You're right about it being proprietary, and I certainly can't fault you for not being interested, but I wish you wouldn't call it garbage. It's an excellent browser, and I'm hoping they either make it open source (I've heard there's been some debate amongst the developers), or it inspires other projects to up their game
The way he said it implied that it was lumped together with all other proprietary software (which is garbage to him). In the end he commented about how it could be good and if you're happy with it.The thing is though Firefox got a hell of a lot better recently. I loved Vivaldi at first, but I'm back on FF and loving it. In ways, it's better than Vivaldi!
True that. Vivaldi is one of the only real privacy focussed browsers other than Brave (which does shady stuff and gets caight regularly). And here we are on a Linux channel bashing it. Sad really
@@madthumbs1564 Has it? Firefox was my browser of choice for over a decade, but I've barely touched it lately outside of their mobile app (which is still better than Vivaldi's). I'll have to play around with it some And yeah, I appreciated that bit at the end and could've overlooked his earlier comment, but the FACT bit at the bottom really seemed to really irked me
@@RP-kr2mg Well, nothing closed source can ever be really privacy-focused from a consumer perspective, even if it thoroughly does protect privacy under the hood..
I thought everyone knew Vivaldi was proprietary software, It was developed from Opera web browser when Opera decided to move to the Chromium engine and one of the main developers wanted to keep the original features of Opera
@Alexander Glavan Vivaldi was founded under the Opera company, Quote: "Vivaldi began as a virtual community website that replaced My Opera, which was shut down by Opera Software in March 2014" I agree Vivaldi is is not connected to Opera these days and is a far better browser(even if it uses the chromium engine) than Opera web browser, its still proprietary software tho', nothing wrong with that in my opinion either , but the fact the remains the same as DT said, its proprietary software....
They have only released the source of older versions, so you can't even audit the program you're running. For all you know the code is completely different.
Well, you can run the old version. They're not that far behind at all in terms of features. I think it's a decent "meet you half way" for a company which wants to be closed source.
@@kris10an64 Indeed. Though as Vivaldi isn't usually that buggy, I think that's quite sufferable if you feel you absolutely MUST have both Vivaldi and open source.
Kris10an Vivaldi is great because its a got a number of built in productivity features I can’t really find elsewhere. It supports in tab tiling, which of course can be done with a window Tiling manager, but there are some use cases when its far more convenient. It’s also got notes, a pomodoro timer, an extremely customizable UI out of the box, etc. But i get that people want to use open source and I use as much as I can, but I’m also not so dedicated that I’m going to not use something that’s super convenient. I would use another browser in a heart beat if I could find something that lets me do tabs on the left and tiling though.
I believe the confusion comes from the fact that it's based on Chromium, so it's assumed the project must be at least mostly open, while ignoring Chrome itself is Chromium+Proprietary Garbage.
Even Chromium is not packaged on some of the fully free distros due to some licensing ambiguity and people claiming the project is too big for any one person to have audited it and made sure it's all really free software. Parabola has refused to package even ungoogled-chromium for years now. Guix decided someone had made them believe it was free, so they packaged it a while back, then the other free software distros attacked them and tried to say Guix was not free anymore. It's a messy situation.
@@SoundToxin Chromium itself is open source, but the problem is the optimization of many web development SDK mostly optimizes their performance in Blink web engine, so this claim has been spread by Firefox fanbase and actually the hardcore free software fanbase reject Chromium and/or any other open-source fork. Actually, with Firefox and other forks doesn't have the same criteria. Many of these Firefox haters that ditch the Firefox forks doesn't understand the relevance that haves Abrowser, Parabola Iceweasel and Icecat, which actually audits most of the implementations that puts in every new release of Firefox.
The confusion comes from Stallman's camp slowly co-opting the term open source and chancing it's meaning from source available to free in the Stallman sense. There's a reason Stallman didn't like the phrases open source and free and open source software. Software like Vivaldi that is open source but not FREE is that reason.
This can be confusing. I think urugulu was referring to the word "free" as price (gratis); while Richard is obviously talking about "free" as in freedom (libre).
I can't use anything other than Vivaldi anymore. Vivaldi has amazing features no other browser seems to have. Especially the web panels are the best feature of Vivaldi. I can open up Google Translate or a dictionary with a keybind in a web panel. In no other browser can I do this exact thing. If you know any browser or (open source) browser extension that I can do this with, PLEASE give me a reply. I've tried Firefox Side View, but I can't set keybindings with it, so it's basically useless to me.
It can be done very easily with a window manager with any browser of your choice. Web panel is a redundant feature that WMs can already do and that too in a much better way. Though, it may not be very easy to set up, it is just much much better.
@@SenthilBabuji that's actually a really interesting idea. I might look into it. Imagine the possibilities. Pressing a keybind and typing in a word in something like dmenu, and it then looking it up in a dictionary. Hmm.
@@username4471 I have scripts that opens web tools into layouts I have defined and switched to them. If already open it just switches to those layouts. Also I can combine this with other apps that are not necessarily browser based. The possibilities are just endless.
This is why I almost exclusively use the term __Libre__ and __FLOSS__ when talking about free software, and __Gratis__ when talking about freeware. Those two words really should be more common. Peoeple keep making excuses as to why it would be difficult for English speakers to understand quickly, whilst companies are taking advantage of people saying their software is "open source" but never mention if it's actually not "free" as in "libre". If you just say __"libre as in liberty, freedom"__, most English, non-romantic (Spanish, French, etc) speakers will get it almost instantly. The same is with __"Gratis"__. There are people who still think _open source_ also means _libre_.
That's not much. Vivaldi is closer to if Microsoft published the full source code of Windows 98, but left out Internet Explorer 4 and it's ActiveX shell. And I like Windows 95's shell much better anywaysa.
Honestly give me a UI as minimal and workable as Vivaldi and I shall switch in a second. Qute or min browsers don't support extensions or have some big missing features that Vivaldi does not. It's so minimal and perfectly usable, I've been loving it!
It's minimal yet really feature complete, it has a lot of unique features that are genuinely relevant and usefull. If I come across any FOSS browser that does it as well as Vivaldi, I'm not gonna be fanboying, I'll seriously consider switching.
Thanks for the video, DT. I think that the first step to get users into libre software is to make "normal" users aware that there is software beyond MS and their applications like IE, word and Excel even if they use proprietary software in the first place. Then the users can learn about free and open source software. The power users are easy to get onboard but I have the regular users in mind. Just my two cents...thanks again for your content.
I really love the functionality of Vivaldi - it has features that I have not seen any other browser do and their focus seems to be on actually trying to invent new features. If there is an open source alternative to that, I'd sure love it, but the features do test my open source faith (and again, the fact that they actually try to invent new features, I am a huge fan of that, even if a lot of them are poorly implemented, or just plain useless). It is a project that I follow, use and naively hope will grow and bring me some tiny but new features to tinker with.
I kinda agree with you. I totally understand why people would not use Vivaldi out of principle, and if it was not for how great of a browser Vivaldi is I would do the same. But the fact is that I have not seen any FOSS browser do it as well as Vivaldi, and I really regret that. Like you said, Vivaldi has many novel and genuinely useful features that are absent from pretty much all other browsers, and it also has amazing configurability that is consistent with it's features, which cannot be said of a lot of browsers in my opinion. I wholeheartedly support the FOSS movement and Open Source Initiative, but I'm also human and I have my own ways in which I am willing to make compromises. Favouring Vivaldi's great and unique features in spite of it being closed-source and proprietary is one such compromise I am deciding to make. If I come across any trully FOSS browser that does it as well as Vivaldi, you won't see me fanboying over Vivaldi, I'll seriously consider switching.
FireFox fixed their shit. No longer any trouble on YT, better PiP, syncs like Vivaldi, and doesn't try to stop you from downloading YT videos. -I'm back on FF and love it!
@@AkamiChannel Speed, Ad Blocking, Tracker Blocking, Themes, Extensions, Sync.. You name it, Vivaldi has it, and by that I also mean a fast and accurate rendering engine.
Way more problems with "open source" software than proprietary ones. People really need to get off that hill and come back down to earth. If they think "open source" protects them from scammers, it doesn't. Most users are consumers, not developers, they would never be able to tell if they have the right source code and could end up using a bad open source version. They are 2 sides to every coin, I don't appreciate this TH-camr not talking about the downside of having something open source.
Vivaldi was created by Opera Presto authors, because new Opera owners killed Presto engine. It was one of the first and one of superior browser engines.
@John Smith They did not continue to develop the Presto engine it because it is a property of Opera Software ASA and distributing another browser with it would be illegal.
I used to use Vivaldi,, couple of years back, before FF Quantum. When I questioned the dev team, they parroted those lines you read exactly. Haven't used since FF got good again.
I think we need to clarify open as either unlocked or open as available. I think this is where the confusion comes from. For example, a taxi driver could leave their car open, but you can't use it unless it's on their terms. How this applies to code specifically in practice out in the real world can get pretty weird though. It's sort of like saying you can't use a language because a dictionary is copyrighted. What I mean is: Where is the line drawn realistically as apposed to arbitrarily?
I'm of the age that I had actually paid money back in the day to purchase Opera, it was so far ahead of everything out there. My main browser is Vivaldi today; I have yet to see all these features that Vivaldi has that any other browser duplicates without all the buggy and unstable plug-ins that other browsers have to try and replicate them, though, even having said that, if I could have the stability and features of Vivaldi with another browser, I'd happily bounce.
Calling it garbage just for having a small fraction of code which isn't open source is not really fair in my opinion. Nobody needs to recommend any software if they don't want to, but calling a software garbage just for having a particular license is extremely disrespectful towards its developers who put their time & effort in it in my opinion. Yes, Vivaldi is technically proprietary, but it really shouldn't be bashed just for that.
I learned Vivaldi wasn't open source recently and am considering moving to brave, but I like the Vivaldi sync feature and I don't think brave let's you create tab stacks and then tile them in a grid on a single window. If Brave can do these things I'll probably switch.
People have a bad habit of thinking not being open source is bad. That couldn't be further from the truth. Having a software open source means other 3rd parties can make changes to the code, this includes malicious actor. Vivaldi allowing people to audit the source code means anyone can verify if its secure, but also means no third party can run with the code and do malicious things with it. The term "open source" is a very misleading one in the community and things that are open source are not necessarily better.
I don't really bother with getting everything into OSS (though I tend to look for OSS if I can and support it - my own software is 99% of the time also OSS) but I hate it when people call everything OSS because it's free...
guess I fell for the meme. I installed vivaldi today and was about to migrate! This came out just in time. Don't know why so many people are shilling this over \g\
Amazing how bad or minimal most people read, if they do at all. It was indeed this that made me switch to Iridium for my Chromium related stuff. Thanks for the clarification!
Although It’s true that Vivaldi is proprietary software and it’s good that you cleared up this misunderstanding , but calling everything proprietary “garbage” really devalues your credibility as a tech savy guy, there are hard working developers behind that project( and every other proprietary software)and it does exactly what it is advertised to do, and if they are doing shady privacy stuff file a report and expose them but other than that, if they follow their privacy policy then I don’t see a problem, Open source software is awesome but don’t go around calling great programs “garbage” ,some of them are unbelievably good at what they do and if you don’t like their licenses don’t use em but don’t go around bashing them for no reason, companies and corporations need to make money, that’s why they exist, that’s why you’re getting paid in the first place, I think we’re all old enough to know that, take care.🤟🏼
I don't think you actually understand the argument of free software foundation. According to FSF, a selling a proprietary software is like selling a car to you but prohibiting you to repair, alter or customize it the way you like it. May be someone will be fine with it. But FSF is against this notion of prohibiting an end user to have control over a product.
OMG. Said perfectly. After watching this video I had to run to my computer to comment which is something I almost NEVER do. You have to wait until the very end of the video at about the 8:10 mark to hear him say "Vivaldi may be be a fantastic browser and if you want to use it, great", but to have to sit throughout the whole video and see on the screen "FACT: The Vivaldi browser is proprietary garbage" is extremely annoying. No, get out your dictionary. That is NOT a fact. That may be your opinion, but it is certainly NOT a fact. Having this on the screen during the video where you are making some very valid points unfortunately absolutely destroys your credibility even more than the people who keep insisting to you Vivaldi is open source.
I totally understand your point, but It's not like companies make software and then abandon them, they continue to support it and optimize it for long periods of time (in most cases), and I don't think that software can be compared to cars like that, because if a company releases the source code of a successful product, clones and modified copies are going to appear quickly and the company is gonna lose money fast, but you can do whatever you want to your car and the car's manufacturer's profits are not going to be affected by your modifications whatsoever.
@@SenthilBabuji I don't think you understand the OP's reply. I totally agree with him and I've been a hard core Linux user since 1995 and I'm also RHCE. To call all proprietary software "garbage" is ridiculous. As the OP said there's a considerable amount of "incredibly good" proprietary software that actually employs millions of people which in turn allows them to put food on the table. Here's a thought for you and DT. The very hardware you use on a daily basis including those IC's on the circuit boards you use have proprietary firmware (software) built in. Perhaps you should stop using them if you are totally against proprietary "garbage". Most of us who've been around since the 90's and who have used (and continue to use) Linux have all grown up and realised there is a world where both types of software can exist and coexist. I'm tired of seeing so many people new to Linux think they know everything about it and constantly bash good software and claim it to be "garbage" because it's proprietary.
@@samibenchaabane5910actually, you can't. Copying source like that is against copy right laws. Also there are patents for various software designs. One cannot just like that copy it and republish it. And piracy will anyways be there either it is open or closed. We need more stringent laws for thag.
Version 2.10 is available but newer versions (3.0 now) aren't. Im amazed. But is there possibility to fork old code? Like with aseprite and libresprite.
According to the EULA, nope. The Vivaldi staff made a legal paradox in the EULA, and it makes the legal situation more obscure when anyone tries to audit it.
Be aware that the open source releases of Vivaldi only are 4 months older than the closed source ones. I'd think twice whether that short lag is worth the effort of forking.
@@redo1122 As far as I understand, the BSD license allows closing the code of derived work, that's why it's often called a permissive license, as opposed to the GNU GPL that does not allow this, that's why it's defined as copyleft. So no, they really can't be sued for that. If it had any malicious features or stolen GPL code, then yes, you could technically sue them
I used Vivaldi for around 10 minutes. It's a good browser and I wish Firefox had some of the features (side view and the. Vertical tab bars) but I can live without them
I use Vivaldi's web panels feature a lot, and can't live without it. This prevents me from switching to a different browser. I don't know of any other browser or browser extensions that has this functionality. I've heard of Firefox Side View, but it was very disappointing. I can't set keybindings with Firefox Side View. Also, Firefox as a whole lacks keyboard shortcut customization, which is really really sad. Is Vivaldi really the only browser where you can customize the keyboard shortcuts?
@@jeetadityachatterjee6995 its heavier than something like palemoon or firefox but its alot more lightweight than any other chromium based browser . i use palemoon its a very good firefox fork . and yeah being chromium based = unusable for me its just like that but vivaldi is atleast the best of chromium based shit
Okay, but being open source isn't relevant... Is Vivaldi any good? That's the burning question. Seriously, Linux community, stop this hate against proprietary software. We will never be taken seriously by the larger PC community if we keep hating on proprietary and commercial software. And we certainly won't overtake Windows with that mindset.
Unfortunately, I have to use Google Docs for work. As bad as Firefox is at using Docs, Vivladi is way worse (which is hilarious given that it's based on Chromium whereas Firefox is not). So I'll stick with Firefox as literally the only browser that works well with Docs and isn't chrome.
I don't get the obsession about open source SW. It is a good idea, but when I tried to use anything open source, I had just worse experience and I don't have time to dead with that.
I wish they would go open source - the one thing about the makers of Vivaldi is that they try to invent and tinker with new stuff - both usefull and crappy. Open sourcing would allow more tinkering, and more innovation.
@@RP-kr2mg That depends on perspective, doesn't it? To you maybe a little more speed matters, to others that might not. The Firefox Quantum isn't really as bad as the old Firefox so it's definitely usable.
@@someoneyouveneverheardof You have a point. But if we get a little more real about browser market shares, then its only fair that we give a browser who has partnered with Duckduckgo among others, a good chance. If people are going to use a certain Chinese Opera, or Chrome or Edge over Firefox anyways, then why not project Brave and Vivaldi as viable alternatives. Afterall no one's perfect on Earth. Imo
Only reason I don't use Vivaldi is that it's based on Chrome and therefore part of the problem. Although I'm told Google has done underhanded things to Vivaldi.
I believe the term "Free Software" refers to the *liberties a software grants to its users,* while "Open Source" refers to the *source code being publicly available for review and contribution* by everyone. So these two terms are in fact talking about different things, hence why we say Free *and* Open Source.
@@negrastormentas2865 there's a lot of history behind it, OSI is technically just a rogue faction of Debian Free Software Group. All Free/Libre software is "Open source" but it might not be true the other way depending on how ESR is feeling. :]
as far as a program which you use everyday and on which you input personal information goes, any binary distributed without the source code is a piece of garbage
Your credentials? I loved Vivaldi at first, but Firefox upped their game big time recently. I also understand why DT, and chopcooey are saying it's garbage. You simply don't know what they're hiding in the code.
@@chopcooey does it matter if you dont get source code? Because most of linux tryhards dont EVER NEVER build anything....most linux retards are just semi-neckbeard tryhard cool-guy wannabees. Reason why linux has bit more users is when linux started to bloat up because every single thingie started to have gui and tools.For most people who use linux even installing without gui installer is a no-go. For average linux user it really doesnt matter if you would use windows or macOS, you still dont know anything besides helping tools and distros which installs everything for you. You can see it in this channel, just look up videos where this dude tries like BSD`s or tries source-based distros, struggle is real. Only decent way to move from windows to like linux is actually LEARN the system, not clicking boxes with your mouse and then refusing to use some distros because maybe your internet is not connected after install...buhahaha
@@jkarra2334 it matters a lot to have source code. Even if you are not a dev and you don't understand anything about code, if you know that source code is available, then you know that it can and will be scrutinized by someone competent even if that person is not yourself
@@chopcooey you miss my point. Average linux tryhard installs ubuntu. Yes, main and universe repos are free, but, and big but, in most cases average user would left out with useless machine if ubuntu would not courage you to install non-free blobs. Show me average daily-user who lives without like nvidia/amd drivers, without certain wlan drivers(like broadcom), without win32 codecs, without java, (gnash is shit), For that amount of non-free software most use even without they know its just retarded to refuse to use web browser because its proprietary.... First thing what distro like ubuntu offers you after clean install is non-free packages and yes, most install those without a hinch.. 😁
Aren't there some distros which come with Vivaldi as the default browser? Cause I don't remember myself installing it but I've definitely used it 1 or 2 times back when I was distrohopping
Yes some distros to come with Vivaldi installed, but not include 100% Free and Open Source Software. Many distors include proprietary drivers on their ISOs, also Manjaro offers you a choice to install Softmaker Free Office when you install (which is a freeware proprietary office suite) instead of LibreOffice (LibreOffice is also an option at install) .
I know that a lot of you here are in the OPEN SOURCE ONLY crowd but I just don't get it. Being closed source doesn't make something garbage. Vivaldi is the fastest and most customizable browser I have tried without going to something total stripped of features. That's just not my bag. I use PARSEC to game stream too and that's not open source but it works better than anything else out there. (PARSEC) It's free for me to use and doesn't steal my personal information to make money. Some companies want to make money off of their hard work. It doesn't make them all bad.
Yeah,.. it is proprietary and will use your data. It is a very good browser though, based on Chromium. Compared to other browser vendors it is quite benign. If any FOSS project would offer the same usability, I would use that instead.
Vivaldi is the only proprietary software I allow myself to use, simply because as a browser it is the only one that suits me today. It's highly customisable and has what we of old Opera days have always missed when Chrome rose as the dominant browser. To be fair, I don't know why many people prefer Firefox apart from the FOSS argument. It was my daily driver about 12 years ago, but they also drastically changed the browsing experience (around version 40 or something like that) and to me it just became utter shit. Did give it a try a few months ago, but it simply does not compare to Vivaldi in terms of usability features.
@@osumido Well assuming like most of people your most used software is your browser then you're almost only using propietary software in term of time ratio
@@osumido I was on the Vivaldi bandwagon for a while. Firefox recently upped their game and I'm back on it. PiP is better (not limited in size), doesn't interfere with downloading TH-cam videos. They fixed the YT issues. I loved Vivaldi for a bit, but I'm back on Firefox for a couple of weeks now.
Well, that's what open source meant before the free software foundation got it's grubby little hands on the term. It's because a lot of open source software back in the 90s was also free in the Stallman way that we even have the open source problem now. A confusion of term that meant different things.
@@AlucardNoir I prolly wasn't the only one to use the term, because I usually ain't, but I started saying "Freedom-Compliant" or "Freedom-Compatible" software instead. Longer, but less ambiguous. And while I don't use Stallman's language, the freedoms in question are certainly the same ones (use, share, study, improve).
@@fnjesusfreak to be fair, the same way stallman created the term free software and nobody really knew what he meant, nobody really knew what open source meant when the term was first coined. But when corporations realized it meant source available everything else went to the wayside. They had been looking for that Holly Grail for probably over a decade by the time. Even Stallman who was an early adopter of the term ended up repudiating the term. Now there are two camps when it comes to open source. The OSI and everybody else - hell, that's why FOSS exists in the first place. I think the real problem comes from the fact Netscape released their code before the OSI, their definition and the term were a thing. It's hard to claim your definition is the correct one when you're not actually the first to do what your definition said. Hell trolltech release the QT source code in 1995. That I think is the real problem, source code available programs that existed before the OSI and which usually didn't qualify as free software - which is why Stallman didn't much like the original source available QT license.
@@AlucardNoir I measure software liberty relative to GPL, generally. I personally prefer the UIUC license (which is in the BSD/X11 "copycenter" class of licenses).
Firefox fixed their TH-cam performance, got PiP without limited size, does the same sync, and doesn't try to prevent you from downloading YT videos. The speed dial doesn't accidentally lose sites when you accidentally hit it wrong. I've been back on Firefox a couple of weeks now and love it as I did Vivaldi.
As far as I know, Brave doesn't have web panels, like Vivaldi. Vivaldi has so many innovative features that no other browser seems to have. I can't switch away from Vivaldi because I use its innovative features. The web panels feature is my favorite. I can open up Google Translate or a dictionary in a web panel on the side of my screen using a keybinding. I've yet to find any other browser or browser extension that can give me this functionality. I've tried Firefox Side View, but I can't set keybindings with it, so it's pretty useless and inefficient. Besides, Firefox lacks keybinding customization :(
@Alexandre Lopes Brave takes your browsing and search results to make money with. You don't think they are going to sell ads and then share the revenue with you if they aren't collecting stuff from you do you???? As with almost anything, if you aren't paying for it, you are the client.
Depends on the version of Arco you install. In ArcoLinuxD, you can edit the installation scripts to install (or not install) some of the bloat that comes with Arco. By default though, it will install three browsers, six text editors (including proprietary Sublime), etc...because Erik Dubois uses all of those in his development work.
As a web developer, I needed to check my work using different browsers. -It doesn't mean I used them for any other purpose. I'll have multiple browsers installed on any OS I run with because some can do things others can't, and if your sole browser gets borked; have fun with that. So I have Vivaldi installed, but here I am in Firefox. I might trade Vivaldi for Chromium though.
I use Arch almost all the time because I like it more than anything, but I have been using use Vivaldi on Arch for about 5 months and I love it (used Navigator and then Firefox like forever and got very stale for me), I have a computer with windows to game on, I tried to game on linux only but its just not an option right now, I love all this FOSS movement and respect what they stand for but, if something is not working for me I just look for something that does and pay for it if I have to. what I dont understand is how in the hell do people want for the coders to make money if they cant get money for their work and craft? people dont donate all the time you know. I just dont get it. I mean your content is proprietary right? or maybe its open I dont know, you like youtube to pay you money for your hard work? and you like the patreon money right? that said I use what works for me and arch works for me 98% of the time the other 2% i need damned windows so I use it. I respect you and mean no offense as I love your channel and your content and agry with you 98% of the time.
This is the exact thing that is preventing me from switching away from Vivaldi. Also, anyone please don't reply with Firefox Side View. Side View is shit. You can't set keybindings with Side View. With Vivaldi web panels, you can set keybindings.
@@luceroalvarado9244 I'm sure many of these functions are available threw Chromium/Firefox extensions, and Tiling well where is the point when WM can tile for you ?
@@luceroalvarado9244 Stacking tabs was an annoying process needed just to tile (which I grew out of when I learned to use PiP for which Firefox implements it better as well as having tiling built in to many DEs). Firefox has keyboard shortcuts (All the ones I know so far are the same). Why bloat a web browser with mouse gestures for the few people that use them when there are multiple well rated extensions to use for them? The latest version of Firefox is amazing also, I actually prefer it now.
For the vast majority of people free software and open source software are used interchangeably. It's only the technically minded and purists that will know the distinction between free and open source.
And this proves that most programmers are extremely poor marketers.
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So, being open in the technical sense (= you can look into any part of the source) is not enough to be open source, being open in the legal sense is also a requirement.
Same way as Firefox lol. - Commission from embedded search engines. Firefox made bank from Google and turned around and told us we keep it alive through donations. They're still my favorite though.
I lately installed Vivaldi and it get's my pc stuck everytime, and have to restart. I had trouble with Google and Brave didn't work as I expected. It looks friendly, green-coloured, but it didn't feel right... thanks for yr vid!
I will always use FOSS when it meets my needs. Even when this is not the case, I will look seriously at a FOSS alternative. Unfortunately, in browsers, no alternative is good enough. So, I have been using Vivaldi as an alternative to Firefox for quite some time.
open source doesn't mean whether the licence is proprietary or not. there's proprietary open source stuff. vivaldi is open source in a sense since it's done in html/javascript, which you can view/edit. the binary itself might not be open source but that's mostly chromium
What I havent figured out is how to in mpv with youtube-dl, how do I set a default video resolition, but allow me to change the resolution with something like youtube-quality.lua. I can do either or.
Is it really? I have used Vivaldi in past for quite awhile, but never touched the customization... I know they have many features that firefox doesn't have, but for customization... You can pretty much make it look whatever you want, you can even make it looks like Safari if you wanted... But idk about Vivaldi, i never touch Vivaldi's customization
@@null2264 for example, you. Can make the UI a lot smaller than Firefox or Chrome UI such that the content is larger in the center. Also, you could split windows with multiple sites ( quartile and beyond)
Try the new Firefox version. I loved Vivaldi initially, but prefer the new Firefox. Unlimited PiP sizing, uses the same keyboard shortcuts I know, also does sync, doesn't suck on TH-cam anymore, and because it's not chromium based; it doesn't try to stop you from downloading from YT. Tiling can also be done in most DEs (I'm using it in Gnome).
@@jgj4430 That's pretty neat feature i would say, but I don't think i will using that very often... So at the end it's all about personal preference...
Vivaldi is the continuation of the old Opera Browser with Presto engine. They are from Norway. I don't think it's garbage. It's their own creation it's different, they don't want to be FOSS and i think this is fine, because freedom you know... Don't jump to conclusions too fast. Even Stallman can't go full Stallman...
What do you think about Mozilla, DT? The source code is open as well, but it's not under GPL or MIT. Do you think that flavors of open source has much difference?
just moved to galaxy tab s6 and calling it garbage is too much, tried every god damn browser including samsungs own, aint no browser is better than vivaldi on samsung DEX, and its amazing on pc as well, many features that i would otherwise use extensions for..is just here! and it looks beautiful!
Those of you saying that Vivaldi is great and awesome should understand how it was developed. (1) The underlying Engine is Chromium, Which means they didn't develop anything in the core, It's just Chromium. (2) Firefox is more stable IMO, I've been using it for years now. (3) What Vivaldi did is just add an entire React App(aka. UI for Website) over the Chromium browser which in my opinion is not that hard. (4) You can do what ever you want with Firefox source as long as you release it in GPL. (5) Whoever calls Vivaldi a hard work must be confused(or the normies). It's not hard to build React UI, Maybe 1 year at max. (6) If you can't see how the binaries are built by Vivaldi and you are not supposed to reverse engineer it then it means a lot of shady stuff is done under your nose. **I see all these normies here who do not give a shit about anything, They just want the new shiny thing which craps on them.** You can call me a linux fan boy or whatnot. But Vivaldi is definitely Garbage.
I honestly think they are great, while i do not use the browser cause its too bloated i admire them for release the source code even without being FOSS
Wait, seriously? You think any software that isn't free or open source is garbage? Damn. Im sorry. But that's a horrible way of thinking imo. Do you mean to say that all software except for a tiny fragment is garbage to you? Why are you so against non-FOSS software? What's so bad about people wanting to have ownership over their software?
Because consumers also want to own their own data. Proprietary software is impossible to verify it not collecting consumer data. And if Vivaldi's point is privacy because we can't trust the ads and trackers of the internet, we must trust Vivaldi being serious about privacy. The other thing, while proprietary software can generate billions in revenue, it doesn't advance the tech community. Why do you think there are so many web browsers? Because many web engines are open source. Why do you think most servers run BSD or Linux? Because serveradministrators and the tech community can verify its secure. Hell, I know a few tricks how to gain full access to a windows machine without a passsord without overwriting everything. I don't know a single way to do that with BSD or Linux. I'm not saying there are none, but because it is open source, everyone can contribute to it or point out security holes. And most people who find those holes will report them. Open source has done so many great things while proprietary software only made a few guys rich. Im fine if the microwave oven is closed source but I won't put my personal data in a browsers that may sell my data or does god knows what without my knowledge.
He said when there is an alternative. Of course, feel free to take ownership of your software and have it normally riddled with security vulnerabilities and only protected by "obscurity", but I'd rather have my computer; not your computer. Ironically free software is the only way you can own it.
@@theglowingone5643 WOW, you actually have no idea on what world you live. Might I suggest you look into what open source was before the Free software foundation got it's grubby little hands on it? Or why Stallman hated the term.
That's not true. I just downloaded Vivaldi and on launch it didn't ask me for any permissions whatsoever. It was only when I tried to download a file when it asked me to grant it access to my storage. Until a feature that requires a certain permission is used, the browser doesn't ask for it.
Lots of butt-hurt comments around here.. At the end of the day, this is how things will always roll: 1. This is DTs channel, and he can pretty much post anything he wants to, so long as it adheres to YTs guideliness. 2. You are not obliged to agree nor to disagree with what DT has posted. 3. You, having full control of your own faculties, are your own person. Use whatever software, OS, app or game that you like. If you still feel butt-hurt that the content of the video is an affront to you or your choices, then man.. find something else to do, for your sanity's sake.. There is more to life than arguing online with things that will not always sway to your favor.
It is sad that proprietary software of the past is better in terms of privacy than most of today's free/open-source software. It is enough to look at old Opera 12.x and current Firefox. When I start my old Opera, it doesn't try to connect anywhere. When I launch non-Librefoxed Firefox - it connects to many addresses immediately.
"Proprietary garbage"? that's kinda rude description. There is closed-source software that is actually really good. That's why people try to make opensourced counterparts that will work the same. Regarding Vivaldi - the core used is open source - Chromium. GUI part is closed.
Since Spotify is a paid service that somewhat supports the artists i have a hard time seeing that the application (or one like it) could be made free and open source. I don't think they would like to make ripping the music any easier. TLDR; Would be a strange business model.
Vivaldi is my preferred browser. I don’t care if it’s not open source. I have it installed on my fedora and it’s great. Prefer it over chrome. I’m not doing business with google if I don’t have to. It’s plays videos right out of the box. Chromium doesent do that. Vivaldi is the core dev team that made opera. Opera sold out to the Chinese (literally) so the devs left and created Vivaldi.
![เจ็บที่ยังฮัก - ม่อน วรวิทย์ [ Official Mv ] จอนนี่มิวสิค](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/KALIGSRSjFs/mqdefault.jpg)
You're right about it being proprietary, and I certainly can't fault you for not being interested, but I wish you wouldn't call it garbage. It's an excellent browser, and I'm hoping they either make it open source (I've heard there's been some debate amongst the developers), or it inspires other projects to up their game
Those who never develop things on their own will easily call other products garbage because they cannot value the efforts of others.
The way he said it implied that it was lumped together with all other proprietary software (which is garbage to him). In the end he commented about how it could be good and if you're happy with it.The thing is though Firefox got a hell of a lot better recently. I loved Vivaldi at first, but I'm back on FF and loving it. In ways, it's better than Vivaldi!
True that. Vivaldi is one of the only real privacy focussed browsers other than Brave (which does shady stuff and gets caight regularly). And here we are on a Linux channel bashing it. Sad really
@@madthumbs1564 Has it? Firefox was my browser of choice for over a decade, but I've barely touched it lately outside of their mobile app (which is still better than Vivaldi's). I'll have to play around with it some
And yeah, I appreciated that bit at the end and could've overlooked his earlier comment, but the FACT bit at the bottom really seemed to really irked me
@@RP-kr2mg Well, nothing closed source can ever be really privacy-focused from a consumer perspective, even if it thoroughly does protect privacy under the hood..
I thought everyone knew Vivaldi was proprietary software, It was developed from Opera web browser when Opera decided to move to the Chromium engine and one of the main developers wanted to keep the original features of Opera
@zizzy Mate that wouldn't surprise me at all, Chinese get ownership of everything, at least here in Australia anyway.
@Alexander Glavan Vivaldi was founded under the Opera company, Quote: "Vivaldi began as a virtual community website that replaced My Opera, which was shut down by Opera Software in March 2014" I agree Vivaldi is is not connected to Opera these days and is a far better browser(even if it uses the chromium engine) than Opera web browser, its still proprietary software tho', nothing wrong with that in my opinion either , but the fact the remains the same as DT said, its proprietary software....
They have only released the source of older versions, so you can't even audit the program you're running. For all you know the code is completely different.
Well, you can run the old version. They're not that far behind at all in terms of features. I think it's a decent "meet you half way" for a company which wants to be closed source.
@@BlommaBaumbart Sure but then you'll always lag behind and probably have more bugs than the newer versions
@@kris10an64 Indeed. Though as Vivaldi isn't usually that buggy, I think that's quite sufferable if you feel you absolutely MUST have both Vivaldi and open source.
@@BlommaBaumbart I don't see a reason to use vivaldi when there are much better open source browsers out there.
Kris10an Vivaldi is great because its a got a number of built in productivity features I can’t really find elsewhere. It supports in tab tiling, which of course can be done with a window Tiling manager, but there are some use cases when its far more convenient. It’s also got notes, a pomodoro timer, an extremely customizable UI out of the box, etc. But i get that people want to use open source and I use as much as I can, but I’m also not so dedicated that I’m going to not use something that’s super convenient. I would use another browser in a heart beat if I could find something that lets me do tabs on the left and tiling though.
I believe the confusion comes from the fact that it's based on Chromium, so it's assumed the project must be at least mostly open, while ignoring Chrome itself is Chromium+Proprietary Garbage.
Even Chromium is not packaged on some of the fully free distros due to some licensing ambiguity and people claiming the project is too big for any one person to have audited it and made sure it's all really free software. Parabola has refused to package even ungoogled-chromium for years now. Guix decided someone had made them believe it was free, so they packaged it a while back, then the other free software distros attacked them and tried to say Guix was not free anymore. It's a messy situation.
@@SoundToxin Chromium itself is open source, but the problem is the optimization of many web development SDK mostly optimizes their performance in Blink web engine, so this claim has been spread by Firefox fanbase and actually the hardcore free software fanbase reject Chromium and/or any other open-source fork.
Actually, with Firefox and other forks doesn't have the same criteria. Many of these Firefox haters that ditch the Firefox forks doesn't understand the relevance that haves Abrowser, Parabola Iceweasel and Icecat, which actually audits most of the implementations that puts in every new release of Firefox.
Very good “proprietary software” even though privacy is questionable
The same happens to Opera people claim its open source cause part of it is Chromium-based.
The confusion comes from Stallman's camp slowly co-opting the term open source and chancing it's meaning from source available to free in the Stallman sense. There's a reason Stallman didn't like the phrases open source and free and open source software. Software like Vivaldi that is open source but not FREE is that reason.
free is not the same as opensource... eventhough it often enough goes hand in hand
This can be confusing. I think urugulu was referring to the word "free" as price (gratis); while Richard is obviously talking about "free" as in freedom (libre).
In french, its a lot simpler there's free of charge as "gratuit" and free like freedom as "libre".
Free software.
I can't use anything other than Vivaldi anymore. Vivaldi has amazing features no other browser seems to have. Especially the web panels are the best feature of Vivaldi.
I can open up Google Translate or a dictionary with a keybind in a web panel. In no other browser can I do this exact thing. If you know any browser or (open source) browser extension that I can do this with, PLEASE give me a reply. I've tried Firefox Side View, but I can't set keybindings with it, so it's basically useless to me.
It can be done very easily with a window manager with any browser of your choice. Web panel is a redundant feature that WMs can already do and that too in a much better way. Though, it may not be very easy to set up, it is just much much better.
@@SenthilBabuji that's actually a really interesting idea. I might look into it.
Imagine the possibilities. Pressing a keybind and typing in a word in something like dmenu, and it then looking it up in a dictionary. Hmm.
@@username4471 I have scripts that opens web tools into layouts I have defined and switched to them. If already open it just switches to those layouts. Also I can combine this with other apps that are not necessarily browser based. The possibilities are just endless.
This is why I almost exclusively use the term __Libre__ and __FLOSS__ when talking about free software, and __Gratis__ when talking about freeware.
Those two words really should be more common. Peoeple keep making excuses as to why it would be difficult for English speakers to understand quickly, whilst companies are taking advantage of people saying their software is "open source" but never mention if it's actually not "free" as in "libre".
If you just say __"libre as in liberty, freedom"__, most English, non-romantic (Spanish, French, etc) speakers will get it almost instantly. The same is with __"Gratis"__.
There are people who still think _open source_ also means _libre_.
As a Spanish speaker I can confirm that those terms are excellent in separating the mixed ideas of "free"
Like Vivaldi, Windows 10 is also open source now. Microsoft published the Windows Calculator source code.
That's not much.
Vivaldi is closer to if Microsoft published the full source code of Windows 98, but left out Internet Explorer 4 and it's ActiveX shell.
And I like Windows 95's shell much better anywaysa.
Thank you, Derek. Back when I used Windows (over 12 years ago) I did not know the difference between freeware and open source.
And if you believe what DT said in the video above then you still don't.
Honestly give me a UI as minimal and workable as Vivaldi and I shall switch in a second. Qute or min browsers don't support extensions or have some big missing features that Vivaldi does not. It's so minimal and perfectly usable, I've been loving it!
It's minimal yet really feature complete, it has a lot of unique features that are genuinely relevant and usefull. If I come across any FOSS browser that does it as well as Vivaldi, I'm not gonna be fanboying, I'll seriously consider switching.
Thanks for the video, DT. I think that the first step to get users into libre software is to make "normal" users aware that there is software beyond MS and their applications like IE, word and Excel even if they use proprietary software in the first place. Then the users can learn about free and open source software. The power users are easy to get onboard but I have the regular users in mind. Just my two cents...thanks again for your content.
Freeware usually means free of charge, within the narrow limits we define.
I really love the functionality of Vivaldi - it has features that I have not seen any other browser do and their focus seems to be on actually trying to invent new features. If there is an open source alternative to that, I'd sure love it, but the features do test my open source faith (and again, the fact that they actually try to invent new features, I am a huge fan of that, even if a lot of them are poorly implemented, or just plain useless).
It is a project that I follow, use and naively hope will grow and bring me some tiny but new features to tinker with.
I kinda agree with you. I totally understand why people would not use Vivaldi out of principle, and if it was not for how great of a browser Vivaldi is I would do the same. But the fact is that I have not seen any FOSS browser do it as well as Vivaldi, and I really regret that. Like you said, Vivaldi has many novel and genuinely useful features that are absent from pretty much all other browsers, and it also has amazing configurability that is consistent with it's features, which cannot be said of a lot of browsers in my opinion. I wholeheartedly support the FOSS movement and Open Source Initiative, but I'm also human and I have my own ways in which I am willing to make compromises. Favouring Vivaldi's great and unique features in spite of it being closed-source and proprietary is one such compromise I am deciding to make. If I come across any trully FOSS browser that does it as well as Vivaldi, you won't see me fanboying over Vivaldi, I'll seriously consider switching.
@@HectaSpyrit hi! Your explanation mirrors my entire view on this browser. It's been a year since your comment, what browser are you using now?
@@himabimdimwim vivaldi on arch
The only proprietary software I use, since 1993, is OS/2.
What is that?
@olaf kon Windows 2?
You should try ArcaOS, it's a good successor to that
Vidaldi is one of the best browsers I have ever used, and I have used many since the first Netscape Navigator.
What is good about it?
@@AkamiChannel placebo maybe?
@@AkamiChannel That's difficult to put into a tweet length line. It's good. You'd have to really read up on the thing, or try it out.
FireFox fixed their shit. No longer any trouble on YT, better PiP, syncs like Vivaldi, and doesn't try to stop you from downloading YT videos. -I'm back on FF and love it!
@@AkamiChannel Speed, Ad Blocking, Tracker Blocking, Themes, Extensions, Sync.. You name it, Vivaldi has it, and by that I also mean a fast and accurate rendering engine.
Its not open source but its also not garbage
Way more problems with "open source" software than proprietary ones. People really need to get off that hill and come back down to earth. If they think "open source" protects them from scammers, it doesn't. Most users are consumers, not developers, they would never be able to tell if they have the right source code and could end up using a bad open source version.
They are 2 sides to every coin, I don't appreciate this TH-camr not talking about the downside of having something open source.
Vivaldi was created by Opera Presto authors, because new Opera owners killed Presto engine. It was one of the first and one of superior browser engines.
@John Smith They did not continue to develop the Presto engine it because it is a property of Opera Software ASA and distributing another browser with it would be illegal.
I used to use Vivaldi,, couple of years back, before FF Quantum. When I questioned the dev team, they parroted those lines you read exactly. Haven't used since FF got good again.
I think we need to clarify open as either unlocked or open as available. I think this is where the confusion comes from. For example, a taxi driver could leave their car open, but you can't use it unless it's on their terms. How this applies to code specifically in practice out in the real world can get pretty weird though. It's sort of like saying you can't use a language because a dictionary is copyrighted. What I mean is: Where is the line drawn realistically as apposed to arbitrarily?
I'm of the age that I had actually paid money back in the day to purchase Opera, it was so far ahead of everything out there. My main browser is Vivaldi today; I have yet to see all these features that Vivaldi has that any other browser duplicates without all the buggy and unstable plug-ins that other browsers have to try and replicate them, though, even having said that, if I could have the stability and features of Vivaldi with another browser, I'd happily bounce.
Calling it garbage just for having a small fraction of code which isn't open source is not really fair in my opinion. Nobody needs to recommend any software if they don't want to, but calling a software garbage just for having a particular license is extremely disrespectful towards its developers who put their time & effort in it in my opinion.
Yes, Vivaldi is technically proprietary, but it really shouldn't be bashed just for that.
Based 1000 percent.
Free non open source software is some of the worst software to use. It's the primary cause of spyware.
I learned Vivaldi wasn't open source recently and am considering moving to brave, but I like the Vivaldi sync feature and I don't think brave let's you create tab stacks and then tile them in a grid on a single window. If Brave can do these things I'll probably switch.
People have a bad habit of thinking not being open source is bad. That couldn't be further from the truth. Having a software open source means other 3rd parties can make changes to the code, this includes malicious actor.
Vivaldi allowing people to audit the source code means anyone can verify if its secure, but also means no third party can run with the code and do malicious things with it. The term "open source" is a very misleading one in the community and things that are open source are not necessarily better.
Don't.
Ethics are good enough to choose features first
I don't really bother with getting everything into OSS (though I tend to look for OSS if I can and support it - my own software is 99% of the time also OSS) but I hate it when people call everything OSS because it's free...
There are some people who want every software to be free despite of the efforts made by a bunch of smart people.
guess I fell for the meme. I installed vivaldi today and was about to migrate! This came out just in time. Don't know why so many people are shilling this over \g\
I think refusing to run anything just because it's not open source is falling for memes even more.
@@xthebumpx I run a lot of propietary soft. But when there's a lot of free alternatives it doesn't make sense.
@@xthebumpx well it's ONE of the reason we Linux users run Linux
@@heroe1486 Noooooooooooooooooooooo. Just for the infinite possibilities!
Could you please try google-chrome? It is freeware! Give it a try!
No.
obviously. this was irony
@@DanielBlieb Ok.
Amazing how bad or minimal most people read, if they do at all. It was indeed this that made me switch to Iridium for my Chromium related stuff. Thanks for the clarification!
Although It’s true that Vivaldi is proprietary software and it’s good that you cleared up this misunderstanding , but calling everything proprietary “garbage” really devalues your credibility as a tech savy guy, there are hard working developers behind that project( and every other proprietary software)and it does exactly what it is advertised to do, and if they are doing shady privacy stuff file a report and expose them but other than that, if they follow their privacy policy then I don’t see a problem, Open source software is awesome but don’t go around calling great programs “garbage” ,some of them are unbelievably good at what they do and if you don’t like their licenses don’t use em but don’t go around bashing them for no reason, companies and corporations need to make money, that’s why they exist, that’s why you’re getting paid in the first place, I think we’re all old enough to know that, take care.🤟🏼
I don't think you actually understand the argument of free software foundation. According to FSF, a selling a proprietary software is like selling a car to you but prohibiting you to repair, alter or customize it the way you like it. May be someone will be fine with it. But FSF is against this notion of prohibiting an end user to have control over a product.
OMG. Said perfectly. After watching this video I had to run to my computer to comment which is something I almost NEVER do. You have to wait until the very end of the video at about the 8:10 mark to hear him say "Vivaldi may be be a fantastic browser and if you want to use it, great", but to have to sit throughout the whole video and see on the screen "FACT: The Vivaldi browser is proprietary garbage" is extremely annoying. No, get out your dictionary. That is NOT a fact. That may be your opinion, but it is certainly NOT a fact. Having this on the screen during the video where you are making some very valid points unfortunately absolutely destroys your credibility even more than the people who keep insisting to you Vivaldi is open source.
I totally understand your point, but It's not like companies make software and then abandon them, they continue to support it and optimize it for long periods of time (in most cases), and I don't think that software can be compared to cars like that, because if a company releases the source code of a successful product, clones and modified copies are going to appear quickly and the company is gonna lose money fast, but you can do whatever you want to your car and the car's manufacturer's profits are not going to be affected by your modifications whatsoever.
@@SenthilBabuji I don't think you understand the OP's reply. I totally agree with him and I've been a hard core Linux user since 1995 and I'm also RHCE. To call all proprietary software "garbage" is ridiculous. As the OP said there's a considerable amount of "incredibly good" proprietary software that actually employs millions of people which in turn allows them to put food on the table. Here's a thought for you and DT. The very hardware you use on a daily basis including those IC's on the circuit boards you use have proprietary firmware (software) built in. Perhaps you should stop using them if you are totally against proprietary "garbage". Most of us who've been around since the 90's and who have used (and continue to use) Linux have all grown up and realised there is a world where both types of software can exist and coexist. I'm tired of seeing so many people new to Linux think they know everything about it and constantly bash good software and claim it to be "garbage" because it's proprietary.
@@samibenchaabane5910actually, you can't. Copying source like that is against copy right laws. Also there are patents for various software designs. One cannot just like that copy it and republish it. And piracy will anyways be there either it is open or closed. We need more stringent laws for thag.
Version 2.10 is available but newer versions (3.0 now) aren't. Im amazed. But is there possibility to fork old code? Like with aseprite and libresprite.
According to the EULA, nope. The Vivaldi staff made a legal paradox in the EULA, and it makes the legal situation more obscure when anyone tries to audit it.
@@Eliotime3000 but technically its bds license? Can't they be sued for not allowing tinkering with BDS licenced code?
Be aware that the open source releases of Vivaldi only are 4 months older than the closed source ones. I'd think twice whether that short lag is worth the effort of forking.
@@redo1122 As far as I understand, the BSD license allows closing the code of derived work, that's why it's often called a permissive license, as opposed to the GNU GPL that does not allow this, that's why it's defined as copyleft.
So no, they really can't be sued for that. If it had any malicious features or stolen GPL code, then yes, you could technically sue them
For some reason, youtubers are hyping that a COMMUNITY SPIN of Manjaro comes with Vivaldi like it’s a big mark against Firefox.
I used Vivaldi for around 10 minutes. It's a good browser and I wish Firefox had some of the features (side view and the. Vertical tab bars) but I can live without them
Yeah to be honest the best browser in terms of ui . it just excels
@@ichaa3tech it being based on chromium tho is a deal breaker for me. I like to use more than just a web browser on my computer
I use Vivaldi's web panels feature a lot, and can't live without it. This prevents me from switching to a different browser. I don't know of any other browser or browser extensions that has this functionality. I've heard of Firefox Side View, but it was very disappointing. I can't set keybindings with Firefox Side View. Also, Firefox as a whole lacks keyboard shortcut customization, which is really really sad. Is Vivaldi really the only browser where you can customize the keyboard shortcuts?
@@jeetadityachatterjee6995 its heavier than something like palemoon or firefox but its alot more lightweight than any other chromium based browser . i use palemoon its a very good firefox fork . and yeah being chromium based = unusable for me its just like that but vivaldi is atleast the best of chromium based shit
@@username4471 use a tiling wm and you dont have to do it inside vivaldi
Okay, but being open source isn't relevant... Is Vivaldi any good? That's the burning question.
Seriously, Linux community, stop this hate against proprietary software. We will never be taken seriously by the larger PC community if we keep hating on proprietary and commercial software. And we certainly won't overtake Windows with that mindset.
you clearly did not listen what he told in the video.
Go to 08:14 and listen for just 15 seconds. Now get the ... out with your non freedom.
@@MegaDesalvo Clearly you missed the text on the bottom stating
"FACT: The Vivaldi browser is propriety garbage"
Unfortunately, I have to use Google Docs for work. As bad as Firefox is at using Docs, Vivladi is way worse (which is hilarious given that it's based on Chromium whereas Firefox is not). So I'll stick with Firefox as literally the only browser that works well with Docs and isn't chrome.
I never noticed that Vivaldi handles Google Docs any worse than Chrome or Firefox, although I don't use Docs on a daily basis for work.
@@HectaSpyrit I don't notice a difference and use it a lot for debate and stuff.
what about libre office
I don't get the obsession about open source SW. It is a good idea, but when I tried to use anything open source, I had just worse experience and I don't have time to dead with that.
I wish they would go open source - the one thing about the makers of Vivaldi is that they try to invent and tinker with new stuff - both usefull and crappy. Open sourcing would allow more tinkering, and more innovation.
I told everyone that Vivaldi is proprietary. No one believed me!
Doesn't matter. Even edge is better than the bs called Firefox...
@@RP-kr2mg That depends on perspective, doesn't it? To you maybe a little more speed matters, to others that might not. The Firefox Quantum isn't really as bad as the old Firefox so it's definitely usable.
@@someoneyouveneverheardof You have a point. But if we get a little more real about browser market shares, then its only fair that we give a browser who has partnered with Duckduckgo among others, a good chance. If people are going to use a certain Chinese Opera, or Chrome or Edge over Firefox anyways, then why not project Brave and Vivaldi as viable alternatives. Afterall no one's perfect on Earth. Imo
@Omega We know where you live...
@@RP-kr2mg I use Brave too
Only reason I don't use Vivaldi is that it's based on Chrome and therefore part of the problem. Although I'm told Google has done underhanded things to Vivaldi.
I mean, to whom has Google *not* done underhanded things to?
Thank you DT. Vivaldi forks but does not want to be forked.
Its true there is a different between freeware and free open source software.
Doesn't Stallman differentiate opens source from free software ?
I believe the term "Free Software" refers to the *liberties a software grants to its users,* while "Open Source" refers to the *source code being publicly available for review and contribution* by everyone. So these two terms are in fact talking about different things, hence why we say Free *and* Open Source.
@@HectaSpyrit according to the FSF, free software must be open source, no? Its one of the requirements.
@@HectaSpyrit Free software definition includes all the parts of open source so saying both is redunant.
@@negrastormentas2865 there's a lot of history behind it, OSI is technically just a rogue faction of Debian Free Software Group.
All Free/Libre software is "Open source" but it might not be true the other way depending on how ESR is feeling. :]
Proprietary? Sure. Garbage? Hardly.
as far as a program which you use everyday and on which you input personal information goes, any binary distributed without the source code is a piece of garbage
Your credentials? I loved Vivaldi at first, but Firefox upped their game big time recently. I also understand why DT, and chopcooey are saying it's garbage. You simply don't know what they're hiding in the code.
@@chopcooey does it matter if you dont get source code? Because most of linux tryhards dont EVER NEVER build anything....most linux retards are just semi-neckbeard tryhard cool-guy wannabees.
Reason why linux has bit more users is when linux started to bloat up because every single thingie started to have gui and tools.For most people who use linux even installing without gui installer is a no-go.
For average linux user it really doesnt matter if you would use windows or macOS, you still dont know anything besides helping tools and distros which installs everything for you.
You can see it in this channel, just look up videos where this dude tries like BSD`s or tries source-based distros, struggle is real.
Only decent way to move from windows to like linux is actually LEARN the system, not clicking boxes with your mouse and then refusing to use some distros because maybe your internet is not connected after install...buhahaha
@@jkarra2334 it matters a lot to have source code. Even if you are not a dev and you don't understand anything about code, if you know that source code is available, then you know that it can and will be scrutinized by someone competent even if that person is not yourself
@@chopcooey you miss my point. Average linux tryhard installs ubuntu. Yes, main and universe repos are free, but, and big but, in most cases average user would left out with useless machine if ubuntu would not courage you to install non-free blobs.
Show me average daily-user who lives without like nvidia/amd drivers, without certain wlan drivers(like broadcom), without win32 codecs, without java, (gnash is shit),
For that amount of non-free software most use even without they know its just retarded to refuse to use web browser because its proprietary....
First thing what distro like ubuntu offers you after clean install is non-free packages and yes, most install those without a hinch.. 😁
Aren't there some distros which come with Vivaldi as the default browser? Cause I don't remember myself installing it but I've definitely used it 1 or 2 times back when I was distrohopping
Yes some distros to come with Vivaldi installed, but not include 100% Free and Open Source Software. Many distors include proprietary drivers on their ISOs, also Manjaro offers you a choice to install Softmaker Free Office when you install (which is a freeware proprietary office suite) instead of LibreOffice (LibreOffice is also an option at install) .
I know that a lot of you here are in the OPEN SOURCE ONLY crowd but I just don't get it. Being closed source doesn't make something garbage. Vivaldi is the fastest and most customizable browser I have tried without going to something total stripped of features. That's just not my bag. I use PARSEC to game stream too and that's not open source but it works better than anything else out there. (PARSEC) It's free for me to use and doesn't steal my personal information to make money. Some companies want to make money off of their hard work. It doesn't make them all bad.
Yeah,.. it is proprietary and will use your data. It is a very good browser though, based on Chromium. Compared to other browser vendors it is quite benign. If any FOSS project would offer the same usability, I would use that instead.
Vivaldi is the only proprietary software I allow myself to use, simply because as a browser it is the only one that suits me today. It's highly customisable and has what we of old Opera days have always missed when Chrome rose as the dominant browser.
To be fair, I don't know why many people prefer Firefox apart from the FOSS argument. It was my daily driver about 12 years ago, but they also drastically changed the browsing experience (around version 40 or something like that) and to me it just became utter shit. Did give it a try a few months ago, but it simply does not compare to Vivaldi in terms of usability features.
@@osumido Well assuming like most of people your most used software is your browser then you're almost only using propietary software in term of time ratio
@@osumido I was on the Vivaldi bandwagon for a while. Firefox recently upped their game and I'm back on it. PiP is better (not limited in size), doesn't interfere with downloading TH-cam videos. They fixed the YT issues. I loved Vivaldi for a bit, but I'm back on Firefox for a couple of weeks now.
Some people interpret "open source" to mean source-available. The term suffers from the same issue as "free software".
Well, that's what open source meant before the free software foundation got it's grubby little hands on the term. It's because a lot of open source software back in the 90s was also free in the Stallman way that we even have the open source problem now. A confusion of term that meant different things.
@@AlucardNoir I prolly wasn't the only one to use the term, because I usually ain't, but I started saying "Freedom-Compliant" or "Freedom-Compatible" software instead. Longer, but less ambiguous. And while I don't use Stallman's language, the freedoms in question are certainly the same ones (use, share, study, improve).
@@fnjesusfreak to be fair, the same way stallman created the term free software and nobody really knew what he meant, nobody really knew what open source meant when the term was first coined. But when corporations realized it meant source available everything else went to the wayside. They had been looking for that Holly Grail for probably over a decade by the time. Even Stallman who was an early adopter of the term ended up repudiating the term. Now there are two camps when it comes to open source. The OSI and everybody else - hell, that's why FOSS exists in the first place.
I think the real problem comes from the fact Netscape released their code before the OSI, their definition and the term were a thing. It's hard to claim your definition is the correct one when you're not actually the first to do what your definition said. Hell trolltech release the QT source code in 1995. That I think is the real problem, source code available programs that existed before the OSI and which usually didn't qualify as free software - which is why Stallman didn't much like the original source available QT license.
@@AlucardNoir I measure software liberty relative to GPL, generally. I personally prefer the UIUC license (which is in the BSD/X11 "copycenter" class of licenses).
Hey, why don't you give Google Chrome a try ?
no.
Well I guess I like " garbage".
No it's not open source, otherwise some other browser would rip off their work .
Firefox fixed their TH-cam performance, got PiP without limited size, does the same sync, and doesn't try to prevent you from downloading YT videos. The speed dial doesn't accidentally lose sites when you accidentally hit it wrong. I've been back on Firefox a couple of weeks now and love it as I did Vivaldi.
There's nothing wrong with ripping off work. Innovation should be open. Fuck patents.
@@username4471 ok. You invent and send me the royalties.
I'd recommend watching an interview that Techlore did with Vivaldi's CEO - Reclaim Control with Vivaldi Browser! - Jón von Tetzchner Interview.
What are your thoughts on Midori?
Man you really had to explain that???? Somebody should give you this wasted time back.
Brave > Vivaldi by a long shot
As far as I know, Brave doesn't have web panels, like Vivaldi.
Vivaldi has so many innovative features that no other browser seems to have. I can't switch away from Vivaldi because I use its innovative features.
The web panels feature is my favorite. I can open up Google Translate or a dictionary in a web panel on the side of my screen using a keybinding. I've yet to find any other browser or browser extension that can give me this functionality.
I've tried Firefox Side View, but I can't set keybindings with it, so it's pretty useless and inefficient. Besides, Firefox lacks keybinding customization :(
Brave is spyware
Richard Northwood Proof it. Send the line in the code on GitHub.
I use Brave only on my phone (limited data).
@Alexandre Lopes Brave takes your browsing and search results to make money with. You don't think they are going to sell ads and then share the revenue with you if they aren't collecting stuff from you do you???? As with almost anything, if you aren't paying for it, you are the client.
Fuck. Now I have to change browser again
The truth is you cant go 100% FOSS at least it happens on me. The only proprietary software i used is substance painter.
DT, don’t you use Arcolinux? Vivaldi comes standard with Arcolinux.
Depends on the version of Arco you install. In ArcoLinuxD, you can edit the installation scripts to install (or not install) some of the bloat that comes with Arco. By default though, it will install three browsers, six text editors (including proprietary Sublime), etc...because Erik Dubois uses all of those in his development work.
As a web developer, I needed to check my work using different browsers. -It doesn't mean I used them for any other purpose. I'll have multiple browsers installed on any OS I run with because some can do things others can't, and if your sole browser gets borked; have fun with that. So I have Vivaldi installed, but here I am in Firefox. I might trade Vivaldi for Chromium though.
I use Arch almost all the time because I like it more than anything, but I have been using use Vivaldi on Arch for about 5 months and I love it (used Navigator and then Firefox like forever and got very stale for me), I have a computer with windows to game on, I tried to game on linux only but its just not an option right now, I love all this FOSS movement and respect what they stand for but, if something is not working for me I just look for something that does and pay for it if I have to. what I dont understand is how in the hell do people want for the coders to make money if they cant get money for their work and craft? people dont donate all the time you know. I just dont get it. I mean your content is proprietary right? or maybe its open I dont know, you like youtube to pay you money for your hard work? and you like the patreon money right? that said I use what works for me and arch works for me 98% of the time the other 2% i need damned windows so I use it. I respect you and mean no offense as I love your channel and your content and agry with you 98% of the time.
Another "i use arch btw." comment 😂
If only other browsers had side panels for tabs as well.
This is the exact thing that is preventing me from switching away from Vivaldi.
Also, anyone please don't reply with Firefox Side View. Side View is shit. You can't set keybindings with Side View.
With Vivaldi web panels, you can set keybindings.
Tab stacks, tiling view, keyboard shortcuts, mouse gestures.... yeah, propietary but amazing
@@luceroalvarado9244 I'm sure many of these functions are available threw Chromium/Firefox extensions, and Tiling well where is the point when WM can tile for you ?
@@heroe1486 Everyone is not perfect like you. We are mere humans using Kubuntu
@@luceroalvarado9244 Stacking tabs was an annoying process needed just to tile (which I grew out of when I learned to use PiP for which Firefox implements it better as well as having tiling built in to many DEs). Firefox has keyboard shortcuts (All the ones I know so far are the same). Why bloat a web browser with mouse gestures for the few people that use them when there are multiple well rated extensions to use for them? The latest version of Firefox is amazing also, I actually prefer it now.
For the vast majority of people free software and open source software are used interchangeably. It's only the technically minded and purists that will know the distinction between free and open source.
And this proves that most programmers are extremely poor marketers.
So, being open in the technical sense (= you can look into any part of the source) is not enough to be open source, being open in the legal sense is also a requirement.
hi DT would you please say a bit about free-BSD and differences with linux
thanks
That could help: helpdeskgeek.com/linux-tips/bsd-vs-linux-the-basic-differences/
LOL when I saw the title, cause I remember that Vivaldi comment on the QuteBrowser video 🤣
That's why stallman calls it "libre" like in spanish, maybe we can also use liberty soft? lol
I’m still using Firefox but it’s getting on my nerves.
Empty The Trash thank you 👍
does anyone even know how they make money? makes u think....
Same way as Firefox lol. - Commission from embedded search engines. Firefox made bank from Google and turned around and told us we keep it alive through donations. They're still my favorite though.
What mad thumbs said, plus all those corporate bookmarks on a fresh install, but those are easy to delete and don't return on updates
Search engine royalties and the bookmarks it ships with.
EDIT. some of us do more than just think, we act
I lately installed Vivaldi and it get's my pc stuck everytime, and have to restart. I had trouble with Google and Brave didn't work as I expected. It looks friendly, green-coloured, but it didn't feel right... thanks for yr vid!
Yeah, chromeOS is also based on Gentoo. And OSX on freeBSD
I will always use FOSS when it meets my needs. Even when this is not the case, I will look seriously at a FOSS alternative. Unfortunately, in browsers, no alternative is good enough. So, I have been using Vivaldi as an alternative to Firefox for quite some time.
open source doesn't mean whether the licence is proprietary or not. there's proprietary open source stuff. vivaldi is open source in a sense since it's done in html/javascript, which you can view/edit. the binary itself might not be open source but that's mostly chromium
What I havent figured out is how to in mpv with youtube-dl, how do I set a default video resolition, but allow me to change the resolution with something like youtube-quality.lua. I can do either or.
I accept Vivaldi is proprietary software. They have better customizations and better features compared to Firefox.
Is it really? I have used Vivaldi in past for quite awhile, but never touched the customization... I know they have many features that firefox doesn't have, but for customization... You can pretty much make it look whatever you want, you can even make it looks like Safari if you wanted... But idk about Vivaldi, i never touch Vivaldi's customization
@@null2264 for example, you. Can make the UI a lot smaller than Firefox or Chrome UI such that the content is larger in the center. Also, you could split windows with multiple sites ( quartile and beyond)
Try the new Firefox version. I loved Vivaldi initially, but prefer the new Firefox. Unlimited PiP sizing, uses the same keyboard shortcuts I know, also does sync, doesn't suck on TH-cam anymore, and because it's not chromium based; it doesn't try to stop you from downloading from YT. Tiling can also be done in most DEs (I'm using it in Gnome).
@@madthumbs1564 thing is, Vivaldi allows for tiling of webpages within the same window
@@jgj4430 That's pretty neat feature i would say, but I don't think i will using that very often... So at the end it's all about personal preference...
Vivaldi is the continuation of the old Opera Browser with Presto engine. They are from Norway. I don't think it's garbage. It's their own creation it's different, they don't want to be FOSS and i think this is fine, because freedom you know...
Don't jump to conclusions too fast. Even Stallman can't go full Stallman...
What do you think about Mozilla, DT? The source code is open as well, but it's not under GPL or MIT. Do you think that flavors of open source has much difference?
just moved to galaxy tab s6 and calling it garbage is too much, tried every god damn browser including samsungs own, aint no browser is better than vivaldi on samsung DEX, and its amazing on pc as well, many features that i would otherwise use extensions for..is just here! and it looks beautiful!
Those of you saying that Vivaldi is great and awesome should understand how it was developed. (1) The underlying Engine is Chromium, Which means they didn't develop anything in the core, It's just Chromium. (2) Firefox is more stable IMO, I've been using it for years now. (3) What Vivaldi did is just add an entire React App(aka. UI for Website) over the Chromium browser which in my opinion is not that hard. (4) You can do what ever you want with Firefox source as long as you release it in GPL. (5) Whoever calls Vivaldi a hard work must be confused(or the normies). It's not hard to build React UI, Maybe 1 year at max. (6) If you can't see how the binaries are built by Vivaldi and you are not supposed to reverse engineer it then it means a lot of shady stuff is done under your nose.
**I see all these normies here who do not give a shit about anything, They just want the new shiny thing which craps on them.**
You can call me a linux fan boy or whatnot. But Vivaldi is definitely Garbage.
i just wanted to try out something different
That's sad. I liked Vivaldi.
I honestly think they are great, while i do not use the browser cause its too bloated i admire them for release the source code even without being FOSS
Wait, seriously? You think any software that isn't free or open source is garbage? Damn. Im sorry. But that's a horrible way of thinking imo. Do you mean to say that all software except for a tiny fragment is garbage to you?
Why are you so against non-FOSS software? What's so bad about people wanting to have ownership over their software?
Because consumers also want to own their own data. Proprietary software is impossible to verify it not collecting consumer data. And if Vivaldi's point is privacy because we can't trust the ads and trackers of the internet, we must trust Vivaldi being serious about privacy. The other thing, while proprietary software can generate billions in revenue, it doesn't advance the tech community. Why do you think there are so many web browsers? Because many web engines are open source. Why do you think most servers run BSD or Linux? Because serveradministrators and the tech community can verify its secure. Hell, I know a few tricks how to gain full access to a windows machine without a passsord without overwriting everything. I don't know a single way to do that with BSD or Linux. I'm not saying there are none, but because it is open source, everyone can contribute to it or point out security holes. And most people who find those holes will report them. Open source has done so many great things while proprietary software only made a few guys rich. Im fine if the microwave oven is closed source but I won't put my personal data in a browsers that may sell my data or does god knows what without my knowledge.
He said when there is an alternative. Of course, feel free to take ownership of your software and have it normally riddled with security vulnerabilities and only protected by "obscurity", but I'd rather have my computer; not your computer. Ironically free software is the only way you can own it.
Are you watching the right TH-cam channel? -Or maybe not in Linux or watching him long enough to understand?
@@madthumbs1564 I'm brand new here, so was genuinely curious
@@theglowingone5643 WOW, you actually have no idea on what world you live. Might I suggest you look into what open source was before the Free software foundation got it's grubby little hands on it? Or why Stallman hated the term.
If the code is readable but just not touchable, what's the difference?
It matters to make sure it's safe.
And features are too good.
Vivaldi is like spyware... even on Android, it asks permission for accessinng into files, pictures, etc...
@@kreuner11
You mean on Vivaldi?... still do NOT wanna give them any permission on the Phone...
@@SkyFly19853 Install XPrivacy (or XPrivacyLua if you have a modern Android version)
@@kreuner11
Then I do it on a different web browser which I can trust or asks me less permissions...
Didn't the Chinese give funding to them?
That's not true. I just downloaded Vivaldi and on launch it didn't ask me for any permissions whatsoever. It was only when I tried to download a file when it asked me to grant it access to my storage. Until a feature that requires a certain permission is used, the browser doesn't ask for it.
Regardless, Vivaldi is a pretty solid browser tbh, definitely undeserving of the "garbage" title you throw around so much
"Proprietary garbage" is a two word phrase. It just means that a program is not free and open source software.
All non FOSS was considered garbage, and for a reason. You don't get it, others in the tech industry do.
Please review the Beaker Browser...
Cool project. Thx for spreading the word.
Luakit should be your next I guess ;)
Chris Titus Tech reply in 5...4...3...2...1
Hasn't he been a Brave boy as of late?
Chris Titus is an idiot that spreads misinformation without any real knowledge on the subject of his videos.
@@Task9 Of course he spreads misinformation and doesn't impart nay real knowledge. Who ever heard of a sysadmin knowing anything about computers?
I suggest the term Freedomware, like Freedom Fries.
Might as well use Google Chrome.
2:06 Free as in free beers.
I've never liked Vivaldi Browser. I never liked the style of it.
Lots of butt-hurt comments around here.. At the end of the day, this is how things will always roll:
1. This is DTs channel, and he can pretty much post anything he wants to, so long as it adheres to YTs guideliness.
2. You are not obliged to agree nor to disagree with what DT has posted.
3. You, having full control of your own faculties, are your own person. Use whatever software, OS, app or game that you like.
If you still feel butt-hurt that the content of the video is an affront to you or your choices, then man.. find something else to do, for your sanity's sake.. There is more to life than arguing online with things that will not always sway to your favor.
So he can post anything he wants within the guidelines but we can't do the same in the comments section?
@@AlucardNoirexactly.. his house.. his rules.. don't be butt hurt..
@@mondskiez309 that's one way of describing hypocrisy.
too bad i cant use Vivaldi because its not FOSS. but Vivaldi is great. i wish it was FOSS
Nobody is telling you this.
It is sad that proprietary software of the past is better in terms of privacy than most of today's free/open-source software.
It is enough to look at old Opera 12.x and current Firefox. When I start my old Opera, it doesn't try to connect anywhere. When I launch non-Librefoxed Firefox - it connects to many addresses immediately.
Didn't the Chinese give funding to it?
That was Opera Browser. Opera CEO had left Opera just before Chinese involvement and started Vivaldi Browser.
I like software licensed in "LTS" license. Don't care about what is
free/proprietary or how you advertise your software.
"Proprietary garbage"? that's kinda rude description. There is closed-source software that is actually really good. That's why people try to make opensourced counterparts that will work the same.
Regarding Vivaldi - the core used is open source - Chromium. GUI part is closed.
I use spotify what do you think about , I know that not free Software if there was I would use it . how about opera Browser ?
Since Spotify is a paid service that somewhat supports the artists i have a hard time seeing that the application (or one like it) could be made free and open source. I don't think they would like to make ripping the music any easier. TLDR; Would be a strange business model.
Opera is chinese, rest you decide
Opera used to be great. It's not anymore. It's also shady. Firefox improved immensely recently.
Even if it was open source I would not use it.
Vivaldi is my preferred browser. I don’t care if it’s not open source. I have it installed on my fedora and it’s great. Prefer it over chrome. I’m not doing business with google if I don’t have to.
It’s plays videos right out of the box. Chromium doesent do that.
Vivaldi is the core dev team that made opera. Opera sold out to the Chinese (literally) so the devs left and created Vivaldi.
I'm on arch btw
Exactly you say it the Best DT. Thanks for video.
Video Idea : try some 100% free distros like those listed here : www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html