I use the cyclonic, just looking at it after a bit of driving I can see how much dirt has not gone into the air filter. A top spin would probably work even better but too expensive for me.
That's probably why they're so popular on earth moving machinery etc. I also can't see the cyclonic seperaters providing too much addtional air flow restriction as they fill up, unlike an addtional filter.
Are you going to do more parts to this video? I’m so interested to see them tested even more! As you said, dust and water ingress would be great to see tested! I don’t think anyone had ever done a proper in depth video on this? I could be wrong! I love my Donaldson but personally I don’t see it pick up water but I never get big rain down south Australia. Other than that it’s perfect for bugs and sand in my personal experience! Love the videos keep them coming!
I've had my Patrol Cab Chassis for 18 months, and been using a Cyclonic Pre-filter Head for the past 12 months. I find my Filter is much cleaner, and need to empty the cyclonic head about once a month of fine dirt/dust particles driving around Sydney. When raining, if heavy I would need to watch the cyclonic head and empty captured water on a daily bases, if light rain or drizzle for a day or two, water would collect over two or three days, but would evaporates after a day of no rain, even quicker in summer. A Cyclonic Pre-filter Head is a no brainer for me
I'm becoming a big fan of the cyclonic heads, though I think there can be improvements to the design to increase efficiency. I might have to fire up Solidworks!
Me, too mate, bloody lockdowns, I think were up to #6 in Vic! Or seven, they seem to be running into each other! Rest assured, I'm still plugging away at this one. Instead of doing it in the feild, I think I worked out a way to do the testing properly in the backyard. I'm designing the bits and peices in CAD and have just picked up a 3D printer to knock them up for the wind tunnel. It's still a little while off, but I think the wait will be worth it.
Wouldn't mind being able to swap in the cyclonic when off-road and leave the standard Ram Air on while on road. Another thing to carry... But best of both worlds.
Awesome mate. The Donaldson sure did better than I expected. In saying that, as they do seperate up to 75% of dust before it enters the engine air filter, I think it would be a great addition to the 4x4.
I couldn't believe how well the Donaldson worked either! I had to double check the footage when I was compliling the results, I though it must have been wrong. We'll check how well it works for dust and water in upcoming videos, but I'm impressed so far!
Great bid man. Super informative and unbiased! I had considered a SS 4" for the TD42T... Now... Not so much! I'm sticking with the safari and forwards ram head and putting a sock on it as required. 🍻
Have you done part three? Can't find it but am as keen as mustard as I run a cyclonic head on my Safari snorkel. Dust, bugs be and rain water, it collects them all as a prefilter works terrific.
Super great awsome stuff. A part from the sock I would have stated those results with the forward ram head being the winner. I have had the debate with way too many people with rear facing very expensive SS snorkels trying to explane that a rear facing head is a bad idea due to the negative (sucking) pressure that it causes. Thank you for demonstrating that. Do you know where the idea first came from? Well I understand it came from off road and mud racing and it was not for a performance issue. It was to stop lumps of dirt and or mud from going down the snorkel and into the air filter that was thrown up by the car in front. 🤗
I think now unless you're driving a mud bogging comp 4x4 you would be silly to go with a backward facing SS snorkel. Though unfortunately they still seem to be selling plenty.
I knew! i went best of both worlds 5inch stanless with a 5in ram with a cyclone head i swap in and out depending on conditions. Got the mandrel bent big pipe for max flow, polished for looking sweet and a big ram to shovel extra air in. Actually dropped 180°C of my egts
We'll see how they fair in comparison with the competition with dust and water. Interestingly, I drove in moderate rain today with a forward facing ram head, for about an hour and a half. Checked the (sealed) airbox, there was about 30 or 40ml of water in the bottom. Not nearly enough to cause an issue, but it makes me think in torrential rain for a big drive, could be a different story.
Thank-you very informative 👍 Just installed 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust to 1 HZ with safari turbo/front inter-cooler. and have just ordered the new release Safari Armax snorkel for 100 series. based on your findings and manufacturers claims, should be lot more power with air flow in and out ! and with tune to readjust AFR safely even more benefit ?
I had no idea Safari were releasing as Armax for 100! I must check if they do one for the 80. The 1HZ was never really designed for a turbocharger with the pre-combination chambers in the head. Though if you only use moderate boost and keep check on the egt temps, with a decent tune, it should be fine. It's just a shame the 105 didn't come with the 1hd-fte!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yeah would have been good, but still love the 1HZ, ARB doesn't have Armax for 80 series in September price list ? maybe next cab of the rank🤞
"Give it a thumbs down, twice" How good! That's a great comparison between the different styled snorkel heads. I personally prefer the forward-facing ram head. I'm very interested to see how the different heads perform with the other tests you have lined up. Great job!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Very keen to see the other episodes, I have both Cyclonic (Which my mates give me heaps of curry about) and the Ram head and was thinking of the sock but quickly cancelled the order.
The cyclonic admittedly look different, though the flow shouldn't drop off as they fill up with dust unlike other options. You'll probably end up laughing as they're replacing their dusted motors and your cyclonic seperator has done all the heavy lifting for you!
I think the distance of a rearward facing snorkel to the body would change this due to the potential for higher pressure. While the Safari snorkel has a similar standoff to the body compared to the pipe, I think the design of the Safari Snorkel is improving inH20 vs. the pipe. How much, I don't know.
The intersection between the wind screen and the roof is a low pressure area at speed. I'm not sure if our "backward stainless emulation!" is far enough away from it to to negate the effect. But going by the forward vs backward ram head figures "less than 4 inH2O" I would say not a lot. I think the main issue with the backward facing snorkels air flow is the plain cut off end, right after a bend.
I believe what you are seeing is Bernoulli's principle, it's creating a low pressure after passing over the 90 degree chamfer and making it harder for the engine to breath. I keep trying to explain to the yuppies that insist on the those snorkels, generally find them in patrols with 6" lifts and 35" wheels. The end needs to be cut at an angle. That's why the ram head works fine backwards as it's angled. Snorkels are designed to act as a ram head and face forward. My preference is for the Donaldson's as a pre filter because the sock covers need more maintenance and shouldn't be left on all the time, only when needed.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing how are the rest of the episodes coming along mate? Just found your channel and binge watching. Really keen to hear your thought on what product is best to keep keep the dust out (even if it means reducing the performance) cheers, Matt
Gday, To do a fare test with regards to the stainless steel snorkel, shouldn't you actually get one installed? rather then a piece of plumbing pipe stuck on the end lol?
To test the differences between the two inlet styles, the reverse facing stainless style and the ram head, you either need to test as I did or a stainless body with the ram head and then backward facing head. That way the only variable is the inlet and let's you work out which one works better.
I'm a little confused as to where the pressure sensor was mounted.... In the snorkel or airbox? If the turbo increases air intake pressure wouldn't it make life easier for the turbo if the intake air has more pressure? Or is less better..... 🤔
The effect would.be compounded, as the compressor works on a pressure ratio and not a given amount of boost for certain amount of exhaust flow. So it's even more important for a forced induction car.
While it won't show averages and standard deviation to show consistency. If you compare the results in between this testing and the forward vs backward video's results. (Tested in a different location, different weather, different elevation etc) The percentage different of the results are reasonably consistant.
You may find that the Donaldson Pre cleaner is to large the air flow in the test car Check the Donaldson specs sheet. It relies on air speed to work effectively.Cheers.
@@robkay9227 I did look at that after watching a video by, let's just call them "Bury my Diesel" :) Stating that the smaller cyclone head was the best for separation. The Zook has a 3.2L v6 petrol with a redline at 6,500rpm (And being a petrol, especially when driving sand dunes, I sometimes have to do a spot of limiter bashing...). So with a VE of around 90%, that equals around 300cfm. This cyclonic head is rated to 320cfm by Donalson, and the smaller size, is only rated to 170cfm, so that would definitely strangle the flow. Later on, I look into the smaller vs larger cyclonic heads.
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What's your favorite snorkel pre-filter?
I always liked the cyclonic style, they are just so bulky unfortunately.
I use the cyclonic, just looking at it after a bit of driving I can see how much dirt has not gone into the air filter.
A top spin would probably work even better but too expensive for me.
Im using Sy Klone Pre Filter on a Jeep JK. 2.8CRD engine.
I'm a fan of the cyclone head. You can see it filling up with bugs and crap as you go, and its easy to remove, tip out and put back.
That's probably why they're so popular on earth moving machinery etc.
I also can't see the cyclonic seperaters providing too much addtional air flow restriction as they fill up, unlike an addtional filter.
Are you going to do more parts to this video? I’m so interested to see them tested even more! As you said, dust and water ingress would be great to see tested! I don’t think anyone had ever done a proper in depth video on this? I could be wrong!
I love my Donaldson but personally I don’t see it pick up water but I never get big rain down south Australia. Other than that it’s perfect for bugs and sand in my personal experience! Love the videos keep them coming!
I've had my Patrol Cab Chassis for 18 months, and been using a Cyclonic Pre-filter Head for the past 12 months. I find my Filter is much cleaner, and need to empty the cyclonic head about once a month of fine dirt/dust particles driving around Sydney.
When raining, if heavy I would need to watch the cyclonic head and empty captured water on a daily bases, if light rain or drizzle for a day or two, water would collect over two or three days, but would evaporates after a day of no rain, even quicker in summer.
A Cyclonic Pre-filter Head is a no brainer for me
I'm becoming a big fan of the cyclonic heads, though I think there can be improvements to the design to increase efficiency. I might have to fire up Solidworks!
Ive been hanging for the rest of this series, your killing me
Me, too mate, bloody lockdowns, I think were up to #6 in Vic! Or seven, they seem to be running into each other!
Rest assured, I'm still plugging away at this one.
Instead of doing it in the feild, I think I worked out a way to do the testing properly in the backyard. I'm designing the bits and peices in CAD and have just picked up a 3D printer to knock them up for the wind tunnel.
It's still a little while off, but I think the wait will be worth it.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing we're world lock down reigning champions, for sure
Wouldn't mind being able to swap in the cyclonic when off-road and leave the standard Ram Air on while on road. Another thing to carry... But best of both worlds.
That's probably the best compromise.
Awesome mate. The Donaldson sure did better than I expected. In saying that, as they do seperate up to 75% of dust before it enters the engine air filter, I think it would be a great addition to the 4x4.
I couldn't believe how well the Donaldson worked either! I had to double check the footage when I was compliling the results, I though it must have been wrong. We'll check how well it works for dust and water in upcoming videos, but I'm impressed so far!
Dust and water here in scotland mines works goog
Good
Really enjoy watching your videos Cobber, thanks!
Glad to hear it!
The best reviewer by far on TH-cam
I'm sure I'm not. But thanks!
Thanks Simon , awesome info for people just setting up or getting into 4WDing, I’m learning so much , thanks again mate , cheers from Wagga Wagga
You're welcome, there are so many options out there it's hard to sort them all out.
Well that answered a lot of questions, great video!
Thanks!
Great bid man. Super informative and unbiased! I had considered a SS 4" for the TD42T... Now... Not so much! I'm sticking with the safari and forwards ram head and putting a sock on it as required. 🍻
I'm not against the stainless snorkels, just to get them working well would require a ram head instead of the backward cut off.
More Aussie myth busting. Mate you're a fricken Legend! Thank you for this. It's just like having a chat with the missus... You were wrong... Twice!
That's hilarious! Strangely my Missus didn't think so.... :)
Have you done part three? Can't find it but am as keen as mustard as I run a cyclonic head on my Safari snorkel. Dust, bugs be and rain water, it collects them all as a prefilter works terrific.
Super great awsome stuff. A part from the sock I would have stated those results with the forward ram head being the winner. I have had the debate with way too many people with rear facing very expensive SS snorkels trying to explane that a rear facing head is a bad idea due to the negative (sucking) pressure that it causes. Thank you for demonstrating that.
Do you know where the idea first came from? Well I understand it came from off road and mud racing and it was not for a performance issue. It was to stop lumps of dirt and or mud from going down the snorkel and into the air filter that was thrown up by the car in front. 🤗
I think now unless you're driving a mud bogging comp 4x4 you would be silly to go with a backward facing SS snorkel. Though unfortunately they still seem to be selling plenty.
I knew! i went best of both worlds 5inch stanless with a 5in ram with a cyclone head i swap in and out depending on conditions.
Got the mandrel bent big pipe for max flow, polished for looking sweet and a big ram to shovel extra air in. Actually dropped 180°C of my egts
@@jarradblair1793 best of both worlds!
I'm sticking with my rams head forward-facing ;) but it is very interesting to see the results with the other items.
We'll see how they fair in comparison with the competition with dust and water. Interestingly, I drove in moderate rain today with a forward facing ram head, for about an hour and a half. Checked the (sealed) airbox, there was about 30 or 40ml of water in the bottom. Not nearly enough to cause an issue, but it makes me think in torrential rain for a big drive, could be a different story.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Nice to know thanks for the info.
Hey mate great video! When are you doing the other parts?
Covid has slowed things down, but it's on the cards!
Be interesting to see the results of a stock oem pre cleaner like the bucket one on a vdj70 or the big box one from a 100/105 and see how they go
Sure would, unfortunately I don't have either of those at hand.
Awesome mate. Your videos are super informative.
Cheers!
Thank-you very informative 👍
Just installed 3 inch mandrel bent exhaust to 1 HZ with safari turbo/front inter-cooler.
and have just ordered the new release Safari Armax snorkel for 100 series.
based on your findings and manufacturers claims, should be lot more power with air flow in and out ! and with tune to readjust AFR safely even more benefit ?
I had no idea Safari were releasing as Armax for 100! I must check if they do one for the 80.
The 1HZ was never really designed for a turbocharger with the pre-combination chambers in the head.
Though if you only use moderate boost and keep check on the egt temps, with a decent tune, it should be fine.
It's just a shame the 105 didn't come with the 1hd-fte!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yeah would have been good, but still love the 1HZ, ARB doesn't have Armax for 80 series in September price list ? maybe next cab of the rank🤞
Hopefully, I would definitely upgrade!
Hi mate, have you done part 2, part 3 and part 4?
"Give it a thumbs down, twice" How good! That's a great comparison between the different styled snorkel heads. I personally prefer the forward-facing ram head. I'm very interested to see how the different heads perform with the other tests you have lined up. Great job!
Thanks! Lockdown has put the brakes on the follow-up testing at the moment, but I can't wait to get back into it!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Yeah it's a bit of a bummer at the moment.
Where are parts 2-4? Would love to see more! Thanks
The "Rona" has put the brakes on a few video series, but rest assured they're coming!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Very keen to see the other episodes, I have both Cyclonic (Which my mates give me heaps of curry about) and the Ram head and was thinking of the sock but quickly cancelled the order.
The cyclonic admittedly look different, though the flow shouldn't drop off as they fill up with dust unlike other options.
You'll probably end up laughing as they're replacing their dusted motors and your cyclonic seperator has done all the heavy lifting for you!
Even if the air has to do a 180 turn it’s still efficient because of the volume of air available at all times.
False. Air is a viscous fluid and suffers from frictional losses when being forced through/around bends.
Have you made other parts to this series , I can’t seem to find them?
Not done yet, but keep an eye out, they're coming!
Did you ever complete the next three videos? I’ve been searching for them.
Covid, unfortunatley put the brakes on a few projects, but we're full steam ahead now! Keep an eye out for the last two episodes.
@@Jay-hr9ci thanks mate, it's coming!
Only if you're behind someone in a convoy or on a busy dusty road like the pdr.
I usually lead trips and still end up with airbox full of bulldust!
I think the distance of a rearward facing snorkel to the body would change this due to the potential for higher pressure. While the Safari snorkel has a similar standoff to the body compared to the pipe, I think the design of the Safari Snorkel is improving inH20 vs. the pipe. How much, I don't know.
The intersection between the wind screen and the roof is a low pressure area at speed. I'm not sure if our "backward stainless emulation!" is far enough away from it to to negate the effect. But going by the forward vs backward ram head figures "less than 4 inH2O" I would say not a lot. I think the main issue with the backward facing snorkels air flow is the plain cut off end, right after a bend.
I believe what you are seeing is Bernoulli's principle, it's creating a low pressure after passing over the 90 degree chamfer and making it harder for the engine to breath. I keep trying to explain to the yuppies that insist on the those snorkels, generally find them in patrols with 6" lifts and 35" wheels. The end needs to be cut at an angle. That's why the ram head works fine backwards as it's angled.
Snorkels are designed to act as a ram head and face forward. My preference is for the Donaldson's as a pre filter because the sock covers need more maintenance and shouldn't be left on all the time, only when needed.
Probably should’ve had the stainless mock twisted a slight bit as most of them curve inwards
I think it's primarily the shape of the entry and it's proximity to the bend that's the issue.
Where are the rest of the videos in the series??
Covid happened.... though I'm slowly getting back into it!
Here here, spent ages looking for them until i saw your comment!!
@@LockyourHubs4WDing how are the rest of the episodes coming along mate? Just found your channel and binge watching. Really keen to hear your thought on what product is best to keep keep the dust out (even if it means reducing the performance) cheers, Matt
I must finish this series off! Though for dusty conditions, I think it'll be hard to go past the Donaldson Cyclonic.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Any chance you can compare the old Donaldson with their Top Spin model?
Where's the link to the dust comparison video please?
Gday, To do a fare test with regards to the stainless steel snorkel, shouldn't you actually get one installed? rather then a piece of plumbing pipe stuck on the end lol?
To test the differences between the two inlet styles, the reverse facing stainless style and the ram head, you either need to test as I did or a stainless body with the ram head and then backward facing head. That way the only variable is the inlet and let's you work out which one works better.
I cant find the part 2 and 3 of the prefilters.....
PART 2 ??
Can seem to find the other Parts to these tests???
can you help me out with that please??
Great comparison. Any chance you can compare the Donaldson with a Sy-Klone precleaner? I’ve very curious
I haven't seen the skyclone, do you have a link?
enginaire.com/composite-precleaners/. Not skyclone but similar. Also Donaldson Top spin is similar.
How about the mushroom head snorkel. Can you make a test.
What vehicle are they from?
Sorry, *Can't seem to find the other Parts??
When will the next few episodes come out?
I'm starting to get those episodes back on track now we're coming out of lockdown.
What happened to Part 2?
I'm a little confused as to where the pressure sensor was mounted.... In the snorkel or airbox?
If the turbo increases air intake pressure wouldn't it make life easier for the turbo if the intake air has more pressure? Or is less better..... 🤔
The sensor port was in the dirty side of the airbox lid. The lower number equal less restriction. So a higher pressure at the inlet/turbo.
No other parts yet mate?
Be interesting to see if the results varied on a turbo diesel
The effect would.be compounded, as the compressor works on a pressure ratio and not a given amount of boost for certain amount of exhaust flow.
So it's even more important for a forced induction car.
Need to run each one 3 times I reckon and then average the results. One run is just not showing consistently
While it won't show averages and standard deviation to show consistency. If you compare the results in between this testing and the forward vs backward video's results. (Tested in a different location, different weather, different elevation etc) The percentage different of the results are reasonably consistant.
Good job thanks
Thanks mate!
You may find that the Donaldson Pre cleaner is to large the air flow in the test car
Check the Donaldson specs sheet. It relies on air speed to work effectively.Cheers.
@@robkay9227 I did look at that after watching a video by, let's just call them "Bury my Diesel" :) Stating that the smaller cyclone head was the best for separation. The Zook has a 3.2L v6 petrol with a redline at 6,500rpm (And being a petrol, especially when driving sand dunes, I sometimes have to do a spot of limiter bashing...). So with a VE of around 90%, that equals around 300cfm. This cyclonic head is rated to 320cfm by Donalson, and the smaller size, is only rated to 170cfm, so that would definitely strangle the flow.
Later on, I look into the smaller vs larger cyclonic heads.