The way I see it, a nosegrind is a nose manual where the front truck is grinding. A crook is a combination of a nosegrind and noseslide, much like a Smith grind is a combination of a 5-0 and lipslide
I agree. I do this trick on flat bars. When I nose grind there is zero pinch, it is more like a nose manual where I grind. Front side over krooks absolutely agree. I think the opening clip was an over krook too man
Regardless if it's "officially" right or wrong, personally for me an overcrook will always be an overcrook whether it's frontside or not. My logic being, we'd never call a salad grind or a Suski a 5-0, would we?
Counterpoint: Suskis only count backside and salads only count frontside. Following that logic overcrooks should only be backside cuz it’s also a “backwards facing” grind. I don’t think it really matters and people will still say fs salad and bs suski and bs overcrook just to make sure you know it was the cooler looking and “more legit” version
@@possiblythatguy2304in my opinion, fs Suskis exist even less than fs nosegrinds. Much like nosegrinds, not only is it way easier to do a fs 5-0 crooked like that, but the trick is named after a real person who never did them frontside. If someone says fs overcrook, I'm not gonna correct them. But fs Suski is just stupid.
fs overcrooked needs to be taken seriously so the REAL fs nosegrind on rails becomes legit. Garret giner did fs nosegrind and fs overcrooked on flatbar, it's real
I think the difference comes down entirely to intention. If you are intending to do a nosegrind and it drifts out, that's a nosegrind. If you are specifically trying to do a crooked grind then it's an overcrook - even if it looks exactly the same as that previous nosegrind.
IMO there absolutely is such a thing as FS overcrooks. The Elijah clip is so obviously crooked. If you took a snapshot half way through the grind and asked someone that never saw it what it was I bet most would say it's a crooked grind. The only reason there's no FS overcrooks is because skateboarding is petty and has a bunch of unwritten stupid "rules" mostly so "real" skaters (the ones in the right clique) can feel superior. Think of it this way, if bs overcrooks are an actual trick, then fs overcrooks have to be an actual trick. It just makes sense.
Yes, it's harder to do a nosegrind. That's the point. Locking it in at an angle isn't a nosegrind. A nosegrind is a harder trick. It also bugs me when I see people say they did a bluntslide on a rail. If your wheels aren't sliding, it's not a bluntslide.
It's an overkrook dude. The whole front nose grind is an old squabble from vert skaters bc front nosegrinds on vert are almost always crooked. The same with calling a cab a full cab. It's all old vert jargon they invented as they were inventing tricks. All those dudes went on to be legends so what they said was law. 35 years later people still don't stinkbug and people still call them frontside nosegrinds.
One thing I never hear brought up in this argument is that nosegrinds were invented before crooked grinds. And since the easier way to do fs nosegrinds on a round rail is to do them with your truck hanging over, people most likely did fs nosegrinds like this before crooked grinds were invented. So at the time, those would have just been called nosegrinds, since that's all that existed.
Your channel is a million times better than dumb data's in my not so humble opinion. Also your style is on point right now. I like the hair, jacket and jewelry.
Trick naming prioritises more popular and common tricks and make names shorter. If every single Pro tweaks a bit the FS Nosegrind on a round rail, this became the default Nosegrind, same as a straight Nosegrind on a ledge. Whoever wants to call it FS Overcrook played too much THPS.
@@TheDylonCarter I partially agree, THPS was a good school for most people, including myself. But to translate it to the real world doesn't always work. In THPS a Bigspin is a Pop shove-it + 180, and you can do Frontside Indys 💀
@@TheDylonCarter Plus, THPS helped some real skaters to name tricks, but at the same time it became 100% the source of truth for those who don't skate, if you think about it 😅
Then you HAVE TO argue that crooked grinds just don't exist at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. You just decided that there is an arbitrary line without any reasoning.
@@juli7xxxxx I just said naming prioritises popular tricks, and now you say that one of the most popular tricks ever doesn't exist, the Crook hahah. I didn't draw any line buddy, I'm just explaining how Pros, tutorials and big media like Thrasher names tricks, apparently different from keyboard warriors hehe 😅
Good talk. What about the nose blunt or front blunt on a rail thats more of a pop over noseslide or pop over back tail. Also, is it a blunt if you dont pop back over to the side you came from? We could go on for hours about this.
Funny enough, my 5 year old and I watched this trick on the kinked rail and he instantly said nosegrind and I retorted with "it's a frontside overcrook" 😂😂
Imo I would call those over crooks on round rails cuz square rails you can absolutely do a nose grind. Colt Cannon did one that was fully balanced on a handrail.
They might not name them out loud, but they still know what they are going to do before they do it. So they are naming them in their head, even if it's only through the process of visualising the trick.
Fs Overcrooks definitely exist. Why does every other grind trick have a frontside and a backside version? They are different tricks, done different ways and one is harder than the other.
Suski grinds only have a backside version, and salad grinds only have a frontside version. Also, Bennet grinds and Barley grinds are just frontside and backside versions of the same trick. So no, not every other grind has a frontside and backside version.
@@oldgregg86. well, sorry to break it to you but they are in fact, just 5-0s. Fs 5-0s have a tendency to rotate frontside, especially when you're doing them on a tall hubba. And when you're ollieing into it, if you don't ollie far enough towards the ledge, you can compensate by pushing your back leg forward to catch it, and do it crooked accidentally very easily. BS 5-0s also have a tendency to rotate a little bit. Plus, both those tricks don't look cool enough for anyone to want to do intentionally. Maybe if some pro started doing them it'd be named after them, but until that catches on they're just 5-0s.
This is a great explanation of why the folksonomy of tricks is ambiguous. I think there's a distinction between the two tricks but it has more to do with intent and fine details like when the truck is pinched and for how long, and I'm not really going to downgrade, like, a crook on a ledge that sticks and gets momentarily un-pinched as a "nose grind" when it's clear the skater was trying to do a crook and functionally kept the board in the crook position the whole time. Similarly, I wouldn't call something a crook if the skater wasn't intending to do a crook, lands mostly straight and then his back foot drifts crook because of the pinch. Tricks done by humans in physical reality are not video games, and such details should probably really only count in like, Olympic scoring, lol.
the moment i realized fakie backside and nollie frontside are the same thing and the only difference is an arbitrary separation of stance is the last time i tried to gatekeep any skateboarding nomenclature, cause we are all idiots about this stuff. if one person is drawing with their dominant right hand, and another person replicates their drawing with their respective dominant left hand, we don't call one a 'upside down' drawing. in skateboarding, if it feels good and matches the intention you had in your head when you film it, thats it, no one can say shit. thats my ted talk eat grass nerds
One of the gatekeepers of skateboarding told me that a FS suski wasn’t a thing. If a bs suski is a thing, why not FS? I get that it’s named after the person that popularized it. But naming things only on one side and not the other is so arbitrary.
ive never heard of someone trying to do a frontside overcrook on purpose on a rail. they are just doing a nose grind. a backside overvcrook on the other hand .... someone should just ask elijah what trick he was doing
I have on flatbars. Feels and looks like a different trick. Nosegrind feels like I’m in nose manny and overcrook feels like I did a lipslide then held a crook
If fs overcrooks don't exist because people are drawing arbitrary lines, that means there are only 3 grinds. 50-50, Nosegrind and 5-0. Everything else is just a tweaked variation of those 3 because now I drew some arbitrary lines.
If fs Overcrooks aren't real then no crooked or overcrooks exists at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. If pinch and lock don't matter on fs overcrooks they don't matter at all.
The way I see it, a nosegrind is a nose manual where the front truck is grinding. A crook is a combination of a nosegrind and noseslide, much like a Smith grind is a combination of a 5-0 and lipslide
I agree. I do this trick on flat bars. When I nose grind there is zero pinch, it is more like a nose manual where I grind. Front side over krooks absolutely agree. I think the opening clip was an over krook too man
Regardless if it's "officially" right or wrong, personally for me an overcrook will always be an overcrook whether it's frontside or not. My logic being, we'd never call a salad grind or a Suski a 5-0, would we?
Counterpoint: Suskis only count backside and salads only count frontside. Following that logic overcrooks should only be backside cuz it’s also a “backwards facing” grind.
I don’t think it really matters and people will still say fs salad and bs suski and bs overcrook just to make sure you know it was the cooler looking and “more legit” version
@@possiblythatguy2304in my opinion, fs Suskis exist even less than fs nosegrinds. Much like nosegrinds, not only is it way easier to do a fs 5-0 crooked like that, but the trick is named after a real person who never did them frontside.
If someone says fs overcrook, I'm not gonna correct them. But fs Suski is just stupid.
Actually, a lot of people would say that a suski is only backside, and that a front suski is just a tweaked 5-0. It’s a similar argument.
fs overcrooked needs to be taken seriously so the REAL fs nosegrind on rails becomes legit. Garret giner did fs nosegrind and fs overcrooked on flatbar, it's real
I think the difference comes down entirely to intention. If you are intending to do a nosegrind and it drifts out, that's a nosegrind. If you are specifically trying to do a crooked grind then it's an overcrook - even if it looks exactly the same as that previous nosegrind.
You the man, been watching for years, cheers dude.
IMO there absolutely is such a thing as FS overcrooks. The Elijah clip is so obviously crooked. If you took a snapshot half way through the grind and asked someone that never saw it what it was I bet most would say it's a crooked grind. The only reason there's no FS overcrooks is because skateboarding is petty and has a bunch of unwritten stupid "rules" mostly so "real" skaters (the ones in the right clique) can feel superior. Think of it this way, if bs overcrooks are an actual trick, then fs overcrooks have to be an actual trick. It just makes sense.
Yes, it's harder to do a nosegrind. That's the point. Locking it in at an angle isn't a nosegrind. A nosegrind is a harder trick. It also bugs me when I see people say they did a bluntslide on a rail. If your wheels aren't sliding, it's not a bluntslide.
Agreed. Blunts need to be well.. blunt. If your board isn't pointing up at all, it's a fancy tailslide.
It's an overkrook dude. The whole front nose grind is an old squabble from vert skaters bc front nosegrinds on vert are almost always crooked. The same with calling a cab a full cab. It's all old vert jargon they invented as they were inventing tricks. All those dudes went on to be legends so what they said was law. 35 years later people still don't stinkbug and people still call them frontside nosegrinds.
Until you see straight nosegrinds on rails, it's traditionally a nosegrind. Dumb argument.
love videos like this
"Wheel locking" has never been a requirement.
One thing I never hear brought up in this argument is that nosegrinds were invented before crooked grinds. And since the easier way to do fs nosegrinds on a round rail is to do them with your truck hanging over, people most likely did fs nosegrinds like this before crooked grinds were invented. So at the time, those would have just been called nosegrinds, since that's all that existed.
I'm still trying to understand where you get the courage to jump on a hand rail at full speed.
Your channel is a million times better than dumb data's in my not so humble opinion. Also your style is on point right now. I like the hair, jacket and jewelry.
I still call them pointer grinds
I think thats a very good analysis and i completely agree.
Using session to demonstrate is such a good idea!
Trick naming prioritises more popular and common tricks and make names shorter. If every single Pro tweaks a bit the FS Nosegrind on a round rail, this became the default Nosegrind, same as a straight Nosegrind on a ledge. Whoever wants to call it FS Overcrook played too much THPS.
Considering thps taught a whole generation tricks. Maybe they were right..
@@TheDylonCarter I partially agree, THPS was a good school for most people, including myself. But to translate it to the real world doesn't always work. In THPS a Bigspin is a Pop shove-it + 180, and you can do Frontside Indys 💀
@@TheDylonCarter Plus, THPS helped some real skaters to name tricks, but at the same time it became 100% the source of truth for those who don't skate, if you think about it 😅
Then you HAVE TO argue that crooked grinds just don't exist at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. You just decided that there is an arbitrary line without any reasoning.
@@juli7xxxxx I just said naming prioritises popular tricks, and now you say that one of the most popular tricks ever doesn't exist, the Crook hahah. I didn't draw any line buddy, I'm just explaining how Pros, tutorials and big media like Thrasher names tricks, apparently different from keyboard warriors hehe 😅
Great analysis
Sounds like skate boardering should adopt the term near side and far side . Aggressive inline uses these terms.
Good talk. What about the nose blunt or front blunt on a rail thats more of a pop over noseslide or pop over back tail. Also, is it a blunt if you dont pop back over to the side you came from? We could go on for hours about this.
Funny enough, my 5 year old and I watched this trick on the kinked rail and he instantly said nosegrind and I retorted with "it's a frontside overcrook" 😂😂
Imo I would call those over crooks on round rails cuz square rails you can absolutely do a nose grind. Colt Cannon did one that was fully balanced on a handrail.
A lot of people I know who are good at skateboarding don't even name the tricks they land.
They might not name them out loud, but they still know what they are going to do before they do it. So they are naming them in their head, even if it's only through the process of visualising the trick.
Naw ppl know what trick they're doing 😂
need a trick history recurring series from you homie
Happy holidays to you and your family rad rat!!
Great video and explains it well
So in short, a real FS Overcrook needs to look like a FS Noseblunt Slide, but the front truck is still grinding, not sliding.
I had to click the video and chime in because the thumbnail is a backside overcrook and I just wanted to make sure yall aren't drunk. lol
the elephant in the room: why do they still call it the other way for backside?
Ty
Fs Overcrooks definitely exist.
Why does every other grind trick have a frontside and a backside version?
They are different tricks, done different ways and one is harder than the other.
Suski grinds only have a backside version, and salad grinds only have a frontside version. Also, Bennet grinds and Barley grinds are just frontside and backside versions of the same trick.
So no, not every other grind has a frontside and backside version.
@JustinBA007 so what would you call a fs suski or bs salad then? Because they aren't 5-0s if they aren't parallel.
@@oldgregg86. well, sorry to break it to you but they are in fact, just 5-0s. Fs 5-0s have a tendency to rotate frontside, especially when you're doing them on a tall hubba. And when you're ollieing into it, if you don't ollie far enough towards the ledge, you can compensate by pushing your back leg forward to catch it, and do it crooked accidentally very easily. BS 5-0s also have a tendency to rotate a little bit.
Plus, both those tricks don't look cool enough for anyone to want to do intentionally. Maybe if some pro started doing them it'd be named after them, but until that catches on they're just 5-0s.
This is a great explanation of why the folksonomy of tricks is ambiguous. I think there's a distinction between the two tricks but it has more to do with intent and fine details like when the truck is pinched and for how long, and I'm not really going to downgrade, like, a crook on a ledge that sticks and gets momentarily un-pinched as a "nose grind" when it's clear the skater was trying to do a crook and functionally kept the board in the crook position the whole time. Similarly, I wouldn't call something a crook if the skater wasn't intending to do a crook, lands mostly straight and then his back foot drifts crook because of the pinch. Tricks done by humans in physical reality are not video games, and such details should probably really only count in like, Olympic scoring, lol.
the moment i realized fakie backside and nollie frontside are the same thing and the only difference is an arbitrary separation of stance is the last time i tried to gatekeep any skateboarding nomenclature, cause we are all idiots about this stuff. if one person is drawing with their dominant right hand, and another person replicates their drawing with their respective dominant left hand, we don't call one a 'upside down' drawing. in skateboarding, if it feels good and matches the intention you had in your head when you film it, thats it, no one can say shit.
thats my ted talk eat grass nerds
FAKIE IS SWITCH NOLLIE!!!
@@mtgguiltfeeder4111I can support that
An overcrook is a nosegrind on a rail.
Really enjoyable video as always 👌
It's purely about ego. They'd have to admit they can't FS nose grind. The argument is literally nose grinds are hard so people cheat.
Skateboarding has become over-crook
They have always existed to me
Elijah Berle for soty
Yeah but then wouldn't a front noseblunt be a frontside over noseslide?
The double sided ledge ones make sense though, I agree with calling them ollie over to krook
Yea boii have a nice day everyone!
One of the gatekeepers of skateboarding told me that a FS suski wasn’t a thing. If a bs suski is a thing, why not FS? I get that it’s named after the person that popularized it. But naming things only on one side and not the other is so arbitrary.
First one to explain it well dang i get it now
This is delicious. Love it.
Why don’t frontside nose grinds exist?
ive never heard of someone trying to do a frontside overcrook on purpose on a rail. they are just doing a nose grind. a backside overvcrook on the other hand .... someone should just ask elijah what trick he was doing
I have on flatbars. Feels and looks like a different trick. Nosegrind feels like I’m in nose manny and overcrook feels like I did a lipslide then held a crook
Do grind king
You can’t overcrook a ledge, and you can’t nose grind a rail. It’s not rocket science
I'm a square rail and I disagree.
George Bush good. Give me dollah
Because overcrook
In reality it’s a lipcrook lol
If fs overcrooks don't exist because people are drawing arbitrary lines, that means there are only 3 grinds. 50-50, Nosegrind and 5-0. Everything else is just a tweaked variation of those 3 because now I drew some arbitrary lines.
DUDE. If you play the clip in reverse he is doing a switch suski grind up the handrail, so OBVIOUSLY..... j/k front overcrooks aren't real 😂
If fs Overcrooks aren't real then no crooked or overcrooks exists at all. They're all just tweaked Nosegrinds. If pinch and lock don't matter on fs overcrooks they don't matter at all.
@juli7xxxxx bruh I'm just having fun
Maybe because it would be impossible?
did you even watch the video?