Yeah it could be, but the jump in price is still kind of nuts. I remember buying a piece for around $180 and now that same piece is $200-something. But I could be remembering wrong, not sure.
Seems like a good plan. I don't understand why you would spend that kind of money on that steal unless you were working in a extremely corrosion environment. Im really liking 14c28n a steal made for knives. But i personally like carbon steel. I was interested in get 8670 after watching joe x not be able to destroy a knife in it. Im more in the toughness easy sharpening side. But im heat treating myself. So far 5160 has been great. Ive stayed away from 3v because ive heard stories about how its hard to work with. Maybe that's not the right wording. My buddy said he went through belts on his grinder when it usually only took a belt a blade. (Not real but figuratively)
Yeah, I finally feel like I can do a prototypes with cheaper steels. I want to carry this knife up against me and when I go out running, I’ve come across random dogs before. I currently use my H1 knife but I don’t really like it. I sweat enough that I do think Lc200n is necessary. I would use Vanax but I can’t find a 2” piece. I’ll look into 14c28n, I always appreciate your suggestions. I’m trying to go with tough enough and as thin as possible for what I need, for knives now. It’s great that you’re doing your own heat treatment on your knives. I personally don’t want to go down that rabbit hole. Even though there’s a lot of information out there I would probably go crazy from testing. I do think that if I truly wanted to learn about knives I might need to try it in the future though. 3v is a pain to work with, especially when hand sanding. But jumping from K390 to 3v has made 3v seem a little easier. Once you get used to the steps of making a knife it feels the same except you do go through more consumables like your friend mentioned. It’s cool to know your continuing knife making.
Roman Landes Heat Treatment recommendation: Now this is what I would recommend for heat treat cpm 3v: 1st preheat: 500-600°C, equalize 2nd preheat:800-900°C, equalize Authenize: 1060-1070°C, equalize, soak 30-35min Quench in Oil preheated 60-80°C Cryo: immediately after cleaning, minimum -80°C or lower soak 30min 1st Temper: 150°C equalize, soak 2hrs, quench in water Cryo: immediately after temper 2nd Temper: 180-200°C equalize, soak 2hrs should give you 60+ and a fine durable grain. RGDS Roman This is why I would do it like this. The "receipt" suitable is for a vacuum furnace (Quench with maximum pressure) or a regular cline, but surface protection has to be assured. Salt bath will cut the soak time approximately by 1/3 and thus give better aust-grain. The preheating steps will assure the the austenization steps can be done quick. Quicker speed >> smaller grain Authenization temperature is dedicated to dissolve Chrome and Molybdenum >> fair hardness and some enhanced "Stainresistance" is to be expected. The vanadium will remain in the steel bond as a compound of carbon, hence aust-grain cant really grow The oil quench is suitable for any steel out of the air hardening classes. The thin cross sections get higher hardness after quench (greater volume fraction of martensite) and a less stabilized volume fraction retained austenite. (The volume fraction of RA can be expected (near guess) between 20 and 30% or even higher) Warping of the blade shall not be an issue with these materials. If you have done a lot of hard mechanical work before hardening (milling, grinding,)then do a stress relief so warping gets less likely. The cryo needs to be done as quick as possible below -80°C. RA tends to stabilize rather quickly after the quench (some reports speak of minutes) The longer you wait, the less efficient the transformation to untempered martensite will be. And a minimum of -70°C is necessary to get enough stress into the micro structure, so the transformation (RA>>Martensite) process can restart again. Extensive soak time is not necessary since the process runs at hypersonic speed. But still there will be remains of RA that need to be addressed by the 2nd cryo. The first temper is a low temper so the remaining RA is stabilized at the lowest level possible and at the same time there is enough stress relief in the martensite that has been built and furthermore the transformation from tetragonal to cubic martensite is started. The water quench speeds the whole thing up and avoids precipitation of embrittling phases. Then the rest of the remaining RA will be attacked by the 2nd cryo (usually the RA will drop below 5% volume fraction) so burr formation is less likely. 2nd temper will now temper the untempered martensite build up by the cryo and bring the blade to a fully tempered martensitic structure with a low volume fraction of RA and a fair amount of carbides undissolved. Of course there is the question why not temper it at 540°C? First of all, if you don't have access to cryo then this is your way to go. In my studies of edge stability I did extensive work to compare secondary hardening and low temper with cryo. The results (reference is my graduate thesis 1999 Munich University of Applied Sciences) I found considerable higher edge stability with the samples that had low temper/cryo The material used at the time was ATS-34 all with the same charge and thus the same condition of austinization, but with different temper cycles. RGDS Roman
LC200N is probably so pricey because not many use it aside from industrial use - so smaller amounts made in flat bar stock - maybe
Yeah it could be, but the jump in price is still kind of nuts. I remember buying a piece for around $180 and now that same piece is $200-something. But I could be remembering wrong, not sure.
Seems like a good plan. I don't understand why you would spend that kind of money on that steal unless you were working in a extremely corrosion environment.
Im really liking 14c28n a steal made for knives.
But i personally like carbon steel. I was interested in get 8670 after watching joe x not be able to destroy a knife in it.
Im more in the toughness easy sharpening side. But im heat treating myself. So far 5160 has been great.
Ive stayed away from 3v because ive heard stories about how its hard to work with. Maybe that's not the right wording. My buddy said he went through belts on his grinder when it usually only took a belt a blade. (Not real but figuratively)
Yeah, I finally feel like I can do a prototypes with cheaper steels. I want to carry this knife up against me and when I go out running, I’ve come across random dogs before. I currently use my H1 knife but I don’t really like it. I sweat enough that I do think Lc200n is necessary. I would use Vanax but I can’t find a 2” piece.
I’ll look into 14c28n, I always appreciate your suggestions.
I’m trying to go with tough enough and as thin as possible for what I need, for knives now.
It’s great that you’re doing your own heat treatment on your knives. I personally don’t want to go down that rabbit hole. Even though there’s a lot of information out there I would probably go crazy from testing. I do think that if I truly wanted to learn about knives I might need to try it in the future though.
3v is a pain to work with, especially when hand sanding. But jumping from K390 to 3v has made 3v seem a little easier. Once you get used to the steps of making a knife it feels the same except you do go through more consumables like your friend mentioned. It’s cool to know your continuing knife making.
Roman Landes Heat Treatment recommendation:
Now this is what I would recommend for heat treat cpm 3v:
1st preheat: 500-600°C, equalize
2nd preheat:800-900°C, equalize
Authenize: 1060-1070°C, equalize, soak 30-35min
Quench in Oil preheated 60-80°C
Cryo: immediately after cleaning, minimum -80°C or lower soak 30min
1st Temper: 150°C equalize, soak 2hrs, quench in water
Cryo: immediately after temper
2nd Temper: 180-200°C equalize, soak 2hrs
should give you 60+ and a fine durable grain. RGDS Roman
This is why I would do it like this.
The "receipt" suitable is for a vacuum furnace (Quench with maximum pressure) or a regular cline, but surface protection has to be assured.
Salt bath will cut the soak time approximately by 1/3 and thus give better aust-grain.
The preheating steps will assure the the austenization steps can be done quick. Quicker speed >> smaller grain
Authenization temperature is dedicated to dissolve Chrome and Molybdenum >> fair hardness and some enhanced "Stainresistance" is to be expected.
The vanadium will remain in the steel bond as a compound of carbon, hence aust-grain cant really grow
The oil quench is suitable for any steel out of the air hardening classes. The thin cross sections get higher hardness after quench (greater volume fraction of martensite) and a less stabilized volume fraction retained austenite. (The volume fraction of RA can be expected (near guess) between 20 and 30% or even higher)
Warping of the blade shall not be an issue with these materials.
If you have done a lot of hard mechanical work before hardening (milling, grinding,)then do a stress relief so warping gets less likely.
The cryo needs to be done as quick as possible below -80°C.
RA tends to stabilize rather quickly after the quench (some reports speak of minutes)
The longer you wait, the less efficient the transformation to untempered martensite will be.
And a minimum of -70°C is necessary to get enough stress into the micro structure, so the transformation (RA>>Martensite) process can restart again.
Extensive soak time is not necessary since the process runs at hypersonic speed.
But still there will be remains of RA that need to be addressed by the 2nd cryo.
The first temper is a low temper so the remaining RA is stabilized at the lowest level possible and at the same time there is enough stress relief in the martensite that has been built and furthermore the transformation from tetragonal to cubic martensite is started.
The water quench speeds the whole thing up and avoids precipitation of embrittling phases.
Then the rest of the remaining RA will be attacked by the 2nd cryo (usually the RA will drop below 5% volume fraction) so burr formation is less likely.
2nd temper will now temper the untempered martensite build up by the cryo and bring the blade to a fully tempered martensitic structure with a low volume fraction of RA and a fair amount of carbides undissolved.
Of course there is the question why not temper it at 540°C?
First of all, if you don't have access to cryo then this is your way to go.
In my studies of edge stability I did extensive work to compare secondary hardening and low temper with cryo.
The results (reference is my graduate thesis 1999 Munich University of Applied Sciences) I found considerable higher edge stability with the samples that had low temper/cryo The material used at the time was ATS-34 all with the same charge and thus the same condition of austinization, but with different temper cycles.
RGDS Roman
@@tacticalcenter8658 beautiful. Thank you for sharing this. It’s thorough and comprehensive. I appreciate it.