ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มี.ค. 2023
- Project Cloverkit, a project started by tumblr, went from encouraging a young creator to bullying them off a platform.
When a young artist created a Warrior Cats OC, they didn’t think about the repercussions, but why would you? When one negative post influenced a movement, users across the internet jumped at the chance to do what they thought was right.
In this retrospective look at the Cloverkit Project, the truth behind Cloverkit is exposed, and we take a look at what caused BoltDaShinyEevee to abandon their account and the internet for good.
DISCLAIMER:
PLEASE DO NOT GO AFTER ANYONE IN THE VIDEO! This video is for educational purposes, and meant to document a part of internet history :) Please keep in mind these events happened over 8 years ago!
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Music Used:
Park - Petz Catz/Dogz 2
Abandoned Lot of Dreams - Pokemon Black/ Pokemon White
Alleycat - Persona 5
Petalburg City - Pokemon Emerald
In the morning Sun - Pokemon Mystery Dungeon Explorers of Sky
Flipnote hatena Menu
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Special Thanks to YOU for watching :)
#warriorcats #warriors #Cloverkit - บันเทิง
Ok, hot take: the "showering an artist with praise won't help them improve" argument is the LEAST of my concerns here. Not all artists, especially that young, WANT or NEED to improve; it's a fun past time. We need to stop looking at at recreationally as "you need to keep improving" because, yes, you should look to improve your art, if you're serious about it and it's your passion, but sometimes, we just want to draw silly cats in a silly fandom for a kid's book. And that's ok! What the REAL problem is, in my eyes, is taking this person's art and turning it into a movement, without any consent on the creator's part. It was for a good cause at first, and if it were just a few people, I'd be fine with it, but it turned into a mass phenomenon that had everyone fighting the comments below that they NEVER agreed or consented to. No one ever stopped to listen to what they wanted, before or during this whole affair.
FUCKING TRUE
fr
Yeah I agree. Not everyone needs to improve their art, especially if it's just a hobby. The intent was good, but they didn't have this kid's consent to use them/their drawing as the face of a movement. It would have been much better if they organised it as a one-time gift instead, like a Google Drive folder full of Cloverkit art. Either that, or at least turn the movement into something that actually benefits young artists as a whole, not just posting this specific character.
100% agreed. Especially since that kind of ties into the "fixing art is okay" argument. Only criticize or 'fix' art if it's explicitly asked by the creator, otherwise it's just rude. Not everyone WANTS to improve, some just want to have fun. That's a-okay
Especially with that person being a child. This project is one of the many reasons why parents should supervise and manage their small children's accounts. For stuff like this.
5:42 I mean, people don't just do art to become good artists. People also do it for fun, and not every random kid making warriors ocs on the internet massively cares about improvement. There shouldn't be an expecation for artists to accept unsolicited criticism or even unsolicited advice.
I make art to create something new and get attention and it’s miserable
I’ve never been able to get over it though, even with 20k subs and an entire album in the works
I’m so desperate to pioneer something new that I barely have any fun doing anything
So no, I think a lot of people have the same issues I have
Anyway I like your rain wurl shitposts
Hello, North, I like to draw for fun but I also like criticism from family and friends for improvements. Though I am older than a young child lol, I've tried taking inspo from different warrior cats artist too, like one is you :)
I do art to both for and become a good artist.
I totally agree with you! as a somewhat young artist myself, I always get a massive amount of anxiety and self doubt whenever someone criticizes my artwork and it makes me feel like i am bad at art and should give up but i could only imagine what its like for someone (like bolt) go though so much chaos, hate and attention all because they posted a silly little doodle.
Hello there north! I very much agree. I like improving my art as a young artist, yet, I just do it for fun! ☺
this poor kid was probably so confused 😭 this would be horrifying to log in one day to find so many strangers praising you, and then all of the sudden they just start yelling at each other. and the whole time they’re saying this all happened because your art sucks …
the creator or cloverkit’s gonna have this permanent lurking feeling that any time someone prasises them it’s becauae they’re not really good enough, and that gifts given to them are just out of pity.
The amount of effect certain things can have on a person is crazy.
they didn't create the character, the design was stolen, but yea I agree
@@raineterni2219 says who?
@@zoe6464 it says so in the video? 7:22 for complete context.
@@zoe6464says 7:22 you _
woah, i never expected a fursuit i made to make it into a youtube video!! i’m pastelcrocodile, the person who was commissioned to make gayfeatherstar’s cloverkit fursuit head! it was so much fun to bring the character to life in that way, i agree that he’s in good hands now! full credits for the fursuit are the foam cast head base and eye blanks were made by tepiddreamer, the paws and tail were made by shaydestuckk, and i completed all other aspects of the head!
you’re amazing pastel!!! 💚💚
It’s a nice fursuit good job!
great job !! such a cute fursuit!!
The eyes are so cute!!
It's SUCH A CUTE FURSUIT!!! When I'm old enough and have the money I want to commission you :O (although don't take that too seriously because I'm only 13 so things may change lol)
Holy shit, I completely forgot about Cloverkit. I think I saw him posted to some bad deviantart art blog, but the actual story behind him went over my head.
i truly feel for bolt-- getting that much attention so suddenly is *terrifying* and i definitely feel like most of the praise and fanart was in bad faith and very patronizing to begin with.
like imagine if somebody said to you "your character is so brave! people need to stop being so rude, just because your art SUCKS doesn't mean you should be bullied for it! support young artists!!" 💀
yyyyeah as someone who's very suddenly gotten a lot of attention on a niche personal creative project from all sorts of different people it's majorly stressful- and i'm an adult, it's got to be even harder as a kid
yeah!! i know a lot of the people were well meaning but seeing some of the art featured in this video captioned with "don't be afraid to draw badly" just kinda didn't sit right with me... like im sure they meant well but bestie u literally are insulting them 2 their face
@@starboundsingularity Yeah because there is no such thing as "bad" art, there's always something good in an artwork no matter the amount of experience put into, it is amazing regardless and I think supporting Bolt would be good if it wasn't branded as "it's ok that your art is bad" and if not much people were doing it
@@MeloAvis i think "bad" art can exist in the sense of, like, soulless art made purely for profits- like whatever butch hartman's drawing is bad art, to me
but if its made by someone who cares and who has an idea they want to put out there then no matter their skill level it's never truly "Bad"
@@starboundsingularity ik the one you’re talking about and i will say that with the context of the artist its less insulting as thats one of their main phrases that they say a lot even today. The message behind it is very well meaning and is meant as a “dont be afraid to draw what you want even if you or others think its bad”
This seems like a classic case of artists getting swept up in a trend and focusing more on making art to (fit a trend, get followers, build a public persona, or just Be Part Of Something) instead of the original purpose. If everyone else is drawing this little cat, I should, too! When it really gets heinous imo is with memorial pieces :(
could u explain what the memorial pieces are?
@@getbetterusernamespunk yes i must know
Idk the internet wasn't that way back in the day as badly as it is now. A lot of artists, and trends in general, started as just fun things to do that people wanted to be apart of because they were neat things to do to add to a collective whole.
Now when they hop on trends its to hop they get noticed in the algorithms for followers and attention as opposed to just participating in something their peers are also doing.
And as for memorial pieces, art is about expression and venting. Memorial pieces can often to express their love for a now gone figure. Of course there's 100% someone doing it for clout but not always, y'know?
Nope ur wrong
"Never be afraid to draw badly" is such a backhanded compliment tbh...when I was younger and less experienced hearing someone say that about my pictures would've ruined my confidence tbh
Same
Had that been said to me when I was younger, I probably would've been discouraged
Like I know it's meant to be encpuraging but...
That’s just a nice way of saying “I think your art is sh*t. But maybe you’ll be as good as me one day??”
"never be afraid to draw badly" isnt even a compliment.
i think if you look at it as a compliment, you're seeing it the wrong way entirely.
.. its a piece of advice that says its okay to fail. its common rhetoric. im not saying youre dumb or anything, but as someone who was never scared of drawing whatever they wanted, I don't understand why that would shred someone's confidence. i would probably just agree, even when i was younger.
but I CAN see it shredding someone's confidence if they think its a backhanded compliment in the first place. .. like, @thisisbetterthanmyprevious6674 reworded the whole thing to be some kind of self uplifting insult. "Never be afraid to draw poorly" isnt even referring to specific art. if someone walked up to me, stared at my art, and said "never be afraid to draw poorly", to pertain to my art, I guess its a backhanded insult but it'd probably go over my head. i wouldn't understand how it applied. ig im weird.
@@thisisbetterthanmyprevious6674 Nah, there are plenty of artists who have amazing art, but give up so easily because they don't think so. It's supposed to be a response to artists being their own worst critics.
As someone who was deathly afraid of sharing art online as a kid, I think young users should be encouraged since the hate and negativity can be overwhelming since that was my biggest fear. “What if they don’t like it’’ and “will I be bullied for drawing this” constantly in my mind. I was young and scared and nobody was there to show me what to do. It wasn’t until my irl friends I made in 5th grade saw my art and encouraged me to draw more that I was finally able to share the art I loved with others. I think that if we see a “bad” piece of art, we should compliment the artist and say something along the lines of “great work so far! But if you’re ever struggling with drawing I could give a few tips” it’s like if you see a 5 year old show you a crayon sketch of a dog, you praise them and maybe give them one small suggestion before putting it on the fridge. Idk just my opinion is all.
Exactly
I always wanted to share my art and stories online but I was always afraid that I would be bullied or have my art stolen. I have only shared my arts on discord for competition or with my irl friends. I really want to make a art account on some websites but I’m always scared of anything that go wrong.
You hit the nail on the head. What I usually do is a sort of “criticism sandwich”, where you point out two things that you think the artist did well, and have a little bit of criticism in the middle. That way, the artist feels encouraged to continue, but can also pick up some tips for making future works.
Exactly! I personally sometimes find young artists showing their work on youtube shorts and i always make sure to write a nice comment. Especially since youtube short comments can be really vile towards younger people. I want to at least try and get the young artists to continue doing what they love and sending them a bit of support
@@mediatorraptor3349 I share my art and I still have the fear it will be stolen. I do put my signature on my arts but it could easily be cropped out. I think my fear is more specifically that my art will be stolen, I will tell the thief I knew. Then said thief will convince everyone on the internet that I stole their art and everyone will be ignore the signature, the upload date of the picture and the fact I have a high quality png and the original file with all the original layers and everyone will refuse to believe me. Crazy fear, I know. Lol
I never knew what cloverkit was until now, but I truly believe that we should praise young artists even if the art does not look good! I remember drawing on scratch and made a wc oc around 2019 and many nice people said my art looked absolutely amazing. That truly touched my heart and motivated me to animate more, which I have improved since then if u look at my art from 2019. Kids might take criticism the wrong way and as an insult, and back then I did.
Although, don't give kids TOO much support. it will make it feel fake to them
Yeah, my child self is very guilty of taking critisism the wrong way haha. Kids respond better to praise, and while critisism is helpful, especially for older artists who already know how to handle it better, kids tend to see things in black and white. "someone saying this looks good means they like it. Someone saying I made a mistake means they hate it" seems to just be the mindset of a lot of young artists.
Criticism should definitely be paired with compliments on what the artist did right, and then the critic should point out one or two things that could be different and give tips on how it could be drawn next time.
ikr it's just wrong to tell them that their art sucks I mean their are just spreading their wings and finding how to draw
I used to make scratch animations as well back in 2016 and they were obviously not the best, but they were the start of my creativity. When I started my channel my art wasn’t the best either but people always praised, complimented and supported me, and it motivated me to continue my work and improve. People need to remember how vulnerable and sensitive younger children are, in order to improve and grow they need to be taught and encouraged, not bombarded by praise and not criticized. Nobody starts off as an amazing artist, they all start from somewhere. So whenever we see a young artist, lets support and motivate them because they are just beginning their journey to become a great artist. It makes me sad to see the harassment Bolt received because it forced them away from something they could have pursued and became great at.
@@oliviadavis3638 I think the best way to give good constructive criticism to kids is somewhat similar to what you said. Phrasing/framing is important, especially when it comes to kids, so I think the best type of constructive criticism for them is to really lean in on the constructive part, and basically say "hey, this is pretty good! I do have one tip you could use for future drawings. I typically draw _______ by doing [insert art process]. Maybe you could use that technique next time to make it a bit easier and more fancy. If you do something like that, I'm sure you'll make something amazing."
Basically, good job, here's an extra tip to improve. It's less about what is wrong with an art piece, and more about using new techniques to get better. As someone who is sensitive af, I think that always helps in terms of criticism. Focus on what you can do rather than what you didn't.
I hope Bolt was able to get back into art after everything. I was one of the well meaning people making fanart of Clover and felt really bad when I heard they'd been scared off
Nah dude should just live life normally away from art I mena the flashbacks would be insane
@@maomaomaimaimao bro would be doing a gus fring elevator scene when he posts his art as an adult💀
seriously tho, hope he fine
@@someguy1894 He touches a pencil and has Vietnam flashbacks
For what's worth, I don't agree with the idea of critique of less practiced artists!
To me, the trick is making genuine compliments not meaningless ones; there is always bound to be something that's cool in a starters's art, so clinging to that is so much better! Maybe they used cool colors, maybe they drew the eyes particularly cute, whatever! Bring their attention to something they're doing right!
When I was starting digital art, I was mostly aware of where I was struggling with, but didn't really notice what I was doing right, so I loved when that was pointed out, it's just as helpful
Exactly this!
@This ain't worth searchin yall I hope you try again at some point! Regardless of quality art is supposed to be fun, sucks that online interactions make it so tiring
I noticed the original drawing of clover kit (not the adoptable but the kids) had a basic grasp of depth, for example. The legs on the opposite side of them were shaded to indicate depth, which is a skill.
I posted my art online 6~ years ago. Tbh some of the critique, even if it was in jest and not meant to be constructive criticism, got me to see problems with some of the art I drew. I think constructive criticism is good, but if someone doesn't want constructive criticism or someone has already pointed out an error, then don't mention it (unless you have a trick on how to improve). Emphasizing what they did well or complimenting them is also great and will keep them motivated and feeling good :)
@@flitefulwantssubs402 I definitely see the point! I do think mostly, some artists are too young to be really looking for improvement and not just fun - I currently wouldn't mind critique or jest, while I draw completely as a side hobby and for fun still, but I don't think I would have liked it when I was younger (I started posting art online maybe 5 years ago??)
I have been going through so many posts about cloverkit to try and raise awareness and it almost brought me to tears seeing the actual truth talked about. Thank you so so much for the time taken to deep dive on this and I am SO SORRY YOU WENT THROUGH MY OLD DA JOURNALS oh man.. 11 year old me was a different breed
I never was active on tumblr to know the project was going around, and I vividly remember when the person I was selling Cloverkit to mentioned the project. It still kinda lingers and makes me very afraid of keeping any of my characters public or sharing my art because...who knows who will steal it and pass it off on their own? Going through tumblr, dA, google images even and searching up cloverkit and seeing hundreds upon hundreds of fanart for a character I had owned credited to someone who stole the design just made me feel cold.
You created the original cloverkit?
wait, did you create the original clover kit!?
@@somebodyoncetoldme4640 I assume they made the original adaptable considering they said "credited to someone who stole the design" but I could be mistaken
@@confused-toaster No, I was the one who first bought him hence "Original owner" since they were an adoptable designed to be sold. Soleil covered in the video the adoptable sheet the design was made on!
@@greyscaleadaven Nope! I bought the original design from the adoptable sheet. Bolt then stole it, but I was the first actual owner of the design. Yea I only paid the equivalent of like 5 cents for it, but seeing a design I still bought being used without my knowledge or permission was...shocking and overwhelming.
Holy moly i cant believe clover was originally stolen but its so cute that he became a firsuit and found his forever home
also! from a child development lens, it isn't always the best thing to give kids praise after praise. saying stuff like "good job!" or "wow that looks amazing!" can be very sweet comments in passing but should be used in moderation.
rather! telling kids stuff like "i can tell you worked really hard on that!" or "you put so much effort into it!" can go muuch farther, because it gives THEM ownership of their accomplishments without placing so much importance on what YOU (or others) think. that's not to say that you should never compliment a kid- as a kid i loved positive comments! but if you want to focus on growth and affirmation, acknowledge their effort and their process over the outcome. art, after all, isn't *just* about the end product :3
Moral of the story- Don't bully anyone over OCs. Cringe culture is dead.
It's pretty great seeing people just not giving a fuck anymore and doing what they want to instead of worrying about being cringe
@@ADreamingTraveler Yeah, I've realized literally the only people who say cringe every time they don't like something are eight year olds or 14 year olds.
Personally I've been reclaiming cringe culture to shame bullying. Turn that bitch on its head.
Shame is as much as an emotion as happiness and sadness. You can't just bury that away
2010 to 2017 was a very bad time for kids to be on the internet because this was all mostly before discord taking over the internet so it was tough to get rid of drama and regulate it because there was barely any mods online in these kinds of sites. Everyone back then wanted to get attention from "Cringe culture" and making fun of people. Nowadays since most communities only use discord its easier to relegate and people have a more friendlier and inspiring approach to people who arent the best at drawing.
Honestly, discord is the only place I feel safe to share my art. I know people won’t bully me for my art or try to steal it.
Amen. I wish I had never grown up with social platforms on the internet as a child in the 2000's to 2010's.
It of course depends on the kind of communities you're hanging out and sharing your art in
@@MeloAvistouché
being a furry in 2015-19 was living HELL and cringe culture pushed me out of the fandom. you had to constantly be a self hating furry just to survive
As someone who uses a “sparkle cat” as my fursona, just let these young OC creators be. I was one of them and yes, it’s awkward and unrealistic, but when did Warriors EVER stayed realistic 😂 Overly praising without providing tips can be just as useless as negative feedback, as they lay out no info on how to improve or what they like about the picture. Oversaturation is bad regardless.
OC’s are also known as Fan Characters, and it baffles me that it isn’t used as much because it’s a more accurate name to describe our OCs 😂
I wouldn’t mind Cloverkit having a comeback with a new design, with green eyes, white and grey fur, but permanently dyed green fur from their life as a kittypet.
I agree that DeviantArt’s point economy was and maybe still IS terrible.
You can provide criticism without being negative. Compliment their art, and then give them some tips on how they can do even better with their future art.
@@muddashucka9743But not everyone wants to improve, some people just like their art as is :)
@@SodaPoPSauce True.
cringe af
@@muddashucka9743 Offer to give tips, but don't bother them if they don't want it
DA was toxic. When I was 9 my brother helped me make an account, and I had this one page consistently bully me to the point where I decided not to upload anymore. I was on it for maybe 3 years… I quit art at the age of 12, which I deeply regret now that I’ve come back to it in my adult life. In fact I changed my major in college to graphic design, which almost felt wrong because of residual stress from when I was a kid. If I had continued to make things from 12-25 I would be vastly improved from where I am now. Please refrain from unwanted critiques, especially when it comes to young artists. It feels more like an attack at that age- the bullying was a different situation from unwanted critiques but they still had a negative impact on my trajectory as an artist.
Edit: even as an adult it’s hard to separate the art from the artist during a critique. It always feels personal, even when it isn’t. So imagine how much more of an impact it has on a young person
Sorry to rub salt on the wound, but you probably shouldn't have been on DA in the first place. Most sites don't allow users under 13 to make an account, and I wonder if you would've been much more confident had you waited until you were 13 to put your art out there.
Here's some more salt: Learning to take criticism with a measure of salt is utterly vital when posting anything on the internet. If you can't take heat, get out of the kitchen. Repetitive abuse though, on DA you could've blocked them, that's been a feature from the start.
@@KiraSlith ". If you can't take heat, get out of the kitchen." or you could, you know, be nice. actually your whole comment is a bad take lol
@@msmith1613 The internet, there's never been a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. actually your whole comment is a bad take lol
hey!! i know that little green guy! this is such an awesome and well researched video on this little piece of warriors history :} the entire section of his current whereabouts got me a little choked up ;;;; he’s such a special character to me and i’m so glad my love for him shows through the silly doodles and cookies i make of him :’) 💚☘️ cloverkit’s whole thing is a pretty tricky situation and you handled it so so thoughtfully
Your fur suit is incredible!
I'm glad the little guy has gotten a good home!! He had a hell of a rough time beforehand, so thank goodness he's in safe hands!
you do know the little guy! thanks for taking such well care of the fella, it's real heartwarming to know what happened with him after all those years back when this first surfaced and that he's in your hands
Ayo the person themselves are here. Love that you're happy with Cloverkit
As his original owner, I'm so so happy the little guy found a good home! It's still very surreal to see his design to this day.
*please always ask before you give constructive criticism,* especially with younger artists. i’ve been drawing traditionally for 13 or 14 years now and i don’t receive constructive criticism because i don’t ask for it and i haven’t posted my art online in a few years, but i’ve improved so so much on my own. i’m autistic and can’t handle constructive criticism. it’s a myth that you won’t improve without it
Seriously. If someone isn't specifically and explicitly asking for people to give them constructive criticism, they don't need it. They already know plenty of areas they can improve, rubbing it in their face doesn't help.
BABE WAKE UP SUN IN FRENCH UPLOADED
LMAO THIS DESCRIPTION
as someone who’s learning French I find this hilarious
@@warcatfurever101writeroffanfic LOLLLL
AND GL WITH THE FRENCH!! I’ve spoken it for 10+ years now😭 IT CAN GET DIFFICULT FOR SURE!!
@@mythiie I’ve been learning in school, it’s my 5th year so far! I want to go to France baaaad, I learned cuz I used to have everything Eiffel Tower themed lmaoo (my comforter was the Eiffel Tower if that explains my kid obsession). I just recently went to Quebec and Montreal in Thanksgiving break and practiced my French there. It was so fun! But so short. French is funny. I’m better at English than my mother tongue, and since they are similar, it’s easier. I can construct basic sentences/speak, but vocabulary i need to remember (so many tenses 😭😭). We just recently learned negatives and there’s object pronouns and the sentence order is so diff to English it’s funny and just like 😭😭😭 aghhhh i need to know to do well on quizzes/tests
@@warcatfurever101writeroffanfic IKR there’s so many tenses😭😭 I always struggled with that,, mostly due to improper teaching in my particular school,, but it’s still super fun to me too!! I continue to learn on my own time,, and honestly learned more that way!! HOPE YOU GO TO FRANCE SOMEDAY!! :DDD
@@mythiie THANKS!
this whole thing just seems useless- everyone should've left them alone, so they could just continue their art growth normally. i would've been miserable knowing that people were acting like they liked my art JUST because it was "bad and cringe"
also who cares if she stole it she was a child. it's a drawn cat
I mean- if I'd lowkey stolen a character, I'd be scared too if suddenly everyone was drawing said character, making it "famous" in a way, with my name attached to it.
Bolt probably got overwhelmed because they felt guilty. Everyone makes mistakes, I hope they learned from the incident and weren't scared away from creating all together.
And wow- imagine being the original owner of Spades, and finding out about the cloverkit drama, AS you're selling the character.
I would say that criticism should only be given out if the poster straight asks for it. I used to agree with criticism whenever thought necessary, but recently had an issue where i posted a cat character I was making in Dreams, literally just showing off what I had done so far, and someone came in and criticized the walking animations. It wasn’t done to be mean or anything, so there’s that, but what felt the most awkward about the situation was that I already had some issues with the walking animations and was already planning on fixing them. The main issue was that I didn’t ask what was wrong with my character and I didn’t ask how I could fix it, because I was already working on it and I knew what I was going to do about it, so it felt weird to have someone assume I didn’t know what I was doing.
Nowadays I only really give out criticism if anyone straight up asks for it, because I don’t want to assume that the poster in question wants their art to be scrutinized in that way. They could just want to share a little doodle they made, no reason to criticize their anatomy.
Yes! I've had similar experiences when posting my art and I came to much the same conclusions. Now if there's some critique I have about work I'll always ask whether the creator would like my feedback first, and never before complimenting what I like about the piece.
Receiving criticism when you didn't ask for it can definitely be disheartening at times. One example from my own life that's always stuck with me was when I moved into the place I'm currently renting, and ended up talking about my art with my landlady - I'm doing an illustration degree, so it came up through that. She wanted to see some of my work and I'm always happy to share, so I showed her some stuff from my final A Level project, including a watercolour illustration of a magpie I was really pleased with. All she had to say about the piece was something along the lines of how it 'looked too fat/rounded, but hey! That was probably just because of the position of the bird I used as reference'. It's stuck with me since because you just don't expect that sort of reaction when someone asks to see your art in casual conversation.
I've kinda come to see posting art on social media as a similar situation. When showing off your art to people irl you wouldn't expect them to just come out with critiques out of the blue unless they're your art teacher or something. Especially if you're being shown the art of someone who's basically a stranger to you. You only critique it if you've been asked to, otherwise you just give compliments of the specific good qualities. So why on social media would you critique a stranger's art if they haven't said its ok/specifically asked for criticism on that piece of work.
I’d like to also mention: as a digital artist who never received much critique (as a ‘young’ artist, 10 - now.) I did manage to improve in my own time- Sure, critiques are _always_ good when they’re needed but for some, especially younger artists who just wanna draw for fun, it isn’t always _required_ (I managed to get better by “mirroring” other artists- which, of course I did, I’m autistic. We _always_ mirror others /hj.). I feel somewhat bad for Bolt, though, tbh- I couldn’t imagine getting such an influx of OC fanart at such a presumed young age- especially when I hold them so personally and dear to me.
In many ways, being unseen by the general public is a blessing for young artists. It keeps your motivations about art your own enjoyment, instead of it being to please others. Young and new artists don't need criticism when they're just having fun. That's certainly what hurt me the most growing up with my own mother constantly having something to say to improve my work...
She'd always say I could do better or how the art is just "fine" when I viewed it as the best drawing I'd ever made. Even today as I show my nicest work to her, she says she expected nothing less of me. And that's just no good relationship to have with art. To please a shadow.
I think at the end of the day it's best to leave young artists be at their little corner of the internet and leave a compliment when you feel they could use it
Honestly, Cancel culture sucks even now artists even young ones still get bashed for their “mary sue” ocs. But making “cringe” ocs can be fun. Fanart could’ve been great for them to uplift them but why just them though. Some other young artists with similar ocs woulf be left out. Its all well and good but dont be favorites. And I honestly don’t believe it was wrong *or* right because criticism is good but its also, you cant have to much of it, everything needs balance.
🐭Ari, out!🐭
Honestly, as much as I dislike most Mary Sue characters in mainstream media (not all), I wouldn't apply that same level of scrutiny for an OC. Like obviously it makes me frustrated when a character falls into a generic and boring narrative category (I've still seen Mary Sue plotlines be done well when executed properly and subverted in ways) when it's been vetted through at least a team or two of career writers. But an OC is just someone's creation for themselves that they chose to share with the world. They aren't commonly creating legitimately monetizable content with it, nor are they making it a flagship character in some high-budget story. Especially young creators just need the space to be who they are, which is funnily enough near impossible on the internet where us adults rule the social scape whereas kids are often seen as cringey. Criticism is heavily over-imposed on the internet, and it gets tiring to see it around every corner when you're just trying to enjoy something or have fun.
you are 100% right, but also that's not what cancel culture is. that's cringe culture you're talking about
Tbh bashing young creators for mary sue ocs is such a weird thing to do, most of them dont even realise the issue anyway. Plus its for fun too as some ppl might just either enjoy this type of character or something. Plus its not really that much of an issue anyway
Unless we get to adults who decided they will write a book, where noone has aby struggles. Its really tge only tome where mary sue characters start to be an issue as its deliberate writing laziness at that point.
@@sollumi3014exactly. The art community on TikTok is really toxic right now. People will just straight up bully young artists for not making something right the first time. It’s so damn sad
Ik I hate when someone makes an oc that's not incredibly depressed and has no good qualities and everyone's like "Mary Sue 🙄" lol
My take on the “You need to criticize young artists”:
I started drawing when I was 6. My art was obv horrific but nobody ever told me it wasnt. Overtime, with all the praise, I pushed even harder to make my art better and make people compliment me more on my work. Now that I'm older I know they were just being nice lmao, but even without criticism, I've grown a lot as an artist.
You could've had a supervillian arc
But you chose greatness
MY GOD I LOVE THAT CLOVERKIT FURSUIT
same!
one year ago! not feeling great about this comment 😭😭😭
Honestly it'd be cool if someone made a tumblr blog dedicated to reblogging art from little-known artists across the site. BUT! Artists on tumblr, not other places. I don't think doing that for people outside the site is a good idea, because they have little ways to monitor what is happening on tumblr when they are not, too, on tumblr
especially as a young artist, getting compliments from people i knew really inspired me to keep going. the argument that praise won't help them improve doesn't stand very strong, especially if you're scared to share it to anyone.
the less people you show it to for praise or criticism, the less you learn. the praise you get keeps you inspired. the criticism tells you what you can work on.
i wasn't active on the internet during this period of time. but from my outside perspective, i'd say project cloverkit was a well-intentioned, but out of hand trend. in the focus of accepting and loving this one artist, more advanced and experienced artists shoved them out of their circle, while simultaneously doing nothing for the other early artists on the internet.
plus, critique will be asked for more often than not. if it's not, swallow your pride and give them a compliment or ask if you can give a few tips on how they can improve. ITS NOT THAT DIFFICULT.
I think part of the problem with unsollicited criticism is that... the people doing the criticism aren't good at it?
I've had people give me garbage criticism ("it looks wrong" -- thank you for this absolutely enlightening and detailed feedback that something's off!), I've had people give me "UMMMM AKSHUALLY" criticism ("a professional would know that you need to add more shades in this!!!" -- my brother in Vivec one of us is working with sprites that can be inserted into the ROM and knows the specs, and it's not you with your 30 color palettes)...
And then I've had genuine criticism but given so aggressively that I wondered who wee'd in their corn flakes and made them dissect my stuff.
The people who give good criticism tend to fashion criticism sandwiches and to carefully select the criticism that fills it-- and that's probably the healthiest way to do it: "This is awesome and I especially like XYZ. Have you thought about studying M? Also did you have trouble with NO? I remember that I had a lot of trouble with that when I started. ABC is pretty cool too, I wish more people ABC'd."
You have to angle criticism a certain way because you don't want to push someone toward perfectionism, but also not encourage being complacent and stagnant. It's a tough angle to figure out and you have to adapt a bit for every individual.
honest to god this kind of shit legitimately made me think getting bullied in grade school was the best thing to happen to me even though it fucking ruined me for years and made me apologize for literally everything, along with stunting my creative growth, fuck the whole 'hurting kids makes them stronger' or any kind of similar mindset and whoever follows it
@@neoqwerty and even then the kid didn't even need constructive criticism, it's a kid enjoying themselves no need for criticism really especially unwanted and unasked.
@@neoqwerty exactly! that's a very valid point and i 100% agree. people who criticize need to know WHAT they're criticizing, and if they don't then it's really just an opinion take. me included, criticism needs to be more than just "you could work on X" or "this could be better". it's gotta be more specific and thoughtful.
Cloverkit was my favorite. He inspired so many of my OCS, and I really did like him.
comments like "well what about other young artists huh, why are you only supporting this one artist?"
like, stfu. you cant get to everyone on the internet, you cant always support every young artist, its not possible. so flooding one artist with some love for once isnt shunning better artists, its being supportive of a young artist. just because one person gets love for their art doesnt mean that nobody else will, you have to start somewhere with support right?
I hope bolt is doing alright, wherever they are.
I remember this project! I had some warrior cats friends who took part in drawing Cloverkit back in the day (and I remember trying to leave an encouraging comment on their dA profile). One thing that I was surprised not to be mentioned was that I foggily remember my reason for trying to leave a supportive comment was because a popular warrior cats animator made a comment calling Bolt a "special snowflake", and it riled people up to try and protect them, it was not just the tumblr blog. It's awesome to see an in-depth covering of the character. :V I never knew their design had in fact been stolen, it's super sweet to see that the original Club/now Clover has a new loving home!
I remember when I was younger I made a Steven universe oc, everyone criticize and mocked it all except one. The artist complemented the drawing and gave me some pointers, they even took the time to draw the oc in their own style. I doubt I would still be making art to this day without their help. It doesn’t take much to build someone up, I don’t know why so many people are persistence about tearing people down.
As a kid I hated getting critiques on my art because I was just trying to have fun and playing around with art tools. I hated getting told to get a drawing tablet because one thing that shits expensive especially back then, it was near impossible to obtain, it made me feel like I couldn’t do art because of my financial status for a while.
Anyways, anyone remember sketchfu?
As an adult artist I don’t really critique or even suggest things to my younger siblings for art unless they ask, I want them to develop their art their way if they wish to, it’s way more fun for them that way and seeing them be proud over their art is awesome and I wouldn’t ever ruin that by saying “this is great …but…”
I remember hearing about this cool to hear exactly what happened
What I learned growing up as a young artist online and occasionally getting berated too for "bad art" when I was starting out, I gotta say that ppl need to stop treating young kids who draw online like professionals wanting to sell art in a year. It is incredibly rude to give unsolicited advice and also harbours a brech of privacy through entitlement. I've heard many excuse this behavior with: "Oh, but they posted online! If you do that, You won't get a free pass on criticism!" like that's in any way a fair argument.
Artists need time and a want to improve if they wanna get to a high skill level ofc especially speaking of professional fields. But most artists start it as just a hobby. and if art is very personal to someone, they might be really upset if you came there and ripped it apart.
I also like to mention that a lot of the critics also hide behind constructivity arguments while they are anything but constructive. If you talk condecendingly or rudely, you are not constructive. constructivity is about helpful advice on a professional level meaning you will phrase it in ways that take in mind the artists personal feelings and issues. So you can't just be rude and then claim it's fair critique cause you offered constructive advice. that is not how it works.
And lastly I wanna sign yall off on this. especially those that feel called out. If you ever wanna work in a professional art based environment, you would drop out very quickly for lacking professionality and politeness as well as respect. Professionals as well as clients do NOT appreciate rude and entitled behavior. and so if you ever wanted to make it professionally, you'd have to make it with a professional mindset. Being rude, sassy, moody and easily angered is not professional. And I say this as a professional with a career in art. You will not get far without professionalism. And I do strongly believe that any rude artists online would be a red flag to any client. no matter how good your art is. So if you ever wanna get into the field properly where the money's at, ya gotta start acting like a grown up.
Wow I feel bad for that kid, they literally hounded them.
growing a whole community at a young age is absolute curse
It was the fanart not the comments that pissed them off. The positivity spam made them mad.
I wasn’t really around these parts of the internet when this stuff happened so this is the first I’ve heard of it, thanks for sharing! On the other hand, I heard that flip note hatena noise you use in the transitions and almost broke down crying, I fell asleep with my DSi in my hands talking to people on there so many times. They shut it down far too soon, and it always baffled me how I managed to instantly lose contact with every single friend I had on there
That was a very nice and informative video! I found out a lot I hadn't known about the situation, especially the proper ownership of the character!
The way I have and will continue to "praise artists" is by encouraging them to continue making art and focusing on specific aspects of the work I like while trying to guide and help them improve in the areas they may not really be very good at. I think this is the most beneficial way to help young artists without bombarding them with comments like "OMG IT IS SO GOOD" because that doesn't help. You can't stop people from being mean and if you are gonna be on the internet you just have to accept it. I have fans and I have people who don't like me and I am ok with both things. But I'm an adult so it is certainly different.
// I did this- I drew Cloverkit and commented: You are doing so good! Keep it up!
I didn't know how far it actually went...
What WHAT U CAME UP WITH HIM?
@@nyacruz7602 No- no, But i did draw him as fanart 😅
In my opinion, the best thing you can do for young artists making work is leave them alone. They will develop and get better in their own time. Unless they're asking for critique, I recommend letting them do their own thing.
Finally! A rational HUMAN!
wow, i haven't seen that cloverkit art i made in years. for context, Crykovsart is my old tumblr art blog that I haven't touched in ages.
i wasn't there for the secondary fallout of this whole situation. I had no idea Cloverkit was stolen, or the chaos that ensued after the events were over. really interesting!
the argument that a young artist will never improve if they are not given criticism is completely false and extremely cruel to me. i've been doing art for upwards of a decade, and i have been supported fully throughout my journey. i never improved because someone thought my art was ass, i improved because that is what happens when you hone a craft over time. the notion that constructive criticism should be dealt to every artist you see is off the walls to me. the only times i've ever gotten criticism (thinly veiled hate comments under the guise of "wanting me to improve"), they did not motivate me to improve. encouragement and a genuine love for art is the reason why i am a good artist today. don't go around giving constructive criticism to every random artist you see. we most likely don't care, don't want it, or don't need it
This is a very tumblr situation to be fair. They want to take part in social justice, but the extent of their activism usually starts and ends with a hashtag bandwagon that takes little consideration as to how it’s actually supposed to help anyone.
I’m sure they all had good intentions, but you shouldn’t make anyone, especially some kid, the martyr for your cause without realizing that will also make them a pariah for the haters.
It would have been better to support many young artists at once, instead of hyperfixating on one in particular. And they could have asked the artists for their own submissions, instead of doing it without their knowledge or permission.
Better yet, don’t do any of that and just get the blog who exists exclusively to bully children for drawing bad fanart to stop doing that.
Okay I was there and talked to the person at the time(it was wild). The kid made Cloverkit as a throwaway edgy character with the theme song Dance f*cker dance and they were not heavily invested in him(I think not at all). People thought they were, so they spammed them but the kid didn't want to be linked or given fanart. This involved chasing this user across other websites and spamming them with basically a character they had already FORGOTTEN about and made a new main cat for their story. The kid PM'd me saying they hated it because Cloverkit was a family annihilator character(a kit who kills everyone and is a villain) as that was said, I don't think Cloverkit was meant to be anything but a one chapter villain but the story could have changed after.
For clarification, the backstory on Cloverkit was basically Cloverkit had everybody fooled and was going to be an innocent looking character who kills kind of like how people saw Ashfur early on. His adult name was never decided but he wasn't the focus at all. The creator didn't really want fanart until they figure out the plot and if they were keeping the characters. Mind you this is ancient conversations with bad grammar but they seemed to be a WIP character not ready for the fanart. So the fanart definitely made changing the design or anything down the road hard.
Uhm..by "creator" do you mean bolt? They didn't create it. It was from an adoptable which someone actually bought! I actually found a comment from them in this comment section as they had no idea what was going on at the time..they didn't realize the character they bought and owned had been stolen, made a mascot, and given tons of fanart without them knowing or being credited or anything
@@fairyfoxey9438 I'm aware it's stolen. I'm saying I was there for the whole thing and how Bolt panicked and begged people to stop drawing a background character "of theirs".
I know the full story behind Clover. That's besides the point. I lived this thing and was there throughout the explosion of drama was my comment's purpose.
Ah... Warrior Cats and DeviantArt.
I had a DA account. I made OCs as a young 9 year-old and posted them online for others to see. I got mean comments and nice comments. But ultimately, after my time on that platform, I came to really dislike my time there. Between witnessing other artists' drama, getting bullied occasionally, getting critique I never asked for, and just overall seeing everyone's negative tone, it made me feel 1000x worse about my art and sowed a seed of insecurity in my artistic abilities.
The early 2000's for younger kids on platforms like TH-cam and DeviantArt were brutal. Just brutal. Bolt's experience reminds me of mine as a little girl.
Omg I love this video great job your really making a difference I’ve never seen anyone do these kinds of warriors deep dives! And I love it keep up the good work!
lesson learned:
Dusting the vase is a nice thing.
It will make it shiny, clean and sparkly for a short time.
Later i will get dust again and you have to shine it again.
But if you keep shining it theres a chance that it will fall and break.
Doing something you thought is good for too much might also break something or someone.
For me when it comes to giving beginner artists advice it depends, art is something you do for fun. Not something you HAVE to be good at. Not saying giving advice is bad, but you should do it like "I love the bright colors you use! I would love to see a pastel cat in your art style (or) I would love to see how it would look shaded!" One gives the artists the idea to calm down their colors and another encourages the artist to try shading! ( of course this is just my opinion lol ), It's nice to hear the Oc Clover'Kit went to a good home though!
Okay: support young artists, give them some criticism, tell them how to improve, not “ you suck af, you should quit “ but don’t give them fake advice, they’re not going to improve
Just finished the video! Quite well made, I forgot about this little guy.
This is why the internet needs to be gated. young kids should not be exposed to edgy teenagers and all of the kids need to be out of adult spaces.
Everyone in their life has been cringey or done/said something spicy at some point, the internet is dangerous because it will never let you change.
When I was younger I art traded with a far more experience artist. At the same time, I was given advice as well and well, being autistic/adhd with emotional dysregulation, I took it hard often. But I was also inspired by those willing to art trade with me. I started doing the same thing when I got more experienced myself.
Inspiring artists is one thing, but the constant praise must have felt demeaning. I mean, I knew that my art wasn't well. So telling me it's great and everything would feel so...fake?
We know when our art needs improvement, and I think that neutral praise is good. I've helped by art trading, creating bases, and the likes. The help experience artists has helped me and my oc is something that I will never let go now because it was my first trade and it means a lot^^
imo, art of young kids should not be critiquied unless they ask for it. kids at that age aren't looking to improve most of the time, and if they share their art it means they want praise or a sign someone likes their art, and a criticism could easily feel like an insult when they were hoping for a compliment. if you really want them to get better, compliment what they did well - they'll take care of the rest. the best way to improve at that stage is just to keep drawing. kids will find improvement on their own - i remember looking up drawing tutorials and critiquing my own work when i wanted to get better. but most of the time i just wanted to feel proud of my work, and if someone had told me at that age all the things i did wrong, even if they said it nicely, it would have been hurtful. this may not apply to everyone, but overall it's better to let a kid be proud of their work even if they might not immediately get better than risk putting them off from something they enjoy. so that's my take on that issue. about the project as a whole, it simply got to big, and i think it got too detached from the premise - it would be scary as a kid to suddenly see art of your character drawn by older people and the argument over those drawings - arguing about *you*. the best way to tackle this would have been to just give a bit of light support to the creator and know when to stop when it obviously got too overwhelming. young people should be allowed to find and pursue their passions without so much interference from strangers, and even minor publicity like this isn't good for a child. the intention was good and just a couple drawings would have been fine. but making it into a whole spectacle was always going to do more harm than good, and i think people just got too carried away with the sense of 'saving the day' and didn't consider the effect on the person they were trying to save
> internet veteran
> around in 2015
I remember in 2005 going on vacation with my parents and my dad showing me this cool new website called “TH-cam” on his laptop. God this made me feel old
I would too
Same... I began using the internet in 2008 and would've already been considered an "internet veteran" in 2015
I had a green oc when I was younger called Greenlizard! I still love him and use him to this day by making reasons he’s green-tinted now. He rolls in moss and grass all the time and has big green eyes!
I don’t think it was just the fanart. I think it was the bullying and patronizing. They wanted the bullying to stop, and they were being bullied for the amount of attention they were getting. When it was small there was sure enough less hate, when things get bigger more people see it and more hate comes. They unfortunately experienced this much too young. I would have hoped they got their parents involved, it would’ve kept them safer.
It was the fanart. I talked to them about it back then and Bold said that the fanart spam pissed him off and it was for a character they didn't even want fanart of. Cloverkit was a bad guy in their old script. Idk if it changes but imagine getting 2000 fanart of your serial killer OC, that's gotta be creepy.
@@Topdoggie7 I’d like fan arts of my oc’s regardless. Also, it was a stolen character anyways.
@@Mythical4227 I know that. I was there. They were panicking and acting very weird about things near the end. Like they'd been caught. But their Clover was a murderer so it was like Dahmer fanart.
@@Topdoggie7 Okay. Also uh, not really like that. Reality and fiction are different enough to be seen. Murder happens a lot in books and shows, I wouldn’t necessarily be as disgusted since the character doesn’t have real life victims. Thanks for your time
@@Mythical4227 When people make villains in fandoms they often don't want fanart of them. A great example is Miuseclaw who is a ped0phile. Their creator doesn't want fanart of them, especially shipped with their victim.
showering a CHILD artist with praise will definitely help them improve because they'll want to draw more and more and eventually, as every artist, they will improve regardless if they wanted to or not. I hope that the creator is doing good in life now and if they are somehow reading this, none of this was their fault. They drew a cute oc and whoever trashed it is embarrassing because at the end of the day... why do you care? They're not hurting anyone for creating the oc and if they're happy with it, let them be! No need for critique or saying that you hate it, just wish them luck for the future and that's the best thing to do.
I know that I absolutely loved getting compliments for my art when I was little, that is why I wanted to improve. People around me liked my art and wanted drawings so I wanted to learn how to draw more things and get better at them by myself, it wasn't making me egoistical or anything like that but it gave me the motivation to pursue art for all of my life and it is a fun hobby :)
Been on the Internet since around 2008 I believe, but *_boy_* have I never even heard of Cloverkit before up until this moment.
Fun fact for y'all: Ask an artist if they're comfortable with constructive criticism or at least be gentle with it. Everyone learns in different ways and some may be sensitive. Now don't "they need to learn how the world works" me, but you can't throw it straight at them. Learn about them and incorporate those things you've learned about them into your teachings. Don't scare them away like this incident. Good luck, and goodbye!
Edit: listen to what the reply said.
Best criticism I get is the kind that doesn't *feel* like criticism but is instead a lure that sends me on a Journey To Learn A Thing.
"Learn anatomy" is bad, "do you do that technique where you break poses down into simple shapes? I've seen an animator using that, it makes the poses look so natural!" is good-- at least from what I've experienced and seen. Also there's just something good about "doing it like the professionals do it too", that can be really validating-- knowing most pros don't just get the perfect lineart on the first go.
i remember i made a character named cloverkit and someone asked if it was tied to the project cloverkit (which i had no idea about at the time) so i was super confused
this video was super helpful tho! honestly such a sad story, but im glad cloverkit is in good hands now
Imagine a kid coming up to you and showing you some art they created and you telling them it looks horrible to their face. It’s like telling someone that they look fat. I swear too many people have no tact.
This feels like a thing where A) nobody asked for their help and B) that help became just as disgustingly condescending as when they were trashing them.
Like, it isnt about finding a middle ground at all. If help wasnt asked for, then keep to yourself. Definitely dont co opt someone else's stuff for a movement they never asked to be part of.
i feel like i hear it a lot and heavily disagree with the whole "if you only compliment them they'll never improve!". the artist is a kid. if someone really likes to make art and wants to pursue it, they will improve at it as they age and as they find new inspirations. this kid also wasn't in an art class or even asking for advice. i feel like some people are super bothered by objectively "bad art" and i genuinely don't get why. fun fact, even the greats couldn't hold a pencil or write at one point. everyone's art journey is different.
Despite anything, I think it is not good to claim any oc design is "bad" because they don't fit in a universe... when they have an unfitting colour of fur or other unrealistic features. Any "sparkle cat" (never heard that before, learned something new lol) is completely valid, people like using their favourite colours on their characters. It shouldn't be "forbidden" or looked down upon, just because the canon of the universe where the oc was made into says it's not real. It is an oc for a reason after all, not everyone does the "let me make a character so similar to the book characters that they might as well just exist in the book". Nah that is often boring. When unrealistic fur patterns or eyes are ok, unrealistic colours of fur should be too, beginner artist or not.
Instead of focusing on the character design to improve, it could have been focused on other art improvements... like anatomy tips maybe? The people drawing fanart of the character was not really encouraging "bad oc designs", especially when the oc design is so simple and up for interpretation. Could there be things improved on the design? Sure, there is always a way to improve something, but what if the creator prefers it just the way it is, nothing wrong with that either :3
I have a white cat character with blue markings, some say its unrealistic, but then they come from a viewpoint from outside, usually it's warrior cat fans, because of course there are no other cat ideas out there in some people's mind XD (sarcasm). It is not a warrior cat oc and in their own canon lore, they are a realistic design. There is many reasons why someone decides to make their cat or other animal have neon coloured fur/skin or whatever.
Edit:
Since I go off topic a lot, when people ask for something to stop, they probably should. Supportive or not. No means no. Also asking if you can give tips/if someone wants tips is a thing. But I am more on the opinion on letting artists be artist and create things, not everyone actually seriously wants to improve their art, some just want to have fun doodling... and that is perfectly fine... it is not a competition
Ngl I about cried watching this as a young artist its really sad to see a even younger artist just leave a platform because of something they can't control
For young creators the most important thing is always going for quantity. They need practice. The more they draw the better their art will get. People aren't that stupid and as they get older they will see all the different art on the internet and this is what will motivate them to improve. The argument that you should give advice to young, completely oblivious to the harsh reality of the world, children is just straight up wrong. And i don't mean that in like an opinion of mine. That is a fact. If you discourage a child they will never come back to what they once loved. And the same should go for adults. Whenever someone makes something. You should congratulate them. I'm gonna say it again. People aren't stupid. They do understand that something they made might not be perfect. But that's okay. As long as you ain't getting paid for it, it don't need to be perfect. So spread some love people, because That's what keeps us all alive ❤️❤️❤️
Hello friend of Bolt here. I am happy to say they are doing fine today. They wont come back to Deviantart or be under the same name. They are doing art again a lil. They are even making a few warrior cat series. They are Now Named "Yuyu" or "Yuevees" but dont mind still being called bolt by close friends. They still dont feel great about the incident but they have moved on and have more ocs they enjoy. I told them about gayfeatherstar's Account and They were happy they were in good hands. Bolt also said that they were sorry for stealing for the actual adoptable, they were young and really liked the design.
Good that they're doing well!
@@HeathRat Yeah. I am happy they decided to move on.
i remember project cloverkit, it was all over DA and even made its way to youtube, i even remember some old big names of the warriors fandom making videos and posts about it (that are long gone by now). it's the perfect example of "good intentions gone wrong".
tho i will say, bolt probably would have gotten scared off of DA eventually once people had found out the character was stolen... i remember 2015 was filled to the brim with drama on DA, call out posts and youtube videos were made of people ranting about OC theft, mary sues, recolors, etc... and knowing that cloverkit was actually a stolen adaptable, people would have no doubt made multiple posts and videos "calling out" bolt...
This sounds like a lighthearted movement that just kinda blew up out of proportion. It was interesting hearing about the impact of this, and how even positive attention can ultimately lead to a negative outcome for an online presence. I think the biggest takeaway is listening to the original creator and their intentions when it comes to how much criticism they are given. Are they expressly asking for you to criticize their art, or are they just doing it for fun? Maybe a mix of both, improving artists can always use some constructive feedback, what works and what doesn't but maybe they're also just posting their work for fun and don't plan to take it down a career path. I think that's something a lot of people on the internet need to consider, that information can at times be unnecessary when someone is not taking the topic as seriously. If you're posting heavily constructive feedback under a meme post or someone who just doesn't care about improving, is it really helpful to that person or just cathartic for you as the poster? That's something many people fail to consider when criticizing people online. If they're trolling or baiting which is the much more common outcome, they're likely doing it in a contrarian way that triggers other people to respond to them with attention they so desperately crave. That's not constructive, it's damaging. Even if the feedback itself is constructive, it can be framed in an aggressive way that the poster is meant to take in a negative way. If people would approach criticism from a place of helping the person rather than berating them, I think that would greatly improve the online space for art, among other creative endeavors.
0:26 this sound gave me a hit of nostalgia
5:28 MY FIRST AND ONLY OC FROM HALF A DECADE AGO IS NAMED DARKHEART AND LOOKS LIKE THAG
I'm a pretty established artist, but I remember what it was like as a young artist. I hated when people would say "it's good but" and then I'd beat myself up about not taking criticism when I did want to improve. I realized after having many young kids ask me to look at their work, that what I wanted was for someone to acknowledge what they specifically liked before jumping into it needing to be improved. I wanted my hard work and creativity to be acknowledged along with the ways to improve. I was excited by criticism that came from someone that noticed the details that I was proud of. I always show newer artists my excitement over their work before I tell them ways to improve. I acknowledge bits of it that I think they may have worked harder on, even if they aren't the best. I say things like "I can tell how much work you put into the eyes here! They look great! Was that your favorite part to work on? It shows! Can I suggest next time that you try (technique) on them? I bet that'll really make them pop! I would love to see where you go from here!" Etc. Things don't have to be perfect to be worth praise, and you can give small ways to improve without it being a full criticism.
As for the idea of drawing kids OCs, I just ask before I do it. I know that ruins the surprise, but they get just as excited, and it gives them the chance to be in control of their character. (I've yet to have someone say no though haha)
The clip note frog noise just sent me back in time
The nerve of some people, they should be ashamed of themselves for discouraging young artists. If they think that judging other young artists makes them better their wrong. IT MAKES THEM A BAD PERSON. The internet was made to inspire others, share and create what we create. Not to tear others apart and call out every little thing that we do. This chaos needs to STOP. If you or someone you know is shaming young artists, report it immediately. Never reply or respond to what the person is saying, it makes the situation worse. Many artists like cloverkit are going through the same thing, no body deserves to feel discouraged.
the idea that an artist won't grow if they only get compliments is pretty dumb imo. ive been posting art online since i was 12 and never got any constructive criticism that i can remember. no one bothered to give me the time of day, to sit down and write a comment on how to improve my shitty ms paint art. and yet, ive still improved a lot over the years. i think at worst, it can come off as shallow if the praise is over the top. i really had someone make one of those "are you a disney animator" comments towards me and even at a younger age i was like holy shit you're lying at this point lol. you don't have to say a young artists' work is super amazing but small compliments can go a long way in encouraging them.
I got a LOT of compliments from well-meaning people when I was writing a really bad mary sue in DragonBall Z. (And I mean Mary Sue, I'm pretty sure that she scored almost 85% on the general Mary Sue litmus test back in the day, tragic backstory, true love who saves the canon reformed villain from his tragic past and heals him with the power of love-- ALL of the worst tropes, and she was just visually Schala from Chrono Trigger with a cat tail.)
That constant stream of only good compliments encouraged me to write more... but I didn't know what I was doing and I was basically just chewing up other people's bad romance fics and spitting that back out and serving that to my readers-- with a side of having only learned english for a year and all the bad english that entailed and all the rampant plagiarizing any turn of phrase that I liked a lot.
So it made me more productive but gave me a giant ego where I really thought I was a really really good young writer and that I didn't need to improve ANYTHING.
It took a flame to insult me so bad that I chose violence and decided to show I was a good writer by writing "like all the professional writers"-- and that was how I ended up actually learning how to write well and sought out ALL THE GUIDES on what to do, what a Mary Sue was, how to avoid it, how to build on canon instead of kicking it apart to fit my ideas in there, basically learning what the rules are so I could choose to break them.
I think criticism is best delivered from friends than strangers. A bit of criticism is essential but ultimately the best way to improve is to draw a lot, and at least for me I drew a lot because I thought I was doing really well and loved what I made.
Tbh I don’t like it when people make their cats unnatural colors (Ex: Bright purple cat with rainbow spots) but this doesn’t give anyone the right to bully someone for it! It’s their OC in their story! Everyone starts off small and slowly make their way up, your supposed to support young artists not attack them! Cloverkit isn’t a bad OC, he’s actually really really cute! It’s super rude that Bolt stole him as well!
I'm like a social media person for a RP sever about making your own countries I just realized we use OC as original countries 💀💀
I love your music background selection. It's very upbeat. Also your voice is really smooth. Nice video!
Cloverkits original art looks almost IDENTICAL to how my art looked when I first started And now I sell my designs for around $70 a cat design, sometimes more. Idk why people think children need to improve super fast or think that if you don’t insult their art they won’t improve at all, realistically that just ruins their motivation and confidence in their art.
I never really knew about Cloverkit as I was never raised reading Warrior Cats, but dang was this a wild ride. Kids start somewhere, and I will stand by the fact that the younger the artist, the more support they need. When I was a kid, I definitely took critique the wrong way and drama my friend encountered over sharing their OCs meant I was hesitant to share my original OCs and even make fan OCs (then again it was the Undertale fandom so why am I surprised?). Today I’ve grown a thick skin and can see the difference between critique and mindless hate and have plenty of OCs spread across different fandoms and even some from my own original work and I’m very proud of them all. I will still stand by the ‘sandwich’ method for critiquing an artist’s work. Basically, it’s a piece of advice/critique hidden in a compliment so it wouldn’t be seen as “OH NO! SOMEONE SAYS I DID SOMETHING WRONG! THEY MUST HATE MY ART!!”. For example, “I think Cloverkit is really cute! If you want to improve on drawing him, might I suggest looking up references of cats to learn anatomy. Keep up the great work!”. I wouldn’t see this as a critique, I’d see this as someone liking my work and giving me tips on how to improve. Project Cloverkit was a nice sentiment but it definitely helps to ask the original artist for consent to use their work for the project.
However, even as a kid, I would say it’s not cool to steal. When I was starting out I definitely copied other artists’ work to practice, but I never claimed them to be mine. Today if I ever do something like that for practice purposes I don’t even post it online (then again, I generally prefer learning techniques and using them in my own work over straight up copying these days). Still, Bolt probably didn’t know any better and wherever they are, I hope they’re still drawing.
This inspired me to not be upset about my art getting criticized! And I also have a DeviantArt account! Thanks, Soleil!
I believe criticism should only be handed to artists who explictly state they want that feedback. Not all of them are looking to improve and to insinuate to be an artist you have to constantly reinvent the wheel and that wanting to make it for fun remaining at the same skill level isn't an option is needless gatekeeping. Artists who never improve because they don't want to or because they don't know how are impossible to tell apart at first glance, so it's better to be positive or say nothing at all until their boundaries are expressed. This is especially true of kids who can have bad rejection sensitivity (which is nothing to be ashamed of)! Some take it in stride, others don't, plenty would rather learn as they go rather than it being pointed out for the world to "laugh at", etc., and these are all valid perspectives! Consent is the key word and it should've been asked what Bolt wanted, both in terms of feedback and whether this project should've started. I love the idea of the movement, but it was lacking in execution. Maybe a revival could happen to combat cringe culture while solving previous issues this campaign caused! Hoping they're doing well and I thank you for creating this lovely nuanced video! ♥️
People shouldn't bully a child that should be illegal in my opinion as an adult who was bullied myself and I have a lot of pent up anger from it including online and since then I have a lot of dark thoughts of hurting people who wronged me in the past I know it's wrong to hurt people and violence isn't the answer to problems but it's how I feel
So basically the person stolen art what an idiot
is anyone going to point out how ironic that one pic of a cloverkit with "don't be afraid to draw badly uwu" is on it??? Same energy to me as "complimenting" people like WOW you are SO brave for going out in public with a face that ugly! Like jesus christ lmfao
I genuinely believe that the kid had good potential. If the project hadn’t made them deactivate their account, they probably would’ve continued to get better
I understand and fully support trying to prevent bullying and shaming younger creators for their artwork, cause that alone has scared some beginning artists off of platforms. But also showering one with praise can become overwhelming. It was different with the fact clover kit was stolen, and honestly it was probably because they were young, they knew they were stealing, and that also influenced their leave, as guilt started piling up with rising popularity. All in all, the point of the movement should've been; we can help people improve without showering them with love, or being a complete jerk about it.
When i was younger I created animations alot and my art wasn't very good, and I soon got into a little community and had like two friends. I then started getting some hate comments and eventually bored with animation and focused on drawing up until now (many years later) however unlike how I posted my animations I never posted my art because during the animation to just art transition I saw how much more hate people with beginner artstyles got just for not being good instantly. So I was wayy to scared to post my art, and frankly I still am. I don't really know how I'd handle hate now and as I see it useless and ignorant I don't think it would effect me much but it's still not a good thing to see when you are proud of something. But this is just my experience with the art community, people who bully little kids are so gross.
One thing that I'd like to point out is that Bolt DOES know what adoptables are, but she probably thought that the art in the top left was a free base, not an adoptable, since it didn't have any colors.
This is one of the most interesting videos I’ve ever seen, not even gonna lie. I hope Bolt is well and I’m glad that Cloverkit is in good hands!
First time hearing of this and yeah this definitely gives off vibes of a buncha kids wanting to do the right thing (that is support a fellow young artist) that got very outta hand. it’s a shame especially for bolt but I honestly can’t be too mad, since again at the end of the day what I see is what I’m assuming are mostly kids seeing someone’s work being made fun of behind their backs and wanting to throw in some support. Although I can definitely see how this would’ve gotten overwhelming for bolt, I mean I likely would’ve been at that age too ESPECIALLY when the rude comments and fighting started bleeding in.
I definitely think critique is very important for any artist who wants to grow and improve their craft I 100% agree (although I believe it should be approached differently depending on skill level and age, cause like I don’t think going to a twelve year old posting their MLP ocs to Instagram for them and their friends with the same bluntness you’d give an art student looking to get into the industry is the best idea and could overwhelm or even discourage the kid. You can still totally give them critique especially if they want it but just be sure to remember your giving it to a young kid who likely isn’t super experienced with even getting critiqued yet and not someone who’s in the industry who’s likely gone to school for this.)…given this was during the era of cringe culture was kinda at its peak and this was all started from one of those “bad art” tumblr blogs. I do worry about how much of it was genuine constructive criticism aiming to help a young artist improve and how much of it was just people bullying the kid and calling it criticism to shield themselves with the whole “you just can’t take REAL criticism! Your being too sensitive!” If they get called out for it (used to see A LOT of that back in the day) and how much of it was people with genuine feedback trying to help bolt improve being unfortunately caught up by the waves.
I could go on for longer about this and how much I feel like cringe culture really fucked with how people especially kids view art critique but I’d be here for ages, Either way I hope everyone that was involved especially bolt are doing better now wherever they are and whatever their doing. This seemed like a well meaning project that really got outta hand
Jesus Christ this is the reason the internet has issues these days, someone hates on something, then people defend it, then they try to support the art, but they cause an entire damn drama 🗿
Yep
That's the internet for you.
Humanity at it's worse.
yeah, I feel like you gotta walk on eggshells for almost anything you do on the internet. Like “give support but not too much!!” And I’m just like huh
I think the major thing people miss is when you're getting into art that young, you're not meant to be building skill, not yet. You're meant to be building passion, a love for drawing and creating art. Skill comes second, because there's no point in building a skill you're not passionate about. I believe a gentle amount of encouragement goes a long way in helping foster that want to grow and get better, but obviously in the Cloverkit case, that encouragement became overwhelming. Critique is not something budding young artists will really know what to do with yet, it can just end up discouraging. Besides that, most people who critique art like that tend to do it in bad faith anyway, and it is just bullying disguised as "trying to be helpful". I got so much of that when getting into writing and doing fanfic. I personally was able to get over it and now writing is my full time job, but those "critiques" were 100% unhelpful to my journey.
The best critique I ever got (apart from the flame that got me so mad at being called bad that I decided I'd "show them" and prove I can write top tier after too many people just praised me nonstop and gave me a case of big ego)?
"Learn the rules so you can break them intentionally."
Imagine repeatedly tossing the words "Bad art" around so casually, that must've sucked for them to hear.
"Don't be afraid to draw badly" Really?
I can only hope it isn't a hot take when I say I've always thought the "showering an artist with praise won't help them improve" (which can be applied to any child with any kind of passion) is dumb. It's outright common knowledge that positive reinforcement shows the best results, be it with training a dog, or with setting up children to be successful with and passionate about their job/hobby. I'm genuinely astounded at how brainless and devoid of empathy people can be, to think that harassing a child over their art style will help anyone in any way. I'm pretty sure anyone with such a simplistic art style, even a child, is aware that it's by no means phenomenal, and won't get in over their head and think they've achieved godhood and don't need to improve anymore whatsoever just because they were praised by some strangers on the internet. (And heck, even if they did develop a god complex from it, that's just not how art works; people's art style constantly changes and evolves, be it consciously/willingly, or subconsciously and potentially unwillingly. Even if they genuinely think they don't need to improve that won't stop their style from evolving)
And I wish I could say this was just how it was back in 2015, but it hasn't really gotten any better. There's a notable amount of people agreeing that cringe culture is dumb and we should be over it by now, but there's still a bigger number of people who play right into it. I mean, it's enough to sort the comments on this video by new and the same type of people will be right there