Safe Room has one of the best lines of dialogue when Greg mentions “open relationship.” This phrase is an instant trigger for Tom, who associates it with Shiv. Absolutely brilliant threading the needle.
yup. all he wants is to belong and be successful and everyone else just wants an open relationship where they can come and go as they please. poor guy haha.
I love him giving Kendall that reality check. Just an outsider perspective: you’ve lost a couple of times. Your dad never does. Why would I ever choose your team?
One of the perfect examples of when these characters briefly reveal they aren’t totally incompetent. They’re all kinda f*** ups, and their wealth allows them to be, but they spend a ton of time ass- grabbing.
@@PayMeNoMind Tom has never really been incompetent, though. I mean, having Greg handle destroying the documents sure, but other than that he's always done his job well and managed to stay in Logan's good graces. He plays the game well, he's just still in a position where he has to sacrifice a lot to stay in it, which makes him look weak, but if anything is just more proof of his persistence.
Loved that exchange, other people saying no to joining Kendall didn't really effect him too much, but you can tell the way Tom said it messed with his ego.
@@johnr797 well this is the thing I like, the unspoken side of things. Tom can be drastically incompetent in his love life. And the Supreme Court stuff. So on and so forth. But he's still heading ATN. The guy seems to have strong approval at the small glimpses of the meetings he's in. And he can talk well onstage which is demonstrated a couple times. It's brushed over but in the background it seems Tom is wholly capabale of doing his job and doing it well. He is an ass kissing person who struggles to get out from underneath Shiv, but that is looking to change some.
Such a brilliant character. I can explicitly remember getting halfway through season 1 and finally realizing that WE (the audience) are the ONLY people who truly know who Tom is. Greg and Shiv give us access to his two halves, and we slowly put together the true man is somewhere in the middle of how he interacts with these two individuals
that brings to light the truly amazing performance of Matthew, he has to play like 5 different roles in one character, as he is who he is depending on who has in front of him
@@maxwedewferg He really has the range. The amount of times he's gone from being acting completely normal one moment to saying/doing something apeshit the next.
I first discovered and became a fan of Matthew McFayden years ago on the MI-5 series as I was always searching the internet for British productions. He left early in the show...he met Keely Hawes there and they both left. I kept searching for him. I loved him in Little Dorrit. He is an acting total package.
If Tom or Greg were short nobody would like them. Seriously imagine Greg's awkward stuttering mess of a character in Romans body. His character is an accurate portrayal of how far being tall and white will get you in corporate America.
@@investor.z I imagined that and, yes, I absolutely agree. You probably already know Culkin was originally cast as Greg, which would’ve changed everything else on down the line.
I think Logan likes Tom because he is not "to the manor born". Logan has contempt for his own children because they have not had to struggle the way he did. So, he coddled them - and then resents them for being coddled. Tom is not that way. While he has married into wealth, he still has more connection to the real world than his own children do. At the end of Season 3, we also see that Tom is now a "killer" of Shiv. And we know Logan respects a killer. Tom has done what's necessary to get ahead.
Yeah, but I think the greatest lesson Shiv, Roman, and Kendall could learn from this is that they don't have to seek validation from their father and that they must strengthen their relationship as siblings and learn to trust each other instead of going against each other for the sake of their father and this final will bring them together closer to each other while Logan will have nobody except Tom and Greg who wouldn't care about him one bit and are just here for the money.
@@jlasf Kendall is my favorite character and I would really love to see him get away from his toxic father and the company and seek therapy and by the end of this season he’s really not into it anymore which could be a sign hopefully
@@Ok-df1uz I think you're forgetting that Shiv convinced him to move away from offering Tom as a blood sacrifice pretty easily. He was never enthused about how everyone threw Tom and Greg under the bus. Tom gained his trust over time, the court hearing was the only time he fucked up and Logan didn't seem too upset about it, because he went first up and got ambushed. Being a fall guy for Logan came at the right time for Logan, but he just already ticks boxes for Logan and he was always going to see him in a different light over time. No silver spoon, a killer, but knows where to turn the knife. And the challenges do stimulate him mentally, Ken loses his respect when he folds like a deck of cards, not before it. IMO you're falling into the trap Kendall falls for when talking about his so called business mistakes, it was Ken that started this rollercoaster ride for the company, and he's obviously got a plan that Roman refused at the end of season 3 for sibling unity. The company was done for if they didn't fatten it up, Logan is still the one at the steering wheel and I don't see how he's fucked up when he hasn't been very unwell. A despicable person, but he's right, his kids were fucking idiots walking into a battle they already lost because they couldn't even keep their closest people onboard, not their mother, their godfather, their husband, Roman couldn't offer Gerri shit.
Tom and greg are very thematically important: they both show how the worst behaviours of the family have nothing to do with their historical status or personal priviligies, but with the rotten system they lived and profit from that can corrupt anyone from anywhere
That's simply not true. Their bad behavior is very much contingent on their past especially the abuse Logan suffered from as a child. The show perfectly captures what an emotionally wounded person can do to his children. It has both to do with power and their past.
the pause in "this is not a good... feeling you're making me have, greg" where tom looks up at the lights and blinks is just..... wow when i watched it the first time i thought for sure he was going to burst into tears. it's this moment of absolute vulnerability before he steels himself and feeds that emotion into raging out instead
This exemplifies how the writers properly planned it all from the beginning. This is how you run a show and ensure consistent plot points and development. Tom was shaping up to that crown from the start
When he said nero and sporus i just thought, oh Tom is just saying things haha usual Tom, hilarious. But when in the last episode he literally made an aliance with Gregg and betrayed Shiv it made me realize that Tom didnt play around, the nero and sporus thing is real and premeditated haha. I love Tom, GREAT VID👍👍
Same! Tom says the craziest things so I just assumed it was a throwaway and I should have picked up what he was planning to do when he called Greg "Sporus" in the finale, shocked me.
All the Tom stuff flew over my head until I read a piece in Vulture doing an expose on the character. That writer nailed all the “obvious” clues & showed the map leading up to the finale. I was blown away. I had been blind to it all & like you had laughed off a lot of what I saw as Tom’s weird jokes (although the castration comment was puzzling). I’ve long felt bad for Tom bc of Shiv but this betrayal is a bridge too far. Can’t imagine what Shiv does with this.
I would add that Nero didn’t shove his wife down stairs - he kicked her to death. AND she was pregnant at the time. Cue the Shiv-Tom convos about getting pregnant.
This is a great video. I think much of Tom's appeal comes from how Matthew Macfadyen absolutely bodies the role, throwing himself into all forms of comedy and drama, capable of speaking volumes with just one look, but there are also so many layers to Tom. When you hear people talk about how he married Shiv for power so has no room to talk, that feels so simplistic. Power was a big part of the dynamics, but he did love Shiv. He probably still does. You can see the hurt on his face when she finally makes it clear to him that she does not love him and that she is sure he stays with her because she is always out of his reach. The whole season has Tom slowly gravitating toward trusting Logan because he really has no one else, aside from Greg. The Greg and Tom relationship is fascinating because there is just so much going on, especially now that the show has made it clear the dynamics aren't just "Tom is crazy, poor Greg." I do think Tom is attracted to Greg, but he also sees Greg as a younger version of himself in some way, which is probably why he was so harsh toward him early on (not wanting to accept himself) and why he has gradually become kinder toward him as he has started to acknowledge truths about himself (how isolated he is, how he will never be happy with Shiv, if with anyone, etc.). Greg's feelings toward Tom are inscrutable, beyond the obvious (needing Tom for his advancement), but both actors make you keep wanting to know more. My favorite scene this season was the lingering look Tom gave as he watched the fascists lifting Greg up and Greg grinning throughout - you could see jealousy of Greg being on a high while he was about to go to prison, you could see sorrow that the Greg he'd known and cared about, bumbling his way through self-proclaimed morality, was a distant memory. Yet as much as Tom does likely mourn the days of Greg's relative innocence (judging by the way he expertly needed him the next morning for giving up his principles), Tom also continues to egg on Greg's further corruption as he sheds the last of his own virtues to just try to get whatever he can while he can. That's what made the last scene between them this season so enthralling to watch. It's walking hand and hand into hell.
Great Analysis, I do agree, Macfadyen owns what they are going for with Tom. I 100% agree with you especially with the telling Greg he's out of Comfrey's league and calling him a Scarecrow with a famous person (I forget which he used) feels a little on the nose for Tom being from the Midwest and likely called this when he first started dating Shiv, I wanted to include that point in this video but it felt a little clunky where I had it.
The trickle-down abuse is what fascinates me the most about this show, not just about the Roys but of corrupt power in general, and the pipeline from Logan to Shiv to Tom to Greg is the most fascinating.
the nero and sporus thing has been driving me insane. i regularly think to myself, "tom pushed his wife down the stairs and castrated greg." your montage at the end was perfect!
the way that tom reacts so strongly to greg's proposition of an open relationship compared to how he barely reacts at all to shiv's same proposition makes me so sad
Good essay, but I completely disagree that Tom doesn't care about power. As we see in the season 3 finale, he has been playing the game the whole time, better than a lot of the others.
I should have worded this better, I think he does care about power, but it wasn't his priority. He wanted a steady relationship with Shiv and to slowly rise in the corporate ladder
@@HizzyHay I...think he wants both equally. But in a loveless family he's the only one who longs to be loved (by Shiv). It's very relatable. And a bit of a gender reversal. Which is also moving. I like seeing men be vulnerable. We don't get to see that enough. It's compelling.
Class analysis, the point about Kendall and Tom being two sides of basically the same coin was something that I couldn't clearly shape in my mind until you said it here, one thing, his surname is Wambsgans with an S
AH! I recorded pronouncing it like 10 times and thought I picked the right one, whoops The Kendall and Tom really came last second when writing this, glad it worked! There’s a lot of great stuff I’m probably gonna notice on a rewatch
Tom's character arc is the best of season 3 and arguably the entire series. "Prague" was the episode that brought the show into focus, in part due to the deeper look at Tom. I can't think of any character in TV/film quite like him. Thanks for the breakdown of one of television's most unique and interesting characters!
I was actually trying to come up with a comparison for him, but to your point he is a very unique character. The way this show handles calculated plans and manipulation to get what you want is kinda what I wanted more out of for Game of Thrones, it starts off with that, but then Season 8 clearly just abandoned any of that.
How are people "divided" on season 3? It was amazing! My take is the show got somewhat big and picked up new fans who expect something else from their series. Something more "conventional" and straightforward.
A decent amount of people were complaining about this season on the Reddit, but I think you're right, it might've been a lot of the people that joined and didn't have to watch it week to week, definitely has a different feel to it when you watch it that way.
I actually didn't have an issue with Greg asking to "hang his bauble" on Tom's tree. He was asked to destroy the documents when he'd been with the company, and in the family, for a very short time. Yeah, Greg is crafty and cunning but he wasn't in a position to say no to Tom when he destroyed the documents.
fantastic writing!! i really love how you didn't need to explain the nero and sporus scenes. you did such a great job of setting up tom's character that rewatching the scene in your video felt as dramatic as watching it in the show:)
That's why I always prefer this kind of character in movies and tv shows. He seems to be the weak and born to be used kind of character and he totally is. But in the end, when all the powerful ones are fighting, he's the one that makes the move and gets what he wants
Really well said, especially with the idea that someone like Tom could never outright dethrone someone like Logan (or even Kendall) so he has to attach himself to the winning horse
Also let's remember that at the end of season 2 Tom eats Logan's chicken and then begins to get his respect the very next season. Coincidence? Of course not.
He did eat the chicken… but the man willingly volunteered to do a bid on behalf of Team Waystar Royco. I think that engendered a ton of favor from Logan. He followed up the chicken with this year’s snitching on the super majority plan of the siblings.
I do wonder though because narratively Kendall does a similar thing at the end of Season 2, and Logan says he wants killers, but theoretically he only wants those that will still be under him.
@@ewlexis haha, my mom doesn’t like Tom and Greg (she’s rather judgmental of all the characters in this show) but when we discussed season 3 finale, she literally said “I bet they’ll hook up at some point”😂
I know that it sounds aggressive and all but the sentence “I’ll castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat” always makes me smile and makes me feel somehow safe and soft, like hey maybe it’s insane but that’s what this whole thing is about, freaking doing insane shit for that person you appreciate so much, and the fact that Tom says he will do such a thing just says to us that he’s different from the Roy’s, he would actually have his hands dirty but for a love act for freaking happiness or for “less sad” as he says to Shiv. And that’s why he’s my favorite.
I honestly disagree with your assessment of Roman. He is the comedic relief, yes, but the central part of his character is not his sexual pervertedness, but rather his deep seated need to please his father. Throughout the series it has more or less been a competition between Roman and Kendall when it comes to who will become the CEO (While Shiv is cunning and cutthroat she lacks the skill it takes to be a businessman--however they all do). All i'm saying is don't sell Roman short when it comes to his motivations and desires.
totally agree. i think roman was probably treated the worst by logan growing up which turned into this intense deep-seated need to be his favorite, because he never truly felt loved by him. he's trying to make up for what he never had. thats also why he never went against logan until the finale. he's terrified of him. you can see it every time he's one on one with logan - his father makes him so uncomfortable. he knows that logan's love and contempt are on a razor's edge and he tries everything he can to please him so he wont have to bear his wrath. his outward persona is masking a lot of that internal discomfort, and while im not sure if its intentional or subconscious, i do think that he relies on being over the top all the time so he doesnt have to think about how he really feels. if people hate him, its for how he portrays himself, its for the persona he puts on and not for who he truly is. when kendall told him he wasnt a real person, it was a pretty tame insult but it seemed to be the only thing that actually got to him. because deep down he knows that's true. while roman isnt my favorite character (love u greg) i think he is much more complex than people give him credit for!
totally! and the series implicates so many times that roman has some sexual abuse in his childhood… im so scarred to know more about that, but its certain that we will
Thank you! Yeah honestly I could have dug in a little on Tom and Greg more, one point that didn’t messed with the flow a bit was the treehouse episode where Tom is telling Greg he’s way out of Comfrey’s league but he uses “scarecrow” and I saw someone on Reddit bring up that could have been used on Tom, lotta corn fields in the Midwest, when he was first dating Shiv (maybe not), but if so it’s another layer how Tom making fun of Greg could be this weird self deprecating reflection. Anyway I’m rambling, sorry! Glad you enjoyed the video
@@HizzyHay OMG that would make a lot of sense actually.. Please ramble more.. I was going to write a long comment and then got scared that it won't be read T-T Also, English is not my first language and I felt that my descriptions are not as thought through or adequate and would make me look stupid so I cut it short.. but really thank you for taking the time to do this and delivering such a well edited video
A little late for this, but the last ep of season 3 was so intense, dramatic and well executed that tears dropped from my eyes. It was the moment I realized Tom, whom I couldn't stand at the beginning of Sucession, was in fact my favorite caracther of the show. The end of this video captured the exact same feeling I got that day. This show is so good it hurts
Great video! Would you make a video on Greg too? He is my favorite character and I think his evolución troughout the show has been fascinating. "What I'm I going to do with a soul anyway?" Is one of my favorites quotes from the show.
If I did make another video on Succession it would definitely be about Greg, but I’d probably need another season of material. You’re right that quote is awesome!
The crazy part is I never realized Tom literally said what he would do. And Greg says, "Plot twist! Didn't see that coming." AND I NEVER SAW IT COMING. Yeah this show is really good.
Strong work on this video. I’ve always found Tom to be the most compelling character. He’s awful like the rest but somehow I’m emotionally attached to him. Matthew is wonderful.
I think the redeeming factor for Tom has always been that he truly cared for Shiv on a personal level throughout (almost all of) the series. Obviously that is contradicted by his acts in the S3 finale, but that was after he was worn down by the events of the show. He realized how naive he'd been and that the Waystar Royco world has no room for "true love".
Thank you! Part of that is how well he acts in that role but also I feel like I was rooting for him because he deserved better than the way Shiv was treating him, that beach scene :'(
03:30 “Tom doesn’t want success. He’s content with where he is at the company.” Have you even watched the show? 😂 Tom explicitly, directly says he wants to be CEO one day and that’s the heart of his and Shiv’s deal/relationship. Everytime there’s an opportunity, Tom chases it. Cruises, then to ATN. Shiv chose Tom to be her Trojan horse within Waystar because she didn’t have a role within the organisation. So Tom is NOT just looking for family. He’s ruthlessly ambitious and accepts humiliation as the cost of that goal. To call that ‘loyalty’ is naive. Tom is much less traumatised by the Roy family abuse so he’s able to hold sincere feelings for Shiv, and understand trust in relationships, and have fun without gaining something. That doesn’t make him a good person in anyway. Tom appears passive as that’s his route to power. And writing off Gregg as simply light hearted is also silly. Dude is savage. Another ruthlessly ambitious man who hides it with bumbling, boyish antics. The Disgusting Brothers are maybe the best players in the game and it’s bonkers that you fail to see that
Just uploaded a new video kinda about Tom, kinda not, only because my opinions about the character haven't changed too much. He's one of my favorite written characters of all time.
Every actor was terrific in Succession regardless of the size of their role (I have no intention of insulting anyone and hope no one else will either), with all having both comedic and dramatic chops, but for me, Matthew Macfadyen was the absolute star. I have been a fan of his for awhile and I think his performance as Tom was possibly his best onscreen performance to date. He is simply magnetic on screen, essentially playing multiple characters when you consider how consistently different he behaves depending on who he is around. He is the sole reason I will go to see Deadpool & Wolverine even if he only ends up having a small role in it. Something I have not seen people point out is how much older Macfadyen is than all of the other “young” cast members (the actors playing Shiv, Kendall, Roman, Greg, Jess, and Willa). He is 4-17 years older than them. I.e. he is a whopping 13 years older than the actors playing Shiv and Greg. Most actors get better and better as they get more experienced if they keep challenging themselves like he has, and I believe his age and experience works to his advantage in this role. Some things can only come with age.
He has been my favorite character the entire time but even I underestimated him... but now at the end of the third season. I see it. wow. It's such an incredible character arc.
Such a good analysis. I completely agree. A slow burn character for me - he could have been immediately dismissed as comic relief - but his daily grief and naked ambition has been a compelling progress.
Two points I disagree with: tom does care about power. Season 3 finale aside, he always inquires about his own position and once kendall's out of the picture he was hoping shiv would advocate for him as successor. Plus, it's not like he got to where he is by working hard. It was just nepotism
I think it is impossible to accurately talk about Greg without recognizing that the core of his character is cowardice. He may be smart or even capable at times but ultimately his defining feature is that he is venial and has no self-respect.
Definitely, the no self respect part was a huge part of this season in particular. I didn't really go full into that aspect because I was more bringing up Greg in reference to Tom.
I started rewatching season 1 and 2 right after I finished 3 and boy oh boy does it put things intro new perspective. Finding some many details, nuances and clues! Tom’s journey is remarkable.
Tom says he bought a book on the Romans to read in prison. One of the Roys is even named Roman. Greg asks if it’s a good book. Tom replies that it’s a decent book, possibly shading the story of the Roys. What Tom says about Nero betraying his wife with Sporus comes true when Tom and Greg save the company from the siblings’ attempted takeover. Just like Logan, Tom is a creator in this universe- he predicts the future because he makes it happen.
I can’t lie I was actually happy for Tom I think he was a guy who no one respected but did things for the company that people would try to divert it to someone else’s direction. The way shiv throughout the whole show tries to belittle him that ending part in the car where it feels like he’s the one in charge in the relationship just felt like his status just went up by a million.
I don't know man. Tom is probably my favourite of them all but he CLEARLY wanted to get to the top from season 1. He even gets a little frustrated when Shiv tells him Logan wanted her for CEO and says "I thought we wanted that for me".
Tom is like a grizzly in Jurassic Park, you look at the Dinosaurs and relate to the small fluffy animal who married into a family of T-rex. He's the most close thing to an average Joe but he definitely isn't one. He's a very wealthy privileged man who does very bad things regularly.
Tom doesn’t want more he wants to maintain his status. He is a static character working hard to remain on the same level, yet manages to keep moving up.
Yup, great video! Love me some Wambsgans. The Fool is a powerful archetype. I think he may have become more self-aware in the finale, which will only increase his power. In a way, he's the best of all of them, having risen above his birth status, but actually occupying something (however slight) of a moral high ground in the Roys' milieu.
Cousin Greg is a quiet narcissist and they are the most scorpion like. Tom does not realize blood is thicker than water. He thinks he has more power than Greg but he does not.
Safe Room has one of the best lines of dialogue when Greg mentions “open relationship.” This phrase is an instant trigger for Tom, who associates it with Shiv. Absolutely brilliant threading the needle.
‘ a small attack child ‘
yup. all he wants is to belong and be successful and everyone else just wants an open relationship where they can come and go as they please. poor guy haha.
Safe Room is my favorite episode because of its ability to capture every character so perfectly - everyone has a classic moment.
@@AnnClaire Great point, Tom just want to be put as someone's number one (which he might have now)
Personally I think “attack child” is the best line in the episode
Tom Wambsgans. Our Princess Diana. The People's Princess. Exactly.
Princess Tom and Grand Dutchy Greg?
@wynn1587Craig*
@@andie938 he might just answer to both 😂
We just won.
@@EdNorty I'm so glad I got the notification of your comment AFTER watching the episode🤣😅
I love him giving Kendall that reality check. Just an outsider perspective: you’ve lost a couple of times. Your dad never does. Why would I ever choose your team?
One of the perfect examples of when these characters briefly reveal they aren’t totally incompetent.
They’re all kinda f*** ups, and their wealth allows them to be, but they spend a ton of time ass- grabbing.
@@PayMeNoMind Tom has never really been incompetent, though. I mean, having Greg handle destroying the documents sure, but other than that he's always done his job well and managed to stay in Logan's good graces. He plays the game well, he's just still in a position where he has to sacrifice a lot to stay in it, which makes him look weak, but if anything is just more proof of his persistence.
Loved that exchange, other people saying no to joining Kendall didn't really effect him too much, but you can tell the way Tom said it messed with his ego.
@@johnr797 well this is the thing I like, the unspoken side of things. Tom can be drastically incompetent in his love life. And the Supreme Court stuff. So on and so forth. But he's still heading ATN. The guy seems to have strong approval at the small glimpses of the meetings he's in. And he can talk well onstage which is demonstrated a couple times. It's brushed over but in the background it seems Tom is wholly capabale of doing his job and doing it well. He is an ass kissing person who struggles to get out from underneath Shiv, but that is looking to change some.
@@aubreypressley1450 Some might be an understatement, but I agree otherwise
Such a brilliant character. I can explicitly remember getting halfway through season 1 and finally realizing that WE (the audience) are the ONLY people who truly know who Tom is. Greg and Shiv give us access to his two halves, and we slowly put together the true man is somewhere in the middle of how he interacts with these two individuals
That’s so true! Great point
that brings to light the truly amazing performance of Matthew, he has to play like 5 different roles in one character, as he is who he is depending on who has in front of him
@@maxwedewferg He really has the range. The amount of times he's gone from being acting completely normal one moment to saying/doing something apeshit the next.
I finished the show and never really had it click like that in my head. More of a subconscious thing
Tom, the character, gets a lot of well deserved love. But can we talk about Matthew Macfadyen, the actor, that plays him? What an incredible talent...
Truly!
A talent that has been around for some considerable time and very well known in the U.K. Married to Keeley Hawes, also a gifted actor.
Would have never pegged Mr. Darcy for this great of comedic AND dramatic chops.
I first discovered and became a fan of Matthew McFayden years ago on the MI-5 series as I was always searching the internet for British productions. He left early in the show...he met Keely Hawes there and they both left. I kept searching for him. I loved him in Little Dorrit. He is an acting total package.
YES! He was a REALLY moving and vulnerable, authentic Mr Darcy and I'm so glad he's getting a role worthy of him.
Your montage about Nero and Sporus cut with scenes leading to the finale literally gave me shivers. Wow!
You mean, it gave you Shiv's 😜
I loudly gasped. So well made. WOW.
Timestamp?
Yeah that was legit well done!
!
Kind of wish they ended the season like that
Well, this video aged like fine wine.
Just like an important piece of information
Tom approves the smokey flavor
I like how Greg was eating an omelette in the diner scene, as he piled his corporate wrongdoing on Tomlette.
Love when my eggs come with a side of accepting more corporate blame
yeah ali, hows it going ?
If Tom or Greg were short nobody would like them. Seriously imagine Greg's awkward stuttering mess of a character in Romans body. His character is an accurate portrayal of how far being tall and white will get you in corporate America.
@@investor.z I imagined that and, yes, I absolutely agree.
You probably already know Culkin was originally cast as Greg, which would’ve changed everything else on down the line.
@@investor.z sounds like something a manlet would say
I think Logan likes Tom because he is not "to the manor born". Logan has contempt for his own children because they have not had to struggle the way he did. So, he coddled them - and then resents them for being coddled. Tom is not that way. While he has married into wealth, he still has more connection to the real world than his own children do. At the end of Season 3, we also see that Tom is now a "killer" of Shiv. And we know Logan respects a killer. Tom has done what's necessary to get ahead.
Yeah, but I think the greatest lesson Shiv, Roman, and Kendall could learn from this is that they don't have to seek validation from their father and that they must strengthen their relationship as siblings and learn to trust each other instead of going against each other for the sake of their father and this final will bring them together closer to each other while Logan will have nobody except Tom and Greg who wouldn't care about him one bit and are just here for the money.
@@alexm6453 Agree. Unfortunately for them, Logan is smarter and better at playing the game.
@@jlasf Kendall is my favorite character and I would really love to see him get away from his toxic father and the company and seek therapy and by the end of this season he’s really not into it anymore which could be a sign hopefully
Because it’s not about winning the company as much as winning your true self and creating genuine relationships
@@Ok-df1uz I think you're forgetting that Shiv convinced him to move away from offering Tom as a blood sacrifice pretty easily. He was never enthused about how everyone threw Tom and Greg under the bus. Tom gained his trust over time, the court hearing was the only time he fucked up and Logan didn't seem too upset about it, because he went first up and got ambushed.
Being a fall guy for Logan came at the right time for Logan, but he just already ticks boxes for Logan and he was always going to see him in a different light over time. No silver spoon, a killer, but knows where to turn the knife. And the challenges do stimulate him mentally, Ken loses his respect when he folds like a deck of cards, not before it.
IMO you're falling into the trap Kendall falls for when talking about his so called business mistakes, it was Ken that started this rollercoaster ride for the company, and he's obviously got a plan that Roman refused at the end of season 3 for sibling unity. The company was done for if they didn't fatten it up, Logan is still the one at the steering wheel and I don't see how he's fucked up when he hasn't been very unwell. A despicable person, but he's right, his kids were fucking idiots walking into a battle they already lost because they couldn't even keep their closest people onboard, not their mother, their godfather, their husband, Roman couldn't offer Gerri shit.
Tom and greg are very thematically important: they both show how the worst behaviours of the family have nothing to do with their historical status or personal priviligies, but with the rotten system they lived and profit from that can corrupt anyone from anywhere
Ooooh well put!
That's simply not true. Their bad behavior is very much contingent on their past especially the abuse Logan suffered from as a child. The show perfectly captures what an emotionally wounded person can do to his children. It has both to do with power and their past.
You know what they say, You cant make a tomlette without breaking a few Gregs
@@MrMrSwitzerland1 well greg might've been more of a regular joe in the beginning of the show
This is a character show, not a politics show.
It's not a safe room if an Attack Child could possibly get in.
😂
i like how Attack Child is a proper noun
@@enviisyk well, it sounded like a proper noun to me; clearly a title of distinction.
the pause in "this is not a good... feeling you're making me have, greg" where tom looks up at the lights and blinks is just..... wow when i watched it the first time i thought for sure he was going to burst into tears. it's this moment of absolute vulnerability before he steels himself and feeds that emotion into raging out instead
Connor Roy was interested in politics from a very young age.
And HE IS THE ELDEST SON!!
@@chrisrowe2845 damn you beat me by an hour
I think this must make us Con Heads!
I love you
Best line 😂
This exemplifies how the writers properly planned it all from the beginning. This is how you run a show and ensure consistent plot points and development. Tom was shaping up to that crown from the start
They definitely put so much effort into thinking of the characters each time they'd develop a new plot line season to season.
I just read somewhere that Tom is what they wanted Bran The Broken to be in GOT, which hurt me a lot as a fan of both series but is soooo TRUE
When he said nero and sporus i just thought, oh Tom is just saying things haha usual Tom, hilarious. But when in the last episode he literally made an aliance with Gregg and betrayed Shiv it made me realize that Tom didnt play around, the nero and sporus thing is real and premeditated haha. I love Tom, GREAT VID👍👍
Same! Tom says the craziest things so I just assumed it was a throwaway and I should have picked up what he was planning to do when he called Greg "Sporus" in the finale, shocked me.
@@HizzyHay right?!?!? He WAS starting to plot in Gregg's office 😄
All the Tom stuff flew over my head until I read a piece in Vulture doing an expose on the character. That writer nailed all the “obvious” clues & showed the map leading up to the finale. I was blown away. I had been blind to it all & like you had laughed off a lot of what I saw as Tom’s weird jokes (although the castration comment was puzzling). I’ve long felt bad for Tom bc of Shiv but this betrayal is a bridge too far. Can’t imagine what Shiv does with this.
I would add that Nero didn’t shove his wife down stairs - he kicked her to death. AND she was pregnant at the time. Cue the Shiv-Tom convos about getting pregnant.
@@scarletibis3158 Whoooa. That's heavy.
This is a great video. I think much of Tom's appeal comes from how Matthew Macfadyen absolutely bodies the role, throwing himself into all forms of comedy and drama, capable of speaking volumes with just one look, but there are also so many layers to Tom. When you hear people talk about how he married Shiv for power so has no room to talk, that feels so simplistic. Power was a big part of the dynamics, but he did love Shiv. He probably still does. You can see the hurt on his face when she finally makes it clear to him that she does not love him and that she is sure he stays with her because she is always out of his reach. The whole season has Tom slowly gravitating toward trusting Logan because he really has no one else, aside from Greg. The Greg and Tom relationship is fascinating because there is just so much going on, especially now that the show has made it clear the dynamics aren't just "Tom is crazy, poor Greg." I do think Tom is attracted to Greg, but he also sees Greg as a younger version of himself in some way, which is probably why he was so harsh toward him early on (not wanting to accept himself) and why he has gradually become kinder toward him as he has started to acknowledge truths about himself (how isolated he is, how he will never be happy with Shiv, if with anyone, etc.). Greg's feelings toward Tom are inscrutable, beyond the obvious (needing Tom for his advancement), but both actors make you keep wanting to know more. My favorite scene this season was the lingering look Tom gave as he watched the fascists lifting Greg up and Greg grinning throughout - you could see jealousy of Greg being on a high while he was about to go to prison, you could see sorrow that the Greg he'd known and cared about, bumbling his way through self-proclaimed morality, was a distant memory. Yet as much as Tom does likely mourn the days of Greg's relative innocence (judging by the way he expertly needed him the next morning for giving up his principles), Tom also continues to egg on Greg's further corruption as he sheds the last of his own virtues to just try to get whatever he can while he can. That's what made the last scene between them this season so enthralling to watch. It's walking hand and hand into hell.
Great Analysis, I do agree, Macfadyen owns what they are going for with Tom. I 100% agree with you especially with the telling Greg he's out of Comfrey's league and calling him a Scarecrow with a famous person (I forget which he used) feels a little on the nose for Tom being from the Midwest and likely called this when he first started dating Shiv, I wanted to include that point in this video but it felt a little clunky where I had it.
Nicely said!
@@HizzyHay
Oh, so you are the creator here. Hi! GREAT CHANNEL.⚘️😌⚘️
The trickle-down abuse is what fascinates me the most about this show, not just about the Roys but of corrupt power in general, and the pipeline from Logan to Shiv to Tom to Greg is the most fascinating.
the nero and sporus thing has been driving me insane. i regularly think to myself, "tom pushed his wife down the stairs and castrated greg." your montage at the end was perfect!
I think it’s going to flip. Greg becomes Nero to Toms Sporus.
@@EKKH167 if you've seen the promo for season 4 where greg is looking victorious behind logan while tom looks miserable, I think you're right
This aged so well after the finale
the way that tom reacts so strongly to greg's proposition of an open relationship compared to how he barely reacts at all to shiv's same proposition makes me so sad
Good essay, but I completely disagree that Tom doesn't care about power. As we see in the season 3 finale, he has been playing the game the whole time, better than a lot of the others.
I should have worded this better, I think he does care about power, but it wasn't his priority. He wanted a steady relationship with Shiv and to slowly rise in the corporate ladder
@@HizzyHay
I...think he wants both equally. But in a loveless family he's the only one who longs to be loved (by Shiv). It's very relatable. And a bit of a gender reversal. Which is also moving. I like seeing men be vulnerable. We don't get to see that enough. It's compelling.
Class analysis, the point about Kendall and Tom being two sides of basically the same coin was something that I couldn't clearly shape in my mind until you said it here, one thing, his surname is Wambsgans with an S
AH! I recorded pronouncing it like 10 times and thought I picked the right one, whoops
The Kendall and Tom really came last second when writing this, glad it worked! There’s a lot of great stuff I’m probably gonna notice on a rewatch
Tom's character arc is the best of season 3 and arguably the entire series. "Prague" was the episode that brought the show into focus, in part due to the deeper look at Tom. I can't think of any character in TV/film quite like him. Thanks for the breakdown of one of television's most unique and interesting characters!
I was actually trying to come up with a comparison for him, but to your point he is a very unique character. The way this show handles calculated plans and manipulation to get what you want is kinda what I wanted more out of for Game of Thrones, it starts off with that, but then Season 8 clearly just abandoned any of that.
How are people "divided" on season 3? It was amazing! My take is the show got somewhat big and picked up new fans who expect something else from their series. Something more "conventional" and straightforward.
Same
season three is definitely my fav, it’s like the show gets better with every season and i can’t wait for season four
@lelouch Yeah, I won't lie I was thinking like this a little with the first couple episode, but once you have the whole context for the season.
A decent amount of people were complaining about this season on the Reddit, but I think you're right, it might've been a lot of the people that joined and didn't have to watch it week to week, definitely has a different feel to it when you watch it that way.
Tom has some of the funniest line deliveries I've ever seen.
Macfadyen is one of the best comedic actors on TV right now
So f*cking good. Season 3 was a masterpiece
Can’t wait to rewatch it too, one of the best things from this year
I actually didn't have an issue with Greg asking to "hang his bauble" on Tom's tree. He was asked to destroy the documents when he'd been with the company, and in the family, for a very short time. Yeah, Greg is crafty and cunning but he wasn't in a position to say no to Tom when he destroyed the documents.
fantastic writing!! i really love how you didn't need to explain the nero and sporus scenes. you did such a great job of setting up tom's character that rewatching the scene in your video felt as dramatic as watching it in the show:)
I'm glad it turned out well! I had stuff written for that moment, but the allegory really does speak for itself.
That's why I always prefer this kind of character in movies and tv shows. He seems to be the weak and born to be used kind of character and he totally is. But in the end, when all the powerful ones are fighting, he's the one that makes the move and gets what he wants
Really well said, especially with the idea that someone like Tom could never outright dethrone someone like Logan (or even Kendall) so he has to attach himself to the winning horse
yup. i underestimated him... he seemed so weak and simping but he actually made all the right moves for what he wants. it's pretty incredible.
To create a Tomelette, you have to break a few Greggs.
I'm so glad that youtube recommended this video to me, because tom is such an interesting character. thank you for making this video!
Glad TH-cam brought you here! Tom is so fascinating as a character in this family
Also let's remember that at the end of season 2 Tom eats Logan's chicken and then begins to get his respect the very next season. Coincidence? Of course not.
He did eat the chicken… but the man willingly volunteered to do a bid on behalf of Team Waystar Royco.
I think that engendered a ton of favor from Logan. He followed up the chicken with this year’s snitching on the super majority plan of the siblings.
I do wonder though because narratively Kendall does a similar thing at the end of Season 2, and Logan says he wants killers, but theoretically he only wants those that will still be under him.
This Nero/Sporus quote on top of this edit is AWESOME. Congrats.
God, I love this series.
It was so fun going back and getting the clips for it! Glad it turned out well
Anyone here after the finale? This video hit the nail on the head
Tom stays winning
Can't wait for the homoeroticism between Greg and Tom to blossom into a fully-fledged relationship. They have more chemistry than Tom and Shiv tbh
I ironically thought the same thing, until my own Dad texted me, “do Tom & Greg have a gay thing going on?” so it’s not just me!
I don’t see it
Honestly, I just liked their dynamic and shipped them as a joke… but I don’t think it’s a joke anymore
@@ewlexis haha, my mom doesn’t like Tom and Greg (she’s rather judgmental of all the characters in this show) but when we discussed season 3 finale, she literally said “I bet they’ll hook up at some point”😂
It always gave me mentor & student vibes cos Tom is constantly setting Greg on certain paths - both helpful and hindering
I know that it sounds aggressive and all but the sentence “I’ll castrate you and marry you in a heartbeat” always makes me smile and makes me feel somehow safe and soft, like hey maybe it’s insane but that’s what this whole thing is about, freaking doing insane shit for that person you appreciate so much, and the fact that Tom says he will do such a thing just says to us that he’s different from the Roy’s, he would actually have his hands dirty but for a love act for freaking happiness or for “less sad” as he says to Shiv.
And that’s why he’s my favorite.
just coming back to say hi after the finale! lmao
hell yeah
just coming back to say hi after a new Succession video uploaded!
I honestly disagree with your assessment of Roman. He is the comedic relief, yes, but the central part of his character is not his sexual pervertedness, but rather his deep seated need to please his father. Throughout the series it has more or less been a competition between Roman and Kendall when it comes to who will become the CEO (While Shiv is cunning and cutthroat she lacks the skill it takes to be a businessman--however they all do). All i'm saying is don't sell Roman short when it comes to his motivations and desires.
totally agree. i think roman was probably treated the worst by logan growing up which turned into this intense deep-seated need to be his favorite, because he never truly felt loved by him. he's trying to make up for what he never had. thats also why he never went against logan until the finale. he's terrified of him. you can see it every time he's one on one with logan - his father makes him so uncomfortable. he knows that logan's love and contempt are on a razor's edge and he tries everything he can to please him so he wont have to bear his wrath. his outward persona is masking a lot of that internal discomfort, and while im not sure if its intentional or subconscious, i do think that he relies on being over the top all the time so he doesnt have to think about how he really feels. if people hate him, its for how he portrays himself, its for the persona he puts on and not for who he truly is. when kendall told him he wasnt a real person, it was a pretty tame insult but it seemed to be the only thing that actually got to him. because deep down he knows that's true. while roman isnt my favorite character (love u greg) i think he is much more complex than people give him credit for!
I also think Roman is the one who actually loves. Making him, in a super odd way the best of the Romans?
totally! and the series implicates so many times that roman has some sexual abuse in his childhood… im so scarred to know more about that, but its certain that we will
yes !!
Tom and Greg have always been my favorite couple
well, this aged like the finest wine
The finest, fit for a king like Tom
I'm so glad I found this video
Thank you! Yeah honestly I could have dug in a little on Tom and Greg more, one point that didn’t messed with the flow a bit was the treehouse episode where Tom is telling Greg he’s way out of Comfrey’s league but he uses “scarecrow” and I saw someone on Reddit bring up that could have been used on Tom, lotta corn fields in the Midwest, when he was first dating Shiv (maybe not), but if so it’s another layer how Tom making fun of Greg could be this weird self deprecating reflection. Anyway I’m rambling, sorry! Glad you enjoyed the video
@@HizzyHay OMG
that would make a lot of sense actually..
Please ramble more..
I was going to write a long comment and then got scared that it won't be read T-T
Also, English is not my first language and I felt that my descriptions are not as thought through or adequate and would make me look stupid so I cut it short..
but really thank you for taking the time to do this and delivering such a well edited video
A little late for this, but the last ep of season 3 was so intense, dramatic and well executed that tears dropped from my eyes. It was the moment I realized Tom, whom I couldn't stand at the beginning of Sucession, was in fact my favorite caracther of the show. The end of this video captured the exact same feeling I got that day. This show is so good it hurts
Great video! Would you make a video on Greg too? He is my favorite character and I think his evolución troughout the show has been fascinating.
"What I'm I going to do with a soul anyway?" Is one of my favorites quotes from the show.
If I did make another video on Succession it would definitely be about Greg, but I’d probably need another season of material. You’re right that quote is awesome!
The crazy part is I never realized Tom literally said what he would do. And Greg says, "Plot twist! Didn't see that coming." AND I NEVER SAW IT COMING. Yeah this show is really good.
1:36 that is pretty much the ending of the series… it was right in front of us.
YES
Hahaha didn't even think about, great call back
Strong work on this video. I’ve always found Tom to be the most compelling character. He’s awful like the rest but somehow I’m emotionally attached to him. Matthew is wonderful.
I think the redeeming factor for Tom has always been that he truly cared for Shiv on a personal level throughout (almost all of) the series.
Obviously that is contradicted by his acts in the S3 finale, but that was after he was worn down by the events of the show. He realized how naive he'd been and that the Waystar Royco world has no room for "true love".
@@Darwinfeeshy that's a great point, there's a certain purity to him at first with Shiv, it grounds him comparatively to the rest of the family
Thank you! Part of that is how well he acts in that role but also I feel like I was rooting for him because he deserved better than the way Shiv was treating him, that beach scene :'(
Its all just so good and Tom/Greg dynamic is the perfect couple of this amazing show
I wish one of these awards shows would have a best duo award, I think there's a lot of performances that work as a tandem.
@@HizzyHay That is a great idea, would be a fantastic category!👍
"There's no succession without Tom". Precisely! hehe
He's the secret sauce for Succession
03:30 “Tom doesn’t want success. He’s content with where he is at the company.”
Have you even watched the show? 😂
Tom explicitly, directly says he wants to be CEO one day and that’s the heart of his and Shiv’s deal/relationship.
Everytime there’s an opportunity, Tom chases it. Cruises, then to ATN.
Shiv chose Tom to be her Trojan horse within Waystar because she didn’t have a role within the organisation.
So Tom is NOT just looking for family. He’s ruthlessly ambitious and accepts humiliation as the cost of that goal. To call that ‘loyalty’ is naive.
Tom is much less traumatised by the Roy family abuse so he’s able to hold sincere feelings for Shiv, and understand trust in relationships, and have fun without gaining something. That doesn’t make him a good person in anyway.
Tom appears passive as that’s his route to power.
And writing off Gregg as simply light hearted is also silly. Dude is savage. Another ruthlessly ambitious man who hides it with bumbling, boyish antics.
The Disgusting Brothers are maybe the best players in the game and it’s bonkers that you fail to see that
Wow! It would be really awesome if you could add the analysis of Tom character now that the series finale came out! GREAT video essay!!! ❤
Just uploaded a new video kinda about Tom, kinda not, only because my opinions about the character haven't changed too much. He's one of my favorite written characters of all time.
"Rising Shiv's lift all Toms" was a great line bro. Thank you for that.
The ending gave me chills. God I love this show
Can't wait for it to return!
LOVED the montage at the end, great stuff all around
Well, this video aged well.
GO TOM!!!!
You really called it with this one.
Every actor was terrific in Succession regardless of the size of their role (I have no intention of insulting anyone and hope no one else will either), with all having both comedic and dramatic chops, but for me, Matthew Macfadyen was the absolute star. I have been a fan of his for awhile and I think his performance as Tom was possibly his best onscreen performance to date. He is simply magnetic on screen, essentially playing multiple characters when you consider how consistently different he behaves depending on who he is around. He is the sole reason I will go to see Deadpool & Wolverine even if he only ends up having a small role in it.
Something I have not seen people point out is how much older Macfadyen is than all of the other “young” cast members (the actors playing Shiv, Kendall, Roman, Greg, Jess, and Willa). He is 4-17 years older than them. I.e. he is a whopping 13 years older than the actors playing Shiv and Greg. Most actors get better and better as they get more experienced if they keep challenging themselves like he has, and I believe his age and experience works to his advantage in this role. Some things can only come with age.
Came back to say... The best man won.
Haha welcome back
You fucking NAILED IT 🫡
Thanks! Cooking something that'll be out soon
This hits different after the finale
He has been my favorite character the entire time but even I underestimated him... but now at the end of the third season. I see it. wow. It's such an incredible character arc.
I think they did a decent job in giving Tom less to do in Season 3, or at least not as much of a lead as Season 2, then to end with that is shocking
I got goosebumps at the end of the video.
Tom has chosen Nero's path and betrayed his wife for power.
Such a good analysis. I completely agree. A slow burn character for me - he could have been immediately dismissed as comic relief - but his daily grief and naked ambition has been a compelling progress.
This was a perfect video you did not waste one second, thank goodness
This was awesome. Please do more characters/themes from the show
Maybe! I wouldn't even know where to begin next, but there's a lot of great stuff to analyze
i love him so much thank you for this!
You’re welcome, Tom is the best 😎
Insightful analysis, great narratives and superb editing especially on Nero and Sporus. Thanks for sharing.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it
Coming back here after seeing that finale
If you need something to watch without an episode this weekend my new Succession vid is up B)
Left out the best part at the end, when Greg says “who needs a soul anyway”
Honestly I keep coming back to this video essay because you have summarized on why Tom is my favorite character in succession !
You can't make a Tomlette without breaking a few Gregs.
It’s funny how you can notice that Tom is portrayed by a British actor. He’s an extremely British character in all imaginable ways
Two points I disagree with: tom does care about power. Season 3 finale aside, he always inquires about his own position and once kendall's out of the picture he was hoping shiv would advocate for him as successor. Plus, it's not like he got to where he is by working hard. It was just nepotism
Tom out here playing the game of thrones.
😁
I think it is impossible to accurately talk about Greg without recognizing that the core of his character is cowardice. He may be smart or even capable at times but ultimately his defining feature is that he is venial and has no self-respect.
Definitely, the no self respect part was a huge part of this season in particular. I didn't really go full into that aspect because I was more bringing up Greg in reference to Tom.
I started rewatching season 1 and 2 right after I finished 3 and boy oh boy does it put things intro new perspective. Finding some many details, nuances and clues! Tom’s journey is remarkable.
it's amazing how you predict it @___@ it was there the whole time. This show will live forever such an amazing show
Incredible show! I just uploaded a new video on the series.
Tom says he bought a book on the Romans to read in prison. One of the Roys is even named Roman. Greg asks if it’s a good book. Tom replies that it’s a decent book, possibly shading the story of the Roys. What Tom says about Nero betraying his wife with Sporus comes true when Tom and Greg save the company from the siblings’ attempted takeover. Just like Logan, Tom is a creator in this universe- he predicts the future because he makes it happen.
I can’t lie I was actually happy for Tom I think he was a guy who no one respected but did things for the company that people would try to divert it to someone else’s direction. The way shiv throughout the whole show tries to belittle him that ending part in the car where it feels like he’s the one in charge in the relationship just felt like his status just went up by a million.
I’m a simple man , I see a succession video I hit the like button
here after the finale :)
If you're still here I posted a new video on the finale!
The Nero/Sporus analogy is just perfect for Tom and Gregory. It's egotistical and patronising but very sweet.
That scene where Tom and Shiv "clear the air" is one of the best written piece of script to be put on a screen.
Great video breakdown! Glad this came up on my recommended :) new sub
Yippee! Welcome and thank you
Team Wamsgams since day 1. No toilet wine for Tom
First move as CEO, sending Nate to prison haha
I agree. You always have to have one character you root for. Feel for. Or relate too. Watching shows w/o any redeemable characters is difficult.
This was REALLY fun to watch here in the future.
Coming back to watch this after his victory
You love to see it (just posted a new video on the finale)
7:34 "How is it safe! Its just a room!" That shouldn't make me laugh but yet it does. 😂
I don't know man. Tom is probably my favourite of them all but he CLEARLY wanted to get to the top from season 1. He even gets a little frustrated when Shiv tells him Logan wanted her for CEO and says "I thought we wanted that for me".
This man predicted the end of season 4
By no means could I have predicted Stewy was a pancakes and waffles guy. New vid is up btw!
Tom is like a grizzly in Jurassic Park, you look at the Dinosaurs and relate to the small fluffy animal who married into a family of T-rex.
He's the most close thing to an average Joe but he definitely isn't one. He's a very wealthy privileged man who does very bad things regularly.
Really like this comparison! Compared to his company he seems less menacing, but in most other crowds he's still tenacious.
the editing at the end was so good thanks for doing that
Amazing editing at the end ♥️🙂😄 great video :)
Thank you so much! 😁
At the start he was my least favorite character, at the end he was my favorite.
"Syphilis, the Myspace of STD's."- Tom W.
Tom doesn’t want more he wants to maintain his status. He is a static character working hard to remain on the same level, yet manages to keep moving up.
You saw it coming.
Yup, great video! Love me some Wambsgans. The Fool is a powerful archetype. I think he may have become more self-aware in the finale, which will only increase his power. In a way, he's the best of all of them, having risen above his birth status, but actually occupying something (however slight) of a moral high ground in the Roys' milieu.
Cousin Greg is a quiet narcissist and they are the most scorpion like. Tom does not realize blood is thicker than water. He thinks he has more power than Greg but he does not.
Tom killed Logan. Impregnated his daughter. Took the throne.
How did he kill logan?
@@miguelleal8954 it was a joke. He was the last person to see him alive, right? It fits the narrative of usurping the throne.
@@rick3461 yeah makes sense. Just wondered for a sec if you had a theory that he ACTUALLY killed logan 😂