was a bit loud from the primary but has quieted down a lot. The bike starts so fast now with little to no effort. When I put the adjuster shoe in place and pulled off the mettle tag used to keep it compressed, it ratcheted up quite a bit and very fast. Chain slop was well within the specs so just let it go. Maybe should have installed a new chain too (but what the hell) only 70000miles on it. No knocking from a slow pull away now either. One thing I regret though is only torquing the nut to 140 lbs. I'm hearing a lot of guys recommend 150 or more.
Did you add red thread locker to the compensator bolt? I only torqued mine to 150 (highest amount that particular torque wrench could be set) and feel confident that the bolt will not loosen on its own. I've only put about another 2,000 miles on mine this year and it's still starting as it should, much like what you experienced with yours. It does make a difference making the upgrade, no regrets!
@@contact4mwy7 Lot's of Red loctite.
@@phillipmarlow5267 Ride 'er!
If i were u i would have a washer made out of stainless steel or some kind of wear plate(AR 500) and make it to go in between the 2 big spring plates and make the thickness on the washer 3/16. I think that would work
jb I think I see what you are saying, use it as a spacer. As long as one could be made with the same size hole in the center and was balanced good, that might help too.
I have an 03 flht w/what sounds to me is that horrible compensator noise. The engine is a high compression 105 hp 115 ft lbs of torque, and a baker 6 speed tranny. Apparently baker doesnt or didnt make a compensator for the 03. I guess I'll have to make one of theirs work.
I would definitely put in the extra spring but I think I would leave the small spring in there also. Just because Harley has engineers doesn't mean we can't come up with our own ideas that work also right 👍🏻 Let me know what you ended up doing and how it worked out for you. Thanks bud.
I have been running my compensator with an added medium-size washer to give it a bit more stiffness without the thrust washer with no known issues. That being said, I am wondering if those springs do in fact wear out, or lose their tension over time, or is it a matter of an owner hearing noises and thinking that it's worn out? I do agree that the thrust washer, the smallest of the rings, should be left in as it's made to take the friction between the moving parts and the non-moving parts. Does it need an extra spring washer added? Maybe not. I am tempted to take mine apart, again, and take out the added spring washer and put the thrust washer back in as the factory setup and give that a go. What do you think?
@@contact4mwy7 did you ever try this? I have mine apart and ordered a new spring pack for the screaming eagle compensator. I can use the extra shim as I have it. Going to see if hd will let me return it and get the dark horse. If they won’t I will install the new pack and see what happens and or I may add that spring. But then have to purchase a new bolt everytime. Thanks!!’
@@bw935 I am still running an extra spring washer in my compensator. I did remove it for a bit to see if the 'newer springs' could take the abuse. Even though the drive system felt smoother without the extra spring, it still felt like it struggled to start, so I put the extra spring back in. As for a new bolt, I'm still using the original.
@@contact4mwy7 how many miles have you put on with this setup? I have a new spring pack and I measured the height and no change from the old. Maybe under load the old springs would flatten out more.
@@bw935 I don't know how many miles exactly, but I'd guess a couple thousand by now. I put the thin thrust washer back in along with the extra spring washer. The spring pack may measure thicker than factory with the extra spring washer, but the alignment of the primary chain is provided by the parts that the bolt torques against.
Beginning with my mildly modified 1950 Panhead in 1967, on to a 90", 1968 Shovelhead hot rod, and my current 100" aftermarket Evo, I have never used a compensator. Talked with Bert Baker, and we agreed that one is not necessary equipment. So, what good is a compensator anyway? Unleless you like to ride at 1200 RPM in 4th gear in parades.
Personally, I find them to be useless POSes, and just another problem point. I don't believe in them
PS: I do use a Fisher Vibration Damper in both the Shovel and Evo, but intend to go with a Karata belt drive the next time the Shovel is put back in service, and again, without a comp'r....
....RooDog....
Thank you for explaining that, Steve. I'm not familiar with the Fisher Vibration Damper, will have to look into those. My bike does have a rubber damper in the driven pulley on the rear wheel from the factory and I think those help squelch further vibrations. Happy riding to you!
@@contact4mwy7
I take the rubber dampers for the rear pulley to be another gimmick, a problem waiting to raise its ugly head. Dirt bikes have had these rubber damped rear sprockets for years, and they always need replacement. The rubber damper was a failure point with the ill fated Sturgis primary belt drive back in the 1980s. History does tend to repeat itself, and hardly ever for the better.
But, again, why for a compensator? Does i really make life better? Sportsters didn't have 'em for years, and my hot home built street Harleys, with 5 speed trannys, don't miss not having the problematic devices either.
We have a late model Twinkie Road King , w/ DD6 tranny, in the shop now, that does a lot of distance riding, and I'm advocating the solid front sprocket from Vulcan Engineering, I sen no advantage to a damper at 3000 RPM @ 80 MPH, you?
....RooDog....
My 2011 has this noise "problem". I didnt know what it was until i started poking around here, and now my question is, why should I care. As in, why is the little clunk when it starts even a problem at all? It had 30k when i bought it, now around 45k, never had any other symptoms. Should i replace the compensator for any reason other than being anal about a clacking noise that lasts under 1 second?
As long as you are aware of the situation.
@Mark Young - Outside The Box I'm leaning toward pulling the cover off and watching while it starts to try and see exactly what I'm hearing. Hate to cause more damage letting something go. Appreciate your info
@@wyomatt surround the compensator and clutch with cardboard to keep primary fluid from flying all over the place. A shroud so to speak.
If there was only a way to get a measurement when fully compressed...
👍
Do you have an overall update on this ??
Yes, Zach, I tried running the stock compensator with one more spring washer added and it seemed to be fine with that, but after running it around a few hundred miles I decided to beef it up with a Screamin Eagle compensator, first edition. I also added an extra spring washer to the factory set up of that and I am still running it to this day without encountering any issues, so far. I have uploaded videos of both of these set ups to my channel. Very happy with the SE compensator. It feels built for the job.
@@contact4mwy7 thanks Mark
I replaced mine about 7 years ago. My pack had all 3 spring sets had 2 pieces. Had no issues. Installed on two bikes. Don’t know why you got shorted on the spring packs.
I got shorted by buying used parts, really, a box at a time. Eventually I bought enough boxes of parts to make a complete Screamin Eagle compensator that I added an extra spring to. It's holding up very well for the miles I have out on it so far. Thanks for checking this out.
Last guy I seen use the medium spring plate an extra one on top, not the bottom and he reversed it
extra spring affects alignment????
No because the center pieces stack against each other to keep alignment constant.
Hey Mark my name is derek wilson i was wondering if you have ever had like a click clack noise on a decelle and if it could be coming frome the primary i have mine apart now and I don't really see any thing unusual was womdering if you've ever had noise coming from primary on decell and if the noise may be coming from somewhere else
Hello Derek. What year and model bike do you have? On decel the top part of the chain has slack in it. If it's a lot of slack it could be slapping against the top of the inner primary. Did you check the upper part of the primary for signs the chain might be contacting it? Sometimes play in the clutch basket can be heard too. I made a video showing that as I found it by accident really.
@@contact4mwy7 I have seen the clutch basket video everything seems tight but I dont think I'd be able to hear that compensator unless the engine had a slight load ex decell the compensator sprocket looks stock is there a way to tell visually with the rings out if they are bad
What year and model is this? Could you physically rotate the compensator back and forth by hand? That's a sign the spring pack is getting weak.
@@contact4mwy7 dose the chain nee to be off in order to see if it will move or is neutral sufficient
Neutral is ok. Can you pull the top part of the chain up to see if it touches the inner primary case?
I’d just put in the way it’s supposed to be. They hold up to the 117 just fine.
Steven Evans this design has been proven to hold up to 160ftlbs over a 15 year history. But you flip flopping crap around will be far superior. How much torque you making 100 maybe probably less?
Steven Evans the screaming eagle compensator is designed to handle an engine that has an output of up to 160ftlbs it will handle your 103 fine. I check torque every time I change oil in the primary. I agree with you that the 2014 and older units are bullshit. I have a new limited with cam upgrade. I can lug it down and it works great vast improvement. I’d say run the new/what was the screaming eagle only version you’ll be good.
Steven Evans that was supposed say 114 sorry. I should prof read
The new M8 motor has the latest com assembly after 4 or 5 revisions since 2007. So not many issues any more.
It's good.iam lucky.chage.mine.on.07.fxd.with s.e.no problem. So.try.it.
How’d that wrk out
It held up pretty good. I changed over to the Screamin Eagle compensator since then after reading a comment from someone who had the outer ring that holds the spring pack break off the backing plate on the interstate. That would seem to be a weak point in the system. I don't think he had anything more than the factory spring pack inside it.
You should buy the “BAKER COMPENSATOR” and all your problems will be eliminated. It is what I have in my 07 Electra Glide Ultra Classic with a 106 kit built in mine and the Baker Attitude Manual Chain Adjuster. Had it installed in mine over 2 years now with no mechanical issues. This is the unit you want. Not the HARLEY junk.
Thank you for that recommendation. Glad to hear it's working good so far.
@@contact4mwy7 he only had to sell a kidney and a lung to get it..
@@tonewill9407 I just sold a kidney & a Lung to do so after my THIRD Starter Clutch fail and having to be towed home.
@@ccollins9981Cool, I'm not there yet, the size of the motor and they way they have been treated in there past kinda determines there lifespan, mine is a stock 88 original owner so its been overly spoiled...
if you have a 06 dyna more than likely the bolts have came loose holding the rotor to compensator only year they where like this, if its not to late you can upgrade the bolts better quality and your good to go unless you have a 120 inch motor and you drag race it or something
Ya,.....run it
Right on, Brad!
When I try to star my 2003 harley-davidson it sounds like a lot of rocks and wont start
What year and model? How many miles? Fueling upgrades?
A two thousand three heritage classic 30,000
@@tonymadrid-ke1eb It may be your compensator, or it may be that your chain tensioner needs to be adjusted. I would take it to a mechanic you trust and have them look inside the primary.
Thanks
just get louder pipes
Has anyone just replaced the compensator with a sprocket I know they make them and problem solved. And there less than half the cost.
Yes, but the engine pulses felt through the machine can be rather annoying for day after day riding. To each his own, but I didn't like it when I tried a spring pack setup that wasn't factory that was overly stiff.
Yes I Do this , more vibrations /pulses and you must Do the crankshaft welding . It gives more acceleration , Easy start and easy shifting
How does your compensator story ends ?
I eventually installed a Screamin Eagle compensator unit, but I left out the thin thrust washer and instead added a third medium sized spring washer to the two existing. All good so far after many miles of use. Hot starts are no longer an issue and yet most of the engine pulses are being removed still. Very happy with it so far. Thanks for asking!
How come that you choose this alternativ instead of the one in the video ?
@@niklaslindstrom2088 I changed it a bit due to putting more thought into the pros and cons of how it would affect how the parts interact with each other. So far it has performed flawlessly. Hot starts are stable, and no odd thashing sounds when I shut the bike off.
Thanks Mark !
You need to measure the heights at load!
If I understand your suggestion correctly, Nick, under load means installed and compressed? I wanted to show that the compression ratio would be close to the original factory stack, but beefed up a bit more to handle more strain on the spring pack by substituting the medium spring washer for the thinner thrust washer. I have been using a setup similar to this without issue so far. I moved the medium washer next to the original medium washers instead of against the stator hub.
1
Just get a Darkhorse Man-O-War compensator.
I've heard good things about them. Thanks for commenting.
i just got rid of it and put a solid one in mine.not going to buy harley junk .they know that threr is a proublem and they dont have a fix .i went old school . and i run the hell out of mine with no proublem
Thanks for the input, good to know!
I bet that bolt was just loose 😊
I am just gonna say it here in 2020. Harley Davidson needs to stop fugging around with their legacy chain primary drive.
add an extra medium spring and that will take care of the god awful noise. So, install your two large springs, the two medium springs and add an extra medium spring and then the small spring. It will look like this () ()) (
Tony Forrest the video will be up soon, I hope, of a setup where two medium springs are placed back to back facing the same direction.
Could you use one of the old bellville washers that were removed as a spacer ??
Not able to weigh in on your question but I am very disappointed with the motor company. It seems like there’s always something a few years into ownership. I am now an Indian rider. They can’t be worse I am thinking.
I have not ridden one yet, but wonder how they compare. Check in again with an update.
I have ridden my Indian springfield 5000 miles this summer, nothing but fantastic ride and power. Although the harley issues usually come a few years into ownership its early ot know how Indian will do, but so far so good.
This is so pathetic..as much as they cost buyers shouldn't have to worry about anything except where to ride..the next thing you know we will have to forge new wheels because they aren't round..I had to have a compensator installed in my 2010..it only had 20k babied miles on it..
Sorry to hear it, Todd. They would have made a lot of owners happy by recalling the affected bikes and replacing these compensators.
@@contact4mwy7 Go with the dark horse compensator it has pressure tabs instead of those style springs it just lasts longer and is quiet and takes out the noise which none of us can stand
I'll be right over to take the moto ski off your hands
Brian Langhorst Good eye! That's a 1969 Moto Ski Zephyr that I swapped out the 299 Hirth with a 249 Hirth. Runs great, goes everywhere with its long track! I have a video on here of it running with the 299.
Talk about lousy engineering - Harley should be ashamed - this will NEVER happen on a Japanese engine because they actually test their engines before they go into production. So yes HD has a unique position in the motorcycle world but their engineering is NOT stellar by any standards. A bike at this price should not be using their clients as a "test bed" for their engineering department. The new Harley's are NOT better than the old ones as claimed by Harley enthusiasts - they just have new problems.
Sometimes it seems like the owner is the quality control person! Lol
Amen to you
heard nothing?
In regards to?
wow! a goldwing sound better and better now!
larry
mafosa a good quality machine, Larry.
What a joke.....you mean Harley can't figure out this...so were down to backyard experiment bullshit
If you want reliability sell the Harley
Buy Victory
Are you having good luck with a Victory? Which one did you get?
Looks like junk by design.
Dale Humphrey it was designed for the 88 cubic inch motors from what I have found online. Anything bigger than that seems to be too much for it to handle.
oh- so you're going to allow Harley to profit even MORE by spending your hard earned money and buy yet ANOTHER part from Harley under the Screamin' Eagle moniker. Yup- go ahead and REWARD Harley for their bad design. I cant wait until this fucking company is out of business. My last Harley was a 2006 Nightrain and my next bike... Indian. guys.. WAKE UP! It's your money, it's your long trip that gets ruined, you're the one stuck with the huge tow truck bill- jesus christ!
Is the same in my fatboy
Sometimes it take half minute to start the bike