The "more" that's going on is that churches are horribly judgemental, exclusive organizations. They hurt millions of people. And John won't even let her air her experience at her churches, because he doesn't want her to put the truth about churches out there.
Im glad John said this. I always squint my eyes and wonder about people who magically seem to have bad experiences with every job/community they join. There is no way it happens everywhere, you have to he doing something. Once is bad luck, twice is a coincidence, 3 times something else is going on.
She's probably the problem but doesn't want to accept self accountability. If she has problems in 3 churches and doesn't get along with anyone and expects her husband to fight her problems for her (when she's the one causing the problem) then it's not good. When you have bad experiences wherever you go, when the common denominator is you, then most likely, you are the problem. That's what she fails to see.
I worked for a church as a cleaner and I told them from the beginning please let me know if they have any issues. Heard nothing but gossip about me. No one ever approached me about issues. But when I did I was labeled a person you can't talk too. I don't appreciate gossip when you see me daily and could tell me your concerns. Bottom line people complain instead of worrying about the big picture.
It could be partially them, but there is a lot of severe dysfunction going on in the church. If that isn't addressed, and we just continue to blame congregants for leadership that might not be doctrinally and ethically sound, then the church will continue to splinter and spiral downward.
Sometimes i wish John would let his callers elaborate more. He jumps to conclusions and starts giving advhce without getting a full story or at least more details. Its so frustraiting.
Spot on…he is great in what he does but I think the dynamic of the show gets in the way sometimes, so he needs to kinda guide the conversation in a certain direction.
Thanks for saying this. He just assumes things about people and victim shames them (“common denominator” and bs) without listening to the full story. He bases everyone on past clients he’s had and it’s unfair to those people. There really are people who are easily attacked and bullied even as adults, and I absolutely hate people who victim shame. I feel like he just follows a guideline to cater to the people who fund his show or to advertise his book. At the end he doesn’t really give useful advice, but just tells people to “get a notebook and write things down.”
“Am I worth rescuing?” My husband did NOTHING when I was verbally abused & humiliated by his family. I cannot forgive him for that. It has affected my marriage, my self-esteem, EVERYTHING in my life. It’s very hard to forgive when you come third in your marriage.
My wife works at a church. The pastor was our friend and brought my wife on board when he first became pastor of that church because he knew she would be of value and her work ethic. Previously we also did ministry work in many churches, so I have a bit of an understanding. Point blank churches can be some of the most hostile organizations. If the pastor is weak or if leadership doesn’t step in and address behavior it becomes highly dysfunctional. The major reason being why they don’t is the donation factor. The person causing the drama could be a major donor, so they are allowed to rule the roost. Congregates also feel they have ownership because they’ve attended for years and have established cliques. If one old congregate doesn’t like you for whatever reason, they will spread their distaste to their clique. Old men especally love to wield their opinions and be aggressive towards women in the office if they don’t get their way. Females love to gossip and argue as if they are on a reality show. All this and more “Because the Holy Spirit told me I needed to address my concerns.” No, you’re just a terrible person using the Holy Spirit as an excuse to be a terrible person. My wife is a strong woman, the hardest worker I know and stubborn. Which is why over time the majority of the members have accepted her because she had proven herself. She took the shots fired at her. Funny enough many of the congregants realize she is the backbone in keeping the church operational and does way more work than the pastor. Making him look good and while also taking the credit. Really she is the church administrator, but is kept at the title of secretary because of male egos and doctrine. Due to all the drama, the pastor constantly taking credit for her work, not defending her or being honest that he approached her for the job and not the other way around; I stopped attending. I couldn’t walk in that church anymore because I was ready to pick a fight. I had to remove myself from that environment. I don’t believe in the structure of the church anymore. We have an agreement that we don’t talk about the inner workings anymore unless it impacts her negatively. I realize I have a more fulfilling life without attending a toxic church or being clouded by church doctrine. I work with youth, majority of which don’t go to church. I am able to show I am a Christian and plant seeds of a faith without throwing church in their face. You don’t understand the countless times a student is shocked to hear I’m a Christian and then they follow up with “But, Your nice!” Yes, because I show you the love of Christ while also being tough and inspiring you to accomplish your goals using those principles.
As a high school teacher I also get my 'jabs' in when I can. A wonderful captive audience, I am able to show them Christianity without talking about religion and 'the church' 🙂
The church is a place of fellowship it’s a building, I have my own relationship with Christ that transcends Sunday service. Listening to this caller is why I’m very careful with how I participate in church activities because you are dealing with everyday people with the same flaws as everyone else.
Churches attract people who like to be in charge, and since it's not a job, they think they can be bullies and get their way. That being said, many wonderful people exist in that space too. It's both and.
Actually, it is a job. Maybe not for the congregants, but there are many positions in the church (which normally includes ministers) where people are paid.
Never would I have expected to hear "Jay-Z" and "Jesus" used in the same sentence 😂😂😂 Dr. Deloney hit the nail on the head on a lot of things (pun not intended). This was a great listen ❤
Did it ever occur to her that the bully "volunteer" has been skimming funds off the tithes/offerings? Her following rules/protocol has impeded his thieving.
Thank you so much for saying that ministry doesn’t have to happen in church, it can be how you tip a waitress. That is a huge problem in our churches. We are made to feel that if you are not “working” inside the church building, you are not working for God.
I feel like this may have to do with a power war at the church. She said she created the processes. I wonder if she got angry when people didn’t fall into their place as defined by her.
Churches are super toxic environment, even if this couple is partly to blame. Sounds like Delony speaks from experience about ministry in church vs outside of church. I know of another pastor, they were kicked out of the church in the worst way. He started his own ministry with addicts and has been very successful with that.
I’m so sorry. 😞 Jesus has promised that He will never leave you. Father God loves you with an everlasting and forever love. No matter what any person may do to you, you are accepted, loved, pleasing, and valued for exactly who you are by God, and I hope you know that and can go to Him and read the Word and believe His promises. I am so very sorry that these things have happened to you. I pray you find healing and healthy relationships. 🙏🏼💝🌻
I worked at a church as a cleaner and everything is done behind your back. When they have a issue they talk behind your back instead of coming to you so they can solve the problem. One time the daycare director wrote me a note to get these 2 stains out of the kitchen and classroom floor and that I needed to clean them properly! Funny thing she had been there for months by then and those stains were there when I got there....those stains were not coming out! Pick much?
Churches put it down for passive aggressiveness. I had a friend who was a youth pastor and I couldn't believe how wishy washy him and his entire family were.
This is how every church is. It's absolutely madness to put yourself through this. You are always having to apologize for being you, meanwhile the leaders and cliques expect you to take them as they are.
Two things. Firstly this happens to them everywhere they go. Second, when she was affronted, the entire establishment was indifferent, her husband included. That tells me that unfortunately people may not like you in particular. Great point Dr J made about being a common denominator. People tend to rise in defense when someone earnest is being mistreated, but will look the other way if there's fundamental dislike for them. My guess is husband is tired of running back and forth to help with her fires and isn't happy about having to up-end another program he's passionate about over her
People a majority of people don’t actually don’t tend to say anything or rise to the defense of someone being mistreated. They stand around apathetic claiming they don’t want to be in the middle even when they no a behavior is wrong, or they don’t consider it their fight, or they think someone did something to justify being treated poorly. Some institutions by their very nature and power structure are toxic environments especially churches.
As a teen I moved from a Protestant denomination to the Catholic Church due to how poorly our youth paster was treated. In my late 50's I moved on from Christianity due to the patriarchy, abuser scandal, etc. The church is in big trouble. I happily identify as spiritual but not religious. Took me so long due to fear and being a rule follower. Recommend Sue M. Kidd's Dance of the Dissident Daughter.
Yes humans always fail but our Heavenly Father is always faithful. Jesus is always with us when people walk away. Our relationship with Him is the most important.
When she said multiple churches hurt me, I'm telling you my BS radar went off. That was affirmed when she talked about a mean guy at the church office. This is just the same everywhere.
It took me a very long time to realize that simply because a building is labeled a church, doesn't mean the people are nice. Just when I thought I had healed from the hurt I had experienced before from church goers, a series of small events tipped my anxiety over the edge and was fueled by my post partum anxiety and depression.. One day, I'll be back to being able to fully participate in our church, for now, I cannot but I will keep going because it's 90% in my head and my past trauma I have to deal with.
Many at church operate out of an orphan spirit and need lots of love and prayer and leaders who are being led by The Holy Spirit who have the eyes and ears to see them. We all have to see past the facade of showing up to church pretending we are active in our faith when we are actually not. Because when those individuals become leaders - like Dr John said, they use religion as weapon or they actively try to hurt well meaning church staff and members. Surrender and forgiveness and receiving the fullness of Gods love and grace is always the way forward.
I appreciate John pointing out that the most painful hurt was that her husband didn't stand up for her. Many commenters are assuming (perhaps rightly) that her husband didn't agree with her stance. However, the way that people spoke to her, the degree of cruelty and repetition of their reported comments, as a leader, her husband and other church leaders owe it to their community members to stand up for those being treated poorly as well as to stand up for the souls of those indulging in cruel actions toward others. It is certainly, as John said, worthwhile to reflect on one's own contributions--perhaps being too rigid or too demanding or somehow approaching rules without a spirit of teaching or love--but even if there are things for Jaycee to sort out, so too are there behaviors from those few members that are unChristlike behavior. It is concerning, as a woman, to see in the comments such virulent hatred of women from so many male listeners, and to see so many assume first the worst and most stereotypical tropes about women: sends her restaurant food back, provokes fights for fun to watch a man fight for her, she's a problem, enjoys drama... There seems to be a significant viewership who follow this to hate-watch, dismiss John as being somehow "unmanly" because he values women as people, and to talk about women in the most denigrating manner. It's a sad state of affairs of those men that they hate women so much. It's a sad thing for this caller that her husband did not stand up for her against truly bad behavior...even if to speak to the ringleader/s about Biblical expectations of treatment of others. Even if Jaycee herself could reflect and modify her own approach or wording or tone or expectations to be gentler (or more-something), she still deserves to be treated as the others would wish themselves or their loved ones to be treated. Encouraging self-reflection in her or talking to her about her approach does not exclude talking to those treating her poorly or vice versa--IF she has a problem. And whether or not she, too, could reflect, the others definitely have a problem with how they treat people in general and specifically their co-congregants. Church leaders or brethren need to speak to those engaging in name-calling and bullying--for any reason and with any provocation--since they are endangering their own souls. As John would say, it is possible for this to be "both-and."
I feel like we're not getting the full story here. Just from the way she's telling the story, it feels like she's not telling the whole truth here. It's like she called in for some sort of validation of her feelings, rather than trying to genuinely figure out what is going on in her social dealings. Now, I hope this is not true. If I had to guess what is actually happening here she is probably very sensitive but also quite verbal when she disagrees with things. That is not a good pairing of traits when you enter a new work environment. I would very much like to hear the husbands story or perhaps someone from one of the churches that has had dealings with her.
Sometimes HR issues are being handled but the Office Manager may not be privy to the details because that would be unethical and /or unprofessional. HR issues are handled on a need to know basis for legal purposes as well
So her husband seem to have good experiences with the 3 churches that they worked at, but she seems to have bad experiences with the 3 churches they worked at, and each time there's a problem, she expects her husband tp come fight on her behalf.....yea, i think the husband knows where the problem lies.
Churches are imperfect places. With imperfect people. It is a hospital… not a museum. As a Christian myself, I have left a church, but it usually is because of stuff that was unbiblical. People expect churches to be perfect. I’m not saying this situation is that, but I am a Pastor’s daughter and I have seen stuff behind the scenes that most people don’t understand. The man was a jerk in this situation, but there may be a situation that we don’t understand. But Dr. John is right, the husband should have been there.
These comments are gross. If you’ve never been in professional ministry and experienced heartbreak, you don’t really have a valid opinion. Churches are all about power structures! The people who tithe the most bully and degrade others. When you’re young and in ministry, you’re an easy target. I was in ministry for over 10 years and we were in staff at sooo many churches because the turnover is insane. It’s definitely not for me. People judging me and watching me constantly, always trying to find fault in me. No thanks.
Thank you for saying something. I personally know people who've left ministry altogether and will not go back to church because of how Christians and pastors have treated them. Usually the abuse comes from people in authority or people who only go to church to make themselves feel good and aren't there to love and serve others. The comments on here are disingenuous.
@@Arnold-mq6rw yes! That was my experience. I no longer go to church because I refuse to support something that I’ve seen cause more harm to others than good
8:47: "I wouldn't give that church another thought." Ephesians 4:32 If a person cannot find forgiveness in their heart, they are placing themselves above God. If God can forgive, who are we not to? Woe is me if I left a church every time someone acted like a Christian - yes, a sinner saved by grace, but still a sinner - until the time we become perfect in heaven one day. If people have sought out a church to attend whose doctrine directly aligns with the Word of God - the (whole) Bible - then don't let your attention dangerously drift from THAT - everything else is insignificant. No matter another person's wrongful actions…accept that NO ONE, including yourself, is perfect. Pray for the people you struggle to love, that God will show you how to love them through Him. Then leave your burdens at the cross for God to deal with. He. Never. Fails.
The church can be such a mess with its church politics. At a college ministry I was on leadership for, they allowed this one guy who didn’t even call himself a Christian to be their worship leader and then brought him on staff as an assistant director and he started running the place like a cult and our at the time pastor was too weak to stand up to him. After a long year of trying to conform, I finally left and the ministry “died” only a few months later. And there was another time a few years later I felt a church overlooked me and my talents in favor of other people who were “close to the leadership.” I know I may have been part of the problem in my situations and I don’t know who all was completely in the wrong here, but what I am saying is I feel her pain and her emotions are very valid.
I understand the comments about her taking a step back and examining what they could be doing. But I think Dr. Delony is saying is, you are going to end up facing people your whole who only long for power and strive endlessly to aquiry it. It’s up to you to decide how to respond to it. Example, you’re a young politician wanting to serve your people. You will encounter many who state that is also their purpose but their main agenda is anything but that.
Friends of the family have pastored a few churches that were failing and were brought in to save them. It didnt save them and their kids had s hard life of moving around. My grandpa was a pastor that experienced bad churches that were very political.
I can see right through this woman. She is absolutely a drama queen and starts problems everywhere she goes, but will be the first one to say she hates drama.
Could be the "old timers" vs the "newbie". Most organizations, religious or otherwise do not like new people coming in and trying to update or change their traditions and cultures. I agree with others this could be a major donation contributor or have been their for 50 years, and no way are they going to ask him to leave. Also, weak leadership or board could be letting it slide because he says what they are thinking. Either way, you don't allow people to talk to you that way. You have to call them out on their behavior in the moment. Learning how to deal with difficult people is part of LIFE and may need to tough up and develop a thick skin.
If th ppl attack you and your husband is a division polite words can cause damage or meaning hurt just as much as physically mobilizing actions there of in opinion of
But..... ok. They DO work at the same place but she's a separate employee and should not have to have her husband come to work to tell someone to stop being mean to her. I feel like she should go through proper authorities if she can't handle the harrassment herself. Unless her husband IS or WAS the proper authority, then i disagree with the advise that hubby needs to get involved. Obviously her marriage has some issues but getting your husband to run interference for you at your JOB.... sorry but no.
I think that them both working at the church is a conflict of interest. I think she should work somewhere different than the church. Her administrative skills could be used anywhere. I think if she were managing an office at a Home Depot or something, she would not be expecting her husband to protect her at work.
Most pastors just want a good salary with good benefits. Youre probably not called to be on staff at a church. Get out of the desire for a salary and good benefits. You have to be like Christ and care deeply about truth and grace.
Maybe the church was lenient with the supposedly abusive parishioner because he has a mental illness and they’re aware of that, while she’s new there and isn’t aware. Did she stop to think of that? I also didn’t like the way she said “he wasn’t even on staff”, it sounded like she thought she was above him. Guess what, a LOT of people working at churches are not on staff, they give back to the church by volunteering and her being on staff doesn’t make her better than them. She said she was the office manager, but only mentioned her husband “worked there” and had put in his 2 week notice… does that mean she continued working there or was only volunteering? Also, she said there’s rules in place that everyone has to follow and then she tells the guy “I’m creating these process for a reason, you need to follow these”… so are there rules, or was SHE creating rules and expecting everyone to obey her? Sounds like she’s trying to micromanage people and create systems and processes and was mad he wouldn’t let her boss him around when the rest of the office had fallen into line and obeyed her rules…. when they likely already had a system they were used to. And the way she said “I was the only one to stand up to him”… no, you were the only one bothered by him not obeying you, maybe to the rest of the office HE was the only one standing up to YOU. I’m guessing the husband didn’t defend her because he didn’t agree with her and is tired of having to step in when she has a history of repeatedly getting herself into situations. Yeah, if people keep having a problem with you, you might be the problem.
She didn’t have the spiritual or corporate (bc it was a j-o-b) authority to say anything to that man that has been there 25+ years - why was she tryna make him follow the procedures when she has no authority over that man? she should have gone direct to his leader and let his leader talk to the man. Then if the leaders don’t do things Biblically, she can decide whether to leave. …. It is also not her husband’s job/authority to confront the man. You need to go direct to people’s leaders! It’s a j-o-b. There is a corporate hierarchy in the workplace. Just bc it was a church makes no difference
Listen again, caller is employed in Church Administrative Office, bully at 3rd church is a volunteer, so she might not be his direct supervisor, but caller surely outranks him. It's not clear in this call if caller is top supervisor or a subordinate, but it is clear protocols were put in place, the only person to object to those protocols was the bully volunteer. Question is why did bully go on a personal attack just because of protocols? I suspect he might have been embezzling from this church for years, that's why he attacked her reputation instead of professionally challenging specific protocols.
@@jeromehenry4484 that is not how rank works. Let’s say there are 2 depts - Finance and Programs. If i am a Director of Finance and a volunteer in Programs department is acting out, i need to go to the Director of Programs (head of Programs) and have a convo. I only have authority over Finance, not over Programs.
Take notes men. This is why you don’t work a job with your wife/girlfriend. She’ll cause trouble and than expect you to come “fight” for her. What’s the old saying? Don’t crap where you eat?
@@MaxSujyReactsure did. This woman was an office stickler and rubbed people the wrong way. Now that her coworkers are tired of her crap she has to cry to her husband for help and by doing so now it sounds like they’ll both be out of a job. All because she had to go rock the boat and try to call shots with her new coworkers in a new office. Worst part is, she’s not even grown up enough to stand up for herself.
@@jillroper3279Notice how you didn’t refute anything I said. You just took a slight dig at me. You’re obviously very manipulative and I hope you find people that are loving toward you
Wait, we have historical evidence in support of life, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, isn't history a science too? If the word “science” refers to a given branch of knowledge or study, or a department of learning, then this definition applies to history. 🤔
I was abused at my church growing up. People tattle tale supposed "sins" to the bishop but the sins aren't theirs they're someone elses. The bishop believes them without any proof or talking to the accused and cps gets called on your family.... turns out the tattle tellers were psychotic and also the real abusers of their own children, they figured that because they abuse their own children everyone else does it too. And they would look good if they told on the other families in church. Try going back to church after your parents had to hide you from cps workers trying to prove that youve been touched and need to be taken from your evil parents for years and when the investigation is finally over all your church has to say is... oops! Sorry about that but you can't be too careful y'know? My parents almost divorced over that little oopsie. I've had so many adult spiritual leaders treat me bad just because i was a fat little girl and not pretty like the other girls. They literally had whole lessons about inclusiveness where they would bring me up to the front of sunday school class and compare my body to the other girl's and tell the whole class that just because i was fat and ugly they should still include me on activities.... if this chick runs a church shes a power grubbing loser. Screw organized more righteous than thou religion.
That sounds miserable and humiliating. I hope that you have found truly accepting and loving communities that embrace you. You deserve love and not being belittled.
Unfortanely is true. Even in Portugal is the same. You are not alone. Never forget why you were called and where your passion lies. Opportunities Will never ceasse to happen or you can create them. I’m praing for you. (Forgive my english for not being very good.) 🙏🩷
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The fact that she says that this has happened with multiple churches makes me think that there's more to this than she's letting on
The "more" that's going on is that churches are horribly judgemental, exclusive organizations. They hurt millions of people. And John won't even let her air her experience at her churches, because he doesn't want her to put the truth about churches out there.
Im glad John said this. I always squint my eyes and wonder about people who magically seem to have bad experiences with every job/community they join. There is no way it happens everywhere, you have to he doing something. Once is bad luck, twice is a coincidence, 3 times something else is going on.
She's probably the problem but doesn't want to accept self accountability.
If she has problems in 3 churches and doesn't get along with anyone and expects her husband to fight her problems for her (when she's the one causing the problem) then it's not good.
When you have bad experiences wherever you go, when the common denominator is you, then most likely, you are the problem.
That's what she fails to see.
I remember I had to ask myself that same question and realized I was the problem
I worked for a church as a cleaner and I told them from the beginning please let me know if they have any issues. Heard nothing but gossip about me. No one ever approached me about issues. But when I did I was labeled a person you can't talk too. I don't appreciate gossip when you see me daily and could tell me your concerns. Bottom line people complain instead of worrying about the big picture.
@@terriesmith2616did you listen to the whole thing before commenting?
It could be partially them, but there is a lot of severe dysfunction going on in the church. If that isn't addressed, and we just continue to blame congregants for leadership that might not be doctrinally and ethically sound, then the church will continue to splinter and spiral downward.
Sometimes i wish John would let his callers elaborate more. He jumps to conclusions and starts giving advhce without getting a full story or at least more details. Its so frustraiting.
Yes
Spot on…he is great in what he does but I think the dynamic of the show gets in the way sometimes, so he needs to kinda guide the conversation in a certain direction.
Thanks for saying this. He just assumes things about people and victim shames them (“common denominator” and bs) without listening to the full story. He bases everyone on past clients he’s had and it’s unfair to those people. There really are people who are easily attacked and bullied even as adults, and I absolutely hate people who victim shame. I feel like he just follows a guideline to cater to the people who fund his show or to advertise his book. At the end he doesn’t really give useful advice, but just tells people to “get a notebook and write things down.”
Ministry is done in the world, not in a building.
Amen!
Amen.
“Am I worth rescuing?” My husband did NOTHING when I was verbally abused & humiliated by his family. I cannot forgive him for that. It has affected my marriage, my self-esteem, EVERYTHING in my life. It’s very hard to forgive when you come third in your marriage.
Diplomatic way to say "I think, you're the problem". 😂
Well they obviously have a problem church where being called a Nazi… wtf 😳 also husband needs to become a man- not a beach 🏝️
My wife works at a church. The pastor was our friend and brought my wife on board when he first became pastor of that church because he knew she would be of value and her work ethic. Previously we also did ministry work in many churches, so I have a bit of an understanding. Point blank churches can be some of the most hostile organizations. If the pastor is weak or if leadership doesn’t step in and address behavior it becomes highly dysfunctional. The major reason being why they don’t is the donation factor. The person causing the drama could be a major donor, so they are allowed to rule the roost. Congregates also feel they have ownership because they’ve attended for years and have established cliques. If one old congregate doesn’t like you for whatever reason, they will spread their distaste to their clique. Old men especally love to wield their opinions and be aggressive towards women in the office if they don’t get their way. Females love to gossip and argue as if they are on a reality show. All this and more “Because the Holy Spirit told me I needed to address my concerns.” No, you’re just a terrible person using the Holy Spirit as an excuse to be a terrible person.
My wife is a strong woman, the hardest worker I know and stubborn. Which is why over time the majority of the members have accepted her because she had proven herself. She took the shots fired at her. Funny enough many of the congregants realize she is the backbone in keeping the church operational and does way more work than the pastor. Making him look good and while also taking the credit. Really she is the church administrator, but is kept at the title of secretary because of male egos and doctrine. Due to all the drama, the pastor constantly taking credit for her work, not defending her or being honest that he approached her for the job and not the other way around; I stopped attending. I couldn’t walk in that church anymore because I was ready to pick a fight. I had to remove myself from that environment. I don’t believe in the structure of the church anymore. We have an agreement that we don’t talk about the inner workings anymore unless it impacts her negatively. I realize I have a more fulfilling life without attending a toxic church or being clouded by church doctrine. I work with youth, majority of which don’t go to church. I am able to show I am a Christian and plant seeds of a faith without throwing church in their face. You don’t understand the countless times a student is shocked to hear I’m a Christian and then they follow up with “But, Your nice!” Yes, because I show you the love of Christ while also being tough and inspiring you to accomplish your goals using those principles.
Yes, oh what tangled webs we weave under the guise of a 501c3.
As a high school teacher I also get my 'jabs' in when I can. A wonderful captive audience, I am able to show them Christianity without talking about religion and 'the church' 🙂
People, she started crying when he talked about the issue of her husband not defending her. THAT is her actual heartbreak.
Read between the lines….
It got addressed
The church is a place of fellowship it’s a building, I have my own relationship with Christ that transcends Sunday service. Listening to this caller is why I’m very careful with how I participate in church activities because you are dealing with everyday people with the same flaws as everyone else.
Thank you for putting this idea into words I could not have possibly articulated myself. VERY well said. Thank you thank you thank you!!! 🙏 🎉 👏👏👏
You have a relationship with a 2000 year old myth?
@@nychris2258 Yes I have a relationship with the creator, I hope before your expiration date you do as well.
Churches attract people who like to be in charge, and since it's not a job, they think they can be bullies and get their way.
That being said, many wonderful people exist in that space too. It's both and.
I’ve noticed the same. Some of the biggest bullies and some of the kindest people.
Actually, it is a job. Maybe not for the congregants, but there are many positions in the church (which normally includes ministers) where people are paid.
The best and the very worst
Never would I have expected to hear "Jay-Z" and "Jesus" used in the same sentence 😂😂😂 Dr. Deloney hit the nail on the head on a lot of things (pun not intended). This was a great listen ❤
And ice cube with the “bye Felicia” reference seconds later
Did it ever occur to her that the bully "volunteer" has been skimming funds off the tithes/offerings? Her following rules/protocol has impeded his thieving.
🫨 good point
I don’t think its our place to conjure scenarios… being a jerk is bad enough.
Follow the money... that's most likely where the problem starts..
Thank you so much for saying that ministry doesn’t have to happen in church, it can be how you tip a waitress. That is a huge problem in our churches. We are made to feel that if you are not “working” inside the church building, you are not working for God.
Yes yes yes!❤❤❤
I feel like this may have to do with a power war at the church. She said she created the processes. I wonder if she got angry when people didn’t fall into their place as defined by her.
Churches are super toxic environment, even if this couple is partly to blame. Sounds like Delony speaks from experience about ministry in church vs outside of church. I know of another pastor, they were kicked out of the church in the worst way. He started his own ministry with addicts and has been very successful with that.
I'm rejected from my church and my husband cheated and left me. So I'm rejected from my husband as well! Lord Jesus 💔
were you and your husband virgins when you got married?
I’m so sorry. 😞 Jesus has promised that He will never leave you. Father God loves you with an everlasting and forever love. No matter what any person may do to you, you are accepted, loved, pleasing, and valued for exactly who you are by God, and I hope you know that and can go to Him and read the Word and believe His promises. I am so very sorry that these things have happened to you. I pray you find healing and healthy relationships. 🙏🏼💝🌻
I’m soo sorry to hear that:( God is with you ❤❤ you aren’t alone!
I'm so sorry. Praying for God's peace for you, and enriching you with a solid Godly community.
I worked at a church as a cleaner and everything is done behind your back. When they have a issue they talk behind your back instead of coming to you so they can solve the problem. One time the daycare director wrote me a note to get these 2 stains out of the kitchen and classroom floor and that I needed to clean them properly! Funny thing she had been there for months by then and those stains were there when I got there....those stains were not coming out! Pick much?
Churches put it down for passive aggressiveness. I had a friend who was a youth pastor and I couldn't believe how wishy washy him and his entire family were.
This is how every church is. It's absolutely madness to put yourself through this. You are always having to apologize for being you, meanwhile the leaders and cliques expect you to take them as they are.
Not true. Not every church is demon possessed.
Two things. Firstly this happens to them everywhere they go. Second, when she was affronted, the entire establishment was indifferent, her husband included.
That tells me that unfortunately people may not like you in particular. Great point Dr J made about being a common denominator.
People tend to rise in defense when someone earnest is being mistreated, but will look the other way if there's fundamental dislike for them.
My guess is husband is tired of running back and forth to help with her fires and isn't happy about having to up-end another program he's passionate about over her
She seems like a capable person who takes her job seriously. Unfortunately non profit organizations are populated with nincompoops.
@@carylhalfwassen8555 yeah but if it's every single one, come on, you sound like this lady
People a majority of people don’t actually don’t tend to say anything or rise to the defense of someone being mistreated. They stand around apathetic claiming they don’t want to be in the middle even when they no a behavior is wrong, or they don’t consider it their fight, or they think someone did something to justify being treated poorly. Some institutions by their very nature and power structure are toxic environments especially churches.
Might just be a personality conflict. If she comes off as controlling or bossy she'll make enemies everywhere she goes.
As a teen I moved from a Protestant denomination to the Catholic Church due to how poorly our youth paster was treated. In my late 50's I moved on from Christianity due to the patriarchy, abuser scandal, etc. The church is in big trouble. I happily identify as spiritual but not religious. Took me so long due to fear and being a rule follower. Recommend Sue M. Kidd's Dance of the Dissident Daughter.
Yes humans always fail but our Heavenly Father is always faithful. Jesus is always with us when people walk away. Our relationship with Him is the most important.
She doesn't need to work at the church. It sounds like she might be inflexible with her rules and procedures.
When she said multiple churches hurt me, I'm telling you my BS radar went off. That was affirmed when she talked about a mean guy at the church office. This is just the same everywhere.
It took me a very long time to realize that simply because a building is labeled a church, doesn't mean the people are nice. Just when I thought I had healed from the hurt I had experienced before from church goers, a series of small events tipped my anxiety over the edge and was fueled by my post partum anxiety and depression.. One day, I'll be back to being able to fully participate in our church, for now, I cannot but I will keep going because it's 90% in my head and my past trauma I have to deal with.
May you heal and find peace and love.🙏❤️
Many at church operate out of an orphan spirit and need lots of love and prayer and leaders who are being led by The Holy Spirit who have the eyes and ears to see them. We all have to see past the facade of showing up to church pretending we are active in our faith when we are actually not. Because when those individuals become leaders - like Dr John said, they use religion as weapon or they actively try to hurt well meaning church staff and members. Surrender and forgiveness and receiving the fullness of Gods love and grace is always the way forward.
No such thing as an orphan spirit. That is church/charismatic jargon.
John knock this advice out of the park!
I appreciate John pointing out that the most painful hurt was that her husband didn't stand up for her. Many commenters are assuming (perhaps rightly) that her husband didn't agree with her stance. However, the way that people spoke to her, the degree of cruelty and repetition of their reported comments, as a leader, her husband and other church leaders owe it to their community members to stand up for those being treated poorly as well as to stand up for the souls of those indulging in cruel actions toward others. It is certainly, as John said, worthwhile to reflect on one's own contributions--perhaps being too rigid or too demanding or somehow approaching rules without a spirit of teaching or love--but even if there are things for Jaycee to sort out, so too are there behaviors from those few members that are unChristlike behavior.
It is concerning, as a woman, to see in the comments such virulent hatred of women from so many male listeners, and to see so many assume first the worst and most stereotypical tropes about women: sends her restaurant food back, provokes fights for fun to watch a man fight for her, she's a problem, enjoys drama...
There seems to be a significant viewership who follow this to hate-watch, dismiss John as being somehow "unmanly" because he values women as people, and to talk about women in the most denigrating manner. It's a sad state of affairs of those men that they hate women so much.
It's a sad thing for this caller that her husband did not stand up for her against truly bad behavior...even if to speak to the ringleader/s about Biblical expectations of treatment of others. Even if Jaycee herself could reflect and modify her own approach or wording or tone or expectations to be gentler (or more-something), she still deserves to be treated as the others would wish themselves or their loved ones to be treated. Encouraging self-reflection in her or talking to her about her approach does not exclude talking to those treating her poorly or vice versa--IF she has a problem. And whether or not she, too, could reflect, the others definitely have a problem with how they treat people in general and specifically their co-congregants. Church leaders or brethren need to speak to those engaging in name-calling and bullying--for any reason and with any provocation--since they are endangering their own souls. As John would say, it is possible for this to be "both-and."
Very well-said!
I feel like we're not getting the full story here. Just from the way she's telling the story, it feels like she's not telling the whole truth here. It's like she called in for some sort of validation of her feelings, rather than trying to genuinely figure out what is going on in her social dealings. Now, I hope this is not true. If I had to guess what is actually happening here she is probably very sensitive but also quite verbal when she disagrees with things. That is not a good pairing of traits when you enter a new work environment. I would very much like to hear the husbands story or perhaps someone from one of the churches that has had dealings with her.
The story is not adding up. John right it’s not for her
John..you are 100% right about needing to stand up to these power hungry bullies. We all need to say enough.
Sometimes HR issues are being handled but the Office Manager may not be privy to the details because that would be unethical and /or unprofessional. HR issues are handled on a need to know basis for legal purposes as well
I ask people to ask themselves, what are you bringing to the table?
She brings conflict and a victim mindset.
Love your views on ministry!!!!! ❤
So her husband seem to have good experiences with the 3 churches that they worked at, but she seems to have bad experiences with the 3 churches they worked at, and each time there's a problem, she expects her husband tp come fight on her behalf.....yea, i think the husband knows where the problem lies.
Churches are imperfect places. With imperfect people. It is a hospital… not a museum. As a Christian myself, I have left a church, but it usually is because of stuff that was unbiblical. People expect churches to be perfect.
I’m not saying this situation is that, but I am a Pastor’s daughter and I have seen stuff behind the scenes that most people don’t understand. The man was a jerk in this situation, but there may be a situation that we don’t understand. But Dr. John is right, the husband should have been there.
How do you have 3 bad church experiences?
Easy. Go work in a church and you’ll find out real quickly
@@engagedanddivorcedpodcastso maybe choose a different job?
People who work in churches are often people who have serious personal issues and work in churches because they can't handle real jobs.
Soooo easily…
I live in northern MN like the caller... People are mean. I won't set foot in a church up here. Life is too short to deal with nasty-asses on a daily.
These comments are gross. If you’ve never been in professional ministry and experienced heartbreak, you don’t really have a valid opinion. Churches are all about power structures! The people who tithe the most bully and degrade others. When you’re young and in ministry, you’re an easy target. I was in ministry for over 10 years and we were in staff at sooo many churches because the turnover is insane. It’s definitely not for me. People judging me and watching me constantly, always trying to find fault in me. No thanks.
Thank you for saying something. I personally know people who've left ministry altogether and will not go back to church because of how Christians and pastors have treated them. Usually the abuse comes from people in authority or people who only go to church to make themselves feel good and aren't there to love and serve others. The comments on here are disingenuous.
@@Arnold-mq6rw yes! That was my experience. I no longer go to church because I refuse to support something that I’ve seen cause more harm to others than good
We have had jobs, different organizations same problems. It all starts from the top.
You want her to examine herself but then cut her off when she talks about the situation?
8:47: "I wouldn't give that church another thought." Ephesians 4:32 If a person cannot find forgiveness in their heart, they are placing themselves above God. If God can forgive, who are we not to? Woe is me if I left a church every time someone acted like a Christian - yes, a sinner saved by grace, but still a sinner - until the time we become perfect in heaven one day. If people have sought out a church to attend whose doctrine directly aligns with the Word of God - the (whole) Bible - then don't let your attention dangerously drift from THAT - everything else is insignificant. No matter another person's wrongful actions…accept that NO ONE, including yourself, is perfect. Pray for the people you struggle to love, that God will show you how to love them through Him. Then leave your burdens at the cross for God to deal with. He. Never. Fails.
The church can be such a mess with its church politics. At a college ministry I was on leadership for, they allowed this one guy who didn’t even call himself a Christian to be their worship leader and then brought him on staff as an assistant director and he started running the place like a cult and our at the time pastor was too weak to stand up to him. After a long year of trying to conform, I finally left and the ministry “died” only a few months later. And there was another time a few years later I felt a church overlooked me and my talents in favor of other people who were “close to the leadership.” I know I may have been part of the problem in my situations and I don’t know who all was completely in the wrong here, but what I am saying is I feel her pain and her emotions are very valid.
I understand the comments about her taking a step back and examining what they could be doing. But I think Dr. Delony is saying is, you are going to end up facing people your whole who only long for power and strive endlessly to aquiry it. It’s up to you to decide how to respond to it. Example, you’re a young politician wanting to serve your people. You will encounter many who state that is also their purpose but their main agenda is anything but that.
I tend to be pretty exhausted by the die hard rule sticklers. Not sure that’s what’s going on here, but the thought did occur to me…
Amen Dr John
Friends of the family have pastored a few churches that were failing and were brought in to save them. It didnt save them and their kids had s hard life of moving around. My grandpa was a pastor that experienced bad churches that were very political.
My heart goes out to those kids that were thrown under the bus “for the sake of the cause”. I was a pastor’s daughter.
Her husband is really going to regret she called JD. Lol
I literally cannot finish this one. Oof.
I can see right through this woman. She is absolutely a drama queen and starts problems everywhere she goes, but will be the first one to say she hates drama.
Could be the "old timers" vs the "newbie". Most organizations, religious or otherwise do not like new people coming in and trying to update or change their traditions and cultures. I agree with others this could be a major donation contributor or have been their for 50 years, and no way are they going to ask him to leave. Also, weak leadership or board could be letting it slide because he says what they are thinking. Either way, you don't allow people to talk to you that way. You have to call them out on their behavior in the moment. Learning how to deal with difficult people is part of LIFE and may need to tough up and develop a thick skin.
If th ppl attack you and your husband is a division polite words can cause damage or meaning hurt just as much as physically mobilizing actions there of in opinion of
Don’t let your children be unsupervised with any pastor.>.
Best way forward is out.
This woman sends her food back so many times they comp the meal.
I hope!
Honestly though, a lot of religious institutions are just toxic. I’m a religious person but I’ve given up on the institutional side of it.
This caller sounds like conflict 😣
Hubbie knows where the problem lies.
1:10 seconds into the show, this lady is sus.
If it's happening everywhere you go, you're the problem.
Going to the same kind of church. Do not go to a small church. These people keep leaving and going somewhere else.
Lol, 3 churches hates her. Thats sounds that church life isn't for her.
But..... ok. They DO work at the same place but she's a separate employee and should not have to have her husband come to work to tell someone to stop being mean to her. I feel like she should go through proper authorities if she can't handle the harrassment herself. Unless her husband IS or WAS the proper authority, then i disagree with the advise that hubby needs to get involved. Obviously her marriage has some issues but getting your husband to run interference for you at your JOB.... sorry but no.
Here before people will flood this comment section with their thoughts on this situation 😅
I think that them both working at the church is a conflict of interest. I think she should work somewhere different than the church. Her administrative skills could be used anywhere. I think if she were managing an office at a Home Depot or something, she would not be expecting her husband to protect her at work.
Most pastors just want a good salary with good benefits. Youre probably not called to be on staff at a church. Get out of the desire for a salary and good benefits. You have to be like Christ and care deeply about truth and grace.
I was going to say, find another denomination, churches don’t want people bringing in their own ideologies.
Right
Went in naive and came out wise. Done.
I cant do church anymore.
I bet my savings it's the wife....not the church, not the husband...she's the red flag. H
I mean…you meet 1 a$$hole during the day-they’re an a$$hole. You meet THREE a$$holes, maybe you’re the problem?
Maybe the church was lenient with the supposedly abusive parishioner because he has a mental illness and they’re aware of that, while she’s new there and isn’t aware. Did she stop to think of that? I also didn’t like the way she said “he wasn’t even on staff”, it sounded like she thought she was above him. Guess what, a LOT of people working at churches are not on staff, they give back to the church by volunteering and her being on staff doesn’t make her better than them.
She said she was the office manager, but only mentioned her husband “worked there” and had put in his 2 week notice… does that mean she continued working there or was only volunteering? Also, she said there’s rules in place that everyone has to follow and then she tells the guy “I’m creating these process for a reason, you need to follow these”… so are there rules, or was SHE creating rules and expecting everyone to obey her? Sounds like she’s trying to micromanage people and create systems and processes and was mad he wouldn’t let her boss him around when the rest of the office had fallen into line and obeyed her rules…. when they likely already had a system they were used to. And the way she said “I was the only one to stand up to him”… no, you were the only one bothered by him not obeying you, maybe to the rest of the office HE was the only one standing up to YOU.
I’m guessing the husband didn’t defend her because he didn’t agree with her and is tired of having to step in when she has a history of repeatedly getting herself into situations.
Yeah, if people keep having a problem with you, you might be the problem.
All.Of.This.
All my youth leaders were gutless wonders
She didn’t have the spiritual or corporate (bc it was a j-o-b) authority to say anything to that man that has been there 25+ years - why was she tryna make him follow the procedures when she has no authority over that man?
she should have gone direct to his leader and let his leader talk to the man.
Then if the leaders don’t do things Biblically, she can decide whether to leave.
…. It is also not her husband’s job/authority to confront the man.
You need to go direct to people’s leaders! It’s a j-o-b. There is a corporate hierarchy in the workplace.
Just bc it was a church makes no difference
Listen again, caller is employed in Church Administrative Office, bully at 3rd church is a volunteer, so she might not be his direct supervisor, but caller surely outranks him. It's not clear in this call if caller is top supervisor or a subordinate, but it is clear protocols were put in place, the only person to object to those protocols was the bully volunteer. Question is why did bully go on a personal attack just because of protocols? I suspect he might have been embezzling from this church for years, that's why he attacked her reputation instead of professionally challenging specific protocols.
@@jeromehenry4484 that is not how rank works. Let’s say there are 2 depts - Finance and Programs. If i am a Director of Finance and a volunteer in Programs department is acting out, i need to go to the Director of Programs (head of Programs) and have a convo. I only have authority over Finance, not over Programs.
@@jacqueline8566 If bully volunteer is in a totally different department, then why is he so strident about protocols that don't effect his department?
@@jacqueline8566I know it's wrong but we say something like, dont speak with the dog, speak with the dog's owner 😊.
@12:08 Really?.. Like the horrible girls that get their boyfriend into a bar fight to enjoy the drama. Just find a new place to work and move on.
I wish her husband would have been there for her
🐊😢
Maybe she is the problem and her husband knows it?
Hmmmm.......
Idk I think she’s the problem..
She is literally the problem😂
Take notes men. This is why you don’t work a job with your wife/girlfriend. She’ll cause trouble and than expect you to come “fight” for her. What’s the old saying? Don’t crap where you eat?
Did you watch the video...?
Sounds like a you problem.
@@MaxSujyReactsure did. This woman was an office stickler and rubbed people the wrong way. Now that her coworkers are tired of her crap she has to cry to her husband for help and by doing so now it sounds like they’ll both be out of a job. All because she had to go rock the boat and try to call shots with her new coworkers in a new office. Worst part is, she’s not even grown up enough to stand up for herself.
@@jillroper3279Notice how you didn’t refute anything I said. You just took a slight dig at me. You’re obviously very manipulative and I hope you find people that are loving toward you
@@briskettacosNah, sounds like a her problem. She can’t handle other adults and now needs a white knight to come in and fight her battles.
She is the problem.
The worst description of the bible I've ever heard.
People who work at church for a paycheck need help lol
Grateful every day to be an Atheist. I trust solid science, not silly superstition.
Wait, we have historical evidence in support of life, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, isn't history a science too? If the word “science” refers to a given branch of knowledge or study, or a department of learning, then this definition applies to history. 🤔
No fighting no fighting no fighting
Congratulations on being so super, duper smart
This call is about politics, which is everywhere.
Such a stupid comment.
Are we still talking about a sky fairy? Abolish all religion
I was abused at my church growing up. People tattle tale supposed "sins" to the bishop but the sins aren't theirs they're someone elses. The bishop believes them without any proof or talking to the accused and cps gets called on your family.... turns out the tattle tellers were psychotic and also the real abusers of their own children, they figured that because they abuse their own children everyone else does it too. And they would look good if they told on the other families in church. Try going back to church after your parents had to hide you from cps workers trying to prove that youve been touched and need to be taken from your evil parents for years and when the investigation is finally over all your church has to say is... oops! Sorry about that but you can't be too careful y'know? My parents almost divorced over that little oopsie. I've had so many adult spiritual leaders treat me bad just because i was a fat little girl and not pretty like the other girls. They literally had whole lessons about inclusiveness where they would bring me up to the front of sunday school class and compare my body to the other girl's and tell the whole class that just because i was fat and ugly they should still include me on activities.... if this chick runs a church shes a power grubbing loser. Screw organized more righteous than thou religion.
That sounds miserable and humiliating. I hope that you have found truly accepting and loving communities that embrace you. You deserve love and not being belittled.
Unfortanely is true. Even in Portugal is the same. You are not alone. Never forget why you were called and where your passion lies. Opportunities Will never ceasse to happen or you can create them. I’m praing for you. (Forgive my english for not being very good.) 🙏🩷