I feel like Samus Returns ironically suffers from a bit of "First Game Syndrome" where it has a lot of great ideas, but lacks the type of polish that can really only be achieved by trial, error, and iteration. Kinda makes sense, too, seeing as it was the first 2D Metroid in like 15 years and trying a new style of gameplay for the series. I always thought it was a fundamentally great game held back by a few poor design choices and a lack of polish and I'm so glad Dread was able to better realize many of Samus Returns' ideas.
Yea. The team at MercurySteam were really trying something with this game. They had great ideas, but maybe they didn't quite figure out how best to make them happen. I'm willing to bet being on the 3DS also cut into how everything played out. The strange touch mechanics and all. It's a fun enough game, but man, like you said, it's great that they learned from this and better executed it in Dread.
Great review! My biggest issue with Samus Returns is that it takes so long to finish. But other than that I enjoy it for what it is. Also I first found your videos last year with your initial Metroid Retrospective. It’s cool to see you circle back to Metroid 😊
The game can take a while for sure. I think I clocked in at about 10 hours total playtime for this review and that's quite a long time for sure. I do like SR it's fun, but it's got it's own problems for sure. I'm glad to have you come back and check it out. I wanted to leave these games for when I hit 1k subs and I got one more in the works for it. I'll get back to Metroid not to long from now. I have the prime games to check out after all.
@@LeonKiske I’m excited for you to review those! I’ve only finished the first Prime game, definitely need to go back and finish the other ones. Prime 1 is very atmospheric and I enjoyed getting lost in it.
@trismatthews7693 I certainly has an atmosphere all it's own. Truly unique in the GameCube library. I could sit and listen to the music with the rain on her visor for a good long while. I appreciate your anticipation for the prime games. I'll have to get to them soon. Prime 4 is just about around the corner, so gotta get caught up. Also. Yea check out the others if you can. They can be hard to find, but worth it if you can get your hands on them.
Ain't that the truth. AM2R is certainly a work of passion. No doubt there. Glad you liked this one, for all it's faults they definitely tried to bring Metroid 2 into the limelight agian.
Holding a controller in one hand with the other on my mouse was not ideal. It lead to more than a few deaths and awkward situations with inputs being dropped and reconnected. It works, but it's janky as hell. I couldn't imagine playing anything more intensive and or something that almost mandates the use of a stylus. Yikes.
One thing I want to correct you on is that this is playable on ANY 3DS model. Old, new, or 2ds. Otherwise great video, I had a lot of issues with the Baby locking like half the power ups in the game making it a moot point to have them IMO and that basic enemies meant just wait for bum rush and WHAMO hit em and give em a one hit KO. Also people hate this game and call it a disappointment (you know who you are) but I thought it was better than AM2R. I did like AM2R more after a couple updates since it made the Omega's less bullshit which is where I had a problem with it. Either way we have both and I like both and think legitimately if we put Samus Returns and AM2R together you'd have the perfect remake. Oh and Samus Returns had the area maps too bloated. lol I keep getting lost trying to go anywhere! 🤣
Somewhere there exists the perfect mix of these games to form the ultimate remake. I should have known about that New 3DS thing. I must have just assumed because it came bundled with the Samus 3DS, which was a "New" model. Should have taken the 2 seconds to double check the actual game cart. Still it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it still has value as a game and it's still fun. If you can get into the rhythm it's sets. Thank you as always for popping in and hanging out some man. Good to see ya again.
@@LeonKiske Hey man it's alright. I can understand the confusion lol My only issue with the people and AM2R was on day 1 of release with SR people were saying not to buy it like nooo we wouldn't have gotten Dread otherwise 😭 But yeah totally wish we could get both games into one and have like the perfect remake
@RetroNerdyGamer I think people were not happy with SR because it was different from what they wanted it to be. The thing with AM2R is because it was made by a fan it felt more "honest" or maybe "traditional" to what long time fans wanted out of a remake of Metroid 2. Like I mentioned in the video, they might have wanted something that rhymed with the GB original, like AM2R does. Instead we got a complete remaining of the game. With added mechanics and a few other, let's say, hiccups. So it felt wrong. Plus the visual style was different and people have there problems with that. People can have their favorites and their opinions, but to flat out call SR bad, because it's not what YOU might have wanted is just wrong. Like you mentioned if not for SR we might not have gotten Dread. And while Dread isn't perfect either I feel like Mercury Steam is trending in the right direction with the series as a whole.e it'd be a shame for them to just stop because some fans got upset with some choices. Eventually we will have to cone to terms with the fact that these games need new hands and new ideas. There will come a day when a Mario or Zelda game no longer has Miyamoto at the helm or even in it's production credits outside of a "created by" mention. If Metroid is to continue we need to be willing to accept some new and interesting directions even if it isn't exactly what we might want.
It would be great if they remake this for the switch or the switch 2. Make it have dread controls/graphics and the fight with Ridley only happens if you beat it on a certain level/time.
I would be behind this 100%. It would be awesome, but it's one of those I'll believe it when I see it, ya know? Anyway thanks for stopping in and spending some time here.
Samus returns ending definitely would have been better if the baby metroid wasnt a power up. Here is a simple solution, make sure the last area is like the original where no enemies except metorids exists, baby metroid blocks other than the final area, if they really wanted the baby to follow you for clean up, make a destructible one way drop/door after the egg room. Have the queen guarantee a full health and ammo restore on defeat so if you dodnt know about ridley you are not screwed, make damn sure the sky is at night even during the ridley fight because thats an iconic set piece for a reason. Yes im keeping the ridley fight despite the lore flaws because 1 its probably the best ridley fight in the series and also the best boss fight until dread one up it several times. Having the baby metroid do something adds character and reason for supers ending and makes a small connection to the little guy who saved you. This simple fix can allow both parties to have something. Those who want clean up and those who liked the ending
This idea works pretty well. I would have been happy with something like that. It's a shame that they decided to go this way and make the baby a "power up." It just felt bad to go back and run that clean-up route. I don't mind the micro backtracking when you get things like power bombs and whatnot, but the baby is just too far. Also, yea, that Ridley fight is awesome. It doesn't really make sense for him to just pop up, but whatever. Sometimes, the "rule of cool" is the right call. Definitely the best boss in the game bar none. Also. Thanks for hanging out and spending some time here.
Well I welcome you back. I don't know just how many you may or may not have missed out on, but there could be a backlog for you if you are interested. Otherwise, thank you for hanging out and being chill as always.
I was watching all of your Metroid vids as you released them, and then after a few Zelda videos you disappeared. I do need to watch the Zelda ones. Keep up the good work.
Why on earth TH-cam didn't tell me about your previous like 10 videos? And only kinda showed me this as i was scrolling through my subscriptions to find something to watch
Hey Lilly. Yea, YT does some dumb things. I got a similar comment from another person,along the lines of "I just dissappeared." Glad YT saw fit to push this video out to everyone.
@LillyP-xs5qe it's all good. Glad there was stuff for ya that is potentially new. Still odd that YT just made me vanish off your feed, but glad to have ya back.
All right, so I've sat down with this all and you've pretty much hit on all the topics I would've brought up for things to look at, between the release console, the setting, especially towards the end, the fact that the game serves as sort of a beta landscape prior to Dread and the controversy of AM2R being chokeslammed by Ninty ninjas before its release. I'll even add in the fact that it deserves additional criticism for things such as Fusion mode being completely locked behind an amiibo, something Nintendo got slapped for, even though they sidestepped it with a seperate 'hard' mode being there. They later learned their lesson with the options that were available at launch for Dread and modes later patched it. All in all, I think it's a lot of learning getting to Dread, in all respects and Samus Returns gets that criticism rightly so. Ultimately, none of that really mattered much to me. To mirror the sentiment of your video right out of the gate: we were eating good in 2017, especially if you were a Metroid 2 fan (it was the first game I owned and beat of the franchise back in the early 90's). Regardless of Ninty's takedown, AM2R still exists freely today and even though it's not the best landscape for it, so does Samus Returns. With later drops on NSO, we were given the original copy of Metroid 2. Overall, this means you have a ton of options at your disposal on how you want to advance on this game. None are perfect, all are their own interpretation and all of them are worth a look in their own right. You don't have to like them all but that's kind of the point - the fact that there are debates about 'which is better' proves that each were notable enough to be good in at least everyone's opinion but not necessarily that which was on top. Congrats on the 1K, btw. I was going to mention that in another vid and haven't got around to going through it yet. Been busy on a move, amongst other things as of late. Hope you keep going for 10K and more.
Thanks for the hype up on the 1k reached and whatnot. I'm hoping to keep this going 10k and beyond. As far as the AM2R stuff goes, when it happened, I think everyone understood that it was an IP thing. For Nintendo and MercurySteam to come out basically, what felt like the next day with this remake ready to go was a huge surprise. It has its faults. I didn't even know about the Fusion difficulty thing, but I guess I'm not surprised. I'm glad they "learned" from that, though. If that's what the story is. I do think this was a trial run for Dread. Work on a project to earn your spot, then go nuts on an original story. Try out some new things for the series as far as mechanics go and then tie it all up to fit the updated story. I do like that as players, we have some options for how to play the game. Like you said, it's on more than a few systems and in a few ways. Plus, with AM2R, we have an additional, albeit unauthorized version to try. We could t ask for a better outcome, really. It doesn't matter what is better. What matters is that we can play them all, or just your favorite. For whatever reason, metroid is a game that needs the most help from its player base/fans. If the game is Metroid in name I'll try it. It might not be the best game, but it's at least something and no dev wants to make a bad game, it's just that the game doesn't land well with its base. That said sometimes they miss the mark. I don't think SR missed the mark as bad as some make it out to. Anyway, thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it. I hope your move goes well and is nice and smooth.
The game can be fun, you just have to get into the groove that it sets up for you. It has a much different approach to combat what with the counter and full direction aim.
This game disappointed me. The melee was way overdone and all the enemies are so squishy without it. Dread did melee way better but i dont know why they insist on a melee at all And yes am2r is the better game
I get where you are coming from. I also didn't care for the counter and how it takes over the game. It is fun to use, though and Dread does it way better you are right about that. Also yea AM2R has a special place in a lot of the player bases hearts. I also like it a bit more than Samus Returns, but this is official so it needs to be talked about, ya know?
@LeonKiske oh no worries I get it. I was impressed with dread after SR3D they really learned from it. One thing I like in this one more tho is the setting and one of my few gripes with dread doesn't exist here. In dread everything beyond the wall is just a black void like but here in this game you actually get a visual of the rocky wall. Um I'm not wording it good but like this game and super there's foreground art beyond the walls that helps with immersion dread usually just does a black void beyond the wall
@Joseph928100 I'm picking up what you are putting down for sure. I do like the background in SR. They put a good amount of effort in that. You are right in that it adds to the immersion.
Coming out of the gate, a bit hot ain't ya? I get not everyone like this game, it certainly has its issues, but not everyone knows of or even cares to jump through the hoops it takes to get AM2R. Especially after the DMCA takedown. But I get it, I like AM2R more than this, but it's still important to talk about and understand.
@@LeonKiske Stock, yes...but...you can actually play both on a modded one. Just don't tell anyone. Ninty oughta really get on the wagon of repurposing SR when Prime 4 comes out on the second Switch, since I'm sure they're targeting it.
I feel like Samus Returns ironically suffers from a bit of "First Game Syndrome" where it has a lot of great ideas, but lacks the type of polish that can really only be achieved by trial, error, and iteration. Kinda makes sense, too, seeing as it was the first 2D Metroid in like 15 years and trying a new style of gameplay for the series.
I always thought it was a fundamentally great game held back by a few poor design choices and a lack of polish and I'm so glad Dread was able to better realize many of Samus Returns' ideas.
Yea. The team at MercurySteam were really trying something with this game. They had great ideas, but maybe they didn't quite figure out how best to make them happen. I'm willing to bet being on the 3DS also cut into how everything played out. The strange touch mechanics and all.
It's a fun enough game, but man, like you said, it's great that they learned from this and better executed it in Dread.
Great review! My biggest issue with Samus Returns is that it takes so long to finish. But other than that I enjoy it for what it is.
Also I first found your videos last year with your initial Metroid Retrospective. It’s cool to see you circle back to Metroid 😊
The game can take a while for sure. I think I clocked in at about 10 hours total playtime for this review and that's quite a long time for sure. I do like SR it's fun, but it's got it's own problems for sure.
I'm glad to have you come back and check it out. I wanted to leave these games for when I hit 1k subs and I got one more in the works for it. I'll get back to Metroid not to long from now. I have the prime games to check out after all.
@@LeonKiske I’m excited for you to review those! I’ve only finished the first Prime game, definitely need to go back and finish the other ones. Prime 1 is very atmospheric and I enjoyed getting lost in it.
@trismatthews7693 I certainly has an atmosphere all it's own. Truly unique in the GameCube library. I could sit and listen to the music with the rain on her visor for a good long while. I appreciate your anticipation for the prime games. I'll have to get to them soon. Prime 4 is just about around the corner, so gotta get caught up.
Also. Yea check out the others if you can. They can be hard to find, but worth it if you can get your hands on them.
Great video Leon! Yeah the fan make of this game is better. It's amazing what real passion brings
Ain't that the truth. AM2R is certainly a work of passion. No doubt there. Glad you liked this one, for all it's faults they definitely tried to bring Metroid 2 into the limelight agian.
Emulating DS games with touch screen functionality is wild when you need to click and move at the same time. MM Starforce 1 comes to mind, and TWEWY
Holding a controller in one hand with the other on my mouse was not ideal. It lead to more than a few deaths and awkward situations with inputs being dropped and reconnected. It works, but it's janky as hell. I couldn't imagine playing anything more intensive and or something that almost mandates the use of a stylus. Yikes.
Another remake!? Let’s see how they hold up!
As always, I appreciate you looking out, my man.
I would buy this game again on Switch, like Kirby Planet Robobot and Zelda A Link Between Worlds.
I would as well. I feel like they could go back and retro fit the game to play more like Dread and that would make this game really shine.
One thing I want to correct you on is that this is playable on ANY 3DS model. Old, new, or 2ds.
Otherwise great video, I had a lot of issues with the Baby locking like half the power ups in the game making it a moot point to have them IMO and that basic enemies meant just wait for bum rush and WHAMO hit em and give em a one hit KO.
Also people hate this game and call it a disappointment (you know who you are) but I thought it was better than AM2R. I did like AM2R more after a couple updates since it made the Omega's less bullshit which is where I had a problem with it. Either way we have both and I like both and think legitimately if we put Samus Returns and AM2R together you'd have the perfect remake.
Oh and Samus Returns had the area maps too bloated. lol I keep getting lost trying to go anywhere!
🤣
Somewhere there exists the perfect mix of these games to form the ultimate remake.
I should have known about that New 3DS thing. I must have just assumed because it came bundled with the Samus 3DS, which was a "New" model. Should have taken the 2 seconds to double check the actual game cart.
Still it might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it still has value as a game and it's still fun. If you can get into the rhythm it's sets.
Thank you as always for popping in and hanging out some man. Good to see ya again.
@@LeonKiske Hey man it's alright. I can understand the confusion lol
My only issue with the people and AM2R was on day 1 of release with SR people were saying not to buy it like nooo we wouldn't have gotten Dread otherwise 😭
But yeah totally wish we could get both games into one and have like the perfect remake
@RetroNerdyGamer I think people were not happy with SR because it was different from what they wanted it to be. The thing with AM2R is because it was made by a fan it felt more "honest" or maybe "traditional" to what long time fans wanted out of a remake of Metroid 2. Like I mentioned in the video, they might have wanted something that rhymed with the GB original, like AM2R does. Instead we got a complete remaining of the game. With added mechanics and a few other, let's say, hiccups. So it felt wrong. Plus the visual style was different and people have there problems with that.
People can have their favorites and their opinions, but to flat out call SR bad, because it's not what YOU might have wanted is just wrong. Like you mentioned if not for SR we might not have gotten Dread. And while Dread isn't perfect either I feel like Mercury Steam is trending in the right direction with the series as a whole.e it'd be a shame for them to just stop because some fans got upset with some choices.
Eventually we will have to cone to terms with the fact that these games need new hands and new ideas. There will come a day when a Mario or Zelda game no longer has Miyamoto at the helm or even in it's production credits outside of a "created by" mention. If Metroid is to continue we need to be willing to accept some new and interesting directions even if it isn't exactly what we might want.
It would be great if they remake this for the switch or the switch 2. Make it have dread controls/graphics and the fight with Ridley only happens if you beat it on a certain level/time.
I would be behind this 100%. It would be awesome, but it's one of those I'll believe it when I see it, ya know?
Anyway thanks for stopping in and spending some time here.
And maybe increasing the sense of isolation and of horror that this remake lost
@@ocdman3910 couldn't hurt. That's for sure
Samus returns ending definitely would have been better if the baby metroid wasnt a power up. Here is a simple solution, make sure the last area is like the original where no enemies except metorids exists, baby metroid blocks other than the final area, if they really wanted the baby to follow you for clean up, make a destructible one way drop/door after the egg room. Have the queen guarantee a full health and ammo restore on defeat so if you dodnt know about ridley you are not screwed, make damn sure the sky is at night even during the ridley fight because thats an iconic set piece for a reason. Yes im keeping the ridley fight despite the lore flaws because 1 its probably the best ridley fight in the series and also the best boss fight until dread one up it several times. Having the baby metroid do something adds character and reason for supers ending and makes a small connection to the little guy who saved you. This simple fix can allow both parties to have something. Those who want clean up and those who liked the ending
This idea works pretty well. I would have been happy with something like that. It's a shame that they decided to go this way and make the baby a "power up." It just felt bad to go back and run that clean-up route. I don't mind the micro backtracking when you get things like power bombs and whatnot, but the baby is just too far.
Also, yea, that Ridley fight is awesome. It doesn't really make sense for him to just pop up, but whatever. Sometimes, the "rule of cool" is the right call. Definitely the best boss in the game bar none.
Also. Thanks for hanging out and spending some time here.
Sir, I missed your videos.
Well I welcome you back. I don't know just how many you may or may not have missed out on, but there could be a backlog for you if you are interested.
Otherwise, thank you for hanging out and being chill as always.
I was watching all of your Metroid vids as you released them, and then after a few Zelda videos you disappeared. I do need to watch the Zelda ones. Keep up the good work.
How odd that I just dipped off your radar like that. Take your time and let me know what you think yea? Good to have ya back on the channel.
Why on earth TH-cam didn't tell me about your previous like 10 videos?
And only kinda showed me this as i was scrolling through my subscriptions to find something to watch
Hey Lilly. Yea, YT does some dumb things. I got a similar comment from another person,along the lines of "I just dissappeared." Glad YT saw fit to push this video out to everyone.
@@LeonKiske I been catching up with the stuff I missed since then, might been watching stuff I already watched, but have double views!
@LillyP-xs5qe it's all good. Glad there was stuff for ya that is potentially new. Still odd that YT just made me vanish off your feed, but glad to have ya back.
@@LeonKiske it messed with the bell thing, maybe tell people about it.
@LillyP-xs5qe that's a solid point. Didn't even occur to me about the bell. Gonna make a note of that for sure.
All right, so I've sat down with this all and you've pretty much hit on all the topics I would've brought up for things to look at, between the release console, the setting, especially towards the end, the fact that the game serves as sort of a beta landscape prior to Dread and the controversy of AM2R being chokeslammed by Ninty ninjas before its release. I'll even add in the fact that it deserves additional criticism for things such as Fusion mode being completely locked behind an amiibo, something Nintendo got slapped for, even though they sidestepped it with a seperate 'hard' mode being there. They later learned their lesson with the options that were available at launch for Dread and modes later patched it. All in all, I think it's a lot of learning getting to Dread, in all respects and Samus Returns gets that criticism rightly so.
Ultimately, none of that really mattered much to me. To mirror the sentiment of your video right out of the gate: we were eating good in 2017, especially if you were a Metroid 2 fan (it was the first game I owned and beat of the franchise back in the early 90's). Regardless of Ninty's takedown, AM2R still exists freely today and even though it's not the best landscape for it, so does Samus Returns. With later drops on NSO, we were given the original copy of Metroid 2. Overall, this means you have a ton of options at your disposal on how you want to advance on this game. None are perfect, all are their own interpretation and all of them are worth a look in their own right. You don't have to like them all but that's kind of the point - the fact that there are debates about 'which is better' proves that each were notable enough to be good in at least everyone's opinion but not necessarily that which was on top.
Congrats on the 1K, btw. I was going to mention that in another vid and haven't got around to going through it yet. Been busy on a move, amongst other things as of late. Hope you keep going for 10K and more.
Thanks for the hype up on the 1k reached and whatnot. I'm hoping to keep this going 10k and beyond.
As far as the AM2R stuff goes, when it happened, I think everyone understood that it was an IP thing. For Nintendo and MercurySteam to come out basically, what felt like the next day with this remake ready to go was a huge surprise.
It has its faults. I didn't even know about the Fusion difficulty thing, but I guess I'm not surprised. I'm glad they "learned" from that, though. If that's what the story is.
I do think this was a trial run for Dread. Work on a project to earn your spot, then go nuts on an original story. Try out some new things for the series as far as mechanics go and then tie it all up to fit the updated story.
I do like that as players, we have some options for how to play the game. Like you said, it's on more than a few systems and in a few ways. Plus, with AM2R, we have an additional, albeit unauthorized version to try. We could t ask for a better outcome, really.
It doesn't matter what is better. What matters is that we can play them all, or just your favorite. For whatever reason, metroid is a game that needs the most help from its player base/fans. If the game is Metroid in name I'll try it. It might not be the best game, but it's at least something and no dev wants to make a bad game, it's just that the game doesn't land well with its base. That said sometimes they miss the mark. I don't think SR missed the mark as bad as some make it out to.
Anyway, thanks for stopping in and sharing your thoughts. I really appreciate it. I hope your move goes well and is nice and smooth.
I have never played this game weirdly enought.
The game can be fun, you just have to get into the groove that it sets up for you. It has a much different approach to combat what with the counter and full direction aim.
This game disappointed me. The melee was way overdone and all the enemies are so squishy without it.
Dread did melee way better but i dont know why they insist on a melee at all
And yes am2r is the better game
I get where you are coming from. I also didn't care for the counter and how it takes over the game. It is fun to use, though and Dread does it way better you are right about that.
Also yea AM2R has a special place in a lot of the player bases hearts. I also like it a bit more than Samus Returns, but this is official so it needs to be talked about, ya know?
@LeonKiske oh no worries I get it. I was impressed with dread after SR3D they really learned from it. One thing I like in this one more tho is the setting and one of my few gripes with dread doesn't exist here. In dread everything beyond the wall is just a black void like but here in this game you actually get a visual of the rocky wall. Um I'm not wording it good but like this game and super there's foreground art beyond the walls that helps with immersion dread usually just does a black void beyond the wall
@Joseph928100 I'm picking up what you are putting down for sure. I do like the background in SR. They put a good amount of effort in that. You are right in that it adds to the immersion.
Why does anyone talk about this utter disappointment when AM2R exists????
Can’t play AM2R on my Switch
Coming out of the gate, a bit hot ain't ya?
I get not everyone like this game, it certainly has its issues, but not everyone knows of or even cares to jump through the hoops it takes to get AM2R. Especially after the DMCA takedown.
But I get it, I like AM2R more than this, but it's still important to talk about and understand.
@KingOppSanti true, but to be fair you can't play this game on the switch...
Easy: 2 cakes.
@@LeonKiske Stock, yes...but...you can actually play both on a modded one. Just don't tell anyone. Ninty oughta really get on the wagon of repurposing SR when Prime 4 comes out on the second Switch, since I'm sure they're targeting it.