Full review of Legion 5 Pro is here! th-cam.com/video/HIm8vTualEE/w-d-xo.html I've also tested x8 and x16 memory with DDR5 in 2022 to see if it matters as much as in this video: th-cam.com/video/v8g1_fjmReM/w-d-xo.html
Better yet don't buy a Legion 5 Pro, sigh... I always buy the worst products. All Legion 5 Pro's are basically defective. Even last years legion 5 supposedly had better memory.
In China, the issue is disclosed on 03/30 when Lenovo first launched R9000P. No surprise to me. Till now, all models shipped in China are 4 bank group (2sides), no this issue. Quite a information gap!
OMG this guy is unbelievable. he's got to be the best at it!! REVIEWS TO THE TINIEST DETAILS.... Or better, Reviews how they should be Thank you for this quality
I love a lot of hardware/laptop review youtubers, but this is definitely something that would only be detected and covered on your channel. Amazing amazing stuff, thank you so much for providing this information!
It's because of different bank groups of RAM. 2BG and 4BG, Ryzen runs a lot better on 4BG. You can check your RAM's model by software such as AIDA64, or MemTest 64. For Legion 5 pro. two models of RAM were used: M471A1G44AB0-CWE is of 2BG, and M471A1K43DB1-CWE is of 4BG.
To explain this, you need to understand that a “memory rank” is a 64-bit row of memory chips on a memory module. 2R = two memory ranks per module. 1R = one memory rank per module. 2R memory is often called “dual sided”, as the chips for the different ranks are usually put on opposite faces of the module. Dual rank memory (e.g. 2Rx16) has lower latency than single rank memory, because the memory ranks can be accessed independently. Because RAM needs to regularly be refreshed, and all the data in a rank refreshes at the same time, having two memory ranks allows data to be written or read from one of the ranks while the other rank of the channel is refreshing, which means the CPU doesn’t need to wait for the memory to complete its refresh before writing data, as it can switch to the other rank. This way of switching between ranks between refreshes is called “interleaving”. Interleaving reduces latency and improves memory performance, but it also puts additional stress on the CPU’s integrated memory controller, which has to directly manage the interleaving process. Because of this, some older CPUs with weak memory controllers cannot run dual rank memory at the same frequency as single rank. There is a trade off between frequency and latency when choosing between dual-rank and single-rank memory. For modern CPUs (e.g. Ryzen 3000-series and newer, Intel 8th gen and newer) dual rank memory is usually best, as these CPUs can easily manage interleaving for dual-rank memory at high speeds (4000MHz+). If you have a motherboard with 4 memory slots, memory ranks can be interleaved between separate modules - for example, if you install 4 single-rank memory modules, you will have two channels with 2 memory ranks each, and you will get the same performance benefits as with 2 dual-rank modules. You can run triple-rank by using two 1R modules and two 2R modules, or quad-rank using four 2R modules, though the performance benefits from going above 2 ranks per channel is minimal, and it puts additional stress on the memory controller. The x8 or x16 refers to the bus width of the individual memory chips, and is related to the arrangement of the internal memory banks. As each rank is 64 bits, a 1Rx8 memory module will have 64/8=8 memory chips on it, and a 1Rx16 memory module will have 64/16=4 memory chips on it. Modules using x16 chips are usually cheaper but almost always slower than those using x8, due to having fewer banks, which effectively increases latency and reduces bandwidth because accessing data in different banks is faster than accessing data in the same bank, and also due to the use of higher-density nodes with lower manufacturing costs but worse stability at low latencies and high clock speeds.
@@igronDCi like how dude above has wrote the massive explanation text about haw ram works and that you appeared «naah, tldr. Long story short 2rx8 > 1rx8 > 1rx16»
One of the big reasons the performance is so different between these two memory kits is exactly the 1Rx8 vs 1Rx16 nature of the kits. This in particular relates to the bank group architecture used in DDR4. The short answer is that by only using 4 chips, each chip needs to provide 16 bits of data rather than 8, this reduces the amount of parallelism that is available within each chip and thereby driving up the latency of consecutive accesses. The longer timings certainly don't help, but they don't make all the difference. The long answer is that when running in x16 mode DDR4 chips normally run with 2 bank groups, this is in contrast to the 4 bank groups when operating in x4 or x8 mode. Bank groups allow DDR4 to increase parallelism by having multiple independent sets of banks muxed together. By ping ponging between the different banks on consecutive accesses the memory will use the tRRD_S timing, when accessing the same bank group, tRRD_L needs to be used. Having 4 bank groups gives you a 75% chance of being able to hit a different bank group whereas 2 bank groups only allows for 50% chance, sustaining long strings of RRD_S hits is even more in favour of the 4 bank group setup. For example: An access pattern BG0 BG1 BG3 BG1 BG2 BG3 would only hit RRD_S, there are many other possible access patterns of the bank groups that will only hit RRD_S, on the other hand the only access pattern that will exclusively hit RRD_S on 2 bank groups is BG0 BG1 BG0 BG1... It is also easier in terms of data mapping with potentially branching access patterns to guarantee hitting a different bank group on the next access. In short, don't buy memory with only 4 chips on it.
@@chris2214 2R, it means dual rank, see Hardware Unboxed among others for some testing of dual rank performance on desktop. There are similar gains when using JEDEC speed memory in dual rank over single rank.
Thanks for the thorough explanation! Quick question: if you pause the video at 2:52, you can see that both the x8 and x16 RAM sticks have 4 chips... or is the x8 stick dual-sided and hold another 4 chips on its hidden side?
The length of what you went through to thoroughly test this and the collegiality shown is something to respect forever. Hat off to you sir, you deserve a lot more for your continued efforts. Thank you from all of us simps. Just... Wow.
This channel deserves millions of subscribers. I learned so much and I am so impressed with the presentation and how analytical and well-thought out everything is!!! Thank you!
Nice video Jarrod. I really appreciate the thorough investigation. This type of attention to nuances and details ensures that we get the best bang for the buck. Not many people have time or expertise to go through datasheets, so thank you for spoiling us with such useful information. :)
I have the same laptop with 32GB RAM instead of 16 you use in this video. I also did the benchmarks of Shadow of The Tomb Raider, Farcry 5 and Battlefield 5 and got the same results you got with the new RAM. So there might be an issue in the 16GB configuration. Also here are the results from the ZenTimings software: tRRDS: 4, tRRDL: 8, tFAW: 34, tRFC(ns): 550, tRFC: 880, tRFC2: 560, tRFC4: 416, tSTAG: 9. I hope someone finds this information helpful.
I also tested Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I got 122 FPS in shadow of the tomb raider with stock RAM (32Gb) so also same as the better RAM. A shame that Jarrod makes it sound like the 32Gb version also suffers from the same performance loss. I've read a few comments of people with 32Gb RAM buying new memory for no reason because of this video.
Thanks Jared for the thorough investigation on this. Never seen changing memory kit for laptop with same speed and latency bringing that much performance difference. May be a deliberate attempt by Lenovo to downplay Legion 5 series compared to 7 series. Would you be checking this for the Omen 15 as well?
Cheers for discovering this Jarod! I tried grid autosport was getting average of 100fps and minimum of 72fps. Upgraded to some Kingston hyperX and my average FPS was 115fps and lows of 95fps
BETTER set of RAMs on LenovoUSA Hey Guys. Just letting you know on the RAM of my unit. I recently got mine on LenovoUSA. 2 x 1TB with RTX3070 16gbRAM. Glad that I got a different set of RAMs. tRFC(ns),tRFC,tRFC2,tRFC4 on mine is the same as Jarrod's. I wont be changing RAM anytime soon. :) Stock RAM: Instead of one 1Rx16, I got two, 1Rx8. Manufacturer: Micron Technology, 8GB 3200Mhz Single Rank Part Number: 4ATF1G64HZ-3G2E2
Hi there! Really appreciate your video. You mentioned in the video that you weren't sure whether the performance increase was related more to the extended timings vs. the upgrade to 1rx8. I can confirm that it's almost entirely from the 1x8. Got a new Lenovo Legion 5 Pro with low tRFC 1rx16 memory (HMAA1GS6CJR6N-XN). Nearly a 10% CPU bench performance increase when upgrading to 1rx8 with identical timings (only difference was CL 22 -> 20).
My Legion 5 arrived yesterday, il be swapping out the RAM and getting the performance boost thanks to you. Just another reason why im now a patron. Your the best laptop reviewer there is.
Thank you for sharing this info! I also have the 2021 Lenovo Legion 5 with the 3060 and a 5800H. My device also comes with the same Ram Memory as your device, mine is purchased from UAE. With your video now I am trying to find a suitable Ram Memory preferably a 32GB version.
Upgraded to 32Gb of Timetec RAM. It's weird as it's definitely faster than the Samsung with the same TRFcs. All other values seen at 2:34 are faster (like 30% lower on avg). Passmark's Memory Mark gave me a 51% for the Samsung sticks where as the Timetec bumps it up tp 65%. So I think I'll settle with the Timetec for now. Crucial's stocks seem a bit low in Canada.
I know this is a year old, but just got a L5pro on the cheap and yeah, huge boost in min FPS after I followed the advice here and got some 2rx8 RAM. Thanks mate.
Hey, thanks for your advise. I followed the same tip for my Asus TUF A15 2021, which had the same slow Samsung RAM. I upgraded it to Crucials CT8G4SFRA32A which comes as dual rank and even better tRFC timings. The increase in performance is insane! I never thought that this tiny details can mean so much. Thanks again!
@@shycreation9418 Well it did for me. But it depends on the limiting factor. If its the GPU you wont get much more FPS by switching the RAM. If its not the GPU and you are using the slow retail RAM, iam pretty sure you will get some more FPS.
For what it's worth - I purchased the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro 32gb/3070 from Lenovo Australia, and the timings in ZenTimings is showing the same was your 'My New Memory' @ 2:32 - So it doesn't appear to be an issue anymore/with Australian variants. Copped it for
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Hello can you send here your Lenovo Legion 5 PRO producent code? For example 82JD00EAPB.
I just got my legion 5 pro with 32 GB RAM (ordered in Germany) and my original memory has exactly the same timings as your upgraded memory. It seems that this is not a problem for all models.
Hello, thank you for (probably) being the first one to point out that potential problem, Jarrod! :) I'm currently located in Germany, got my Legion 5 Pro via campuspoint and my stock ram appears to have the same specs as the new ram you tested. Frame times look fine as well (more or less). Hope that might help some of you :)
I updated my Aorus 15P XC 10th gen with 3070 from 16GB (2x8 1rx16 ) to 32GB (2x16 2rx8) and the uplift in FPS (11 games tested) is on avg 9.42%. The biggest gain came with Horizon Zero Dawn at around 13%. So it works :)
Happy I put the exact same ram upgrade in my 5p runs so good!! 2x8gb crucial perfect! Definitely noticed it runs better than other exact laptops I’ve seen and I think this must be why!
Makes me wonder if the better memory SKU was intentionally used in the legion 7 to create greater differentiation between the performance of the similarly speccd models. I'm not a laptop guy but considering it for the future... Is there no advance overclocking options for memory on laptops for things like sub timings?
I'm still getting this with stock memory sticks, and maybe swapping them out later. A 10 fps difference for me is not that big of a deal when we're already getting around 120fps. A laptop has other benefits than just getting the highest fps. Anyway thank you so much Jarrod!
@@hectorgomez401 That 1% lows is just 1% of the time of that particular benchmark test. The other 99% of the time, game performs quite well. For example, let's say the max fps you get is 300 fps. Sounds great? Every 2 seconds, there is a dip to 20 fps. So, the min fps is 20, and max is 300. The average could still be very high, sounds really good but it isn't. 1% low is telling us that the worst 1% of the time, the game gets 112 fps. It really won't matter at High FPS. Maybe matters for an Esports gamer.
@@aryank3014 Improving 1% lows is much more important then improving overall average FPS because 1% lows are the big drops that feel like stuttering when you play, so boosting them gives smoother gameplay.
As did I, just went to Microcenter and bought the Legion 5 (non-Pro) with the 3060 and 1TB SSD ($1,299 USD), it has 16 GB and I planned to upgrade to 32 GB anyway so the RAM timings issue I found via these videos when researching the laptop was a non-issue for me since I know I will only be living with it for a short time until I can do the RAM upgrade.
Just received my Legion 7 with the 3080 and the 5800h this had exactly the same slower ram as you have reported. This laptop was bought in the UK. Update I replaced the memory with the CT2K16G4SFRA32A kit timings are exactly the same as your new memory. Thanks for the tip.
It is due to manufacturer. Not an issue for Lenovo (i.e. Asus Tuf 15 was bashed so badly in Asia when the RTX3060/3070 version were released earlier this year). The new 8GB RAM module is all 4 BG RAM now. It is what it is... . only RAM modules manufactured prior to mid 2020 have RAM chips on both side. Only Mainland China market for the first batch of Legion 5/5 Pro/7 got 8 Bank Group RAM. The rumor was that Lenovo's manufacturing plant in Hefei China had to place "old" RAM modules (therefore have dual RAM chips on the stick itself) to this batch. Since all RAM manufacturers have moved onto single side 4BG modules for 8GB RAM, there seems to be only two solutions: 1) buy 2 X 16GB module as those will guarantee to be 8 BG; or 2) buy second hand 8GB module
Great video! I got my Legion 5 Pro just 4 days ago. Can't Lenovo maybe fix this issue with an update or so? Because changing RAMs and paying 180 € extra defeats the purpose of this laptop being reasonably priced!!! Did Lenovo comment on this mysterious issue?
Great work jarrod! I never expected similar memory to perform so different from each other, this raises a question How many more laptops can benefit from better memory since we don't know what kind of memory other OEMs have put in their laptops
That explains a lot. I immediately swapped out my ram for 2 32gb sticks when I bought my legion 5 pro so I never noticed it was being bottlenecked by the memory. That's very informative.
@@fantastic2671 I got this exact model number on Amazon. Patriot Memory DDR4 3200MHz PC4-25600 32GB SODIMM Laptop Memory Lifetime Warranty PSD432G32002S
@@fantastic2671 My 32Gb model got 122 FPS in shadows of the tomb raider, the best laptop on the list got 123 FPS. So I don't think you need to upgrade RAM on the 32 Gb model. For some strange reason the 32Gb model does perform better. (I've been spamming this everywhere after testing, lol). But no need to waste your money, unless you need more than 32Gb.
@@atnfn one thing to note is that having more ram increases gaming performance, especially on ryzen laptops, so you still might get better results with new and better memory than the stock ram but as you said it’s already performing great so no need to waste money. Also thank you for spreading the message
@@mingyi456 The 32Gb model does not suffer from this performance loss, I tested it myself got 122 FPS in shadows of the tomb raider at 1080p high, higher than Jarrod's 111FPS.
Really superb videos. Sometimes I find the speed of speech delivery a fraction too fast, but really excellent in depth work and production. Congratulations and thanks to Jarrod.
Its true :-) The 1Rx16 modules have significantly lower bandwidth compared to the 1Rx8 variants. The more bank groups a memory module has, the higher the bandwidth is. Contrary to what the naming convention may suggest, the single rank x8 modules have twice as many bank groups compared to the single rank x16 variants.
When it usually comes to laptop memory, its important to note that all 32GB are always dual rank at 3200MT/s. So its never worth it upgrading 32GB laptops to some "faster" memory because they wont be faster even if you go from CL22 to CL18 JEDEC, difference is minimal, but if your laptop supports XMP configuration then SO-DIMM CL14 3200MT/s memory does in fact exist.
@@woomygamer642 I think the performance is fantastic. I mean, you wont get current gen Desktop performance out of it of course, but its still really really good IMO.
@@markmichaels5835 just bought it yesterday, I'm interested as well. I'm waiting to buy a new RAM as I want to test it first, some regions are lucky and got a better one, I live in Italy. Tomorrow it'll get here and I'll know what to do.
@@lambdacode1503 I did some digging and found the HX432s20IB2K2/32 by hyper impact, increased performance by 13% and its 32. Might be worth a look. I already put an order in so I can report back.
Interestingly, my stock ram is the exact same one as your new ram (with memory Lenovo written on the back). Same logo, same letters, and same chips placement. I bought it sealed and brand new from Lenovo.
Can I say that the memory problem is fixed? It's because it is. It was an issue with the first release of the Legion 5 Pro. Now the memory has decent secondary timings.
Thanks for this info, I appreciate it. Do you think Legion 5 (non-pro version) has the same problem? I bought the 17 inch version. At this point I'm fine but one day when I start noticing slowdowns, I know RAM is worthy of an upgrade.
For anyone who reads this. I recently purchased a Legion 7 (2021) and it also has the slow memory (the one shown here for the Legion 5 Pro). My Legion 7 is configured with a Ryzen 7 5800H, 32GB RAM & 3070. So just to put it out there, I think the difference is not related to the model "Legion 5 Pro" or "Legion 7", but more having to do with the chosen CPU (5900HX vs 5800H). Now, not all of the timings are the same, some are lower, but tRFC (ns), tRFC, tRFC2 & tRFC4 are the same as the slower one.
Just to put some more information out there, I just bought the Legion 7 with a Ryzen 5800H, two terabytes of memory, a RTX 3070, and 32 gigs of RAM for a little over 2k. This machine is a beast for one thing and has a beautiful display. Getting to the point, the 32 gigs of RAM in mine are identical to the new sticks (faster ones) that you put in the Legion 5 Pro this episode. Ive seen some folks saying the Legion 7 also has the slower memory and I'm thinking that could be true, for models with less than 32 gigs. Just something I wanted to know before I ordered but couldn't find any information on it.
My 32GB dual rank kit will be here in two days, wish I knew how to do all these benchmark tests so I can provide a little bit more info for yall but I'm very new to owning a "gaming laptop" (which I dont even game on lol) so my testing and benchmark knowledge is very limited
I tested my 32Gb model in shadows of the tomb raider at 1080p High. I got 122 FPS. (Jarrod got 111 FPS, the best 3070 laptop on the list got 123 FPS) For whatever reason the 32Gb model does perform better. I was sceptical when I heard people say the 32Gb model performs better, so I had to test it myself. I've watched reviews before and having 32Gb rather than 16Gb never makes any difference. But somehow in this laptop it does. Perhaps the 2x16Gb models have more chips on them I guess and that somehow improves things. I have no idea. All I know it seems what people say that the 32Gb model performs better is true.
@@atnfn hope you are right..I just ordered 32gb version last week. If only Jarrod post this earlier, I would bought 8 gb ram stock and buy two newer and better ram which would save me money 💰💰
@@nuraizayoi3319 Well I'm half right. I tested with wrong settings, high instead of highest. There actually is a performance loss on the 32gb model as well. But it isn't as big, on highest I got 118fps. Better than 111fps on the 16gb model, but not as good as with better ram. Unless when he said highest he actually meant with all settings maxed. Cause the highest preset doesn't actually max all settings. But I think the performance drop is way too big if you max all settings, so I don't think he meant that.
Did some digging on this. From the Video, looks like the Legion 5 Pro has 4 chips baked in the module, 2GB each whereas the Crucial Module has 8 chips which means each of them has 1GB of memory. I think the performance difference is coming due to Memory Bank configuration (not to be confused with Memory Rank). Normally each of those chips are divided to multiple Banks and some of the banks from each chip makes a Bank group for the whole DIMM. This increased the parallel read and write capacity in the DRAM chip as Memory controller can access one row for each Bank Group parallelly. So, if a memory has more number of Bank Groups, with each group having less number of banks, the parallel read and write capacity increases. From those two memories, it looks like that the Crucial Memory having more number of chips (8GB is divided into 8 one GB chip vs 4 two GB chips in original Ram) and high chance that it has more number of Rank Groups. I have also checked Crucial official site and they mentioned to have 1024MB Chip size.
Question: Can I still get the max performance, if I use both the stock ram and new ram together, or do you need to replace the old ram with the new ram completely.
if you mix RAM the best case scenario is you run at the slower timings, worst case it won't boot and middle of the road case it runs at like 2133 Mhz's instead of 3200 Mhz.
@@Zentrious i have the l5pro and if you were wondering I have the same results as the new ram in the video with my stock ram. So either i was lucky or they fixed the ram problems.
Mine is bought here in Denmark (3070/16gb model) and have the exact same timings with the only exception that one of the sticks have a tRDWR value of 10 instead of 11 that your sticks and the other of mine have. I’m glad I didn’t shell out the extra cash for the 32 gb model - now I can upgrade to some better quality ram sticks myself. I love my Legion 5 Pro, so this is only gonna make it even better. 😎 Edit: I’m working on flashing a unlocked BIOS and it seems that this gives access to memory timings and a lot of other advanced options. I of course don’t recommend this to people who don’t have experience with a flasher but if you are it’s probably possible to get better performance with the existing RAM modules by tweaking the timings in the unlocked BIOS.
On my 32GB Ram model i have combinations of both timings from your two different memory, tRFC from your stock, but every other timing from your new memory. Wierd
I am a Korean gamer who enjoys your channel. I'm using two laptops with Cezanne and Tiger Lake. Can you compare the difference between single rank and dual rank memory in this new cpu? This time, I bought a hyperx impect ddr4 16g 3200 cl20 dual kit product. When I checked the product specification, it said 1r*8 2g*64bit. I think it's a single rank. The story that the dual rank is good on this new cpu is an issue in the Korean community. Due to this video, this video is very hot in the Korean community and I will wait for your reply.
@Jarrod’sTech thank you for making this video! I ordered the Legion 7 with an RTX 3070 and AMD R7 5800H. I opened it up to check the memory and surely enough mine came with the 1rx16 memory. So I was able to switch it with better memory for a performance boost.
If you look at some photos, seems like the 2021 legion 5 (non pro) has last year's ColdFront 2.0 thermal system. Which makes me wonder how it will handle the optional 3070 gpu
@@azuraligthfeilt is it gonna be that bad in terms of thermals? If so the 1660ti or 2060 are better options? Sorry it's my first time to buy a laptop so i just want to be sure 😅
@@ciscasaclang3378 I'm not sure. So far, I haven't find any Legion 5 2021 review that has enough detail to give a comprehensive and objective conclusion. Last year's Legion 5 seems to handle 2060 well. I'm confident that the Legion 5 2021 will be able to handle 3060 just fine. But, I can't say for sure with the 3070. If I remember correctly, Lenovo did set the 3070 on Legion 5 (non-pro) to 130W which givez us hope that the CF 2.0 system *might* be able to handle the 3070 with formidable performance and minimum throttling. But, I honestly can't say 100% for sure.
This could've been fixed to some degree if they provided the option to tighten the timings in the BIOS like some other OEMs (MSI, sweaty laptop brands, etc)
IIRC no AMD Cezane laptop has RAM timings editable in their BIOS. I have a Tongfang laptop: Intel variant do have the timings, but AMD variant of the exact same model has not (presumably as the Zen3 Integrated Memory Controller forbids any change). The examples you provide are likely Intel variants..
Just checked my one month old L5 pro RTX3060 32GB and stock it already has got the memory with the faster timing, just like in your "New RAM" table. (tRFC 350ns, tRFC 560) Really happy with it, it's a great laptop for my CAD/CAM purposes!
He showed some people got the stock 32 GB RAM Lenovo sticks with same lower spec tRFC so I think it's not that easy to give you suggestion on that. Probably the one shown @4:25 on the right should be fine: P/N KHX3200C20S4 I guess.
I went 2x16 dual rank hyperX impact. They are cl20 jedec spec so a little tighter timings. Any faster ram (cl18) wont help as that is xmp profile, and not supported.
@@SYmotgang last I checked, Lenovo used insyde bios for their gaming laptops. Unlocking the full range of options only requires modifying some firmware EC bits, a lot of guys on bios modding forums do it, quite easy.
Interesting findings. I installed that software on my Legion 5 (from last year with 4800H and 1660 Ti) and the timings are exactly the same as the ones from the second memory kit you installed (the better one). The entire first two columns are identical. And these are the stock 2x8GB sticks that came with it. Thaiphoon Burner shows it's made by Ramaxel, and with Micron chips, same as yours and also 16 banks. I wonder if last years Legion 5 also had the same RAM timings discrepancy according to RAM supplier.
somehow i doubt it, as it would make the other models perform worse than similar specced laptops from other vendors. I guess thay got a really good price on that OEM samsung ram and just went for it.
Got my 82JQCTO1WW model today, which is the Stingray white version. Spec: 32GB 5600 3060 1TB SSD. I tested the ram it shipped with and all timings are the same as Jerrod's good ram. Very happy. The white version is really nice, so pleased I took a gamble on that since nobody seems to have one for video review beforehand.
Impressive testing and follow up! I wish more notebookproducers would give users access to ram-tweaking. On my old clevo P651 (i7 6700hq and 1070) I had full access and overclocked the stock ram from 2133cl15 to 2400cl14 and lowered tRFC and a few others. 5-15% higher fps depending on game/setting. Holding ctrl+f while booting reset bios to default if I tweaked too far.
actually, in China, Lenovo has assured that the early batches of legion 5/5pro/7（which in China is R7000P/R9000P/R9000K）will be guaranteed to ship with 4 bank-group memory, but the later batches might come with mixed memory which means it could be either 2BG or 4BG. it do affects the machines' performance and was widely mentioned in many Chinese reviews.
Wooooo greetings from Singapore thats my Zentimings!!!! Also on a side note from analyzing the ram problem in the discord: it seems that the simplest way to get the performance boost Jarrod got here is to have DOUBLE SIDED RAM. i upgraded my ram with 32gb of slow ram (1rx16 CL22 tRFC880) but still gained roughly 10% performance. ofc Kal with his faster ram had even more improvements but from my observations simply having ram chips on both sides of the stick gives most of the benefits
The space it takes up is so minor there is no value in saving physical space. As I said I have observed the performance across multiple legion 2021 owners over the 1+ month that I've had this laptop before coming to this conclusion
Have the Legion 5 pro in SG. Can confirm the same timings. I think I will not upgrade though, as the performance is still ok, and its a sweet upgrade to hold for later.
Just got a new kit of RAM to fix this right when mine comes in. These things are super cheap rn, just bought the fully specced version for $1650! Thanks for finding these things so consumers don’t have to 🙏
@@JarrodsTech Nice, I’ll have to see what I may or may not have missed on the Gen 7 line up. Super stoked with what I got, thanks again for the pointers and the good content bro
I guess only you are that kind of a person to question, analyse and try to solve.... I've just bought Legion 5 Pro and I will definitely try this out, thanks!
Full review of Legion 5 Pro is here! th-cam.com/video/HIm8vTualEE/w-d-xo.html
I've also tested x8 and x16 memory with DDR5 in 2022 to see if it matters as much as in this video: th-cam.com/video/v8g1_fjmReM/w-d-xo.html
Nice, Jarrod...
Can i have link to discord server
@@argamato in the description
This is an amazing find! Congratulations Jarrod.
I wonder if this issue occurs also on the regular legion 5 with the 3070
Great video. If you're buying the Legion 5 Pro, which many people are. You're going to want the best performance! Very helpful
Aah .. the legends converge
The big bros have agreed
REJOICE
Yeah, hoping for my cancellation confirmation email soon. 🤞🤞Getting the Infinity W5 with the 3070 instead. 👌
Thanks mate!
Better yet don't buy a Legion 5 Pro, sigh... I always buy the worst products. All Legion 5 Pro's are basically defective. Even last years legion 5 supposedly had better memory.
Only youtuber who mentionned the ram issue. Greatest Of All Time for a reason !
🥰
That's what I like most about his videos.
Definitely 👍🏽
GOAT!
In China, the issue is disclosed on 03/30 when Lenovo first launched R9000P. No surprise to me. Till now, all models shipped in China are 4 bank group (2sides), no this issue. Quite a information gap!
The Gerald Undone of laptops! Nice find and great explanation. = )
Hey matthew !
Haha cheers 😂
@@JarrodsTech when are you going to review some 3060 laptops?
OMG this guy is unbelievable. he's got to be the best at it!!
REVIEWS TO THE TINIEST DETAILS.... Or better, Reviews how they should be
Thank you for this quality
Cheers!
Now THIS is why we love you jarrod kek, just how youre able to find issues and show how to fix them
Good to hear it was useful!
This guy deserves more than a million subs.
I just want to thank you for your hard work. You are, imo, the best youtube channel for laptops.
I love a lot of hardware/laptop review youtubers, but this is definitely something that would only be detected and covered on your channel. Amazing amazing stuff, thank you so much for providing this information!
It's because of different bank groups of RAM. 2BG and 4BG, Ryzen runs a lot better on 4BG. You can check your RAM's model by software such as AIDA64, or MemTest 64. For Legion 5 pro. two models of RAM were used: M471A1G44AB0-CWE is of 2BG, and M471A1K43DB1-CWE is of 4BG.
To explain this, you need to understand that a “memory rank” is a 64-bit row of memory chips on a memory module. 2R = two memory ranks per module. 1R = one memory rank per module. 2R memory is often called “dual sided”, as the chips for the different ranks are usually put on opposite faces of the module.
Dual rank memory (e.g. 2Rx16) has lower latency than single rank memory, because the memory ranks can be accessed independently. Because RAM needs to regularly be refreshed, and all the data in a rank refreshes at the same time, having two memory ranks allows data to be written or read from one of the ranks while the other rank of the channel is refreshing, which means the CPU doesn’t need to wait for the memory to complete its refresh before writing data, as it can switch to the other rank. This way of switching between ranks between refreshes is called “interleaving”.
Interleaving reduces latency and improves memory performance, but it also puts additional stress on the CPU’s integrated memory controller, which has to directly manage the interleaving process. Because of this, some older CPUs with weak memory controllers cannot run dual rank memory at the same frequency as single rank. There is a trade off between frequency and latency when choosing between dual-rank and single-rank memory.
For modern CPUs (e.g. Ryzen 3000-series and newer, Intel 8th gen and newer) dual rank memory is usually best, as these CPUs can easily manage interleaving for dual-rank memory at high speeds (4000MHz+).
If you have a motherboard with 4 memory slots, memory ranks can be interleaved between separate modules - for example, if you install 4 single-rank memory modules, you will have two channels with 2 memory ranks each, and you will get the same performance benefits as with 2 dual-rank modules. You can run triple-rank by using two 1R modules and two 2R modules, or quad-rank using four 2R modules, though the performance benefits from going above 2 ranks per channel is minimal, and it puts additional stress on the memory controller.
The x8 or x16 refers to the bus width of the individual memory chips, and is related to the arrangement of the internal memory banks. As each rank is 64 bits, a 1Rx8 memory module will have 64/8=8 memory chips on it, and a 1Rx16 memory module will have 64/16=4 memory chips on it. Modules using x16 chips are usually cheaper but almost always slower than those using x8, due to having fewer banks, which effectively increases latency and reduces bandwidth because accessing data in different banks is faster than accessing data in the same bank, and also due to the use of higher-density nodes with lower manufacturing costs but worse stability at low latencies and high clock speeds.
@@Mr.Brownstone 2Rx8 > 1Rх8 > 1Rx16
@@igronDCi like how dude above has wrote the massive explanation text about haw ram works and that you appeared «naah, tldr. Long story short 2rx8 > 1rx8 > 1rx16»
One of the big reasons the performance is so different between these two memory kits is exactly the 1Rx8 vs 1Rx16 nature of the kits. This in particular relates to the bank group architecture used in DDR4. The short answer is that by only using 4 chips, each chip needs to provide 16 bits of data rather than 8, this reduces the amount of parallelism that is available within each chip and thereby driving up the latency of consecutive accesses. The longer timings certainly don't help, but they don't make all the difference.
The long answer is that when running in x16 mode DDR4 chips normally run with 2 bank groups, this is in contrast to the 4 bank groups when operating in x4 or x8 mode. Bank groups allow DDR4 to increase parallelism by having multiple independent sets of banks muxed together. By ping ponging between the different banks on consecutive accesses the memory will use the tRRD_S timing, when accessing the same bank group, tRRD_L needs to be used. Having 4 bank groups gives you a 75% chance of being able to hit a different bank group whereas 2 bank groups only allows for 50% chance, sustaining long strings of RRD_S hits is even more in favour of the 4 bank group setup. For example: An access pattern BG0 BG1 BG3 BG1 BG2 BG3 would only hit RRD_S, there are many other possible access patterns of the bank groups that will only hit RRD_S, on the other hand the only access pattern that will exclusively hit RRD_S on 2 bank groups is BG0 BG1 BG0 BG1... It is also easier in terms of data mapping with potentially branching access patterns to guarantee hitting a different bank group on the next access.
In short, don't buy memory with only 4 chips on it.
One more question:) which one will be better for this laptop? 1Rx8 or 2Rx8? I currently have 2Rx8 ram which runs at ddr4 2667mhz
@@chris2214 2R, it means dual rank, see Hardware Unboxed among others for some testing of dual rank performance on desktop. There are similar gains when using JEDEC speed memory in dual rank over single rank.
@@10ghznetburst 7 months later, but what is the best 16g kit for the legion 5 pro?
I have a legion 5 pro, how is the kingston FURY Impact, 32GB DDR4, 3200MHz CL20, Dual Channel Kit?? cost 200$
Thanks for the thorough explanation! Quick question: if you pause the video at 2:52, you can see that both the x8 and x16 RAM sticks have 4 chips... or is the x8 stick dual-sided and hold another 4 chips on its hidden side?
The length of what you went through to thoroughly test this and the collegiality shown is something to respect forever. Hat off to you sir, you deserve a lot more for your continued efforts. Thank you from all of us simps. Just... Wow.
You're a legend man. Thanks for your insight.
Jarrod, you are amazing! Thanks for taking the time to get to the bottom of this issue. Hopefully by Friday I'll have my L5P too.
Do you like it so far?
This channel deserves millions of subscribers. I learned so much and I am so impressed with the presentation and how analytical and well-thought out everything is!!! Thank you!
Nice video Jarrod. I really appreciate the thorough investigation. This type of attention to nuances and details ensures that we get the best bang for the buck. Not many people have time or expertise to go through datasheets, so thank you for spoiling us with such useful information. :)
I have the same laptop with 32GB RAM instead of 16 you use in this video. I also did the benchmarks of Shadow of The Tomb Raider, Farcry 5 and Battlefield 5 and got the same results you got with the new RAM. So there might be an issue in the 16GB configuration. Also here are the results from the ZenTimings software:
tRRDS: 4,
tRRDL: 8,
tFAW: 34,
tRFC(ns): 550,
tRFC: 880,
tRFC2: 560,
tRFC4: 416,
tSTAG: 9.
I hope someone finds this information helpful.
I also tested Shadow of the Tomb Raider. I got 122 FPS in shadow of the tomb raider with stock RAM (32Gb) so also same as the better RAM. A shame that Jarrod makes it sound like the 32Gb version also suffers from the same performance loss. I've read a few comments of people with 32Gb RAM buying new memory for no reason because of this video.
@Bevda Fucker i have the same memory and specs, i can confirm the ram is 1rx8
Thanks Jared for the thorough investigation on this. Never seen changing memory kit for laptop with same speed and latency bringing that much performance difference. May be a deliberate attempt by Lenovo to downplay Legion 5 series compared to 7 series. Would you be checking this for the Omen 15 as well?
Why this happening only for change the same ram?
Cheers for discovering this Jarod!
I tried grid autosport was getting average of 100fps and minimum of 72fps. Upgraded to some Kingston hyperX and my average FPS was 115fps and lows of 95fps
BETTER set of RAMs on LenovoUSA
Hey Guys. Just letting you know on the RAM of my unit.
I recently got mine on LenovoUSA.
2 x 1TB with RTX3070 16gbRAM.
Glad that I got a different set of RAMs.
tRFC(ns),tRFC,tRFC2,tRFC4 on mine is the same as Jarrod's.
I wont be changing RAM anytime soon. :)
Stock RAM: Instead of one 1Rx16, I got two, 1Rx8.
Manufacturer: Micron Technology, 8GB 3200Mhz Single Rank
Part Number: 4ATF1G64HZ-3G2E2
I ordered the 2tb model also recently should be coming July 6th but it has a rtx 3060 so we'll see how my ram operates.
Hi there! Really appreciate your video. You mentioned in the video that you weren't sure whether the performance increase was related more to the extended timings vs. the upgrade to 1rx8. I can confirm that it's almost entirely from the 1x8.
Got a new Lenovo Legion 5 Pro with low tRFC 1rx16 memory (HMAA1GS6CJR6N-XN). Nearly a 10% CPU bench performance increase when upgrading to 1rx8 with identical timings (only difference was CL 22 -> 20).
This is awesome. Definitely what I subscribed for. Hopefully people will be able to solve this issue.
My Legion 5 arrived yesterday, il be swapping out the RAM and getting the performance boost thanks to you. Just another reason why im now a patron. Your the best laptop reviewer there is.
Well, check ram before you actualy do it. Because I have legion 5 PRO too and my test shows same numbers as he has with new ram.
@@Peeveish is the new ram dual rank or single rank? if you dont mind me asking
Thank you for sharing this info!
I also have the 2021 Lenovo Legion 5 with the 3060 and a 5800H. My device also comes with the same Ram Memory as your device, mine is purchased from UAE. With your video now I am trying to find a suitable Ram Memory preferably a 32GB version.
Just letting you know guys that I just got my 2021 Legion 7 with the 3070, and it has the slower samsung RAM. So it affects Legion 7s too.
Upgraded to 32Gb of Timetec RAM. It's weird as it's definitely faster than the Samsung with the same TRFcs. All other values seen at 2:34 are faster (like 30% lower on avg). Passmark's Memory Mark gave me a 51% for the Samsung sticks where as the Timetec bumps it up tp 65%. So I think I'll settle with the Timetec for now. Crucial's stocks seem a bit low in Canada.
I have a legion 5 pro, how is the kingston FURY Impact, 32GB DDR4, 3200MHz CL20, Dual Channel Kit?? cost 200$
I know this is a year old, but just got a L5pro on the cheap and yeah, huge boost in min FPS after I followed the advice here and got some 2rx8 RAM. Thanks mate.
Hey, thanks for your advise.
I followed the same tip for my Asus TUF A15 2021, which had the same slow Samsung RAM. I upgraded it to Crucials CT8G4SFRA32A which comes as dual rank and even better tRFC timings.
The increase in performance is insane! I never thought that this tiny details can mean so much.
Thanks again!
7 months later. But I just purchased this same ram based off your comment. Hoping to get some warzone fps boost, you think I will?
@@shycreation9418
Well it did for me. But it depends on the limiting factor. If its the GPU you wont get much more FPS by switching the RAM. If its not the GPU and you are using the slow retail RAM, iam pretty sure you will get some more FPS.
For what it's worth - I purchased the Lenovo Legion 5 Pro 32gb/3070 from Lenovo Australia, and the timings in ZenTimings is showing the same was your 'My New Memory' @ 2:32 - So it doesn't appear to be an issue anymore/with Australian variants.
Copped it for
Hello can you send here your Lenovo Legion 5 PRO producent code? For example 82JD00EAPB.
I just got my legion 5 pro with 32 GB RAM (ordered in Germany) and my original memory has exactly the same timings as your upgraded memory. It seems that this is not a problem for all models.
What timing u have as I have 32 also
Hello, thank you for (probably) being the first one to point out that potential problem, Jarrod! :) I'm currently located in Germany, got my Legion 5 Pro via campuspoint and my stock ram appears to have the same specs as the new ram you tested. Frame times look fine as well (more or less). Hope that might help some of you :)
So, now more than ever do we need a comparison between HyperX Impact, Vengeance, XPG 3200 sodimm... Really hoping you do it Jarrod
Very good investigation and report. Thanks for sharing 👍
I updated my Aorus 15P XC 10th gen with 3070 from 16GB (2x8 1rx16 ) to 32GB (2x16 2rx8) and the uplift in FPS (11 games tested) is on avg 9.42%. The biggest gain came with Horizon Zero Dawn at around 13%. So it works :)
Can you provide me with a link to that ram
Can ask for the serial number of Rams? I still confused to buy single rank or duel rank.
Happy I put the exact same ram upgrade in my 5p runs so good!! 2x8gb crucial perfect! Definitely noticed it runs better than other exact laptops I’ve seen and I think this must be why!
Glad we could help, Jarrod!!😊
You helped..?
@@GhostSlayerYT He is an early owner and also provided info to OwnOrDisown when the 5 pro hit the market.
Your reviews are so interesting! I bought myself a legion 5 from 2020 after looking at ur video a couple times last year
Makes me wonder if the better memory SKU was intentionally used in the legion 7 to create greater differentiation between the performance of the similarly speccd models.
I'm not a laptop guy but considering it for the future... Is there no advance overclocking options for memory on laptops for things like sub timings?
Pretty sure the legion 7 suffers from the same ram issue
Amazing mate!! Never would've imagined that!!!
I'm still getting this with stock memory sticks, and maybe swapping them out later. A 10 fps difference for me is not that big of a deal when we're already getting around 120fps. A laptop has other benefits than just getting the highest fps. Anyway thank you so much Jarrod!
same here
The increase is not 10fps, it's 10% in average fps and potentially more than 10% in 1% lows.
@@hectorgomez401 That 1% lows is just 1% of the time of that particular benchmark test.
The other 99% of the time, game performs quite well.
For example, let's say the max fps you get is 300 fps. Sounds great? Every 2 seconds, there is a dip to 20 fps. So, the min fps is 20, and max is 300. The average could still be very high, sounds really good but it isn't.
1% low is telling us that the worst 1% of the time, the game gets 112 fps.
It really won't matter at High FPS. Maybe matters for an Esports gamer.
@@aryank3014 Improving 1% lows is much more important then improving overall average FPS because 1% lows are the big drops that feel like stuttering when you play, so boosting them gives smoother gameplay.
As did I, just went to Microcenter and bought the Legion 5 (non-Pro) with the 3060 and 1TB SSD ($1,299 USD), it has 16 GB and I planned to upgrade to 32 GB anyway so the RAM timings issue I found via these videos when researching the laptop was a non-issue for me since I know I will only be living with it for a short time until I can do the RAM upgrade.
Just received my Legion 7 with the 3080 and the 5800h this had exactly the same slower ram as you have reported. This laptop was bought in the UK.
Update I replaced the memory with the CT2K16G4SFRA32A kit timings are exactly the same as your new memory. Thanks for the tip.
Great find Jarrod! Could be affecting many of the Ryzen 1080p systems out there..
It is due to manufacturer. Not an issue for Lenovo (i.e. Asus Tuf 15 was bashed so badly in Asia when the RTX3060/3070 version were released earlier this year). The new 8GB RAM module is all 4 BG RAM now. It is what it is... . only RAM modules manufactured prior to mid 2020 have RAM chips on both side. Only Mainland China market for the first batch of Legion 5/5 Pro/7 got 8 Bank Group RAM. The rumor was that Lenovo's manufacturing plant in Hefei China had to place "old" RAM modules (therefore have dual RAM chips on the stick itself) to this batch. Since all RAM manufacturers have moved onto single side 4BG modules for 8GB RAM, there seems to be only two solutions: 1) buy 2 X 16GB module as those will guarantee to be 8 BG; or 2) buy second hand 8GB module
Great video! I got my Legion 5 Pro just 4 days ago. Can't Lenovo maybe fix this issue with an update or so? Because changing RAMs and paying 180 € extra defeats the purpose of this laptop being reasonably priced!!! Did Lenovo comment on this mysterious issue?
I just received my Legion 5 pro with the 32gigs ram variant, the timings on mine is the same as the new memory that Jarrod bought.
Great work jarrod!
I never expected similar memory to perform so different from each other, this raises a question
How many more laptops can benefit from better memory since we don't know what kind of memory other OEMs have put in their laptops
That explains a lot. I immediately swapped out my ram for 2 32gb sticks when I bought my legion 5 pro so I never noticed it was being bottlenecked by the memory. That's very informative.
Hey bro, i was just wondering whats the name of the ram you bought as i am also looking to upgrade.
@@fantastic2671 I got this exact model number on Amazon.
Patriot Memory DDR4 3200MHz PC4-25600 32GB SODIMM Laptop Memory Lifetime Warranty PSD432G32002S
@@LopezKanapi Thank you so much beo, I really appreciate it
@@fantastic2671 My 32Gb model got 122 FPS in shadows of the tomb raider, the best laptop on the list got 123 FPS. So I don't think you need to upgrade RAM on the 32 Gb model. For some strange reason the 32Gb model does perform better. (I've been spamming this everywhere after testing, lol). But no need to waste your money, unless you need more than 32Gb.
@@atnfn one thing to note is that having more ram increases gaming performance, especially on ryzen laptops, so you still might get better results with new and better memory than the stock ram but as you said it’s already performing great so no need to waste money. Also thank you for spreading the message
Wow that's amazing I kinda want you to change the memory on the legion 7
Don't think it would help as much, the 7 already has the lower tRFC
@@xruud24 I think 32 gb sticks are usually dual rank, so that would provide a tiny but measurable boost in performance for cpu bound workloads.
@@mingyi456 The 32Gb model does not suffer from this performance loss, I tested it myself got 122 FPS in shadows of the tomb raider at 1080p high, higher than Jarrod's 111FPS.
@@JarrodsTech Jarrod I've bought the 7 with 32gb ram, does lower trfc mean it's proper good ram and not some clunky terrible ram, 😁
@@atnfn so you have the same subtimings like the ones Jarrod posted? I also got the 32GB variant but with the same slower timings.
Really superb videos. Sometimes I find the speed of speech delivery a fraction too fast, but really excellent in depth work and production. Congratulations and thanks to Jarrod.
This dude is f-k-i-n amazing. I wish you were in millions
Its true :-) The 1Rx16 modules have significantly lower bandwidth compared to the 1Rx8 variants. The more bank groups a memory module has, the higher the bandwidth is. Contrary to what the naming convention may suggest, the single rank x8 modules have twice as many bank groups compared to the single rank x16 variants.
When it usually comes to laptop memory, its important to note that all 32GB are always dual rank at 3200MT/s.
So its never worth it upgrading 32GB laptops to some "faster" memory because they wont be faster even if you go from CL22 to CL18 JEDEC, difference is minimal, but if your laptop supports XMP configuration then SO-DIMM CL14 3200MT/s memory does in fact exist.
Informative and quick as ALWAYS.
Seems like I got lucky. Got my Legion 5 pro 2 weeks ago and acording to zen timings I have the exact same timings as your new ram. Lucky me.
How's your legion 5 pro been? I'm going to get one soon and just want to know if preformance is good :D
@@woomygamer642 I think the performance is fantastic. I mean, you wont get current gen Desktop performance out of it of course, but its still really really good IMO.
@@TheJanstyler I think the performance of Rtx 3070 laptops is akin to the Rtx 2080 Desktop?
Are your laptop is 16gb ram model?
@@muhammadikmalothman4397 32
Damn. Very well done Jarrod. Great job finding the problem and showing us all how to get this machine optimized.
Imagine cheaping out on the memory to the point where performance suffers this much. How many customers did they lose to save a few dollars per unit?
@@_-_--_ what ram should I buy for 32 gb with the increase in performance that will still run at 3200? I just bought this laptop :D
@@markmichaels5835 just bought it yesterday, I'm interested as well.
I'm waiting to buy a new RAM as I want to test it first, some regions are lucky and got a better one, I live in Italy. Tomorrow it'll get here and I'll know what to do.
@@lambdacode1503 I did some digging and found the HX432s20IB2K2/32 by hyper impact, increased performance by 13% and its 32. Might be worth a look. I already put an order in so I can report back.
@@markmichaels5835 thank you I'll look into it.
32GB might be overkill for my use, but more is better lol
@@lambdacode1503 bro.. how much is in italy with vat
Interestingly, my stock ram is the exact same one as your new ram (with memory Lenovo written on the back). Same logo, same letters, and same chips placement. I bought it sealed and brand new from Lenovo.
Ditto. Just purchased this week and it arrived today. Exact same.
Can I say that the memory problem is fixed? It's because it is. It was an issue with the first release of the Legion 5 Pro. Now the memory has decent secondary timings.
Exactly. Bought mine a week ago straight from China and the stock ram has the same specifications as Jarrod's replacement ram.
For 16gb ram stock model?
@@kylecambronero480 For 16gb ram stock model?
Next level investigation. ENHANCE!!!
👀👀👀👀
Thanks for this info, I appreciate it. Do you think Legion 5 (non-pro version) has the same problem? I bought the 17 inch version. At this point I'm fine but one day when I start noticing slowdowns, I know RAM is worthy of an upgrade.
For anyone who reads this. I recently purchased a Legion 7 (2021) and it also has the slow memory (the one shown here for the Legion 5 Pro). My Legion 7 is configured with a Ryzen 7 5800H, 32GB RAM & 3070. So just to put it out there, I think the difference is not related to the model "Legion 5 Pro" or "Legion 7", but more having to do with the chosen CPU (5900HX vs 5800H).
Now, not all of the timings are the same, some are lower, but tRFC (ns), tRFC, tRFC2 & tRFC4 are the same as the slower one.
Never clicked so fast in my life
That's a very advanced explanation !
Big Salute Jerrod you're pure👏
Just to put some more information out there, I just bought the Legion 7 with a Ryzen 5800H, two terabytes of memory, a RTX 3070, and 32 gigs of RAM for a little over 2k. This machine is a beast for one thing and has a beautiful display. Getting to the point, the 32 gigs of RAM in mine are identical to the new sticks (faster ones) that you put in the Legion 5 Pro this episode. Ive seen some folks saying the Legion 7 also has the slower memory and I'm thinking that could be true, for models with less than 32 gigs. Just something I wanted to know before I ordered but couldn't find any information on it.
"two terabytes of memory" Unless you somehow bought a NASA supercomputer, I think you meant storage, not memory lol
This guys channel is gold. Every time I have one of these weird questions or thoughts. He makes a video and explains it. Love it!
yo Jarrod are you planning to review the Legion 5 2021?
It would be interesting to see if this model has the same issues with the stock memory.
It has. I just swapped my sticks last week. Same model on the stock sticks as in jarrods video.
@@SYmotgang Hello! The gain is about 10% too?
@@corentinrousseaux4067 yes. 10-15. Went from 104 to 121 fps in shadow of the tomb raider. 118 to 135 in warzone.
My 32GB dual rank kit will be here in two days, wish I knew how to do all these benchmark tests so I can provide a little bit more info for yall but I'm very new to owning a "gaming laptop" (which I dont even game on lol) so my testing and benchmark knowledge is very limited
This was a juicy scoop, God dam it why did i buy 32 gb of ram. great detective work jarrod!
I tested my 32Gb model in shadows of the tomb raider at 1080p High. I got 122 FPS. (Jarrod got 111 FPS, the best 3070 laptop on the list got 123 FPS) For whatever reason the 32Gb model does perform better. I was sceptical when I heard people say the 32Gb model performs better, so I had to test it myself. I've watched reviews before and having 32Gb rather than 16Gb never makes any difference. But somehow in this laptop it does. Perhaps the 2x16Gb models have more chips on them I guess and that somehow improves things. I have no idea. All I know it seems what people say that the 32Gb model performs better is true.
@@atnfn yay I’m glad i got 32 gb of ram
@@atnfn hope you are right..I just ordered 32gb version last week. If only Jarrod post this earlier, I would bought 8 gb ram stock and buy two newer and better ram which would save me money 💰💰
@@nuraizayoi3319 Well I'm half right. I tested with wrong settings, high instead of highest. There actually is a performance loss on the 32gb model as well. But it isn't as big, on highest I got 118fps. Better than 111fps on the 16gb model, but not as good as with better ram. Unless when he said highest he actually meant with all settings maxed. Cause the highest preset doesn't actually max all settings. But I think the performance drop is way too big if you max all settings, so I don't think he meant that.
If your ram is 2rx8 then you are good. (16 chips per module)
Did some digging on this. From the Video, looks like the Legion 5 Pro has 4 chips baked in the module, 2GB each whereas the Crucial Module has 8 chips which means each of them has 1GB of memory. I think the performance difference is coming due to Memory Bank configuration (not to be confused with Memory Rank). Normally each of those chips are divided to multiple Banks and some of the banks from each chip makes a Bank group for the whole DIMM. This increased the parallel read and write capacity in the DRAM chip as Memory controller can access one row for each Bank Group parallelly. So, if a memory has more number of Bank Groups, with each group having less number of banks, the parallel read and write capacity increases. From those two memories, it looks like that the Crucial Memory having more number of chips (8GB is divided into 8 one GB chip vs 4 two GB chips in original Ram) and high chance that it has more number of Rank Groups. I have also checked Crucial official site and they mentioned to have 1024MB Chip size.
Question: Can I still get the max performance, if I use both the stock ram and new ram together,
or do you need to replace the old ram with the new ram completely.
That’s what I’m wondering. Did you ever find out ?
if you mix RAM the best case scenario is you run at the slower timings, worst case it won't boot and middle of the road case it runs at like 2133 Mhz's instead of 3200 Mhz.
@@Zentrious i have the l5pro and if you were wondering I have the same results as the new ram in the video with my stock ram. So either i was lucky or they fixed the ram problems.
Just upgraded non pro version with 3070 and its fantastic improvement! Thank you Jarrod! (Laptop from Czech Rep.)
I wonder if this also applies to the 3060 model. Can't wait until you get a 3060 unit (though I already have mine lol)
is it good? i want to buy it but it takes 2 months for shipping here
@@sotruem8 It is great.
Mine is bought here in Denmark (3070/16gb model) and have the exact same timings with the only exception that one of the sticks have a tRDWR value of 10 instead of 11 that your sticks and the other of mine have. I’m glad I didn’t shell out the extra cash for the 32 gb model - now I can upgrade to some better quality ram sticks myself. I love my Legion 5 Pro, so this is only gonna make it even better. 😎
Edit: I’m working on flashing a unlocked BIOS and it seems that this gives access to memory timings and a lot of other advanced options. I of course don’t recommend this to people who don’t have experience with a flasher but if you are it’s probably possible to get better performance with the existing RAM modules by tweaking the timings in the unlocked BIOS.
On my 32GB Ram model i have combinations of both timings from your two different memory, tRFC from your stock, but every other timing from your new memory. Wierd
I have the same timings on my 32Gx2 like yours. But my laptop is not Legion 5.
I am a Korean gamer who enjoys your channel. I'm using two laptops with Cezanne and Tiger Lake. Can you compare the difference between single rank and dual rank memory in this new cpu? This time, I bought a hyperx impect ddr4 16g 3200 cl20 dual kit product. When I checked the product specification, it said 1r*8 2g*64bit. I think it's a single rank. The story that the dual rank is good on this new cpu is an issue in the Korean community. Due to this video, this video is very hot in the Korean community and I will wait for your reply.
May I refer to you as Detective Jarrod from now on? 🕵️🔝
🕵️
@Jarrod’sTech thank you for making this video! I ordered the Legion 7 with an RTX 3070 and AMD R7 5800H. I opened it up to check the memory and surely enough mine came with the 1rx16 memory. So I was able to switch it with better memory for a performance boost.
Please also find flaws in the upcoming Legion 5 2021 😁😁
Depends if they send it 😃
My legion 5 has the same ram as in this legion pro. Performance is up 10% by changing stock ram.
If you look at some photos, seems like the 2021 legion 5 (non pro) has last year's ColdFront 2.0 thermal system. Which makes me wonder how it will handle the optional 3070 gpu
@@azuraligthfeilt is it gonna be that bad in terms of thermals? If so the 1660ti or 2060 are better options?
Sorry it's my first time to buy a laptop so i just want to be sure 😅
@@ciscasaclang3378 I'm not sure. So far, I haven't find any Legion 5 2021 review that has enough detail to give a comprehensive and objective conclusion. Last year's Legion 5 seems to handle 2060 well. I'm confident that the Legion 5 2021 will be able to handle 3060 just fine. But, I can't say for sure with the 3070. If I remember correctly, Lenovo did set the 3070 on Legion 5 (non-pro) to 130W which givez us hope that the CF 2.0 system *might* be able to handle the 3070 with formidable performance and minimum throttling. But, I honestly can't say 100% for sure.
I intend to buy it in winter. Thanks for the TOP REVIEW. Keep up the good work! :)
This could've been fixed to some degree if they provided the option to tighten the timings in the BIOS like some other OEMs (MSI, sweaty laptop brands, etc)
IIRC no AMD Cezane laptop has RAM timings editable in their BIOS. I have a Tongfang laptop: Intel variant do have the timings, but AMD variant of the exact same model has not (presumably as the Zen3 Integrated Memory Controller forbids any change). The examples you provide are likely Intel variants..
Just checked my one month old L5 pro RTX3060 32GB and stock it already has got the memory with the faster timing, just like in your "New RAM" table. (tRFC 350ns, tRFC 560) Really happy with it, it's a great laptop for my CAD/CAM purposes!
yep, def gonna upgrade to 32g ram. any recommendation of a 2x16gb rams?
He showed some people got the stock 32 GB RAM Lenovo sticks with same lower spec tRFC so I think it's not that easy to give you suggestion on that. Probably the one shown @4:25 on the right should be fine: P/N KHX3200C20S4 I guess.
Since it's what you'll keep for the lifetime of the laptop (probably), get the best kit you can (for ddr4-3200 sodimms, I think it's CL18)
I went 2x16 dual rank hyperX impact. They are cl20 jedec spec so a little tighter timings. Any faster ram (cl18) wont help as that is xmp profile, and not supported.
@@SYmotgang last I checked, Lenovo used insyde bios for their gaming laptops. Unlocking the full range of options only requires modifying some firmware EC bits, a lot of guys on bios modding forums do it, quite easy.
@@summushieremiasclarkson4700 thats good news :)
Interesting findings. I installed that software on my Legion 5 (from last year with 4800H and 1660 Ti) and the timings are exactly the same as the ones from the second memory kit you installed (the better one). The entire first two columns are identical. And these are the stock 2x8GB sticks that came with it. Thaiphoon Burner shows it's made by Ramaxel, and with Micron chips, same as yours and also 16 banks.
I wonder if last years Legion 5 also had the same RAM timings discrepancy according to RAM supplier.
Seems like lenovo purposely did this to make the legion 7 look more superior
somehow i doubt it, as it would make the other models perform worse than similar specced laptops from other vendors. I guess thay got a really good price on that OEM samsung ram and just went for it.
Got my 82JQCTO1WW model today, which is the Stingray white version. Spec: 32GB 5600 3060 1TB SSD. I tested the ram it shipped with and all timings are the same as Jerrod's good ram. Very happy. The white version is really nice, so pleased I took a gamble on that since nobody seems to have one for video review beforehand.
legend again. Jarrod
Impressive testing and follow up! I wish more notebookproducers would give users access to ram-tweaking. On my old clevo P651 (i7 6700hq and 1070) I had full access and overclocked the stock ram from 2133cl15 to 2400cl14 and lowered tRFC and a few others. 5-15% higher fps depending on game/setting. Holding ctrl+f while booting reset bios to default if I tweaked too far.
This is proof that all the GOATs get up EARLY! Lol
So not really worth the upgrade if we play everything at uhd? Differences seem massive for 1080p but I dont plan on ever using that.
Thinking exactly the same.
actually, in China, Lenovo has assured that the early batches of legion 5/5pro/7（which in China is R7000P/R9000P/R9000K）will be guaranteed to ship with 4 bank-group memory, but the later batches might come with mixed memory which means it could be either 2BG or 4BG. it do affects the machines' performance and was widely mentioned in many Chinese reviews.
Interesting, glad I bought the 16 gb version (since I was going to upgrade anyway).
Wooooo greetings from Singapore thats my Zentimings!!!!
Also on a side note from analyzing the ram problem in the discord: it seems that the simplest way to get the performance boost Jarrod got here is to have DOUBLE SIDED RAM. i upgraded my ram with 32gb of slow ram (1rx16 CL22 tRFC880) but still gained roughly 10% performance. ofc Kal with his faster ram had even more improvements but from my observations simply having ram chips on both sides of the stick gives most of the benefits
Not really lol, in laptop DIMMs the chips on both sides is more cause of space instead of any perf benefit lol
The space it takes up is so minor there is no value in saving physical space. As I said I have observed the performance across multiple legion 2021 owners over the 1+ month that I've had this laptop before coming to this conclusion
Incredible review, thank you so much for investigating this and linking the memory to buy.
The amount of work Jarrod put into this video is insane. Thank you for your work.
Mine arrived today. Purchased in Switzerland , had the same slow ram
Could you make a Video explaining what Single and Dual Rank RAM is?
Another great Video by the man Jarrod! Such great content that is relevant!
Have the Legion 5 pro in SG. Can confirm the same timings. I think I will not upgrade though, as the performance is still ok, and its a sweet upgrade to hold for later.
Just got a new kit of RAM to fix this right when mine comes in. These things are super cheap rn, just bought the fully specced version for $1650! Thanks for finding these things so consumers don’t have to 🙏
Nice! I'm about to do a 2022 update with the new model :)
@@JarrodsTech Nice, I’ll have to see what I may or may not have missed on the Gen 7 line up. Super stoked with what I got, thanks again for the pointers and the good content bro
Got a Legion 5 Pro direct from Lenovo 3 weeks ago with 32GB ram, has the same specs as Jarrod's 'new' RAM, so it seems like they have updated the RAM.
I guess only you are that kind of a person to question, analyse and try to solve.... I've just bought Legion 5 Pro and I will definitely try this out, thanks!