The Soviet Red Star MiGs That Weren't Supposed to Exist in the Korean War
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ก.พ. 2020
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November 1952: in the freezing air above Japanese waters with a low cloud cover and almost no visibility, four American Pilots flying Panther F9F-5s met seven MiG-15s that were not supposed to be there. Due to aircraft malfunctions, three of the four American pilots could not engage, leaving only one pilot, Lt. Royce Williams, to face off with the superior fighter jets. It is rumored that they all were mysteriously marked with a Soviet Red Star in what would come to be one of the best kept secrets of the Korean War...
- As images and footage of actual events are not always available, Dark Docs sometimes utilizes similar historical images and footage for dramatic effect. All content on Dark Docs is researched, produced, and presented in historical context for educational purposes. -
The Mig 15’s flew out of Vladivostok. The Soviets were concerned about the proximity of a carrier task group to Soviet airspace/territorial waters. Royce Williams was probably the best Naval Aviator of the Korean War and had to go unrecognized as such for half a century.
Taking down 3 MiG-15s in a Panther puts him up there as one of the best Naval Aviators in history, in my book.
@@ljessecusterl Yes, but they gave him credit for four. One limped back to Vladivostok but was so damaged that it crashed in close proximity to the airbase. All four of the Soviet pilots were listed as dead as a result of the crashes. Dude took down four in one engagement by himself. Then couldn’t even tell his wife for 50 years. Yep, agree with you, he was one of the best.
Just the fact that he’s a naval aviator is already awesome, but taking down 4 Migs in a freaking Panther, that stuff is straight out of Hollywood. Bet he couldn’t eject cause his balls were too heavy.
And then they listen to Vladivostok FM in their Mig’s
back in the day when WW3 wasn't something the US president wanted...
Find some info on Soviets in Vietnam. There was a secret Spetznaz raid on a airbase that had new Cobra helicopters and theres videos of Soviet veterans in the 90s saying how now they want recognition for their fallen comrades in the secret missions. And it seems legit since they waited for the USSR to fall.
Soviets where known to pilot nva migs as well American pilot's recall seeing Caucasian males in the cockpit
Steve Maier whoa really?
Dave O Oh yeah, it happened pretty frequently according to pilots.
@@jellymop yeah. That's real. I'm a bit of a Vietnam War buff. Even the North Vietnamese pilots admitted it years after the War ended.
DM Pope I wouldn’t be surprised to find there was no Delta combat against the Soviets considering Delta was a post Vietnam group haha.
"You were not there, that didn't happened, you didn't see anything," several of us who served in the US military know that drill...
How many involve UFOs?
@@SgtShakenBake I dont know what your talking about ;)
@@colegutteridge5730 lel
Wish I had known that drill back in Catholic junior high!
See what? Where?
I was on leave and really drunk that day, sir.
This channel is by far one of my favourites to watch, the mini docs are always so interesting and the narrator is great too. I remember the early videos of just text, I loved those too but now I can sit back chill and learn something new and most likely horrific about human history. Thank You Dark Docs for the Continuesly Amazing and Detailed interesting content, Much Love x]
SerjeoChaos they have been really churning out a lately. Hope they keep it coming! 🤞
Mark Felton does it better. Check his channel out.
@@tdietz021 Marc Felton has an extreme patriotic (British) bias. This channel tries to keep a more neutral tone.
@@interstellarsurfer I'm not sure whether it does yet, but this guy, while clearly American, isn't being all jingoism and other bullshit...
@@interstellarsurfer "Marc Felton has an extreme patriotic (British) bias"
I would call it focus rather than bias. For example his current video on the Lightning. He says how it could intercept U2s and Concorde but tempers thing by noting it was only accomplished in a particularly fast Lightning.
So yes he focuses on British stories but he doesnt make them out to be anything extraordinary.
I would feel embarrassed if the Military awarded me a kill that was DEFINITELY someone else's.
Top Gun before Top Gun.
Wasn't Maverick's dad and Viper served in the Oriskany but in the Vietnam war?
we need a prequel top gun movie.
Yes but they messed up because that aircraft carrier was to small for the phantom. Whoever wrote top gun should've done better research!
@Adam Halsey 🎵Tau~TO-logy...🎵
Topper Harley
Not a great surprise to me. I was taught to fly by a Romanian MiG-15 pilot drafted to the Soviet Air Force - who defected in 1950 to Japan from Russia. He wound up training RAF pilots in Korea on the weaknesses of the MiG-15 (including a nasty unrecoverable stall spin characteristic).
Nice.Can you tell me his name? I'm curious about him since i'm Romanian too.
@@predattak John Brown (his father was English). He also flew for the Romanian Airforce in WW2 (as a 16 year old cadet in 1944).
So there’s there’s 2 Soviet MiG pilots that defected to Japan and the West? Viktor Belenko defected to the West in a MiG 25 Foxbat in 1976. This seems unprecedented to me. Who are you referring to? I can’t seem to locate any Romanian MiG pilots to defect in 1950 to Japan. I believe you’re referring to Polish-born Franciszek Jarecki, and it was a MiG 15, but it was 1953 and he defected to Bornholm, a Danish island. Damn, you mucked all of that up. Kinda destroys your credibility. Your recollection is all mucked up.
@@louisvarre2197 Franciszek brought his plane. John Brown just got a boat with a couple of friends as they stopped putting enough fuel in the planes to reach Japan. Quite a few Eastern Europeans left without waiting for permission. The RAF and USAF took an interest in his skill set.
Allan Gibson m
Actually, it is confirmed that the fourth one was destroyed. The fallen Soviet pilots are: Captains Belyakov and Vandalov, and Lieutenants Pakhomkin and Tarshinov.
May the heroes rest in peace.
@@Daniel_876 "heroes"
LtSenpai they were just doing their job, no need to be disrespectful .
@@seduxtive776 calling them heroes is disrespectful.
LtSenpai how .
Oh-risk-uh-nee
Bingo.
Yep...
...talk about butchering a ship name...!!! Damn...
Dear gaawd that was annoying how he kept saying the name wrong
My barber served on Big O during Vietnam. He just passed a few months ago. Happy sailing, Gil Bashore
4:30 Wait there are 7 migs against the 4 of us? Oops it seem my fuel pump warning light turn on, I better go back and have that checked out ;)
One of the other wingman could've at least stayed!*
* Yes, I know you must stay with your wingman, BUT leaving them behind against such odds isn't fine either. UNLESS they knew he could handle it!
That's what I wondered about... And that guy's wingman had to escort him away from 7 Migs. Even his own wingman had to get gun camera footage with "jammed guns"...
Douger Rohmer they wouldn’t have jammed as .50 cals but his wingman probably wouldn’t have cooked 4 Mig’s while he’s taking a video without 20s
Like you know.
That did seem strange.
Perhaps he was also ordered not to engage them? Yet he did.
That's a helluva fight! And to land with a perfect trap with a shot to hell fighter just adds to this legendary achievement! Thanks for putting this out Dark Docs!
The guy shoots down 3 Migs, gets shot up. Flies the plane home with limited control. Still makes a 3 wire. I'll be damned
Cahones of steel!
Don't believe such propaganda.
Soldiers after WW2: we finally return after so long and after so much death.
*Korean War starts.*
Soldiers: oh, shit. Here we go again.
Most of the soldiers on the American side that fought in the Korean War were not ww2 vets. Rather they were people who barely missed out on the Second World War and still wanted to enlist. I believe if the force in Korea were all ww2 vets a lot of things would have gone differently. One reason I think the Chinese did so well is that they sent quite a lot of their battle hardened ww2 vets during the invasion.
logicbomb007 the main reason you don’t hear about Chinese vets is because of China’s media policies. If you watched more Chinese tv shows you will see there are quite of bit of military vets left. Hell there are some clips on TH-cam with Korean War vets. I know a lot of them died during the war but there is still a lot of them that survived the war. They speak very fondly of some American units especially the Air Force while saying they targeted the Korean division since they were weaker.
What an amazing story! I’ve never even heard whispers about this.
I’ve been a fan for a while now, you are evolving as the TH-cam restraints continue to make it hard for you. Your pace is now perfect(it didn’t bother me before, that’s how fast my inner monologue talks lol).
It’s great being her as you make your channel better with every story, content and delivery are both top notch.
I see you take some lumps in the comments section, so I just wanted to let you know I love the channel, always have. Keep up the good work!
That’s the navy for you!! They just never give credit. For great deeds. Too many egos in charge. Sad but very true! God bless all you unamed true hero’s.
Cleveland Campbell well, to be fair, they kept this one under wraps to try and stop literally WW3.
You want ribbons for doing nothing, join the Air Force.
More Money For Dreadnoughts yeah but you can fly cool jets without having to say you’re in the navy. I heard that’s important for some. To me it’s all the same basic story. Although super carriers are cool, too.
That said, I’d love to be involved in any part of the armed forces, but I don’t think my developmental back issues would tolerate it. It’s a good thing they have boot camp, because you don’t want so be struck down by something in the middle of a firefight, and someone has to risk their lives saving your dumb arse.
This was my Dad's war, CVA 46 7th fleet USS Randolph, he knew the Russian union was at work, their planes were better. It was rough, we lost a lot of good men. My dad knew 1st hand he was an aircraft mechanic, structural engineer, and hydraulics specialist. AMH2, 2nd Class Petty officer. He felt so helpless to do something more to help, it was a tough war, he never forgot it. A lot happens we don't talk about, all those GUYS deserve the Medal of Honor, many more people have medals that never existed, my dad was just 1. God bless our men and women who fight for our continued freedom everyday.
Im constantly impressed by this channel. Thank you.
"Mysteriously marked with the Communist Red Star"...LOLOL
he even say the pilot werent even sure if some of the plane had the mark or not, so there must be secret plane manned by russia.
its a bullshit story.
@@Francois_Dupont It was acknowledged by the Russians after the fall of the USSR.
@@Francois_Dupont lol, did you even listen? The whole thing was swept under the rug in an attempt to not escalate things between the US and the USSR. Same shit went on in Vietnam
@@Francois_Dupont ur a moron
@@Francois_Dupont 10:09 not to mention that Russians flying Mig's during the Korean war was an open "secret"
A great story that deserves to be remembered. TY for creating & posting this.
The F-9 is one of those most beautiful classic era fighters. There were so many awesome designs in the 50's and 60's.
and one of the worst ...slow, heavy unmaneuverable underpowered ...
@@Asghaad
well, the point was the aesthetics. some of us from older eras have a vision of "fast", and the stuff they were designing in those days looked fast as hell just sitting still. of course that didn't perform compared to modern standards, and they were terribly inefficient on top of it all. but just stand back and look at the designs... the F-9, the F-4E, F-101, F-104... even the XB-70... and my favorite of all time, the B-58. There is just something about the design work on those that reflects mans desires of faster, higher, better, and the struggle to get there.
As much as I appreciate the strides that have been made in engineering since then, there is still something about those old cold war designs that brings a smile when I look at them
look like ugly
I can't agree w you on that one. Everybody has their favorite though.
"Last time."
That we know of.
Pete "Maverick" Mitchell may disagree.
You really have to salute & applaud the professionalism of the service men & women. They still manage to fight effectively with one arm tied behind their back. Whether due to political correctness, secrecy, or even sometimes being relied upon to make their best judgement call in 'hot' situations, thereby diffusing further esclations by keeping their wits about them.
An amazing tale of daring do! Most impressive. Thanks for sharing.
It goes to show that there more to a fight than superior equipment and superior training, its superior determination and experience matters too
Great channel! Keep it up, a million subs incoming.
The worst thing about your videos are the constant Mike Bloomberg ads. Aside from that, top notch media! It’s pre pawn stars and antique garbage history channel material! Keep up the good work my friend!
Minong Maniac Bloomberg is a pos. he’s anti weed and he’s an oligarch
I get bloomberg adds on everything everywhere its so annoying, after getting the same add 5x in a row I just started reporting the adds as being repetitive and have seen far less of them.
The ads are determined by what you search and browse for... So it's kind of your fault
@@Solnoric That's the most backwards ass logic I have ever read.
Use VPN location Norway
Great story and keep them coming! Such bravery and courage from the Navy pilots. After watching this video my paper airplane grew a pair.
Awesome channel, always has great content keep up the great videos thank you very much for all you do!!!!
This channel has gotten so good!
Your videos get better every time. Thank you.
I like how the video has blue angel panthers when he is talking about the actual combat lol
in his defense, it's somewhat challenging to get actual Korean war footage. I'd be more nitpicky about the WW2 movie footage in there if I where going to nitpick.
My grandfather flew f100s in Korea and he said many times he heard Russian over the radios.
No he didn't. Ask again.
F100 in korea
Are you sure
F100s didn't become operational until after the Korean conflict ended. My father was in 86s during the conflict and transitioned into the 100s shortly thereafter.
Enjoyed this thank you 👍
Well I am amazed DD just amazed I have never heard of this and find it ....amazing :) Thank you so much!
Thanks for this vid!!
Kick ass, that was a good one!
How did I miss this!? Dark! ! Hard working TH-camr 🤗
The quality of US aircrews was (and to this day is) far better than the Soviets, the ladder preferring much more strict group cohesion compared to the US’s “do everything in your power as an individual to win”.
Jose Raul Miguens Cruz
Ah yes, that 15-to-1 air-to-air kill ratio in favor of the United States really says a lot about Soviet crews and those they trained. Thank you for reminding me that communists can’t be angels, let alone have wings.
@Jose Raul Miguens Cruz yeah and they lose to american pilots
I love how the first photo of an f9f he showed was a prototype with a nose turret that I'm pretty sure never saw active combat
Drinking game, every time Dark Docs says "Quote" have a drink
But I like having a working liver... 😟
i love your channel, keep doing it!
nice video footage of USS Bainbridge and Enterprise, which weren't in service until years after the Korean war.
and a view of a F4 Phantom preparing to deck, did not exist in 1950
Mark Felton and dark docs should be shown in school I love them
i am supposed to take a nap but Dark Docs and Mark Fellton pop-up
ONE OF THE FEW channels I drop everything and click on !!
Fuck yeah, I watch Mark Felton stuff as well.
Any love for curious droid?
@@johnnyyen4910 I like that guy !! he's been around for a long time !!
Damn Clicked the Bell Icon for all these 3 guys!😄
Excellent video.
I believe it is pronounced Or-RISK-a-nee. (Oriskany).
OG Dark Docs, right on!
The cannon on the MiG-15 were two different sizes, 23mm and 37mm, each with its own ballistics. The correct aiming point for one was not the same for the other and the Russian sights were not radar ranging like the F-86's. The big 37mm was designed to shoot down bombers, allegedly one or two hits could knock down a bomber, hitting something smaller like a fighter with it was not easy.
Great production DD team..
Great work.. kool aircrafts dude!!!!
I love them early jet fighter's
The F9F Panther-- built on Long Island by my Dad and the immortal Grumman Iron Works.
1 Panther vs 6 Soviet MiG-15s piloted most likely by veterans of World War 2. That's one hell of a fight and to think he downed 3 of them and caused the 4th to crash just before landing then landed his critically damaged aircraft in a textbook number 3 wire catch. Definitely one of the best and really goes to show just how well trained American pilots were. The disastrous first year of World War 2 really left its mark. Never again would half trained American pilots be forced to fight in inferior aircraft against well trained enemy pilots flying substantially superior aircraft.
What "disastrous 1st year of WW2" would that be then.? WW2 didn't really get under way for America until 1942, by then the war had been running for the best part of 3 years.!!
you talking about the f4f vs zero? because that lead to the thatch weave...
they wernt half trained, the US thought they wouldnt come up against something like the zero
Then please explain Vietnam and the need to start the Top Gun school and Red Flag.
except in this very encounter there were American INFERIOR aircraft going against substantially superior Russian ones ... Panther was absolute garbage jet for its time exactly the same as F4F was inferior to the Zero ...
Joseph King US fighter and pilot doctrine leaning more towards high speed interceptors and interception agaisnt high altitude bombers carrying nuclear weapons. It’s a fair doctrine for the time which almost every country has adopted the f-4 phantom and even the mig 21 didn’t need a gun since missles were faster in reaching those high altitude bombers. Vietnam’s air war was simply something our pilots weren’t trained and aircraft not meant for.
love your videos
8:50 That picture is awesome!
Thanks Dark for the...Super great Docs....War is man's greatest invention....!
Love your video's!
Cool story. I enjoyed that one 😎👍
The American aircraft is the F9F-5 Panther. Designation comes before name.
The MiG-15 did have the advantage in sheer firepower, but the cannons were poor as ballistic matches. Yes, they did hit very hard, but sometimes the 23s would go over the target while the heavy 37mm shell dropped below.
Wow, an incredible story of amazing an amazing aviator!
GREAT STORY !!!! THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EFFORT !!!👍👍
DARK DOCS! 1 of my Favs BABY!
✈️ 🚁💣👁🌂🕸🚀🛩🚢🗺🗿📽📟⏰💸🧬💉
ok am I the only one to wonder why the P-80s and f-86s keep showing up? not to mention the p-51 and a demon on approach?
In the first year of the Korean War, my dad was in the RAAF flying P-51's, until the Mig 15's showed up and shot down the CO of 77 Squadron. Most prop planes were grounded after these red star Migs arrived.
Awesome!!🏆
Holy shit!! Taking down 4 MiG-15s on a Panther is like taking out 4 F-22s flying an F-16. This guy is unreal!! Then again, American kill ratio with the F-86s later on was 10:1, so definitely skills were a major factor, plus he’s a naval aviator, those are a special breed.
Everyone talks about the Oriskany pronunciation, but nobody noticed that the first image of the panther we see is a real obscure experimental variant with the Emerson AERO X17A fighter nose turret, with radar tracking and 360 degrees rotation as well as 240 degrees swivel, of which only 1 was built.
The O-ris-ka-ny was sunk in the Gulf of Mexico few years ago to become an artificial reef. It is also a popular wreck dive. I will be diving and paying my respects to the Big O soon.
Very interesting Panther @ 0:07!! F9F-3 BuNo122562 with experimental high angle firing Emerson gun turret. Could work on pronunciation. Also some of the "historical" vid shows WWII fighter combat, early 1960s USS Enterprise (CVN-65), USS Long Beach and F-4 Phantom II. Cheers!
I noticed the guns high angle thanks for answer was going to ask why the guns were pointed upwards
Pretty darned impressive if you ask me.
It's pronounced Or-Risk-Kenny. Oriskeny was the last Essex Class carrier to complete construction. And was launched after WWII ended and it had a long career before being retired. It was sunk to create an artificial reef.
US Navy pilots are the finest in the world for a reason. What a fantastic story, glad it got a chance to see the light of day.
Heads up Oriskany is pronounced:
"OH riss cah nee"
Oh-RIS-kan-ee.
Exactly, the narrator is obviously not that well researched or too young to have met anybody from that ship, but I know a guy who served on the Oriskany from 1974-77; Aircraft Ordinance...
I figured I wasn't the only one to notice the pronunciation. I believe you can still visit this ship, with some diving gear!
He butchered that pronunciation🤣
It's like nails down a blackboard every time he says it. Errrrrrrrr
According to the ratio of all downed aircraft, it turns out 1200 Americans against 330 Soviets, but 1200 also includes those shot down by air defense systems, but even with this we can say with confidence that the MiG fighter was very effective.
That was RAD!
Just before the 8 minute mark the cruiser shown is USS Longbeach and the aircraft carrier is the USS Enterprise, both of which weren't built until after the Korean war had finished.
Tbh, I would have been way more astonished if those red star MIGs actually we're not present in the Korean War
Oriskany CVA-34. emphasis on "risk" It sounds like: Or - risk - kany. A great carrier, home ported in San Diego in the early '60s. I have just recently discovered your channel and I think you are doing an outstanding job. :-) :-)
Wow, that fighter jet camera footage is WAY clearer than any "ufo" footage of today.
I LOVE YOUR CHANNELS
Awesome.
Just a note on USS Oriskany = Or-ISK-uh-nee.
Great vid.
Is that the carrier John McCain destroyed?
@@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu Yeah, the one he lit up.
IT HAD A TERRIBLE FIRE !!
@@TOMAS-lh4er It had a terrible American and terrible pilot shooting Zuni rockets all over the loaded flight deck. ...and that's before the 1000 lb. bombs cooked off and killed wave after wave of firefighters.
@@Minong_Manitou_Mishepeshu I enlisted in the US NAVY not long after that happened , and in my "A" school (DC) they showed us the film from the bridge . at fire fighting school !! SEN. JOHN McCAIN was a pilot on that ship !and almost got killed .
Back when the ussr crashed and a few years after, i was playing a fighter game, called fighter ace. met a couple real russian fighter pilots who were playing. They gave me a web addy that lead to a page that listed the russians who claimed kills in the korean war. There were over 100 of them. Listed dates and claims. It would have been very possible to check our records against theirs. I didnt as i saw no need for it, the admission was enough for me. so yeah a good us navy aviator against 7 and he won? of course he did! the russians never did fly them planes right against us types. tother wise we wouldnt have killed as many as we did.
Wow that must have been very cool. Still have the info?
link of web please?
Sir u work really hard I salute you for all this thanks love you sir great respect for you sir..thanks for ur Channel
U.S. Navy Pilot with 4 Mig-15 Air to Air Victories in One Mission , Should Got the Navy Cross Medal, Good Show.
From Wikipedia
'It is believed that Soviet pilots (who all flew MiG-15s) shot down 142-1,106 UN aircraft (depending on whose estimate is used) during the duration of the war, a higher kill total than that of comparable UN units'
At the time, carrier based jets were generally inferior to land based jets. My father was a naval aviator at the time (not deployed to Korea) and he hated the "Panther". My father in law (also a naval aviator at the time) asked for a transfer rather than have to fly it.
This was a damn good story!
So this is where the Top Gun story for Maverick's dad originated...
what an amazing story. GJ
wow it fires 16 tons of ammunition per second
how many tons of ammunition were carried on the aircraft
My thoughts exactly lol
try and listen...he said 16 pounds.
Dude said pounds
The USS Helena was played by the USS Long Beach (CGN-9) in this episode.
So most of our aircraft in 50's and 60's were crap. 1 out of 4 were good.... Great job to the pilot!
Korea is something. Jet dogfighting like WW2, the end of an era really. Dog fights are a thing of the past
Vietnam? Falkland Islands(Harriers vs Mirage, A-4, etc.)?DS/DS(F-15 vs MIG29)? Greek Mirage vs Turkish F-16 '86? BVR is more prevalent due to technological advances and is another "tool" in the toolbox, but BFM/ACM still dictates the merge and events thereafter. The phone booth and knives just grew larger.
I agree,sabre v mig15 is interesting
Fox3. boring
Fox2. boring
Fox1. boring
guns guns guns, now your talking.
@@garyhewitt489 I seriously doubt that any situation that requires an aviator/ pilot launching any type of AAM could be considered "boring" by any stretch of imagination. Especially, since your own personal life isn't on the line. Listen much more attentively to some of the AV recordings, they are all about a few seconds of either needing a change of shorts or not needing them anymore. Ever.
Famous last words. Remind me how that worked out the last two or three times people made that proclamation.
Every year people claim the end of the of the dogfight. They have been claiming this since the end of ww1.
The older smaller plane had the advantage of mass and a very good brave pilot against bigger size more technically advanced planes with really good pilots too.
The achievement is beyond impressive: those were not rookie Soviet pilots, they were instructors or a real soviet squadron doing live tests of a variant of the mig15.
This is a huge stunt lol... I remember hearing Brigadier General Charles “Chuck” Yeager speak about this a few decades ago, recently of course. “Great fighter pilot”
The ship at 8:05 looks like USS Long Beach CGN-9
Astounding.
The picture of the F9F you showed is an experimental model, that nose turret was designed to hit bombers using radar guidance. Most panthers had 6 fixed 20mm guns
Its funny how useless it was at the time lol. Cus around then i think guided missiles were being developed
4 you mean?
Korea wasn't just a American affair. The British Fleet Air Arm sent up piston engined planes against Migs over Korea and they had quite a few successful sorties, due largely to the manoeuvrability of the Sea Furies which were less the 90 mph slower than the Migs apparently. The Migs just lacked the agility needed to maintain contact and tended to leave themselves vulnerable to counter attacks.
Sea Fury’s were over 150 mph slower than Mig-15’s.
My boy clutched tf up pulled off a squad wipe and go the hell out of dodge
It MIGHT HAVE BEEN YOUR Channel that said the soviet pilots got frustrated try not to speak Russian on radio , and would get excited and be on air for everyone to hear !! " OOOPS !"