Debunking Myths: Charging Lithium Batteries with a Lead Acid Charger!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 24 ก.พ. 2024
- If you ask around, in most circles folks will tell you that in order to charge up a lithium iron phosphate battery pack you need a special lithium battery charger.
I'm calling cap. In this video I demonstrate how to effectively (and more importantly, safely) charge a lithium battery pack with a simple lead acid battery charger. I also illustrate the differences between a lead acid battery charger and a LifePo4 battery charger, then graph out the charging curves using each on the same battery pack.
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Thanks for the battery bro... great information too ... and thanks for taking my calls after i purchase your battery and answering all my dumb questions.
No such thing as a dumb question - especially when playing with batteries capable of discharging thousands of amps to a dead short!
Always better safe than sorry.
I love real test videos, thx for showing this. I was so confused on which charger to get for my 96ah headways or if i even needed one. I want to hook it up in the vehicle and see how fast it charges & rest at w/o any amps hooked up.
Thank you for the content brother!
Update on my powmr all in one .They now have one with an MPPT solar charge controller , it it says it can use lithium batteries now. It is an incredibly low price of $400. I believe it is a pure sine wave, 2000 watt continuous inverter.
Nice job
Really needed that info
Thanks for the information. I already have a Schumacher smart charger and was wondering if it would be sufficient or will I need to get a lithium charger. Keep up the good work my guy. Much respect
Should be ok if it's a lead acid battery charger, juts leave it in "normal" or "agm" mode. I'm not 100% sure what repair mode even does in reality, but I think that's what I'll test out next.
great content and I love your charger tools led current readouts. I only have a Fluke and its great for voltage but doesn't read current. oh nice infrared temp checker I have one but its not like yours . excellent!! Also excellent advice not leaving batteries unattended while charging is the best Info!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also, if a lead acid battery, only charges a lithium battery up to 80% max capacity, this means a 200 AH lithium battery is only being charged to 160 AHS capacity. ..so for a 12 volt lithium battery, you are losing around 500 watt hrs of useable capacity.
I've had a bank of lifepo4 remain in the 14s once balanced properly for 2-3 weeks one time before it dropped into the 13s.
I love watching the content!! Keep them tests coming!!! 💯💪🏻⚡
Yep, open circuit it’ll hold for quite a bit. Even tiny amounts of draw though will get it back to the 13s fast.
For about 10 years I've been using an 8s, lifepo4 battery, [24v ], on a "lead acid only', 2000 watt "POWERJACK" UPS inverter that has an [up to] 80 amp charger. The charger has been on for at least 10 years, and those batteries are fine. So, I guess it's OK. It has aknob to select the lead acid battery you want and the GEL URO, setting is 28.8 charge volts and a 27.6 float charge volts. Like other chargers ,it throtles down towards the end of the charge Float won't come on unless low enough. The UPS, is in an old camper parked next to my house, with big fat extension cords I made, going to and from the house power. runs all lights,[ mostly LED ], computer/internet/cable,ruoter, WIFI, HW BASEBOARD furnace. When the storms knock out the power, I'm toasty warm watching you tube and making coffee on the gas stove. That cost a lot back then. People said, "don't do it ,don't do it". But it was hard to find a definite reason not to. I looked up specs, and voltages and learned all I could but never got consistent answers for, WHY NOT. The specs are exact as far as I could tell. So I Saved up some money and played Ebay roulette and sent $600 off to china. I won.
Now these are cheap. So I bought the cheapest [About $300 now], Ebay, all in one 1500 watt, pure sine inverter/30 amp house charger/ 50A PWM Solar Controller, said to be made for " 24 volts lead acid Only" and the Ebay seller told me, "don't buy this if you are going to use lifepo4". . This thing is AWESOME. Every imaginable parameter is adjustable through WIFI app, on my phone. Every voltage is adjustable and you can turn the float charge off completely. Why on earth would they say ,"lead acid only" If you want one that says lithium, $500-700-1000. .
It may not be MPPT, solar charge controller, but, at that size of solar, no big deal. I do have some nice MPPT charge controllers, if I really find I want MPPT.
PMW controllers are low volt high amps, meaning you might need bigger gauge cables to solar. Where-as MPPT can run higher voltage and really low amps for a smaller and cheaper line to your solar. I'm buying as many as I can. My first one, a year and a half ago , was $239. I just got another and they are $309. The wifi module,was extra and a H U G E PAIN IN THE BUTT. Lots of different ones that look the same. I Bought 2 before getting the right one sent. For the price it is insane cool.
Sir, may I ask if you xan charge a LifePO4 (51.2V) 48Vbattery with a 52V Lithium Ion charger (58.4V max charge)? thank you very much!
Thank you for the video. I just bought 74ah of Lev60 and searching for info on how to charge it ive found nothing but conflicting information. Half says you can use a lead acid charger and the other half says you can't or you will damage your battery bank. Im going with the info in this video. I planned to keep an eye on it while its charging. Thanks again. 👍
Am I correct in assuming, that if the battery charger has a choice between charging a lead acid or gel battery, it would be better to choose the gel battery setting, to charge a lithium battery, because the gel battery setting will charge up to a slightly higher voltage then lead acid setting ?
Sir i need help 😊🙏 can i use just 6x45ah lithium cells and remove my AGM battery from the car audio? I running standard alternator too. can it work without issues?
I been saying this for years when lithium came a big thing for car audio..... because if your car can run & charge your lithium battery but your battery charger can't something doesn't add up that math wouldn't math out ! It was just a way for the industry to sell " lithium" chargers for Mark up . If you needed a specific or special charger then your cars alt wouldn't work for it either !
The main thing a lifepo4 battery charger does differently is it turns off after the battery is full..
If you leave a lead acid charger hooked up, it will float the battery @ full as long as you leave it hooked up and would begin to degrade the cell after a few days constant.
@@GloweIndustriesolso if you have a transformer charger, not like new ones... Olso will still charge the battery. With 15...16....etc. volts. It's too mutch, even if the bms is limitting the charge, it's better to have another safety ... If bms broke, will sure explode. Tell me about litium and lead acid batteries conected in paralel if you have a movie, but i need for a solar sistem at 24 or 48 volts... How safe is it? In series and parralel. I have 4 battery 120 amps lead acid each and 4 battery 200 amps lifepo4 each. The quality of the lead acid i don't know... Tell me what do you think about. Thanks!
Ive been using a lead acid battery to charge the headway just make sure you keep an eye on it so you dont over charge lol
Exactly. Don't let them sit and float at 14.8v.
So you can run them with acid batteries while driving just shut the connection off if sitting correct?
Nice vid mate. Isnt another issue that lead acid chargers do not charge at between 14.2 and 14.6 which is what lithium batteries requires for a full charge? Lead acid chargers might charge at only 13.8v and hence only get the lithium battery to around 80%
From my research this is what it seems to do. There is not enough voltage to get the Lithium to full charge.
When i charged my glowe industries voltage lithium battery series 2 it charged to 14.6 and stopped charging.... fully charged and ready too ROCK N ROLL😊
Battery does not know the difference. As long as its not overcharged that's all that matters
Yep exactly - which is why it's important to take it off of the lead acid battery charger. Lithium batteries don't like sitting at 100% for extended periods of time, even if not taking the voltage over limit.
🙏🤜
Any advantage in using a "smart" charger over a "dumb" charger?
I have both but no lithium specific chargers...
Will the "smart" charger be safer if you leave a charger on longer than you should? By a few hours?
That seems like the main advantage to me, that ratcheting down to float mode that they have, or most have so as not to fry battery...yes you say dont leave it that way for long but if Im not babysitting it the float for a few hours seems safer than an old style charger...
Okay...so should I have an amp meter and take it off when amperage gets really low like you did or should I go by voltage
or both?
If battery notifies of "full charge" as a function of the charger, can I just trust that and disconnect at that point?
I assume I can use a Multimeter to check volts and amps as opposed to your fancy device, right?
Those cells max voltage is 3.65v each or 4x3.65=14.7 thats how they are compatible with 12v systems. lithium ion is not because the voltages dont match well 4.2v max each cell. 3 x 4.20v = 12.6volts max, cars charge at 14.7 volts when running, so lithuim would need another cell which would put it at 16.8v to high a voltage for car, 15v max. In reality we need a lead acid manufacture to make 7 cell battery's 2 x 7 = 14. forget nominal bullshit we all charge them to max then use them so that's just dumb. It is the max voltage thresholds they dont want you to pass. any combination of chargers in series or parallel will work as long as you don't go over the maximum pack voltage or single cell voltage it doesn't really matter what you use to charge them wall warts laptop chargers car charger welders alternators generators solar, the problem is when you exceed the Max voltage lithium in any form whether it's phosphate or ion or polymer, cobalt is unstable when you exceed its maximum voltage and it leads to thermal runaway which I think we've all seen which starts fire so keep it below the pack Max or at the pack Max your fine. We all grew up as kids with those rechargeable batteries nickel cadmium and nickel metal hydride when those batteries were charging they would get hot and it was OK for them to get hot lithium isn't allowed to get hot if it gets hot you have problems or you will soon have problems. So use a voltmeter check the charger check your pack simple and you use whatever you want.
I also have never used a BMS ever in my life I usually take them out of whatever lithium I'm using because I don't want them to disconnect the battery when it gets out of range that's not good for any device to just jerk the power so I don't use BMS if the batteries are quality they should stay in balance you don't need something constantly topping them off or discharging the next bank that's just a waste of power and time if they don't stay balanced by themselves then you need to take that bank out and replace it with another bank that will match the other bank even if they're older whatever it doesn't matter as long as they stay at the same voltage that's what they call match packs but lithium is almost always matched because it has to be for the BMS to work right but you don't need a BMS if they get that far out of voltage then you know something's wrong and you just pull it out of service and you fix it.
Hi i see you knows alot about batterys , so i need your advice i want to replace the lead acid battery in my UPS with lithium ion, will this work with the charging in that system it uses two lead acid series .
Thank you for this video..😅😅
If I need a lithium charger to charge lithium then I guess I better find the infamous lithium dedicated charging alternators to 🤦🏻 I swear the regurgitated misinformation has gotten so out of hand with no basis or testing to back any of the statements that get thrown around is well beyond my belief of just taking a person's word versus not only using some.knowledge. but common sense goes a long way in its own right to shoot holes in alot of.these "claims of dos.and don't do" of lithium
I'll take six lithium alternators. Thx.
Possibly a little off topic, but does it matter or make a difference if you charge before or after the shunt? I’m guessing if you were to charge before the shunt the incoming charge would not be monitored right?
100% correct. That’s why we ground to the load side of the shunt.
@@GloweIndustries I had not tried myself to see, without thinking about it I had been charging with an external charger after the shunt already, still think your should do a shunt setup video I think it would be good content since there is not a lot of info out there on how to do it and the reasons why it’s setup in that format! Btw your making me wana trade out all my shrink for the glowe shrink it looks good!!!
Why does the monitor show direction arrow TOWARDS load FROM battery during charging i your video?
Hah, this question made me look at other videos and my setup.
If the red arrow is pointing LEFT, current is flowing TO the battery. If the red arrow is pointing RIGHT power is going to the load.
In this video the red arrow is pointing left, indicating charging. That's also why the listed amp hours of the battery are going up as it is charged.
TO EVERYONE IN TH-cam LAND
I'm an electronic engineer
If I need a special lithium battery charger to charge a lithium motorcycle battery
THEN WHY AM I NOT CHANGING THE ALTERNATOR AND VOLTAGE REGULATOR ON MY BIKE (THAY ARE FOR LED ACID )
the BMS ( Battery Management System ) in the lithium battery dose this for us !!!
please do not give out False info . the battery is made at the factory as a direct replacement (hens the name "motorcycle" battery) for a led acid battery
AND "DOSE NOT REQURE A special CHARGER" !!
A BIG THANK YOU HE GOT IT RIGHT HE KNOWS HIS BATTERY AND CHARGING SYSTEMS
Clearly an engineer and not an English major.
Can i just add a lithium charger to my rv without replacing existing lead acid charger? Will they interfere?
if you put a lead acid battery in parallel to the lithium and had the charger on the lead acid battery... would it work better or differently? would the lead acid charge and at the same time charge the lithium fully? then how about a lithium charger on a lith that is parallel to a lead acid? will it blow up the lead acid?
The lithium due to lower IR will end up charging at a more rapid rate than the lead acid. Lead acid also floats at a higher voltage easier (less amperage required to spike voltage while charging).
Generally you're going to see the lifepo4 consuming (as well as discharging) almost all of the amperage being used unless you're pulling it down into the 12v range.
What brand of paint did we just watch dry?
Sherwin-Williams!
I mean if a high output alternator can charge lithium battery, why can't a regular battery charger...
Exactly. Just don’t let it float charge it for days on end etc.
@@GloweIndustrieswhat float charging mean?
@@andrewhenn3411 using a very small charge to keep a battery at its maximum voltage over a period of time.
Is there some 30 second takeaway hidding somewhere in this video?
Yes. You can charge your lifepo4 batteries with a lead acid charger.
I charged a sealed lead acid with a lithium charger and it ruined ITIT got really hot And this was a very expensive metal charger With a digital readout
Lithium chargers generally mean LiPo charger which charges at a voltage that isn’t safe for lead acid.
A lifepo4 charger will generally work to charge up a lead acid battery, though.
SO I can Add a 280 amp CHINS LiPo4 to 2 RENOGY 200 Amp AGM's and MAKE them each Battery Banks
I got 200amp hrs of AMG ran wth 100amp hrs of lifepo4 lithium on a 4k.
I don't have any experience with CHINS, that said.. We need to clarify something you said.
There are LiPo --> Li(thium)Po(lymer) batteries,
and
LifePo4 --> Li(thium)Fe(iron)Po4(Phosphate) batteries.
You said LiPo4 which is kind of in the middle.. LiPo batteries should not be run in parallel with an AGM etc. LifePo4 has a nominal voltage of 12.8v and is very close to that of a lead acid battery @ 12.6.
LiPo in 4S would have a nominal voltage of 14.4.
LIFEPO4 Lithium Iron Phosphate are what These CHINS are at 12 Volt 280amp Capacity and I was hoping they would Run Just Fine with RENOGY AGM 200 amp hour Batteries here
@@1GREATDANEsend it, you’ll be fine. 💯
LifePo4 + AGM is good to go.