We Thought our Turbo Predator 670 Dragster was Ready for the Moon Tune, But…
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You guys need to keep a notebook of weather conditions and jet size to help speed up your tuning at the track for subsequent visits. Also, John, it was great to see you take the C10 down the strip. No need to apologize for your shifting, you put your heart, soul and wallet into that truck. As long as it puts a smile on your face and doesn't break, you're good to go!
Amen to that brother!!
just go efi :)
theres no denying that it looked epic! really sweet old truck
Exactly, if they know the DA they can create a chart for jet size and boost pressure.
Don't matter how fast, as long as you have fun, that's my opinion. Ole dude has been working on that for a long time.
The Rail has always been one of my favorites of your projects. When it got hit, and driven into/under a truck at Busco Beach my heart just about stopped (I was across the road, saw it happen and I almost cried.) To see it where it is now is amazing. You guys have done so much work to get to the point where you are working on the puzzle of fuel delivery. I save these videos to watch when I can sit down and really enjoy them, every time.
Guys, it's time to call Holley. I'm sure they would love to hear from you. John, it's your truck. You built it, you drive it the way you want to. There are hundreds of thousands of trucks out there. This is the only one you built with your blood, sweat and tears. Awesome to see it run faster than it was ever intended. 👍👍
If I’m not mistaken haltech already sponsored and sent out an ecu for this build
Glad you all are getting the most out of this engine and really pushing it to its limits instead of just getting a bigger engine
The thing is, we don’t think it’s at its limits yet!
@jasonpettit1586n what? I didn't understand none of that big dog
@@CarsandCameras'm not a engine builder but i'm sure that the majority of the problens you guys are having is because of the fuel, it need a lot more than just a jet swap to run methanol, maybe if you guys use race gas or E85 (with a proper spark plug) that thing would go faster because would be easyer to Jet it correctly
@@braziliansheetbox2497It takes more than just jetting to run E85 as well. Being 85% alcohol, it’s closer to methanol than gasoline. If you look on performance parts websites like Jegs or Summit, you will see that e85 carbs are different than either gas or alcohol carbs. I’ve been running E85 since they started having it at the pump in the mid 2000’s, and it’s a great fuel. Part of the problem is methanol is costing them power right now because they aren’t running enough boost or compression to need it. E85 would be a better choice, and they need to talk to some good carb shops about building a carb for them for E85.
@carsandcameras put a small block Chevy I'm it 😂
I know it's a bit complicated, but I think e-85 with EFI and a better intake will really help with tuning. But will probably be easier in the long run to squeeze more HP out than messing with jets and methanol. Plus you could always put that EFI system on a different build in the future.
Anyway, hoping to see this thing hit the low 7's at some point!
I bet they could get low to mid 7s on just 100 octane race fuel. Their just guessing on the fueling and tuning. They also need someone who can tig weld to build them a quality intake. They're leaving so much on the table with the hacksmith tuning.
Honestly I think going to a EFI system and better intake would make it more consistent and easier to make fuel changes
i think they just dont have the knowledge to tune a laptop and they never will. ive been subbed to this channel since way back and when its something thats not mechanical, they are just not smart at it. It took them so many years just to learn to build a frame while other channels ive watched already are building full tube cars properly.
They honestly need to call up Haltech and get it done already tbh
Holley makes a self tuning efi. So why couldn’t someone make a smaller version? They need some oxygen sensors in it. Stop throwing parts at it and diagnose exactly what it’s doing.
@@DatBlueHuskyframe building is super complicated, roll cages as well. Unless you have someone that already knows how to do it teach you it's going to be a lot of trial and error.
It taking years isn't out of the question especially if your not doing it every day.
@@DatBlueHuskyit's not that they don't have the knowledge or can't get it.its just they are more scared to . Because it's easier for some to stick to their old ways . Even though it can hinder their progression at times.
That ol' small block in your truck sounds SO GOOD. I love the sound of an sbc.
It does sound good!! It DOESN'T, however, sound all that 'mild'.... (;
Hopefully that Fuel Injection setup will help keep things more consistent.
a different motor and an actual transmission might help possibly.. lmfao
@@iroekyjHDno
@@iroekyjHD they can keep the 670 because there's more aftermarket support than the bigger 998, they just need efi
@@reaperasylum literally buy a totaled R6 and done
670 rotax
A bad day at the strip is still better than a good day at work. I still believe you guys will get the rail sorted out and it'll surprise you all. Second, John.......I LOVE everything about your truck. The color...stance...powertrain....it's a gorgeous ride and it was great seeing it go down the 1/8th. Finally....that 55 Chevy was ACE!
in the 80s i raced a home made vechicle made out of a old gambler frame and old v8 253 and like you we tried everything to go faster, and the one thing it taught me is we should have started again from scratch then put in everything we learned into the new build
Hey guys, once you get the engine putting out as much power as possible, THEN, I feel that you will gain a substantial amount of performance by tuning the drive clutch. Figure out where your power band is, and play with the weights and spring (in the drive clutch) to get the clutch to engage within the power band. You want to put all your hp to the ground on take off, so you have to get those rpm’s up there. Snowmobile dragsters have been doing it for years. Heavier spring/lighter weights will make a difference. But it takes a lot of trial and error. Good luck.
The dirt cheap rail is literally the one thing that always brings me back to this channel lol Keep after it,broken doesn't mean beat,and that's just racing.
Being around high performance cvt transmission it definitely seems like it’s lacking a ton of rpm down low. I would really be interested in seeing exactly what they did to tune the clutch setup. If it’s only pulling hard up top it’s probably set way too heavy on the clutch weights.
That was a real pleasure watching you take your truck down the strip my friend!!! Been watching you and Ike for what feels like a decade..... always seeing that beautiful thing in the background and watching you wrench on it here and there..... i literally feel like i had seen you with a 2yo daughter and we just all watched her graduate ❤ thank you for sharing!!!
This Old Man from Washington NC always enjoying your videos 👍. John really enjoyed seeing you run the truck ❤️. Wednesday's highlight to my week with your videos 👏. Love You Guys 🛵🧔💝💝💝
Mad tuning experience was won tonight. The humidity + the special fuel you're running... Air pressure is important. You need a barometer for tuning.
That rail job looks so sweet. Could it use some minimal airflow help? Like a little Café bubble shield, even just a little lip, Keep the air (and oil) off yer chest.
Loved the build series on this old gal, and been following the dragstrip adventures all along. Such a killer project. Got it really tuned in tonight!
Everybody worked real hard there. Yo Chuck, get you a straw hat dude. That sun is brutal. Ike was the real hero today though. He has the technology.
Y'all definitely need to raise the stall speed up and it will definitely go down in the 7s ...it sounded so lazy taking off the line...but you definitely got it going in the right direction and you are learning the meth..fuel system... good video guys....
With methanol and nitro you need it to almost be dumping fuel out the exhaust. Definitely try the jet at 1/8 inch because that’s what it is on my pulling tractor and we run a blower
Did the card get rebuild to run with Methanol, need custom built carb to allow large amount of fuel to pump out, with large fuel pump...
Love seeing your truck run down the track and always like the mini dragster making better and better runs
The truck is sounding healthy John! Good work
Thanks!
I'm always excited to see the rail. And to see the Chevy run was great! Been seeing that truck in various stages along the way.
I've been thinking about it, and with the design of that car you're just a few parts away from being able to make a cool 2 speed transmission pretty easily, similar to a "chain-gang" Frazer Nash. Run the jack shaft through to the right side of the car and add a sprocket set with a different ratio to that side, connected by a clutch - I was thinking a pneumatic fan clutch from a semi truck out of the junkyard would do, those transmit 80-100 hp for a million miles. Then on the left side of the car put the drive sprocket on a sprag clutch - you can appropriately sized ones from McMaster Carr. When you put the air to the pneumatic clutch you'll be in high gear, and the sprag clutch on the left side will freewheel. That could give this thing some top end charge!
I have never seen such a setup, and I’m a truly old fart. This sounds cool as hell!
What you guys are doing is fantastic. I have watched this build from its beginning. You have been working so hard trying to get your machine to get a better track time that you have overlooked one of the basics of engine building. You have a turbo with a pull through carb. If this is all you have, you're doing the best you understand. In the long run, the engine is being destroyed by too much fuel, gas or methanol, in the oil. This increases the blow-by, therefore needing multiple catch cans to keep the track clean. I know you have financial hold backs, but if you watch the big racers, you'll see a lot of them rebuild the engine after each race. I know you're not able to do this. Check your compression and see where it's at. Go from there -- but the biggest thing I want for you guys is to beat JOHN'S time. IIRC it is 91 mph. I know you can do it. Keep up the fantastic contend. Keep on Building on
Love seeing the 670 dragster.... All the people commenting to "put a motorcycle engine in it" obviously haven't been watching the channel very long.... That has been addressed
Keep working 💪 fellas! This one is my favorite! Loved watching the Chevy finally run the track!
I'm in the UK (Yorkshire), but I have a friend who races a dirt modified at Dennison, east Texas. He runs methanol, and has to cover the radiator, because it runs cold on methanol! Chevy 350 engine.
I'm loving your videos guys, I've been watching from the start 👍
I think we all was feening for this video. Glad to see you moved closer to my area. Hopefully one day me and my son can meet you guys. Ty for all the wonderful content.
Man I've been waiting forever for content on the truck. Looks and sounds awesome. Beautiful ride!
It was awesome seeing you get the truck out there John! Great to see it in the wild!
I wonder if an accelerator pump and a programmable timing setup would help with the sluggish launches and performance issues.
Glad to see y'all finally fixed the magneto shut off problem. Check the dang timing. Convert to MSD ignition. Two coils and two pickups should work just fine.
You guys need a fuel pump, an oversized bowl, and a powerjet in that carb if you want to ever see it's full potential. You're gonna end up frying a piston, or valve because it's running lean in the high rpm's.
I wish someone would've given me this valuable information years ago..
Methanol isn’t meant for carburetor’s especially with no fuel presssure and a blow through turbo It takes a lot of fuel with boosted meth
That's what I was thinking. Definitely sounds too lean.
@@dfcjr it stumbles at full throttle because…. No fuel
Great video,
I have an idea how you can build an injection for the rail.
You need a high-pressure pump from a diesel and the injection nozzles, you have to put the nozzles directly in front of the valves in the inlet.
Now just coordinate the ignition order with the injection order, connect the pump to the engine and fill some two-stroke oil into the fuel to lubricate the pump, then there should be no problems with the fuel supply (hopefully).
It is worth a try.😅
It is still hilarious (to me) that the Drag Rail is faster than John's sweet C10.
Guessing that "Power to Weight Ratio" is alot more serious than many think!
One of the coolest channels on TH-cam.. keep it up guys you'll get it soon enough
efi would solve all your issues. id love to see you guys put a fuel tech on the rail and even setup boost control. you guys could make so much more power if you could tune spark and fuel on the fly with a wideband. great video keep em comin!
Why a fueltech? So many other Ecu's that do more, are easier to setup and half the price of a fueltech even with a display on top.😮
@@garyhowe88I agree. Fueltech is bottom of the barrel and very outdated. I run Holley on everything because when I tell them I putting it on something different, they seem to be very interested and really want to help. I’ve actually ended up meeting 2 techs I’ve worked with from Holley and they have become good friends of mine. Very cool people and extremely helpful. Fueltech needs a major upgrade or they just won’t be worth using on anything soon. Haltek is great too, but I’ve gone to Holley on everything.
@@adamr9215 how is fuel tech outdated? The main thing I hear about fuel tech is people don't set them up properly.
@@rushking19 It’s junk and doesn’t do a 1/4 of the stuff that other efi systems do. The sensors are junk and most of them aren’t working when you get the kit, and the parts it works with are very limited. Had it come out in 1995, it would have been great. Now, it’s just a waste of money.
Or... Stop messing with methanol until they've maxed out on 100 octane, which they haven't. I bet they could go faster on a well tuned carb and 100 octane than they have with the poor methanol tuning.
Get or build a crankcase evacuation kit that goes into the exhaust. A bought kit comes with a check valve that prevents exhaust pressure from possibly going back into the engine.
The plumbing runs from evacuation kit on the exhaust to outlet of catch can, inlet of catch can to crankcase.
If you decided fuel injection, fuel tech has one for $1000, only thing you would need is injectors, throttle body, fuel pump etc.(Ike probably has a car that could be a donor, or he could hit the actions again! )
1:07 "Removing weight from our driver" I imagine the conversation goes something like this. "Ok what if we just removed some organs, like the duplicates?"
Tuning a Mustang for a buddy switching to Methanol we had to change the injectors to Double the size to make it run right being Turbocharged also….🤟🏻🇺🇸
Great show nice change of pace. Been watching since first video n you guys keep getting better
Bill in Fort Wayne Indiana
Omg this thing as fast as some of cars out there. Didn't even sink in till now.
From doing launches on the drive way of your parents house to doing high sevens at the track wow!
I actually watched that whole ad-read, you guys are on a roll with the content atm!
You guys are an Awesome Trio!
Thank you!
There are so many issues with the methanol, draining, oil changes, maintenance, carb/jetting issues, metal corrosion. Why don't y'all just run avgas or an ethanol free/avgas blend. You would free up so much of your valuable time putzing with all the finicky stuff and do what y'all do so well, Tweak and just go fast! Plus gasoline is far more energy dense than methanol. Gasoline has about 18,400 BTU/pound), methanol is about 9,500 BTU/pound. Thanks for the great channel, been watching for a long time. I thank God I was able to watch y'all durimg my 2 extended hospital stays back a few years ago during covid.
Awseome video guys i always love seeing the drag rail out. I think it`s about time you put that halteck ecu on it as i don`t think your going to get much more out of it with the carburettor on there. I know it will be a lot of work to do that but it will make turing much easier. Keep up the good work see you in the next one dudes 👍😊
With methanol, you need the super richness to get your mix right, but it also cools the cylinder. Too lean and it's super easy to preignition.
I suggest an EFI setup, and a small intercooler. Much easier to tune with a laptop and wideband, than drillbits and sniff tests.
Glad to see everyone got home safe.
On that pwk carburetor,it has a power jet circuit built in already. The problem is it’s not metered. I tap the hole on mine to accept the pwk slow jet and screw the brass plug back in the top. It sticks down in there for enough to draw fuel out once your close to mid/ full throttle where the turbo needs the extra fuel. This way you can add fuel where you need it to get your best e.t. Possible without having to large of a main that’ll bog the engine down. Try it, you can always remove it and also add from 31-55 slow jet or larger if needed. Good luck
Really enjoy seeing this project improve over time
Sprint car racers (and many drag racers) use a device called a weather station to measure the air quality in terms of temperature, humidity and barometric pressure. It then calculates a metric called "density altitude", measured in feet, which is used to gauge the general quality of the air as it relates to oxygen content for the purpose of engine tuning. The lower the density altitude, the more you need to richen your engine tuneup. Your program would likely benefit from one of these weather stations.
This bad boy needs a holley setup and a trip to KSR and let him have at it lol. But in all seriousness, i have wondered for years how something like this could work out and it makes me so happy to see you guys baging away. I know its hard sometimes, but keep at it!
Hey guys you're on the right path with the jet! Always remember methanol uses double what gasoline uses! Yes it was hot but methanol is a natural intercooler! I think you could stand to use a way bigger carb or go to EFI with an injector going to each cylinder!
I love seeing the truck again. I remember when it sat in the background back in the og videos.
That’s freaking awesome guys . Love the Chanel I would love to see more on the c10 build John
You 3 guys = full on supercharger build straight up like roadkill haha nothing but love for you guys
you need some test rollers so you can tune at the shop instead of waiting for track time, but sounds awesome looks awesome! love your videos
And an O2 sensor...
80 mpg is pretty awesome for a lawnmower on the drag strip. Nice job guys. I think your ready to move up to a 1340 Harley Davidson engine. . I can't wait for your next step of evolution into power sports.
You guys deserve more views, ya did great nice truck!!!
Love all of your videos. Always entertaining.
Please just email Anderson over at Fuel Tech. They love putting fuel injection on corky little projects. Ive seen fuel tech on single cylinder monsters, to 16 cylinder boat engines, and everything between. If they knew what yall did to get kids into motorsports, they'd help the channel for sure. It would make for some awesome videos and exposure to. Ive been watching since day 1, you guys are awesome. Me and my sons built a Yerf Dog Spiderbox buggy together. We painted, powdercoated, and ordered everything new from Go Power Sports. They absolutely love that thing. Funny part is, one wasn't even born, and the other was just an infant when I started watching Ya'll. Thanks for the good times and fun memories, yall are great role models to kids.
-Bud
The C10 sounds great John!
Need to keep a note book on Temps and humidity and jet size that help alot.
Also I can't remember from. The initial build video if this thing has cvt trans or no trans but I think a set of shiftable gears would help this thing a ton it just sou.ds like it flat lines and stops pulling half way
Love you guys and your kid friendly show. Ever thought about puttin the quadziki motor, or one of your other street bike engines on the rail?
Here is an idea for you on the rail, go with a dry sump oil system with oil jets in the crankcase from an electric oil pump. Since it is a small engine a transfer pump should work. Using two smaller turbos, one for each cylinder with dual carbs with independent intakes treating each cylinder as it’s own engine. Also go with an automotive coils on each plug using a crank sensor eliminating flywheel ignition and making it hotter.
That little dragster brings me back to what they call. Slingshot for the man is all the way in the back. He sits on a differential and just hangs on and points it straight ahead and hangs on again. It's just drag racing
Can't wait to see ya'll at Busco Beach!
Love all you guys thanks for the great videos 😊
Excessive blow by could be caused by leaking crankshaft seal. The big block Vanguard crankcase typically operates at a vacuum - if there is small hole it will pull in air and seep very little oil to exterior, which causes blow-by CFM to double or triple. I'm not familiar with Predator 670 engines but guessing they also operate at a vacuum.
I know you guys are working on going to fuel injection eventually on the rail, but have you considered going from a large bore Mikuni style single throat carb to something more like a Weber or Dellorto carb? I know you guys like the flat slide carbs, but It would appear you've got a combination of a off idle flat spot and a metering capability / flow problem across the rpm range. Going to a carb design with a booster pump and/or multiple smaller throats would give you a higher signal response in your venturis potentially causing better throttle response under load. Heck, you might even consider going to a Holley - Weber design with progressive linkage? most of those are in the 36/38mm throat size, come with a booster pump, and a power circuit. Just a thought.
John your truck is awesome and looks great I wouldn't want to break it either and the dragster did good with all this heat we been having great video !
Thanks!
Ike, I noticed about 1" of separation between the top of your helmet and the roll cage. If you ever end up upside down in that thing, there is a chance you will get a neck injury. IIRC, NHRA requires 3" min. It might behoove you guys to add a little more distance in that area.
I just found y’all’s channel a couple days ago I didn’t realize y’all were so close to me. I’m in Eden. That’s too cool. 😂
Drag racers tend to use Lectron carbs, they have a design that will self adjust to temp and altitude.
Most two strokes have to be leaned out on hot days, though that's Octane fuel.
You need a vent for your oil catch tank. Currently, your Gatorade bottle is restricting flow by not being vented. Also, configure crankcase catch tank below crankcase exit level. Take one or two teeth off driven axle sprocket, add one or two teeth to drive sprocket. It "sounds" like your rpms and spped are topping out and flat-lining 70-80% down the track.
Being a drag racer myself this is my favorite build, Needs more stall, need to get the 60' quicker, up the stall till it spins the tires then back off lol. Sounds like it is reaching top speed too early, more gear? hard to tell with that type of transmission. but you should be hitting top speed going through the traps
Hope you guys can find some sort of fuel injection for the rail, that would solve a lot of issues. Glad to see you putting the cars back in Cars and Cameras though. I would like to see more of your car projects run in the future.
If you get really big on the main jet, check the seat in the float valve dosent become smaller than the main jet, you can suck the bowl dry otherwise. Also the choke on those carbs just opens up an enrichment port, want more fuel? Pull the choke button!
Great video guys, welcome to the struggles of drag racing. Keep after it, you'll get it sorted out.
Take a notebook with you, keep track of the temp, humidity, and the jets you’re running. Whenever you pull up to a track just compare notes and put the closets jetting to your notes you have. That will give y’all a great head start so you can experiment from a semi close ballpark number.
Hey John it's a beautiful truck I watched you build it in your old videos you caught first second and third gear I understand you don't want to rock it never spin stock tires though they never grabbed right good lock with it
And damn John that truck looks amazing
Love your guys content!!!!! Been subbed for a couple years at least now, and really enjoy watching you guys build and run crazy stuff!!!
If I may offer a suggestion (that I'm sure you have heard before), I would look into lapel mic's. Your voice audio would be so much clearer, and we wouldn't struggle through the echo in the house or the motors screaming by at the track 😛. If not, It'll be finnnnneeeeeeee :-)
Take care yall! Appreciate all your hard work!
John, I love that truck. I had one like it growing up. You’re driving class.
Thanks 👍
Lord, that 670 sounds AMAZING!
You guys would really benefit from a dynamometer in your shop. You could make your own for not too much money. It would help greatly tuning your projects. Also, have you thought about getting rid of the magnetos and going with automotive style ignition systems and using magnetic pickups? Done properly, you could adjust timing for max power. You could make required bracketry on your cnc plasma easy enough.
you have no intercooler, so your intake temps rose too.
richening it up cooled the charge.
making the charge air denser.
you guys should add a 2nd fuel spray solenoid switch to pedal that sprays more fuel when you press like a nitro's fogger does.
Add a connection between air intake and carb with a cup inside cup. Inner cup has dry ice, outer cup has airflow around cold inner cup.
That's a beautiful truck Jon 💯👏
i am wondering if you high rpm miss is from your coils. you might not be getting hot enough spark at high revs and blowing out the spark and not getting a good burn.
Nice that you had the truck out for the first time.
The truck is sick bro sounds good
I feel like you guys have grown a bit frustrated with the drag rail as it's been so difficult to get fast, but I thank you for the effort as it's one of my favorite projects that you've done. Don't do it if it's not fun, but so long as you enjoy working on it, I'll enjoy watching the videos.
They need to step back and stop messing with methanol and even e-85 until they can get it tuned and running consistently on 100 octane.
@CarsandCameras i told y'all along time ago to get a 2barrel blow through holly carb setup. The carb before the turbo is eating your seals and causing problems
You need data acquisition. A Mychron 4 660 will log RPM , head temps and exhaust temps at idle and at the finish line. Use the temps to jet the car.A Mychron will also show the Torque converter shift point.
I love this rail. I can't wait to see the new one rip down the track.
You guys keep learning new things all the time which is a good thing. You will get this all figured out.
Nitromethane and methanol always reminds me of running garden hoses as injectors lol it's a crazy amount of fuel consumption needed to maintain combustion along with cooling.
It was 91 at 4 am in chandler Arizona today, and it was kinda nice lol. I will say humidity changes everything
love the build
Find an old 83 Honda gl660 or gl500 or the cx version. The 500 puts out 50 hp and the 650 quite a bit more. These “twisted twins” have a rear facing output shaft that would couple up nicely to a rear differential.
I agree with Tim.
Take notes of jets, humidity, temp, track temp, sky’s and your time slip.