The difference with Frieren and Magus, is that Frieren manages to capture attention despite not having a typical quest and reach to success. It manages to turn everthing boring into something captivating whereas Magus is more of a traditional fantasy. So starting off Frieren was on a handicap and the way it manages to top the chart on stories generally people ignore makes it 100 times better than any linear fantasy stories out there.
@@YumesukeSutashikapretty bad take. Dunes 2 must be bad quality too then. Have you ever thought maybe the show is that good thats why it's "overrated".
@@Shirombo "Dunes 2 must be bad quality too then" How the hell did you come to that conclusion from my comment? Strawman fallacy. Some of you will say anything to defend this show.
@@YumesukeSutashika a lot of your replies are just strawman fallacy. Must be your only vocab. You literally said "popularity =/= quality" with that logic anyone can come to that conclusion lol.
@@Shirombo It's not my fault you didn't pass math or can't understand basic symbols. You could've just searched up "=/=" if you didn't understand what it meant, but instead, u decided to strawman me. Your Dune argument is not a logical conclusion.
Frieren caught you off guard, because its storytelling is pretty much intimistic than a flamboyant story of fightings, isn't it? Let's have anyone the storytelling that prefers...
@@wafu6058 When did I mention fights in the entire video? You're strawmaning me and now you're trying to gaslight me on a video I made. Have some shame.
@@YumesukeSutashika going through your comments, the number of times you've accused people of strawmanning you should be indicative that you're doing something for this many people to come to the same thoughts on something. Once you release something, what you meant doesn't matter as much as what you've said, and if this many people have interpreted this way that's telling of something on your part.
@@wafu6058 Bandwagon fallacy. Of course it couldn't be the fact that sensitive fans are twisting my words because they can't argue well. "Once you release something, what you meant doesn't matter as much as what you've said, and if this many people have interpreted this way that's telling of something on your part." That is ridiculous. That's not how logic works. Maybe study logical fallacies before making so many mistakes trying to defend this anime.
I think the problem here is that your impression that Frieren´s conflict is mundane is completly subjective, it might seem tribial to you, but for others it is not so, if changing yourself was that easy there would be a lot less losers in the world. You might like stories with grander aims, but that does not make it a bad story.
anime do need goals but frieren experiments and takes the different approach giving a very vague goal. imo they done it so well where you are immersed and appreciate each part of the journey. honestly it got me to the point i preferred walking scenes over action and its just an anime i never experience before. “cherishing time” is big in this anime and you just havent watched enough of it to see it. frieren is still learning humans because frieren is pretty much “eternal” and she doesnt care about time. throughout the anime she starts to remember each moment she had with her old party through her new regretting that she should have made more memories. bouncing back valuing and not valuing time is what her character is as she lives a very long time. i started to watch the anime right before the last episode dropped all because i was interested in the fight scenes but after watching the immersion is what got me hooked in this anime. great to see another opinion and take on frieren. keep it up 👍
Many say all storytelling requires a goal and conflict, Tbh frieren proves you don't well at least in the traditional sense, her goal is to connect to the humans in her life and it doesn't require conflict either, the journey is a byproduct
@@encouraginglyauthentic43 I realize that, but some people point to the fact that there's no big bad or not enough physical conflict in an episode to episode basis as bad things in regards to Frieren, that's why I said it like that, but yeah there's plenty of conflict in Frieren just sometimes it's internal or it's a more subtle kind
This feels like a troll or a shonen fans video, if i can summarize it basically you prefer Mahoyome because its have bigger conflict and clear progression. And thats basically how (battle) shonen works, take Dragon Ball for example first Goku fight evil human, then aliens, then stronger lab specimen, then even stronger whatever buu is, then eventually actual Gods from alternate universes, the conflict just keep getting bigger, and the progression also extremely clear with how Goku have a lot of transformation. This applied to basically almost every Battle Shonen anime, more power mode, bigger stronger threats. But does it make it better tho? Which one is more "interesting"? a non human emotionless creature trying to understand emotion or a human-like being that realize they are not spent their time enough with person that close to them until it was too late? i guess objectively Mahoyome more "interesting", but no one can actually relate to that. Frieren doesn't have real conflict because it doesn't actually need that, its just a great wholesome, fun, slice of life fantasy, with a bit of power fantasy, and nice life messages sprinkled here and there.
@@YumesukeSutashika dude you literally said "Which progress sounds more interesting? A guy getting 10 pounds or a guy getting 100 pounds of muscle, the answer should be the latter" "Which story sounds more interesting? A guy a guy wanting to eat a healthy food instead of junk food, or a guy wanting, or the guy wanting to be the best boxer of the world?" how is it a strawman for me to said that you prefer something bigger instead of something relatable?
@@WhoTao00 No. Instead of taking the first sentence where I clearly defined my issue, you took my exaggerated and simplified example so that you could twist its meaning. My body paragraph starters were "Frieren’s first disadvantage is that the primary conflict doesn’t have a strong enough obstacle." and "What the protagonist accomplishing her goal would look like isn’t immediately interesting, especially from the first few episodes." Furthermore, I clarified the examples were exaggerated when I said, "Here's an exaggerated example to nail home the point" and "I’ll give another exaggerated comparison: Turn on the subtitles or read the transcript if listening isn't your strong suit. You put more effort into researching what you think I like instead of just listening to this video where I spelled out what I was looking for.
@@YumesukeSutashika isn't that have the same message? "Frieren’s first disadvantage is that the primary conflict doesn’t have a strong enough obstacle." isn't that same as saying you prefer story with strong conflict. Tell me whats the difference?
@@WhoTao00 1st comment: "you prefer Mahoyome because its have BIGGER conflict" 2nd comment: "how is it a strawman for me to said that you prefer something BIGGER instead of something relatable?" 3rd comment: "isn't that same as saying you prefer story with STRONG conflict. " You went from saying I want bigger conflict and don't like relatable conflict to saying I want strong conflict. If you were gonna lie, the least you could've done was edit your previous comments. If you're gonna be shamelessly dishonest, you might as well go all the way.
I’m sure the people who like this show like it for good reason it just isn’t for me. I only watched the first episode before dropping it because it gave me Moby Dick vibes. If you don’t know Moby Dick is a classic American book about whaling and it’s super boring to read because the author wanted to capture how boring it felt to actually go whaling in real life. That’s how watching Frieren felt like it was boring and bland on purpose to capture the apathy the main character was feeling as a result of her immortality. I am sure it gets better and that it’s a super deep story and all that but I don’t vibe with the start; I can find good stories that are deep and thoughtful while also being engaging and enjoyable.
@@YumesukeSutashika 1000 percent but thats because it goes against my personal preference; if they made the story boring intentionally and achieved that I can’t call them a straight up bad writer just one that makes choices I don’t agree with. Like if a chef set out to make something that tasted bland and then they did that I can’t just call that chef a bad chef… a dumb one maybe but not bad. It’s very clear to me that this story was made this way on purpose and that some people really like that I just really really don’t and I never will.
Hm, I respectfully disagree, learning magic from the guidance of a master magician and being nice to him in return would be much easier/conflictless than changing your entire way of life hundreds of years later. Frieren only recently understood how ignorant she was towards humans short lifecycles, she only came to understand this after the person she cherished most died before she was even aware of her own feelings. She is only now learning from the memories he created with her, but he is gone forever and she might never hear his voice again (which I can hugely relate to thinking about my grandparents, wishing I would've spent more time with them). She lived isolated for hundreds of years, so changing and actually forcing herself to give a f about others is much harder after living most of her life alone. In the beginning she mostly helps people because Himmel would have also helped them (she does this mostly for him, not for getting praised) and it's incredibly hard for her to understand the kids she's traveling with. Despite having not a lot of battle conflicts, the inner struggles here are much more interesting to me than whenever she simply defeats some demon or simple monster. It's like when Saitama from One Punch Man admitted he's a terrible hero for always being too late. It doesn't matter how OP he is if people die and towns get destroyed because his timing sucks. This inner weakness made me like him more.
"I understand why many people dislike Frieren because it's too overhyped, but it can't be denied that the storyline, animation, and soundtrack are excellent. If you truly hate Frieren, there must be hole in your heart.i understand its not the best anime all of time but its one of great anime in this years
@@YumesukeSutashika dude it's the anime community. Their collective IQ is room temperature. They don't know how to like something without being blind to its flaws or lack of good writing. To them, being a critique and being a hater is synonymous.
EDIT: None of this matters, you yourself said you only watched some episodes, formulating a full opinion on something you've seen partially to only then mention it at the end of the video is poor form and honestly makes any opinion/video completely meaningless. I hope you avoid making videos this half baked in the future because you clearly are decent at it, whether you like something or dislike it - an opinion without having watched the entirety of something is worthless to people trying to get a whole picture of something, and reflects poorly on you in cases where portions or the entirety of your opinion becomes redundant due to what happens in what you haven't seen, which I think as others have pointed out might be the case to a degree here too. I think the degree of importance youre placing on conflict being a central driver is overboard. Conflict is one of the EASIEST ways and most COMMON ways to build development but the idea that it is central and necessary which is what you seem to be implying is a bit bizzare given that there are plenty of plots that carry better stories and journeys without conflict. I also wonder if you watched the entirety of it or not as its bizzare you mention there isnt conflict except that its very much there throughout the show, but maybe not to the pacing, degree and extent of your liking? It seemed like a bit of your criticisms about freiren might stem from the pacing and the results of a lot of things not being immediate. Ultimately I disagree having seen both animes, theres so much more to the story, plot and development in freiren than Magus Bride, and it feels more like this is a preferential thing rather than an objective criticism from a neutral standpoint about freiren.
Horrible argument. That's the Unfinished Fallacy. Whether I completed the show or not doesn't affect whether what I said was true or not. If it wasn't true, you should be able to prove it. I hope you avoid making comments this fallacious and dishonest in the future. (Here's a list of more bad arguments to avoid: th-cam.com/video/ULVh9Hwl1mo/w-d-xo.html) Like I said in the video, conflict is arguably the most important bone in the skeleton of a story. If you disagree, move on. I compared the beginning of Frieren to the beginning of Bride. Both stories increase in conflict over time, but I'm noticing how you didn't say anything to defend Bride's increase in conflict. Sounds dishonest. My problem is not pacing. Why is it so hard to listen to what I say? There are subtitles and transcripts if that's too difficult. I laid out my points in a simple fashion and even recapped them at the end. "theres so much more to the story, plot and development in freiren than Magus Bride." At what point did I talk about the "amount of xyz" as an argument? I didn't because that is something was too vague to argue. What is preferential is what I choose to value. What is objective is how I compared the qualities that I valued.
@@YumesukeSutashika I didn't speak about truth, I spoke about validity. It's ironic to cite fallacies when it's a bit of poor form to clearly not make any effort to understand anything anybody is saying Your opinion only effects what you've seen, the idea you can formulate an opinion about an entire show while only seeing a few episodes is just illogical, surely you can see that. This is irrespective of whether you enjoy or don't enjoy a show. It's simply bad faith to present an opinion on any matter you haven't done the best to know the ins and outs of. Im saying your comparisons are objectively flawed by working with limited information. If people are picking up that you clearly haven't watched an entire show by the objective aspects of your argument then there's something fundamentally wrong. It doesn't seem like you are open to any healthy discourse without engaging in degrees of bad faith arguments by citing argumentative methods instead.
@@wafu6058 You're splitting hairs. VALID: (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent. TRUE: in accordance with fact or reality If what if I said is true, then it is valid. You saying my arguments aren't based in logic or fact because I didn't finish the story is illogical. If it wasn't based in logic, then you should be able to prove that. Surely you can see that.
These kind of videos of yours really make me get better at school , in my romanian class we always gotta make these type of analytics and characterizations
Frieren doesnt have the grandest plot but the way it was delivered was captivating. And given that it follows the manga's storyline, the anime made it like a standalone series with how it was animated plus more. It's a cinema to say the least.
Is an interesting take, but the premise in Frieren is good and new, since we are seeing the pov of something not human, shes an elve after all and the author and anime director manage to do very well. We feel emphaty to Frieren but only because we see the trully human emotions on Himmel and Fern. So comparing her to Chise or Dr. Tenma dont have much sense, with Elias then he have a point. But hes correct in that Frieren suffer a little in the plot continuity, it happen in the manga too, even after the "exam arc" there are a lot of chapters that are very "slow" and dont add much to the plot until the next "arc" except to add fashbacks to the OG party to deliver the little cue the author want us to know, yes those little cues will add later and be important, but the way is delivered will get repetitive and boring if overused. Is Frieren that good ? Yes it is, is overhyped? ofc, as any "popular" stuff, just givit time and it will find her true place in history. After all thas the true premise of Frieren, "time".
there are a lot of people who don't wach anime but they like frieren , that why this show is popular it has good animation good music, the story is simple and no fanservice , i like magus but unfortunally some people don't like character like elias , all the character in frieren are easy to understand and for the beginner in anime its better
How many episodes of Frieren did you actually watch? If you didn't watch the entire first season you would know that there are multiple characters with conflicts internal and external. Not that I don't also love Magus Bride. But Magus is more of a drama/romance than Frieren, which is drama/slice of life comedy
The atypical storytelling is what makes it great... the fact that it draws people in even without having things that you'd assume were essential to a story like this.
This seems to be an analysis based on expectations for what fantasy is supposed to be, while Frieren is a show that deliberately subverts tropes, if it follows them at all. If you're looking for a pattern that all these other shows have followed, then try to do a "who did it better?" comparison involving a show that simply doesn't have those patterns, you're going to fall short. I recommend giving Frieren a re-watch without these expectations. Just watch and take it in, see if you like it or not after that. In fact, I recommend that for any show. I think we've gotten too attached to formulas and ideas of what a story has to contain in order to be considered "good". I think Frieren is popular because it has detached itself from a lot of those same formulas, but still follows enough of our modern sense of pacing and flow to not be too jarring for people who are used to those formulas.
I’m sure something else will come along and take the number one spot on MAL. Rinse and repeat. At this point we can say MAL is an indicator of hype, not quality.
I almost don't use MAL, except when I'm trying to figure out how many anime are there this season. Which is a lot. I also usually don't give that much about "score". If it's more than 7, it usually means it might be interesting. Below - depends. There are other places where I get recommendations from.
@@Klotschie I rarely rate Anime at all. Especially given how I'm personally very easy to - it's not exactly hype, but while I watch something and I like it, I overrate it. Hence IF I rate something I usually wait around a month or two after it ended to rate the series. I wait several hours to rate the episodes after I go over them meticulously and think of possible flaws. Which is a tedious process. So I rated about 10-15 series on MAL. Recommendations I get from my friends and from places like Gigguk and other YT channels. Of course I'm not going to watch whatever they recommend. I will first check if it is even the genre I might be interested in.
Long story short. 99% of people who watch it love it. People can have a different opinion but it still doesnt take away the fact its anime of the year and is iconic now.
@YumesukeSutashika if the quality wasn't good then it wouldn't be popular. People know what they like and 99% of people who watch it like the anime. So factually it is a top tier anime.
I dont think its fair when you try to compare a story about what happens after the main story, with an anime with the main story is not technically finished. but i think i agree with the character analysis
Frieren and Magus Bride are similar and I only compared them in places they were similar. As for Monster, themes are universal and follow the same rules regardless of context.
@@YumesukeSutashika Obstacle in Frieren case is DEATH, wasted time and her attempt to not repeat her mistake. Those kind of obstacle are impossible to overcome. . But overall your analysis is flat. I mean - you basicly throw shit for absence "I want to become a hokage" type of goal which is kinda pathetic
@@YumesukeSutashika Frieren's journey is not that deep, and i agree with it. but the reason she set another adventure is not because of she wants to be someone powerful, or besause of vengance, but because of mourn
@@Алексей545-т6бIf you were more concerened with an honest discussion rather than shielding the story from criticism, your comment wouldn't be this illogical. It wouldn't have random pot shots to make yourself feel better. Death is not an obstacle to her internal conflict.
I watched the entirety of Frieren's first season and I'm looking forward to the next season. Imo it didn't live up to the hype at all (people were calling it a masterpiece), but it was still good. My biggest critique is that none of the characters seem to emote properly, so the character interactions and emotional stakes fall a little flat. Conversely, I gave up on Magus Bride after an episode or 2 and never went back to it. I don't remember what it was that I didn't like about it, but maybe I'll give it another chance.
@@snimon5824 To me, most of the characters have a pretty flat affect in situations where I'd expect to see more overt emotional expression. Stark not so much, but the rest of the characters yeah. I know Frieren herself is supposed to be like that for narratively established reasons, but emotions ran abnormally cool for pretty much the entire cast in my view.
Ok that's weird my comment disappeared. What was saying was that i personally like how they handle their emotions, its pretty grounded for the most part. I think its that most anime is over expressive that when Frieren tones it down, it becomes emotionless to some.
@@snimon5824 Thanks for sharing your perspective! (and sorry I'm about to be longwinded about this out for no good reason, but I'm a sucker for over-explaining myself😄) Yeah, it does contrast with the average anime in that regard, but I really do think they went a little too much in the opposite direction and it negatively affected the emotional stakes. In real life (at least in my experience) people's anger, happiness, discomfort, and frustration gets conveyed in the eyebrows, mouth position, intonation, and body language quite easily. Those cues (which are easy enough to translate to animation) felt underserved in Frieren, facial expression and intonation being the biggest problems. Fern is the worst offender imo because we see her miffed and outright angry plenty of times, with Frieren/Stark even calling her scary, but she looks and sounds incredibly tame and subdued. Sense, the examiner with the long hair, looks and sounds straight up emotionless most of the time even if she is expressing concern about something. Himmel also bugged me because of his near constant polite smile and voice. Perhaps he is like that because he's keeping up his image all the time, but it made him feel kinda one-note to me. A lot of the students in the first class mage exam never seemed appropriately ruffled by the situations they were in as well, for example Land (somewhat understandable), Ubel, Wirbel, Richter, Laufen, Edel, and of course Fern. I also would have expected more from the students who failed/passed the exam than what we got. It was a life or death trial that could grant them any spell they wanted if they succeeded, and if they fail they have to put their lives on the line again in three years to have another chance. Those are high stakes, but the level of despair/jubilation at the outcome made it feel like it wasn't really that big of a deal. In real life I can compare it to something like exam results day and/or graduation day for highschoolers; the people who pass or fail show pretty open jubilation and despair about the outcome in my experience, and the stakes are arguably lower. In anime I could compare it to something like the chunin exams from Naruto, where I felt the emotional weight of what was happening was better delivered. Stark is the only character that comes to mind that feels properly fleshed out, and I think old jaded Serie makes sense how she is. But the rest of them "weren't giving what they were supposed to give" to me.
That's because the characters are written more like actual humans instead of over the top anime cliches. Their emotions are extremely clear but not over acted. Except for Stark who's the occasional comic relief when he's not in battle mode. Frieren has multiple different aspects of her personality while Fern is a little more reserved and a bit shy. But Fern and Frieren have very expressive faces when not in battle. They have stoic faces in battle because they are mages and magic requires extreme concentration, so most mages just look focused in combat. Only Ubel, who's a little crazy, and Wirble smile during combat. Wirbel does it for show of confidence. But when characters are just living their lives they are much more expressive.
Stories that are similar in terms of quality are excused from the one who is better through comparison, and having clean progress is a strength that makes one work better than the other........but what do you know jjk fan about good stories?
@@3bdul_7amid having clear progression isn’t a necessity, although it can be considered a strength there are many good story’s that are incredible without clear progression. A perfect example would be Ladybird which has no clear progression went on to be one of the most critically acclaimed films and is still praised to this day and it’s due to its clever smart storytelling, character, and scenes. Frieren shares a lot of the same qualities that made LadyBird great. Also me being a jjk fan doesn’t mean i think the story is good i might just enjoy the characters. You saying that proves nothing good try tho
@@kinjihakari930 JJK characters are very bad, and the writer focuses on the Mid characters, such as Todo, Hakari, Panda, Choso, Yuki, inomaki, Sukuna, and Kashimo, and leaves out the really good characters in writing, such as Kenjaku, Gojo, Megumi, Yuji, Maki, and Kamo, jonpi
@@kinjihakari930 Nice try, Lil Nigga........but clean progress was and will remain better than any absurd method followed by directors who claim to be creative. Also, Lady Bird is an mid quality film, and you could have mentioned other films that are better than it in this regard.
@@3bdul_7amid way to avoid what i said. Also every character you named in the second list i enjoy, I really don’t care for anyone on the first list except for Hakari and that’s just cause he’s cool.
While Magnus Bride have a more "interesting" premise with a more tangible intention (although you have to get past the first episodes to reach that point) and more dramatic obstacles, it is however not something can relate to. Like how many people can relate with Chise who believe she only deserved to die at the beginning of the show. Who can relate with Elias a mystical creature who want to learn human emotions. It's very hard to relate to them and hence hard to empathize with them when they faces the said obstacles. Meanwhile, Frieren doesn't have a dramatic or, you could even say, an engaging premise, it's just the story about a girl who regrets not spending enough time with people you loved. It's easy to relate with, especially in this day and age where people spend so much time looking at screens. The story doesn't have any real obstacle, but it doesn't have too. Because the story here is used to convey the message of the show: treasure the mundanes days with your loved ones before it's too late.
i get your point, but a good message dosen't mean good story, we have a ton of story who can gives the same message with a more engaging story, and even if he dosen't have too be engaging , i fell that he missing something and is not enough to not make me want skip some moments or even drop the series (i just watched entirely too have the right too talk) hoppfully i expres myself well :/
That is your opinion - and ok. I do feel like people judging whole Anime based on couple initial episodes is a bit unfair though. That is my only gripe with this video. And yes Magus Bride is very underrated.
another things is that this whole emotional theme that time is valuable and want t know friends more.is only in first few episodes. its first some episodes were only good since it actually had the important conflicts of frieren. in later series and mind you the series is freaking 28 episodes.most of it is just unimportant mudane and boring things. its definetly the other name for overrated.
My general problem with freiren this also includes the manga is how its main selling point(Teaching Freiren how to value time and human relationships) and its scenarios(What the Gang does) isn't connected in a way that you would recognize to connect x scene to x lesson. Which makes the show or story telling forgettable. Especially in the manga I asked a bunch of people what could they recall on what the gang did in between the Mage exams and El Dorado heck even before the mage exams, most of us couldn't even chronologically name much of what has transpired in those instances and only rember major fighting arcs. I even forgot what happened in ghe 1sy half of the mage exams. While the Anime did a better job, the same problem still exist. In months time I would probably forget 80% what has transpired in freiren. unironically El Dorado is a way better arc, themes Which are the most compelling in the series and character writing compared to the majority of Freirens screen time in the series.
You completely missed what the story is about, it's not about valuing time at all it's about valuing people and relationships, it's about learning from your mistakes and making changes, bro in monster learns nothing in the end even after realizing he made a mistake he's just trying to justify that he was right all along, Frieren is about change and having the ability to do so. Sometimes there aren't tangible markers of achievement except the behaviors of those around you, the lives you have affected and the memories you make. You're stuck in the thinking that storytelling requires a goal and conflict, to a degree I feel as though it does require challenges and she has faced those, she is only just realizing and actioning the changes she should have made with Himmel and the heroes party with Fern and Stark while facing new challenges that parallel those of the past. My proof that good storytelling doesn't require a goal or at least an outwardly broadcast one e.g. Kill the demon King is open world video games, the popularity of open world games comes from the freedom to what you want and write your own stories, your end goal is your own. Frierens journey is an internal one the goal is her own as are the goals of every other character in the show, the outward journey is a byproduct of that and is only important in the fact that it's going to help her internal journey of growth. There are other themes like the value of teamwork, doing things for others selflessly, helping those in need, life after death, the journey is as important as the destination, being present in the moment etc... There are way more too and the supposedly "mundane" things she does are about those things. I also don't get the hate for it being popular and saying because it's popular it's not great storytelling, it's one of the best written pieces of fantasy media of any kind to come out in the last 30 years, is a modern classic and in my top 5 anime all time after watching well over 1000 anime, because I take it for what it is, not what it isn't and I'm able to change my view on things as time progresses.
I understand your point of view, but that doesn't justify anything. Yes, "Frieren" is about Frieren learning to understand others better, to take advantage of them before they leave, etc. Frieren stays true to herself and does it in a simple and effective way, there's no debate about that. The problem is that on paper it's good, but for an anime of 25 minutes per episode in a series of 28 episodes, it's much less so. There are a lot of shows that talk about personal growth and enjoying those close to you, and that do it while maintaining a certain level of suspense. But for “Frieren,” there are very few ways to engage with the world where she does her little things, or where Himmel marked his name forever. I also find it hard to say to myself "frankly, Himmel was really a good guy, it's a shame that Frieren knew him so poorly." A good anime is not just a message, but a whole. A good message doesn't necessarily mean a good story, it's only part of the whole. “Frieren” is a series that focuses more on social interactions, okay, but you might as well watch something else that does more or less the same thing. If you really liked "Frieren", ok, fair enough, but don't sit around calling "Frieren" "the best fantasy manga" while denigrating the rest just because its message touched you more than any other. "Frieren" is a decent story that touches on some worthy themes, but as an anime it doesn't come across for me and I wonder why people don't at least want to understand us. I hope I expressed myself well.
@@laskouide_newragingbulls oh that's just one aspect that makes the writing good, I was just making a point that the journey is the point and it's as much an internal one as it is an external one. The characters, the world building, the demons, the magic system, the dynamics of each class, the relationships, how everything is interconnected, how the actions of one character can affect more than just that character and the messages and lessons are all great. That's before even mentioning the movie level production quality from the animation, cinematography, direction, effects work, art, sound, voice acting, music etc... it is one of the best pieces of fantasy in any medium to me whether you agree with that is up to you, I get your perspective but I don't agree with it Frieren has so many layers to it and to boil it down to one or two things tells me that person didn't pay attention to all the details and I'm OK with that kind of person not liking the same things I do, I just like pointing out how great it is 🤣
What's also good to note is that even without a clear conflict or tangible obstacles, a story can still compensate by AT THE VERY LEAST having interesting dialogue and interactions between characters. The character dynamics aren't interesting at all, both Frerein's old party and her new one. They feel so bland and 2 dimensional even when they do try to show their back stories and motivations. So if a story can't compel you through action sequences or drama, then surely its dialogue and interactions would, right? That's the BARE MINIMUM and Frerein couldn't even accomplish that. It's honestly impressive how when I already got to more than half of the episodes I still didn't care about a single character, which is such a waste cuz I liked their designs. Goes to show how only having good looking characters and good animation is enough to make weebs consider it a masterpiece.
@@Bjjboxing one that's generally fun or compelling. If the type of interaction where the characters bring out the best and most entertaining parts of their personalities to the fullest doesn't fit the tone (so let's say it's supposed to be a bit more dark or melancholic perhaps, therefore 'fun' isn't fitting), then have it be thought provoking, while still making the characters be likeable in a fun or entertaining way (instead of 'just because it's melancholic, everyone acts sad and damp all the time). They tried that but they failed imo. You can disagree with that, that's fine, but that's how I felt. Especifically the dynamic between Frieren, Fern and Stark. Their personalities were too close from each other (especially Frieren and Fern) the three of them are just different shades of unenthusiastic with one them just occasionally exhibiting an ever so slightly different behaviour for a little bit of time before they eventually turn back into being somewhat unenthusiastic. Their personalities are only different by a little bit which is little enough to make their group dynamic feel redundant. Long story short, just make the characters have different enough personalities that their behavior and reactions to situations differ. That's really all it is.
@@CaptainPowow I don't understand what you mean by fun or compelling. I don't know what you mean by thought provoking. I don't know what you mean by likeable. How did they fail? You are just using a bunch of buzzwords. Someone can just say the opposite of what you said Their personalities are different I don't understand your point on that. The only trait Fern and Frieren really share is that they are socially awkward but that's shown in different ways. Fern is easily bothered and moody. Frieren is not. Frieren is sometimes lazy(sleeps late) and spends without thinking. Fern does the opposite. These are things that are handled in several episodes(I don't know how you missed that). Stark is different from the two. He acts like a coward but is brave and shown to get along a lot with a variety of people(every village he visits a bunch of people like him). If anything Stark and Frieren are more similar since they both act lazy only for Fern to scold them(but their are clear differences and their dynamic with Fern is completely different). Stark is almost a love interest to Fern. Frieren is like a mom or big sister to Fern
@@Bjjboxing Like I said, different shades. Not exactly the same but still not different enough to make the interactions all that entertaining. I know that the differences are there I just think the differences are so miniscule at least in my eyes and also at least in comparison to different group dynamics. Keep in my mind, that ISN'T really a big problem unless your story doesn't have enough action/drama/conflict to compensate. Due to the absence of those elements, to keep the story interesting you'll have to rely solely on those character interactions and dynamics, and the fact of the matter is- their interactions just aren't interesting ENOUGH. I get it if you still think they were interesting, I suppose that makes this more subjective criticism than anything, but as someone who generally likes stoic characters, I felt this show just had too much of them.
@@CaptainPowow I hard disagree. You can't say it is small when it is literally shown to be different in many areas and even the opposite in some(and the show uses the differences in several episodes ie the staff) I don't know what you mean by interesting enough. There's a difference between subjective and just inaccurate. You are on the latter end. They are not even stoic characters. Frieren cries in the first few episodes and smiles to herself about changing other people several times. Stark whines a bunch. Fern is moody like every other episode. Stoic doesn't mean "I have a serious face while fighting". But have a good one tho. I am trying to see if people have really good arguments as why Frieren is bad
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Remember, there are subtitles and there's a transcript.
I think 'To Your Eternity' is a much better version of Frieren. It tackles similar themes but they're greatly challenged throughout the story.
This what the haters wants to believe. 😂
this is what all the fanboys respond too a negative criticism about frieren
The difference with Frieren and Magus, is that Frieren manages to capture attention despite not having a typical quest and reach to success. It manages to turn everthing boring into something captivating whereas Magus is more of a traditional fantasy.
So starting off Frieren was on a handicap and the way it manages to top the chart on stories generally people ignore makes it 100 times better than any linear fantasy stories out there.
popularity =/= quality
@@YumesukeSutashikapretty bad take. Dunes 2 must be bad quality too then. Have you ever thought maybe the show is that good thats why it's "overrated".
@@Shirombo "Dunes 2 must be bad quality too then" How the hell did you come to that conclusion from my comment? Strawman fallacy. Some of you will say anything to defend this show.
@@YumesukeSutashika a lot of your replies are just strawman fallacy. Must be your only vocab. You literally said "popularity =/= quality" with that logic anyone can come to that conclusion lol.
@@Shirombo It's not my fault you didn't pass math or can't understand basic symbols. You could've just searched up "=/=" if you didn't understand what it meant, but instead, u decided to strawman me. Your Dune argument is not a logical conclusion.
Ehh I disagree with a bunch but interesting take
Frieren caught you off guard, because its storytelling is pretty much intimistic than a flamboyant story of fightings, isn't it?
Let's have anyone the storytelling that prefers...
Watch the video instead of strawmanning me
@@YumesukeSutashika but thats literally what youre saying...
@@wafu6058 When did I mention fights in the entire video? You're strawmaning me and now you're trying to gaslight me on a video I made. Have some shame.
@@YumesukeSutashika going through your comments, the number of times you've accused people of strawmanning you should be indicative that you're doing something for this many people to come to the same thoughts on something.
Once you release something, what you meant doesn't matter as much as what you've said, and if this many people have interpreted this way that's telling of something on your part.
@@wafu6058 Bandwagon fallacy. Of course it couldn't be the fact that sensitive fans are twisting my words because they can't argue well.
"Once you release something, what you meant doesn't matter as much as what you've said, and if this many people have interpreted this way that's telling of something on your part."
That is ridiculous. That's not how logic works. Maybe study logical fallacies before making so many mistakes trying to defend this anime.
I think the problem here is that your impression that Frieren´s conflict is mundane is completly subjective, it might seem tribial to you, but for others it is not so, if changing yourself was that easy there would be a lot less losers in the world. You might like stories with grander aims, but that does not make it a bad story.
anime do need goals but frieren experiments and takes the different approach giving a very vague goal. imo they done it so well where you are immersed and appreciate each part of the journey. honestly it got me to the point i preferred walking scenes over action and its just an anime i never experience before. “cherishing time” is big in this anime and you just havent watched enough of it to see it. frieren is still learning humans because frieren is pretty much “eternal” and she doesnt care about time. throughout the anime she starts to remember each moment she had with her old party through her new regretting that she should have made more memories. bouncing back valuing and not valuing time is what her character is as she lives a very long time.
i started to watch the anime right before the last episode dropped all because i was interested in the fight scenes but after watching the immersion is what got me hooked in this anime.
great to see another opinion and take on frieren. keep it up 👍
Many say all storytelling requires a goal and conflict, Tbh frieren proves you don't well at least in the traditional sense, her goal is to connect to the humans in her life and it doesn't require conflict either, the journey is a byproduct
@@Scyon13Conflict is more than fights bro.
Conflict can be manipulation, annoyances, anything that can cause an inconvenience.
@@encouraginglyauthentic43 I realize that, but some people point to the fact that there's no big bad or not enough physical conflict in an episode to episode basis as bad things in regards to Frieren, that's why I said it like that, but yeah there's plenty of conflict in Frieren just sometimes it's internal or it's a more subtle kind
@@Scyon13 I see what you mean, yeah most people just want fights all the time, that's why mid slayer was popular.
This feels like a troll or a shonen fans video, if i can summarize it basically you prefer Mahoyome because its have bigger conflict and clear progression. And thats basically how (battle) shonen works, take Dragon Ball for example first Goku fight evil human, then aliens, then stronger lab specimen, then even stronger whatever buu is, then eventually actual Gods from alternate universes, the conflict just keep getting bigger, and the progression also extremely clear with how Goku have a lot of transformation. This applied to basically almost every Battle Shonen anime, more power mode, bigger stronger threats. But does it make it better tho?
Which one is more "interesting"? a non human emotionless creature trying to understand emotion or a human-like being that realize they are not spent their time enough with person that close to them until it was too late? i guess objectively Mahoyome more "interesting", but no one can actually relate to that. Frieren doesn't have real conflict because it doesn't actually need that, its just a great wholesome, fun, slice of life fantasy, with a bit of power fantasy, and nice life messages sprinkled here and there.
So instead of listening to what i said, you decided to strawman me.
@@YumesukeSutashika dude you literally said
"Which progress sounds more interesting? A guy getting 10 pounds or a guy getting 100 pounds of muscle, the answer should be the latter"
"Which story sounds more interesting? A guy a guy wanting to eat a healthy food instead of junk food, or a guy wanting, or the guy wanting to be the best boxer of the world?"
how is it a strawman for me to said that you prefer something bigger instead of something relatable?
@@WhoTao00 No. Instead of taking the first sentence where I clearly defined my issue, you took my exaggerated and simplified example so that you could twist its meaning. My body paragraph starters were
"Frieren’s first disadvantage is that the primary conflict doesn’t have a strong enough obstacle."
and
"What the protagonist accomplishing her goal would look like isn’t immediately interesting, especially from the first few episodes."
Furthermore, I clarified the examples were exaggerated when I said, "Here's an exaggerated example to nail home the point" and "I’ll give another exaggerated comparison:
Turn on the subtitles or read the transcript if listening isn't your strong suit. You put more effort into researching what you think I like instead of just listening to this video where I spelled out what I was looking for.
@@YumesukeSutashika isn't that have the same message?
"Frieren’s first disadvantage is that the primary conflict doesn’t have a strong enough obstacle."
isn't that same as saying you prefer story with strong conflict.
Tell me whats the difference?
@@WhoTao00 1st comment: "you prefer Mahoyome because its have BIGGER conflict"
2nd comment: "how is it a strawman for me to said that you prefer something BIGGER instead of something relatable?"
3rd comment: "isn't that same as saying you prefer story with STRONG conflict. "
You went from saying I want bigger conflict and don't like relatable conflict to saying I want strong conflict. If you were gonna lie, the least you could've done was edit your previous comments. If you're gonna be shamelessly dishonest, you might as well go all the way.
I’m sure the people who like this show like it for good reason it just isn’t for me.
I only watched the first episode before dropping it because it gave me Moby Dick vibes. If you don’t know Moby Dick is a classic American book about whaling and it’s super boring to read because the author wanted to capture how boring it felt to actually go whaling in real life.
That’s how watching Frieren felt like it was boring and bland on purpose to capture the apathy the main character was feeling as a result of her immortality.
I am sure it gets better and that it’s a super deep story and all that but I don’t vibe with the start; I can find good stories that are deep and thoughtful while also being engaging and enjoyable.
For me, a story being boring is a symptom of bad writing
@@YumesukeSutashika 1000 percent but thats because it goes against my personal preference; if they made the story boring intentionally and achieved that I can’t call them a straight up bad writer just one that makes choices I don’t agree with.
Like if a chef set out to make something that tasted bland and then they did that I can’t just call that chef a bad chef… a dumb one maybe but not bad.
It’s very clear to me that this story was made this way on purpose and that some people really like that I just really really don’t and I never will.
I like it. It is good. It is also overrated. Fantasy anime has been so bad lately that it make Frieren like the perfect anime.
Hm, I respectfully disagree, learning magic from the guidance of a master magician and being nice to him in return would be much easier/conflictless than changing your entire way of life hundreds of years later. Frieren only recently understood how ignorant she was towards humans short lifecycles, she only came to understand this after the person she cherished most died before she was even aware of her own feelings. She is only now learning from the memories he created with her, but he is gone forever and she might never hear his voice again (which I can hugely relate to thinking about my grandparents, wishing I would've spent more time with them). She lived isolated for hundreds of years, so changing and actually forcing herself to give a f about others is much harder after living most of her life alone. In the beginning she mostly helps people because Himmel would have also helped them (she does this mostly for him, not for getting praised) and it's incredibly hard for her to understand the kids she's traveling with. Despite having not a lot of battle conflicts, the inner struggles here are much more interesting to me than whenever she simply defeats some demon or simple monster.
It's like when Saitama from One Punch Man admitted he's a terrible hero for always being too late. It doesn't matter how OP he is if people die and towns get destroyed because his timing sucks. This inner weakness made me like him more.
"I understand why many people dislike Frieren because it's too overhyped, but it can't be denied that the storyline, animation, and soundtrack are excellent. If you truly hate Frieren, there must be hole in your heart.i understand its not the best anime all of time but its one of great anime in this years
Delusional comment
Lol what a haters
@@YumesukeSutashika dude it's the anime community. Their collective IQ is room temperature. They don't know how to like something without being blind to its flaws or lack of good writing. To them, being a critique and being a hater is synonymous.
EDIT: None of this matters, you yourself said you only watched some episodes, formulating a full opinion on something you've seen partially to only then mention it at the end of the video is poor form and honestly makes any opinion/video completely meaningless. I hope you avoid making videos this half baked in the future because you clearly are decent at it, whether you like something or dislike it - an opinion without having watched the entirety of something is worthless to people trying to get a whole picture of something, and reflects poorly on you in cases where portions or the entirety of your opinion becomes redundant due to what happens in what you haven't seen, which I think as others have pointed out might be the case to a degree here too.
I think the degree of importance youre placing on conflict being a central driver is overboard. Conflict is one of the EASIEST ways and most COMMON ways to build development but the idea that it is central and necessary which is what you seem to be implying is a bit bizzare given that there are plenty of plots that carry better stories and journeys without conflict.
I also wonder if you watched the entirety of it or not as its bizzare you mention there isnt conflict except that its very much there throughout the show, but maybe not to the pacing, degree and extent of your liking?
It seemed like a bit of your criticisms about freiren might stem from the pacing and the results of a lot of things not being immediate.
Ultimately I disagree having seen both animes, theres so much more to the story, plot and development in freiren than Magus Bride, and it feels more like this is a preferential thing rather than an objective criticism from a neutral standpoint about freiren.
Horrible argument. That's the Unfinished Fallacy. Whether I completed the show or not doesn't affect whether what I said was true or not. If it wasn't true, you should be able to prove it. I hope you avoid making comments this fallacious and dishonest in the future. (Here's a list of more bad arguments to avoid: th-cam.com/video/ULVh9Hwl1mo/w-d-xo.html)
Like I said in the video, conflict is arguably the most important bone in the skeleton of a story. If you disagree, move on. I compared the beginning of Frieren to the beginning of Bride. Both stories increase in conflict over time, but I'm noticing how you didn't say anything to defend Bride's increase in conflict. Sounds dishonest. My problem is not pacing. Why is it so hard to listen to what I say? There are subtitles and transcripts if that's too difficult. I laid out my points in a simple fashion and even recapped them at the end. "theres so much more to the story, plot and development in freiren than Magus Bride." At what point did I talk about the "amount of xyz" as an argument? I didn't because that is something was too vague to argue. What is preferential is what I choose to value. What is objective is how I compared the qualities that I valued.
@@YumesukeSutashika I didn't speak about truth, I spoke about validity. It's ironic to cite fallacies when it's a bit of poor form to clearly not make any effort to understand anything anybody is saying
Your opinion only effects what you've seen, the idea you can formulate an opinion about an entire show while only seeing a few episodes is just illogical, surely you can see that. This is irrespective of whether you enjoy or don't enjoy a show. It's simply bad faith to present an opinion on any matter you haven't done the best to know the ins and outs of.
Im saying your comparisons are objectively flawed by working with limited information.
If people are picking up that you clearly haven't watched an entire show by the objective aspects of your argument then there's something fundamentally wrong.
It doesn't seem like you are open to any healthy discourse without engaging in degrees of bad faith arguments by citing argumentative methods instead.
@@wafu6058 You're splitting hairs.
VALID: (of an argument or point) having a sound basis in logic or fact; reasonable or cogent.
TRUE: in accordance with fact or reality
If what if I said is true, then it is valid. You saying my arguments aren't based in logic or fact because I didn't finish the story is illogical. If it wasn't based in logic, then you should be able to prove that. Surely you can see that.
These kind of videos of yours really make me get better at school , in my romanian class we always gotta make these type of analytics and characterizations
Frieren doesnt have the grandest plot but the way it was delivered was captivating. And given that it follows the manga's storyline, the anime made it like a standalone series with how it was animated plus more. It's a cinema to say the least.
Is an interesting take, but the premise in Frieren is good and new, since we are seeing the pov of something not human, shes an elve after all and the author and anime director manage to do very well. We feel emphaty to Frieren but only because we see the trully human emotions on Himmel and Fern. So comparing her to Chise or Dr. Tenma dont have much sense, with Elias then he have a point. But hes correct in that Frieren suffer a little in the plot continuity, it happen in the manga too, even after the "exam arc" there are a lot of chapters that are very "slow" and dont add much to the plot until the next "arc" except to add fashbacks to the OG party to deliver the little cue the author want us to know, yes those little cues will add later and be important, but the way is delivered will get repetitive and boring if overused. Is Frieren that good ? Yes it is, is overhyped? ofc, as any "popular" stuff, just givit time and it will find her true place in history. After all thas the true premise of Frieren, "time".
The story has a theme and there is an ideal way themes should be written, so the comparison is valid. Monster gets closer to that ideal than Frieren.
I kinda get it, its why rent a girlfriend deserve the no.1 spot in myanimelist both in best fanstasy and long running series.
there are a lot of people who don't wach anime but they like frieren , that why this show is popular it has good animation good music, the story is simple and no fanservice ,
i like magus but unfortunally some people don't like character like elias , all the character in frieren are easy to understand and for the beginner in anime its better
How many episodes of Frieren did you actually watch? If you didn't watch the entire first season you would know that there are multiple characters with conflicts internal and external. Not that I don't also love Magus Bride. But Magus is more of a drama/romance than Frieren, which is drama/slice of life comedy
even if this very late, yes we have good characters on the segond part of the season like serie for exemple
The atypical storytelling is what makes it great... the fact that it draws people in even without having things that you'd assume were essential to a story like this.
It's not atypical it's just a character driven story.
This seems to be an analysis based on expectations for what fantasy is supposed to be, while Frieren is a show that deliberately subverts tropes, if it follows them at all. If you're looking for a pattern that all these other shows have followed, then try to do a "who did it better?" comparison involving a show that simply doesn't have those patterns, you're going to fall short. I recommend giving Frieren a re-watch without these expectations. Just watch and take it in, see if you like it or not after that. In fact, I recommend that for any show. I think we've gotten too attached to formulas and ideas of what a story has to contain in order to be considered "good". I think Frieren is popular because it has detached itself from a lot of those same formulas, but still follows enough of our modern sense of pacing and flow to not be too jarring for people who are used to those formulas.
It seems like you're saying "there are no rules for stories." If that's the case, we have nothing to discuss.
I’m sure something else will come along and take the number one spot on MAL. Rinse and repeat. At this point we can say MAL is an indicator of hype, not quality.
FMAB stood for years
I almost don't use MAL, except when I'm trying to figure out how many anime are there this season. Which is a lot. I also usually don't give that much about "score". If it's more than 7, it usually means it might be interesting. Below - depends. There are other places where I get recommendations from.
@@jannegrey593 where do you rate anime then?
@@Klotschie I rarely rate Anime at all. Especially given how I'm personally very easy to - it's not exactly hype, but while I watch something and I like it, I overrate it. Hence IF I rate something I usually wait around a month or two after it ended to rate the series. I wait several hours to rate the episodes after I go over them meticulously and think of possible flaws. Which is a tedious process. So I rated about 10-15 series on MAL.
Recommendations I get from my friends and from places like Gigguk and other YT channels. Of course I'm not going to watch whatever they recommend. I will first check if it is even the genre I might be interested in.
@@spectruux3845 Sure, but things changed in recent years. The hype cycle keeps putting whatever is the most talked about at the top.
Long story short. 99% of people who watch it love it. People can have a different opinion but it still doesnt take away the fact its anime of the year and is iconic now.
popularity =/= quality
@YumesukeSutashika if the quality wasn't good then it wouldn't be popular. People know what they like and 99% of people who watch it like the anime. So factually it is a top tier anime.
@@YumesukeSutashika you are talking about jjk, right?
@@Keyozen That's not how logic works. That's the bandwagon fallacy.
@@moridesu I'm talking about all stories. Popularity is never equal to quality.
I dont think its fair when you try to compare a story about what happens after the main story, with an anime with the main story is not technically finished. but i think i agree with the character analysis
Frieren and Magus Bride are similar and I only compared them in places they were similar. As for Monster, themes are universal and follow the same rules regardless of context.
@@YumesukeSutashika Obstacle in Frieren case is DEATH, wasted time and her attempt to not repeat her mistake. Those kind of obstacle are impossible to overcome.
.
But overall your analysis is flat. I mean - you basicly throw shit for absence "I want to become a hokage" type of goal which is kinda pathetic
@@Алексей545-т6б true
@@YumesukeSutashika Frieren's journey is not that deep, and i agree with it. but the reason she set another adventure is not because of she wants to be someone powerful, or besause of vengance, but because of mourn
@@Алексей545-т6бIf you were more concerened with an honest discussion rather than shielding the story from criticism, your comment wouldn't be this illogical. It wouldn't have random pot shots to make yourself feel better. Death is not an obstacle to her internal conflict.
I watched the entirety of Frieren's first season and I'm looking forward to the next season. Imo it didn't live up to the hype at all (people were calling it a masterpiece), but it was still good. My biggest critique is that none of the characters seem to emote properly, so the character interactions and emotional stakes fall a little flat. Conversely, I gave up on Magus Bride after an episode or 2 and never went back to it. I don't remember what it was that I didn't like about it, but maybe I'll give it another chance.
What do you mean by emote properly?
@@snimon5824 To me, most of the characters have a pretty flat affect in situations where I'd expect to see more overt emotional expression. Stark not so much, but the rest of the characters yeah. I know Frieren herself is supposed to be like that for narratively established reasons, but emotions ran abnormally cool for pretty much the entire cast in my view.
Ok that's weird my comment disappeared.
What was saying was that i personally like how they handle their emotions, its pretty grounded for the most part.
I think its that most anime is over expressive that when Frieren tones it down, it becomes emotionless to some.
@@snimon5824 Thanks for sharing your perspective! (and sorry I'm about to be longwinded about this out for no good reason, but I'm a sucker for over-explaining myself😄) Yeah, it does contrast with the average anime in that regard, but I really do think they went a little too much in the opposite direction and it negatively affected the emotional stakes. In real life (at least in my experience) people's anger, happiness, discomfort, and frustration gets conveyed in the eyebrows, mouth position, intonation, and body language quite easily. Those cues (which are easy enough to translate to animation) felt underserved in Frieren, facial expression and intonation being the biggest problems. Fern is the worst offender imo because we see her miffed and outright angry plenty of times, with Frieren/Stark even calling her scary, but she looks and sounds incredibly tame and subdued. Sense, the examiner with the long hair, looks and sounds straight up emotionless most of the time even if she is expressing concern about something. Himmel also bugged me because of his near constant polite smile and voice. Perhaps he is like that because he's keeping up his image all the time, but it made him feel kinda one-note to me. A lot of the students in the first class mage exam never seemed appropriately ruffled by the situations they were in as well, for example Land (somewhat understandable), Ubel, Wirbel, Richter, Laufen, Edel, and of course Fern. I also would have expected more from the students who failed/passed the exam than what we got. It was a life or death trial that could grant them any spell they wanted if they succeeded, and if they fail they have to put their lives on the line again in three years to have another chance. Those are high stakes, but the level of despair/jubilation at the outcome made it feel like it wasn't really that big of a deal. In real life I can compare it to something like exam results day and/or graduation day for highschoolers; the people who pass or fail show pretty open jubilation and despair about the outcome in my experience, and the stakes are arguably lower. In anime I could compare it to something like the chunin exams from Naruto, where I felt the emotional weight of what was happening was better delivered. Stark is the only character that comes to mind that feels properly fleshed out, and I think old jaded Serie makes sense how she is. But the rest of them "weren't giving what they were supposed to give" to me.
That's because the characters are written more like actual humans instead of over the top anime cliches. Their emotions are extremely clear but not over acted. Except for Stark who's the occasional comic relief when he's not in battle mode. Frieren has multiple different aspects of her personality while Fern is a little more reserved and a bit shy. But Fern and Frieren have very expressive faces when not in battle. They have stoic faces in battle because they are mages and magic requires extreme concentration, so most mages just look focused in combat. Only Ubel, who's a little crazy, and Wirble smile during combat. Wirbel does it for show of confidence. But when characters are just living their lives they are much more expressive.
thinking one story is better than other just cause one has clear progression is just sad
Stories that are similar in terms of quality are excused from the one who is better through comparison, and having clean progress is a strength that makes one work better than the other........but what do you know jjk fan about good stories?
@@3bdul_7amid having clear progression isn’t a necessity, although it can be considered a strength there are many good story’s that are incredible without clear progression. A perfect example would be Ladybird which has no clear progression went on to be one of the most critically acclaimed films and is still praised to this day and it’s due to its clever smart storytelling, character, and scenes. Frieren shares a lot of the same qualities that made LadyBird great.
Also me being a jjk fan doesn’t mean i think the story is good i might just enjoy the characters. You saying that proves nothing good try tho
@@kinjihakari930 JJK characters are very bad, and the writer focuses on the Mid characters, such as Todo, Hakari, Panda, Choso, Yuki, inomaki, Sukuna, and Kashimo, and leaves out the really good characters in writing, such as Kenjaku, Gojo, Megumi, Yuji, Maki, and Kamo, jonpi
@@kinjihakari930 Nice try, Lil Nigga........but clean progress was and will remain better than any absurd method followed by directors who claim to be creative. Also, Lady Bird is an mid quality film, and you could have mentioned other films that are better than it in this regard.
@@3bdul_7amid way to avoid what i said.
Also every character you named in the second list i enjoy, I really don’t care for anyone on the first list except for Hakari and that’s just cause he’s cool.
While Magnus Bride have a more "interesting" premise with a more tangible intention (although you have to get past the first episodes to reach that point) and more dramatic obstacles, it is however not something can relate to. Like how many people can relate with Chise who believe she only deserved to die at the beginning of the show. Who can relate with Elias a mystical creature who want to learn human emotions. It's very hard to relate to them and hence hard to empathize with them when they faces the said obstacles.
Meanwhile, Frieren doesn't have a dramatic or, you could even say, an engaging premise, it's just the story about a girl who regrets not spending enough time with people you loved. It's easy to relate with, especially in this day and age where people spend so much time looking at screens. The story doesn't have any real obstacle, but it doesn't have too. Because the story here is used to convey the message of the show: treasure the mundanes days with your loved ones before it's too late.
i get your point, but a good message dosen't mean good story, we have a ton of story who can gives the same message with a more engaging story, and even if he dosen't have too be engaging , i fell that he missing something and is not enough to not make me want skip some moments or even drop the series (i just watched entirely too have the right too talk)
hoppfully i expres myself well :/
Being relatable is subjective, so that alone doesn't make it worth the hype.
It's okay for it to be mid, most things are mid.
@@encouraginglyauthentic43 What your point? I didn't claimed it was worth the hype because it was relatable 🙄
@@nobrainnogame4320 Then why did you say it like it mattered?
@@encouraginglyauthentic43 It matter in the context of a discussion when one try to argue that the better story need tangible and grandiose intention.
Yup
That is your opinion - and ok. I do feel like people judging whole Anime based on couple initial episodes is a bit unfair though. That is my only gripe with this video. And yes Magus Bride is very underrated.
Yup agree
another things is that this whole emotional theme that time is valuable and want t know friends more.is only in first few episodes.
its first some episodes were only good since it actually had the important conflicts of frieren.
in later series and mind you the series is freaking 28 episodes.most of it is just unimportant mudane and boring things.
its definetly the other name for overrated.
nah
My general problem with freiren this also includes the manga is how its main selling point(Teaching Freiren how to value time and human relationships) and its scenarios(What the Gang does) isn't connected in a way that you would recognize to connect x scene to x lesson. Which makes the show or story telling forgettable. Especially in the manga I asked a bunch of people what could they recall on what the gang did in between the Mage exams and El Dorado heck even before the mage exams, most of us couldn't even chronologically name much of what has transpired in those instances and only rember major fighting arcs. I even forgot what happened in ghe 1sy half of the mage exams.
While the Anime did a better job, the same problem still exist. In months time I would probably forget 80% what has transpired in freiren. unironically El Dorado is a way better arc, themes Which are the most compelling in the series and character writing compared to the majority of Freirens screen time in the series.
U wont get popular by just being controversial brother
neh magus bride is just full metal alchemist with a touch of love story lol
How is Magus Bride FMA?
@@YumesukeSutashika lol you don't know the famous scene in FMAB? you're a scrub
It is not
You completely missed what the story is about, it's not about valuing time at all it's about valuing people and relationships, it's about learning from your mistakes and making changes, bro in monster learns nothing in the end even after realizing he made a mistake he's just trying to justify that he was right all along, Frieren is about change and having the ability to do so.
Sometimes there aren't tangible markers of achievement except the behaviors of those around you, the lives you have affected and the memories you make.
You're stuck in the thinking that storytelling requires a goal and conflict, to a degree I feel as though it does require challenges and she has faced those, she is only just realizing and actioning the changes she should have made with Himmel and the heroes party with Fern and Stark while facing new challenges that parallel those of the past.
My proof that good storytelling doesn't require a goal or at least an outwardly broadcast one e.g. Kill the demon King is open world video games, the popularity of open world games comes from the freedom to what you want and write your own stories, your end goal is your own.
Frierens journey is an internal one the goal is her own as are the goals of every other character in the show, the outward journey is a byproduct of that and is only important in the fact that it's going to help her internal journey of growth.
There are other themes like the value of teamwork, doing things for others selflessly, helping those in need, life after death, the journey is as important as the destination, being present in the moment etc... There are way more too and the supposedly "mundane" things she does are about those things.
I also don't get the hate for it being popular and saying because it's popular it's not great storytelling, it's one of the best written pieces of fantasy media of any kind to come out in the last 30 years, is a modern classic and in my top 5 anime all time after watching well over 1000 anime, because I take it for what it is, not what it isn't and I'm able to change my view on things as time progresses.
I understand your point of view, but that doesn't justify anything. Yes, "Frieren" is about Frieren learning to understand others better, to take advantage of them before they leave, etc. Frieren stays true to herself and does it in a simple and effective way, there's no debate about that.
The problem is that on paper it's good, but for an anime of 25 minutes per episode in a series of 28 episodes, it's much less so. There are a lot of shows that talk about personal growth and enjoying those close to you, and that do it while maintaining a certain level of suspense. But for “Frieren,” there are very few ways to engage with the world where she does her little things, or where Himmel marked his name forever. I also find it hard to say to myself "frankly, Himmel was really a good guy, it's a shame that Frieren knew him so poorly."
A good anime is not just a message, but a whole. A good message doesn't necessarily mean a good story, it's only part of the whole. “Frieren” is a series that focuses more on social interactions, okay, but you might as well watch something else that does more or less the same thing.
If you really liked "Frieren", ok, fair enough, but don't sit around calling "Frieren" "the best fantasy manga" while denigrating the rest just because its message touched you more than any other. "Frieren" is a decent story that touches on some worthy themes, but as an anime it doesn't come across for me and I wonder why people don't at least want to understand us.
I hope I expressed myself well.
@@laskouide_newragingbulls oh that's just one aspect that makes the writing good, I was just making a point that the journey is the point and it's as much an internal one as it is an external one. The characters, the world building, the demons, the magic system, the dynamics of each class, the relationships, how everything is interconnected, how the actions of one character can affect more than just that character and the messages and lessons are all great.
That's before even mentioning the movie level production quality from the animation, cinematography, direction, effects work, art, sound, voice acting, music etc... it is one of the best pieces of fantasy in any medium to me whether you agree with that is up to you, I get your perspective but I don't agree with it Frieren has so many layers to it and to boil it down to one or two things tells me that person didn't pay attention to all the details and I'm OK with that kind of person not liking the same things I do, I just like pointing out how great it is 🤣
@@Scyon13 yeah,I had to admit that the animation is woth of a number 1,and I'm a big fan of character design too (I had a sense pfp ❤️)
What's also good to note is that even without a clear conflict or tangible obstacles, a story can still compensate by AT THE VERY LEAST having interesting dialogue and interactions between characters.
The character dynamics aren't interesting at all, both Frerein's old party and her new one. They feel so bland and 2 dimensional even when they do try to show their back stories and motivations. So if a story can't compel you through action sequences or drama, then surely its dialogue and interactions would, right? That's the BARE MINIMUM and Frerein couldn't even accomplish that.
It's honestly impressive how when I already got to more than half of the episodes I still didn't care about a single character, which is such a waste cuz I liked their designs. Goes to show how only having good looking characters and good animation is enough to make weebs consider it a masterpiece.
Just wondering what do you consider interesting dialogue and interesting character interactions?
@@Bjjboxing one that's generally fun or compelling. If the type of interaction where the characters bring out the best and most entertaining parts of their personalities to the fullest doesn't fit the tone (so let's say it's supposed to be a bit more dark or melancholic perhaps, therefore 'fun' isn't fitting), then have it be thought provoking, while still making the characters be likeable in a fun or entertaining way (instead of 'just because it's melancholic, everyone acts sad and damp all the time). They tried that but they failed imo. You can disagree with that, that's fine, but that's how I felt.
Especifically the dynamic between Frieren, Fern and Stark. Their personalities were too close from each other (especially Frieren and Fern) the three of them are just different shades of unenthusiastic with one them just occasionally exhibiting an ever so slightly different behaviour for a little bit of time before they eventually turn back into being somewhat unenthusiastic. Their personalities are only different by a little bit which is little enough to make their group dynamic feel redundant.
Long story short, just make the characters have different enough personalities that their behavior and reactions to situations differ. That's really all it is.
@@CaptainPowow I don't understand what you mean by fun or compelling. I don't know what you mean by thought provoking. I don't know what you mean by likeable. How did they fail? You are just using a bunch of buzzwords. Someone can just say the opposite of what you said
Their personalities are different I don't understand your point on that. The only trait Fern and Frieren really share is that they are socially awkward but that's shown in different ways. Fern is easily bothered and moody. Frieren is not. Frieren is sometimes lazy(sleeps late) and spends without thinking. Fern does the opposite. These are things that are handled in several episodes(I don't know how you missed that). Stark is different from the two. He acts like a coward but is brave and shown to get along a lot with a variety of people(every village he visits a bunch of people like him). If anything Stark and Frieren are more similar since they both act lazy only for Fern to scold them(but their are clear differences and their dynamic with Fern is completely different). Stark is almost a love interest to Fern. Frieren is like a mom or big sister to Fern
@@Bjjboxing Like I said, different shades. Not exactly the same but still not different enough to make the interactions all that entertaining. I know that the differences are there I just think the differences are so miniscule at least in my eyes and also at least in comparison to different group dynamics.
Keep in my mind, that ISN'T really a big problem unless your story doesn't have enough action/drama/conflict to compensate. Due to the absence of those elements, to keep the story interesting you'll have to rely solely on those character interactions and dynamics, and the fact of the matter is- their interactions just aren't interesting ENOUGH. I get it if you still think they were interesting, I suppose that makes this more subjective criticism than anything, but as someone who generally likes stoic characters, I felt this show just had too much of them.
@@CaptainPowow I hard disagree. You can't say it is small when it is literally shown to be different in many areas and even the opposite in some(and the show uses the differences in several episodes ie the staff)
I don't know what you mean by interesting enough.
There's a difference between subjective and just inaccurate. You are on the latter end. They are not even stoic characters. Frieren cries in the first few episodes and smiles to herself about changing other people several times. Stark whines a bunch. Fern is moody like every other episode. Stoic doesn't mean "I have a serious face while fighting". But have a good one tho. I am trying to see if people have really good arguments as why Frieren is bad
Honestly it kinda sucks. Only simps and whiteknights like it ngl
you must have a lot problem dont you?
Bro is speaking nothing 🗣️🔇
Bro your take is worser than Onlyfans girls thought 😅
It's also extremely boring and the characters are super one dimensional
you must be have alot problem dont you ?
My guy, april fools was 4 days ago
@@alifanggarda777 what
@@Nsquare_01 i wasn't joking
The characters suck and the show is overall boring
@@mysmallnoman you do you my guy. Enjoy your shounen taste in peace ✌️
🗑️anime