fs overcrooked needs to be taken seriously so the REAL fs nosegrind on rails becomes legit. Garret giner did fs nosegrind and fs overcrooked on flatbar, it's real
backside crooked grind (heelside lock) frontside crooked grind (toeside lock) backside overcrook (toeside lock) frontside overcrook (heelside lock) its weird to me that people would claim it doesn't exist. it seems like it follows all the same rules that categorize other tricks. if its a little sideways and you had to get your back foot over the obstacle, call it an overcrook. if its pointing straight, call it a nosegrind, i say.
Everyone I've ever skated with considered it a trick. It's simply giving a name to a grind with a specific board/truck position on the rail. Just the same as every other grind. People be weird nowadays. 😂
Regardless if it's "officially" right or wrong, personally for me an overcrook will always be an overcrook whether it's frontside or not. My logic being, we'd never call a salad grind or a Suski a 5-0, would we?
Counterpoint: Suskis only count backside and salads only count frontside. Following that logic overcrooks should only be backside cuz it’s also a “backwards facing” grind. I don’t think it really matters and people will still say fs salad and bs suski and bs overcrook just to make sure you know it was the cooler looking and “more legit” version
@@possiblythatguy2304in my opinion, fs Suskis exist even less than fs nosegrinds. Much like nosegrinds, not only is it way easier to do a fs 5-0 crooked like that, but the trick is named after a real person who never did them frontside. If someone says fs overcrook, I'm not gonna correct them. But fs Suski is just stupid.
I agree. I do this trick on flat bars. When I nose grind there is zero pinch, it is more like a nose manual where I grind. Front side over krooks absolutely agree. I think the opening clip was an over krook too man
IMO there absolutely is such a thing as FS overcrooks. The Elijah clip is so obviously crooked. If you took a snapshot half way through the grind and asked someone that never saw it what it was I bet most would say it's a crooked grind. The only reason there's no FS overcrooks is because skateboarding is petty and has a bunch of unwritten stupid "rules" mostly so "real" skaters (the ones in the right clique) can feel superior. Think of it this way, if bs overcrooks are an actual trick, then fs overcrooks have to be an actual trick. It just makes sense.
Tricks are named by the first skaters to do them. In the early 80s what you just described is how they PURPOSEFULLY did what they named fs nose grinds because angling it aloud them to pop back into the pool. LOOK IT UP GUYS, ALL EARLY FS NOSEGRINDS ARE LIKE THIS. Also I agree overcrook is the perfect name but there is one problem, they invented this harder version in the early 80s a decade before the crook would be invented so they would have literally needed a Time Machine to name this an overcrook.
One thing I never hear brought up in this argument is that nosegrinds were invented before crooked grinds. And since the easier way to do fs nosegrinds on a round rail is to do them with your truck hanging over, people most likely did fs nosegrinds like this before crooked grinds were invented. So at the time, those would have just been called nosegrinds, since that's all that existed.
The way I see it, a nosegrind is a nose manual where the front truck is grinding. A crook is a combination of a nosegrind and noseslide, much like a Smith grind is a combination of a 5-0 and lipslide
It's an overkrook dude. The whole front nose grind is an old squabble from vert skaters bc front nosegrinds on vert are almost always crooked. The same with calling a cab a full cab. It's all old vert jargon they invented as they were inventing tricks. All those dudes went on to be legends so what they said was law. 35 years later people still don't stinkbug and people still call them frontside nosegrinds.
Everyone misses what you said, even yourself. everyone today claims fs nose grinds are suppose to be straight but we need to go back, NONE OF THE EARLY FS NOSE GRINDS WERE STRAIGHT!! GO LOOK THEY ARE ALL CROOKED. It’s literally what aloud them to pop back into the pool guys, they did it on purpose and they called it a nose grind. I also agree overcrook is the ideal name but we need to think logically, how is a trick invented and named in the 1980s going to have the “ crook “ term when the crook term wasn’t invented until the 90s? They would have needed a Time Machine.
Yes, it's harder to do a nosegrind. That's the point. Locking it in at an angle isn't a nosegrind. A nosegrind is a harder trick. It also bugs me when I see people say they did a bluntslide on a rail. If your wheels aren't sliding, it's not a bluntslide.
I think the difference comes down entirely to intention. If you are intending to do a nosegrind and it drifts out, that's a nosegrind. If you are specifically trying to do a crooked grind then it's an overcrook - even if it looks exactly the same as that previous nosegrind.
the moment i realized fakie backside and nollie frontside are the same thing and the only difference is an arbitrary separation of stance is the last time i tried to gatekeep any skateboarding nomenclature, cause we are all idiots about this stuff. if one person is drawing with their dominant right hand, and another person replicates their drawing with their respective dominant left hand, we don't call one a 'upside down' drawing. in skateboarding, if it feels good and matches the intention you had in your head when you film it, thats it, no one can say shit. thats my ted talk eat grass nerds
They might not name them out loud, but they still know what they are going to do before they do it. So they are naming them in their head, even if it's only through the process of visualising the trick.
Trick naming prioritises more popular and common tricks and make names shorter. If every single Pro tweaks a bit the FS Nosegrind on a round rail, this became the default Nosegrind, same as a straight Nosegrind on a ledge. Whoever wants to call it FS Overcrook played too much THPS.
@@TheDylonCarter I partially agree, THPS was a good school for most people, including myself. But to translate it to the real world doesn't always work. In THPS a Bigspin is a Pop shove-it + 180, and you can do Frontside Indys 💀
@@TheDylonCarter Plus, THPS helped some real skaters to name tricks, but at the same time it became 100% the source of truth for those who don't skate, if you think about it 😅
Then you HAVE TO argue that crooked grinds just don't exist at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. You just decided that there is an arbitrary line without any reasoning.
@@juli7xxxxx I just said naming prioritises popular tricks, and now you say that one of the most popular tricks ever doesn't exist, the Crook hahah. I didn't draw any line buddy, I'm just explaining how Pros, tutorials and big media like Thrasher names tricks, apparently different from keyboard warriors hehe 😅
Your channel is a million times better than dumb data's in my not so humble opinion. Also your style is on point right now. I like the hair, jacket and jewelry.
One of the gatekeepers of skateboarding told me that a FS suski wasn’t a thing. If a bs suski is a thing, why not FS? I get that it’s named after the person that popularized it. But naming things only on one side and not the other is so arbitrary.
Funny enough, my 5 year old and I watched this trick on the kinked rail and he instantly said nosegrind and I retorted with "it's a frontside overcrook" 😂😂
That was 100% overcook. As soon as he contacted his truck he swung it over into the overcook. I used to do them bs that same way on ledge, pop almost to nose grind and immediately twist it into over crook. Nose grind goes straight and people do them on rail also, that was a over crook without question. People who say you can't overcook a rail like that are actually just people who don't know how to do a nose grind but can pinch the overcrook. Nose grind is far harder on a longer rail than an overcrook because it's much less stable
Imo I would call those over crooks on round rails cuz square rails you can absolutely do a nose grind. Colt Cannon did one that was fully balanced on a handrail.
Good talk. What about the nose blunt or front blunt on a rail thats more of a pop over noseslide or pop over back tail. Also, is it a blunt if you dont pop back over to the side you came from? We could go on for hours about this.
This is a great explanation of why the folksonomy of tricks is ambiguous. I think there's a distinction between the two tricks but it has more to do with intent and fine details like when the truck is pinched and for how long, and I'm not really going to downgrade, like, a crook on a ledge that sticks and gets momentarily un-pinched as a "nose grind" when it's clear the skater was trying to do a crook and functionally kept the board in the crook position the whole time. Similarly, I wouldn't call something a crook if the skater wasn't intending to do a crook, lands mostly straight and then his back foot drifts crook because of the pinch. Tricks done by humans in physical reality are not video games, and such details should probably really only count in like, Olympic scoring, lol.
Fs Overcrooks definitely exist. Why does every other grind trick have a frontside and a backside version? They are different tricks, done different ways and one is harder than the other.
Suski grinds only have a backside version, and salad grinds only have a frontside version. Also, Bennet grinds and Barley grinds are just frontside and backside versions of the same trick. So no, not every other grind has a frontside and backside version.
@@oldgregg86. well, sorry to break it to you but they are in fact, just 5-0s. Fs 5-0s have a tendency to rotate frontside, especially when you're doing them on a tall hubba. And when you're ollieing into it, if you don't ollie far enough towards the ledge, you can compensate by pushing your back leg forward to catch it, and do it crooked accidentally very easily. BS 5-0s also have a tendency to rotate a little bit. Plus, both those tricks don't look cool enough for anyone to want to do intentionally. Maybe if some pro started doing them it'd be named after them, but until that catches on they're just 5-0s.
ive never heard of someone trying to do a frontside overcrook on purpose on a rail. they are just doing a nose grind. a backside overvcrook on the other hand .... someone should just ask elijah what trick he was doing
I have on flatbars. Feels and looks like a different trick. Nosegrind feels like I’m in nose manny and overcrook feels like I did a lipslide then held a crook
By all logic, a lipslide on a rail is not even a lipslide because it's not a ramp or ledge, there is no "lip". It's an over-boardslide. Elijah is clearly riding FRONTSIDE to the rail, ollieing OVER the top into a CROOK. If his board was perfectly parallel with the rail that would be a nosegrind. I've only seen 2-3 people straight nosegrind down a round rail in that last 30 years, one of them being Tyrone Olson. Anyways this is some nerd shit, go out and skateboard.
I’m surprised you fell for the arguing physics trap in this argument. You know tricks are simply named by the creators. Everything else is irrelevant to the conversation.
If fs overcrooks don't exist because people are drawing arbitrary lines, that means there are only 3 grinds. 50-50, Nosegrind and 5-0. Everything else is just a tweaked variation of those 3 because now I drew some arbitrary lines.
If fs Overcrooks aren't real then no crooked or overcrooks exists at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. If pinch and lock don't matter on fs overcrooks they don't matter at all.
I feel like it also depends on the person doing the trick. If they were actively going for a FS overcrook then I would agree if they locked it in crooked
fs overcrooked needs to be taken seriously so the REAL fs nosegrind on rails becomes legit. Garret giner did fs nosegrind and fs overcrooked on flatbar, it's real
backside crooked grind (heelside lock)
frontside crooked grind (toeside lock)
backside overcrook (toeside lock)
frontside overcrook (heelside lock)
its weird to me that people would claim it doesn't exist. it seems like it follows all the same rules that categorize other tricks. if its a little sideways and you had to get your back foot over the obstacle, call it an overcrook. if its pointing straight, call it a nosegrind, i say.
Everyone I've ever skated with considered it a trick. It's simply giving a name to a grind with a specific board/truck position on the rail. Just the same as every other grind. People be weird nowadays. 😂
Almost everything you see in pro videos nowadays are fs overcrooks. Fs nosegrind is just too hard for them to do on a rail.
Regardless if it's "officially" right or wrong, personally for me an overcrook will always be an overcrook whether it's frontside or not. My logic being, we'd never call a salad grind or a Suski a 5-0, would we?
Counterpoint: Suskis only count backside and salads only count frontside. Following that logic overcrooks should only be backside cuz it’s also a “backwards facing” grind.
I don’t think it really matters and people will still say fs salad and bs suski and bs overcrook just to make sure you know it was the cooler looking and “more legit” version
@@possiblythatguy2304in my opinion, fs Suskis exist even less than fs nosegrinds. Much like nosegrinds, not only is it way easier to do a fs 5-0 crooked like that, but the trick is named after a real person who never did them frontside.
If someone says fs overcrook, I'm not gonna correct them. But fs Suski is just stupid.
Actually, a lot of people would say that a suski is only backside, and that a front suski is just a tweaked 5-0. It’s a similar argument.
It's purely about ego. They'd have to admit they can't FS nose grind. The argument is literally nose grinds are hard so people cheat.
I agree. I do this trick on flat bars. When I nose grind there is zero pinch, it is more like a nose manual where I grind. Front side over krooks absolutely agree. I think the opening clip was an over krook too man
IMO there absolutely is such a thing as FS overcrooks. The Elijah clip is so obviously crooked. If you took a snapshot half way through the grind and asked someone that never saw it what it was I bet most would say it's a crooked grind. The only reason there's no FS overcrooks is because skateboarding is petty and has a bunch of unwritten stupid "rules" mostly so "real" skaters (the ones in the right clique) can feel superior. Think of it this way, if bs overcrooks are an actual trick, then fs overcrooks have to be an actual trick. It just makes sense.
Tricks are named by the first skaters to do them. In the early 80s what you just described is how they PURPOSEFULLY did what they named fs nose grinds because angling it aloud them to pop back into the pool.
LOOK IT UP GUYS, ALL EARLY FS NOSEGRINDS ARE LIKE THIS.
Also I agree overcrook is the perfect name but there is one problem, they invented this harder version in the early 80s a decade before the crook would be invented so they would have literally needed a Time Machine to name this an overcrook.
One thing I never hear brought up in this argument is that nosegrinds were invented before crooked grinds. And since the easier way to do fs nosegrinds on a round rail is to do them with your truck hanging over, people most likely did fs nosegrinds like this before crooked grinds were invented. So at the time, those would have just been called nosegrinds, since that's all that existed.
The way I see it, a nosegrind is a nose manual where the front truck is grinding. A crook is a combination of a nosegrind and noseslide, much like a Smith grind is a combination of a 5-0 and lipslide
You the man, been watching for years, cheers dude.
It's an overkrook dude. The whole front nose grind is an old squabble from vert skaters bc front nosegrinds on vert are almost always crooked. The same with calling a cab a full cab. It's all old vert jargon they invented as they were inventing tricks. All those dudes went on to be legends so what they said was law. 35 years later people still don't stinkbug and people still call them frontside nosegrinds.
Until you see straight nosegrinds on rails, it's traditionally a nosegrind. Dumb argument.
Everyone misses what you said, even yourself.
everyone today claims fs nose grinds are suppose to be straight but we need to go back, NONE OF THE EARLY FS NOSE GRINDS WERE STRAIGHT!! GO LOOK THEY ARE ALL CROOKED.
It’s literally what aloud them to pop back into the pool guys, they did it on purpose and they called it a nose grind.
I also agree overcrook is the ideal name but we need to think logically, how is a trick invented and named in the 1980s going to have the “ crook “ term when the crook term wasn’t invented until the 90s? They would have needed a Time Machine.
Yes, it's harder to do a nosegrind. That's the point. Locking it in at an angle isn't a nosegrind. A nosegrind is a harder trick. It also bugs me when I see people say they did a bluntslide on a rail. If your wheels aren't sliding, it's not a bluntslide.
Agreed. Blunts need to be well.. blunt. If your board isn't pointing up at all, it's a fancy tailslide.
love videos like this
I think the difference comes down entirely to intention. If you are intending to do a nosegrind and it drifts out, that's a nosegrind. If you are specifically trying to do a crooked grind then it's an overcrook - even if it looks exactly the same as that previous nosegrind.
the moment i realized fakie backside and nollie frontside are the same thing and the only difference is an arbitrary separation of stance is the last time i tried to gatekeep any skateboarding nomenclature, cause we are all idiots about this stuff. if one person is drawing with their dominant right hand, and another person replicates their drawing with their respective dominant left hand, we don't call one a 'upside down' drawing. in skateboarding, if it feels good and matches the intention you had in your head when you film it, thats it, no one can say shit.
thats my ted talk eat grass nerds
FAKIE IS SWITCH NOLLIE!!!
@@mtgguiltfeeder4111I can support that
I'm still trying to understand where you get the courage to jump on a hand rail at full speed.
A lot of people I know who are good at skateboarding don't even name the tricks they land.
They might not name them out loud, but they still know what they are going to do before they do it. So they are naming them in their head, even if it's only through the process of visualising the trick.
Naw ppl know what trick they're doing 😂
Using session to demonstrate is such a good idea!
Trick naming prioritises more popular and common tricks and make names shorter. If every single Pro tweaks a bit the FS Nosegrind on a round rail, this became the default Nosegrind, same as a straight Nosegrind on a ledge. Whoever wants to call it FS Overcrook played too much THPS.
Considering thps taught a whole generation tricks. Maybe they were right..
@@TheDylonCarter I partially agree, THPS was a good school for most people, including myself. But to translate it to the real world doesn't always work. In THPS a Bigspin is a Pop shove-it + 180, and you can do Frontside Indys 💀
@@TheDylonCarter Plus, THPS helped some real skaters to name tricks, but at the same time it became 100% the source of truth for those who don't skate, if you think about it 😅
Then you HAVE TO argue that crooked grinds just don't exist at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. You just decided that there is an arbitrary line without any reasoning.
@@juli7xxxxx I just said naming prioritises popular tricks, and now you say that one of the most popular tricks ever doesn't exist, the Crook hahah. I didn't draw any line buddy, I'm just explaining how Pros, tutorials and big media like Thrasher names tricks, apparently different from keyboard warriors hehe 😅
I think thats a very good analysis and i completely agree.
Your channel is a million times better than dumb data's in my not so humble opinion. Also your style is on point right now. I like the hair, jacket and jewelry.
"Wheel locking" has never been a requirement.
Great analysis
One of the gatekeepers of skateboarding told me that a FS suski wasn’t a thing. If a bs suski is a thing, why not FS? I get that it’s named after the person that popularized it. But naming things only on one side and not the other is so arbitrary.
need a trick history recurring series from you homie
This was a great discussion about this
I still call them pointer grinds
haha I actually like the sound of over-pointer xD
its all semantics, the angles are different. colt cannon does straight nosegrinds on rails
So in short, a real FS Overcrook needs to look like a FS Noseblunt Slide, but the front truck is still grinding, not sliding.
Funny enough, my 5 year old and I watched this trick on the kinked rail and he instantly said nosegrind and I retorted with "it's a frontside overcrook" 😂😂
the elephant in the room: why do they still call it the other way for backside?
Great video and explains it well
That was 100% overcook. As soon as he contacted his truck he swung it over into the overcook. I used to do them bs that same way on ledge, pop almost to nose grind and immediately twist it into over crook. Nose grind goes straight and people do them on rail also, that was a over crook without question. People who say you can't overcook a rail like that are actually just people who don't know how to do a nose grind but can pinch the overcrook. Nose grind is far harder on a longer rail than an overcrook because it's much less stable
I had to click the video and chime in because the thumbnail is a backside overcrook and I just wanted to make sure yall aren't drunk. lol
Happy holidays to you and your family rad rat!!
Imo I would call those over crooks on round rails cuz square rails you can absolutely do a nose grind. Colt Cannon did one that was fully balanced on a handrail.
Sounds like skate boardering should adopt the term near side and far side . Aggressive inline uses these terms.
Good talk. What about the nose blunt or front blunt on a rail thats more of a pop over noseslide or pop over back tail. Also, is it a blunt if you dont pop back over to the side you came from? We could go on for hours about this.
This is a great explanation of why the folksonomy of tricks is ambiguous. I think there's a distinction between the two tricks but it has more to do with intent and fine details like when the truck is pinched and for how long, and I'm not really going to downgrade, like, a crook on a ledge that sticks and gets momentarily un-pinched as a "nose grind" when it's clear the skater was trying to do a crook and functionally kept the board in the crook position the whole time. Similarly, I wouldn't call something a crook if the skater wasn't intending to do a crook, lands mostly straight and then his back foot drifts crook because of the pinch. Tricks done by humans in physical reality are not video games, and such details should probably really only count in like, Olympic scoring, lol.
toe lock nose grind looks sick tho
Call that a nose salad grind on a ledge ha
Try and do a front or back nose grind straight on a round rail…. And that’s why 🙃
Elijah Berle for soty
If you think overcrooks exist then you probably don’t do front nosegrinds….. a perfectly straight front nosegrind is basically impossible
Really enjoyable video as always 👌
Ty
Fs Overcrooks definitely exist.
Why does every other grind trick have a frontside and a backside version?
They are different tricks, done different ways and one is harder than the other.
Suski grinds only have a backside version, and salad grinds only have a frontside version. Also, Bennet grinds and Barley grinds are just frontside and backside versions of the same trick.
So no, not every other grind has a frontside and backside version.
@JustinBA007 so what would you call a fs suski or bs salad then? Because they aren't 5-0s if they aren't parallel.
@@oldgregg86. well, sorry to break it to you but they are in fact, just 5-0s. Fs 5-0s have a tendency to rotate frontside, especially when you're doing them on a tall hubba. And when you're ollieing into it, if you don't ollie far enough towards the ledge, you can compensate by pushing your back leg forward to catch it, and do it crooked accidentally very easily. BS 5-0s also have a tendency to rotate a little bit.
Plus, both those tricks don't look cool enough for anyone to want to do intentionally. Maybe if some pro started doing them it'd be named after them, but until that catches on they're just 5-0s.
ive never heard of someone trying to do a frontside overcrook on purpose on a rail. they are just doing a nose grind. a backside overvcrook on the other hand .... someone should just ask elijah what trick he was doing
I have on flatbars. Feels and looks like a different trick. Nosegrind feels like I’m in nose manny and overcrook feels like I did a lipslide then held a crook
An overcrook is a nosegrind on a rail.
Skateboarding has become over-crook
Yea boii have a nice day everyone!
They have always existed to me
Yeah but then wouldn't a front noseblunt be a frontside over noseslide?
The double sided ledge ones make sense though, I agree with calling them ollie over to krook
Anyone who skates for real knows there's no fs overcrook on rails
First one to explain it well dang i get it now
They do
Should I buy a braille
This is delicious. Love it.
Why don’t frontside nose grinds exist?
They do exist only an idiot will say they dont
Do grind king
By all logic, a lipslide on a rail is not even a lipslide because it's not a ramp or ledge, there is no "lip". It's an over-boardslide. Elijah is clearly riding FRONTSIDE to the rail, ollieing OVER the top into a CROOK. If his board was perfectly parallel with the rail that would be a nosegrind. I've only seen 2-3 people straight nosegrind down a round rail in that last 30 years, one of them being Tyrone Olson. Anyways this is some nerd shit, go out and skateboard.
jus sk8. STOP!
You can’t overcrook a ledge, and you can’t nose grind a rail. It’s not rocket science
I'm a square rail and I disagree.
I’m surprised you fell for the arguing physics trap in this argument. You know tricks are simply named by the creators.
Everything else is irrelevant to the conversation.
Because overcrook
George Bush good. Give me dollah
In reality it’s a lipcrook lol
If fs overcrooks don't exist because people are drawing arbitrary lines, that means there are only 3 grinds. 50-50, Nosegrind and 5-0. Everything else is just a tweaked variation of those 3 because now I drew some arbitrary lines.
Maybe because it would be impossible?
did you even watch the video?
DUDE. If you play the clip in reverse he is doing a switch suski grind up the handrail, so OBVIOUSLY..... j/k front overcrooks aren't real 😂
If fs Overcrooks aren't real then no crooked or overcrooks exists at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. If pinch and lock don't matter on fs overcrooks they don't matter at all.
@juli7xxxxx bruh I'm just having fun
I feel like it also depends on the person doing the trick. If they were actively going for a FS overcrook then I would agree if they locked it in crooked