I would love to go for the amateur-level bike but even your beginner level bike would be an upgrade from what I'm riding now but I'm on a pension! I still love to ride and have that grin on my face as Alex said despite heaving my 18kg of hybrid bike up the hills! Oh and the other thing, my family thinks I'd kill myself on a better bike going too fast down hills!
"Upper" beginner level absolutely. Very nice and solid bikes (I have Tiagra and Deore on mine). Those bikes have everything I need, they are fun to ride AND I can leave them parked on the street without worrying where I live.
Amateur would be a nice to have (no electronic shifting though, as the price hike with the new 105 is just insane imho) but as I only have space for 1 bike that's also used for commuting and shopping, I'm kinda riding something below the beginner stuff here 🤣 With the punishment it takes carrying stuff, or things bumping into it (so no carbon for me either), or sometimes being parked outside in the rain for hours.. I'm really not gonna use anything expensive. Not to mention that over here even the mid range bike would probably be a one way bike, and you'll be walking or taking public transport home after work because the bike found itself a new owner.. I'd love to get a more advanced bike, but the way it is at the moment it's just not practical unfortunately. But, at least the way it's trickling down in about 20 yrs I'll be riding current gen dura-ace I guess 😁
Amateur for me. What would I be doing with a pro-level bike? And unlike Gruff, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I own such an expensive thing.
For everyone watching, do remember that at the moment, 105 still comes in 11 speed mechanical for less than half the price of its new Di2 option. The true groupset of the people lives on!
I ordered the "old" mechanical 105 this week, was finally back in stock. Long live the groupset of the people. My hope is that the new Tiagra (which must come at some point) is simply a rebranded 11-speed 105.
Not only that, but the additional 2 additional gear ratios available off a 12 cassette (versus 11) are of absolutely trivial value to 99% of riders. The extra ratios overlap hugely with those you already have and an imperceptible change to your cadence or the incline has just the same effect. Am I wrong?🤷♂️
@King Of Crunk Im pretty sure all the sram shimano 10 speed works together and i get my chain for 20 bucks. My 10 speed sram chain works w all my shimano stuff. I wax it too and ive found it can be much easier and less hassle then messy oil. Yeah I just checked all that stuff is cross compatible ( old 10 speed sram red for instance). Comes up as bargains some of it.
105, at least when it was mechanical shifting and not £2,000 a groupset, was undoubtedly the best option. Providing you an experience not far from the pros, for a price not far from the beginners. At the end of the day I think what you really have to remember is that what makes a bike fun to ride is only slightly influenced by the chain rings, the cassette, the brakes, the shifters, the handlebars, the wheels or anything else. 90% of the enjoyment, comes from the soul of the bike. The more I ride my bike (105) the more I like riding it - and that's not because of the components, after all they're deteriorating with time not improving. No it's because of the memories. All the brutal climbs and unnerving descents. All the sprint finishes to beat my mate to the cafe, or just to beat my own time on the lunch-time loop. That bike started off as purely a machine. A lump of carbon, steel, and otherwise. But now it's more. I enjoy riding it because of everywhere I've been with it, and how well I've come to know it. Because she bears scars just like I do, and often from the same source.
@@henrikwille8135 well that's what I mean. For 800 you could buy an entire beginner bike. 105 has never been cheap, but it's almost double the price these days
I think, and I mean this wholeheartedly, "KEEP PHIL ON GCN!"; how many of us are pros? Yeah, thought so, therefore, it's nice to have that perspective! I imagine that the brands won't like it, but, and hear me out, WE DON'T NEED THOSE GAINS BECAUSE I WORK FULL TIME AND DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO EVEN TRY AND BE MORE THAN AMATEUR BECAUSE OF LIFE, FAMILY, FRIENDS, FEEDING MYSELF, CRAPPING, MORE FEEDING, SHOPPING FOR OUR OWN FOOD, READING, DOING OTHER PAST-TIME THINGS. Bravo Phil, you legend.
Loved this video! Alex has excellent chemistry with guest presenters and appears respectful while having fun with it "he's like a baby bird leaving the nest." I really appreciated Gruff's inclusion of Phil - using Phil's name, turning and looking at Phil when he was speaking. In my experience as a beginner cyclist, there can be a tendency to overlook those who aren't well-established in the sport. Props to Gruff for being top notch kind. And I have to go with Dura Ace on my next bike...I mean I couldn't rest knowing there was a better option and I didn't go for it. :D
Top comment this! I got a good feeling out of this whole video, and I think GCN has been great (at least) lately about bringing in total novices. It's more than just being respectful: they've been invited into the FUN of it all. My heart melted a little when Manon made a second video with Harriet because "You guys all liked her so much". I hope there will be more stuff with Phil, Harriet - and Griff(Gruff?) for that matter!
Nice to see Gruff on the channel. I remember being part of the massive crowds that cheered him on when the Tour of Britain came to his hometown last year and who was on the front - Gruff. Top guy and I hope to see more of him on the channel!
I totally agree with your conclusion here: a mid-level groupset is probably the best option for most non-racing enthusiasts who like a nice ride and who can afford it. But it's worth noting the other message: The entry-level bike is still a good bike. That alloy Canyon with Tiagra or Sora is probably nearly as good or maybe even better than many high-end bicycles from the early 2000's. You can totally ride such a bike and perform well and have a nice time.
I enjoyed this video on so many levels. Informative regarding the bikes but mainly, as an old friend of Phil’s, getting to see his old music video that I’d forgotten about and how much his accent has changed since he moved ‘down south’. I’ve got plenty of embarrassing stories for the next video if the GCN producers require it. Top stuff!
I went for a bike ride with my dog in a backpack and found them filming this next to my car. Was nice to say hi to Alex and Gruff who I thought was just watching lol.
Loved Phill's presentation of the Dura-Ace! I upgraded from my beginner bike earlier this year to carbon and electronic shifting and wow, what a difference! Instantly faster and an absolute joy to ride!
@@ax1066a-ghd2 I rode the same distances/routes that I usually ride, instantly gained 2-3 mph to my average speed. I couldn't believe it, lots of efficiencies gained. Most notably, the hub and the weight of the bike. My typical rides are 35-100 miles. As for a new bike being uncomfortable to ride, I would recommend a professional bike fit before you buy a new bike, then buy your new bike based on your measurements and then follow back up with your fitter once you have the bike. I've gotten 2 fittings since I started cycling and they've also made a big difference. Cheers, enjoy your rides!
@@ax1066a-ghd2 for me.. the massive point of mid level is enjoyable.. a litte bit faster yes, price & performance wise for further year to come. No need pro level, not on it level so.
@@ax1066a-ghd2 just chill mate.. the important thing about cycling is self improving rather than upgrade a bike.. you saw the pro level is faster even with beginner bike.. dont stop & keep pedaling for fun.. cheers..
@RifleEyez if you earn $30 an hour that 30 seconds is worth 50c. So you can justify a $1000 spend as saving money if you're going to spend at least 2000 hours riding 😀 my commute to work is about an hour each way so I just need to commute 5 days a week for about 4 years to make my money back 😂
Gruff showed very clearly where I should invest to get faster: In strength and core training to hold a more aerodynamic position and not wiggle around on the bike. Concerning the groupsets, I guess the savings to Dura Ace was mostly down to the deeper wheels. Can you make a video about DI2 cross compatibility? Can you for example use the Ultegra levers with the 105 mechs to get the nice buttons on the hoods?
Phil’s experience for the Ace seems to be summed up in his opening comment about it Being worth so so much- it’s so hard to truly use and trust something like that when it’s such a significant investment- for so many of us fear is a blessing and a treat- not a regular investment in our lives, so holding back on such an expensive bike makes complete sense
One of the best uploads for a while from GCN. A realistic evaluation of three levels of bikes. While I would love the DuraAce, I honestly could not see the point as I am 55 and rarely ever feel the need to go so fast anymore. However, as Phil pointed out, there IS a difference and IMHO even going from a not even entry level road bike to a Claris is noticeable as to how much more fun and comfortable a ride can be. If anyone has a free large lightweight bike with a functioning DuraAce going free though, I am sure I could find a space for it in my heart.
Great video, and once again you've proven that unless you're a pro, whether road or crit, you don't need Dura Ace or even Ultegra. The 105 group set has always been a workhorse and it's plenty sweet for the vast majority of cyclists. I happened to get a great deal on a close out Scott Solace with an Ultegra group set, but since then I've replaced the front derailleur with 105 and will keep doing that as more parts degrade over time.
Super video - a perfect combo of Alex, Phil and Griff. I’d happily watch them again in another test/challenge. And yes, as a confirmed aspiring amateur, I’d pick the 105 amateur bike.
Nice content guys, as ever. However, I know Shimano are a 'friend' of the channel but other brands are available. It would be nice to see SRAM or Campy represented more often.
Well it is not often in the cycling industry that something is objective, but I would argue that shimano just makes the best groupsets objectively. Sram wireless technology is nice but engineering wise is lacks so much behind and Campag always feels special and has some of the flair of an Italian sports car but at the end of the day Shimano just has the best product
@@KILLTHEREDDITOR last time I looked, the difference was 1300 vs 1500 €. Well worth it in my opinion for a bottom bracket standard that wasn't engineering by an intern and gearing and sprocket ratios that actually make sense
Fun vid, but surely people see straight through this "X groupset = X speed" nonsense. Body position (e.g. the beginner bike has the bars right up to the top/super high stack and being an endurance bike/not pro fitted probably a wider bar too) has the majority of effect on speed and secondly then frame/wheels (for aero). Just a total false equivalency to simply correlate groupset Tier to speed (since what groupset has little to no actual impact on a short uncomplicated point to point timed run).
Bought my first roadbike 4 years ago. Shimano Sora gears and no-name brakes. Done at least 15000km on that groupset. Only changed cassette and big rings once. I’m sure ultegra ore dura ace are better, but don’t rule sora out 👍
mine was a second hand claris Nashiki. commuted on that bike for 3 years. the bearings are pretty shot in it now (snow and salt take its toll) and upgraded to a jamis renegade frameset with sram rival 1x hydro and a mullet wheelset (700c front and 650b in back). going 1x was the best decision i made, since i want as little fuss on the road as possible.
Such a fun video! I watched this with my wife (she rides a "beginner" bike, where as I ride an "amateur" bike) and we truly enjoyed the reminder that having fun on the bike is the important thing, no matter what bike you have. :D
I am not a pro but I prefer dura ace. I just love how responsive shifting feels. I have an old bicycle with rim brakes and dura ace components and like to ride it more than my bike with 105 and disk brakes.
For many nonracers, Tiagra is the best choice, I think, but it seems to get overlooked. It's sturdy and works well, and 2x10 provides plenty of gears to choose from.
For me personally, Ultegra mechanical is the choice. Having said that, I am jealous of the wife's shiny Ultegra Di2 setup! Hard to beat the value for money 105 provides though!
On my bikes I run combinations of all sorts of groupsets with parts that either replaced, upgraded, or even downgraded the original ones, depending on the goals and budget. For example, I have a road bike with 11sp 105 and Tiagra wheels, another with 9sp Ultegra and 105 BB (due to not finding a Ultegra octalink on italian thread when the original Ultegra wore out), two ciclocross bikes with Sora 9sp mixed with Tiagra and Novatec hubs, Deore XT (newest manufactured on 9sp, which is still compatible with STI levers) derailleurs, etc. Not counting the wheels, the only "full groupset" bikes I have are a road bike with 2x11 105(mentioned above), one monstecross (people call them "adventure bikes" or "wide gravel bikes" today) with 3x9 Sora, and a vintage road bike modernized with 2x8 Claris. That's just 3 out of 12. My point is that you don't need to be fixated on a specific groupset; cut costs where you can, upgrade as you break or wear out components, be realistic about what you want to achieve and have fun all the way doing it. If you learn mechanical skills along the way, then more glory to you.
Fantastic video! As a beginner, this is just what I wanted to see and know. Sadly, I will have to start saving up for the 105 now, but it’s great to see that it really will make a difference on the time but more importantly the enjoyment of the ride and ease of riding.
If you're a beginner, you don't need this Di2 stuff! Learn on a mechanical groupset; it will be 95% of the experience and it'll be way cheaper to boot. I started on Sora, went to Tiagra (10 speed), then upgraded to a decent carbon bike with mechanical 105. I'd still have that bike if I hadn't had to move back to the other side of the globe. I now have a "good" carbon cyclocross bike (Felt F3X) with newish Ultegra componentry. Is there a noticeable difference? To me, an undoubtedly amateur rider... From 105 to Ultegra? Nah. If you find it secondhand on a good bike and the price is right, sure, save some grams I guess, but it's worth keeping in mind that higher-end, lighter components tend to be a bit more fragile. My ultegra set is very picky, and my 105 was mostly solid. My Tiagra felt like I could kick it in the face and never break it. 105 used to be a great base, as you got an 11 speed setup that was close to Ultegra weight and close enough to Dura-Ace that it wouldn't matter unless you were pro, semi-pro, or getting to those levels. Great to have , but not essential, especially given the price. It feels like Tiagra is going to take that role going forward. I digress. If you're new to road biking...find a decent bike THAT FITS YOU. You don't need Di2. You don't even need mechanical 105. A properly set-up bike, even with Sora, will be fast. Hell, come to Central Park. You'll see people on Sora who will wreck 90% of people riding 105. The engine is way more important than the drivetrain. Tldr; find a bike that you like and fits you. You don't need to spend $4000 on a bike to fall in love, or to feel adequate, no matter what GCN or any other channel tries to convince you.
You really don’t need di2! Mechanical is great. Cheaper to buy and maintain. 10 speed Tiagra is a fantastic groupset or previous gen 11 speed 105 (still being produced), if you feel Sora is too low end
@@ItsJustaDustStorm Lots of great thoughts here. I have been cycling for about 2.5 years now, going maybe twice a month. Sometimes more and sometimes less. I got used hybrid mountain/commuter bike for $350 and it needed a lot of care with several flats and gearing that didn't like how I was changing gear under load. I was lucky enough to pick up a almost new mountain e-bike about a year ago with disc brakes and I was amazed at how much smoother and easier that made riding; while the motor is nice it's the brakes and gears making the big difference. As I ride on paved trailed, I'm looking to finally pick up a road bike instead. I had a friend take me to a nice shop and show me a $2,200 road bike with 105. I also found a used bike with Sora on it for $1,000. I plan to go with the Sora now and in a few years I'll find a chance to try out the 105 and see what the difference is to me. As I'm in my 40s and cycling is for fun and not for competition, I'm sometimes will to pay a bit more than I should for comfort and ease while biking. Based on the video, there are some ways that 105 is just a smoother and easier experience. The upgrade to the 105 is 90% not about going faster for me, it's about the better experience.
@@willday990 if you could upgrade to mechanical 105 fairly economically...that might be worth it. Someday. If you really want to push times. But if you're riding at your current rate...man, just keep the Sora. You're enjoying yourself on a good bike for a grand. Don't let people try to push you into upgrading when it's not necessary for you.
I’ve got Ultegra mechanical on my road bike, but I recently built a gravel bike with a current Claris 2x8 group set. Honestly, I’m surprised at how well it changes gear. It’s really good - smooth and fast.
On the MTB side the differences are even less between groupsets. Shimano Deore 12 speed shifts nearly as well as XTR 12 speed it's just heavier and doesn't get the double upshift unless you install an XT or XTR shifter. Brakes are also not included with the MTB groupsets so you can end up with weird mixes like my enduro bike which has Deore rear mech and cassette, SLX chain, SLX chainring (or absolute black sometimes), XT cranks and XT 4 piston brakes with XT icetech rotors. And the shimano MTB brakes from SLX to XTR all use servo wave
It would have been nice to see the different groupsets on the same frame, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who bought a bike with mid-range components with the idea that I might upgrade as the original components wore out.
Yes. Using the same frame would also eliminate other variables, such as rider position. It looked as if the "beginner" bike had the most relaxed rider position (greater stack height, etc.), which might account for a large percentage of any speed difference. There is no way to know what effect each group set actually had on rider speed in this test.
Fantastic video! So interesting and helpful to hear Phil and Gruff's comments on the bikes/groupsets. And well done to all three boys on those efforts! 🤝🏼
I switch regularly between 3x8 speed Shimano 2300 on a Decathlon Triban 3, and a 1x Ultegra Di2/Deore XT 11 speed setup on an ultra expensive carbon fibre e-road bike. By far the biggest difference is in the feel of the shifters. And Gryff mentioned it - but assigning the up/down to the buttons on the hoods is just wonderful. But Strava doesn’t lie. The Triban has been upgraded with an ancient set of Mavic Heliums which I scored for £100, and despite me having a £2k set of DT Swiss 1400s with 240 hubs on the e-bike, the Triban is faster, lighter and a razor blade through corners. I love both bikes. Just ride whatever you have.
This was a fantastic video - I would love to see more like this showing the difference between beginner/ amateur/ pro maybe at different disciplines/ routes to show it’s all achievable and inspiring! It’s also amazing to learn more about the pros and beginners you feature! Great work GCN
@@gcn Would love to see "real world" progression for him. Choosing a new bike? Choosing/riding with a club? Preparing for an event? Zwifting through the winter? Figuring out cleaning and maintenance tasks. 👍🏻👍🏻
Not only a comparison of equipment but, of riders as well. Lived this format! So great justification by each rider o which package they would purchase.
For the thousands of pounds between these groupsets (crazy UK pricing!!) for everyone upto serious amateurs it would seem the best investment you can make is becoming a fitter, stronger, more skilled rider. If £is limited start spending on HRM, Strava or training peaks great clothing (for all seasons) and nutrition. And ride. Ride! Difference between Sora and dura-ace is less than 30s over 24 minutes. You'll make up many, many minutes in this test by being the best version of yourself.
Moving up to Ultegra 12 speed Di2 from 105, there absolutely is a difference between the 2 groupsets - & it is substantial. I could never go back down to mechanical 105 & I can’t see a reason why anyone would want to. The electronic groupset just shifts perfectly, every single time without fail. The buttons on the hoods are such a great feature, I feel much safer on the bike not having to take my hands off the handlebars in order to change screens on my head unit. Yes electronic groupsets are expensive, hobbies can be expensive. But for me the use I get out of the groupset & the benefit cycling has for my health & wellbeing makes it well worth the investment!
Thank you for the objective test. It is very insightful. I teach Biostatistics at an Ivy League university (fka Kings College😊). According to the measurements displayed at 19:36, my calculations show no significant differences (>1%) between bike upgrades for each type of rider except for beginner bicyclists upgrading from Sora to 105. This finding will be a more apparent answer because no Sora-equipped bicycle comes with low rolling resistance tires, Look cleats, or even clipless pedals and shoes. So the money is worth spending between Sora and 105 for beginners and upgrading pedals, tires and wheels first. I am closer to the beginner end of the spectrum and did ride a 105-equipped Orbea Euskatel team frame for 15 years and recently upgraded to Evil Chamois Hagar with GRX Di2 2x; now going for Elite G45 wheels. This channel is one of my favorites. Keep producing great content. 🎉
Glad I watched this video! I'm new to cycling, getting race ready, training hard etc. I've been using a rental bike 3/4 times a week while deciding on a bike, and I've been so focused on getting a Dura ace groupset. Now I'm thinking of downgrading to the Ultegra di2, and saving a bit of cash.
great video.. just goes to show how expensive it is to 'chase seconds' and unless your a pro racer there's really no point in spending so much for so little gains. the 105 will put that smile on your face. Funny though, cause I have ultegra 8000 mechanical, and at my age it's probably my last real bike. Thankfully, it's a great bike so I do not feel held back by it. But, we all know that I will be trying to justify to my partner why I will be needing a new bike with 105 electronic shifting and disk brakes at some point soon!!!
I have raced 105 group sets for years. They are fantastic quality at an affordable price. Even the Sora sets are good but 9 speed restricts gearing choice
@@rgbplumbinghilton I've not been at it long. Started with a Claris set up, jumped to Ultegra and was under whelmed to be honest. great bike, all carbon but changed the crank to 165mm and cassette to 34 tooth and so used 105 simply because it's way good enough. cheaper too. There's so much hype around the kit, but I grew out of it, mostly!
@@madmick9205 bikes have come a long way since my first one in 1985!! All group sets are pretty good now. Indexed and fairly smooth. Saving weight costs a fortune. A cheap weight saver is to ride with one bottle instead of 2. That saves nearly a kilo. £2000 extra on gears saves you half of that 😳
@@rgbplumbinghilton absolutely, plus, I could probably save quite a few kilos by drinking less beer 🍺. In fact, truth be told by your reckoning, I could save about £20,000 by losing the waste line. Sad, but true:)
Just the video I wanted you to make. Right on point. My family and I have theee road bikes, two with 105 and one with sram red all 10 speed. 105 is the best bang for your buck. Love your work.
There's a pair of used Vittoria Corsa Controls at my house now, but I'm still on my Maxxis Relix tires because I want to see if I can beat my PB in an upcoming event without using cotton-casing tires, though I'm now on a better BB (not ceramic BTW). Both models are 25 mm wide. If people still suffer up climbs even on 50/34 and 11-34, imagine how much slower they'd be if they use my 12-25 (my chainrings are 50/34, so it's the equivalent of climbing with 52/36 and 11-30).
I love my hydro brakes now that I went to deore from entry level tektros. Spending a whole month and bunch of money trying to get a good bleed on those tektros was the biggest pain in the neck I've had with cycling thus far.
The 11 speed Shimano road disc brakes are great (and the 105 12 speed ones pretty much on par). The servo wave shifters on the 12 speed Ultegra and DuraAce group sets are phenomenal.
Wonderful video and a great job by all three of the boys. I think the choices at the end confirmed what I have just discovered fairly recently after buying my first bike with electronic shifting (11 speed Ultegra Di2). Electric shifting is to die for. I never thought I'd say that. But I ride in an area with a lot of undulating roads where I'm having to shift a lot. Being able to make those shifts with a little tap of my finger...No man or woman has experienced greater joy! ❤️
Agreed. I did the same and will never go back. I have 2 sets of wheels with different gears, and electric shifting has a big benefit there, as a wheelswap is just a couple of clicks, instead of having to faff about with cable tension to get the shifting as good as can be. Swap wheel, enter setup, 3 clicks and done.
Eye opener.. thank you mate.. now the course is improving self performance wise with at least 105.. promise will not go for dura ace because that not match with my age.. superb mate..
I am a 65 year old beginner. I have been riding a city bike but getting ready for my first road bike. You certainly ruled out Sora and Dura Ace for me. Trying to get a better understanding of the difference that a beginner would find between 105 mechanical, 105 DI2, and Ultegra DI2 along with the rest of the bike matching the equivalent group set. Thanks
Hi Jeffery. Thanks for getting in contact. Great to hear you're getting out on the bike. It all comes down to budget in the end, perhaps head to your local bike shop and see if you can test them all out? 🤔
Late to the party but 105 mech in many reviews saying they have the same feel as ultegra and dura ace 11speed. The biggest difference is price and then weight. 105 di2 and ultegra di2 same deal, price and then weight. But 105 di2 almost cost 2x more than 105 11 speed mech. If the beginner can fit it on their budget, I think di2 is worth it because it removes the guess work on when to use the 2x chainrings by sequential shifting. You just shift up and down and the computer automatically shifts the chainrings for you.
I love Sora (got an old 9 speed shifter on my gravel bike) but let's face it: it's literally twice as heavy as DuraAce. I mean, at this point I'm thinking they're making it this heavy on purpose just to make people avoid it. Or to put things into perspective, let's say you get a top tier 7kg bike with DuraAce. Replace the groupset with Sora and BAM! You now have a sub-mediocre road bike weighing in at a hefty 9.5kg. That's entry-level Decathlon bikes (no offence to Decathlon, at least they're an honest brand).
Have To say Gruff would fit into GCN well was able to talk about the bike and explain it well to the general public felt at home in front of the camera And Phil !!!
Very well presented video! I'd choose the mid level amateur bike... and I recently did. The results were as expected. Just purchased a Pinarello Prince with Ultegra 12spd di2. I purchased it specifically because I wanted electronic shifting. At my amateur level Dura Ace makes no valuable difference to me. Going from mechanical Ultegra on my 2017 Specialized Roubaix that I absolutely love, to the electronic 2022 Pinarello Prince is like going from carbureted to fuel injection back in the 80's. You wonder why it hasn't been this way the whole time... My Prince while being more aero is heavier than my Roubaix even with the same set of carbon wheels. I don't know that the 12 gears makes a difference over 11, but the difference of electronic vs. mechanical is so significant it is almost incomprehensible. With the constantly rolling terrain that I ride, I do a lot of shifting. Strava has indicated a few seconds difference on all the local segments...I don't loose as much momentum / speed between shifts becasues of how precise and quick the new Shimano Di2 is relatively to mechanical. I still soft pedal between gears, but not as much as I did with mechanical. Thanks Shimano for an amazing Ultegra electronic group set!!!
More content with Phil pls. I am so close to him regarding age and fitness. Yes, your videos are all funny and educating, but i think Phil (and me) are representing a much larger part of the population...... well, except the music-video part.... I just coverted my Stevens X5 to a Gravelbike with Sora/Deore
As I thought - it's diminishing returns at the top end of the groupset range, so unless you are a pro and need every second, or you have money to burn then 105 gives you 99% of what you need. Which is great news because I can't even afford Ultegra these days. Looks like I'll be "upgrading" my 14 year old Ultegra bike with a 105 bike.
Recently picked up a 2020 Felt Broam 60 (entry-level gravel bike with a Sora/Claris 2x8 group set) for some adventure riding and to be my new winter commuter. The two bikes I've been riding for a few years now both have the same "generation" of 2x10 group set components, with full Ultegra 6700 on one and a mix of 105 5700/DA 7900 on the other. Though I do notice the bigger jumps between gears a bit on the 8spd bike, the shifting performance is rock solid. Being sort of the mechanic for my riding group, I've had the opportunity to try a variety of group sets from a pristine DA 7700 through Ultegra 8000 (mechanical and Di2 versions) to SRAM AXS. And as far as shifting performance, the newer Sora/Claris group on my bike feels closer to the 8000-series Ultegra than the 6700. I got the Broam with intentions to pull off the cheap drivetrain and throw on a 1x11 or even 1x12, and I'm still planning to, but the current set gives me confidence that I can get through the winter without issue so I can take my time getting the new setup that I'm looking for.
Chapeau team. you both did a great effort. Even though i didn`t enter the event you blitz my best time by minutes! Always a savage climb. Great to meet you both and managed to get myself in the video at the finish line. Great video.
Go to a short distance triathlon and you are going to see a lot of beginner to amateur riders on pro bikes. Was so much fun to overtake quite a few people on their expensive TT bikes on my (well, also expensive but technically inferior) Brompton.
Job well done gentlemen. Very enjoyable. The fastest 23:06 I have viewed in a while. FWIW I'm upgrading the 105 mechanical group set on my 2020 Domane SL5 to SRAM Rival eTap AXS after doing much research on the SRAM groups vs. Shimano.
I hope Shimano will still make mechanical versions of their 105 groupsets. 105 is supposed to be the people’s GS because it’s affordable and easily serviceable. Now it’s like its higher tiered cousins with its complicated 12-speed Di2 shifting. It’s now also expensive. So it’s no longer the people’s gear. And we don’t want to be relegated to Tiaga or Sora.
Tiagra is the new people's GS now. Solid, dependable and with hydraulic disc brakes. I have the older version but if I'm on the market for a new gs, I'll take the new Tiagra.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Which of these bikes would you choose: beginner, amateur or pro?
I would love to go for the amateur-level bike but even your beginner level bike would be an upgrade from what I'm riding now but I'm on a pension! I still love to ride and have that grin on my face as Alex said despite heaving my 18kg of hybrid bike up the hills! Oh and the other thing, my family thinks I'd kill myself on a better bike going too fast down hills!
I have the Canyon Endurace, but the 105 AL RB version. Wouldn’t change it. It’s perfect.
"Upper" beginner level absolutely. Very nice and solid bikes (I have Tiagra and Deore on mine). Those bikes have everything I need, they are fun to ride AND I can leave them parked on the street without worrying where I live.
Amateur would be a nice to have (no electronic shifting though, as the price hike with the new 105 is just insane imho) but as I only have space for 1 bike that's also used for commuting and shopping, I'm kinda riding something below the beginner stuff here 🤣
With the punishment it takes carrying stuff, or things bumping into it (so no carbon for me either), or sometimes being parked outside in the rain for hours.. I'm really not gonna use anything expensive.
Not to mention that over here even the mid range bike would probably be a one way bike, and you'll be walking or taking public transport home after work because the bike found itself a new owner..
I'd love to get a more advanced bike, but the way it is at the moment it's just not practical unfortunately.
But, at least the way it's trickling down in about 20 yrs I'll be riding current gen dura-ace I guess 😁
Amateur for me. What would I be doing with a pro-level bike? And unlike Gruff, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night knowing I own such an expensive thing.
Let's please have more of Phil. He makes this stuff feel real and relatable.
I agree!!! Really enjoy see normal people, theire opinion and feeling
100% agree. Seeing a normal rider is great for us amateurs
Phil is best
Yes, and Phil makes music videos too ;)
Yes!
More Phil please. GCN’s Presenter of the People.
MOAR PHIL
Phil Phil Phil Phil Phil! Absolute legend! Get him back for more!
He looks massively unfit, those 16 years since his YT debut took a toll:p
@@TheSteinbitt Yeah , he's the peoples choice of people to go with the peoples choice 105
For everyone watching, do remember that at the moment, 105 still comes in 11 speed mechanical for less than half the price of its new Di2 option. The true groupset of the people lives on!
i like my second hand sram rival 1 tho
I ordered the "old" mechanical 105 this week, was finally back in stock. Long live the groupset of the people. My hope is that the new Tiagra (which must come at some point) is simply a rebranded 11-speed 105.
Not only that, but the additional 2 additional gear ratios available off a 12 cassette (versus 11) are of absolutely trivial value to 99% of riders. The extra ratios overlap hugely with those you already have and an imperceptible change to your cadence or the incline has just the same effect. Am I wrong?🤷♂️
Give me sram red 10 speed for the same price I’m happy
@King Of Crunk Im pretty sure all the sram shimano 10 speed works together and i get my chain for 20 bucks. My 10 speed sram chain works w all my shimano stuff. I wax it too and ive found it can be much easier and less hassle then messy oil. Yeah I just checked all that stuff is cross compatible ( old 10 speed sram red for instance). Comes up as bargains some of it.
105, at least when it was mechanical shifting and not £2,000 a groupset, was undoubtedly the best option. Providing you an experience not far from the pros, for a price not far from the beginners.
At the end of the day I think what you really have to remember is that what makes a bike fun to ride is only slightly influenced by the chain rings, the cassette, the brakes, the shifters, the handlebars, the wheels or anything else. 90% of the enjoyment, comes from the soul of the bike. The more I ride my bike (105) the more I like riding it - and that's not because of the components, after all they're deteriorating with time not improving. No it's because of the memories. All the brutal climbs and unnerving descents. All the sprint finishes to beat my mate to the cafe, or just to beat my own time on the lunch-time loop.
That bike started off as purely a machine. A lump of carbon, steel, and otherwise. But now it's more. I enjoy riding it because of everywhere I've been with it, and how well I've come to know it. Because she bears scars just like I do, and often from the same source.
When did 105 become £2k?? I'm out 😂
You feel what I feel! I enjoy the ride whenever wherever
The new Di2 105 is more like 1800, the old mechanical is more like 1000
@@henrikwille8135 well that's what I mean. For 800 you could buy an entire beginner bike. 105 has never been cheap, but it's almost double the price these days
Same for me, well written. I've only grown to love my 2020 Domane SL5 105 even more!
I think, and I mean this wholeheartedly, "KEEP PHIL ON GCN!"; how many of us are pros? Yeah, thought so, therefore, it's nice to have that perspective! I imagine that the brands won't like it, but, and hear me out, WE DON'T NEED THOSE GAINS BECAUSE I WORK FULL TIME AND DON'T HAVE THE TIME TO EVEN TRY AND BE MORE THAN AMATEUR BECAUSE OF LIFE, FAMILY, FRIENDS, FEEDING MYSELF, CRAPPING, MORE FEEDING, SHOPPING FOR OUR OWN FOOD, READING, DOING OTHER PAST-TIME THINGS.
Bravo Phil, you legend.
MOAR PHIL
Agree with you mate, you don’t need to shout 😅
Loved this video! Alex has excellent chemistry with guest presenters and appears respectful while having fun with it "he's like a baby bird leaving the nest." I really appreciated Gruff's inclusion of Phil - using Phil's name, turning and looking at Phil when he was speaking. In my experience as a beginner cyclist, there can be a tendency to overlook those who aren't well-established in the sport. Props to Gruff for being top notch kind. And I have to go with Dura Ace on my next bike...I mean I couldn't rest knowing there was a better option and I didn't go for it. :D
Top comment this! I got a good feeling out of this whole video, and I think GCN has been great (at least) lately about bringing in total novices. It's more than just being respectful: they've been invited into the FUN of it all. My heart melted a little when Manon made a second video with Harriet because "You guys all liked her so much". I hope there will be more stuff with Phil, Harriet - and Griff(Gruff?) for that matter!
Agreed, Phil could be a brain surgeon, don't judge a book by it's cover. And we all have different priorities in life.
Gruff is a legend and just as kind and respectful off the camera. A real gent. It would be fantastic to see more of him over on GCN
@@hogroamer260 Please don't let Phil do brain surgery on us!!
Phil's comment that Dura Ace is twice the cost of 105, but it doesn't provide twice the enjoyment is all that needs to be said, really!
“Now I know how Oli feels” LOL 😅
🤣
Cracked me up. Phil slaying.
14:45 🤣
Oh but the shame of being overtaken by an ebike 😥
Savage!! Poor Ollie…
Nice to see Gruff on the channel. I remember being part of the massive crowds that cheered him on when the Tour of Britain came to his hometown last year and who was on the front - Gruff. Top guy and I hope to see more of him on the channel!
We'd love to have him back!
Ollie seems to be THE protagonist of all GCN shows regardless of he's showing his face in them or not.
It's called success.
It's called charisma
Everybody loves Ollie.
Because he takes cycling WAY too seriously
I think it is a case of picking on the people you love.
I totally agree with your conclusion here: a mid-level groupset is probably the best option for most non-racing enthusiasts who like a nice ride and who can afford it. But it's worth noting the other message: The entry-level bike is still a good bike. That alloy Canyon with Tiagra or Sora is probably nearly as good or maybe even better than many high-end bicycles from the early 2000's. You can totally ride such a bike and perform well and have a nice time.
I actually use 105 di2 and I race, I think till you have a electric groupset you’re ready to race
Phil and Gruff were both awesome. I hope to see both in the future.
We hope to get both of them in more videos too!
I enjoyed this video on so many levels. Informative regarding the bikes but mainly, as an old friend of Phil’s, getting to see his old music video that I’d forgotten about and how much his accent has changed since he moved ‘down south’. I’ve got plenty of embarrassing stories for the next video if the GCN producers require it. Top stuff!
Yes please Paul! Bring it on.
I went for a bike ride with my dog in a backpack and found them filming this next to my car. Was nice to say hi to Alex and Gruff who I thought was just watching lol.
Loved Phill's presentation of the Dura-Ace! I upgraded from my beginner bike earlier this year to carbon and electronic shifting and wow, what a difference! Instantly faster and an absolute joy to ride!
@@ax1066a-ghd2 I rode the same distances/routes that I usually ride, instantly gained 2-3 mph to my average speed. I couldn't believe it, lots of efficiencies gained. Most notably, the hub and the weight of the bike. My typical rides are 35-100 miles. As for a new bike being uncomfortable to ride, I would recommend a professional bike fit before you buy a new bike, then buy your new bike based on your measurements and then follow back up with your fitter once you have the bike. I've gotten 2 fittings since I started cycling and they've also made a big difference. Cheers, enjoy your rides!
@@ax1066a-ghd2 for me.. the massive point of mid level is enjoyable.. a litte bit faster yes, price & performance wise for further year to come. No need pro level, not on it level so.
@@ax1066a-ghd2 just chill mate.. the important thing about cycling is self improving rather than upgrade a bike.. you saw the pro level is faster even with beginner bike.. dont stop & keep pedaling for fun.. cheers..
@RifleEyez if you earn $30 an hour that 30 seconds is worth 50c. So you can justify a $1000 spend as saving money if you're going to spend at least 2000 hours riding 😀 my commute to work is about an hour each way so I just need to commute 5 days a week for about 4 years to make my money back 😂
And here i am with my shimano claris.. loving it
Gruff showed very clearly where I should invest to get faster: In strength and core training to hold a more aerodynamic position and not wiggle around on the bike. Concerning the groupsets, I guess the savings to Dura Ace was mostly down to the deeper wheels. Can you make a video about DI2 cross compatibility? Can you for example use the Ultegra levers with the 105 mechs to get the nice buttons on the hoods?
Phil’s experience for the Ace seems to be summed up in his opening comment about it
Being worth so so much- it’s so hard to truly use and trust something like that when it’s such a significant investment- for so many of us fear is a blessing and a treat- not a regular investment in our lives, so holding back on such an expensive bike makes complete sense
One of the best uploads for a while from GCN. A realistic evaluation of three levels of bikes. While I would love the DuraAce, I honestly could not see the point as I am 55 and rarely ever feel the need to go so fast anymore. However, as Phil pointed out, there IS a difference and IMHO even going from a not even entry level road bike to a Claris is noticeable as to how much more fun and comfortable a ride can be. If anyone has a free large lightweight bike with a functioning DuraAce going free though, I am sure I could find a space for it in my heart.
Now I'm sticking with my Sora GS.💪🚲
And as it is compatible with alivio rear mechs you can fit an 11-36t cassette. Smile going up hill.
Ditto
Great video, and once again you've proven that unless you're a pro, whether road or crit, you don't need Dura Ace or even Ultegra. The 105 group set has always been a workhorse and it's plenty sweet for the vast majority of cyclists. I happened to get a great deal on a close out Scott Solace with an Ultegra group set, but since then I've replaced the front derailleur with 105 and will keep doing that as more parts degrade over time.
If one has no intention to use aftermarket parts on one's groupset, 105 R7000 is indeed very sufficient.
Super video - a perfect combo of Alex, Phil and Griff. I’d happily watch them again in another test/challenge. And yes, as a confirmed aspiring amateur, I’d pick the 105 amateur bike.
Phil was brilliant on this video seemed a complete natural on camera, would love to see him on more videos 😊
I really enjoyed Phil. Thanks a lot for representing.
I think this is my favorite GCN video. Fun and makes me feel good about my 105.
One of the things I'm looking forward to most about my beginner bike is the day I replace my 1x beginner groupset with a solid 105 or higher.
Nice content guys, as ever. However, I know Shimano are a 'friend' of the channel but other brands are available. It would be nice to see SRAM or Campy represented more often.
Its sponsored content, Sram need to come up with some coin first.
Well it is not often in the cycling industry that something is objective, but I would argue that shimano just makes the best groupsets objectively. Sram wireless technology is nice but engineering wise is lacks so much behind and Campag always feels special and has some of the flair of an Italian sports car but at the end of the day Shimano just has the best product
@@MS-bw7yt 105 di2 is also expensive as shit compared to something like rival etap
@@KILLTHEREDDITOR last time I looked, the difference was 1300 vs 1500 €. Well worth it in my opinion for a bottom bracket standard that wasn't engineering by an intern and gearing and sprocket ratios that actually make sense
And with Sram you are stuck with dot fluid for your brakes. Wanna bleed your brakes once an year? No thanks. Leave dot fluid for cars where it belongs
Really liked Phil in the video, seemed good on camera and he was excited by mid range equipment which most of us buy.
Fun vid, but surely people see straight through this "X groupset = X speed" nonsense.
Body position (e.g. the beginner bike has the bars right up to the top/super high stack and being an endurance bike/not pro fitted probably a wider bar too) has the majority of effect on speed and secondly then frame/wheels (for aero). Just a total false equivalency to simply correlate groupset Tier to speed (since what groupset has little to no actual impact on a short uncomplicated point to point timed run).
That's why we used different bikes. It put the groupsets in context
Bought my first roadbike 4 years ago. Shimano Sora gears and no-name brakes. Done at least 15000km on that groupset. Only changed cassette and big rings once. I’m sure ultegra ore dura ace are better, but don’t rule sora out 👍
mine was a second hand claris Nashiki. commuted on that bike for 3 years. the bearings are pretty shot in it now (snow and salt take its toll) and upgraded to a jamis renegade frameset with sram rival 1x hydro and a mullet wheelset (700c front and 650b in back). going 1x was the best decision i made, since i want as little fuss on the road as possible.
Or Tiagra..
Such a fun video! I watched this with my wife (she rides a "beginner" bike, where as I ride an "amateur" bike) and we truly enjoyed the reminder that having fun on the bike is the important thing, no matter what bike you have. :D
Well said Chris!
I am not a pro but I prefer dura ace. I just love how responsive shifting feels. I have an old bicycle with rim brakes and dura ace components and like to ride it more than my bike with 105 and disk brakes.
I have a 10 year old alloy bike with ultegra 10speed it's perfect and I love it.
For many nonracers, Tiagra is the best choice, I think, but it seems to get overlooked. It's sturdy and works well, and 2x10 provides plenty of gears to choose from.
I second this.
For me personally, Ultegra mechanical is the choice. Having said that, I am jealous of the wife's shiny Ultegra Di2 setup! Hard to beat the value for money 105 provides though!
On my bikes I run combinations of all sorts of groupsets with parts that either replaced, upgraded, or even downgraded the original ones, depending on the goals and budget. For example, I have a road bike with 11sp 105 and Tiagra wheels, another with 9sp Ultegra and 105 BB (due to not finding a Ultegra octalink on italian thread when the original Ultegra wore out), two ciclocross bikes with Sora 9sp mixed with Tiagra and Novatec hubs, Deore XT (newest manufactured on 9sp, which is still compatible with STI levers) derailleurs, etc. Not counting the wheels, the only "full groupset" bikes I have are a road bike with 2x11 105(mentioned above), one monstecross (people call them "adventure bikes" or "wide gravel bikes" today) with 3x9 Sora, and a vintage road bike modernized with 2x8 Claris. That's just 3 out of 12. My point is that you don't need to be fixated on a specific groupset; cut costs where you can, upgrade as you break or wear out components, be realistic about what you want to achieve and have fun all the way doing it. If you learn mechanical skills along the way, then more glory to you.
Phil is the man! let's be honest 98% of us are like Phil or Harriet
Need to bring Phil back more often. He is my level of rider and I appreciate his input. real stuff!
This is just a long-winded 105 Di2 commercial, disguised as entry/amateur/pro bike comparison...that I still enjoyed watching 🙂
Si, for these videos, showing the ratio between power and speed (w/mph) may give us a good indication of the savings on watts in each bike
Fantastic video! As a beginner, this is just what I wanted to see and know. Sadly, I will have to start saving up for the 105 now, but it’s great to see that it really will make a difference on the time but more importantly the enjoyment of the ride and ease of riding.
Thanks Will, glad you enjoyed it!
If you're a beginner, you don't need this Di2 stuff! Learn on a mechanical groupset; it will be 95% of the experience and it'll be way cheaper to boot.
I started on Sora, went to Tiagra (10 speed), then upgraded to a decent carbon bike with mechanical 105. I'd still have that bike if I hadn't had to move back to the other side of the globe. I now have a "good" carbon cyclocross bike (Felt F3X) with newish Ultegra componentry.
Is there a noticeable difference? To me, an undoubtedly amateur rider...
From 105 to Ultegra? Nah. If you find it secondhand on a good bike and the price is right, sure, save some grams I guess, but it's worth keeping in mind that higher-end, lighter components tend to be a bit more fragile. My ultegra set is very picky, and my 105 was mostly solid. My Tiagra felt like I could kick it in the face and never break it.
105 used to be a great base, as you got an 11 speed setup that was close to Ultegra weight and close enough to Dura-Ace that it wouldn't matter unless you were pro, semi-pro, or getting to those levels. Great to have , but not essential, especially given the price.
It feels like Tiagra is going to take that role going forward.
I digress. If you're new to road biking...find a decent bike THAT FITS YOU. You don't need Di2. You don't even need mechanical 105. A properly set-up bike, even with Sora, will be fast.
Hell, come to Central Park. You'll see people on Sora who will wreck 90% of people riding 105. The engine is way more important than the drivetrain.
Tldr; find a bike that you like and fits you. You don't need to spend $4000 on a bike to fall in love, or to feel adequate, no matter what GCN or any other channel tries to convince you.
You really don’t need di2! Mechanical is great. Cheaper to buy and maintain. 10 speed Tiagra is a fantastic groupset or previous gen 11 speed 105 (still being produced), if you feel Sora is too low end
@@ItsJustaDustStorm Lots of great thoughts here. I have been cycling for about 2.5 years now, going maybe twice a month. Sometimes more and sometimes less. I got used hybrid mountain/commuter bike for $350 and it needed a lot of care with several flats and gearing that didn't like how I was changing gear under load. I was lucky enough to pick up a almost new mountain e-bike about a year ago with disc brakes and I was amazed at how much smoother and easier that made riding; while the motor is nice it's the brakes and gears making the big difference.
As I ride on paved trailed, I'm looking to finally pick up a road bike instead. I had a friend take me to a nice shop and show me a $2,200 road bike with 105. I also found a used bike with Sora on it for $1,000. I plan to go with the Sora now and in a few years I'll find a chance to try out the 105 and see what the difference is to me. As I'm in my 40s and cycling is for fun and not for competition, I'm sometimes will to pay a bit more than I should for comfort and ease while biking. Based on the video, there are some ways that 105 is just a smoother and easier experience. The upgrade to the 105 is 90% not about going faster for me, it's about the better experience.
@@willday990 if you could upgrade to mechanical 105 fairly economically...that might be worth it. Someday. If you really want to push times.
But if you're riding at your current rate...man, just keep the Sora. You're enjoying yourself on a good bike for a grand. Don't let people try to push you into upgrading when it's not necessary for you.
AYO PHIL you made it!! 👌👌
Ha Harriet you're the OG. It's a little terrifying but also amazing to ride those bikes!
Legend
Enjoyable show with 3 good blokes. Loved the girl doing the overtake!
I’ve got Ultegra mechanical on my road bike, but I recently built a gravel bike with a current Claris 2x8 group set. Honestly, I’m surprised at how well it changes gear. It’s really good - smooth and fast.
Pretty much any mechanical groupset shifts nicely when set up right.
Great film and proper realistic comment and message
On the MTB side the differences are even less between groupsets. Shimano Deore 12 speed shifts nearly as well as XTR 12 speed it's just heavier and doesn't get the double upshift unless you install an XT or XTR shifter. Brakes are also not included with the MTB groupsets so you can end up with weird mixes like my enduro bike which has Deore rear mech and cassette, SLX chain, SLX chainring (or absolute black sometimes), XT cranks and XT 4 piston brakes with XT icetech rotors. And the shimano MTB brakes from SLX to XTR all use servo wave
It would have been nice to see the different groupsets on the same frame, as I'm sure I'm not the only one who bought a bike with mid-range components with the idea that I might upgrade as the original components wore out.
Yes. Using the same frame would also eliminate other variables, such as rider position. It looked as if the "beginner" bike had the most relaxed rider position (greater stack height, etc.), which might account for a large percentage of any speed difference. There is no way to know what effect each group set actually had on rider speed in this test.
Indeed. As an experiment it's nonsense. As a fun video showcasing Shimano kit, it's excellent.
Fantastic video! So interesting and helpful to hear Phil and Gruff's comments on the bikes/groupsets. And well done to all three boys on those efforts! 🤝🏼
Another factor for me is the bike light enough to put up on the bike rack on the car roof... Great information thanks Phil.
I switch regularly between 3x8 speed Shimano 2300 on a Decathlon Triban 3, and a 1x Ultegra Di2/Deore XT 11 speed setup on an ultra expensive carbon fibre e-road bike.
By far the biggest difference is in the feel of the shifters. And Gryff mentioned it - but assigning the up/down to the buttons on the hoods is just wonderful.
But Strava doesn’t lie. The Triban has been upgraded with an ancient set of Mavic Heliums which I scored for £100, and despite me having a £2k set of DT Swiss 1400s with 240 hubs on the e-bike, the Triban is faster, lighter and a razor blade through corners.
I love both bikes. Just ride whatever you have.
This was a fantastic video - I would love to see more like this showing the difference between beginner/ amateur/ pro maybe at different disciplines/ routes to show it’s all achievable and inspiring! It’s also amazing to learn more about the pros and beginners you feature! Great work GCN
It may also be cool to see the riders using their own actual bikes and switching them amongst the group!! Would show the potential of our own bikes!!
More Phil please!👏🏻👏🏻
Yes, a natural on camera!
What would you like to see him do next?
@@gcn Would love to see "real world" progression for him. Choosing a new bike? Choosing/riding with a club? Preparing for an event? Zwifting through the winter? Figuring out cleaning and maintenance tasks. 👍🏻👍🏻
Not only a comparison of equipment but, of riders as well. Lived this format! So great justification by each rider o which package they would purchase.
What a great comparison video, with a pro level rider telling his thoughts on a low end group set in a positive light.
For the thousands of pounds between these groupsets (crazy UK pricing!!) for everyone upto serious amateurs it would seem the best investment you can make is becoming a fitter, stronger, more skilled rider. If £is limited start spending on HRM, Strava or training peaks great clothing (for all seasons) and nutrition. And ride. Ride! Difference between Sora and dura-ace is less than 30s over 24 minutes. You'll make up many, many minutes in this test by being the best version of yourself.
After 10k kms, I'm still extreme happy with my 105 groupset on my €750 Specialized Allez
„It’s all in the legs at the end of the day“ - absolutely true. Do many of us have the many to do ourselves a favor for 4k more? Absolutely true, too
Moving up to Ultegra 12 speed Di2 from 105, there absolutely is a difference between the 2 groupsets - & it is substantial.
I could never go back down to mechanical 105 & I can’t see a reason why anyone would want to.
The electronic groupset just shifts perfectly, every single time without fail.
The buttons on the hoods are such a great feature, I feel much safer on the bike not having to take my hands off the handlebars in order to change screens on my head unit.
Yes electronic groupsets are expensive, hobbies can be expensive. But for me the use I get out of the groupset & the benefit cycling has for my health & wellbeing makes it well worth the investment!
So you can see a reason? The price?
Thank you for the objective test. It is very insightful.
I teach Biostatistics at an Ivy League university (fka Kings College😊). According to the measurements displayed at 19:36, my calculations show no significant differences (>1%) between bike upgrades for each type of rider except for beginner bicyclists upgrading from Sora to 105. This finding will be a more apparent answer because no Sora-equipped bicycle comes with low rolling resistance tires, Look cleats, or even clipless pedals and shoes. So the money is worth spending between Sora and 105 for beginners and upgrading pedals, tires and wheels first.
I am closer to the beginner end of the spectrum and did ride a 105-equipped Orbea Euskatel team frame for 15 years and recently upgraded to Evil Chamois Hagar with GRX Di2 2x; now going for Elite G45 wheels. This channel is one of my favorites. Keep producing great content. 🎉
I love this video, and Phil was brilliant! Like Alex and Phil, I'd stick with the 105. It ticks all the boxes and doesn't leave me wanting for more.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Glad I watched this video! I'm new to cycling, getting race ready, training hard etc. I've been using a rental bike 3/4 times a week while deciding on a bike, and I've been so focused on getting a Dura ace groupset. Now I'm thinking of downgrading to the Ultegra di2, and saving a bit of cash.
great video.. just goes to show how expensive it is to 'chase seconds' and unless your a pro racer there's really no point in spending so much for so little gains. the 105 will put that smile on your face. Funny though, cause I have ultegra 8000 mechanical, and at my age it's probably my last real bike. Thankfully, it's a great bike so I do not feel held back by it. But, we all know that I will be trying to justify to my partner why I will be needing a new bike with 105 electronic shifting and disk brakes at some point soon!!!
I have raced 105 group sets for years. They are fantastic quality at an affordable price. Even the Sora sets are good but 9 speed restricts gearing choice
@@rgbplumbinghilton I've not been at it long. Started with a Claris set up, jumped to Ultegra and was under whelmed to be honest. great bike, all carbon but changed the crank to 165mm and cassette to 34 tooth and so used 105 simply because it's way good enough. cheaper too. There's so much hype around the kit, but I grew out of it, mostly!
@@madmick9205 bikes have come a long way since my first one in 1985!! All group sets are pretty good now. Indexed and fairly smooth. Saving weight costs a fortune. A cheap weight saver is to ride with one bottle instead of 2. That saves nearly a kilo. £2000 extra on gears saves you half of that 😳
*you're
@@rgbplumbinghilton absolutely, plus, I could probably save quite a few kilos by drinking less beer 🍺. In fact, truth be told by your reckoning, I could save about £20,000 by losing the waste line. Sad, but true:)
Just the video I wanted you to make. Right on point. My family and I have theee road bikes, two with 105 and one with sram red all 10 speed. 105 is the best bang for your buck. Love your work.
Fantastic vid, very informative and made my girl happy knowing that i wont be remortgaging the house to upgrade my ride !!
Enjoyed this a lot. Nice shout-out by Phill to the Siborg's excellent vids. I'm sticking with mechanicals until my age forces me to go battery assist.
Great video. Agree entirely with the final summation. Amateur bike with 105 D2i would be just fine. Thanks GCN.
Thanks. It's all in the legs and mind in my opinion. It does make it easier with better equipment though.
There's a pair of used Vittoria Corsa Controls at my house now, but I'm still on my Maxxis Relix tires because I want to see if I can beat my PB in an upcoming event without using cotton-casing tires, though I'm now on a better BB (not ceramic BTW). Both models are 25 mm wide.
If people still suffer up climbs even on 50/34 and 11-34, imagine how much slower they'd be if they use my 12-25 (my chainrings are 50/34, so it's the equivalent of climbing with 52/36 and 11-30).
You’re doing great! I’m becoming a big fan of your videos. You’re a great story teller!
Thanks for making videos like this. A lot of „fun amateur“ riders like me get interesting facts about bikes and groupsets. 😊
I love my hydro brakes now that I went to deore from entry level tektros. Spending a whole month and bunch of money trying to get a good bleed on those tektros was the biggest pain in the neck I've had with cycling thus far.
The 11 speed Shimano road disc brakes are great (and the 105 12 speed ones pretty much on par).
The servo wave shifters on the 12 speed Ultegra and DuraAce group sets are phenomenal.
This was helpful as I'm thinking about upgrading my bike right now. Thank you.
Wonderful video and a great job by all three of the boys. I think the choices at the end confirmed what I have just discovered fairly recently after buying my first bike with electronic shifting (11 speed Ultegra Di2). Electric shifting is to die for. I never thought I'd say that. But I ride in an area with a lot of undulating roads where I'm having to shift a lot. Being able to make those shifts with a little tap of my finger...No man or woman has experienced greater joy! ❤️
Agreed.
I did the same and will never go back.
I have 2 sets of wheels with different gears, and electric shifting has a big benefit there, as a wheelswap is just a couple of clicks, instead of having to faff about with cable tension to get the shifting as good as can be.
Swap wheel, enter setup, 3 clicks and done.
@@NemesisRTCW 👍
Shimano claris squad rise up 😅
Eye opener.. thank you mate.. now the course is improving self performance wise with at least 105.. promise will not go for dura ace because that not match with my age.. superb mate..
I am a 65 year old beginner. I have been riding a city bike but getting ready for my first road bike. You certainly ruled out Sora and Dura Ace for me. Trying to get a better understanding of the difference that a beginner would find between 105 mechanical, 105 DI2, and Ultegra DI2 along with the rest of the bike matching the equivalent group set. Thanks
Hi Jeffery. Thanks for getting in contact. Great to hear you're getting out on the bike. It all comes down to budget in the end, perhaps head to your local bike shop and see if you can test them all out? 🤔
Late to the party but 105 mech in many reviews saying they have the same feel as ultegra and dura ace 11speed. The biggest difference is price and then weight. 105 di2 and ultegra di2 same deal, price and then weight. But 105 di2 almost cost 2x more than 105 11 speed mech. If the beginner can fit it on their budget, I think di2 is worth it because it removes the guess work on when to use the 2x chainrings by sequential shifting. You just shift up and down and the computer automatically shifts the chainrings for you.
Been liking all this love GCN is showing Sora groupset 😌👌
We've had a lot of fun with it!
I love Sora (got an old 9 speed shifter on my gravel bike) but let's face it: it's literally twice as heavy as DuraAce. I mean, at this point I'm thinking they're making it this heavy on purpose just to make people avoid it.
Or to put things into perspective, let's say you get a top tier 7kg bike with DuraAce. Replace the groupset with Sora and BAM! You now have a sub-mediocre road bike weighing in at a hefty 9.5kg. That's entry-level Decathlon bikes (no offence to Decathlon, at least they're an honest brand).
Have To say Gruff would fit into GCN well was able to talk about the bike and explain it well to the general public felt at home in front of the camera And Phil !!!
Very well presented video! I'd choose the mid level amateur bike... and I recently did. The results were as expected. Just purchased a Pinarello Prince with Ultegra 12spd di2. I purchased it specifically because I wanted electronic shifting. At my amateur level Dura Ace makes no valuable difference to me. Going from mechanical Ultegra on my 2017 Specialized Roubaix that I absolutely love, to the electronic 2022 Pinarello Prince is like going from carbureted to fuel injection back in the 80's. You wonder why it hasn't been this way the whole time... My Prince while being more aero is heavier than my Roubaix even with the same set of carbon wheels. I don't know that the 12 gears makes a difference over 11, but the difference of electronic vs. mechanical is so significant it is almost incomprehensible. With the constantly rolling terrain that I ride, I do a lot of shifting. Strava has indicated a few seconds difference on all the local segments...I don't loose as much momentum / speed between shifts becasues of how precise and quick the new Shimano Di2 is relatively to mechanical. I still soft pedal between gears, but not as much as I did with mechanical. Thanks Shimano for an amazing Ultegra electronic group set!!!
Good video! However, I would argue that 105 Di2 is no longer 'entry level to serious cycling.' The price is just wrong.
I have the same frame as the Orbea Orca OMX but in Red. Same paint job as the top end. That's one sexy bike and the paint job is sooo nice.
We need more of Phil's content. He represents the common man.
A very useful video guys, thank you very much! Keep up the good work! :)
More content with Phil pls. I am so close to him regarding age and fitness. Yes, your videos are all funny and educating, but i think Phil (and me) are representing a much larger part of the population...... well, except the music-video part.... I just coverted my Stevens X5 to a Gravelbike with Sora/Deore
That was an awesome video and demonstration. Each one of the Riders seemed very authentic also . I really enjoyed that one, thank you GCN
Glad you enjoyed it Travis!
Excellent video. Totally agree that amateur level is the most sensible choice.
phil (beginner) got tired on the 3rd run, if he only did 2 runs, we would see a difference between 105 and dura-ace.
‘Even Ollie has dropped me’…. Now that is a burn. 😅
As I thought - it's diminishing returns at the top end of the groupset range, so unless you are a pro and need every second, or you have money to burn then 105 gives you 99% of what you need. Which is great news because I can't even afford Ultegra these days. Looks like I'll be "upgrading" my 14 year old Ultegra bike with a 105 bike.
There should have been a mechaical 105 or ultegra in the mix. The Di2 105 made to easy of a pick for all of you.
Love the content. Love Phil. 100% relatable.
Glad you enjoyed it, John!
Recently picked up a 2020 Felt Broam 60 (entry-level gravel bike with a Sora/Claris 2x8 group set) for some adventure riding and to be my new winter commuter. The two bikes I've been riding for a few years now both have the same "generation" of 2x10 group set components, with full Ultegra 6700 on one and a mix of 105 5700/DA 7900 on the other. Though I do notice the bigger jumps between gears a bit on the 8spd bike, the shifting performance is rock solid. Being sort of the mechanic for my riding group, I've had the opportunity to try a variety of group sets from a pristine DA 7700 through Ultegra 8000 (mechanical and Di2 versions) to SRAM AXS. And as far as shifting performance, the newer Sora/Claris group on my bike feels closer to the 8000-series Ultegra than the 6700. I got the Broam with intentions to pull off the cheap drivetrain and throw on a 1x11 or even 1x12, and I'm still planning to, but the current set gives me confidence that I can get through the winter without issue so I can take my time getting the new setup that I'm looking for.
Chapeau team. you both did a great effort. Even though i didn`t enter the event you blitz my best time by minutes! Always a savage climb. Great to meet you both and managed to get myself in the video at the finish line. Great video.
Great ride and time with Phil and Gruff, keep it up guys and keep sharing!
Go to a short distance triathlon and you are going to see a lot of beginner to amateur riders on pro bikes. Was so much fun to overtake quite a few people on their expensive TT bikes on my (well, also expensive but technically inferior) Brompton.
Great video comparison and conversation afterwards.
Cool video! Love the challenge
Job well done gentlemen. Very enjoyable. The fastest 23:06 I have viewed in a while. FWIW I'm upgrading the 105 mechanical group set on my 2020 Domane SL5 to SRAM Rival eTap AXS after doing much research on the SRAM groups vs. Shimano.
I hope Shimano will still make mechanical versions of their 105 groupsets. 105 is supposed to be the people’s GS because it’s affordable and easily serviceable. Now it’s like its higher tiered cousins with its complicated 12-speed Di2 shifting. It’s now also expensive. So it’s no longer the people’s gear. And we don’t want to be relegated to Tiaga or Sora.
Tiagra is the new people's GS now. Solid, dependable and with hydraulic disc brakes. I have the older version but if I'm on the market for a new gs, I'll take the new Tiagra.
@@biggertree7063 It's high time for the Tiagra to get features like Shadow RD anytime now.
In a nutshell:
Beginner: “105, it’s a huge improvement!”
Amateur: “105, best bang for the buck!”
Pro: “ 105 is nice, but Dura-Ace because I’m pro”
It is worse than that. "Pro. "Dura-Ace because it looks good and I'm that vain".
"105, best bang for the buck."
LOL. $2K for a mid level groupset is value, is it? Absurd.
Clearly the $400 Sora groupset is the best value here.
@@junkandcrapamen well the best bang for the buck would be the mechanical 105
Sora (or Tiagra) is the New Groupset of the People.
@@junkandcrapamen by saying best bang for the buck, I’m referring to 105 R7000 mechanical here.