I learnt all of these pieces when I was in my 20's and thought they sounded unimpressive. Finally I have heard a master bring them to life. It's time to relearn them again now I know how they should be played. Thanks Ton.
Everyone who says it's too fast, Personal preference. Everyone who says it's Fast because Bach would've played it fast, you may be right, he was known more as a virtuoso Organist in his time than he was a composer, same as Paganini was with violin, so don't get all these arguments going. Bach was great, he still is, and it doesn't matter how fast it's played (Within reason) because it's still amazing music.
I like the first movement of this piece at this breakneck pace, Dear Llemur - it brings out the more lightning Italianesque fantastical elements. As to the second movement, it does not offend me, but, I think the faster staccato-esque emphasis of it does not serve it well. This is Koopman on coffee.
Bach e' gioia assoluta. Nessun strumento musicale riesce ad esprimere questo sentimento meglio dell'organo e Bach e' Quello che l'ha espresso al meglio e se l'organista e' tra i migliori allora gente godetevi questa Musica e siate trasportati al settimo cielo'
Daaaaamn...not sure why people are so set on arguing when it comes to a lovely piece being performed by a talented player. I say well done to all involved
Because zit faced basement dwellers that hide behind the anonymity the internet can afford to be self important demigods simply by slamming their fists on their keyboards when they discover that the world does not revolve around them and their unsubstantiated viewpoints.
I tempi più veloci rispetto alle esecuzioni abituali che si possono ascoltare, ma un' interpretazioni vivaci e d' effetto, gradevoli gli abbellimenti improvvisati. Grande Koopman !!!!
I try not to think it, Dear Sam, as I utterly detest all the heavy metal kitsch so many classical musicians have thought to add to their performances in recent years.
@@goeuldi It's 'kitsch' for sure, Dear Lukas, and indignified at that. That said, I love his playing and simply look the other way, when listening, so I do not have to witness the St. Vitus dance.
I think Mr. Koopman's interpretations of these pieces are fascinating. Many organists learned them as students and still play them as they did "way back when." Koopman has rethought them and this recording shows them in a fresh, unhackneyed light. What a delight!
Hasta cuándo recibiré el éter puro que purifica el espíritu singular. Cuando escucho esta bella composición de magiar arte me estremezco ante la contingente cólera del Altísimo. Pero, es un hecho que sólo me sacude su conmiseración hacia esta pobre criatura.
Präludium und Fuge in C (BWV 553) - Präludium: 0:00 - Fuge: 2:10 Präludium und Fuge in F (BWV 556) - Präludium: 3:20 - Fuge: 4:25 Präludium und Fuge in B-Flat major (BWV 560) - Präludium: 5:46 - Fuge: 7:24
Voor de meeste organisten is dit het eerste stuk van Bach dat zij leren spelen: de eerste Prelude en Fuga in C van de Acht Kleine Praeludian und Fugen. Dat gaat vervolgens in je DNA zitten en draag je het je hele leven met je mee. Geef me een toetsenbord en ik knal het er zo uit.
I reply to all the contributors,especially those who seem to base their comments on two very excellent books. This is not too fast. The acoustic demands it. I know. I have not only read the books,I have played this piece on this organ. How many of you pedants can actually play the organ?
Peter yasin I like your comment so much. I tend to use the same argument when some of the TH-cam armchair critics moan about an opera singer. Can they do anywhere near as we themselves? Of course not. It makes me think of the sad individuals who show off by taking the score to an opera or orchestral concert and fuss over a, to them, wrong note. Pathetic showing off of how clever and intellectual they are. Music is never the same twice. Performers are human and all, thank God, interpret these great works in their own way. Think how dull life would be with the armchair critics in charge. Everything would be the same. No point in ever going to a live performance.
Actually, I did address your original comment. Once you do read those two books you'll realize two important things among many: 1) the tempo paradigms in the baroque period were entirely different than that of of today; your claim was that he is "racing", implying he's playing too fast. 2) you'll also realize that Koopman also plays too slow, as he did misunderstand somethings that Kirnberger wrote in his book. As for the acoustic, I already addressed that. The piece dictates the tempo.
In addition to the Forkel quote, you seem to forget that Bach himself was not known in his day for not being a conformist to the accepted standards of organ playing. In this acoustic, I don't find that the tempo undermines the music at all, since I've developed the ability to hear the notes clearly even at this tempo, and the space the organ is in.. if anything it adds more character to it. Just keep in mind, that writers of that time wrote from their perspectives and stylistic views, not ours.
I agree as well. In addition, Koopman's Magnificat is too fast for my tastes, with Harnoncourt being my preference. OTOH I am blown away by Koopman's Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben. Just perfect.
The fact is that Bach 's music can be played in several tempos, but I have never heard such a tempo - fast or slow - so that it was not a beautiful music. This prelude sounds great in this speed and can be enjoyed well.
The first little Prelude and Fugue of the first bits of "Bach" I learned on starting the organ seriously. I remember the Prelude being easy but the Fugue having some quite tricky 5 part bits in it. I am still fond of the "Easy" Eight. Some argue that the writing is simplistic for Bach especially the ending of the last Fugue of the Eight which does go out with rather a plodding ending.
Very true (in some cases), and therefore you may be surprised to know that Koopman actually sometimes plays much slower than they did in the past. But of course, you'd already know this if you'd have studied Kirnberger's "Die Kunst des Reinen Satzes" and Thieme: "Nouvelle Theorie sur les differens mouvemens de la musique moderne." Once you have studied those two treatises, then I think we can have a much more productive conversation about who's sense of tempo is questionable. :-)
Perhaps you've not read the essays written by Kirnberger such as: "Der Kunst des Reinen Zatzes" where he goes into great detail describing Bach's tempi and their relation to the metre signatures he used, and also as for your remark about BPM, perhaps you've also never heard of a chronometre, and if so, I'll venture to say you've never read Thieme: "Nouvelle Theorie sur les differens mouvemens de la musique moderne" 1801, where he gives us BPM for what Kirnberger himself described. Best regards.
It's neither, actually. It was attributed to Bach, but that is probably incorrect. Most likely it was written by one of Bach's pupils, probably Johann Tobias Krebs or his son Johann Ludwig Krebs.
@kleckselkuchen geht mir genauso, aber ich habe zumindest zwei Manual. Dann gehst noch, ich liebe Bach. Aber so eine Göttin der Instrumente, einfach nur Geil. Auf der Orgel die ich spiele ist von 1739. Hat aber leider im 2. WK gebrannt. Wurde 1948 komplett restauriert. Klingt ganz gut, aber kein Vergleich mit der hier. MEGAGEIL
Must be wonderful to be so clever as some comments on here would indicate. Too fast, not as Bach would have played it, this is wrong, that is wrong. Me, I just enjoyed it. Thank God I am not a pretentious intellectual twat.
@xyzx24 Acht Kleine Praeludien und Fugen ... Johann Sebastian Bach ... Scores available at "IMSPL" (google it). Look for "8 Kleine Präludien und Fugen, BWV 553-560 (Bach, Johann Sebastian)" ;-D
At the risk of sounding a bit presumptuous, I think maestro Koopman "Italianized" Bach a bit too much perhaps. Bach himself admired Vivaldi's and other Italian composer's works of course, but to make his own magnificent works sound "Italian" is a mistake, I think. Nevertheless, this organ has glorious voicing and what a superb façade!
I'm certainly not the expert Mr Koopman is, but at least let the wonderful acoustics of the Martinikerk have a chance. There is no opportunity for the inner melodies of these relatively simple pieces to be heard. It's not a race to see who finishes first.
Bach wrote these pieces...Krebbs wrote these pieces...Bach wrote these pieces...Krebbs wrote these pieces.... I wish the musicologists would make up their minds.
Another person who makes this "race" analogy. Your romantic ideas of melody are alien to the baroque thinking. The piece dictates the tempo, nothing else matters.
Did you ever really address my original comment? I didn't think so. So I'll see you your Kirnberger and Thieme, and reply with Forkel: "...to play properly on the organ the characvter of the ideas which the organist employs must be of primary import. This character is determined by the nature of the instrument, by the place in which it stands, and, lastly, by the object proposed. The full tone of the organ in its nature requires time to die away in the large and free space of a church."
Preludio e fuga n°1 - 4 - 8 dagli 8 piccoli preludi e fuga attribuiti a J.S.Bach .Forse inseriti nell'opera omnia organistica di Bach per dare importanza a queste brevi composizioni.
Agreed. TOO FAST. And Bach left no tempo indications (BPM) so unless RiccardoP1983 is really, really old he doesn't know how fast Bach played... Har har.
Too rushed, and therefore sacrificing balance in both phrasing and articulation. Did this performer have a chemical rush going or something? Where are the quiet ones in the 8 ? Specifically, E-minor, G-minor ? Perhaps he didn't have the time....
+Chris Bond Just finished to a late-40's recording of Schweitzer playing, well, Bach of course. Perhaps it was age and being out of practice with no organ on which to practice all those years in Lambarene, but the tempi were all slow. Perhaps that's why the heart and soul of his playing shines through the awful recording quality.
Preludio e fuga n°1 - 4 - 8 dagli 8 piccoli preludi e fuga attribuiti a J.S.Bach .Forse inseriti nell'opera omnia organistica di Bach per dare importanza a queste brevi composizioni.
I learnt all of these pieces when I was in my 20's and thought they sounded unimpressive. Finally I have heard a master bring them to life. It's time to relearn them again now I know how they should be played. Thanks Ton.
Everyone who says it's too fast, Personal preference. Everyone who says it's Fast because Bach would've played it fast, you may be right, he was known more as a virtuoso Organist in his time than he was a composer, same as Paganini was with violin, so don't get all these arguments going. Bach was great, he still is, and it doesn't matter how fast it's played (Within reason) because it's still amazing music.
I like the first movement of this piece at this breakneck pace, Dear Llemur - it brings out the more lightning Italianesque fantastical elements. As to the second movement, it does not offend me, but, I think the faster staccato-esque emphasis of it does not serve it well.
This is Koopman on coffee.
Bach e' gioia assoluta. Nessun strumento musicale riesce ad esprimere questo sentimento meglio dell'organo e Bach e' Quello che l'ha espresso al meglio e se l'organista e' tra i migliori allora gente godetevi questa Musica e siate trasportati al settimo cielo'
Великолепная музика,только белая раса такое могет,негроиди і монголоиди-не смогли такие інструменти Создать-орган и клавесин!!!
Daaaaamn...not sure why people are so set on arguing when it comes to a lovely piece being performed by a talented player. I say well done to all involved
Because zit faced basement dwellers that hide behind the anonymity the internet can afford to be self important demigods simply by slamming their fists on their keyboards when they discover that the world does not revolve around them and their unsubstantiated viewpoints.
Ashley Shannon I
I tempi più veloci rispetto alle esecuzioni abituali che si possono ascoltare, ma un' interpretazioni vivaci e d' effetto, gradevoli gli abbellimenti improvvisati. Grande Koopman !!!!
This is ton koopman. I can picture him bobbing his head up an down while playing!
Me too!
You feel it's Koopman playing when your head starts uncontrollably moving.
I try not to think it, Dear Sam, as I utterly detest all the heavy metal kitsch so many classical musicians have thought to add to their performances in recent years.
@@beasheerhan4482 Koopman isn't doing "heavy metal kitsch". Not even remotely. He's one of the most hardcore Bach organists I know.
@@goeuldi It's 'kitsch' for sure, Dear Lukas, and indignified at that. That said, I love his playing and simply look the other way, when listening, so I do not have to witness the St. Vitus dance.
I never thought of playing this this fast. Wonderful!
I think Mr. Koopman's interpretations of these pieces are fascinating. Many organists learned them as students and still play them as they did "way back when." Koopman has rethought them and this recording shows them in a fresh, unhackneyed light. What a delight!
Hasta cuándo recibiré el éter puro que purifica el espíritu singular. Cuando escucho esta bella composición de magiar arte me estremezco ante la contingente cólera del Altísimo. Pero, es un hecho que sólo me sacude su conmiseración hacia esta pobre criatura.
Rozkosz dla uszu balsam dla serca super muza i wykonanie pozdrawiam serdecznie miłego dnia życzę b
such lively pieces of music, played by one of the greatest organists!
Fantastic baroque music !!!!! , perfect instrument , perfect organist - super !!!!
Präludium und Fuge in C (BWV 553)
- Präludium: 0:00
- Fuge: 2:10
Präludium und Fuge in F (BWV 556)
- Präludium: 3:20
- Fuge: 4:25
Präludium und Fuge in B-Flat major (BWV 560)
- Präludium: 5:46
- Fuge: 7:24
Una delle canzoni più belle per organo veramente splendido
Beautiful organ!
Voor de meeste organisten is dit het eerste stuk van Bach dat zij leren spelen: de eerste Prelude en Fuga in C van de Acht Kleine Praeludian und Fugen. Dat gaat vervolgens in je DNA zitten en draag je het je hele leven met je mee. Geef me een toetsenbord en ik knal het er zo uit.
I reply to all the contributors,especially those who seem to base their comments on two very excellent books. This is not too fast. The acoustic demands it. I know. I have not only read the books,I have played this piece on this organ. How many of you pedants can actually play the organ?
Peter yasin I like your comment so much. I tend to use the same argument when some of the TH-cam armchair critics moan about an opera singer. Can they do anywhere near as we themselves? Of course not. It makes me think of the sad individuals who show off by taking the score to an opera or orchestral concert and fuss over a, to them, wrong note. Pathetic showing off of how clever and intellectual they are. Music is never the same twice. Performers are human and all, thank God, interpret these great works in their own way. Think how dull life would be with the armchair critics in charge. Everything would be the same. No point in ever going to a live performance.
Actually, I did address your original comment. Once you do read those two books you'll realize two important things among many: 1) the tempo paradigms in the baroque period were entirely different than that of of today; your claim was that he is "racing", implying he's playing too fast. 2) you'll also realize that Koopman also plays too slow, as he did misunderstand somethings that Kirnberger wrote in his book.
As for the acoustic, I already addressed that. The piece dictates the tempo.
This is a most inspiring video. Thank you.
Wow: What a sound, what a performance, what a virtuoso Bravo
In addition to the Forkel quote, you seem to forget that Bach himself was not known in his day for not being a conformist to the accepted standards of organ playing. In this acoustic, I don't find that the tempo undermines the music at all, since I've developed the ability to hear the notes clearly even at this tempo, and the space the organ is in.. if anything it adds more character to it. Just keep in mind, that writers of that time wrote from their perspectives and stylistic views, not ours.
I agree as well. In addition, Koopman's Magnificat is too fast for my tastes, with Harnoncourt being my preference. OTOH I am blown away by Koopman's Herz und Mund und Tat und Leben. Just perfect.
The fact is that Bach 's music can be played in several tempos, but I have never heard such a tempo - fast or slow - so that it was not a beautiful music. This prelude sounds great in this speed and can be enjoyed well.
More than Wonderful!!
Great¡¡¡
Rgds from Mexico
The first little Prelude and Fugue of the first bits of "Bach" I learned on starting the organ seriously. I remember the Prelude being easy but the Fugue having some quite tricky 5 part bits in it. I am still fond of the "Easy" Eight.
Some argue that the writing is simplistic for Bach especially the ending of the last Fugue of the Eight which does go out with rather a plodding ending.
I'm sad to announce that this is not a Bach collection, those are Krebs' works
Великолепная!!! Александр Одессит
Very true (in some cases), and therefore you may be surprised to know that Koopman actually sometimes plays much slower than they did in the past. But of course, you'd already know this if you'd have studied Kirnberger's "Die Kunst des Reinen Satzes" and Thieme: "Nouvelle Theorie sur les differens mouvemens de la musique moderne."
Once you have studied those two treatises, then I think we can have a much more productive conversation about who's sense of tempo is questionable. :-)
Perhaps you've not read the essays written by Kirnberger such as: "Der Kunst des Reinen Zatzes" where he goes into great detail describing Bach's tempi and their relation to the metre signatures he used, and also as for your remark about BPM, perhaps you've also never heard of a chronometre, and if so, I'll venture to say you've never read
Thieme: "Nouvelle Theorie sur les differens mouvemens de la musique moderne" 1801, where he gives us BPM for what Kirnberger himself described. Best regards.
3:20
is this buxtehude, or bach
It's neither, actually. It was attributed to Bach, but that is probably incorrect. Most likely it was written by one of Bach's pupils, probably Johann Tobias Krebs or his son Johann Ludwig Krebs.
@kleckselkuchen
geht mir genauso, aber ich habe zumindest zwei Manual. Dann gehst noch, ich liebe Bach. Aber so eine Göttin der Instrumente, einfach nur Geil. Auf der Orgel die ich spiele ist von 1739. Hat aber leider im 2. WK gebrannt.
Wurde 1948 komplett restauriert. Klingt ganz gut, aber kein Vergleich mit der hier. MEGAGEIL
The piece may well dictate the tempo. What is up for debate here is Mr Koopman's interpretion of what that tempo should be.
magnifique
Can anyone please tell me the name of the first piece? It's so lovely!
Bwv 553
you're right.
Must be wonderful to be so clever as some comments on here would indicate. Too fast, not as Bach would have played it, this is wrong, that is wrong. Me, I just enjoyed it. Thank God I am not a pretentious intellectual twat.
@xyzx24 Acht Kleine Praeludien und Fugen ... Johann Sebastian Bach ... Scores available at "IMSPL" (google it). Look for "8 Kleine Präludien und Fugen, BWV 553-560 (Bach, Johann Sebastian)" ;-D
so ... who composed this piece. It's brilliant.
These are supposed to be J. S. Bach’s works
Excuse that typo, "Bach was not known in his day for being a conformist"
Too fast compared with what? Certainly not compared to tempo in Bach's time...
At the risk of sounding a bit presumptuous, I think maestro Koopman "Italianized" Bach a bit too much perhaps. Bach himself admired Vivaldi's and other Italian composer's works of course, but to make his own magnificent works sound "Italian" is a mistake, I think. Nevertheless, this organ has glorious voicing and what a superb façade!
Nevertheless, it's an absolute DELIGHT to listen to a masterpiece, played by a world-reknown artist :) .
Irineo Romero bach helmuth walcha
Yes indeed, much closer to how Bach himself would have played his works. Greetings Mr. Bucik.
I smell ALRA1975. Dove Sta Il Signore Raganato?
I'm certainly not the expert Mr Koopman is, but at least let the wonderful acoustics of the Martinikerk have a chance. There is no opportunity for the inner melodies of these relatively simple pieces to be heard. It's not a race to see who finishes first.
Koopman is 45rpm in 33rpm world
please what is this piece at : 2:10 ?!!
BWV 553, Fugue
GiantCraft TV Thank you very much !
Bach wrote these pieces...Krebbs wrote these pieces...Bach wrote these pieces...Krebbs wrote these pieces.... I wish the musicologists would make up their minds.
Another person who makes this "race" analogy. Your romantic ideas of melody are alien to the baroque thinking. The piece dictates the tempo, nothing else matters.
PS - the only thing putting me off is the vision of Ton's head bobbing up and down with the music... ;-)
watch leo van doeselaar
watch ulrik mortensen
Did you ever really address my original comment? I didn't think so.
So I'll see you your Kirnberger and Thieme, and reply with Forkel: "...to play properly on the organ the characvter of the ideas which the organist employs must be of primary import. This character is determined by the nature of the instrument, by the place in which it stands, and, lastly, by the object proposed. The full tone of the organ in its nature requires time to die away in the large and free space of a church."
Preludio e fuga n°1 - 4 - 8 dagli 8 piccoli preludi e fuga attribuiti a J.S.Bach .Forse inseriti nell'opera omnia organistica di Bach per dare importanza a queste brevi composizioni.
song?
Darude...
Martinikerk?
Yes. Its the Big Schnitger Organ.
Agreed. TOO FAST. And Bach left no tempo indications (BPM) so unless RiccardoP1983 is really, really old he doesn't know how fast Bach played... Har har.
Too rushed, and therefore sacrificing balance in both phrasing and articulation. Did this performer have a chemical rush going or something? Where are the quiet ones in the 8 ? Specifically, E-minor, G-minor ? Perhaps he didn't have the time....
I believe whoever assembled these preludes and posted them on TH-cam did not include those you mentioned.
Too fast...
What's the hurry? Did his wife tell him dinner was ready?Ruined a very nice prelude. Speed isn't everything!
+Chris Bond Just finished to a late-40's recording of Schweitzer playing, well, Bach of course. Perhaps it was age and being out of practice with no organ on which to practice all those years in Lambarene, but the tempi were all slow. Perhaps that's why the heart and soul of his playing shines through the awful recording quality.
you think this is fast? LOL
Yes, I do.
He took Peter Gabriel a little too seriously when he said "Your supper is waiting for you."
the church gave him only 10 minutes to record this, so he had no other choice then to go soooooooooo fast. He then got a refund for doing it in 9.
The prelude F Major is far too fast, it sounds awful. Shame to the otherwise goood organist.
SirGawain VD prelude in C major
Lousy playing with lousy registration by a lousy organist who plays everything too fast.
Preludio e fuga n°1 - 4 - 8 dagli 8 piccoli preludi e fuga attribuiti a J.S.Bach .Forse inseriti nell'opera omnia organistica di Bach per dare importanza a queste brevi composizioni.