People who bought Volts (not as fleet vehicles, but actual private owners) knew how to use them to their fullest and loved them. You get the EV experience without the range anxiety. Unless i do road trips with mine, i can go months without needing to fuel up. A Prius may be more efficient in true hybrid mode, but I'm rarely in hybrid mode. You'd have to be driving a Prius Prime to compete with my mileage. I would love to go full EV, but i live in Canada in an area of the country where cities are extremely sparse and consequently so are chargers. There are plenty of people who want to go EV but are scared to do so for reasons like this. They're the ones who would happily go PHEV and use them properly. Bottom line, a conventional hybrid can't compete with a properly used PHEV.
On our PHEV forums there are way more people that compete on how much efficiency they can get and how many mile and months between having to visit gas stations.
There are certainly some people who bought a PHEV as a loophole to get a discount, and access to commuter lanes. But I think that the great majority of PHEV buyers wanted a BEV, but at the time BEVs were too expensive, or had too limited of a range. I have leased or owned PHEVs for the last 11 years, and I always viewed them as really being electric cars, with a gas motor backup. My next new vehicle will be an Aptera, which will be both solar and battery powered. But I have several friends who I have recommended that they buy a PHEV or hybrid for their next vehicle, simply because it will best meet their budget and driving needs best. But the Tesla Model Y being the best selling vehicle in the world shows that BEVs are already the best fit for many people looking for a new vehicle today. Even though GM won't do it, they should just start building the Gen2 Chevy Bolt again. They own all of the technology and design. In most ways the Gen2 Volt was a match for the new Prius Prime. Going 50+ miles on electricity, and getting 50MPG+ on gas alone. While being a ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle). It would probably take little effort to swap in LFP batteries (25kWh for 80 miles of EV range) and add a NACA plug and DC fast charging. And they could bring over the Buick Velite 7 (Chinese PHEV Bolt) in parts, use domestic workers and local LFP batteries, and be competitive right away. But they probably won't do it.
My household evolved from 2005 Prius to 2013 C-Max Energi (plug in hybrid with 21 miles of electric range) to 2021 Mach E - “training wheels EV” is exactly right, or maybe “gateway drug” since the PHEV became a game to do as much on electric and find free charging when out and about as possible. It made the leap to full electric much more conceivable, had already built the get home and plug in habit, etc. Today the Rav 4 Prime PHEV sells very well!
we bought a 4XE in 2021, it worked for my wife's commute, we always plugged it in, we liked it so much we bought a BEV to use as our daily but i think i will always have a 2nd vehicle PHEV as a for a trip vehicle. ideally one that is 100-150km BEV with strong range extender engine.
GM should un-cancel the Bolt while they are at it. Yes the tech is dated, but the range and charging speed is still competitive with the Niro, Kona, etc
My two youngest sons BOTH own and drive 2017 and 2019 Chevy BOLTS, and LOVE them, and will never consider 'gas' vehicles ever again, and don't understand why anyone would. They are also some of the VERY few EVs where the new 'used tax credit' rules apply.
Every time PHEV’s come up the panelists on this show share anecdotal information based on people they’ve met or issues that came out of the incentives in Europe that motivated people to get PHEV’s and not charge them. I can’t find any study that shows that a majority of people buying PHEV’s in the US rarely charge them. I have a Rav4 Prime and it’s a great EV around town and a great Hybrid when I need it to be. Ice vehicles compromise efficiency, EV’s compromise range, PHEV’s do both well but don’t have the power or EV range of most EV’s. It’s all a choice and even with a Rolls Royce you are making some sort of compromise. The real question is whether or not PHEVs are reliable in the long run and profitable for the manufacturer. Some PHEV’s have lower reliability, but the Prime does well in consumer reports. Many EV’s have awful reliability. My next car will be an EV, that’s why I’m interested in these podcasts. But as these guys are in a position to influence and spread information I wish they weren’t so lazy.
I feel @Hazel is a bit disconnected from the North American market when she says PHEVs are unpopular. Canada has 2-3 year wait lists for the RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime
I agree. These guys don’t do their homework. The Prime is also on a waiting list where I live in Oregon. Plenty of evs to buy. Supply and demand for sure. But there is a lot of demand for some phevs.
Plug in hybrids are horrible, move on already! Also I absolutely love my new Polestar 2 long range RWD - it looks and drives amazing and has the longest range so that would be my pick obviously! You get what you pay for with the Model Y that is less car in my opinion. The MG4 is a very good affordable option and popular in Australia too, but is more of a small to medium hatchback than a SUV.
Here’s the problem. I don’t think a $20k car is feasible for American and European OEMs and maybe not for the Japanese. The Koreans can. And China will if we let them.
We leased a '22 Kia Sorento SX Prestige PHEV in March of '22, and LOVE the car, itself, although the 'compromise' between it, as a plug-in-hybrid, versus a 'pure' EV, was that there was no THREE-ROW seating vehicle(well, anything approaching affordable) in the EV marketplace, at the time. My wife LOVES the KIa, and even though I, myself, a Ford F150 LIGHTNING Pro owner, with over 40,000 miles and towing our camper a LOT!, would rather her drive a pure EV. I'm beginning to realize that my own retractions about the PHEV is more of my own concerns, not hers: meaning, I think that a Hybrid, even a Plug-IN, comes with the 'best' of both worlds, for range-anxiety concerns, and the 'worst' of both worlds - you'll still need the same 'maintenance', gas, and oil as most any other 'regular' engine-based vehicle. Well, at least that's my take on it - my wife doesn't 'care' so much, she LOVES the car. So, maybe that's actually the answer. 'Happy Wife, LONG life!' : ) Keep the PHEV.
I have Rav4 prime. 65 km e range on winter so far. It costs more than EV but suits better to Finland. Best total range estimate was 980km. Slow charging at night at home gets me what I need for day of EV driving. Preheating with included heat pump works great via app on phone. Might buy EV later if I need a bigger car. Only Toyota for me now have to however. They have 10 year warranty here and battery warranty until 350t km.
For 250 mile range read 150 miles. I think you will find that EV's are all but finished. Manufacturers in huge debt, sales have tanked, it's over, thank goodness.
Model Y, is he looking at demo models, that's not a fair comparison. I'm seeing $43390 (-7500=$35890). Is it a fair assumption there will be marked downs available on other models? This is already stretching the definition of affordable without wishful math & shenanigans
Because GM is a mass market vehicle manufacturer but until now Lucid is a luxury manufacturer. That would be like complaining that Lamborghini makes expensive cars. Different markets.
@@cypvh74EXACTLY. GM is a mass market automaker. They have product placement in a wide range of market segments. Lucid, until now, has had product in ONLY ONE market segment: the luxury segment. Lucid is a luxury, small production automaker.
Very disappointed that over a 3rd of the show was on Hybrid. You could have covered everything about hybrids in 5 min. Come on is this week that slow that you have to spend so much time on it. Thumbs down for this episode
The current administration wanted GM and other manufacturers to go all in for electric vehicles and as good citizens those organization leaders like Mary barra followed the governments lead. Now that consumers have spoken manufacturers moving back to offer hybrid gasoline vehicles is a smart move for the companies. GM makes the best hybrids so it’ll be easy to do so. The roll out of the ultium lineup has been a little disappointing yet the shift of allowable incentives for the vehicles has surprised many manufacturers so I suggest treading lightly on manufacturers navigating the constantly changing environment.
People who bought Volts (not as fleet vehicles, but actual private owners) knew how to use them to their fullest and loved them. You get the EV experience without the range anxiety. Unless i do road trips with mine, i can go months without needing to fuel up. A Prius may be more efficient in true hybrid mode, but I'm rarely in hybrid mode. You'd have to be driving a Prius Prime to compete with my mileage. I would love to go full EV, but i live in Canada in an area of the country where cities are extremely sparse and consequently so are chargers. There are plenty of people who want to go EV but are scared to do so for reasons like this. They're the ones who would happily go PHEV and use them properly. Bottom line, a conventional hybrid can't compete with a properly used PHEV.
The two people I talked to that own volts use them primarily as an EV
On our PHEV forums there are way more people that compete on how much efficiency they can get and how many mile and months between having to visit gas stations.
Just use premium fuel or you can fuck up the fuel system. Premium is good for 6 months. Regular only 3.
@@MrRaitzi the car manages that on its own. If the engine doesn’t run for a certain amount of time, it will kick on a “fuel and oil refresh mode”.
@@cypvh74 depends on brand. A lot of BMW messed up because. Also some Toyota but more rare.
There are certainly some people who bought a PHEV as a loophole to get a discount, and access to commuter lanes. But I think that the great majority of PHEV buyers wanted a BEV, but at the time BEVs were too expensive, or had too limited of a range. I have leased or owned PHEVs for the last 11 years, and I always viewed them as really being electric cars, with a gas motor backup. My next new vehicle will be an Aptera, which will be both solar and battery powered. But I have several friends who I have recommended that they buy a PHEV or hybrid for their next vehicle, simply because it will best meet their budget and driving needs best. But the Tesla Model Y being the best selling vehicle in the world shows that BEVs are already the best fit for many people looking for a new vehicle today. Even though GM won't do it, they should just start building the Gen2 Chevy Bolt again. They own all of the technology and design. In most ways the Gen2 Volt was a match for the new Prius Prime. Going 50+ miles on electricity, and getting 50MPG+ on gas alone. While being a ULEV (ultra low emissions vehicle). It would probably take little effort to swap in LFP batteries (25kWh for 80 miles of EV range) and add a NACA plug and DC fast charging. And they could bring over the Buick Velite 7 (Chinese PHEV Bolt) in parts, use domestic workers and local LFP batteries, and be competitive right away. But they probably won't do it.
My household evolved from 2005 Prius to 2013 C-Max Energi (plug in hybrid with 21 miles of electric range) to 2021 Mach E - “training wheels EV” is exactly right, or maybe “gateway drug” since the PHEV became a game to do as much on electric and find free charging when out and about as possible. It made the leap to full electric much more conceivable, had already built the get home and plug in habit, etc. Today the Rav 4 Prime PHEV sells very well!
we bought a 4XE in 2021, it worked for my wife's commute, we always plugged it in, we liked it so much we bought a BEV to use as our daily but i think i will always have a 2nd vehicle PHEV as a for a trip vehicle. ideally one that is 100-150km BEV with strong range extender engine.
GM should un-cancel the Bolt while they are at it. Yes the tech is dated, but the range and charging speed is still competitive with the Niro, Kona, etc
A big fat battery st the best price
My PHEVs are majority driven in EV mode. My 2012 volt is over 90% EV driven. 190000 kms. I now drive a BEV, while my family drives the PHEVs
You can still buy the Bolt. Which is probably the best deal out there.
And soon you will have the EX30 and Equinox EV.
My two youngest sons BOTH own and drive 2017 and 2019 Chevy BOLTS, and LOVE them, and will never consider 'gas' vehicles ever again, and don't understand why anyone would.
They are also some of the VERY few EVs where the new 'used tax credit' rules apply.
Is this podcast cancelled? Haven’t seen one in a month
Model Y drives like it's on bricks.... seriously that's the one you would pick from that list?
Every time PHEV’s come up the panelists on this show share anecdotal information based on people they’ve met or issues that came out of the incentives in Europe that motivated people to get PHEV’s and not charge them. I can’t find any study that shows that a majority of people buying PHEV’s in the US rarely charge them. I have a Rav4 Prime and it’s a great EV around town and a great Hybrid when I need it to be. Ice vehicles compromise efficiency, EV’s compromise range, PHEV’s do both well but don’t have the power or EV range of most EV’s. It’s all a choice and even with a Rolls Royce you are making some sort of compromise. The real question is whether or not PHEVs are reliable in the long run and profitable for the manufacturer. Some PHEV’s have lower reliability, but the Prime does well in consumer reports. Many EV’s have awful reliability. My next car will be an EV, that’s why I’m interested in these podcasts. But as these guys are in a position to influence and spread information I wish they weren’t so lazy.
I feel @Hazel is a bit disconnected from the North American market when she says PHEVs are unpopular. Canada has 2-3 year wait lists for the RAV4 Prime and Prius Prime
I agree. These guys don’t do their homework. The Prime is also on a waiting list where I live in Oregon. Plenty of evs to buy. Supply and demand for sure. But there is a lot of demand for some phevs.
Plug in hybrids are horrible, move on already! Also I absolutely love my new Polestar 2 long range RWD - it looks and drives amazing and has the longest range so that would be my pick obviously! You get what you pay for with the Model Y that is less car in my opinion. The MG4 is a very good affordable option and popular in Australia too, but is more of a small to medium hatchback than a SUV.
From that list, probably the Polestar 2, but $40k is not 'affordable'. 20k is affordable.
Here’s the problem.
I don’t think a $20k car is feasible for American and European OEMs and maybe not for the Japanese. The Koreans can. And China will if we let them.
We leased a '22 Kia Sorento SX Prestige PHEV in March of '22, and LOVE the car, itself, although the 'compromise' between it, as a plug-in-hybrid, versus a 'pure' EV, was that there was no THREE-ROW seating vehicle(well, anything approaching affordable) in the EV marketplace, at the time.
My wife LOVES the KIa, and even though I, myself, a Ford F150 LIGHTNING Pro owner, with over 40,000 miles and towing our camper a LOT!, would rather her drive a pure EV.
I'm beginning to realize that my own retractions about the PHEV is more of my own concerns, not hers: meaning, I think that a Hybrid, even a Plug-IN, comes with the 'best' of both worlds, for range-anxiety concerns, and the 'worst' of both worlds - you'll still need the same 'maintenance', gas, and oil as most any other 'regular' engine-based vehicle.
Well, at least that's my take on it - my wife doesn't 'care' so much, she LOVES the car. So, maybe that's actually the answer. 'Happy Wife, LONG life!' : ) Keep the PHEV.
The Europe issues with PHEV because the companies supplied them with free gas cards.
Canada/US don't have tax waivers for benefit-in-kind like the UK - I expect getting a PHEV & never charging is not as common here
With the tax incentive in the US our PHEV was less than the ICE version and saves us tons of money on gas.
I have Rav4 prime. 65 km e range on winter so far. It costs more than EV but suits better to Finland. Best total range estimate was 980km. Slow charging at night at home gets me what I need for day of EV driving. Preheating with included heat pump works great via app on phone. Might buy EV later if I need a bigger car. Only Toyota for me now have to however. They have 10 year warranty here and battery warranty until 350t km.
People like the EV aspect of GM plug ins, then buy a Kia, Hyena, Volvo, Polestar, Tesla etc. That's a diff biz plan.
I think GM should get back into the Bolt technology and do an EV with a gas range extender instead of the Toyota style hybrid.
For 250 mile range read 150 miles. I think you will find that EV's are all but finished. Manufacturers in huge debt, sales have tanked, it's over, thank goodness.
Model Y, is he looking at demo models, that's not a fair comparison. I'm seeing $43390 (-7500=$35890). Is it a fair assumption there will be marked downs available on other models? This is already stretching the definition of affordable without wishful math & shenanigans
yay EV podcast
Hyundai Kona Electric?
Y’all complained about GM’s expensive cars, but give Lucid a pass? 😂
Because GM is a mass market vehicle manufacturer but until now Lucid is a luxury manufacturer. That would be like complaining that Lamborghini makes expensive cars. Different markets.
@@Jeddin GM has vehicles across all market segments.
@@cypvh74EXACTLY. GM is a mass market automaker. They have product placement in a wide range of market segments. Lucid, until now, has had product in ONLY ONE market segment: the luxury segment. Lucid is a luxury, small production automaker.
Very disappointed that over a 3rd of the show was on Hybrid. You could have covered everything about hybrids in 5 min. Come on is this week that slow that you have to spend so much time on it. Thumbs down for this episode
I am not. Most shows are about EVs. I drive phev.
The current administration wanted GM and other manufacturers to go all in for electric vehicles and as good citizens those organization leaders like Mary barra followed the governments lead.
Now that consumers have spoken manufacturers moving back to offer hybrid gasoline vehicles is a smart move for the companies. GM makes the best hybrids so it’ll be easy to do so.
The roll out of the ultium lineup has been a little disappointing yet the shift of allowable incentives for the vehicles has surprised many manufacturers so I suggest treading lightly on manufacturers navigating the constantly changing environment.