Micro Pelton Turbine
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.พ. 2021
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I love your channel and I’m here for air powered quad.
Collab?
Air powered 🚗 🚘
Destin!
@@bob_the_builder2815 I could get behind that!
Hey Laminar Flow 👋👋
I grew up with "Airhogs", my kid will grow up with "Tom Stanton Toys"
Haha
That’s actually a good idea for a toy company, I could see some of his ideas becoming actual products.
The only flying things I had were Fly Wheels and radio control helicopters.
Been getting in to high performance RC motor gliders, it makes me want to source an airhog powerplant and build one with that.
I crashed my air hogs helicopter into a wall and it is now...... inactive
dude you are so good at explaining things
kinda strange finding you in this comment section.
Agreed
Bet that turbine would be great at mincing tomatoes! Bet Integza could ship you off a few of those....though it may be hard for him to part with them.
Hello plasma channel
I agree
So what's the next move 🤔 a plasma thruster or something..?
I want someone to look at me like Tom looks at a bottle full of .... air.
You need to have the same size and shape as the bottle... then maybe Tom will look at you that way
Get a girlfriend maybe she will get you spinning with a little blow?
Get your sex changed to "bottle"
full of energy and re fillable
and simple and expendable
"You have so much potential"
Next video: Air powered air compresser
That's meta
That's just an APU of a jet engine
Perpetual air compresser 😂
Check out the Useless Duck Company video from 6 or 8 years ago (been a while)
If you took lower pressure air and compress it to higher pressure with less total energy, it might have some use.
There is something about the slow motion footage of the water turbine at 1:56 that just screams STAGE 2. All that exhausted energy looks like it could be harnessed on another lower turbine rotating in the opposite direction. I always enjoy your videos. They make me think.
Adding a stator in combination with opposite direction rotor should greatly improve the final outcome. Ten years at G.E. making fuel controls tells me you're closer to a breakthrough than you realize.
@@scottdemoor49 Naturally at some point in this process, the fuel, be it water or air, will loose its ability to produce power, but that immediate discharge from the cup is very focused and a lot of energy just waiting to be harnessed. I'm not a turbine guy, but I think its worth exploring if it doesn't add too much weight and defeat the application parameters.
The whole point was to make it shoot out of the cup at zero velocity so a second rotor would not do anything if it's set up properly
@@ThaJay Anything that can still shoot out of anything else still has velocity, or it would just fall to the earth. I think the point is to utilize the flow to its best potential, not waste 45% of it.
@@Shop-Tech Aren't you forgetting the rotational speed of the rotor itself? Standing next to the rotor the water seems to fall down although it shoots out pretty fast from the rotors perspective.
7:25 For why the turbine-propeller contraption is more efficient than just spitting out the air, it is the same stuff as why turbofan engines with large fans in front is more efficient than turbojet with afterburner. The amount of force (thrust) produced is affected by 2 major factors, speed , and mass of air moved. By spitting out the air out of the nozzle, we get air on very high speed, but only a small amount of air is being ejected. However, as long as the turbine contraption converts energy good enough that it could push way more air down with slower speed that higher force can be achieved and thus more efficient.
Are these lyrics for a new song?
@@tausiftaha12 if you want to
Yay! long story short surface area.
I've been told size doesn't matter..
Yup it'll be more efficient until the speed and aerodynamics of the propeller (turbulence etc) get in the way of achieving really high speeds for our theoretical aircraft. Is why we don't have supersonic prop planes, and also why we don't often use small jet engines to go slower (jet = less efficiency = more fuel needed = need a bigger, heavier plane to carry that fuel = it's now fast enough but definitely need to fly at a higher altitude to reduce wind resistance a bit, prop planes lose torque and are generally slow enough to be better off at lower altitudes)
Casually whacking a "Telsa turbine interrupting integza"
Who was that?
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 integza
@@thechumpsbeendumped.7797 integza, a great TH-camr that hates tomatoes
@@thijslubberts8307 an incredible description
Thanks, I didn’t recognise him so looked him up only to find I’m already a subscriber 🤷🏽♂️
I’m watching his 3D printed (Lily Impeller) vid now.
Integza: Tesla Turbine!
Tom: *bop*
bop
This was hilarious..🤣
On an unrelated note, people should check out Bop. A producer/artist with interesting music. Hope it to be a welcome distraction.
I think I laughed at this a bit harder than I should.
Bonk
0:42 Integza! ~ cool bottle thwapping sound effect btw lol
most people see an empty bottle
optimists see a bottle of air
tom stanton sees an engine powerful enough to power a plane
It is amazing what a powerful mind can do with everyday items. 👍
I think Mr. Stanton knows that the process of compressing air is only 10% efficient and as such a poor choice for fuel.
The Integza Joke is so much more hilarious with his comment
No it's not
Any engineering youtuber exists:
Kiwi Co:
Helo
Hello*
well at least it's very educational
I've always admired the insane efficiency of this turbine, what a beautiful piece of engineering.
Tom your channel is so awesome, I love how you explain things for more simple minded folks like myself. You'd be an amazing teacher. Keep it up mate love it!!
Integza: Tesla Turbine!
Tom: B O N K
The reason the turbine is more efficient is the power proportional to S*V³ while force to S*V². With the same power it's more force efficient to use a higher surface with smaller velocity. The greater surface (S) of the prop allows to reach a point where the propulsive air velocity (V) is just a bit higher than the "plane" velocity (here 0). To produce static thrust it's in theory possible to get an infinite force to watt ratio (force isn't energy) with an infinite propeller diameter. But the force to weight ratio would be awfull and impossible to run a plane because the max propulsive velocity would be near 0.
Soo interesting (as always), thanks a lot! 100% pure engineering satisfaction! Keep going :D
Favorite channel for 2 engineers
What you said: technical stuff
What I understood: hehe plane go vrom vroom.
i like ru fuuny words macic man
Vous ici !
I like your funny words science man
I think you are right. That's why a helicopter rotor is much bigger than a propeller.
Your videos really are amazing. I love the way you combinde Engineering and Physics while still kepping things simple :)
you know the content is incredible when all the big names of youtube are getting in line to drop a complement.
Air powered helicopter: beating air into submission with air.
Or better yet, air powered air compressor.
*"I used the air to beat the air"*
The thing with air is that it has to have some kinetic energy left, because it has to push other air out of the way to exit the turbine (Betz limit). Water would do the same if there wasn't a downstream drain under a dam.
You're right, I guess a water Pelton turbine would not work so well if it were itself under water. (still better than an underwater air turbine, the bubbles from the nozzle won't even reach it)
Nice info, thanks!
@@corentinoger Even if we placed the nozzle for the air under the turbine?
Perhaps a mild vacuum would improve efficiency?
The Betz limit is also the reason why the ducted fan/turbine works better, as the less turbulent airflow at the blade allows more energy to be transferred to the mechanism and not be wasted into heat.
I love how you dive deep into one topic (like air-powered vehicles) and keep going on that topic until you have created what you think is the best possible mechanism.
Thanks for another great video,
- Eli Tennant
excellent! great explanation of the pelton wheel. I often forget that air is a fluid too, just a lot less dense than water.
Hello good Sir! Do you have a moment to talk about our lord and saviour NikolaTesla and his miraculous turbine?
Caralho
0:43 *bonk*
I read this comment in italic.
I volunteer to be your designated tomato killer
I love the way they taste but in your honor i shall vanquish them
Oh, hi there tomato man! I wish you a good luck with that. :-)
7:20 By driving the propeller instead of using the nozzle directly, you're moving a larger mass of air at a lower velocity to get your impulse. Since kinetic energy goes with velocity squared, while momentum goes linearly with velocity, this gives you a greater total momentum in your reaction mass for the same kinetic energy, and thus you get more thrust.
And not to mention that he can get twice the force with the turbine than by just pushing due to the 180 degree change in flow direction in the turbine compared to just 90 degree effective change when the nozzle is used directly.
Yeah! with a propeller It’s a higher bypass engine.
You would have to explain that to me. Your impuls or momentum also goes squared with velocity.
I=(V^2)*roh*A=V*Q
Q being the massflow= V*roh*A
A being the active surface area
V being velocity
I being impuls or momentum
roh being the density of the working fluid (air)
I think that the magic trick is the ratio between the coefficient of drag and the coeficient of lift of the propeller.
Everything else should not contribute to higher efficiency and higher thrust. The total impuls of the compressed air is basically getting transformed from a high power low force, to a high force low power configuration.
The max rpm of the prop should thereby limit the max velocity of the vehicle.
Why is unclear to me, as turbinejet and rocket aircraft are only limited by there thrust wich is impulse, wich in tern should also applie here, but would make no sense anymore if it could.
Never mind, took me about 2 minutes to find out, that the propeller pitch limits the rpm. To high of a pitch angle and your needed torque to turn the prop is to high, to low of a pitch angle and your propeller will overspeed or simple induce to much drag at higher speeds.
You could also explain it with force vectors. As the pitch increases, so does the angle of the lift force vector compared to the normal vector parallel to the prop shaft. This in turn decreases the part of the velocity vector parallel to the normal vector, thereby reducing total thrust.
came to read the comments for this one :D
I do so enjoy observing the engineers mind at work. inspiration for not only my own works, but for the next gen of makers and such, please continue the good works and the having a much fun doing it!
what a brilliant walkthrough of the principles
*casually _bonks_ integza away
XD
those animations are game changing, congrats
I also think that the animation are fantastic.
Does anybody know how this was made? Software?
I also think that the animation are fantastic.
Does anybody know how this was made? Software?
@@rymannphilippe basic Blender can do this kind of things, without any addons.
I used Blender fluid simulations
@@TomStantonEngineering um this is weird to ask but are you irish???
Hey Tom, I just wanted to say, every time I see a new video by you I get soo excited! Thanks for all the great content my friend! :)
@tom stanton, u hv a nice house especially the lawn n surrounding area... Played it over n over whenever u r around n outside the house, its just beautiful...
Bonking Integza for discovering Mr. Stanton's secret French origins.
Another great enjoyable project
HON HON HON BAGUETTE LMAO
XD
Love the Integza cameo at the beginning 😂 hella funny with the sound of the empty bottle smacking him away. 😂
I had a pelton turbine obsession for a few weeks last year and im so glad this was recommended
Genius design for the turbine! Love it!
I didn’t know that there was a term for the spoon in the sink when I turn the faucet on and water is redirected all over my kitchen.
Shoot the spoon in your sink with a high-speed camera and post it in a video on TH-cam.
teacher: why are you laughing
my brain: pelton spoon
Integza: tesla turbine
Tom: and I took that personally
Jordan: that's when it became personal
It was at that moment that integza new, he f*cked up
keep building/inventing! love your creative approach and explanations!
Fun fact: the turbine wheel you've created is called an "impulse turbine" and the devices that direct the flow into a gas turbine IRL are called "nozzles" even if they don't look quite as literal as what you've got going on here. If you want to increase efficiency and/or decrease mass, make the turbine inlets only as wide as or a little wider than the outlet of your nozzle.
Your nozzle only is not designed to extract all the potential energy stored in the pressure. In order to improve its thrust you might have to design a convergent-divergent nozzle made to accelerate the flow as much as possible for the ambiant pressure (an adapted nozzle)
At 4 bars of pressure you are effectively in the range of pressure ratio where you can have supersonic flow exiting a carefully designed Con-Di nozzle.
In order to design your nozzle you might have to explore different throat areas as a trade-off between max thrust and how long it lasts. then you can go on calculating the adapted exit area using some isentropic compressible flow relations.
If you wanna go all out you'll also need to find the optimal nozzle shape which is a whole other story but described in some compressible flow books.
That's a good idea, and i definitely think tom should try it out! However, you still wouldn't get as much thrust out of the jet nozzle as you get out of the propeller. A jet is most efficient when the exhaust velocity is relatively close to the speed of the surrounding air. That's why fighter jets use afterburning low-bypass engines with high exhaust velocity to go fast, airliners use high-bypass engines with high mass flow at relatively lower speed, and even slower planes use turboprops.
This channel is underrated. Awesome content Tom.
Underrated, but I really appreciate that it's growing and how it's growing
nice work , love your data analysis
Thanks Tom, as always, well done and very informative!
Tom needs to come up with a more efficient and elegant version of the AirHogs, call it the AirGazelle
That would be great! 💯
I'd say the reason for the nozzles low efficiency was the fact that the equation for kinetic energy states that kinetic energy is proportional to velocity squared. So using a large prop to accelerate much air a little gives higher thrust then accelerating a little air a lot
Pretty sure that is it. Force is mass flow rate multiplied by velocity change, power is mass flow rate multiplied by velocity squared. If you quadruple the flow rate, then with the same power you'd get half the velocity, which works out to double the force.
Which is basically the same conclusion that the Wrights came to when selecting the design for the Flyer's props. The went with two, slower spinning props instead of one fast one for that exact reason.
also why rockets have bell nozzles
@@luelou8464 great explanation!
For those wanting to see the relationship:
F = ma = mv/t
P = Fv = mv^2/t
v = sqrt(Pt/m)
Showing that velocity has an inverse relationship to flow rate. Aka as mass per time increases, velocity decreases.
@@GigsVT Actually no. Bell nozzles are there to collimate the plasma. In the converging section, the particles are moving rapidly in random directions. (High pressure & High heat.) The expanding section the plasma is forced to expand backward, exchanging pressure/heat for velocity. In a perfectly calibrated bell, the exhaust leaves at the same pressure as the atmosphere. If it's under-expanded, it will expand outward in all directions and that energy is lost.
Great explanation, I was just looking at this turbine in another video. I really enjoyed the video, cheers.
Fantastic. Great work. Thank you for sharing!
I love the relationship between Tom and Integza 😂
They have very similar channels but quite different personalities.
The change from pelton to your own air turbine was just brilliant! What a difference.
The idea is not new, it is called axial turbine.
I just want to give you a thanks 😊 ounce I found out about your TH-cam channel your videos encouraged me to become an engineer for toys (remote controls specifically) so thank you so much
Tom, the turbine you ended up with is a simplified version of the "impulse" steam turbines from the early 20th century. For example, one such turbine was used for engine 3 on the Titanic. They are known for having a high power to weight ratio, though they are less efficient than turbines that use expansion.
Love you channel!
hmmm... is it less efficient because the air has a 'venturi' effect where it wastes energy by accelerating air that's on either side of the nozzle? If that's the case, a dutch on the input to the turbine could be helpful.
No it's the same reason that commercial airplane engines get better. Idk but something about more mass means more efficient
Maybe its to do with impedance matching?
Honestly I thought it had something to do with the air pushing directly against something. I am not educated on this, I'm just an IT field tech, so this is purely guessing. But my thought is that the jet of air alone is only acting on the nozzle. The energy is lost rather quickly into the surrounding area and only transfers energy to the nozzle as it exits. If you put something in the way of the escaping air now it has to transfer its energy to the object in front of the nozzle too. I bet a simple flat bladed wheel will still produce greater thrust than the nozzle could do on its own.
I think almost all of the thrust is lost on the nozzle due to the shape of the nozzle. Not made for harnessing the thrust created, just an inefficient choke.
Well I think that a de laval nozzle would beat everything
Our Engine Legend is Back 😎
Hey Tom, I love your videos! I used to want to be an aeronautical engineer but the school was too hard for me and I found my passion elsewhere. Still, watching your videos fills me with joy at getting to see the engineering process. I would love to see another 3D printed airplane video. Something I've been thinking about is using a 3D printer to print parts that are ideal for printing (structurally) like the internal frame of an aircraft, but not the skin. This would help a lot with the weight and allow you to make quite magnificent models that require just a little extra work to get flying compared to a fully 3D-printed vehicle. Just some food for thought... I can't wait to see what you have for us next! Thank you so much!
Most interesting, concise and to the point, almost too brief, well done.
Great vid as always Tom. It is very interesting on how you could make so much thrust from such a simple mechanism👍
That whack of Integza was so smooth
I am not sure what he was trying to say by it but it was funny. 😄
Resin printers are indeed awesome. Cool that you designed your own turbine that performed so much better :D
You just reminded me of my Airhog I loved playing with when I was in grade school. Ahh pneumatic piston engines.
it's hard to overstate just how underrated of a channel you are.
True. I am sure if he does his research and keeps putting out great videos like this one of them will break out.
I wonder how the second design (enclosed blades) would perform with a water stream 🤔
That would be an interesting test to add to the next video.
Tom does the best ad placement. It was actually relevant to the content.
What I see in this gentleman's videos is the clear and present difference between _making_ and _engineering._
You're finally back! Glad to have you back buddy. Have been waiting patiently for a while now.
Oddly enough this reminds me of a video a while back from a youtuber called Stratzenblitz, in a game called KSP he built a flying aircraft carrier, and it only had 12 jet engines for thrust which was magnitudes lower than required to lift its runway sized bulk off the ground, but since he directed the jet engine exhausts at these absolutely massive turbine rotors made from dozens of wing surfaces, the jet exhaust made the giant rotors spin, and it could lift its couple hundred tons and oniboard aircrafts off the ground. So I believe the propeller is more efficient than the direct nozzle since the nozzle functions up to a high velocity whereas the propeller has a very low maximum airspeed. It can be thought of as gear ratios in a car as well, a car can move more weight in a lower gear at the cost of a low top speed.
KSP can be tricked into breaking conservation of momentum. The thing you're describing sounds like it's possible (using engines to spin a big rotor producing more thrust than using the same engines as jets) but just because it's possible in KSP doesn't mean it's possible in real life. There's also a glitch where you move fuel from one end of a spinning space station to the other and it creates momentum out of nowhere because the fluid dynamic model isn't detailed enough.
@@PKMartin I get what you're staying, and it makes sense since in KSP the force exerted on a part due to the engine exhaust is very static in nature only varying with throttle output (there is no kinetic energy loss from gas billowing out the clearly open sides), but the theory behind it is somewhat sound. Its not conservation of momentum being broken in this case since the jet engines at full throttle which can fly reliably over Mach 2 (686m/s) are exerting force on the turbines which can propel the huge helicarrier at maybe 40m/s through the air if I'm being generous and gravity is disabled, so the thrust is all in the direction of motion. Its trading off airspeed for more static thrust, similar to how jet engines that are very high bypass (huge fan diameter) are used in subsonic heavy aircraft whereas low bypass are used in supersonic aircraft.
Its all about the airspeed in the end. High lift coefficient and low airspeed, or low lift coefficient and high airspeed? That's the tradeoff between jets and large jet-powered rotor blades.
On another note, its always really fun to break KSP's physics engines for fun and profit lol, the beautiful wonderful Kraken Drive XD
@@Avetho
definitely my favorite BS propulsion device in KSP was the Wing lift exploit - a ball of blades that flails around to reach nigh infinite Velocity without any actual propulsion of its own.
👌😂🤣
@@taiiat0 Oh gosh that thing was amazing, its like string theory made manifest on a macro scale, if I recall it stretches out on the launchpad and when it's sufficiently slinkied downwards it wobbles like some ungodly eldritch abomination and explodes itself so hard the root part goes flying at Mach 500 or something insane XD
Good work, and well explained. Thanks, Tom.
I think the reason why the turbine has more thrust than just the nozzle is due to the fact that the turbine powers a propeller. The propeller moves more overall air than just the nozzle. Basically it's the same reason why turbofans, especially the high bypass turbofans, are more efficient than turbojets.
circumference ... and gear ratio ... both play with the output ..
You're personal motivation / drive is incredible to me.
很好的視頻。
7:13 Regarding the nozzle only having .34 newtons of thrust on it's own, I'm curious to what degree an engine bell could increase that.
By exactly 0% as long as the inner diameter is too large to reach supersonic velocities. Even then, a conical nozzle can reach up to 95% efficiency. Bell nozzles are only really needed in rockets, as they can be built shorter than other geometries for the same expansion ratio
@@fg8557 so what if he got supersonic how much can that benefit?
Since the pressure ratio is at least initially high enough for flow to be choked, exhaust velocity then can be taken to be equal to the speed of sound, or ~340 m/s. Assuming the 6.9 bar is gauge pressure, and expansion is to 1 bar of pressure, with a starting temperature of 293 K an ideal nozzle would be able to get ~520 m/s of exhaust velocity, or about a 50% improvement. However, the nozzle would drop off efficiency fast, especially as a constant expansion ratio nozzle would either have to seriously underexpand the flow at the beginning, or end up severely overexpanding it at the end as pressure drops, and both are bad for efficiency.
@@fg8557 aero spike would probably work better than just a nozzle and bell.
Brill vid, explained simply enough that I actually understand all of it! Thanks 👍🏻
Great experimentation! Thank goodness for 3D printing.
Why we have 3 blades in turbines and two blades in Quadcopter and 30+ blades in laptop cpu cooling fan,which gives the best lift please test coz I dont have a 3d printer.
I love your teaching 😍
If you are a fan of fans you'll like Major Hardware's Fan blade showdown, he tests user submission fan blades. Some pretty interesting designs.
More blades = trading lower efficiency for higher thrust, if I'm not mistaken.
A Collab with integza would be brilliant, no idea what you guys would make tho
That is a very, _VERY_ scary thought!
That Kiwi co project at the end looked sick. Wouldve loved to play with that as a kid
Excellent work man 0_0
I never really expect much from your air powered projects but damn did this one have progression.
Hey Tom! It's always enlighting to watch your videos. Loved this one specially.
I believe the efficiency of your air turbine can be still increased. What of the turbine and the feeding nozzle is placed within an casing, to avoid the loss of air pressure when the air hits the propeller. And with an opening behind the air can exit from the turbine assembly.
Oooh, look at you with the fluid dynamics 😂
This is anti clickbait, the title and thumbnail are kinda boring but the video is soo fascinating and well made. Great job
Another wonderful demo of how many mechanical problems can be boiled down to impedance matching.
Have you considered a centrifugal turbine design like in a turbocharger?
I was also thinking about that during this video.
You can improve your turbine by change the turbine configuration. Check for centrifugal turbine and blade design (they are in function of air flow angle and speed). You might also want a stator stage before rotors.
Nice work Tom!
The bottle hitting integza made SUCH a satisfying sound
I love the part when you smack Integza
Just imagine what could achieved with a 300bar carbon paintball tank
With a shit ton of dry ice in it.
@@honkhonk8009 beter off then with liquid co2
That would be really heavy. I think 2 L bottles are about ideal for power to weight ratio. a carbon tank would definitely hold enough air to last a lot longer, though.
@@Timestamp_Guy hence "carbon tank"
0,25L carbon tankt weights 280grams and contains 75 liter of air
2 liter pet weights 60 grams and only contains 8 liters of air at 4 bar.
Weight is increased by a factor of 5 however the amount of energy stored is increased by a factor of 10.
Your videos are amazing, really inspiring to try to invent stuff yourself !
Keep up the good work, Tom!!
That Integza moment killed me LOL
When you're washing dishes and rinse off a spoon. 1:38
I build small engines as a hobby and I use compressed air to operate them. I have found using a caged small brass spur gear is quite effective with a tiny outlet and high-pressure air running a worm gear against a helically-cut down-gear.
Thats so amazing, i love your tech!
Broke: pelton turbine
Woke: spinny spoony
Tom: creates turbines from pressurised bottles
Me: cant get a small amount of pressure in the bottle
Sometimes it is the simple things that are the hardest to accomplish. 🤔
Tom: has thousands of coins worth of stuff laying around, some of them used only for one purpose :D 💁♂️
Awesome work, look forward to the air powered heli!
I'm blown away. I never in a million years thought any more thrust could be made than just the air nozzle itself. Seems efficiency would go down. This is some game changing content.
Angular momentum helps as well, but by proposal is the air having the same buoyancy when not compressed as surrounding air means force has to be used to displace air it's traveling through. The turbine does not experience this as much because it's not traveling as far and you could add a cone around nozzle such that the air that's deflected goes around it creating vacuum at novel.
I would suggest a gas that is less buoyant than air and camering turbine where air goes downward then extending blade such that the air escapes when turbine moves up hill.
Also the diffusion of air outwards from nozel exerts energy outward that's wasted from not going downward
"You need to take into consideration the pressure as it flows around the turbine"
AgentJayZ has entered the chat
4:55 - When you say close to stationary, do you mean zero velocity relative to the rotation of the turbine or stationary as shown in the "Much less wasted energy" example? I would think that completely stationary would still mean that it has a small amount of velocity remaining that is equivalent to the speed of the turbine wheel. Stationary relative to the turbine wheel would mean that all of the energy has been captured. I could be wrong though.
You could also make pulsed "valve" or distributor system that delivers the pressurre only at the best time. Thanks for sharing! Very clear explanations here.
these videos are pure gold, keep it up=)