He really does remind me of a Zensunni philosopher similar to Duncan Idaho, but his actions don't match haha. If he had liked "what you seek, is seeking you" then I'd be convinced he was one. That theory went up in flames though haha.
@@MarkMcFaddenI thought so too. It was too obvious how he stood in front of Valya and perhaps it seemed like another of his tricks to somehow “hack” the sisterhood from within.
The common dream also reflects the sympathetic union between Bene Gesserit who train together, which is totally in line with the Jungian influences on Frank Herbert's writing.
Yes of course you are right, that's why I don't have a problem with it. There is a realm of play in the lore, like the realm of prescience which such things are possible.
It might be the 40k fan in me but I feel like the landsraad meeting chamber should be more impressive for a group of people running the know galaxy than It is in the show
This is pretty early on, landsraad 1.0, and my impression from the BH books post machine war/BJ, the human population is quite small. Is CHOAM even a thing yet? Is the guild even heavily involved in politics yet?
@@MoietyVR i dont think the guild has as much power this early, it hasnt really started to leverage their monopoly just yet. there may still be people using the old style ftl that takes months/years as well. but i do believe the great convention exists as of this point (they mention kanli). i think an infant version of choam actually does exist as well (as combined mercantiles).
@@nights312312 I wish haha. I was also worried that @SpaceFraggle1234 would spoil it but it’s really nice they’re watching my videos anyway. I try not to spoil every detail in the breakdowns but unfortunately the bigger reveals I can’t avoid haha.
This was as good as the first episode, and it had everything. Political machinations and surprisingly frequent lore drops: seeing the Landsraad on screen for the first time, screentime for all three major Houses, Ixians!, mention of Titans, Bene Gesserit prescience, it really got its footing this episode. BUT this was the last one they gave out screener copies for: only 2 episodes left and who knows what’s in them.
I was so happy to see at least an early face dancer, as well as getting a mention for house Vernious. If they are bringing the huge lore stuff this episode, I can’t wait to see the last 2. I’m hoping Theo will disguise herself as the emperor so she can get close to Desmond to kill him. Though I have a feeling Desmond would find a way to survive, and maybe even kill her. I hope we learn more about Theodosia’s abilities. And I think that with later face dancers, the transformation will be less painful, and more fluid by the time we meet Scytale
The Ixian in this episode was by his manner and diction, somebody, most likely a criminal from lower levels of their society. That said, the character worked fine for me although I can't wait to meet someone from their technocrat intelligentsia at a later time, like in a second season. ... Did you notice, the Landsraad's Speaker of The High Council, was played by Christopher Nolan's uncle, John Nolan (most recently seen in "Person Of Interest" as'John Greer')? Polly Walker last week and the elder Nolan this week. I wonder who else we can expect to cameo in "Dune Prophecy"...
Yeah nothing against the actor he did a fine job with it. I just thought it was a funny intro into the Ixians. I was wondering where i'd see that man before. John is a brilliant actor, loved him in Person of Interest as well.
In the age we live, with adaptations being beyond poor - I am enjoying this show. It’s not perfect but has enough to keep me interested and watching reviews on it.
I really enjoyed the show so far, I just think they missed the opportunity to clarify how the spice became the most valuable commodity in the universe. The show already began in the same political mantra "He who controls the spice controls the universe" and "spice must flow", plus you can't talk about the importance of spice without mention the Spacing Guild.
Yeah, I wasn't looking for "general grievous" or something. Just a human, with perhaps a little tech on their bodies (a port, something more akin to Ghost in the Shell maybe). Wasn't expecting gold grills and a British gangster.
It's so gratifying as always to receive your notifications, R.ålí, another thing that stands out and few people talk about is some of the comical moments that you quickly put into your videos and the part about the London gangster Ixian was so beautiful, Another point I always learn from you is the wonderful phoneticisms in your British accent for Dune terms and a great idea for fancasting. Actress Chloe Leo who plays Lila would be perfect as Ghanima in Children of Dune
What you seek is seeking you would lend itself to the position in the prequels that religion in general, post machine wars, was cobbled together from ALL the texts that survived.
Bro I am so happy we got Face Dancers. Even though Theo ain’t like how they are in the books, I ain’t against the consideration that she’s just an early experiment. As she seems to have too much self awareness, and went to the BG on her own volition and may even be biologically female??? Face Dancers transformations sounded terrifying Ngl so seeing her go through this extreme pain made me cringe like hell. Curious what Denis will cook with the “melting faces.”
I’m curious about Theo too. Seeing as a face dancer automatically made her my favorite character. I’m not sure if she is a biological female. I don’t even know if they developed the axlotl tanks. Maybe she’s one of the early model of face dancers where their abilities came from genetic modifications to a fetus before going with the cloning everyone thing. Idk I’m excited cause now they can bring Scytale in without having to explain the tleilaxu.
@@tgiacin435 Yeah exactly. I never thought I’d feel bad for a Face Dancer (I sort of did when the God Emperor made them preform) but it’s very interesting to see this “rough experiment” with a sense of self and emotion. I need to read the Brian books tbh. I ain’t against reading them despite what people say. I just need to finish the OG first (just started Chapterhouse, thank god it’s only half as long as Heretics)
@ it’s because the skin transforms in a fluid motion. With Theo, she seems to be an early experiment. When we get to Scytale, I’m guessing they worked out the transformation process so it’s a lot more fluid
I honestly love how ambitious this show has become to show the full universe of Dune. To show the Ixians and Tleilax in this episode is great. The cgi and art direction are definitely not great, especially the Ixians, who we all assume would look more like robocop than human. My main questions are, that this is 10,000 years before the first book yet most of the tech that was displayed so far was introduced in this timeline which means that much of this has either been mastered or well underway. I assumed that the Tleilaxu powers would not be as sophisticated simply because they progressed to rapidly in the Herbert books.
Well the Ixian was a spy trying to blend in: I hope the planet Ix itself is more exotic. I wouldn’t worry about the Ixians, though: they can make the machines.
Another thing about the Facedancer is (but shouldn't be able yet) is that the early Facedancer could have been in to deep and for so long that itself was convinced that it was the said persona it amalgamated with and lost it's self breeding (total stretch).
I think Desmond is that Atriedes that Valla allowed to live. The ages match up I feel. His blood she took a sample of will help form the Kwisatz Haderach plan. Also the reason Desmond didn’t kill the sword master Atriedes is because they are relatives.
You mean the one Tula allowed to live? His name is Albert Atreides, and he is (or was?) the father of Keiran. That would mean that Desmond would be Keiran's father, which isn't impossible, but seems somewhat unlikely, even considering that Desmond didn't execute Keiran along with the other conspirators. He hasn't taken any apparent note of Keiran.
I'm really struggling to understand why Theo, a face dancer, is in the sisterhood and is Valya's trusted assistant. Why would Valya (and probably Tula) welcome a face dancer to infiltrate the sisterhood (not yet called "Bene Geserit")? It seems a dangerous and reckless thing to do. Theo - according to Herbert's books - doesn't just HAVE face dancer abilities, she IS a face dancer, a creation of the Tleilaxu. Valya and Tula must know this, so I really can't reconcile their choice to embrace Theo. Is there some logical explanation I'm missing?
The main problem I see with it is how infamously obsequious face dancers are to their masters, but we may find that this was an innovation developed sometime during the next 10,000 years-perhaps even as a consequence of Theo's story.
I don't really care for this show, and nobody is really watching these videos except those who have already seen the show. Sorry, but I did try to do something new with this title card to see if it will perform better. I don't normally do this kind of thing and I am better at keeping secrets. But perhaps what you think has been spoiled hasn't been ;) You'll have to watch the episode.
(to also add, everyone has been spoiling this show through title cards etc. Even HBO on their official channel. Being the less spoilery person gets you nowhere sadly).
@@secretsofdune No worries at all, was just having a bit of fun. (Secrets) I like seeing what the Dune Community is chatting about. I really don't like the show, have to get access in non-direct ways, and so am a bit behind. I had actually not made it past he first few minutes of Episode 4. I'll check out the vids when I get time. Cheers!
@@DocSloansScienceFictionStation got you. Yeah I hear you. Im just trying to find more ways to grow the channel while keep “my integrity” haha. It’s not going so well. Very little growth this year and last year. Anyways thanks for stopping by to check out the video though!
@@secretsofdune Totally get it. Work my backside off for my channel, little growth, no money., I do it for the love of it. You've got your integrity by the way, as far as I'm concerned. Ever want a natter about Dune, let me know! Take care and keep at it! Doc
I think Desmond is that Atriedes that Valla allowed to live. The ages match up I feel. His blood she took a sample of will help form the Kwisatz Haderach plan.
Loving your breakdowns! Many thanks! I'm giving room for mispronunciations: accents, regional differences, huge spans of time - same as here on Earth. Also, curious why Desmond spared Atreides. There was a camera lingering between the two when Atreides was at the vent. Curious!
Yes, even if Desmond were to turn out to be Vorian, you'd think that an apparent hardline extremist wouldn't even spare his own kin if they were guilty. I have three guesses: (1) he sniffed out the rest of the tech conspiracy with some kind prescience that has a blind spot for Keiran, (2) he has a future use for Keiran that requires that he be alive, or (3) Keiran is a double-agent (least likely, IMO).
Don't be. I missed that Valya called the male figure Theo the first time around also and I was confused as to why Theo would change into the form of Valya's brother anyway, that took me a while to figure out as well. In the end it was pretty much for shock factor/confusion but in the story sense to show Valya that she is willing to utilize her power (in an over the top example).
@@secretsofduneI think Theo mostly realized Valya needed to see the one person in her family she truly cared for. And it helped Theo understand that tough choices must be made and that the mother superior is willing to be the truthsayer to her nephew, then what excuse does Theodosia to not give her all to help the mother superior, who asked Theo personally to accompany her to selusa. After all, sisterhood above all
yea, i made dinner after the episode and it wasnt until i started the sides that i realize she was a face dancer. im probibly going to have to watch the episode again to see who she was impersonating.
The Ixian is meant to be a black market dealer, so seemed pretty on brand to me. He wasn’t an ambassador, nor was he some on-the-nose cyborg or something.
Valya's plan A; indoctrinate Nez so hard no control is even necessary, Sisterhood's goals map 1 to 1 onto Nez's goals as Empress. Plan B; maybe control isn't 100% necessary, we'll simply train Nez in such a way that she has (secret) exploitable blind spots. Plan C; implant Theo in the palace long enough for her to gain an ego sense of Nez to eventually replace her as Empress
With an (early?) facedancer (and the Tleilaxu) now in the picture, we have to admit the possibility of an (early) version of a ghola as well among the key characters.
Ghola was my initial guess in E01, and it still seems like a strong possibility. He could certainly be a beta version who turns out to be enough of a problem that the Tleilaxu dialed back some capabilities in subsequent versions.
Excellent episode! I’m wondering if anyone has tried speeding up the sound the two eyes in the darkness makes, or reverse whatever is being said and speed it up? Just a thought.
Not gonna lie, I never imagined the Ixians to have extreme body modifications. I thought that would have been appropriate but the Tleilaxu seemed to have filled that niche themselves with their metal eyes and false limbs and organs. I saw the “high tech” Ixian concepts in spice wars and I could only think, “really?” There was something comically generic about high tech culture = cyborgs in the context of Dune. Ix always felt like it was this transitory tech hub with no real ethnic or aesthetic identity - but a mass scale place of business. As most Ixians looked normal if I recall. But I agree - I didn’t really like this back ally gangster. Most Ixians we meet in the books occupy some role of importance, and dress nicely.
Yeah I didn't mean like extreme body mods but I meant like metallic eyes as you said. Humans but with a little tech in/on them basically. And yeah totally agree with what you say about the book Ixians.
@@secretsofdune @ Oh yeah for sure. I guess that would have allowed watches to sit back and think, “damn, this guy is loaded with tech. Walking violation right here.” Ixians had like, weird ear pierces and devices that would follow them around iir in GEoD. They could have made this guy like, loaded with little gadgets like the hunter seeker we see here. I do enjoy the high tech and out of place look of pre BJ tech. Really evokes the regressive vibes in later films. At the same time, I haven’t read any of the extended books. I’ve no clue if Brian made up any new vibes for the Ix but things like a planetary insigna on a uniform would be cool.
To me, an Ixian should have more in common with a First Foundationer from Asimov's works rather than some thug. Sometimes high prestige scientist, other times burly trader, but in the end someone that has confidence and intellect.
@@Rauruatreides yeah, I don't mind such an ixian on their planet, but their society is highly secretive and even sending them out amongst "powindah" filth is something they wouldn't do. It would have been much better to be a handler working on behalf of the Ixians, rather than an Ixian in my humble opinion.
Why did the Landsraad do the Fremen salute? What if anything is the connection? Was Evgeny wearing a Black Sun symbol ring (shown after he died?) Does this mean they at this point have Geidi Prime or even that they're on it and we haven't been told?
I didn’t care for that particular salute very much but I believe it was just a generic chest salute and not the Fremen one. The ring was the same symbol we have seen for House Harkonnen (or very similar) in the Dune movies which is why I suspected it might be Giedi Prime, still no confirmation of that yet but I’ve been told it is Zimia, the main city on Selusa Secundus. Again I can’t confirm.
Yeah that's why I mentioned that the orange eye in the opening credits could be an Honored Matres, before we saw what they did with Lila. Maybe she's still linked in some way to that.
Also a Facedancer to show up as her brother means that the Bene T were on planet long ago working the background before she left for the Sisterhood school. Brother probably did drown to be replaced, Bene T are just as smart as Bene G. If the one whistling in the palace plays through then we have also seen a Tleilaxu Master 1st time. I'll sub to follow your break downs, to many trihards now that are jumping on the bandwagon to waste time on.
This episode was interesting but it felt like they were just throwing everything they can at the wall for fan service. Wasn’t too thrilled with the Ixian, better to show me than tell me. I’m still puzzled as to what the face dancers role is.
F. Herbert kept many things vague, only hinting. The show is doing much the same. I'm beginning to get the sense the spice melange allows for telepathic projections. The novels explicitly says spice ingestion induce visions, dreams, and voices. Lila is the lynchpin for this episode, IMO. Those glowing eyes alludes to the spice, but I'm not sure of it at all. I always expected IXians to be cybernetically enhanced humans. F. Herbert always hinted.
The facedancer in this Ep must be a Master Jongleur, picked up by MS somewhere. True Facedancers weren't mastered yet by this time; BUT better versions were around and not from the Bene Tleilaxu! Erasmus's seeing net had control of their own servants. The two charcoal figures from the acolytes sub-con-sketches show two figures, D and M for the one's in the Know, no spoiler here ;p
I am now feeling inspired to reread the Canon cooks and slog through the Butlerian Jihad, a book I so hated that it got dumped in the trash unfinished. I don't throw away books.
@@secretsofdune I can't remember, maybe because I watch to many breakdown vids to fast and I was weary. I'll rewatch to see if I get triggered by something or maybe it might be a repeating theme by yt'ers, might be nothing.
Oh and as for controlling a Facedancer, it ain't happening unless your a Bene Tleilaxu Master or Erasmus. Did you see the one whistling in the palace? I seem to be the only one and I watched a few YT vid "break Downs" Hope it's Master Waff!
I have and very little evolution occurs between this show and the "current Dune timeline." That's why a lot of it looks the same as the Dune movie, that's their justification for it (the Heighliners etc. It's a stagnation. So what's your point? If this is about the Ixians, if they have such technology as we've seen in the show (avoiding said stagnation until the current Dune timeline as you call it) then they are already advanced enough.
I don’t remember the timeline now, but are face dancers created yet at the time of the series??? Maybe Theo isn’t a face dancer, maybe she was the one that is gonna be used to create them all. Sounds more like her ability was something inexplicable and to be feared and she obviously hate to do that.
Show us quickly become nonsense.. everyone who read and love Franks books cannot take this show seriously...... i still watch it but i don't respect it at all. Is have Gane of Thrones vibe, not a Dune
Thinking back now, I think the original show was the dark part of it visually, the sisterhood, the school, training, breeding index, two sisters at the helm etc, the person born twice being paul, or leto the 2nd or withing the show: lila. And that's the part of the show I really enjoy watching. And then, thinking back to people leaving due to 'creative differences', reshoots and what not, I would bet the corrino game of thrones drama sex and plotting, the cheap side of the show is what they added later and made it fit, they added desmond as another one born twice etc, probably wanting to dumb it down and have it too connected to the movies and too philosophical. It's too stark a contrast. Fantastic visuals in the sisterhood school, costumes, sets, color coding. And then we see that horrific cheap generic scifi night club and the generic palace and the generic throne room. Two separate shows.
Originally it was given more free reign where they wanted to make it look more like David Lynch's Dune aesthetically, more heraldic etc, but they tore those sets down. It's something I covered early on but it is rarely talked about.
Very disappointed in the story so far. The writing is not very good. It feels like they are just making up shit they think will look cool on film. Could have been so much better.
@@secretsofdune perhaps... over at AMC, they adapted two of Anne Rices works, Interview and Mayfair Witches. They changed a lot in Interview, but it is brilliant, they kept the spirit of the work while updating some of the characters and the setting. Mayfair witches was so dumb I couldn't finish it...
@@secretsofdune lol no... they moved it up in time, and they made Louis mixed-race and the owner of some brothels and nightclubs. It's done really well, and very much fits the spirit of the work. He and lestats relationship is really fleshed out too.
"The time to snuff a fire out is when a fool lights a match"
Sick line. One of the best lines I've heard in film.
He really does remind me of a Zensunni philosopher similar to Duncan Idaho, but his actions don't match haha. If he had liked "what you seek, is seeking you" then I'd be convinced he was one. That theory went up in flames though haha.
I still think "Some mother fuckers always trying to ice skate up hill" is the best. This is cool though.
I enjoy your breakdown of each episode more than watching the actual show. Same goes for analysis by Quinn, Nerd Cookies, etc. All top TH-camrs.
Given that Valya got that blood sample yes I hope they give an answer before the end of the season
I hope so. The mystery of his power is kind of dragging on now and becoming a little boring, unless something radically changes about it.
@@thedragondemands5186 it seemed to me that Desmond Hart intentionally left the blood sample for the Reverend Mother Valya.
I think we will see Valya return to Wallach IX and have a fun episode next week.
@@secretsofdunehe could be the attendes kid left Alice by vayla sister on the third episode
@@MarkMcFaddenI thought so too. It was too obvious how he stood in front of Valya and perhaps it seemed like another of his tricks to somehow “hack” the sisterhood from within.
The common dream also reflects the sympathetic union between Bene Gesserit who train together, which is totally in line with the Jungian influences on Frank Herbert's writing.
Yes of course you are right, that's why I don't have a problem with it. There is a realm of play in the lore, like the realm of prescience which such things are possible.
It might be the 40k fan in me but I feel like the landsraad meeting chamber should be more impressive for a group of people running the know galaxy than It is in the show
and where is the guild, their vote can cancel out the whole of the landsraad.
This is pretty early on, landsraad 1.0, and my impression from the BH books post machine war/BJ, the human population is quite small. Is CHOAM even a thing yet? Is the guild even heavily involved in politics yet?
@@MoietyVR i dont think the guild has as much power this early, it hasnt really started to leverage their monopoly just yet. there may still be people using the old style ftl that takes months/years as well. but i do believe the great convention exists as of this point (they mention kanli). i think an infant version of choam actually does exist as well (as combined mercantiles).
Sounds like a great story so far. I look forward to seeing it when it comes to video.
Why would you spoil yourself if you are planning to watch it later? :O
@nights312312 Insight into the story. And I am a big fan of "Secrets of Dune" I am a member, and we have spoken many times.
@@SpaceFraggle1234 Its great channel thats for sure. Imagine they used his knowledge on the actual show, how much better it would be.
@@nights312312 I wish haha. I was also worried that @SpaceFraggle1234 would spoil it but it’s really nice they’re watching my videos anyway. I try not to spoil every detail in the breakdowns but unfortunately the bigger reveals I can’t avoid haha.
@@nights312312 Agreed. "SecretsofDune" would be a valuable asset to any writers, in the Dune universe.
Mark Addy makes a living dying in HBO productions...
This was as good as the first episode, and it had everything. Political machinations and surprisingly frequent lore drops: seeing the Landsraad on screen for the first time, screentime for all three major Houses, Ixians!, mention of Titans, Bene Gesserit prescience, it really got its footing this episode. BUT this was the last one they gave out screener copies for: only 2 episodes left and who knows what’s in them.
I was so happy to see at least an early face dancer, as well as getting a mention for house Vernious. If they are bringing the huge lore stuff this episode, I can’t wait to see the last 2. I’m hoping Theo will disguise herself as the emperor so she can get close to Desmond to kill him. Though I have a feeling Desmond would find a way to survive, and maybe even kill her. I hope we learn more about Theodosia’s abilities. And I think that with later face dancers, the transformation will be less painful, and more fluid by the time we meet Scytale
at first i thought it seems a little small, given the number of planets in the empire and there should have been a guild representative there as well.
The Ixian in this episode was by his manner and diction, somebody, most likely a criminal from lower levels of their society. That said, the character worked fine for me although I can't wait to meet someone from their technocrat intelligentsia at a later time, like in a second season. ... Did you notice, the Landsraad's Speaker of The High Council, was played by Christopher Nolan's uncle, John Nolan (most recently seen in "Person Of Interest" as'John Greer')? Polly Walker last week and the elder Nolan this week. I wonder who else we can expect to cameo in "Dune Prophecy"...
Yeah nothing against the actor he did a fine job with it. I just thought it was a funny intro into the Ixians. I was wondering where i'd see that man before. John is a brilliant actor, loved him in Person of Interest as well.
I did like we got a mention of house Vernious, the rulers of Ix
Until he spoke, I almost thought the Speaker was Ian McKellan.
In the age we live, with adaptations being beyond poor - I am enjoying this show. It’s not perfect but has enough to keep me interested and watching reviews on it.
I really enjoyed the show so far, I just think they missed the opportunity to clarify how the spice became the most valuable commodity in the universe. The show already began in the same political mantra "He who controls the spice controls the universe" and "spice must flow", plus you can't talk about the importance of spice without mention the Spacing Guild.
Something the new movies do not really do either. It should be the core concept really.
@@secretsofdune Exactly, it seems everyone has been hesitant to go there.
Right and that’s the political aspect of Dune, the spice being an analogy for oil etc.
@8:08 Right. It was with all the enthusiasm of a host at Olive Garden announcing that your table is ready.
Right! This is the Emperor of the Known Universe, not table number 4’s order.
FWIW the only two Ixians who appear in the books aren't described as looking any different than normal humans.
Yeah, I wasn't looking for "general grievous" or something. Just a human, with perhaps a little tech on their bodies (a port, something more akin to Ghost in the Shell maybe). Wasn't expecting gold grills and a British gangster.
I didnt get the impression he was an ixian, i got the impression he had sourced the device.
I think he said “my favorite Ixian”?
I felt that too but Keiran Atreides clearly says "my favorite Ixian" to him, so it can only mean that he is one.
It's so gratifying as always to receive your notifications, R.ålí, another thing that stands out and few people talk about is some of the comical moments that you quickly put into your videos and the part about the London gangster Ixian was so beautiful, Another point I always learn from you is the wonderful phoneticisms in your British accent for Dune terms
and a great idea for fancasting. Actress Chloe Leo who plays Lila would be perfect as Ghanima in Children of Dune
Thank you for all the kind comments
@@secretsofdune at your service, boss
What you seek is seeking you would lend itself to the position in the prequels that religion in general, post machine wars, was cobbled together from ALL the texts that survived.
They didn’t call it the council of “ecumenical” translators for nothing
Bro I am so happy we got Face Dancers. Even though Theo ain’t like how they are in the books, I ain’t against the consideration that she’s just an early experiment. As she seems to have too much self awareness, and went to the BG on her own volition and may even be biologically female??? Face Dancers transformations sounded terrifying Ngl so seeing her go through this extreme pain made me cringe like hell. Curious what Denis will cook with the “melting faces.”
I’m curious about Theo too. Seeing as a face dancer automatically made her my favorite character. I’m not sure if she is a biological female. I don’t even know if they developed the axlotl tanks. Maybe she’s one of the early model of face dancers where their abilities came from genetic modifications to a fetus before going with the cloning everyone thing. Idk I’m excited cause now they can bring Scytale in without having to explain the tleilaxu.
@@tgiacin435 Yeah exactly. I never thought I’d feel bad for a Face Dancer (I sort of did when the God Emperor made them preform) but it’s very interesting to see this “rough experiment” with a sense of self and emotion. I need to read the Brian books tbh. I ain’t against reading them despite what people say. I just need to finish the OG first (just started Chapterhouse, thank god it’s only half as long as Heretics)
I like how they did it .. i remember reading the book thinking.. how do they face dance ... but in my mind their movement was much faster than this
@ it’s because the skin transforms in a fluid motion. With Theo, she seems to be an early experiment. When we get to Scytale, I’m guessing they worked out the transformation process so it’s a lot more fluid
I honestly love how ambitious this show has become to show the full universe of Dune. To show the Ixians and Tleilax in this episode is great. The cgi and art direction are definitely not great, especially the Ixians, who we all assume would look more like robocop than human. My main questions are, that this is 10,000 years before the first book yet most of the tech that was displayed so far was introduced in this timeline which means that much of this has either been mastered or well underway. I assumed that the Tleilaxu powers would not be as sophisticated simply because they progressed to rapidly in the Herbert books.
Well the Ixian was a spy trying to blend in: I hope the planet Ix itself is more exotic. I wouldn’t worry about the Ixians, though: they can make the machines.
Like any other society, there has to be a criminal element on Ix.
I loved the description of Ix in the books with the entire city being underground, while nature is allowed to live on the surface
I was thinking the Ixian bomb would be a dud anyways, especially if the Ixians are involved in the Desmond Hart plot.
@MoietyVR good point. It might have been all a ruse anyway which Desmond hart was aware of.
@@secretsofdune Plans within plans
5:54 lmao 🤣🤣
🤣
TOOOOONNYYY
Bon Jour 😂😂😂
Great recap
Thanks, appreciate it.
Tleilaxu fiends
_(shudder)_
Another thing about the Facedancer is (but shouldn't be able yet) is that the early Facedancer could have been in to deep and for so long that itself was convinced that it was the said persona it amalgamated with and lost it's self breeding (total stretch).
I think Desmond is that Atriedes that Valla allowed to live. The ages match up I feel. His blood she took a sample of will help form the Kwisatz Haderach plan.
Also the reason Desmond didn’t kill the sword master Atriedes is because they are relatives.
You mean the one Tula allowed to live? His name is Albert Atreides, and he is (or was?) the father of Keiran. That would mean that Desmond would be Keiran's father, which isn't impossible, but seems somewhat unlikely, even considering that Desmond didn't execute Keiran along with the other conspirators. He hasn't taken any apparent note of Keiran.
@ right thank you I’m trying to follow it all. I was thinking why set up the plot hole to let him go then don’t use it
I'm really struggling to understand why Theo, a face dancer, is in the sisterhood and is Valya's trusted assistant. Why would Valya (and probably Tula) welcome a face dancer to infiltrate the sisterhood (not yet called "Bene Geserit")? It seems a dangerous and reckless thing to do. Theo - according to Herbert's books - doesn't just HAVE face dancer abilities, she IS a face dancer, a creation of the Tleilaxu. Valya and Tula must know this, so I really can't reconcile their choice to embrace Theo. Is there some logical explanation I'm missing?
I'm also struggling to understand why. I guess they'll explore it more in the last two episodes, or keep that mystery going.
The main problem I see with it is how infamously obsequious face dancers are to their masters, but we may find that this was an innovation developed sometime during the next 10,000 years-perhaps even as a consequence of Theo's story.
LAUGH my mother fucking arse off ... Ha! 😀😀
We didn't get an IXian, we got a bad boy yardy. 😂😂😂
Thanks for spoiling the episode with the title card. Thought you could keep a secret, lol.
I don't really care for this show, and nobody is really watching these videos except those who have already seen the show. Sorry, but I did try to do something new with this title card to see if it will perform better. I don't normally do this kind of thing and I am better at keeping secrets. But perhaps what you think has been spoiled hasn't been ;) You'll have to watch the episode.
(to also add, everyone has been spoiling this show through title cards etc. Even HBO on their official channel. Being the less spoilery person gets you nowhere sadly).
@@secretsofdune No worries at all, was just having a bit of fun. (Secrets)
I like seeing what the Dune Community is chatting about. I really don't like the show, have to get access in non-direct ways, and so am a bit behind. I had actually not made it past he first few minutes of Episode 4.
I'll check out the vids when I get time.
Cheers!
@@DocSloansScienceFictionStation got you. Yeah I hear you. Im just trying to find more ways to grow the channel while keep “my integrity” haha. It’s not going so well. Very little growth this year and last year. Anyways thanks for stopping by to check out the video though!
@@secretsofdune Totally get it. Work my backside off for my channel, little growth, no money., I do it for the love of it.
You've got your integrity by the way, as far as I'm concerned.
Ever want a natter about Dune, let me know!
Take care and keep at it!
Doc
I think Desmond is that Atriedes that Valla allowed to live. The ages match up I feel. His blood she took a sample of will help form the Kwisatz Haderach plan.
little kid in the wood, maybe
@ exactly
Loving your breakdowns! Many thanks! I'm giving room for mispronunciations: accents, regional differences, huge spans of time - same as here on Earth.
Also, curious why Desmond spared Atreides. There was a camera lingering between the two when Atreides was at the vent. Curious!
Yes, even if Desmond were to turn out to be Vorian, you'd think that an apparent hardline extremist wouldn't even spare his own kin if they were guilty. I have three guesses: (1) he sniffed out the rest of the tech conspiracy with some kind prescience that has a blind spot for Keiran, (2) he has a future use for Keiran that requires that he be alive, or (3) Keiran is a double-agent (least likely, IMO).
I'm ashamed it took me an hour after I finished watching the episode to realize she was a Facedancer.
Don't be. I missed that Valya called the male figure Theo the first time around also and I was confused as to why Theo would change into the form of Valya's brother anyway, that took me a while to figure out as well. In the end it was pretty much for shock factor/confusion but in the story sense to show Valya that she is willing to utilize her power (in an over the top example).
@@secretsofduneI think Theo mostly realized Valya needed to see the one person in her family she truly cared for. And it helped Theo understand that tough choices must be made and that the mother superior is willing to be the truthsayer to her nephew, then what excuse does Theodosia to not give her all to help the mother superior, who asked Theo personally to accompany her to selusa. After all, sisterhood above all
yea, i made dinner after the episode and it wasnt until i started the sides that i realize she was a face dancer. im probibly going to have to watch the episode again to see who she was impersonating.
The Ixian is meant to be a black market dealer, so seemed pretty on brand to me. He wasn’t an ambassador, nor was he some on-the-nose cyborg or something.
Valya's plan A; indoctrinate Nez so hard no control is even necessary, Sisterhood's goals map 1 to 1 onto Nez's goals as Empress. Plan B; maybe control isn't 100% necessary, we'll simply train Nez in such a way that she has (secret) exploitable blind spots. Plan C; implant Theo in the palace long enough for her to gain an ego sense of Nez to eventually replace her as Empress
Perhaps so. I guess she was always planning to exploit Theo's abilities even though she had a rule never to use them.
With an (early?) facedancer (and the Tleilaxu) now in the picture, we have to admit the possibility of an (early) version of a ghola as well among the key characters.
Ghola was my initial guess in E01, and it still seems like a strong possibility. He could certainly be a beta version who turns out to be enough of a problem that the Tleilaxu dialed back some capabilities in subsequent versions.
Excellent episode! I’m wondering if anyone has tried speeding up the sound the two eyes in the darkness makes, or reverse whatever is being said and speed it up? Just a thought.
Is Sister Lila the actual instrument of the Reckoning?
The evidence seems to suggest that she is. But they still might pivot somewhere storywise and make it Desmond Hart. To me it leans more towards Lila.
Not gonna lie, I never imagined the Ixians to have extreme body modifications. I thought that would have been appropriate but the Tleilaxu seemed to have filled that niche themselves with their metal eyes and false limbs and organs.
I saw the “high tech” Ixian concepts in spice wars and I could only think, “really?” There was something comically generic about high tech culture = cyborgs in the context of Dune. Ix always felt like it was this transitory tech hub with no real ethnic or aesthetic identity - but a mass scale place of business. As most Ixians looked normal if I recall.
But I agree - I didn’t really like this back ally gangster. Most Ixians we meet in the books occupy some role of importance, and dress nicely.
Yeah I didn't mean like extreme body mods but I meant like metallic eyes as you said. Humans but with a little tech in/on them basically. And yeah totally agree with what you say about the book Ixians.
@@secretsofdune @ Oh yeah for sure. I guess that would have allowed watches to sit back and think, “damn, this guy is loaded with tech. Walking violation right here.” Ixians had like, weird ear pierces and devices that would follow them around iir in GEoD. They could have made this guy like, loaded with little gadgets like the hunter seeker we see here. I do enjoy the high tech and out of place look of pre BJ tech. Really evokes the regressive vibes in later films. At the same time, I haven’t read any of the extended books. I’ve no clue if Brian made up any new vibes for the Ix but things like a planetary insigna on a uniform would be cool.
To me, an Ixian should have more in common with a First Foundationer from Asimov's works rather than some thug. Sometimes high prestige scientist, other times burly trader, but in the end someone that has confidence and intellect.
@@Rauruatreides yeah, I don't mind such an ixian on their planet, but their society is highly secretive and even sending them out amongst "powindah" filth is something they wouldn't do. It would have been much better to be a handler working on behalf of the Ixians, rather than an Ixian in my humble opinion.
@@secretsofdune nah that would make sense. People are always working through disposables
Why did the Landsraad do the Fremen salute? What if anything is the connection?
Was Evgeny wearing a Black Sun symbol ring (shown after he died?) Does this mean they at this point have Geidi Prime or even that they're on it and we haven't been told?
I didn’t care for that particular salute very much but I believe it was just a generic chest salute and not the Fremen one. The ring was the same symbol we have seen for House Harkonnen (or very similar) in the Dune movies which is why I suspected it might be Giedi Prime, still no confirmation of that yet but I’ve been told it is Zimia, the main city on Selusa Secundus. Again I can’t confirm.
Not sure why they added orange flecks in to Lila's eyes, __ Spoiler __ Honored Matres only developed this due to lack of spice in extremes.
Yeah that's why I mentioned that the orange eye in the opening credits could be an Honored Matres, before we saw what they did with Lila. Maybe she's still linked in some way to that.
Also a Facedancer to show up as her brother means that the Bene T were on planet long ago working the background before she left for the Sisterhood school. Brother probably did drown to be replaced, Bene T are just as smart as Bene G. If the one whistling in the palace plays through then we have also seen a Tleilaxu Master 1st time. I'll sub to follow your break downs, to many trihards now that are jumping on the bandwagon to waste time on.
Goldie 😂😂😂😂😂
😂 The Ixian grills took me out
my nitpick for this episode is that folding knives don’t seem very _Dune_ -y.
In a timeline that appears to be tens of thousands of years in our species' future, folding knives seem like even less of a reach than folding space.
I love blocking channels that spoil things in their titles/thumbnails.
Then you’ll be blocking every channel you come across. The thumbnail ain’t what you think though. Do whatever you wish though
Bene Tleilax ftw :)
I was disappointed with the Ixian, too.
This episode was interesting but it felt like they were just throwing everything they can at the wall for fan service. Wasn’t too thrilled with the Ixian, better to show me than tell me. I’m still puzzled as to what the face dancers role is.
They forgot House Pancakes!
F. Herbert kept many things vague, only hinting. The show is doing much the same. I'm beginning to get the sense the spice melange allows for telepathic projections. The novels explicitly says spice ingestion induce visions, dreams, and voices. Lila is the lynchpin for this episode, IMO. Those glowing eyes alludes to the spice, but I'm not sure of it at all. I always expected IXians to be cybernetically enhanced humans. F. Herbert always hinted.
The facedancer in this Ep must be a Master Jongleur, picked up by MS somewhere. True Facedancers weren't mastered yet by this time; BUT better versions were around and not from the Bene Tleilaxu!
Erasmus's seeing net had control of their own servants.
The two charcoal figures from the acolytes sub-con-sketches show two figures, D and M for the one's in the Know, no spoiler here ;p
I am now feeling inspired to reread the Canon cooks and slog through the Butlerian Jihad, a book I so hated that it got dumped in the trash unfinished. I don't throw away books.
Books not cooks, sorry.
I originally gave your vid a TDown until you made the Goldie crack and I knew you knew sum sh!t after all X)
LOL, what earned me the thumbs down for future ref. Always trying to improve things.
@@secretsofdune I can't remember, maybe because I watch to many breakdown vids to fast and I was weary. I'll rewatch to see if I get triggered by something or maybe it might be a repeating theme by yt'ers, might be nothing.
oh ok cool no worries
What happens if Lila acquires Hart's DNA?
Maybe the two have to meet in some way, if she is the key and he is the door so-to-speak.
@@secretsofdune "I am the key-master." "And I am the gatekeeper..."
Perfect Ixian eyes are 10,000+ years away, even MuaD'dib could have had only dark metal eyes while turning into ---- SPOILER--- the preacher
Oh and as for controlling a Facedancer, it ain't happening unless your a Bene Tleilaxu Master or Erasmus.
Did you see the one whistling in the palace? I seem to be the only one and I watched a few YT vid "break Downs"
Hope it's Master Waff!
This show takes place 11,000 years before the current Dune timeline. Have you ever heard of " evolution"???
I have and very little evolution occurs between this show and the "current Dune timeline." That's why a lot of it looks the same as the Dune movie, that's their justification for it (the Heighliners etc. It's a stagnation. So what's your point? If this is about the Ixians, if they have such technology as we've seen in the show (avoiding said stagnation until the current Dune timeline as you call it) then they are already advanced enough.
I don’t remember the timeline now, but are face dancers created yet at the time of the series??? Maybe Theo isn’t a face dancer, maybe she was the one that is gonna be used to create them all. Sounds more like her ability was something inexplicable and to be feared and she obviously hate to do that.
Not really, but we could consider her an early experiment.
Show us quickly become nonsense.. everyone who read and love Franks books cannot take this show seriously...... i still watch it but i don't respect it at all. Is have Gane of Thrones vibe, not a Dune
Thinking back now, I think the original show was the dark part of it visually, the sisterhood, the school, training, breeding index, two sisters at the helm etc, the person born twice being paul, or leto the 2nd or withing the show: lila. And that's the part of the show I really enjoy watching. And then, thinking back to people leaving due to 'creative differences', reshoots and what not, I would bet the corrino game of thrones drama sex and plotting, the cheap side of the show is what they added later and made it fit, they added desmond as another one born twice etc, probably wanting to dumb it down and have it too connected to the movies and too philosophical. It's too stark a contrast. Fantastic visuals in the sisterhood school, costumes, sets, color coding. And then we see that horrific cheap generic scifi night club and the generic palace and the generic throne room. Two separate shows.
Originally it was given more free reign where they wanted to make it look more like David Lynch's Dune aesthetically, more heraldic etc, but they tore those sets down. It's something I covered early on but it is rarely talked about.
There waas no facedancers yet during this time period of dune timeline
She could be an early experiment similar to how Desmond hart could be if he is indeed a ghola.
Aren’t the bene tellax Muslims
There is a lot of Islamic influence in the way the Bene Tleilaxu were written, yes.
Very disappointed in the story so far. The writing is not very good. It feels like they are just making up shit they think will look cool on film. Could have been so much better.
@@raygarcia5759 too many cooks in the kitchen perhaps
@@secretsofdune perhaps... over at AMC, they adapted two of Anne Rices works, Interview and Mayfair Witches. They changed a lot in Interview, but it is brilliant, they kept the spirit of the work while updating some of the characters and the setting. Mayfair witches was so dumb I couldn't finish it...
@raygarcia5759 is that the one where they made Lestat Muslim and Gay? I was wondering what people thought of that show.
@@secretsofdune lol no... they moved it up in time, and they made Louis mixed-race and the owner of some brothels and nightclubs. It's done really well, and very much fits the spirit of the work. He and lestats relationship is really fleshed out too.