Thanks for the info, although I've literally just installed a 3rd reef, but it also works for reefing line failure, so I'll include these items for emergency...👍
It’s a good idea to have all the lines rigged if there is weather in the forecast, but this works if the wind comes up unexpectedly and not all the reef lines are rigged.
Nice idea, and it probably works fine on small boats, where you can easily access the far end of the boom. Many cruising yachts 38ft up won't have that, in which case you either have to put yourself in danger in tough weather, or you won't use it. Even on smaller vessels, you have to be really careful. In open water, big waves or swell, the boom may be dancing like crazy when there's no tension on the sail. Especially for the third reef, which you normally only set in extreme situations.
I used the same approach on my previous 42’ / 12.8m cruiser/racer monohull and it worked great. As you say depends on the boat though. For the third reef or really sporty conditions I’d recommend lowering the sail completely, reefing, then re-hoisting.
this video sokved so many problems for me, now that I have seen it, its totaly obvius and erverybody may ask why I did not do it like this before ;-) Thank you so much!
Fantastic ideas and tips! This channel exposes you to ideas that you may not work out on your own. Youve solved my 3rd reef conundrum with only 2 reef lines! In implementing this for cruising I will try using a snap shackle to avoid the hook being shaken out while setting up, especially short handed .... any comment?
Hey I really like how you use a soft shackle for your 3rd reef. I think we will adopt that technique since I don't really want to run another line for the 3rd reef. Love all your video's. They are really helping me with our F-31 Aloha, Cullen
Thanks so much - glad they’re helpful! Once we get to the 3rd reef we’ve kind of switched from race mode to survival mode so it’s okay that we have to drop the sail and it takes a few seconds longer!
@@SailingTipsCa I'd like to modify my outboard boom end with 4 sheaves like yours. Are there plates separating the sheaves to keep the lines from jumping off the sheave or are they just stacked and held in place with that pin with a ring in it?
@@hoopaa6231 Great question! My previous boat which inspired my setup had an Isomat NB55 boom end casting (www.rigrite.com/Spars/Isomat_Spars/Isomat_Booms/NB55_boom.php) which separated the sheaves with metal plates, which was nice, but I didn’t have the space for that on the new boom. So on the F-82R I machined a piece of UHMW plastic with four notches which bolts to the underside of the top surface of the boom outboard of the sheaves and mates perfectly with the notches formed by the sheaves, so from the top it looks like there are four holes for the reef lines and outhaul to pass through, and this keeps them from skipping off their sheaves.
@@SailingTipsCa Thanks, that makes sense. I'm working on a similar solution. Does your outhaul run forward to the mast, down to the deck, and then back to the cockpit? If so, is the outhaul tension effected by your rotating mast? I'm thinking of modifying mine this way.
@@hoopaa6231 On my previous monohull (fixed mast) the outhaul had 2:1 purchase externally, plus 2:1 purchase inside the boom, ran forward to the gooseneck, down to the deck, and back to a cockpit clutch and winch, so basically like you're proposing. On the F-82R the outhaul has the same 2:1 external and 2:1 internal, but exits the boom above the companionway, goes through a clam cleat, and then a cheek block so you can harden by pulling down. You can it dangling down in front of the companionway in this video (th-cam.com/video/8a40HSwco5g/w-d-xo.html) and I harden it right after the leeward mark rounding by wrapping it around a winch handle and pulling down.
I did something sort of similar on my previous boat (F-24 II) that let us use the outhaul when reefed; it let us get great sail shape when reefed which made sailing much more full in high winds. We didn't use a hook and the set up didn't require anyone to go near the aft end of the boom to put in or take out a reef saving time and making it safer. We left the outhaul on the un-reefed clew, and instead of tying the reef line around the boom, we simply tied it to the un-reefed clew. To reef we would slack the outhaul, lower the main, attach and tighten the reefed tack line, tighten the reef line, then tension the outhaul.
That sounds like a great idea too! The thing I like about using the outhaul is that you have the 4:1 ratio (or whatever yours has) whereas my reef lines are 1:1.
@@SailingTipsCa At this moment my reef line at boom-end has 2:1. one going from boom up to reef cringe and down to boom end, so that might work and do same as Davids and Garys' , pull down and back same time. i need to test that further...
Nice! If it’s not obvious our boom is DIY aluminum from the Metal Supermarket. I had a similar setup on my previous monohull which I was very happy with, so I basically did the same thing!
Yes I think velcro straps were more prevalent before Dyneema and soft shackles became widely available. They may also still be preferable in some cases (e.g. carbon boom) due to reduced point loading.
Excellent ID. Gonne change that on my C-31 boom end. Now a 4:1 outside only out haul in 4mm SK75. I’ll ad the hook! Rest stays same. Tack still to car&track on softshackle.
Some people are concerned the hook might fall out, and it does sometimes but not really a big deal. If that's a bother then you can use a snap shackle or a Tylaska shackle or anything really.
The hook does periodically fall out but normally just before the main is fully hoisted or we’re in the process of reefing, but rarely during normal tacking and gybing maneuvers. If you find it becomes a problem you could always use a Wichard-style snap shackle or Tylaska shackle which wouldn’t fall out.
I was initially worried about that too, and expected it to chafe through rather quickly, but it lasted for about 5 years on my previous boat before I sold it, and now we’re into the the third year on my current boat. That said, I was careful to use a conical grinding bit to chamfer the edges of the hole so they aren’t sharp.
I "stupidly"? installed an outhaul + 3 reefing lines on my 25ft. Do I understand correctly there's absolutely no need for that thanks to a simple hook???? That's a lot of spaghetti avoided! However, how do you tackle the flapping reefed part of the sail if there's no clew line to it anymore? Great presentation. Love your fast and to the point approach.
I think the clew reef lines are still helpful even for just keeping the clew under control during the reefing process. But they can terminate at simple jammers on the boom and don’t need complex controls to adjust the foot shape if you’re using the outhaul for that. The reef lines do also transmit the horizontal forces to control the leach shape via the main sheet. If you don’t have reef lines rigged you can use a soft shackle for that part, but that requires lowering the sail further than would be required with reef lines in order to get control of the clew. So we normally rig two of our three reef lines, the ones we most commonly use, and use a soft shackle for the third reef. Does this make sense?
The short answer is that it starts to get noticeably fuzzy. Occasional small stray hairs are okay, but fur is a good indication of lots of broken fibres. I also like to use Samson Amsteel wherever possible because it’s incredibly good value, probably because it’s not specific to the sailing industry. It’s not pre-stretched like Dux though, so I’d use Dux for shrouds.
Thanks for the info, although I've literally just installed a 3rd reef, but it also works for reefing line failure, so I'll include these items for emergency...👍
It’s a good idea to have all the lines rigged if there is weather in the forecast, but this works if the wind comes up unexpectedly and not all the reef lines are rigged.
Great idea! Using the hook is easy, efficient and not expensive at all
Thanks - it has worked well for me for the past decade and hopefully it works well for you and others too!!!
Nice idea, and it probably works fine on small boats, where you can easily access the far end of the boom. Many cruising yachts 38ft up won't have that, in which case you either have to put yourself in danger in tough weather, or you won't use it.
Even on smaller vessels, you have to be really careful. In open water, big waves or swell, the boom may be dancing like crazy when there's no tension on the sail. Especially for the third reef, which you normally only set in extreme situations.
I used the same approach on my previous 42’ / 12.8m cruiser/racer monohull and it worked great. As you say depends on the boat though. For the third reef or really sporty conditions I’d recommend lowering the sail completely, reefing, then re-hoisting.
this video sokved so many problems for me, now that I have seen it, its totaly obvius and erverybody may ask why I did not do it like this before ;-)
Thank you so much!
So glad it helped!
Yes, really great idea! Well understandabble for a German native speaker, too. Even if spoken faily quickly...
Glad it made sense! Sorry about speaking too quickly…
This is definitely useful, Knowledge without effort. Thank you for sharing!
Thanks - glad you found it helpful!
A solution to my problem! Thanks!
Perfect - glad it was helpful!!!
Fantastic ideas and tips! This channel exposes you to ideas that you may not work out on your own.
Youve solved my 3rd reef conundrum with only 2 reef lines!
In implementing this for cruising I will try using a snap shackle to avoid the hook being shaken out while setting up, especially short handed .... any comment?
Yes you could definitely use a snap shackle of some sort instead of a hook to keep it from shaking out!
Hey I really like how you use a soft shackle for your 3rd reef. I think we will adopt that technique since I don't really want to run another line for the 3rd reef.
Love all your video's. They are really helping me with our F-31
Aloha,
Cullen
Thanks so much - glad they’re helpful! Once we get to the 3rd reef we’ve kind of switched from race mode to survival mode so it’s okay that we have to drop the sail and it takes a few seconds longer!
@@SailingTipsCa I'd like to modify my outboard boom end with 4 sheaves like yours. Are there plates separating the sheaves to keep the lines from jumping off the sheave or are they just stacked and held in place with that pin with a ring in it?
@@hoopaa6231 Great question! My previous boat which inspired my setup had an Isomat NB55 boom end casting (www.rigrite.com/Spars/Isomat_Spars/Isomat_Booms/NB55_boom.php) which separated the sheaves with metal plates, which was nice, but I didn’t have the space for that on the new boom. So on the F-82R I machined a piece of UHMW plastic with four notches which bolts to the underside of the top surface of the boom outboard of the sheaves and mates perfectly with the notches formed by the sheaves, so from the top it looks like there are four holes for the reef lines and outhaul to pass through, and this keeps them from skipping off their sheaves.
@@SailingTipsCa Thanks, that makes sense. I'm working on a similar solution. Does your outhaul run forward to the mast, down to the deck, and then back to the cockpit? If so, is the outhaul tension effected by your rotating mast? I'm thinking of modifying mine this way.
@@hoopaa6231 On my previous monohull (fixed mast) the outhaul had 2:1 purchase externally, plus 2:1 purchase inside the boom, ran forward to the gooseneck, down to the deck, and back to a cockpit clutch and winch, so basically like you're proposing. On the F-82R the outhaul has the same 2:1 external and 2:1 internal, but exits the boom above the companionway, goes through a clam cleat, and then a cheek block so you can harden by pulling down. You can it dangling down in front of the companionway in this video (th-cam.com/video/8a40HSwco5g/w-d-xo.html) and I harden it right after the leeward mark rounding by wrapping it around a winch handle and pulling down.
Top Man!!!!!!!!!!!! well done
Thanks - glad you liked it!
I did something sort of similar on my previous boat (F-24 II) that let us use the outhaul when reefed; it let us get great sail shape when reefed which made sailing much more full in high winds. We didn't use a hook and the set up didn't require anyone to go near the aft end of the boom to put in or take out a reef saving time and making it safer. We left the outhaul on the un-reefed clew, and instead of tying the reef line around the boom, we simply tied it to the un-reefed clew. To reef we would slack the outhaul, lower the main, attach and tighten the reefed tack line, tighten the reef line, then tension the outhaul.
That sounds like a great idea too! The thing I like about using the outhaul is that you have the 4:1 ratio (or whatever yours has) whereas my reef lines are 1:1.
@@SailingTipsCa At this moment my reef line at boom-end has 2:1. one going from boom up to reef cringe and down to boom end, so that might work and do same as Davids and Garys' , pull down and back same time. i need to test that further...
Great tutorial.
Glad you found it helpful!
Very interesting stuff! I will look into how to apply this to my 28R which has a DIY carbon boom. Thanks!
Nice! If it’s not obvious our boom is DIY aluminum from the Metal Supermarket. I had a similar setup on my previous monohull which I was very happy with, so I basically did the same thing!
I use a velcro strap instead of the soft shackle but same concept; I like the hook on the end of the outhaul.
Yes I think velcro straps were more prevalent before Dyneema and soft shackles became widely available. They may also still be preferable in some cases (e.g. carbon boom) due to reduced point loading.
@@SailingTipsCa rofl too funny, I was a sailmaker about 20+ years ago, it's concerning to be thought of as "old school"
And thinking about this, soft shackles are way easier to work with than the velcro.
@@hippitydippity3331 Yes I was just sailing on a boat yesterday with Velcro and my first thought was "I'm bringing soft shackles next time!!!"
Excellent ID. Gonne change that on my C-31 boom end. Now a 4:1 outside only out haul in 4mm SK75. I’ll ad the hook! Rest stays same. Tack still to car&track on softshackle.
Some people are concerned the hook might fall out, and it does sometimes but not really a big deal. If that's a bother then you can use a snap shackle or a Tylaska shackle or anything really.
Thanks
Welcome!
do you ever find that outhaul hook disengages during tacking etc? from the main flopping around a bit during certain times? good video, very helpful
The hook does periodically fall out but normally just before the main is fully hoisted or we’re in the process of reefing, but rarely during normal tacking and gybing maneuvers. If you find it becomes a problem you could always use a Wichard-style snap shackle or Tylaska shackle which wouldn’t fall out.
Looks good! My concern with this setup would be the line to the hook chafing where it comes out of the hole in the boom.
I was initially worried about that too, and expected it to chafe through rather quickly, but it lasted for about 5 years on my previous boat before I sold it, and now we’re into the the third year on my current boat. That said, I was careful to use a conical grinding bit to chamfer the edges of the hole so they aren’t sharp.
You could also add an external padeye to the aft end of the boom and splice the Dyneema to that…
@@SailingTipsCa 👍🏻
@@SailingTipsCa 👍🏻
I "stupidly"? installed an outhaul + 3 reefing lines on my 25ft. Do I understand correctly there's absolutely no need for that thanks to a simple hook???? That's a lot of spaghetti avoided! However, how do you tackle the flapping reefed part of the sail if there's no clew line to it anymore? Great presentation. Love your fast and to the point approach.
I think the clew reef lines are still helpful even for just keeping the clew under control during the reefing process. But they can terminate at simple jammers on the boom and don’t need complex controls to adjust the foot shape if you’re using the outhaul for that. The reef lines do also transmit the horizontal forces to control the leach shape via the main sheet. If you don’t have reef lines rigged you can use a soft shackle for that part, but that requires lowering the sail further than would be required with reef lines in order to get control of the clew. So we normally rig two of our three reef lines, the ones we most commonly use, and use a soft shackle for the third reef. Does this make sense?
Hey quick question about your dux rigging. When do you know its getting close to needing to replace lines?
The short answer is that it starts to get noticeably fuzzy. Occasional small stray hairs are okay, but fur is a good indication of lots of broken fibres. I also like to use Samson Amsteel wherever possible because it’s incredibly good value, probably because it’s not specific to the sailing industry. It’s not pre-stretched like Dux though, so I’d use Dux for shrouds.