String pins should 100% be put into an entirely separate category than regular free fall pins. I think they're a great idea for newer bowlers and people who just wanna go out and have fun, but any serious bowler(s) should primarily use Free Fall, especially in tournaments.
@TheHouseBowling that makes the most sense, especially for any bowlers who don't care for them. From what I've seen and heard, the String pins definitely seem easier than the free falling pins, and I suck at bowling😂 but I still like the free falling more, personally.
Strings are in their own separate category... but that's not really the point. Not everyone has multiple local centers to choose from... so if the only place in town goes to strings, then you're stuck with them, and the only sanctioned average you'll have to your name will have an asterisk next to it. This is being shoved down everyone's throat in the name of "saving bowling". The only thing it will save is recreational bowling at $10/ game, for people who couldn't care less what their scores are. This is a giant "fuck you" to anyone who takes the sport seriously.
@@TheHouseBowling I'm lucky in that regard myself... but the first domino already fell a couple months back when one of the last independently owned centers around here sold out to some Dave&Buster's style "family fun center". They immediately went to strings, and all the leagues and tournaments packed up and left... several migrating to my home center, lol... we've got leagues 7 days a week now👍. My center is still independently owned, and by all indications they do quite well... but almost everything else around here is Bowlero, and they're gonna force this crap on everybody eventually. And not for nothing, but as a pro do you really want to win or lose a title because a pin Tarzans itself across the deck and takes out a pin that would otherwise have been left standing on free- fall machines? Because sooner or later, that's gonna happen... Nobody competing at your level should have to be at the mercy of these abominations.
I was invited to the ITRC for testing,went twice, and it appears that both times, most bowlers did better on free falling pins.The best part was I got a free ball after the second session.
Thankfully, I live in an area with lots of centers, so I think I will always be able to choose a center with free fall pins. This is what I will opt for every time I have a choice, even if it costs a lot more to bowl.
I hate them. 220 average bowler posted a video on them and he made the big four, Greek church, and 7-10 all within ten attempts on them. They’re atrocious
I love 220 average bowler, but I hate that he put up that video in the fashion he did. That alley clearly did not set up the string pins correctly. You can see the differences between these pins (which I would expect to be set up properly given where they are) vs those. These pins were not flying like crazy like his were. These looked more proper compared to what I expected from USBC's reports.
@@marwels23absolutely not string pins are an absolute joke and should never be allowed screw the owners into f the companies thinking they are remotely the same it’s an absolute joke you clearly avg 140
@@MrOsmodeus And you think that if strings went into every house tomorrow, that the vast majority of those house would have them set up strictly to USBC spec? Most houses these days can't even pass a normal USBC inspection. A big reason averages exploded in the 90s and 00s, is because house were intentionally ignoring ABC lane prep regulations, in order to put out higher scoring lane conditions, to draw in more bowlers. If a house can loosen up the strings by half and inch, and get higher scores... you better believe they'll do it.
@@deadpolymers3416 then it's not the stringpins at fault is it? if some centres are more concerned with power fantasy than fair competition, don't bowl at them. they hardly sound like they were worth bowling at irregardless of pinsetting machines
My local bowling center went with strings 2 years ago, so most of the bowlers around here have gotten used to them. The reset always puts the pins back in the correct position, so no issues with pins sliding upright into odd positions. A light pocket hit, however, very often results in a 4-5-7 split, where before it was a high probability strike shot. It's not unusual to see this little split 6-8 times per night among the 8 bowlers on 2 teams. Before the strings, a 4-5-7 split was very rare. Split conversions are easier with the strings and I've made several 4-7-10 and 4-6-10 split conversions. I average around 200 in two leagues, which isn't bad for a 74 year old guy throwing 13 mph. For splits, I ramp this up to 14.5 mph. The bottom line for me on the strings is that... it's not better or worse, just different, and it's not that hard to get used to string bowling. I like that the equipment is more reliable, so no long waits for pin machines to be fixed. The play stoppages are brief, usually only 2-3 minutes, and much less often than with free-falling pin machines. It's also cheaper for the house, which is good because it can mean lower bowling costs as well as the house staying in business during difficult economic times.
They seem more dependable because they're brand new, every moving party wears out eventually and nobody knows what a pain in the butt it will be when when the strings start breaking and the rewind mechanisms start wearing out.
@@stephenwalker6939 All true, no doubt, but when the basic machinery is so much simpler, it usually means that there are less parts to go wrong and therefore greater dependability results. Time will tell, of course. I've been told by the house owner that there are some parts that are prone to wear more quickly than others and that they have a good supply of those things on hand. After 2 years of bowling with string pins, it's been reasonably good / better than I thought at first.
You are a chill guy. If I bowled until I was 74 and averaged 200, I would be very mad that they went to strings and basically changed the game you've been playing. If they put strings in my bowling center, they would never see me again. I am not as good as you, but I consider myself someone who is always working on my game. I don't consider it real bowling with string pins.
So my hometown in Connecticut had two centers for years. One AMF and one Brunswick. The Brunswick one was sold, while the AMF was renovated and became a Bowlero. From what I've heard from one of the centers managers, there's talks to possibly buy back our old Brunswick house from the people who wanted to turn it into a used car dealership but never did. It's still there completely untouched. They would use that house for leagues with free fall pins, while possibly turning the Bowlero into a strictly string pin house. Nothing is confirmed yet, but I feel like that would be a good idea to keep everyone happy.
Even though the 2 pin did not get rolled, the 8 pin was hit by a string and fell forward, yet in free fall you would have had double wood. On those single pins they were shooting all over the place and would have converted the 7-10 a few times. Strings are crazy. I think for pure arcade bowling they would be fun because you would get all kinds of weird ass stuff happening.
I get it. I understand why. Still don't like it, but it could be a way to save my home center ( and others across the country). We definitely wouldn't see a decline in the lack of carry we already have there!
In Canada, I coached a National Championship held on string pins. Had a bowler (very good young man) averaged 256 for 7 games on them. It was tough as you had to watch your bowler, the lanes for changes and also the pins to make sure of the pin fall if it was a string pull or a true fall. I mean just before the shield drops the machine starts pulling the strings back and sometimes the 7 or 10 pin will fall extremely late and the camera most times will count the wrong pin count. Extremely time wasting getting the right call and changing the score. Not the way for competed bowling at a high level, for entertainment and fun leagues yes, high level of the sport no thanks.
AFAIK most string machines uses string tension to check if a pin is fallen, not a camera. But there is a time limit like when the table comes down on freefall machines and hits pins.
Yep, I guarantee they'll still want you to buy their $300 balls and $250 high performance shoes while you pay $40 per hour to bowl in the dark on string pins.
Yea, lineage will stay the same for a string pin system 1/5 the price of a normal setup. And you can train anyone in 3 days on how to fix them, so no reason to pay an actual mechanic so there’s another cost cut. It’s all about putting more $ in owners pockets and lowering their operating expenses. I hate it, but as an owner in this economy, it’s hard to argue with them. That is if they can replace league bowlers with open bowlers, because 95% of bowlers won’t bowl league on string systems. At least not yet.
@@briguyinsiright!?!?! How dare a proprietor try to make money? Should give it away and go broke. The economics of owning a business and making enough to live on is insane. Then throw in dealing with booze-infused asses everyday, or the horror of something like a slip and fall lawsuit for $1-2M…. Like to see everyone give it a run
My center is switching to the QubicaAMF certified strings as we speak. We have a 20 lane house, 3 full leagues (Tues-Thurs) 2 ladies leagues that take up half, a junior and a pee wee league. We haven’t lost a single league bowler because of the switch. SURE we had a lot of threats over the summer that they would not return, but they all did. The more they are learning about the strings the more they are understanding why proprietors are making the switch. Most league bowlers have absolutely no clue what goes on behind the scenes and what it takes to keep a bowling alley going. Yeah balls and shoes are through the roof but inflation isn’t our fault 🤷🏼♂️ and we have to pay the bills just like everybody else. We are looking forward to the “less stress” part of it all. Now we get to put more time and money into other parts of our center. It’s a win win. But yes the game will be different. But as with anything you’ve gotta adapt to change.
So they replace their machines that are already paid for and just need upkeep. I can not see how this is cheaper. A pinsetter that is well maintained is very cost effective to run. And if the string machines are so much cheaper to own and operate why don't bowling alleys lower the cost per game? @@nckjhey
Packy, I hope you do a few more videos on this. Just try to get a camera setup close at an angle that shows the top/rack area well. Looking mainly at spare, mainly splits to be honest, odd carries. Looking to see if you or Mitch or anyone for that matter, get carry a hard split but getting a weird string interaction with pins in the "rack" that are suppose to be out of play. This is one of the things I believe happens more than it should, where the string catches an out of play pin and instantly changes the direction of the pin more so than what it would with the string just alone.
Got to change with the times I bowl on strings and yes there are some differences but it’s bowling either way might effect your game a few pins here and there or for the good and the bad .. it’s a lot cheaper for the owners to maintain with the shortage of decent mechanics
Strings didn't ruin my house because we got them. It ruined my house cause the next town over did... We absorbed all their leagues... Now the only rec time is first thing in the morning, or late at night. Annoying, but mostly just glad it wasn't the one that got changed.
My house just installed string pins and I'm looking forward to trying them. I'm old enough to remember when plastic balls first hit the market and the equipment has been changing ever since. I'll adapt. Perhaps, I won't see as many messengers, but, hopefully, I won't see as many pocket 7-10s.🤞
I played bowling back when prople would set pins. Then, lower end alleys put in the carnival atring machines while the larger ones in my area but in beautiful brunswick machines. Strings greatly affected game play. The alleys who had strings went out of business over the ones who didn't. This is the last gasp of the bowling industry.
I have nothing but respect for WSU, but this is a bad look for the program...also packy mentioned lack of messengers. thats something i never thought about
The Shocker bowling program didn't make the decision. The Rhatigan Student Center, the owners and operators of the bowling center, made the decision. They get new student employees every year, and the old machines were dangerous and more complex to learn and for a never ending cycle of new employees. It's not ideal, but it's a practice facility. If anything it forces the teams to be more accurate and pay more attention to ideal ball reaction rather than relying on trip fours and messengers. Should make them even more deadly during college competition. Shockers will adapt, as always
My local university is one of the top programs in the nation, but we've had string pins for the last decade or longer. Easy maintenance on a school campus is always gonna win out. Besides, at this level, these programs aren't there to see crazy pin reaction. They're practicing to hone their physical game, not shoot big scores.
@@joshg218 if only you can train the better and perfectly, they won't have problems working on Free Falls. You'll be lucky if you can find an Autistic Person like me who loves Bowling and comepletely addicted to Free Fall Pinsetters. In fact, I was about 14 Years old clearing a Pin Jam on an AMF 82-90XL Pinspotter. I wasn't hurt and I wasn't even an employee of my local center when I did that, hands down my best experience and I wanna do it again since I'm 20 now.
Im a pool player, not a bowler, so I dont know much about this. However, I did see one video where they did say string pins are cheaper to install, require less maintenance, and the maintenance itself cheaper, easier, faster, and safer. Obviously, these are preferable traits for the bowling alley. Obviously, I can understand that the strings do change the behavior of the pins and that is an issue with traditional bowlers. There are many comments and upvotes from people saying if their bowling alley switches to strings, they will quit. I can understand that. However, do bowling leagues and/or serious bowlers have enough financial sway to actually make a difference in a decision by a bowling alley to switch? If you all quit, would they alley even notice or care?
We have 2 centers in our town, I can see the one getting stringpins, and all the casual bowlers will go there. And the few leagues they still have will probably go to the other house which will never install them.
The negative part of string pin setters is that makes bowling strikes harder to hit. The positive part is that enables any bowling alley to offer different types of bowling in the same place. The bigger modification will be the adjustment of ball returns. So everyone can enjoy ten pin, duck pin, five pin, and candlepin bowling in special universal lanes at low cost. Arthritis guys like me can practice the smaller ball bowlings without the risk of injuries of the most popular ten pin bowling.
Packy, Ryan, winning make me feel good too! Not sure if anyone asked this yet, but was wondering about the weight of pins used with strings was different than no strings? Not a fan of string pins, like watching a punch judy puppet show .
They're not even good for that. They're good on little toys that parents buy their kids for completely unsanctioned play at home. They do not belong anywhere else, except maybe in a bar or arcade, where there's NO sanctioned play permitted. Once the strings go on... it's a GAME, not a sport.
I haven't bowled with string pins yet, but I just watched my cousin bowl at a place with them for college (can't believe that was allowed). Pins were going down because of the strings a bunch. When there was a late fall, you had to either start inputting all of your scores manually or reboot those lanes and get everyone to another somewhere else. Just seems very counter-intuitive. At least I got a laugh out of seeing all the pins juggling around back there
Hey guys. Can you show the string pin setter in action? I am curious to see how certified string machines rack the pins and lay down for spares. 1 full game from start to finish, unedited would be cool.
Don’t do it, Packy, don’t you do it. String pins are the worst. The only positive is for the center until all of the bowlers leave for a real bowling experience.
No it's a horrible idea, rhats what family fun centers are for, just wait for you to hit a perfect pocket and almost getting a strick but there is one string pin that keeps the pin from falling over, you will be scared😢
Here in Canada, 5 pin bowling has been on strings for years. Very few bowling alleys have free fall 5 pin. Nothing wrong with strings but sometimes you get a tangle. We have some lanes with pinsetters that are convertible to both 5 and 10 pin games. Maybe we can bring 5 pin bowling to the United States...
In just 20 frames, I counted 12 hits that were affected by the strings. USBC is claiming only a small difference in the overall scoring... while at the same ignoring exactly what Packy said... which is that scoring pace might not change a lot, but the way the pins fall will be forever changed. And that will have a major impact on the sport, even if the average score doesn't change much.
@@marwels23 If you change the definition of what the best bowler is, then sure. The best bowler right now is the guy who can knock down the most pins with no outside interference. Add string to the mix, and eventually players are going to figure out how to best abuse the strings to positively affect their scores. At that point the sport of bowling is forever changed. For it's entire existence it's been about knocking down pins with a ball. Which strings it's about knocking down pins with a ball and the strings.
@@marwels23 Not the same if pins are attach to something and I already found evidences of the bad things on Strings which made me wanna question USBC about their research because it wasn't enough.
@@deadpolymers3416you could say the same when they started to change wooden lanes for synthetic ones, when they introduced oil patterns and when balls turned from wood to rubber to urethane to reactive. Its an evolving sport and strings are economically a no brainer for a lot of centers
I've bowled on strings too many times, I sometimes get a strike even tho a pin was standing as another pins string hit the other string and made it so loose that the pinsetter thought that the pin had fallen
It's literally the same thing as arcade games with longer lanes and $300 balls. Of course, don't expect that part to change any time soon. The industry is fine with that, as are the Pros who are on the take endorsing them while gaslighting you into accepting string pins.
Slightly off topic, but I distictly remember the current two handed "no finger" style was what we were started on till we got big enough to "graduate" to finger holes. So, a lot has changed. Back on topic, string pins strike me as toylike compared to free fall.
the thing about string pins is an adequate amount of slack allows the same messengers and no weird string twister pins to occur, but too much slack leads to tangles. this goldilocks zone needs to be realized so that string pin can become an adequate form of bowling for competition. Right now there are far too many variables and I feel like we're head straight for the dark ages of bowling if it keeps up, free fall will always be better imo.
Best school in the country for bowling and they are switching to the changing times. Nobody is doomed except for the old time bowlers that dont know how to adapt and bitch and complain about shit out of their control.
@@OldManGroucH It was implied by the title that the center was ruined. Since I am an old timer, I am highly-subjective to suggestion. I blame new media for that.
@@OldManGroucH How does one adapt to carnival games? lol. Seems like Big Bowling doesn't want the competitive nature of the game anymore. They're doing everything in their power to discourage it. All they want is to charge between $30-$50 per hour for normies to come in, get drunk on $15 cocktails and roll house balls at string pins, in the dark, with laser lights flashing and loud music blaring. Soon they'll have those tickets spewing out of the ball return similar to arcades if you bowl over 150; redeem the tickets for a big teddy bear, or a free Mai Tai drink. Please explain in detail how any of this cultivates a new generation of highly skilled/motivated PBA bowlers.
@@OldManGroucH there's complaining about shit out of my control like 2 handed bowlers or urethane and there's things that fundamentally change how pins work. So when they need to remove them in 2 years because they can't even be consistent between different string centers, I guess I'll know it's totally my fault.
I started on string pin and play on both. I would say that the string pin can knock down an extra pin with a lot of ball reaction. But it also registers different. So the ball can move it will count as not fallen down when in other lanes it can count as a strike. I have a 5 point average in string pin despite that being where I practice. I don't think there is much difference. And I think cost is going to be the long term factor
I'm just starting the video so this may be addressed. What I think is important is how the strings are set up. They can definitely be the cause of some strange pin action. But I'm certain most of the centers that are using them aren't taking the time or care to minimize that. I know USBC did a study, but are there any recommendations anyone can actually follow at this point?
We're beyond recommendations at this point...the USBC has already defined a set of standardized specifications for string machines if a center intends to use them for sanctioned competition ... cable length, the dimensions of the pit, distance to the back screen, among other things.
Where I bowl in the UK we now have pins on strings and we have found that we get far less strikes than we used to get and definitely more splits. The overall opinion from us all is that we do not like it as much even though it is cheaper and easier for Bowling Alleys to have them.
My bowling center just went to string pins. Here is my assessment as a 155 average league bowler. First, the time to reset the pins is much faster. Second, there were no instances where the pin setters got stuck or dropped pins. As a result, the bowling experience is a little friendlier. Waiting for somebody to run down and reset a pin was no fun. I have not seen instances where the strings dramatically interfered with other pins. My average on the strings is about the same as free fall after 12 games in 4 sessions. Overall, I have been pretty happy with them and I know the guys that run the bowling center are a lot happier. Like it or not, string pins are here to stay and that is not going to change. So we just have to get used to it if we are going to keep bowling.
Exactly stuff changes like bowling changes just like when reactive bowling balls and synthetic lanes were introduced but that’s part of bowling and we just have to adjust and get used to string pins.
The background noise you are talking about sounds very similar to what is heard when bowling on Brunswick A or A2 machines. I have heard it more on the A's than on A2's.
Ryan definitely has Dad's swagger and eye intensity. I remember seeing him and Troy when they were little kids (like 5 or 6) occasionally at classes Sunday mornings in Lewisville, was always a blast with them (plus got some great tips from Mom and Dad :P).
String pins would be cool in a couple of lanes as a sort of "practice lane" for good bowlers. Maybe a few more for the birthday party crowd but the actual comp lanes need the pinsetters.
If my center gets strings, i will sell every piece of equipment i have. They're solving a problem that doesn't exist while creating a dozen more. They better not be sanctioned.
They already are sanctioned...USBC announced it a couple of months ago. Albeit in its own separate category, so anyone stuck bowling league on these abominations will have a separate "string pin average"... but it's already as "official" as it gets.
4:42 For me, this shot is the perfect summary of string vs. free. I’m not a huge fan of string, but it could work based on the decreased maintenance needs. Bowlers are gonna need to THROW. BETTER. SHOTS. on the whole, though, because trips and messengers are just not gonna be there to have your back as often.
Before I say no I'd like to try them I've been bowling for a long time. Unfortunately this won't help league because to many will just say no its not real bowling. Open bowling probably will stay the same
So I just want to add my 2 cents here. I own a 10 lane string pin alley and have a good friend who owns an alley with a traditional system. The fact is maintenance and mechanical issues are a fraction of what my good friend needs to deal with frequently (and yes he takes care of his machines). My consumer is the general public and I’m in this business to make money. Not hear amateur and “professionals” complain 😂
While string pins will never be a 1 to 1 replication of free fall bowling, I think at this point there has to be some give and take. If string pin bowling lanes help keep bowling centers open and let's them get a bit more profit, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately I've seen a couple of centers close around me and there haven't been any new bowling-specific centers built where I'm at in some time (I don't think any have been built in my lifetime). Maybe this will encourage people to see that the cost of entry to build a bowling center be a bit more feasible and have them start opening more of them instead of seeing them close down. The last thing I want to see happen is to have bowling die off and fade into obscurity. I love watching it and coaching it.
No... If string pin lanes are the only thing that 'saves' a bowling center from closing... then let the damn thing close. Bowling centers close when one of two things happen. 1.) The ownership doesn't manage their business properly. 2.) The public in that area loses interest in bowling. The USBC, and its predecessor, the ABC, mismanaged the success of league bowling for years, and served the needs of league bowlers less faithfully, year after year, until you got to a point, where over 50 percent of league bowlers now, bowl in unsanctioned leagues. They decided the money paid to the USBC was money up a piggy's butt, and said "Screw this... we'll do it ourselves! We don't need them or their BS!". Now? The USBC is struggling mightily to reverse the trend, and they've got nothing to offer. They're so focused on getting bowling into the olympics (which more and more, are irrelevant, because your average member of the public couldn't give a damn less about the olympics!), that they've let their league and tournament bowling suffer immensely. The chickens are coming home to roost on the USBC, and the best part is... they're the ones loading the revolver with all six rounds, pointing it at their head, and then wondering why they have a new hole in the head when they pull the trigger. They're doing it to themselves! And bowling proprietors are LETTING them do it! So are the manufacturers!! Get your popcorn and get ready for a show... because I think you're watching bowling's total collapse in slow, painful progress.
@@gwencrawford737I can 100% see how this option can allow a struggling center to stay open. If they are on the verge of closing because they can't spend the $500K to install new pin setters and have trouble with a good mechanic this is a viable option. It's still an expensive install! Taking away a $40-60k salary a year is a huge thing to help a center stay alive. The GP doesn't understand how expensive every bit of bowling is to keep up and maintain. Scoring is SUPER expensive and lots of centers need upgrades in that department. Pins are very pricey. Also lots of centers are running into quite aged synthetic lanes...not to mention they have pin setters from the 60s. Lanes are 250k (for a 16-18 lane center) Scoring is 100-200k Strings are gonna be 300k Free fall is double or more over strings New oiling machine 35k Yet league bowlers show up each week and sneak food into the centers and complain about everything they can find. Food too high, beer is too high, bowling too high, house changed the pattern...center employees hate working league nights because they get fussed at all night about nonsense... Not to mention bartenders make the least in tips on league nights.
Tested at the itrc and my free fall the second day I averaged 240 and 232 string pin so I’d say that’s accurate I also was throwing nuts the 2 free fall games
Okay for training purposes... otherwise, not doing it. One center near my home went string-pin a few months ago and I have yet to visit. There is one other mom/pop place nearby but mostly I drive about 40 minutes to the best bowling center in the area. And from what I hear, they are not making the switch. The place that did, I heard they barely oil. I think they just want to host kids parties and get bowlers who just play for kicks and don't have their own bowling balls. Too bad.
I've wondered if magnetic pin tops wouldn't be a better alternative to finding an easier way to do pinsetting without something interfering. Obviously you'd have to make sure both the overall weight and weight distribution across the pin would have to be maintained.
I mean, I can totally get why some alleys would opt for this. I knew someone who worked at an alley that shut down, and a major reason why Bowling alleys struggle is because the mechanisms that set up the pins are so complex and a nightmare of maintenance costs, they had to shut down half the isles because of how tight their budget was. Something like string pins does levy some of that. Obviously, it has some downsides, but I think overall, it's worth it in the long run for them. You dont see many bowling alleys these days.
I bowl on strings in the UK and am not a fan but it is what it is. Last week in my third game I managed to leave 5 splits but converted 3 so splits are definitely still part of the game.
Tested some in one of our test centers.... Cheap, easy to work on, spare parts are next to nothing to have in inventory.....and I still hated them. I picked up more splits than I ever had in my life and got those splits off some pretty nasty pocket robs. Needless to say, I rolled 50 games on strings and couldn't hit my avg by 10 pins. Sadly, big centers aren't getting the profit from bowling alone and many are converting to that "social bowling" center...and they are using string pins to make the profit margins much higher to stay in business. I work on GSX and those are 40k a pop and we carry 20k in spare parts. Our string centers are half the cost of the pinsetter and carry 1k or less in spare parts, and you can hire straight out of a fast food window and put them behind these things to work on if they can tie a knot.
How many total pins are part of the pin setter supply vs how many pins are available to set with strings? I'm guessing 20+ for a normal lane and only 10 for a string lane? Not that has an impact as relevant as the strings.
I think two things can be true at the same time when it comes to string pins vs. true free fall pins: 1) I personally don't like the idea of string pin setters becoming a "norm" for competitive or league bowling. I don't feel that it is good for the sport, the physics of the pinfall feels off, and I can't help but feel it cheapens the sport somehow. That said, I must admit that I haven't yet personally bowled on string setters so take what I say with a grain of salt 2) I recognize that in the specific case of the WSU Rhatigan Center, with an ever-rotating staff of mostly untrained college students, string setters can be appealing. The student-employees, usually, are not experienced working in bowling centers and their machinery, and string pin setters can make more sense. Especially when considering the costs of training and paying a mechanic, personnel safety, the insurance premiums, and simply the amount of time a manager would have to spend training new staff almost every year (if not even more frequently), I begrudgingly can admit that I understand WHY the Rhatigan Center would do this; and why this can be a more economical and easier option for more casual bowling centers.. Still, I will miss the late-night practice sessions at the RSC where the only sounds were you and the A2 pinsetter machine buzzing and clattering away in the background lol
just based on the few frames I saw, String Pins should not have been sanctioned for league use at all. Centers should instead have been made aware that using string machines will cost them USBC sanctioning. You said it and it was shown that "Pin Action" is significantly decreased with the strings. There are no messengers, fewer trips. The game is completely changed. All i see this creating is large companies like Bowlero and other corporate centers taking the cop out for their machines instead of repairing them. They already charge an arm and a leg for everything and this for them will be an easy way to shave off expenses to make more money over the long run. That's what big corporations do, reduce everything to figures. If they can make more money over time with this system and not worry about losing business over leagues and sanctioning then they will of course go this route, no questions asked. Already see those things with Bowlero after they took over the local houses
I hear that the reason so many are switching to string pins is cost and safety. While string pins changes the game and the angles of hitting a little bit, it really simplifies the mechanism mechanically. I hear the older free fall pinsetters have over 1000 moving parts, and in the string pin machines, this has been reduced to about 70. The old freefall machines were very heavy, were spring loaded, and were very dangerous to work on. They also required an employee on site if they jammed that was specially trained.
That's why i don't go the bowling center, i go the bowling alley where they don't have string pins but they do have cheap beer and you can smoke inside.
People are so terrified of change, but do not realize that some things have to change to stay alive. My home bowling center has tons of issues with their free fall setters. Half of the lanes black out every 5 to 7 frames and they only have one mechanic so it takes around 10 minutes to get it fixed. Change is a great teacher. If anybody wants to be a good bowler, they must adapt to whatever is thrown their way.
This is the change that shouldn't be accepted. I bet your local center is poorly maintained which is why they're breaking every time. I've been there because I bowled in 2 centers just like that but I don't blame the manufacturers, I blame the management and mechanics for not taking care of them properly. StringPins isn't saving the sport, it only boosts the number of casual bowlers for more greedy money while the Competitive Bowlers would leave and the Pinsetter Mechanics are left unemployed.
Same with our center. The machines were old and tired, often breaking down during league play. During regular bowling hours there were always a couple lanes down and out of service. The cost difference to install pin strings versus new free fall machines is substantial for a small business. Our center has had no mechanical issues with the pin strings since installing them.
You want these bowling centers to really be able to save money? Just go to video bowling. Take away the lanes and the pins completely. You go to your bowling center, you sit down at a nice console, with a drink holder right at your elbow. Then you use your controller to aim your ball, hit the button, and WHAM! A nice loud sound and the pins fly on screen, with some cool cartoon effects. You think this is ridiculous? No, it's change. Why throw real balls to hit real pins that needs to be reset when it can all be done video arcade style, at 1/10 the cost? Yeah, change is a great teacher alright. Video bowling even takes away the disparity between us regular bowlers and the top PBA pros. We can all aveage 260+, and have a great time.
I may be aging myself , but over forty years ago I was at an arcade and there used to be a tabletop game, the used a hockey puck to knock down a set of pins at an arcade, and the pins were reset by strings. Who knew that the regular bowling alleys would use this tech now
Instead of being ruined, why not try to improve it? I almost recently heard about this and while I didn’t actually played bowling on an ally that has that machine, it seems like a next big step. Also, when I said why not try to improve it, I mean make all of those strings longer and more loosen after setting up those pins. That way it will have more freedom and it will be the same like playing a real bowling, compared to if the string gets too tightened. Its problem would generally be, if the strings are too tight, while too loosen is also a problem. Also, before this machine or so, I have also seen a machine but a toy targeted to kids that automatically sets pins (containing 6 pins total) but without using strings. Not sure how to exactly explain but the pins from this toy are actually attached to its celling by somewhat of a cylinder and if they get knocked down then the pins raises up. That toy is called “Arcade Alley Bowlercade”. If it gets into a problem like strings getting tangled, then that’s when staffs or employees would need to fix them. I played bowling for several years and know how those pins get knocked down or the machine works
They create the hung 10…when the the 10 goes because the string wraps around its neck and pulls it down. No more really cool bird dogs and messengers…as he notes.
The last minute of this video is why comparing average scores between strings and free fall misses the point. It's obviously a different game. It doesn't matter that the differences that negatively impact scoring are well-balanced against those that positively impact scoring. It's a different game. If your favorite golf course doubled the diameter of the holes, but placed random spikes on the green to deflect and obstruct the ball, scores might end up being pretty similar, but no one would cite that to justify those changes.
Using full game scores only in the study is flawed. All that does is allow for multiple differences to cancel each other out. Like when I was in college and with a very basic classroom set up, measured the speed of light to within 0.0001%. Not because I had so little errors. But because my multiple large errors happened to be on either side and resulted in a crazy close number.
String pins....not a fan. Never bowled with them (other than at an amusement park). Sure they save money, but changes the game too much in my opinion. Maybe I just need to try them?
I feel like old school or any place that really have TRUE LEAGUES WON'T AFFORD TO LOSS MONEY. IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, now main even an some place like them yeah why wouldn't day lol
In a league I am now substituting and they use string pins , I noticed right away all the high handicaps. 48-52-55-59 46. .Not the 19-20-25's I am use to seeing. People with 213 on real pins and after 7 weeks they are at 165. I will most likely drop 2-3 teams at this alley. I will just drive 25 miles for occasional bowling at a real alley . I am at 185 last 18 games one league, 189 for last 12 games and 198 for last 15 games with a 280 and a 667 series. Then I go to strings bowl a 174 to qualify in league, people say, wow you're bowling good. Thursday night I had a 455. and game I was in pocket 9 times and left single pin nine times. NO carry. Strings knocking down pins when there were no pins near them, just stupid string
I can’t believe that Wichita State, with its world class college bowling program, switched to strings! My college, with a team nobody knows about, and a games area that is basically just a party center, has beautiful new Quibica free fall setters. They are difficult to maintain with a part time, student team of workers but we do our best.
See but there lies the problem that people fail to understand. You said it yourself, difficult to maintain. Why would any business want a product that minimal amount of people in the center would be able to fix unless you are a certified mechanic. These machines make it so any person who knows how to press a button can fix the machine.
@@shaunmcisaac782 but that is fixing it. If I build a better machine that doesn't require the typical maintenance of the original product, and i don't have to hire someone with a mechanical degree to conduct maintenance on the machine, why wouldn't I want the new machine? Why continue to hurt your business further? Stubbornness? Inability to adapt?
There is only ONE reason to switch to string pins, and that is that string pins are cheaper to operate and maintain. Bowling centers switch to string pins for survival. No real bowler wants this. But many centers now cater just to kids and party bowlers who yell and scream as they bowl and spill beer on the lanes under cosmic bowl light. Those are their real customers. Guys and gals with the house shoes and throwing plastic house balls don't know or care about oil patterns, pin carry, or any of those things. They just wanna have fun, and the bowling center owners just want to make money. So, anyone who wants to bowl well and improve their games would probably hate string pins. But the owners don't care. They just want money.
Good thing that every bowling alley near me has Free Fall pins. I played at a place with string pins and it was terrible. The pins kept getting tangled and the pin reaction felt wrong. It might be fine for little kids or people just wanting to have fun but for any serious bowler, I would avoid it at all costs.
I bowled very low scores today 96, 121, 124, 151 on strings and its hard. I would love to see professionals try it in a tournament. You could call it :PBA String Pin Open
Let me tell you, these machines are a pain to work on too. The alley I work at converted about a year ago and I hate everything about the string setters.
Eventually yes, when Bowlero widely adopts them to save money for their centers. Bowlero owns the PBA and they will most definitely have stops at those centers.
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String pins should 100% be put into an entirely separate category than regular free fall pins. I think they're a great idea for newer bowlers and people who just wanna go out and have fun, but any serious bowler(s) should primarily use Free Fall, especially in tournaments.
I agree and so did usbc, I think usbc sanctioned string pins into a whole different category of sanctioning
@TheHouseBowling that makes the most sense, especially for any bowlers who don't care for them. From what I've seen and heard, the String pins definitely seem easier than the free falling pins, and I suck at bowling😂 but I still like the free falling more, personally.
Strings are in their own separate category... but that's not really the point. Not everyone has multiple local centers to choose from... so if the only place in town goes to strings, then you're stuck with them, and the only sanctioned average you'll have to your name will have an asterisk next to it. This is being shoved down everyone's throat in the name of "saving bowling". The only thing it will save is recreational bowling at $10/ game, for people who couldn't care less what their scores are. This is a giant "fuck you" to anyone who takes the sport seriously.
@@notonyourlife7939 I’m glad to have so many centers near us!
@@TheHouseBowling I'm lucky in that regard myself... but the first domino already fell a couple months back when one of the last independently owned centers around here sold out to some Dave&Buster's style "family fun center". They immediately went to strings, and all the leagues and tournaments packed up and left... several migrating to my home center, lol... we've got leagues 7 days a week now👍. My center is still independently owned, and by all indications they do quite well... but almost everything else around here is Bowlero, and they're gonna force this crap on everybody eventually.
And not for nothing, but as a pro do you really want to win or lose a title because a pin Tarzans itself across the deck and takes out a pin that would otherwise have been left standing on free- fall machines? Because sooner or later, that's gonna happen... Nobody competing at your level should have to be at the mercy of these abominations.
If string pins become a normal in bowling I am retiring from bowling
Agree why would anyone want to practice on something that no longer is in use? They go rid of them for a reason ehhh bad move IMO.
Dance puppet pins Dance!!!
Ain't no way in hell I'll retire from bowling! I'll just build an at-home bowling alley with 4 lanes
@@LukeDaPandawhat a joke must be nice to have that kind of money😂😂ridiculous
@@MsEeyore14 I don't have that kind of money, but if every alley went to string pins, I'd find a way
I was invited to the ITRC for testing,went twice, and it appears that both times, most bowlers did better on free falling pins.The best part was I got a free ball after the second session.
"It appears."
Data or STFU.
Freefall pinsetters = more Maintenance but more fun
String pinsetters = less maintenance but less fun
Definitely the more fun one
Thankfully, I live in an area with lots of centers, so I think I will always be able to choose a center with free fall pins. This is what I will opt for every time I have a choice, even if it costs a lot more to bowl.
I hate them. 220 average bowler posted a video on them and he made the big four, Greek church, and 7-10 all within ten attempts on them. They’re atrocious
those stringpins weren't set up properly. they were so short they might as well have been a windchime
I love 220 average bowler, but I hate that he put up that video in the fashion he did. That alley clearly did not set up the string pins correctly. You can see the differences between these pins (which I would expect to be set up properly given where they are) vs those. These pins were not flying like crazy like his were. These looked more proper compared to what I expected from USBC's reports.
@@marwels23absolutely not string pins are an absolute joke and should never be allowed screw the owners into f the companies thinking they are remotely the same it’s an absolute joke you clearly avg 140
@@MrOsmodeus And you think that if strings went into every house tomorrow, that the vast majority of those house would have them set up strictly to USBC spec? Most houses these days can't even pass a normal USBC inspection. A big reason averages exploded in the 90s and 00s, is because house were intentionally ignoring ABC lane prep regulations, in order to put out higher scoring lane conditions, to draw in more bowlers. If a house can loosen up the strings by half and inch, and get higher scores... you better believe they'll do it.
@@deadpolymers3416 then it's not the stringpins at fault is it? if some centres are more concerned with power fantasy than fair competition, don't bowl at them. they hardly sound like they were worth bowling at irregardless of pinsetting machines
My local bowling center went with strings 2 years ago, so most of the bowlers around here have gotten used to them. The reset always puts the pins back in the correct position,
so no issues with pins sliding upright into odd positions. A light pocket hit, however, very often results in a 4-5-7 split, where before it was a high probability strike shot. It's not
unusual to see this little split 6-8 times per night among the 8 bowlers on 2 teams. Before the strings, a 4-5-7 split was very rare. Split conversions are easier with the strings and
I've made several 4-7-10 and 4-6-10 split conversions. I average around 200 in two leagues, which isn't bad for a 74 year old guy throwing 13 mph. For splits, I ramp this up to 14.5
mph. The bottom line for me on the strings is that... it's not better or worse, just different, and it's not that hard to get used to string bowling. I like that the equipment is more reliable,
so no long waits for pin machines to be fixed. The play stoppages are brief, usually only 2-3 minutes, and much less often than with free-falling pin machines. It's also cheaper for the
house, which is good because it can mean lower bowling costs as well as the house staying in business during difficult economic times.
They seem more dependable because they're brand new, every moving party wears out eventually and nobody knows what a pain in the butt it will be when when the strings start breaking and the rewind mechanisms start wearing out.
@@stephenwalker6939 All true, no doubt, but when the basic machinery is so much simpler, it usually means that there are less parts to go wrong and therefore greater dependability results. Time will tell, of course. I've been told by the house owner that there are some parts that are prone to wear more quickly than others and that they
have a good supply of those things on hand. After 2 years of bowling with string pins, it's been reasonably good / better than I thought at first.
And? Has it reduced the cost to the bowler?
You are a chill guy. If I bowled until I was 74 and averaged 200, I would be very mad that they went to strings and basically changed the game you've been playing. If they put strings in my bowling center, they would never see me again. I am not as good as you, but I consider myself someone who is always working on my game. I don't consider it real bowling with string pins.
What I’ll miss the most with string pins is the Deadwood Clears!
So my hometown in Connecticut had two centers for years. One AMF and one Brunswick. The Brunswick one was sold, while the AMF was renovated and became a Bowlero. From what I've heard from one of the centers managers, there's talks to possibly buy back our old Brunswick house from the people who wanted to turn it into a used car dealership but never did. It's still there completely untouched. They would use that house for leagues with free fall pins, while possibly turning the Bowlero into a strictly string pin house. Nothing is confirmed yet, but I feel like that would be a good idea to keep everyone happy.
I *wanted* to bowl at shocker lanes. But after they replaced the A-2 with strings. I think i would rather go to Northrock or Scneca lanes.
Even though the 2 pin did not get rolled, the 8 pin was hit by a string and fell forward, yet in free fall you would have had double wood.
On those single pins they were shooting all over the place and would have converted the 7-10 a few times.
Strings are crazy. I think for pure arcade bowling they would be fun because you would get all kinds of weird ass stuff happening.
I get it. I understand why. Still don't like it, but it could be a way to save my home center ( and others across the country). We definitely wouldn't see a decline in the lack of carry we already have there!
Rather see candlepin bowling become the norm rather than string-pin bowling.
don't knock candlepin bowling it's all we know up here and it's a form of real bowling but it's wicked hard.
I miss candlepin.
And you know candlepin will never have strings attached. ~Greg G 😉
A hundred times this. A _thousand_ times this. Candlepin is REAL bowling.
i've only done tenpin a few times but i've bowled candlepin for over 60 years.@@TheZotmeister
No string pins.... ever.
Haha
I haven't tried it yet, and I already hate it. Looks like it takes the fun out of bowling.
3 things mankind should have never invented:
1. Nuclear weapons
2. String pinsetters
3. Global warming
In Canada, I coached a National Championship held on string pins. Had a bowler (very good young man) averaged 256 for 7 games on them. It was tough as you had to watch your bowler, the lanes for changes and also the pins to make sure of the pin fall if it was a string pull or a true fall. I mean just before the shield drops the machine starts pulling the strings back and sometimes the 7 or 10 pin will fall extremely late and the camera most times will count the wrong pin count. Extremely time wasting getting the right call and changing the score. Not the way for competed bowling at a high level, for entertainment and fun leagues yes, high level of the sport no thanks.
AFAIK most string machines uses string tension to check if a pin is fallen, not a camera. But there is a time limit like when the table comes down on freefall machines and hits pins.
Its not fun even for a regular player
My biggest problem with strings is were is the trade off?
Bowling has gotten so expensive
Yep, I guarantee they'll still want you to buy their $300 balls and $250 high performance shoes while you pay $40 per hour to bowl in the dark on string pins.
Yea, lineage will stay the same for a string pin system 1/5 the price of a normal setup. And you can train anyone in 3 days on how to fix them, so no reason to pay an actual mechanic so there’s another cost cut. It’s all about putting more $ in owners pockets and lowering their operating expenses. I hate it, but as an owner in this economy, it’s hard to argue with them. That is if they can replace league bowlers with open bowlers, because 95% of bowlers won’t bowl league on string systems. At least not yet.
@@briguyinsiright!?!?! How dare a proprietor try to make money? Should give it away and go broke. The economics of owning a business and making enough to live on is insane.
Then throw in dealing with booze-infused asses everyday, or the horror of something like a slip and fall lawsuit for $1-2M….
Like to see everyone give it a run
My center is switching to the QubicaAMF certified strings as we speak. We have a 20 lane house, 3 full leagues (Tues-Thurs) 2 ladies leagues that take up half, a junior and a pee wee league. We haven’t lost a single league bowler because of the switch. SURE we had a lot of threats over the summer that they would not return, but they all did. The more they are learning about the strings the more they are understanding why proprietors are making the switch. Most league bowlers have absolutely no clue what goes on behind the scenes and what it takes to keep a bowling alley going. Yeah balls and shoes are through the roof but inflation isn’t our fault 🤷🏼♂️ and we have to pay the bills just like everybody else. We are looking forward to the “less stress” part of it all. Now we get to put more time and money into other parts of our center. It’s a win win. But yes the game will be different. But as with anything you’ve gotta adapt to change.
So they replace their machines that are already paid for and just need upkeep. I can not see how this is cheaper. A pinsetter that is well maintained is very cost effective to run. And if the string machines are so much cheaper to own and operate why don't bowling alleys lower the cost per game? @@nckjhey
Bowling is not a carnival game ,USBC shouldn't have approved any of these string machines
Packy, I hope you do a few more videos on this. Just try to get a camera setup close at an angle that shows the top/rack area well. Looking mainly at spare, mainly splits to be honest, odd carries. Looking to see if you or Mitch or anyone for that matter, get carry a hard split but getting a weird string interaction with pins in the "rack" that are suppose to be out of play. This is one of the things I believe happens more than it should, where the string catches an out of play pin and instantly changes the direction of the pin more so than what it would with the string just alone.
Got to change with the times I bowl on strings and yes there are some differences but it’s bowling either way might effect your game a few pins here and there or for the good and the bad .. it’s a lot cheaper for the owners to maintain with the shortage of decent mechanics
The physics of string pins will never be the same as free fall pins no matter how hard they try. Big nope for me.
Ever seen the 9 pin bowling version? They have strings, but the pins behave like they are not there.
Strings didn't ruin my house because we got them. It ruined my house cause the next town over did... We absorbed all their leagues... Now the only rec time is first thing in the morning, or late at night. Annoying, but mostly just glad it wasn't the one that got changed.
My house just installed string pins and I'm looking forward to trying them. I'm old enough to remember when plastic balls first hit the market and the equipment has been changing ever since. I'll adapt. Perhaps, I won't see as many messengers, but, hopefully, I won't see as many pocket 7-10s.🤞
I played bowling back when prople would set pins. Then, lower end alleys put in the carnival atring machines while the larger ones in my area but in beautiful brunswick machines. Strings greatly affected game play. The alleys who had strings went out of business over the ones who didn't. This is the last gasp of the bowling industry.
I have nothing but respect for WSU, but this is a bad look for the program...also packy mentioned lack of messengers. thats something i never thought about
Insurance cost a lot when kids with no experience are pin chasing and servicing machines
The Shocker bowling program didn't make the decision. The Rhatigan Student Center, the owners and operators of the bowling center, made the decision. They get new student employees every year, and the old machines were dangerous and more complex to learn and for a never ending cycle of new employees.
It's not ideal, but it's a practice facility. If anything it forces the teams to be more accurate and pay more attention to ideal ball reaction rather than relying on trip fours and messengers. Should make them even more deadly during college competition.
Shockers will adapt, as always
My local university is one of the top programs in the nation, but we've had string pins for the last decade or longer. Easy maintenance on a school campus is always gonna win out. Besides, at this level, these programs aren't there to see crazy pin reaction. They're practicing to hone their physical game, not shoot big scores.
@@joshg218 if only you can train the better and perfectly, they won't have problems working on Free Falls. You'll be lucky if you can find an Autistic Person like me who loves Bowling and comepletely addicted to Free Fall Pinsetters. In fact, I was about 14 Years old clearing a Pin Jam on an AMF 82-90XL Pinspotter. I wasn't hurt and I wasn't even an employee of my local center when I did that, hands down my best experience and I wanna do it again since I'm 20 now.
Im a pool player, not a bowler, so I dont know much about this. However, I did see one video where they did say string pins are cheaper to install, require less maintenance, and the maintenance itself cheaper, easier, faster, and safer. Obviously, these are preferable traits for the bowling alley. Obviously, I can understand that the strings do change the behavior of the pins and that is an issue with traditional bowlers. There are many comments and upvotes from people saying if their bowling alley switches to strings, they will quit. I can understand that. However, do bowling leagues and/or serious bowlers have enough financial sway to actually make a difference in a decision by a bowling alley to switch? If you all quit, would they alley even notice or care?
The pinfall there looked pretty good actually, albeit a small sample size.
Got em with the ole slanted lane trick! Well played..
We have 2 centers in our town, I can see the one getting stringpins, and all the casual bowlers will go there. And the few leagues they still have will probably go to the other house which will never install them.
The negative part of string pin setters is that makes bowling strikes harder to hit. The positive part is that enables any bowling alley to offer different types of bowling in the same place. The bigger modification will be the adjustment of ball returns. So everyone can enjoy ten pin, duck pin, five pin, and candlepin bowling in special universal lanes at low cost. Arthritis guys like me can practice the smaller ball bowlings without the risk of injuries of the most popular ten pin bowling.
Packy, Ryan, winning make me feel good too! Not sure if anyone asked this yet, but was wondering about the weight of pins used with strings was different than no strings? Not a fan of string pins, like watching a punch judy puppet show .
String pins are good for practice and birthday parties, but not for USBC sanctioned leagues and tournaments... and DEFINITELY NOT for PBA tournaments
They're not even good for that.
They're good on little toys that parents buy their kids for completely unsanctioned play at home.
They do not belong anywhere else, except maybe in a bar or arcade, where there's NO sanctioned play permitted.
Once the strings go on... it's a GAME, not a sport.
get with the times boomer
Correct me if I'm wrong but I think that it's now USBC legal.
I haven't bowled with string pins yet, but I just watched my cousin bowl at a place with them for college (can't believe that was allowed). Pins were going down because of the strings a bunch. When there was a late fall, you had to either start inputting all of your scores manually or reboot those lanes and get everyone to another somewhere else. Just seems very counter-intuitive. At least I got a laugh out of seeing all the pins juggling around back there
Hey guys. Can you show the string pin setter in action? I am curious to see how certified string machines rack the pins and lay down for spares. 1 full game from start to finish, unedited would be cool.
Don’t do it, Packy, don’t you do it. String pins are the worst. The only positive is for the center until all of the bowlers leave for a real bowling experience.
So.....did you actually watch the video?
@@agoo7581 I did. Thanks for asking.
No he didn't watch with an open mind was the problem. Dude already has his mind made up no matter what anyone says.
They aren't that bad
@@nunyabisness4300you didn't
Oh, I like the freefalls better but the string pins don’t seem too bad
No it's a horrible idea, rhats what family fun centers are for, just wait for you to hit a perfect pocket and almost getting a strick but there is one string pin that keeps the pin from falling over, you will be scared😢
@@Enthusiastically460 Go play 9 pins please.
Here in Canada, 5 pin bowling has been on strings for years. Very few bowling alleys have free fall 5 pin. Nothing wrong with strings but sometimes you get a tangle. We have some lanes with pinsetters that are convertible to both 5 and 10 pin games. Maybe we can bring 5 pin bowling to the United States...
So you going to be sticking to bowling at Northrock or do you plan on staying here at all?
This is the first I've seen where pinfall looks acceptable. If this is the proper certified version, I am no longer 100% against it.
I'll take the background noise of a Brunswick A-2 Pinsetter over the not so silent string - pin Pinsetter. Packy there not silent🧐🧐
In just 20 frames, I counted 12 hits that were affected by the strings. USBC is claiming only a small difference in the overall scoring... while at the same ignoring exactly what Packy said... which is that scoring pace might not change a lot, but the way the pins fall will be forever changed. And that will have a major impact on the sport, even if the average score doesn't change much.
I mean, it's still a game of where you need to bowl well, and it's still a game of the best bowler wins, right?
@@marwels23 If you change the definition of what the best bowler is, then sure. The best bowler right now is the guy who can knock down the most pins with no outside interference. Add string to the mix, and eventually players are going to figure out how to best abuse the strings to positively affect their scores. At that point the sport of bowling is forever changed. For it's entire existence it's been about knocking down pins with a ball. Which strings it's about knocking down pins with a ball and the strings.
@@marwels23 Not the same if pins are attach to something and I already found evidences of the bad things on Strings which made me wanna question USBC about their research because it wasn't enough.
@@deadpolymers3416you could say the same when they started to change wooden lanes for synthetic ones, when they introduced oil patterns and when balls turned from wood to rubber to urethane to reactive. Its an evolving sport and strings are economically a no brainer for a lot of centers
@@Jabberwork. there's no strings on the lanes is the difference
I've bowled on strings too many times, I sometimes get a strike even tho a pin was standing as another pins string hit the other string and made it so loose that the pinsetter thought that the pin had fallen
String pins remind me of the mini bowling you see at arcades
It's literally the same thing as arcade games with longer lanes and $300 balls. Of course, don't expect that part to change any time soon. The industry is fine with that, as are the Pros who are on the take endorsing them while gaslighting you into accepting string pins.
exactly.
If you actually watched the video, you would see that it is not the case here
@@binaryanticommunist1882I bet you are a conspiracy guy
@@agoo7581 I watched it beginning to end. What's not the case?
Slightly off topic, but I distictly remember the current two handed "no finger" style was what we were started on till we got big enough to "graduate" to finger holes. So, a lot has changed. Back on topic, string pins strike me as toylike compared to free fall.
the thing about string pins is an adequate amount of slack allows the same messengers and no weird string twister pins to occur, but too much slack leads to tangles. this goldilocks zone needs to be realized so that string pin can become an adequate form of bowling for competition. Right now there are far too many variables and I feel like we're head straight for the dark ages of bowling if it keeps up, free fall will always be better imo.
sadly unless somehow someone can come up with making freefalls cheaper and easier to maintain this will be the norm
The best school in the world when it comes to collegiate bowling installed string pins. We are doomed.
"Come to Wichita & Get Your Degree in Fake Bowling!"
Best school in the country for bowling and they are switching to the changing times. Nobody is doomed except for the old time bowlers that dont know how to adapt and bitch and complain about shit out of their control.
@@OldManGroucH It was implied by the title that the center was ruined. Since I am an old timer, I am highly-subjective to suggestion. I blame new media for that.
@@OldManGroucH How does one adapt to carnival games? lol. Seems like Big Bowling doesn't want the competitive nature of the game anymore. They're doing everything in their power to discourage it. All they want is to charge between $30-$50 per hour for normies to come in, get drunk on $15 cocktails and roll house balls at string pins, in the dark, with laser lights flashing and loud music blaring. Soon they'll have those tickets spewing out of the ball return similar to arcades if you bowl over 150; redeem the tickets for a big teddy bear, or a free Mai Tai drink. Please explain in detail how any of this cultivates a new generation of highly skilled/motivated PBA bowlers.
@@OldManGroucH there's complaining about shit out of my control like 2 handed bowlers or urethane and there's things that fundamentally change how pins work. So when they need to remove them in 2 years because they can't even be consistent between different string centers, I guess I'll know it's totally my fault.
I started on string pin and play on both. I would say that the string pin can knock down an extra pin with a lot of ball reaction. But it also registers different. So the ball can move it will count as not fallen down when in other lanes it can count as a strike. I have a 5 point average in string pin despite that being where I practice. I don't think there is much difference. And I think cost is going to be the long term factor
I'm just starting the video so this may be addressed. What I think is important is how the strings are set up. They can definitely be the cause of some strange pin action. But I'm certain most of the centers that are using them aren't taking the time or care to minimize that. I know USBC did a study, but are there any recommendations anyone can actually follow at this point?
We're beyond recommendations at this point...the USBC has already defined a set of standardized specifications for string machines if a center intends to use them for sanctioned competition ... cable length, the dimensions of the pit, distance to the back screen, among other things.
Now we need you and mitch to do a split challenge with string pins.
My guy Chris Barnes won his triple crown using the World Beater against Bill O’Neill. Awesome show lol
Where I bowl in the UK we now have pins on strings and we have found that we get far less strikes than we used to get and definitely more splits. The overall opinion from us all is that we do not like it as much even though it is cheaper and easier for Bowling Alleys to have them.
My bowling center just went to string pins. Here is my assessment as a 155 average league bowler. First, the time to reset the pins is much faster. Second, there were no instances where the pin setters got stuck or dropped pins. As a result, the bowling experience is a little friendlier. Waiting for somebody to run down and reset a pin was no fun. I have not seen instances where the strings dramatically interfered with other pins. My average on the strings is about the same as free fall after 12 games in 4 sessions. Overall, I have been pretty happy with them and I know the guys that run the bowling center are a lot happier. Like it or not, string pins are here to stay and that is not going to change. So we just have to get used to it if we are going to keep bowling.
Exactly stuff changes like bowling changes just like when reactive bowling balls and synthetic lanes were introduced but that’s part of bowling and we just have to adjust and get used to string pins.
Real question.. will string pins make the gap between two and one handers smaller ??
I would say yes, power is less important
it would be very interesting to see some close-up, slo-mo pin action comparing similar shots on both pinsetters@@TheHouseBowling
The background noise you are talking about sounds very similar to what is heard when bowling on Brunswick A or A2 machines. I have heard it more on the A's than on A2's.
Ryan definitely has Dad's swagger and eye intensity. I remember seeing him and Troy when they were little kids (like 5 or 6) occasionally at classes Sunday mornings in Lewisville, was always a blast with them (plus got some great tips from Mom and Dad :P).
String pins would be cool in a couple of lanes as a sort of "practice lane" for good bowlers. Maybe a few more for the birthday party crowd but the actual comp lanes need the pinsetters.
If my center gets strings, i will sell every piece of equipment i have. They're solving a problem that doesn't exist while creating a dozen more. They better not be sanctioned.
Whole-hearted agreement on this end. This is going to make people hate bowling in any sort of pro or league manner. -100/10 will never bowl again.
@@Rose_and_Wolf_Designs No sane person would bowl for money on these.
They already are sanctioned...USBC announced it a couple of months ago. Albeit in its own separate category, so anyone stuck bowling league on these abominations will have a separate "string pin average"... but it's already as "official" as it gets.
nobody will miss yall
4:42 For me, this shot is the perfect summary of string vs. free. I’m not a huge fan of string, but it could work based on the decreased maintenance needs. Bowlers are gonna need to THROW. BETTER. SHOTS. on the whole, though, because trips and messengers are just not gonna be there to have your back as often.
Before I say no I'd like to try them I've been bowling for a long time. Unfortunately this won't help league because to many will just say no its not real bowling. Open bowling probably will stay the same
So I just want to add my 2 cents here. I own a 10 lane string pin alley and have a good friend who owns an alley with a traditional system. The fact is maintenance and mechanical issues are a fraction of what my good friend needs to deal with frequently (and yes he takes care of his machines). My consumer is the general public and I’m in this business to make money. Not hear amateur and “professionals” complain 😂
While string pins will never be a 1 to 1 replication of free fall bowling, I think at this point there has to be some give and take. If string pin bowling lanes help keep bowling centers open and let's them get a bit more profit, then I'm all for it. Unfortunately I've seen a couple of centers close around me and there haven't been any new bowling-specific centers built where I'm at in some time (I don't think any have been built in my lifetime). Maybe this will encourage people to see that the cost of entry to build a bowling center be a bit more feasible and have them start opening more of them instead of seeing them close down. The last thing I want to see happen is to have bowling die off and fade into obscurity. I love watching it and coaching it.
No... If string pin lanes are the only thing that 'saves' a bowling center from closing... then let the damn thing close.
Bowling centers close when one of two things happen.
1.) The ownership doesn't manage their business properly.
2.) The public in that area loses interest in bowling.
The USBC, and its predecessor, the ABC, mismanaged the success of league bowling for years, and served the needs of league bowlers less faithfully, year after year, until you got to a point, where over 50 percent of league bowlers now, bowl in unsanctioned leagues.
They decided the money paid to the USBC was money up a piggy's butt, and said "Screw this... we'll do it ourselves! We don't need them or their BS!".
Now? The USBC is struggling mightily to reverse the trend, and they've got nothing to offer.
They're so focused on getting bowling into the olympics (which more and more, are irrelevant, because your average member of the public couldn't give a damn less about the olympics!), that they've let their league and tournament bowling suffer immensely.
The chickens are coming home to roost on the USBC, and the best part is... they're the ones loading the revolver with all six rounds, pointing it at their head, and then wondering why they have a new hole in the head when they pull the trigger. They're doing it to themselves!
And bowling proprietors are LETTING them do it!
So are the manufacturers!!
Get your popcorn and get ready for a show... because I think you're watching bowling's total collapse in slow, painful progress.
@@gwencrawford737I can 100% see how this option can allow a struggling center to stay open. If they are on the verge of closing because they can't spend the $500K to install new pin setters and have trouble with a good mechanic this is a viable option. It's still an expensive install! Taking away a $40-60k salary a year is a huge thing to help a center stay alive.
The GP doesn't understand how expensive every bit of bowling is to keep up and maintain. Scoring is SUPER expensive and lots of centers need upgrades in that department. Pins are very pricey. Also lots of centers are running into quite aged synthetic lanes...not to mention they have pin setters from the 60s.
Lanes are 250k (for a 16-18 lane center)
Scoring is 100-200k
Strings are gonna be 300k
Free fall is double or more over strings
New oiling machine 35k
Yet league bowlers show up each week and sneak food into the centers and complain about everything they can find. Food too high, beer is too high, bowling too high, house changed the pattern...center employees hate working league nights because they get fussed at all night about nonsense... Not to mention bartenders make the least in tips on league nights.
I seen a few pins getting pulled in a different direction from the strings!!
I feel splits would be easier to pick up for sure!!!
Tested at the itrc and my free fall the second day I averaged 240 and 232 string pin so I’d say that’s accurate
I also was throwing nuts the 2 free fall games
Would love to see a video of certified vs non-certified string pins and see the comparison. Pin action and overall scoring differences.
Okay for training purposes... otherwise, not doing it. One center near my home went string-pin a few months ago and I have yet to visit. There is one other mom/pop place nearby but mostly I drive about 40 minutes to the best bowling center in the area. And from what I hear, they are not making the switch. The place that did, I heard they barely oil. I think they just want to host kids parties and get bowlers who just play for kicks and don't have their own bowling balls. Too bad.
That’s why I think it’s perfect for this center, training center only they don’t have leagues or tournaments!
I've wondered if magnetic pin tops wouldn't be a better alternative to finding an easier way to do pinsetting without something interfering. Obviously you'd have to make sure both the overall weight and weight distribution across the pin would have to be maintained.
There was a pinsetter that used a magnet in the head of the pin. The machines were made by Mendes. There are a few youtube videos about them.
Thank you! @@lightingnut
I mean, I can totally get why some alleys would opt for this. I knew someone who worked at an alley that shut down, and a major reason why Bowling alleys struggle is because the mechanisms that set up the pins are so complex and a nightmare of maintenance costs, they had to shut down half the isles because of how tight their budget was. Something like string pins does levy some of that. Obviously, it has some downsides, but I think overall, it's worth it in the long run for them. You dont see many bowling alleys these days.
I bowl on strings in the UK and am not a fan but it is what it is.
Last week in my third game I managed to leave 5 splits but converted 3 so splits are definitely still part of the game.
Tested some in one of our test centers.... Cheap, easy to work on, spare parts are next to nothing to have in inventory.....and I still hated them. I picked up more splits than I ever had in my life and got those splits off some pretty nasty pocket robs. Needless to say, I rolled 50 games on strings and couldn't hit my avg by 10 pins. Sadly, big centers aren't getting the profit from bowling alone and many are converting to that "social bowling" center...and they are using string pins to make the profit margins much higher to stay in business. I work on GSX and those are 40k a pop and we carry 20k in spare parts. Our string centers are half the cost of the pinsetter and carry 1k or less in spare parts, and you can hire straight out of a fast food window and put them behind these things to work on if they can tie a knot.
But the key is how long will it take to start making a profit after paying to replace the pinsetters with string machines.
How many total pins are part of the pin setter supply vs how many pins are available to set with strings? I'm guessing 20+ for a normal lane and only 10 for a string lane? Not that has an impact as relevant as the strings.
I think two things can be true at the same time when it comes to string pins vs. true free fall pins:
1) I personally don't like the idea of string pin setters becoming a "norm" for competitive or league bowling. I don't feel that it is good for the sport, the physics of the pinfall feels off, and I can't help but feel it cheapens the sport somehow. That said, I must admit that I haven't yet personally bowled on string setters so take what I say with a grain of salt
2) I recognize that in the specific case of the WSU Rhatigan Center, with an ever-rotating staff of mostly untrained college students, string setters can be appealing. The student-employees, usually, are not experienced working in bowling centers and their machinery, and string pin setters can make more sense. Especially when considering the costs of training and paying a mechanic, personnel safety, the insurance premiums, and simply the amount of time a manager would have to spend training new staff almost every year (if not even more frequently), I begrudgingly can admit that I understand WHY the Rhatigan Center would do this; and why this can be a more economical and easier option for more casual bowling centers..
Still, I will miss the late-night practice sessions at the RSC where the only sounds were you and the A2 pinsetter machine buzzing and clattering away in the background lol
just based on the few frames I saw, String Pins should not have been sanctioned for league use at all. Centers should instead have been made aware that using string machines will cost them USBC sanctioning. You said it and it was shown that "Pin Action" is significantly decreased with the strings. There are no messengers, fewer trips. The game is completely changed. All i see this creating is large companies like Bowlero and other corporate centers taking the cop out for their machines instead of repairing them. They already charge an arm and a leg for everything and this for them will be an easy way to shave off expenses to make more money over the long run. That's what big corporations do, reduce everything to figures. If they can make more money over time with this system and not worry about losing business over leagues and sanctioning then they will of course go this route, no questions asked. Already see those things with Bowlero after they took over the local houses
I hear that the reason so many are switching to string pins is cost and safety. While string pins changes the game and the angles of hitting a little bit, it really simplifies the mechanism mechanically. I hear the older free fall pinsetters have over 1000 moving parts, and in the string pin machines, this has been reduced to about 70. The old freefall machines were very heavy, were spring loaded, and were very dangerous to work on. They also required an employee on site if they jammed that was specially trained.
Finaly someone that has brains.
That's why i don't go the bowling center, i go the bowling alley where they don't have string pins but they do have cheap beer and you can smoke inside.
People are so terrified of change, but do not realize that some things have to change to stay alive. My home bowling center has tons of issues with their free fall setters. Half of the lanes black out every 5 to 7 frames and they only have one mechanic so it takes around 10 minutes to get it fixed. Change is a great teacher. If anybody wants to be a good bowler, they must adapt to whatever is thrown their way.
So your home lanes suck balls so everyone should move to a worse set up? Gtfoh
This is the change that shouldn't be accepted. I bet your local center is poorly maintained which is why they're breaking every time. I've been there because I bowled in 2 centers just like that but I don't blame the manufacturers, I blame the management and mechanics for not taking care of them properly. StringPins isn't saving the sport, it only boosts the number of casual bowlers for more greedy money while the Competitive Bowlers would leave and the Pinsetter Mechanics are left unemployed.
Same with our center. The machines were old and tired, often breaking down during league play. During regular bowling hours there were always a couple lanes down and out of service. The cost difference to install pin strings versus new free fall machines is substantial for a small business. Our center has had no mechanical issues with the pin strings since installing them.
You want these bowling centers to really be able to save money? Just go to video bowling. Take away the lanes and the pins completely. You go to your bowling center, you sit down at a nice console, with a drink holder right at your elbow. Then you use your controller to aim your ball, hit the button, and WHAM! A nice loud sound and the pins fly on screen, with some cool cartoon effects. You think this is ridiculous? No, it's change. Why throw real balls to hit real pins that needs to be reset when it can all be done video arcade style, at 1/10 the cost? Yeah, change is a great teacher alright. Video bowling even takes away the disparity between us regular bowlers and the top PBA pros. We can all aveage 260+, and have a great time.
This is funny my centre literally closed yesterday to start installing strings
Better find a new alley
@@itskyyuuuu ours was the only one left next closest normal place it 2 hrs.
Good luck with league bowlers staying
My condolences...
I may be aging myself , but over forty years ago I was at an arcade and there used to be a tabletop game, the used a hockey puck to knock down a set of pins at an arcade, and the pins were reset by strings.
Who knew that the regular bowling alleys would use this tech now
do these string pin pinsetters meet USBC sanction certifications?
Instead of being ruined, why not try to improve it?
I almost recently heard about this and while I didn’t actually played bowling on an ally that has that machine, it seems like a next big step.
Also, when I said why not try to improve it, I mean make all of those strings longer and more loosen after setting up those pins. That way it will have more freedom and it will be the same like playing a real bowling, compared to if the string gets too tightened. Its problem would generally be, if the strings are too tight, while too loosen is also a problem.
Also, before this machine or so, I have also seen a machine but a toy targeted to kids that automatically sets pins (containing 6 pins total) but without using strings. Not sure how to exactly explain but the pins from this toy are actually attached to its celling by somewhat of a cylinder and if they get knocked down then the pins raises up. That toy is called “Arcade Alley Bowlercade”.
If it gets into a problem like strings getting tangled, then that’s when staffs or employees would need to fix them.
I played bowling for several years and know how those pins get knocked down or the machine works
They create the hung 10…when the the 10 goes because the string wraps around its neck and pulls it down. No more really cool bird dogs and messengers…as he notes.
The last minute of this video is why comparing average scores between strings and free fall misses the point. It's obviously a different game. It doesn't matter that the differences that negatively impact scoring are well-balanced against those that positively impact scoring. It's a different game. If your favorite golf course doubled the diameter of the holes, but placed random spikes on the green to deflect and obstruct the ball, scores might end up being pretty similar, but no one would cite that to justify those changes.
Using full game scores only in the study is flawed. All that does is allow for multiple differences to cancel each other out. Like when I was in college and with a very basic classroom set up, measured the speed of light to within 0.0001%. Not because I had so little errors. But because my multiple large errors happened to be on either side and resulted in a crazy close number.
String pins....not a fan. Never bowled with them (other than at an amusement park). Sure they save money, but changes the game too much in my opinion.
Maybe I just need to try them?
trick question, string pins ruin every bowling center
I feel like old school or any place that really have TRUE LEAGUES WON'T AFFORD TO LOSS MONEY. IF YOU REALLY THINK ABOUT IT, now main even an some place like them yeah why wouldn't day lol
Agree
Agreed. I bowled on strings once and it was the worst bowling experience I ever had. Never again.
I dont even like plastic lanes, how the f can I tolerate strings on pins?????
@@davidmedrano7755 huh?
Have you ever tried a handled ball? I hear they are hard to get used to. What are your thoughts?
I'm curious, how many 300 / 800 games have been shot on strings, how much harder it is to do it
In a league I am now substituting and they use string pins , I noticed right away all the high handicaps. 48-52-55-59 46. .Not the 19-20-25's I am use to seeing. People with 213 on real pins and after 7 weeks they are at 165. I will most likely drop 2-3 teams at this alley. I will just drive 25 miles for occasional bowling at a real alley . I am at 185 last 18 games one league, 189 for last 12 games and 198 for last 15 games with a 280 and a 667 series. Then I go to strings bowl a 174 to qualify in league, people say, wow you're bowling good. Thursday night I had a 455. and game I was in pocket 9 times and left single pin nine times. NO carry. Strings knocking down pins when there were no pins near them, just stupid string
I have bowled on lanes that have strings and for me every other throw the pins will get tangled and the machine has to be fixed
I can’t believe that Wichita State, with its world class college bowling program, switched to strings! My college, with a team nobody knows about, and a games area that is basically just a party center, has beautiful new Quibica free fall setters. They are difficult to maintain with a part time, student team of workers but we do our best.
See but there lies the problem that people fail to understand. You said it yourself, difficult to maintain. Why would any business want a product that minimal amount of people in the center would be able to fix unless you are a certified mechanic. These machines make it so any person who knows how to press a button can fix the machine.
@@OldManGroucH They're not fixing anything, they're just covering for lack of maint.
@@shaunmcisaac782 but that is fixing it. If I build a better machine that doesn't require the typical maintenance of the original product, and i don't have to hire someone with a mechanical degree to conduct maintenance on the machine, why wouldn't I want the new machine? Why continue to hurt your business further? Stubbornness? Inability to adapt?
There is only ONE reason to switch to string pins, and that is that string pins are cheaper to operate and maintain. Bowling centers switch to string pins for survival. No real bowler wants this. But many centers now cater just to kids and party bowlers who yell and scream as they bowl and spill beer on the lanes under cosmic bowl light. Those are their real customers. Guys and gals with the house shoes and throwing plastic house balls don't know or care about oil patterns, pin carry, or any of those things. They just wanna have fun, and the bowling center owners just want to make money. So, anyone who wants to bowl well and improve their games would probably hate string pins. But the owners don't care. They just want money.
You should interview all the pros what they think about stringpins
Is the PBA Tour good with going to strings ?
Good thing that every bowling alley near me has Free Fall pins. I played at a place with string pins and it was terrible. The pins kept getting tangled and the pin reaction felt wrong. It might be fine for little kids or people just wanting to have fun but for any serious bowler, I would avoid it at all costs.
Good luck playing in a competition then if you are such a serious bowler.
i could see them for casual bowling for an occasional night out but not for league bowlers.
I bowled very low scores today 96, 121, 124, 151 on strings and its hard. I would love to see professionals try it in a tournament. You could call it :PBA String Pin Open
So you have not watched this video i guess.
for those who don't like the string machines...BUY OUT the center and install Freefall Pinsetters/Pinspotters
To answer your question - yes
Let me tell you, these machines are a pain to work on too. The alley I work at converted about a year ago and I hate everything about the string setters.
cap
Pretty soon they’ll put in continuous bumpers in the gutters
String pins definitely affect pin fall. They should never be used for anything except recreational games
Do you think string pins will be used later in pba events since they legalized it or used for trick shot events?
Eventually yes, when Bowlero widely adopts them to save money for their centers. Bowlero owns the PBA and they will most definitely have stops at those centers.